 Okay, welcome back and we'll move ahead with the topic on stages of counselling process. If you are following through the notes, I'm on page 23 and we're, sorry, page 22 and we're getting into what is the structure of counselling. So like anything that we do, counselling is also a process that has a specific framework of a particular structure and it's generally a guide that the counsellor uses and it's not something that you rigidly need to follow it as what it is, okay, but it generally gives you a reference point even as you are practicing counselling. So the structural model of counselling that I have taken helps to look at a certain issue in three components. All because you see a stage one, stage two, stage three, it doesn't mean that once you're completely done with stage one is only that you go to stage two and then stage three, you may go to stage one and then you find you've come to stage two, some new issue may come up, you go back to stage one, you go to stage two, stage three in one issue, then come back to stage one. So it's just generally for us like a framework to understand. Now within each of these stages that you see, there are a lot of skills that you need to use and this is what we shall consider after we finish this, okay, so they go hand in hand and once I've completed both this, I will show you in a bigger framework as to how they work one to another. So it gives you a better idea as to how a process of counselling takes place. So these stages helps you to lead your counselling from one to another, okay. So as we looked at the first stage, we said it is an exploratory phase or it's called exploration. So when you look at this stage of exploration, it basically has the, this is the beginning of your counselling, your period of counselling. Now if you remember we said about it's important in the relationship between a counsellor and counsellor that we call a therapeutic relationship, it's important to build a rapport, it's important to build a connection. Now this happens throughout the stage of your counselling but generally, I've always seen that the first 10, 15 minutes of your session with a person and the last 10, 15 minutes often are the most important, okay. The first 10, 15 minutes is because you're making yourself available to the counsellor where you are showing that you're interested in them, that you care, you want to build hope, you want to encourage them to open up, all right. So that's extremely important and the last 10 minutes is important because you are continuing to instill that hope, they should go back feeling or sensing that there is hope enough, right. So going back to the stage one, like I said, is the beginning phase of it when counsellors are really helped to explore their problems so that they have a better understanding, not just of the problem, remember it's not only the problem but how they process the problem. So they're having a better understanding of who they are, how they contribute to the problem and what the general issue is, okay. Now when we are exploring, I think you know, you always need to keep in mind this one thing that often when counsellors are sharing an information with you, usually it is in a situation usually, it has another person or other people involved, okay. So don't get into this trap or into this phase of standing alongside with your counsellor and attempting to change the other person, all right, like suppose you have a husband or a wife you're talking to and the wife is all saying everything about the husband. Your responsibility is not to change the husband, that's not your responsibility and neither is your responsibility to change the wife. Your work here is to help her see what in all of this is that which means to her, what does this entire situation mean to her and how is she contributing to the outcome of a solution, how can she contribute to the outcome of a solution, right. So remember our idea is not to say, oh you poor wife, you know, you're a sad thing, I will stand alongside with you and talk about how bad your husband is, it's not going to go anywhere, right. The idea is, because when you're doing that what does the counsellor see, the counsellor sees, okay, I've got my counsellor on my side, they're going to help me, you know, fight my husband, but that's not what you're there for. You're there to be a neutral listener to the situation and refocus on your counselling, helping her see, you know, what are some things in your capacity you can work on to better the situation, that's where we should be going, we shouldn't be going in the pathway of, okay, maybe, you know, you should get your husband help, maybe he needs counselling, maybe he and his mother are bad, that's none of that that we're supposed to be doing, okay. So and as we're doing this exploration, remember not to get caught in that, because often when we are exploring, we are also trying to figure out more of the person who she's complaining about rather than herself and her situation. So she's who's come to you and she's the one who wants help, right. Although she may not be completely aware of that, you are still keeping the focus very clear, you want her to explore her situation and also what is within her that can help you to pick out so that she can work out of the situation. So exploration is not about generally about the other person, well it may come in the conversation, that's fine, but you don't focus greatly on that, okay. So when you're looking through exploration, there are two phases in exploration, okay. The first phase is what we call as the assessment phase and the second phase is what we call as the problem identification phase, we will look at problem identification after this one. So the assessment phase is basically when you're talking to somebody, there needs to be an all-round or a holistic understanding about what is going on with the person you are working with, all right. Like we spoke about in the frame of reference that every person who comes to you has a rich experience of their culture, their