 Okay, good evening everyone welcome to tonight's common council meeting before we start the meeting We ask our city clerk to read the quote of the week for the week. Thank you Reputation is only a candle of wavering and uncertain flame and easily blown out But it is the light by which the world looks for and finds merit. Thank you madam city clerk president Hannah, would you like to say a few words sir? Thank you very much, mr. Mayor Reverend Martin Luther King Inspired a nation largely through his speeches and I want to share two quotes that have endured the test of time for me both from 1963 The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience But where he stands at time of challenge and controversy The second quote is even more enduring injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere. Thank you, mr. Mayor. Thank you president Hannah Call it 20th a regular meeting of the common council to order. Please call the roll Warren bauk Yesha Hannah here Heidemann Kittleson Cleanness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rinflaich Ryan Smith Vanderwheel excuse for hassled excuse and wongam in 14 present Quarms present Oldman Meyer, which please ladies and pledge of legions. I pledge allegiance to the flag Of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. I'll admire next time on the agenda is approval of the minutes president Hannah Thank You mr. Mayor I move for the approval of the minutes second motion and second to approve minutes under discussion They're being on all in favor say aye. Aye any opposed Motion carries Mayor's appointments attorney McLean Thank you your honor. I hereby submit the following appointments for your consideration city county shared service committee Terry Katzma Gary Maples and Greg Wegeman Appointed 12108 expired 430. Oh nine signed by the mayor I'd ask for a motion to suspend appointment confirmation the rules I should say President Hannah, thank you, mr. Mayor. I would move that we suspend the rules for the confirmation second second to that. Is there any objection? One moment please Thank You mr. Mr. Mayor Again, the question would be is there a meeting that's it would be coming up in the next two weeks They need to suspend appoint these members of the committee right away or is it something I can lie over for two weeks There's a meeting on the 31st that's already on schedule for the city county Sure service committee very good. Thank you very much Any Other objections if there isn't any I need a motion to confirm Thank You mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to confirm Thank you. There's a motion and second to confirm any discussion All in favor say aye. Aye any opposed Motion carries. Thank you Then in the packet there's a letter to the mayor from Susan Hart advising that she's withdrawing her Consideration from the HR position HR director position the motion to accept and file Motion second to accept and file any discussion There being on all in favor say aye Any opposed One opposition Alderman who is that wire? Motion carries Hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Susan Hart to be appointed as director of human resources labor relations commencing January 2208 and expiring January 21 2013 that appointment will be withdrawn pursuant to a request. Thank you. That's it. Thank you attorney McLean Next item on the agenda is a public forum madam city clerk Okay, first on the list is Henry Capitillo Henry can you give me your home address, please? Yes, that is 1619 North 38th Street and that's in the town of Sheboygan Okay, you won't have five minutes sir Okay. Thank you. I Would like to have come here today to talk to you about the increased drug problem in the city Sheboygan and Sheboygan County What I am going to talk to you about is the 2006 community block grant that the city of Sheboygan awarded to home ink For the elevator replacement at the superior manor boarding house I just want to let you know that as of today two years later We have still not received one penny of those contract funds Although we have invoiced the city for forty thousand dollars on two separate occasions the first being in September of 2007 and then again on December of 2007 According to our contract under page two article Five it states home shall be compensated for actual monthly costs incurred under and also under article six requests for payment It states each request for reimbursement shall itemize the actual cost incurred It goes on to say that city agrees to make payment each month within 15 days of receipt of such request Since we were unable to get the reimbursement for the forty thousand dollars Home ink had to take out a loan for forty thousand dollars in order to even get the project underway Since I had a good idea that we were not going to have that we were going to have a problem with our money from the city of Sheboygan because of Of how outspoken I am and coming to these city council meetings I asked representatives from Otis elevator to talk to miss Paul it enters on the invoicing for the project In addition, I asked the bank representative when we were taking out the loan to also talk to miss Paul it enters in order to Make sure that we would not have a problem getting reimbursement for the initial forty thousand dollars Down payment it is my understanding that miss enters told both individuals that we would not have a problem being reimbursed for the project funds I Also have a copy of the invoice That was sent to the city from Otis elevator Which basically says that these costs incurred were engineering costs and ordering of equipment That we paid and which we paid the invoice for forty thousand dollars from the loan that we secured According to the Webster's National Dictionary dictionary the meaning of incurred is as follows incurred incurring to become liable to by one's own action Contract as a debt So I'm pretty sure that when we sign the contract with all Otis elevator to do the Elevator replacement We incurred a debt that debt was For a hundred and forty thousand dollars. We signed that contract with Otis on 51 2007 We pretty much requested the initial fund so that we could get The ball rolling on the replacement of our elevator Since we were unable to get that money again. I said we had to take out the loan Had we known that we were going to have the problems with the city on getting our money We wouldn't have taken out the loan for such a short period of time. We would have made it a long-term loan But what's happened now is that? We're at where we're basically at a stalemate because we definitely need to be reimbursed for the forty thousand dollars If we're not we need to know how long it will be before we can get reimbursed In fact the letter that the last letter that I received from the city basically says On Here it says we are in receipt of your letter dated December 10th 2007 however as stated in a letter that we dated August 22nd 2007 the city Sheboygan will only make progress payments on this project when materials are On-site and can be verified in person Therefore if the down payment expenses at home ink made for the elevator project includes materials for the elevator That have been delivered and can be inspected by me Please let me know if the materials have not arrived on site no payment will be authorized Well according to the contract that basically doesn't say that it says once we incur a cost We will be reimbursed for that cost Doesn't say that we have to have the equipment on site that it has to be inspected before we get paid All we're asking is that the city honor the contract that they have with us and basically saying that Now we do have a loan agreement with the city that basically does say this that We will get progress payments and that we will have to have the city do on-site inspections So those are two separate documents one basically is a grant that we receive from the community block grant money And that has nothing to do with the loan agreement So according to me would you like the additional minutes? Yes According to our contract. I would ask that Somebody look into the situation because basically we've already made two requests We can't be going back and asking for for money and being turned down because what happens is we need to know because we We have a liability that with the bank and we need to let them know when we can pay them back their funds and You know, I have my suspicions of why this is going on but you know, this is not the place to be going into that and all I'm requesting is that the city honor their contract that we get reimbursed for the money and We will We will continue to work with with orders to get things and to make sure that all the necessary paperwork is done by them to make sure that when they start doing the initial installation that they provide the progress reports the The payroll records that are needed for for their portion of it. That's why I asked Mr. Barry went from Otis elevator to basically Department of development. Thank you. Thank you very much Thank you, Mr.. Caviteo for informing the council of the Situation that you're that you have before you I wasn't aware that that's what's happening if you would Please call my office in the morning I will call a meeting with the proper city employees and sit down with you and see how we can straighten this Situation out But I can assure you it has nothing to do with you speaking before us at any point in time in fact I encourage it. Please keep doing it. Thank you Next on the list is Mike van der Steen Mr.. Van der Steen, can you give me your home address, please 320 Lincoln Avenue Also second district supervisor for Sheboygan County good evening council members and mayor When I signed up to speak before you almost two weeks ago. I was hoping to Encourage you to consider a joint HR position with the county This is something that former Alderman Berg and I had brought up several years ago when they were vacancies in One department or the other and we took a quick look at it But nothing much else happened and I hope that more can happen this time around I Was very encouraged to see that several members of this council had drawn up documents To sit down with the county to consider a joint HR department That would be a win-win for both the city and the county and the taxpayers that we all represent I'm here to assure you that county government is open into exploring this matter with you I've talked to Adam Paine and Don Shram and And they all have given me the Expressive feeling that that's something that they feel they really want to look at and come up with something the challenge is going to be to come up with that something that works for everyone and You know, we had gathered some materials Elden head from Brown County and Green Bay They did this previously and understood that he turned this over to the new first district Alderman And I don't know Jim if you still have those in your file or not But they may give us a little bit of a roadmap on how to follow But we also have to be careful because they're not doing it anymore They just continued this activity and we have to find a way to to make it hopefully an ongoing continued activity the last even longer So thank you very much, and I hope you support the documents that are coming before you tonight. Thank you And last would be Jeff Schucho. Mr. Schucho, can I have your home address, please? Yes, certainly 24 11d Camelot Boulevard And you will have five minutes, sir. Thank you Mrs. Richards attorney McLean your honor Council members citizens. I am here before you today actually an honor of my father This has to do and Actually has nothing at all to do with the vast majority of our law enforcement in this community Not only in this community, but in this county Most of these gentlemen I feel are upstanding citizens and patriots and carrying out their duties However as I had previously brought up at a former council meeting There are apparently elements in the police department That are actually sidestepping our constitutional rights under the Second Amendment Officer Williams of the Sheboygan police department. I Will quickly go through this again had engaged in publicly declaring on WHPL that if the police receive a call Concerning someone carrying a gun If if the police department answers that call they will issue a disorderly conduct charge Against the gun carrier even if the gun is carried legally Now this policy is Unenforceable under Wisconsin state statutes as I was informed by our state representative van Akron As far as Wisconsin state statutes call and this is repeated over and over again in the Wisconsin state statutes If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17th 1995 and ordinance a resolution that regulates the sale purchase transfer ownership use keeping possession Bearing Transportation licensing permitting registration of taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm including ammunition and reloader components And the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar to a state statute The ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political Subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18th 1995 Repeated again and again also in Wisconsin state statutes is the phrase That these ordinances or resolution may be the same as or similar to and no more stringent than Now that clearly means that law enforcement has no right to sidestep our state constitution and The reason I brought up my father's My father today and presenting this in memory of him is my job now requires me to travel up and down the lakeshore I am working in a lot of areas where I'm exposed to dogs And we've all heard on the air about the pit bull attacks and by the way you have Quite a population of coyotes that are running throughout our drainage around our drainage ponds now And they're going after the migratory birds. I'm exposed to these dangers on a daily basis My head cannot be on a pivot additionally County officials and city law enforcement have told me that if I carry my gun Unconcealed which by the way there are no state statutes covering whatsoever Anything construed as having to carry your gun with all the bullets out of the magazines the clip has to be out of the gun You can't have around chambered in the gun. This is all unconstitutional This renders that weapon absolutely useless and This is something that they've been keeping from the public is that we the people in this country are the supreme authority The Constitution starts out by saying we the people not we the legislators not we the law enforcement Not we the governors It's we the people The second amendment was made absolute in this regard because they were concerned Primarily with abuses of power of this nature in the future My father who fought in World War two along with many hundreds of thousands of other men Was on Liberty ships and he ended up going on a couple of convoys in the North Atlantic These gentlemen were getting blown out of the water Their ships dropped to the bottom all hands on board lost because of the weather conditions and the fact that they could not break the convoy formations these gentlemen did not fight to do to preserve our Constitutional and our second amendment rights to have them trampled on by law enforcement And I'm afraid this goes to the top in this state Now officer Williams claims that the Chevrogan Police