upbringing, their background, their family, their social responses, their occupation, there's a rich background of a person which is something it's good to understand and explore. Now that doesn't mean in counseling you're like an interviewer saying, okay tell me about this, tell me about this, this, this, this and you know seem to be so legalistic in your approach that you have completely missed out and responding to the emotional part of the person. Now this is like I said, this is a guide, okay. These 10 basic life areas that you're looking at is as a guide to help you have an all-round understanding of the person who you're talking to, okay. So some of this you may not directly ask but as part of the conversation it can come about like family background, you know. So the first time the person comes to you and they're talking about themselves they're saying, you know, I have a very difficult family life, I've been married for 10 years. So see here you're picking up information, you don't have to ask them but you've picked up okay, he's been married for 10 years that maybe the husband is from another culture, right. So that as she is talking about it you're building a good base in understanding and it's important to understand and she was saying, you know, I have children and we have a big problem with the way that we parent children. So you've understood that there are children over there, right. So these certain areas that I've listed over here are important for us to get a holistic background. Now it really matters what the person is talking to you about. Now let's say they are not bringing an issue with the family, they're only talking about work related issue, right. So it may not be necessary to really know about maybe, you know, maybe their sexual activity, may not be necessary in a case. So it really, you cater it and you work it around in such a way that you find out things that are relevant to them, okay, information that's relevant to them. So these basic life areas are broad categories, it doesn't mean you have to do this with everybody, okay. But sometimes it may be important to understand a few of them much more in detail depending on the kind of issue or the struggle that they're coming from, okay. So some of the things that you would look into is the family background, you will, so when you're looking at family background, there are two things you will need to broadly understand, right. What has, especially, especially when you're working with a marriage to know what the relationship has been in their family of origin. So there are two terms you need to know, family of origin and family of procreation. Family of origin is the original family that is the parents of the children. Family of procreation is the current family that's a husband, wife and that children. So it's important to understand how the relationships have been in the family of origin, you know, what have, what has been the parent and relationship, what have been the relationship between the parents of the child, what's happened as a background, you know, were they all living together as a family, was this person, did they have influences from parental figures or maybe they weren't raised up by parents, they were raised up by grandparents or they were orphans. Now that's a good background to understand, all right. So some of this, because it will help, like especially when you're dealing with things like marriage, to understand how people related in their families, in their original families gives you an understanding of what they're expecting in their current families, okay, because we come from different families and especially when people are coming into marriage, they have very different expectations. Like for example, maybe the husband's family, you know, in his home, whenever there was a conflict, everybody spoke about it, they would sit around the table, talk about it, sort it out. Whereas in the wife's family, whenever there was a problem, no one would talk about it. It's all pushed under the carpet, everything is, you know, very superficial. And when two people from that kind of background come together, their expectations of how a conflict should be resolved is very different. Why? Because their backgrounds are very different, right? So to explore that in itself improves the understanding of the councillor who's sitting in front of you, okay. Next one is the social, emotional background. So you're determining to see what have their social contacts been like, you know, what has been their relationships? How have they navigated relationships? What have been their successes and relationships? How have they failed to handle certain relationships, right? Then the next is coping emotionally. How do they emotionally cope when there are stresses that have happened? What are the strategies that they've used, right? Like for example, someone who's been through emotional trauma, have they been, have they taken into alcohol? Have they taken into smoking? Or have they been, you know, have they moved into a prayer life? Or have they, you know, sometimes they may have wrong coping strategies, maybe they harm themselves or, you know, they go injure themselves or whatever, you know, it's good to understand that, explore that. As you're doing emotional background, it's also to explore major events or traumas that they've gone through. And some of the, I may not be completely inclusive in my, as I'm stating this, but then some of the major events is, was there, you know, how has the home environment been? Has it been a very, very conflictual environment? You know, have there been situations that have been difficult, you know, whether for the deaths in the home, whether people who had major illnesses, was there, was there disciplining that was there done? Other major events to the individual, was there any kind of assault? Was there abuse, any physical abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse? These, these happen to be other major events that take place. Have there been strong