Department is going to start citing people for this sort of thing And I would ask that if he's going to start enforcing this kind of policy Because we're carrying on would you like your additional minute? I'm sorry. I mean just to conclude I would I would suggest that these Disorderly conduct citations for disturbing the peace be sent directly to Governor Doyle Because he is the one that has put us in this situation There are a number of Things in the city ordinances that are in violation of our constitutional right to protect ourselves and bear arms and Apparently since this I've had my nose thumbed up at the request that I made for a public retraction in that regard I'll have to demand that retraction now and demand that it be made on WHBL in the Chevrogan press and in these council chambers on Television and I will what I leave here tonight stop at the desk and pick up papers to file a formal complaint Thank you your honor. Thank you citizens. Thank you That's it Thank you. Thank you all for speaking before the council tonight next item on the agenda is a consent agenda president Hanna Thank You mr. Mayor I moved that all our rows be accepted and placed on file and all our C's be accepted and adopted second motion and second 20-1 point through 20-22 under discussion There being none, please call the roll Born Bowk Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rinflaich Ryan Smith and Wongamann 14 eyes motion carries communications and petitions 2023 and 2024 to be referred Report of officers to 2025 and 2026 lies over 2027 to 2042 To be referred, please make notation on 2031 That will also be referred to Board of Water Utility in addition to finance and public works. Please make that notation Resolutions introduced three 2043 ball by Alderman Gisha and Hannah directing the city of Sheboygan salaries and grievances committee to meet and discuss the possibility Of combining the city human resources department with Sheboygan County's human resources department with the proper Sheboygan County officials Alderman Gisha Thank You your honor. I move that the Resolution be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion Your honor, this is in somewhat in response to To what supervisor van der steen mentioned earlier. This is Hopefully read as everything is on the table in this case and we're hoping to get feedback and good discussion going both ways to Perhaps come to a another opportunity and and in response to supervisor van der steen I I think those that I've spoken to in the city have an equal spirit of Cooperation in entering into these discussions. Thank you President Hennep Thank You mr. Mayor. I wanted to publicly thank supervisor for coming this evening and Being open to us working with so supervisor van der steen. I appreciate him taking time under the schedule. Thank you President Hennep Alderman Smith Thank You your honor. I just have one question. Will this meeting take place publicly where citizens could also attend just to hear the input? All Well All the Gisha Thank You, I would I would defer but I think it was every intention that absolutely. I think that's great And if anybody has any other ideas Certainly the committee. I'm not speaking on behalf of them You surping the authority of far chair, but but I think that's more than welcome Thank You your honor, of course all the meetings will be open the only time it would be a closed session is if we're talking about Wages that sort of thing that falls into the purview of closed. Otherwise, of course open Salary and grievances committee is a standing committee that must post a notice of meetings and open to the public All of them and Smith that you welcome Okay, any other discussion There being none all in favor say aye. Any opposed? motion carries 2044 by all of them van der wheel Kittleson Ryan and Smith authorized in a fireworks display for the orient energy systems conference at South pier near the blue Harbor resort and conference center Alderman Ryan Thank You mr. Mayor. I move for suspension of the rules There's a motion and second to the span. Is there any objection? There is none Please proceed. Thank you Suspension of the rules is due to the fireworks this is for for Orion lighting energy systems Orion lighting wants to do fireworks on January 26th So obviously in order to get this resolution passed. We need to suspend the rules Bartolotta is going to run the fireworks for them They have a five million dollar insurance policy in the city is indemnified in this of any wrongdoing the The reason that we it has to be sponsored by the city the resolution reads So this is why it has to go through in resolution form. So I Move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion Alderman bulk Thank You your honor. I just like to commend Kim Swisher. She's done a great job of organizing this very very quickly She's been communicative the emails been flying and she's been working with the city and with the Company that wants to come and bring their people and spend their money here in the town to make it happen So I just want to recognize her for that Thank You all women play this Thank you. Thank you Just a question is that going to be the same place of 4th of July fireworks would be on the pier Same area All right, let me get you so people can hear you. Okay. No, thank you, mayor Yes, it will be on the on the same pure area that it normally is Orion systems is also paying for fire and police protection for this event. So it's not costing the taxpayers anybody Thank you any other discussion there being none please call roll Boke yes, yeah, Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Manny Meier Montemay or Rinflaich Ryan Smith Wongamon and born 14 eyes motion carries 2045 lies over 2046 through 2049 to be referred Reported to meetings 520 50 By finance recommending filing documents submitting a communication from the Sheboygan boxing club Requesting that the city donate 400 chairs to the club to be used at their events and for use at the club and approve the donation President Hannah, thank you. Mr. Mayor. I'd like to refer this back to finance We have additional information that we need to discuss at the committee. Is there a second to that? There's a motion second to refer back to finance any other discussion There being none all in favor say aye. Any opposed? motion carries 2051 by public works recommending filing documents submitting a communication from the Sheboygan boxing club Requesting the city donate 400 chairs to the club to be used at their events and for use at the club and denying the request Alderman Meyer Thank You runner. I move that the report of committee be put upon its passage Motion a second to accept and the end of the of 2051 under discussion There being none all in favor say aye. Any opposed? motion carries reports of committees 6 2052 by finance Recommend and filing documents submitting a memo from Chief Kirk to Mayor Perez regarding possible uses of the $250,000 in shared services fund that is currently being held by Sheboygan County That was somehow tied to the purchase of land on 23rd Street for the new police department and Stating that he is responding to the mayor's recommendation that he lists the possible ideas for the use of this money be presented and To amend the request to strike number one The new ASS 400 and recommends funding of number two and three of the requests for the mag unit computers And the dive team boat motor and equipment President Hanna. Thank You mr. Mayor Times of the essence on this because we have a February 7th deadline So I would move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted second motion the second to accept and adopt 2052 under discussion Being on please call the roll. Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Smith Wongamon boron and bulk 14 eyes motion carries 2053 by law and licensing recommended denying beverage operators license number 77 22 Based on the applicants failure to cooperate with the committee vice president borne Thank you, your honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion and second under discussion under discussion is lisha sewiki here tonight She's not here your honor. Thank you. Please proceed. Uh, miss sewiki had Two opportunities to appear before the committee won by certified mail And she did not appear and it was unanimous decision to not grant the license because of her Lack of cooperation with the committee very well. Thank you vice president borne any other discussion There is none please call roll Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Smith Wongamon boron bulk and Gisha 14 eyes motion carries report of committees 7 2054 by the mayor's international committee Improving $500 for the people of people exchange committee That requested a contribution for the student exchange trip to st. Petersburg, florida For four students from esslingen germany allerman kittleson Thank you, your honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion and second to accept and adopt under discussion Well, I from what I understand that this is something that we've been doing for a number of years And it's it's sort of a gesture of hospitality that we extend toward our foreign foreign exchange students from essling and Also from japan when the when the the situation arises. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you allman kittleson any further discussion All in gisha Thank you, your honor Perhaps uh, all the person kittleson, uh, could answer. It's my understanding most of those funds come from The works of the committee in raising those funds versus general fund dollars And maybe that would be if you can verify that I would appreciate Thank you allman gisha allerman kittleson. Would you like to uh, thank you your honor? I guess I know that this money has been put aside for several years from from the general fund And that's what we are deferring to to use that We do do fundraising efforts in our committee and those are used as well when our german visitors come here Or our visitors from japan. We do Many things with the with the people that come here as well And so we do use that money, but this money has been there Used for that express purpose. So thanks Thank you Any further discussion There being none, please call the roll heideman kittleson clayunas mani meyer monta meor rindflige ryan smith wongamon boran bauk gisha and hannah 14 eyes motion carries 20 55 by law and licensing recommended denying beverage operators license number 77 37 Based on the applicant's record of violations related to the license activity and the applicant's pattern of repeat law breaking Vice president boran Thank you your honor. I move that the report of the committee be accepted and adopted Motion and second under discussion under discussion is uh, mike grunow here tonight It's not here your honor. Thank you. Please proceed. Mr. Grunow did appear before the committee at our last meeting and after a rather lengthy discussion Based on his violations related to the license and a pattern of repeat law breaking the committee voted unanimously Not to grant the license what we do in many of these cases Is that we recommend that the applicant After a year's time of staying out of trouble come back and Reapply for the license and we'll take another look at it, but at this time we voted not to grant Thank you Any further discussion? There is none. Please call the roll kittleson clayunas manning Meyer montemayor rindfleisch ryan smith wangaman boran bauk yasha hannah and heidemann 14 eyes Motion carries and moving along. We're doing pretty good. It's not may not be a long meeting after all 2056 by public works Recommend and filing resolution authorizing purchasing security cameras systems for placed at charon and kink parks all in my Thank you, your honor. I move that the rc be accepted and adopted Motion and second under discussion Under discussion your honor This has been an ongoing issue getting the cameras at chariden park and some of the other parks that Really really desperately need these cameras But money is also a big issue right now and hopefully in the near future We will have the funds to put cameras in because we really would like to get these out there And I know you're a strong supporter of that old Meyer. Thank you alderman ryan Thank you, mr. Mayer I concur with alderperson mayer on this that these cameras are necessary and when the funding does become available We would like to bring this issue up again and I get these cameras in the parks. Absolutely. Thank you Any other discussion There is none please call the roll Clowness Excuse me mani mayer montemayor rinflash ryan smith wangeman boron balk yasha hannah heidemann and kittleson 14 eyes motion carries Or this is introduced 10 2057 and 2058 To be referred Matters laid over 11 1926 resolution number 18090708 By alderman hannah boron balk yasha and clayunas authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2007 budget Establishing revenue and appropriations for funds received by junior police academy program Donation received for police programs Donations received for fire department EMS standby and appropriation for vacation and sick leave severance and individual cost centers president hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor I moved that the resolution would be put upon its passage second motion and second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll mani Mayer montemayor rinflash ryan smith wangeman boron balk yasha hannah heidemann kittleson and clayunas 14 eyes motion carries 1927 A resolution number 190708 by alderman hannah balk Balk boron yasha and clayunas authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2007 budget Establishing revenue and appropriations for eastern shores library grant funds Received and appropriations for vacation severance from from funds reserved for severance payments Wow, that's a mouthful President hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I moved that the resolution be put upon its passage second motion and second put 1927 upon its passage under discussion There'll be a none. Please call the roll mayer Montemayor rinflash ryan smith wangeman boron balk yasha hannah heidemann kittleson clayunas and mani 14 eyes motion carries 1930 33 general ordinance number 780708 by alderman montemayor Mayer gisha amending for the keller in the year 2008 subsection subsections of general ordinance number 14197 98 which adopted the revised city of shabuagan compensation program for non-represented employees Alderman montemayor Thank you your honor. I moved that the general ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion Vice president borne Thank you your honor This issue is a rather close call for me So I was wondering if Madam chairman or a member of her committee could go over the Back onto this document and how they arrived at these decisions to do these raises Okay, we will ask her in a minute. Thank you president hannah Same question same thank you same question. Okay alderman montemayor Thank you your honor. I think alderman gisha can probably provide the answers to this He worked very hard on this and he does know how to explain it very well Okay, we're going to defer to alderman gisha Can we make sure that make sure the camera's on him now? Now we're in a lot of trouble It taking a page from my fellow first district alderman From an education point that he was always