situational difficulties, like a loss of a job, maybe, you know, a catastrophe that has happened, like, like a natural disaster that's happened, that's taken away different events, you know, loss of money, financial issues. So these are all major events that take place that can affect a person's social and emotional background. So that's important to understand through the conversation. Okay, next is current family and social relationships, where you're, you're exploring how the counsellor's relationship is within every, every area of their lives, be it their home, their work, their church, friends, or the whole community, that's important. Then to understand of their occupation and academic background, why is this important? Sometimes it's important to know what kind of exposure that they've had, right? Academically, what's the exposure they've had? Because if education definitely gives you a lot more exposure, occupation gives you a lot more, more of exposure. So it basically helps you to look at the socioeconomic status as well of the, of the individual. Then comes finances. So here again, the, now, this may not be something that you may need to explore in every, every person, but nevertheless, it depends on what the issues happen. So what were the problems and pressures around finances? Next is their spiritual life. Now, this, this is something generally, in my experience, especially if they aren't believers, this is not something that I would do immediately. I would wait for a couple of sessions, you know, to really pick up what their basic resources have been and then also explore with them what their spiritual life is or how they understand spirituality. But of course, if it's a believer, this is something that, you know, you can determine. And in fact, they sometimes will bring it up to you. Like for example, they may say, I do experience and I know that I have to be much better in my faith level, but then because of these issues, my relationship with the Lord has suffered. So all that will come. So understanding that is really helpful because that's one of the biggest resources that we can tap into. Next is sexual activity. Now, this is, of course, you have to do this sensitively. And this is maybe not something you will do right in the beginning again. Again, like I said, it depends on the kind of issue that, that a person may come at maybe like someone who come, a couple who comes for counseling or for help. This is an area that you will need to check as to how their sexual intimacy has been and, you know, whether it's been meaningful or have there been, what have been their thoughts or their ideas about sexual activity. So that's, that's another area. Then is recreational leisure. I mean, how do we view this area of life and, you know, what is, what is the importance that they give to that, then their physical health, right? You need to determine this. Remember, I did mention that some of the times when people do come to you, they may be going through significant health struggles, like for example, the mental health condition of depression. It is, it's studied that those who may have certain physical issues like thyroid can have depression, right? Someone with a, with a, with a poor thyroid functioning can have depression. So you ensure that you work through that, get support and get the medical help that they need and then work through the other things. Remember, we spoke about peeling of the onion. You know, we said about clearing up whatever is physical and then getting into the emotional, the rational, the emotional and the spiritual part of it. And lastly, the certain kind of responsibilities that they may have, the routine responsibilities and what are their general areas. So, so this is something that you would, you would need to work through. So here what, what I'm going to do is I'm going to lead you through a certain example. And once we look at this example, we will get into the next phase of exploration, sorry, problem identification. Okay. So let's, let's read this out. We'll, we'll move forward. Yeah, I think there's someone who's requested. Yes, Tavya, go ahead. Yeah, thank you, Matt. I just wanted to ask regarding that exploration of those 10 areas. So if it is, I've seen like here, there, there are like categories like of counseling, maybe like, I think it, it is everywhere, like family counseling, career counseling. There are like lots of categories. So I understand like those 10 basic areas are helpful to understand the person holistically. But if it is like specialized counseling that a person is asking about or asking for, so do we like limit it, limit the, you know, the areas of exploration into, you know, or focus more on certain parts and not on other parts. Like for example, career counseling is something, I think it's very different. So yeah, so how, what is a good recommendation from you, like menopause? Yeah, so, so like I had put forward that it really matters what issue it is that they're coming with. Like if they're coming with let's say a marriage issue, you may need to explore maybe a little bit more because it is a relational issue. That is something with regard to career. It doesn't need too much of personal information, right? It's all maybe, unless of course they are talking about something. So let's say a person who's coming to you for career counseling saying, you know, I'm trying to think about what all I can do, right? If it is that straightforward as that is, you may just need to look at their occupational and their academic background. That's about what they have or maybe something of their recreational activities or leisure or things like that, right? That's about what you need to do or their past occupational background. That's all. But when it comes to something like let's say marriage or let's say a interrelational issue or let's say something with mental health that they come with, you may need to explore a lot more. So it really depends on what they're coming to you for. So these, like I said, they're broad categories