prone to to do in these chambers Our our pay plan for non reps Is a rube goldberg situation it is incredibly complicated. It is incredibly Difficult to follow. I've read it four times myself And I'm sure many of you have read it many times and I still have difficulty figuring it out What it calls for is for a A calculation based on three Factors to determine The merit pay or pardon me the across the board pay increase for our non represented Those are our non union city hall and other places employees Like confidential secretary for the fire chief stuff like that And there's a second component raise for non represented employees and that's called a merit pay raise That according to our current Pay plan is up to three and a half percent per year So our first calculation on the two sections of our Non-represented pay plan comes up to 3.3 percent The second is up to based on how you've performed and And and and been rated by your your supervisor and manager is another up to three and a half percent now The the math that is pretty simple at 6.8 percent raise per year annually and I think And and I welcome anybody else on our committee who has Thoughts and inputs or for a mischaracterizing the committee's temperament on this Please help me, but that that's a significant Raise um and And I I believe it was the temperament of the committee to because of budget constraints to Be not supporting of that so we kind of went back and went to work And I would like to thank uh susan hart and all the department heads for working with this with me on this um This is meant to be a temporary for oh eight only Bridge to get us to a new pay plan Uh, this is my understanding. It should have been discussed in august of last year It didn't come up to us until december of this year And then here's the pay plan that says you must the word must isn't it? So our compromise from the must is this And this gives a 3.3 percent that's that calculation thing based on three factors That's codified in the pay plan And add takes that three up to three and a half percent merit pay bonus raise And removes it as a raise but turns it into a one-time cash payout So that 3.5 percent up to 3.5 doesn't compound over and over and over and over and over and over again Again again again again costing tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars so What this is is is again a stop gap the committee and please anyone the committee correct me the salary grievance committee has committed to To revamping our non rep pay plan. We received some input already from the non reps who were in attendance and from the department heads We would like to do that before april It's going to be a daunting Task we've already telegraphed that it should be more merit based And have a more merit based feel to it. This also Asked our non reps to contribute an additional two percent to their Their health insurance premium. Thank you, which mirrors the current union contract. So Again if anybody else in the committee if i'm mischaracterizing, please Correct me, but again, this is just 408 much like a few years ago where I believe this body Throws wages for the non reps that was just for that year So this is hopefully going to be a bridge to get us there if this was our final pay plan If this was it, I wouldn't support it And I believe this is a I didn't want to put at least my feeling was and I think the committee's feeling was We didn't want to put our non rep employees in a situation come here in december Where it should have been talked about in august and suddenly we're pulling the rug out from underneath And would say no no no it's going to take us till april to figure out how to pay you in 08 I didn't think that was particularly fair They supported this department had supported this and I thought it was a good compromise for the moment to allow the committee to do its work Thank you Thank you your honor Alderman gisha explained it very well And the pay plan for the non reps Is by code that we do have a Code to follow and we're not following me exactly. We're making this compromise. Thank you thank you Alderman about your next thank you your honor. I just have a couple clarification questions one is the 3.3 percent was that arrived at Is that a cost of living adjustment is that How's that arrived at you mean Where the first time it originated Where does why is the number that's been in place that's been in place for for quite a while I I would not know how to answer that question myself Susan Hart is not here But I believe it's it's somehow in some respect reflected what generally considered to be the cost of living Is it is it always 3 3 or is it related to cpi or? I don't know Hold on please. Okay Alderman gisha Thank you, mayor perif. It's It's a um a calculation on three factors one is There's a listing of communities that are that were determined some time ago to be similar to the city of shabuagan And they pull those cities to determine based on wage categories What they're giving non reps and what their unions are getting is And so you take all those and you do an average And then you take the second component which is uh based on the consumer price index for a specific time period of the year It's not a calendar. It's it's like april to april. It's very weird I don't understand why that was there, but that's part of that rube-goldberg situation So you take that number and then the third component is what you currently gave your Represented employees in your union contracts So you have three separate numbers you take all those numbers shove them together divide by three And so yes each year it can change this year it again as as um all the person montemay or mentioned That's in our code So to change it that's why we have to do things like this If we weren't doing something like this and we paid no attention to it It would be a 6.8 percent raise for these non reps. So yes each year can be different Yes, please do hold on hold on. Let me get uh All right Thank you, honor. Okay. Thank you Uh, and then so the committee by april Intends to undo that rube-goldberg scheme and make it more palatable the average shabuaganite So they can understand why their neighbor who works for this city is eligible for a 6.8 percent pay raise Is that what I am to understand by april that will be solved Thank you your honor hopefully alderman bow hopefully This pay plan which is a thick document many pages with lots of components to it was created in 19 Oh, I don't want to say the year because I don't know all the year and it was done by We hired a consultant to do what he took him a long time or the company The consulting firm a long time to put it together And I don't want to say the year 89 or 92. It was a while ago, but it was done by a consulting firm Next we have alderman cleaners Thank you your honor I have two questions. What is contained in the bonus check? Is it just this one time check? Is it a full salary for that salary? Uh, 3.5 added to that one Weeks out two week salary What is in the bonus check whether components of that? Alderman gisha, you want to take a whack at that? Yeah, I'll take a shot. Um It is again, it's up to 3.5 percent. So you might have some employees Who were already? Had their performance evaluations done. They were due by december, I believe so somebody could get 1 percent of their wage so If they make 30 000 dollars 1 percent of 30 000 will be added to that check one time Rather than the three and a half percent compounding over generations So it's 3.5 percent of the yearly wage Not 3.5 percent of the By by monthly wage Okay, second question is, um, why do these employees? All right, why are they eligible for bonuses? Um Union employees, I don't believe are eligible for bonuses. Why are they? Is there some stipulation or ordinance or statute or something? Alderman gisha, I'm up again. Um Because there is no contractual union negotiated package makes them eligible to do different things with their wage and and uh It's the whole point of having non reps is some flexibility And they are in support of this They we have checked with nancy bustlet how it affects The state employee pension fund and etc. etc. And there are no restrictions on doing this. They aren't penalized in any way Uh, they're they're penalized by not getting up to a three and a half percent raise that they would then get compounded year after year after year so Uh I don't know if that answers your question. We can I guess that's the point Okay, we have all vice president borne Thank you your honor I guess the reason i'm having trouble supporting this is that uh The retired people in our community just got a 2.3 percent increase in their social security I don't know of a private sector company in in shabuigan or probably in the state of wisconsin That's getting a that's getting a potential 6.8 percent increase in wages. That's Very very difficult for me to support Also, uh, I'm wondering madam Madam chairman if you can assure the council that that this is going to be dealt with Before the next council because you're going to be putting a lot of work into this between now and april And I would hate to see it get carried over to a new committee. Uh, it's going to be a mess Oh Thank you again, your honor alderman borne. I can assure you that we will try I don't promise anything and alderman clayunas They the non reps will be getting that Percentage increase based on those three components that alderman gisha was talking about then they also by this code Are eligible for a merit raise now alderman gisha pointed out to us that a merit raise then would be added onto their salary year after year after year by Not giving them a merit raise, but calling it a bonus Then there will be eligible for Up to that 3.1 percent of their merit raise, but we will be calling it a merit raise this year Because a merit raise would mean that it would be automatically added onto their salary So the word bonus was put in there. So it's a one-time thing But that again that merit raise Ability to get a merit raise is also in the code Alderman many Thank you, your honor For background and comparable. It's important to note that what this really does is provide a comparable that union folks get in their steps Non reps have no steps Thus the secondary merit increase is an attempt to have some sort of parity with union folks because that Extra percentage then is in place of the steps People will understand this in the teaching profession It's the same principle in the police department. For instance, the longer you serve the more you make you simply don't get an inflation rate increase Year by year by year by year But your service and your seniority are represented honored valued and paid for thank you We have one more. Alderman Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor. So it's my understanding. This is merely a stopgap measure for 2008 So that things can be sat down and Simplified in a way that it it's it's easier to understand and probably Probably makes a lot more sense in the long term rather than handing out seven percent annual raises compounded, so I will support this as a as a one-year stopgap measure that we can sit down and and hammer out a long-term future Thank you Thank you, mr. Mayor Sounds like it's been one complicated issue that that the committee's been working with And I thank them for their work In trying to wrap their hands around this particular section of employees that we have I certainly cannot support a 6.8 percent increase which would be entitled if we don't do anything I still and i'm very happy that other increasing their Their contributions to the premium payments by two percent as well. It's the right direction I think that we need to go seven percent is still an awful in a lo so when you compare it to the private industry A 3.3 percent raise this year is awfully high when you compare that to the private industry even with Merit evaluations done by supervisor. I think they're a wonderful tool For motivation in certainly again the private industry But I have been at places myself where we know the merits are coming up We analyze you know we get analyzed by our supervisor And then at the end say well we had a tough year you will qualify for a raise We have no money to give raises this year our apologies And fortunately have to lump it that that aspect if there's no money We can't give it out. I think we're at the point in time that we don't have the money And again, it's no disrespect to the employees who work very hard But As Alderman Warren mentioned the senior citizens on social security only got a 2.3 percent raise this year And we're asking at least for a 3.3 So I will not support this Only because I can't really support a raise this year for someone that is not non union reps It has not been negotiated for a long contract as well And it's not out of supporting a 6.8 percent instead I just think that that our our taxpayers are hitting their point. They can't afford to pay any more So you have all respect to the committee. I will vote no on this one Alderman balk Thank you, your honor. I uh Echo what alderman ryan and ryan flesh said I would just like to add that to our very hard working city employees It's important to understand that the taxpayers. This is an incredible burden on them personnel costs are the Great share of what our our budget is and this is a chance to bring our personnel costs in line with what the What the commercial world would do someone getting a 6.8 percent raise Would be someone In the commercial world that i'm used to is someone who would bring in tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars more profit to the company Is what you would have to do and unfortunately in public service what we do is spend money And so I would I would think that someone being eligible for 6.8 percent in an environment where what you do is spend money Instead of bring in money would be It's just untenable in the long run and I applaud the chairpersons Taking on this thing sounds like it's 20 years old or so That's a great time to turn it upside down shake it up and do something very very different that reflects Our taxpayers ability to pay in the future. Thank you, your honor Old man many Thank you, your honor just a question I think many of us believe in value the the principle of step rewarding tenure and time and knowledge and service to a business or a community However, there is in fact a limit at the top end of the scale just like in the teaching profession I believe we have such a limit for years of service But I do want to ask that question directly Is that the case for instance after 20 years you're capped and all year of Can receive as an inflation rate increase? That's the question Alderman wagerman Thank you, your honor. I've Received a goodly number of phone calls on this In fact today. I had quite a conversation with the President of the shboyton county taxpayers alliance or shboyton taxpayers alliance And they're a little bit upset and very much concerned about this and As is alderman born. I have a difficult time supporting this because There are Quite a few people in private industry that don't come anywhere near this kind of a reason people ask Is it some kind of a reward to work for the city that you're giving these kind of raises? So I would not be able to support this. Thank you I know the chief clerk you want to speak but i'll call you