that you would explore depending on what seems most relevant to them. So it's not that you have to do all 10 with everyone. But this is, it's an all encompassing view that you have. So if it's career counseling, it's specifically related to that. Unless of course, in the course of conversation, they say something like, you know, I've just noticed that I feel a lack of confidence not just at work or at what I should be doing, but even in my relationships. Now they've added something new. So that's when you go to explore again some, like a new entire set of things, right? So I hope that answers your question. Thank you, ma'am. I think as you say, we go back and forth, right? As we're revealing things, we go back and forth. Yes. So you don't have to waste time doing everything if you feel it isn't relevant. But as in when something else opens up, you can ensure that you do that. Okay. All right, we'll just go through the case study and we'll get into the next part of understanding how do we explore, when we're looking at problem identification, which is the second part of exploration. Okay. So this is Dennis. Dennis is a 19 year old doing his second year of engineering. He was recently found drinking alcohol on college grounds. When confronted about it by a professor, he became extremely argumentative and aggressive and was suspended as a result. Dennis has a history of getting into trouble at college for missing classes, failing to complete assignments and general rudeness to professors. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So a number of professors have reported being concerned about David's help. Sorry. Dennis's help. Sorry. I don't know how David came there. Dennis's health and well-being and have stated that they were sure that they had smelled alcohol on his breath on several different occasions. They also noticed a deterioration in his college work as well as his general demeanor. Dennis was referred to a counselor for his drinking and behavior problem. Dennis has admitted that he has been drinking quite a lot and sometimes by himself to get away from things. Okay. There is one more slide that I will bring up later, but by just reading what you have seen on this slide, what do you think or what do you, from just hearing what you've heard, what do you identify as an issue or as a problem? And I'll go back to one slide ahead if you want to read that again. And okay, let's look at this first part of the slide and identify what the problem is as according to the slide. So I'd like y'all to look at it, read it and tell me what you think could be certain issues. Okay. Anybody? What do you think is Dennis's issue or problem here? Just from the slide that you can see. This slide, it looks like academic background. Maybe because he's a paving and not completing the assignments. Maybe not very clearly. Okay. So on the face of it, you feel that it is an academic issue. He's been failing, not doing well in school. Okay. All right. Anybody else? Yeah, I think someone's put up their hands. Yes, go ahead. Yeah, I think there is a progression here for like he has a history of getting into school. We see like missing his classes, completing assignments, gender forgiveness. So these are some pointers. And yeah, so the alcohol, I think it is expression of all the underlying problems. Yeah. So yeah, that's an argumentative and aggressive, even that are expressions of something underlying lot of hatred. Okay, excellent. Yeah. So what is being, what is, what are some of the manifestations of the problem is that he's found drinking. He's argumentative. He's aggressive. Right. He has a history of getting into trouble for missing classes. Doesn't, is not functional in his regular day to day function. Now this is what is being presented to you, right, in the first hand. Why is this information not sufficient? Why do you think this information is not sufficient enough? Suppose your counselor is going to say, okay, how can we stop you from drinking? And the counselor is going to, you know, maybe you work with, let's say the counselor says, okay, you know, you need to get back to college. Now these are all true things, right? I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong in doing this. But then, however, we are looking at the problem at a very superficial level. We're not getting deeper. If the counselor were to just get this information and say, okay, let's, let's look back at how you can get into college, how you can improve your attendance, how you can do your assignments. So I'm going to, I'm going to recommend that you sit in class extra two hours, the teachers are going to help you. Is that going to solve his problem? Or do you think that there's something a lot more deeper? I think it's a lot more deeper. It's not just about it. Okay. All right. So let's look at the second part of it. And then, then see, okay, so this is an expert here. So look at this slide and see what, what is it that you've got extra? There is like a deterioration that is mentioned. So I feel it's not abrupt. It has not taken place over, it has taken place over a course of time. Okay. Plus an extra information is like he has been drinking quite a lot and sometimes by himself to get away from things. So to get away from what things is a question. Excellent. So he's given you a clue that one, this is not a one off issue, that this has been something that's been going on for some point of time, so much so that this going on for so much of time has affected his general functioning in college, his behavior. And that's why he was a refer to a counselor for his drinking problem, drinking and behavior problem, it says, right? And that he's admitted that he uses it in order to get away from things. So that's what things, that's your next next thought about what things is he looking at. Okay. So here is it that there's extra revealing. Okay. So life areas reveal that Dennis had difficulty in coping with academics. His father's unreal expectations of him fulfilling his dreams of becoming an engineer. He