in a minute here We will take the alderman first. We got two more alderman. Alderman dishe, you're next. Thank you. Um One more time. I'm not going to say another word about it I don't agree. I don't disagree with a word Older person wanderman said Older person bow go on around the room regarding our citizens Uh Reaction to a 6.8 percent raise That's why we're doing this is to put a a stop in place and say this has to change At the same time because of government's Failure to deal with this in august. I do think it's unfair to our employees to pull their rug out from under I mean december and say oh by the way uh We're going to figure out what we're going to do in 08 over the next eight months or six months or four months and make it all retroactive It it's our fault that this wasn't dealt with in august and and So I I don't want to Penalize our employees. It wasn't their fault. It's also not their fault. They think that these packages exist like this um I as because I said if this was The future of pay for non-rep employees in the city of shabuigan. I'd be voting no too, but it's not it's a way to Send a message and to And also to save the city money over the long term The final package will look different than this at least that's my hope But I would agree with and I had the same conversations with the same people That were discussed and when I explained this to them they were very comfortable with the fact that that It wasn't what they thought it was because it's not it's uh, I think we all feel this way 6.8 Stinks I'll take it anybody would take it. It can't happen Our employees know it couldn't happen. That's why they kind of agreed To support and in the spirit of this and they know what's going to change We told them we told them even how it was probably going to end up looking We told them they want to work hand in hand with us on it. So That's my final word. I'm sick of hearing myself on this issue. Thank you And I have allowed All men speak more than twice. This is a good example why the the rule sits in place We've been at it for almost 30 minutes. So but This is an important issue and I would encourage you that it when discussed discussed and the committee again Please try to attend because it's gonna be make good some good discussions We have all of them and Ryan and then we have all of them Thank you again, mr. Mayor My question is if this is not passed what is the What is the option? Do we revert back to what was on the books? Where all of a sudden we are giving a true 6.8 Pay raise that will be compounded if that's the case we would be foolish not to support this compromise For this one-year period Thank you Thank you, mr. Mayor. I I agree with alderman ryan That if the if we default back to what exists now, it's it's a worse situation. This is a compromise and I hope you can assure us that alderman gishe remains on that committee next year. It seems like he's doing You really want to punish him, don't you? One more hallmark. Thank you ronner um Being a committee member. This was a very contentious issue We had almost every department head attend the meetings And I wish more of the alderman would have attended the meetings because they would have understood what we're trying to do This Pay plan has been in place. It has not been honored by other councils We are trying to fix this and yes, it does seem like a lot of money But the department heads do have this budgeted already These people have been promised These wage increases and these merit raises which will be a bonus this year And I think it's wrong for us to now at the last minute again say no We have to go back and look at this some more these people have been waiting I think it's only fair To give them this Increase right now and then work on the problem and fix it for the next year And I'll just have a final word here It's a good discussion to have and I believe that there was even talk I may be wrong, but I believe there was even talk about changing the policy and the code as it stands now When that happened we had Department heads and unwraps that were concerned because that meant it could be zero. It could be one. It could be two It could be anything The compromise was Don't change it in mid-year don't or don't change it now because it's already in place This is what they're legally entitled to based on our policies and our code as it stands now That's just what they're entitled to but they were understood the concerns of the alderman and they were willing to meet halfway So to speak and say okay We'll sort of waive what's in place right now with the code and policy If you agree to this particular amount if you don't agree to that amount tonight You revert back to the code and you give them the full amount that's there Unless you want to come back and change city ordinance and change city policies That's the extreme that you measure that you would have to to take okay Chief curtain. You really want to talk or do you not? I'm trying to say you don't but go ahead Mike's on chief Thank you, mr. Mayor common counsel. I just I just want to Perhaps clarify what the issue is that we're discussing here today. I've been a non-rep over 10 years now I wish others who were in some of our other meetings would be here tonight I believe there was a comparison of salaries of union people and non reps And with longevity steps that are in the union contracts Those who become non reps fall behind The one who makes more money in the union what we're trying to do is there is a city ordinance that addresses the pay plan I have Offered my services to alderman gisha to work on this to straighten it What we're looking at is years ago. We went away from the pay plan We got a 1.7 1 year. We gave it back to the city to pay for insurance Some of the unions did and some of the unions did not we did that year We must remember that this this is not necessarily a 6.8 percent pay increase Because these pay increases take place at midpoint So what that means if you have someone the the pay range is between say the pay range is 10,000 to 30,000 That pay increase Occurs at the midpoint at 20 thousand dollars so those who Are paid a higher salary Get less of a pay increase than those who are on the lower portion of the salary What we're trying to do is take care of I believe and I wasn't here when this was created Take care of the longevity steps that don't exist in our pay plan We have highly qualified people who take these jobs And I think what I what what I stressed this year was please It's it's by ordinance right now in the past you have to take care of it if you're not going to follow ordinance Resin the ordinance or just follow it what we're saying is this year go ahead. We'll take a bonus This will affect Those who are younger or who plan on staying longer because that bonus will never appear on their salary It's a bonus and I think many of them deserve it. So with that I think we just have to remember the pay the pay ranges. It's at midpoint Thank you, mr. Thank you, jade. Okay. We are going to call the vote on resolution number 19 33 Please call the roll montemay or rinflage ryan smith rongamon boran bauk gisha hannah heidemann kittleson clayunas mani and mayer 10 ayes for nos Ocean carries 1934 general owners number 790708 by albin montemayor Mayer, gisha, heidemann and verhasel amending the code so as to delete office supervisor and administrative assistant Slash a confidential secretary and create administrative assistant slash office supervisor in the police department Albin montemayor Thank you, your honor I move that the general ordinance be put upon its passage Better motion and second under discussion. We're combining two jobs correct Any further