resented his father for this because he secretly desired to be part of a rock band. David was forced to join an engineering college. He was unable to apply his mind to studies, alcohol became his escape from reality. However, Dennis doesn't see that there is a problem with his drinking and believes that the professors should mind their own business. Okay. Now this is additional that's given to you. Okay. Now from here on, what else are you seeing as issues? Yes, what about the rest other than Jeffy, Divya? What about the rest? Maybe the others also could share? Yeah, I feel there is expectations that he never wanted to be that, but there is an expectation forced on him that pushed him into something that he sees it as a justification for his behavior. So yeah, alcohol became his escape mode for him. He's a coping mechanism for him. And what you see is Dennis's response in this one. He doesn't want help. So he doesn't think it's a problem, right? Right. Okay. So you have come to a person who's come to you who doesn't think he has a problem. All right. Now, you know, when people who, so when a person who's coming to you and say, I don't have a problem, I'm okay with my drinking, you should mind your business, and the professors also should mind your business. Where do you go from here when that happens? What are your thoughts? That's a deadlock. Okay. Yeah. So this is a place where often you will find people in, right? And sometimes they're not, in fact, you will find people who are very poor inside about what they're doing in the problem. That is, I'm not the problem here, but my, the other person is a problem. That's what I said. So never get into the trap of focusing on the fact that you're standing with his dad right now and saying, oh poor Dennis, you know, dad's done this all to you and that's why you're drinking, right? But you're helping Dennis in this place, you're going to help Dennis to really relook at his situation. Okay. So let's, let's, and I'm going to open this out to you. What kind of a question do you think you can ask? I know we're going a little bit outside of the exploration, but I think it's helpful to understand this because it's a good moment. What kind of a question would you want to ask Dennis that will help him to really think about whether there's something he needs to do about this or not? Maybe, like, what can be, what, what, what would this get you into or just make him think of the, like, outcome of this over a period of time? Is it helping you in any way? Okay. Is, is this helping you in any way? Okay, Jafina? Yeah, I think he's been interested in the blockchain right? So we can just ask him like, how these things are helping you towards the dreams that you have got in this life, maybe something like that. Okay, that's good. So you're basically looking at the resources or so, so look at this. Now, and I think Jafina's answer is, is pretty, you know, accurate in the way you want to approach something. Now, if you look at Dennis, everyone is focusing on his negative behavior, his drinking, his aggression, his missing college, his rudeness, everyone is focusing on that. Now, if you would want to get Dennis into a place of thinking, be attracted to what he's attracted to. I'd say, maybe sing something. Dennis, you know, that's, that's, that's wonderful. I just see that you have such a passion to become, to be something in the rock band, right? Could you tell me more about that? Or if tomorrow, this became a reality for you that you got into a rock band, what would it look like for you? So what are you doing? You're creating a different sense of a reality for him, right? Because right now, if I'm, if as a counselor, when he's just doesn't want to talk to me about any of this, he's saying, Hey, I don't have a problem. You're the one, you're the problem, you're talking to me. Then I've got to use something very, very different with him. So, you know, like that's what I said, you know, counseling is maybe there are in step one, step two, step three always, depending of the kind of person that you have, maybe some people you have to focus on their resources. Some people just want to talk about their problem and say, you know, I just want to get out of this, just help me, and they're more than willing to do anything. But it really, it really helps to think critically as to, you know, okay, this is what you said, this is what you like. So I found out one nice thing that he's talked to me about this whole thing. And I want to catch on to that and try and work through that. Okay, so this was just outside of it. And I just wanted to take you through that to really help. So in exploration, what are you doing first and foremost, is you are also beginning to draw out and clarifying his feelings. Now, he said so much over here, right? That if I'm going to again, so that the first part is yes, trying to get the wrong back. The next part that, that you know, that I would go into is this draw out and clarifying problem feelings. Now, what am I doing here is he's told me about how he's so disappointed about, he didn't tell me, but then I've picked it up that his father wants him to do something, right? So I've picked that up and I see, maybe I'll say something like, Dennis, you know, I do understand that it may be very difficult sitting here in front of me, because, you know, I do see that, you know, you feel everyone else has an issue about the way that you're going, but I'm hearing something, you know, and I just feel that you're extremely disappointed that you couldn't, you're not allowed to follow your dream of being in a rock band. So I've done two things here. I have picked about what his feelings are, and I've also picked about the dream, right? So I am drawing out and bringing about the feelings. He's told me nothing about what he feels. He's just probably said, yeah, my dad expects too much of me, you know, and he just wants me to go to college and I hid my dad for it. And yeah, I can't cope with this. So I wanted to do being a rock band. He didn't allow me to do that. So he hasn't said anything about his feelings, but then I am going to pick out, draw out what he's feeling, right? So it may not be disappointing. He said, no, I'm not disappointed. I am solely angry. I want to, I want to bring about the revenge to my father. He may be clarifying those feelings for you, but it's good to come to a place of exploring what he's feeling about his problem. So the problem identification, you're able to identify the problem, but you need to also explore what the feelings are like. So the next one is, you know, I just see that you resent or you're really angry with your dad for forcing you to follow his dream, isn't it? So he says, yeah, I hate my father. I don't want to have anything. So what are you doing? You're actually helping him get in touch with his feelings. Now remember, when people get in touch with his feelings, and I think I told you the last time, it doesn't mean you're agreeing with them. It doesn't mean you're agreeing with the fact that you should continue resenting your father or you should continue working with him. So your approach, your next line is not, you know, that's not the right thing to do. The Bible says you shouldn't be angry with other people. That may not be appropriate at that point of time to do. What you're doing here is you are empathizing. You remember one of the principles? It is you are standing in emotional involvement. You are being controlled in your emotional involvement, yet you're accepting that the person is where they are at. Yeah, I see that it makes you really angry. So this is what we're looking at, problem identification, to be able to bring about and explore the deeper feelings that the person has about the problem. Now I'm just going to go two steps ahead to just help you see how would I respond to a question like this? He says, I hate my dad for forcing me to follow his dream rather than mine. So my next question into action or understanding would be something like, okay, I'm jumping this just so that you know how we progress. I would say something like, okay, Dennis, if you needed to really, if you needed to really fulfill this dream of yours, what were some of the things you would like to do to get your father on board with you? So what am I doing? I have twisted the question in such a way that he's going to think, okay, if I wanted to follow my dream, how would I get help my father to do that? I've twisted the question in such a way that he thinks in that direction. Or I can say something like, okay, if you needed to follow your dream, what should you be doing? The general question is, I don't know what I need to do. I'm lost. But the way that I probably put out my question is saying, if you could tomorrow, you could follow your dream, what are some of the things that you could do to help your father be on board? That also helps the person to think more focusing on their next action. So that's just a part of that. So now once you have identified the problem feeling, that is he feels disappointed, he feels resentment, the next thing that you're going to do is you want to find a certain goal. You want to begin to find how is the person going to deal with the problem that they have? What is the goal of the issue? So once you have an idea about what is his dominant emotion, which we saw in the previous slide is maybe disappointment and resentment, the next task is to explore, is to try and explore and discover what might be the chosen goal. What is that you want to do to work through this? So if you believe you need certain things in order to be those deeper goals of security, of significance and worth, we need to help them to pursue it. And thus that should become the chosen goal. So basically what they're doing is they say, I need something good to help me cope with my disappointment and anger and that good thing is alcohol. So right now his goal is alcohol, that's become the goal that if I take to alcohol as a means of getting over my disappointment, what am I doing? In a way, I am getting what I need. So what you're doing is you are going to help them rework that goal and to see if there is any other goal. So his goal right now is take alcohol, get even with his father because he's not helping him fulfill his dreams and in that way maybe getting the college authorities to finally throw him out of college because in a very deeper way, he's doing something so he can actually be thrown out of college so that he doesn't actually fulfill what his father wants to because he resents his father. So that's becoming the current problem goal. So what you're attempting to do is to get them to a point where they're coming to the place of reworking the goal. The goal here is not alcohol. The goal here is not to get even with the father but you have to help them to rework another goal, which means what is that goal? What is the new goal that you would want to pursue or what would you want to follow? So when you identify, once you are able to figure out the goal, you're identifying the basic beliefs and the strategies that is causing them the problem. So here you found out, earlier you found out the emotion, you found out their goal. Now what are you doing is you're identifying what is the belief that the person has about this and what are the strategies that they're using to get into that goal. So here he may say something like, this is his belief. My father does not love me. He doesn't care about my wishes. Now that's become a goal. I'm sorry, that becomes a belief. He strongly believes that his father has something against him or this becomes a belief. Alcohol will help me get over my pain and disappointment. Now that becomes a belief or a belief of being a rock band singer will make me a person who's fulfilled. So these are certain beliefs that he may be having about this and that's what you are doing when you're identifying the problem. You are looking at the rational part. You're looking at the emotional being. Remember, think of the five areas of functioning. You've looked at the