discussion? They're being done. Please call the roll rinflage ryan smith wongamon boran bauk gisha hannah heidemann kittleson clayunas mani mayer and montemayor 14 ayes Motion carries 1935 general ordinance number 80708 by albin montemayor Mayer, gisha, heidemann and verhasel amending the code so as to delete the current part-time senior citizen center supervisor And create a full-time senior citizen center supervisor albin montemayor Thank you, your honor I move that the general ordinance be put upon its passage second Motion and second under discussion albin ryan Thank you, your honor. I see here. It says that the salary annual salary remains the same at forty one thousand dollars It just moves from a part-time to a full-time position. Does this mean then that this employee becomes eligible for benefits? albin montemayor Alderman ryan. Yes So in in reality here we're going from forty one thousand dollars and probably a twenty five thousand dollar benefit package on here which should bring it up to a little sixty six thousand dollars from forty one thousand so I think that should just be uh be noted. Thank you Alderman play this I don't believe that's the case. This person is Almost full-time. They're they're insurance and everything's prorated. They've been paying more on their insurance and Than the full-time person. So it's not that they're getting a new ride. They've been getting benefits, but at a reduced Rate and paying more for their insurance are getting the same insurance. So this person really I believe being on the senior center commission needs to be full-time Uh, the senior center is only open right now four days a week And because this person can't put any more hours in and so by doing this by adding the hours on this the senior center She can work on friday and actually do some of the work that she can't accomplish on the other four days Because the senior center is very busy. She's been very successful in Working with the seniors to increase the traffic and activity at the center And it's it should be a full-time job and it really will not cost the city as much as it as it sounds Thank you No, okay. Alderman raya second time. So what we're saying here then is this Individual is already receiving insurance So that there will not be a large benefits increase Okay, I also believe that the the senior citizen center is a is is a duty of the city to For our senior citizens. So I will support it. Thank you. Thank you There'll be no more discussion. Please call the roll Ryan Smith Longovan boron Belk Yesha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemayor and Rindfleisch 14 ayes Motion carries other matters authorized by law 2061 will be referred to ethics board point Alderman Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor on 2061 and 2062 I I have a question here. Um, this appears to me to be an open records request If I may ask, uh, madam city clerk Is this normal procedure that we take open records requests and refer them to committees? Is this been done in the past where somebody puts in basically what's an open records request? And and we're referring it in this case to the uh, To the ethics board Is this normal procedure? Yes I don't know if it's a normal procedure or not But an open records request would go directly to the person that has the records When we're dealing with the city if I were to receive an open records request for example If I'm in custody of those records, then I'm the person that they would address So is it normal perhaps not? I mean these these documents appear to be to me to be nothing more than Basically a witch hunt Or even worse an attempt to Slander the reputation of alderman hannah on this council And I would like to make a motion at this time to file both of these documents Motion and second to file 2061 and 2062. I'm sorry. Who did second that? Okay under discussion There being none all in favor say aye All in any opposed Alderman hannah is abstaining Hold on rain flies. We took the vote. Do you still want to say something? Okay motion carries both items are filed Pardon me Oh, your vote is no, okay Okay, hold on. Can we back up a bit? Hold on. Hold on. Please please call the roll hold on the road Road call is to file 2061 and 2062. Please call the roll Okay, sniff Wongamun boran bauk yesha hannah Heidemann kittleson clayunas mani meyer montemayor rinflash and ryan Ten eyes one abstention and three nos motion carries 2063 resolution by alderman hannah amending resolution number 720607 dated july 17 2006 To change the three business persons added to the city county shared services committee from non-voting to voting members Thank you, mr. Mayor I would I would move that the resolution we put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion More red lights coming up alderman montemayor Thank you, your honor. I was glad to see this resolution by alderman hannah. I think they should be voting members. Thank you Thank you. Alderman clayunas Thank you, your honor. I guess I also See it as a good thing Can I ask alderman hannah why he wants him to be voting members just for his reasoning? Thank you president hannah Thank you very much. I'll address you mayor They have been active participants and bring a depth and breadth of Knowledge to lots of issues that we address And I think it is important that when citizens are willing to take time out Of their busy lives to give to the citizens We need to recognize that by giving them the ability to vote Thank you Any other questions There being none hauling favor say aye. Aye any opposed motion carries Other matters before we uh convene in closed session. I'd like for attorney mclean to uh do other matters attorney mclean And stating that at the landscape of the city He's not allowed to make his customers grass clippings to the drop-off site and finding a challenging for his customers We'd like to see something changed that will be referred to public works That will be referred to risk management 2066 is a an aroh by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period in June 30 2008 and June 30 2009 That will go to law and licensing 2067 is a communication from steve heighten regarding his concerns with files of unbagged garbage To 2501 Calumet Boulevard and other buildings on both sides of the street in the 24 to 2600 That will be referred to public protection and safety and public works 2068 is an ordinance reestablishing the salaries of election officials That will be referred to salary and grievances 2069 is a claim from Sheriff pop for what damages to a vehicle when a city garbage truck backs into a vehicle. I'll shoot a stop to the stop center That will go to risk management Before I ask for a motion President hannah I'd like to just announce to the public that the council will now be going to closed session to the class to discuss closed session Matters at the time that we come back. We will not be on camera anymore This will be the last part of the of the meeting today home and henna. We need a motion as read Thank you, mr. Mayor I'd make a motion to convene and close session under the exemption provided In 19.85 1g of the wisconsin statutes for the purpose of conferring with legal counsel For the city who is rendering oral written advice concerning a strategy to be adopted With respect to litigation in which it is or is likely to become involved Motion and second any discussion on the motion of the closed session There is no one favor say aye. All right We take a roll call. I'm sorry. It's roll call it. Uh, wangaman boran bulk Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan and Smith 14 ayes Motion carries we are We will convene in closed session and ask everyone else, uh, excuse themselves