emotional being, what he feels about it. He feels anger, he feels disappointment, he feels resentment. It's coming out of certain beliefs. What are the beliefs? My father does not love me or alcohol is something that can help me forget my disappointment or this is bringing about something, a spiritual belief. My fulfillment, my significance comes from being a rock band singer. So you're beginning to identify much more deeper things as you're entering into that conversation. Now once you have done this, now you are helping your councillor to make the problem his own. Remember I said, right? The problem as he comes in is not seeing it as, he sees it as his father's problem. But now when you have identified this emotion, the belief system that he has, the strategies he's working towards it, these core crucial needs that he has of being fulfilled. Only if he becomes a rock band singer will it become fulfilled. You are making, helping him become more aware of the fact that through all these means, he has a part to play in the problem. So this is a way that you begin them to help them to personalize the problem, take onus for it. They're taking agency for the problem. So when you're looking at it in lines of it, you're probably bringing back the understanding that he's disappointed, that he's not able to follow a certain dream and that he needs something to cope and he's used alcohol as the answer to cope. But he may need something else to cope. So you bought that back to a promising, I am the only one who can change this for myself. So the problem identification works on getting all of this part of it, those errors of functioning and bringing them to a place where they can find ways of how they have contributed to the problem through their thinking, through their belief system and then come bringing them to a place where they are able to personalize the problem. The next step you would do is to encourage the councillor to not just personalize the problem. Now he's owned it, he's saying, okay, maybe I've looked at alcohol because I want to take away my disappointment. Now you're getting them to bring about a goal in order to work it. So you're assisting your councillor to begin to become responsible or have agency, not just for what they're doing, but also to bring about the right goals and behave in a way that is right or that is consistent to the truth. So here, now remember this all happens in conversation where they realize and say, I realize that alcohol is not the solution to take away my anger and disappointment, but working to pursue my dream while I train to be an engineer. So he's probably worked through a goal. Now the goals can be very different for other people, but for Dennis this was a goal that I see that alcohol cannot be the issue. I need to see how I can pursue the dream while I also become an engineer. So this is a new goal. And what is the skill you're doing? The skill of personalizing the problem and the goal together is allowing the councillor to be aware of their contribution to the problem and to make them assume that responsibility that they can change the problem into a solution goal. So that's where they are able to find out. So the goal is generally doing something opposite of the problem and that's why you're bringing them to realize that they have an involvement in that and that's what you want them to move into. So these certain points, I'll just go back. So if you see you here when you're looking at exploration, when you identify the problem, you are helping them clarify their feelings. You're helping identify what has been their goal-oriented behavior, which is alcohol in this case. Then you're looking back deeper into helping them understand their basic beliefs and revealing what are the strategies that they're using to get these beliefs. Then once they understand this, you're helping them personalize on the problem, take responsibility of the problem and then attaching a new goal with it. So this is what takes place in a problem identification. Any thoughts? Yes, Vidya, go ahead. Yeah, I was just trying to consolidate what you were telling. So is it right if I say we are trying to exploring the emotion behind and the behavior cause for the behavior and then trying to understand the underlying belief system or what they believe. Yes. You know, root cause analysis. In our job, we say root cause analysis. So I was relating to that. It may not be a good analogy, but when we have issues, we do a thorough root cause analysis of it. So then we'll take action how to do it. So then reworking the goal and then the action. So I just want to consolidate. Perfect. That's exactly what it is. Yes, it is. Anyone else has any thoughts, any questions? I'd really appreciate the rest of the class. I know Divya and Jeffina are generally the ones who contribute and who talk, but I'd love to hear from Success, Lubega, Anita, Lyndon, Isaac, Ruby. You know, it'd be nice to have everyone contribute. There's nothing right, wrong. We're all learning. All right. Okay. Yes. So thank you so much. And let's just close with a word of prayer. Would somebody like to just close the prayer? Let's pray. To Heavenly Father, we come under the name of Jesus. We thank you for this day. We thank you for the class that we had. God, we thank you for how beautifully you have created us. And God, I just pray that as we learn more about these things, help us to move in compassion, just like how you did, help us to understand the people more so that we can help them to live a life just like how we want us to live more. Be with us, guide us. As we listen to the class, help us to open our mind and heart and listen and understand and apply it in our lives so that we can be and lead to others, so that we can be a blessing to others. We thank you for Pastor Jean. We thank you for all my classmates. We give you all the glory and praise and Jesus. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you, Jeffina. Thank you, everybody. God bless. We'll meet you next week. God be with you. Thank you.