 I do believe that, within my group, we start first with the ethical and moral implication, and we've been designing toward human dignity, rather than design just to do it for the sake of technology. Boom! What's up, everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host, Alan Sakyan. Super pumped to be talking about the future of the brain. We have Dr. Newton Howard joining us on the show. Hello. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm super excited for this. It was great being there yesterday for the talk that you were giving, and it was very cool learning more about your work, and I'm excited to be able to share it with our audience. For those that don't know, Dr. Newton Howard is a brain and cognitive scientist, the former director of the MIT Mind Machine Project. He is a professor of computational neuroscience and functional neurosurgery at the University of Oxford, where he directs the Oxford Computational Neuroscience Laboratory. He is also the director of MIT Synthetic Intelligence Lab, the founder of the Center for Advanced Defense Studies, and the chairman of the Brain Sciences Foundation. You can find all of Newton's links below, including his website, newtonhoward.com, nito.com, as well as his LinkedIn profile. Newton, let's start things off with one of our favorite questions to ask our guests. What are your thoughts on the direction of our world? We live in an interesting time where basically we have to re-examine where we're putting our resources, and the allocation of these resources will then guide and govern what is the next chapter of our history, of our existence. May or may not totally agree with all the way of how we are allocating these at this time. To the extent possible, I believe that more allocation should be toward things that prevent our Clyde with an eventual and non-avoidable fate of this planet becoming obsolete. A lot more science ought to be directed in that focus, and less toward trying to create more conflicts in the name of eradicating conflicts. Okay, I was going to ask you about where to optimally allocate the resources that you wanted, how you wanted to see our trajectory move in that direction, but you gave the example of us having more sustainable mentality about our own planet. Is that kind of the essence? Yes. Okay. Yes. The direction that we're going right now assumes the existence of these resources forever, taken for granted everything that we have on the surface of this planet, and inevitably ignore the fact that we may have to have a replacement in the not too distant future. A few hundred thousand years is not a long time in human existence, so it has to be starting planning for it now and accounted for it now, not just when a crisis erupt. It's unacceptable that meteorites would be on a course of collision to Earth and nobody noticed it and escaped somebody's radar in this time that we live in. It points to a fallacy or something wrong in the way we're directing our resources. And then what would be some of the more optimal resource allocation methodologies that we could pursue at the private level, at the governmental level, at which levels and how would we allocate the resources to these efforts? I'm naturally biased to things that enhances us as human, that gives us the faculty that we lost and make us better at what we were on existence for, and seeing that this augmentation would also come out at a price of science, at an allocation of which direction do I put things into the brain research, do I put things into space research, do I put things into static AI or synthetic AI? What's most optimal for increasing the intelligence of us towards that sustainability? Interesting, so it might not even be just financially figuring out where to funnel money, but it's where can we also galvanize our own intellect and time and these types of things? Financial allocation isn't necessarily just the predicament that we're solving for, but the intrinsic drive that would govern these financial allocations and other allocations, our resources, our time, our focus, our surrounding that influences our epigenetics and so forth. And then where do you think that all of the indigenous cultures that are currently making it clear to humans that are living in metropolises about this disconnection that we have from source, this disconnection that we have from nature, from what sustains us, where do you think that fits into all of the issues that we have in our society today? This is a good effort from a lot of communities and people and individuals and organizations to make back this connection that is lost but not fully detached through awareness, through realizing what is it that we are missing, what has gone wrong, where did we depart and then make that turn back into these points and correct them so that we can actually have a better utilization of our resources, including the human energy and the human capital. One of the most common ones for us is that literally just connect more. We have this beautiful ambiance around us right now recording this interview outdoors and the breaths of air and the drinks of water and the bites of food. All these things are reminders for us that this planet sustains us and that we need to treat it like it sustains us and that to remember that when children grew up in metropolises that they don't necessarily get to connect to the cosmos because they can't see them but due to the light pollution they go to the grocery store exchange a sheet of paper for an apple they don't know how the apple got there. So these are critical processes in remembering what sustains us and this ties that to the sustainability that you're mentioning. Indeed. Now Newton, it's probably one of the most important things that we do in the future is to make sure that we understand what's actually happening inside of our brains, inside of our bodies at large including our hearts and all of our major organs but especially our brain is so important and actually it's probably one of the most beautiful parts of the evolutionary trajectory is this nervous system that's able to take in these inputs, make sense of these inputs and then make decisions in the environment that it's in. Teach us about kind of like that evolutionary trajectory of the brain, what got you hooked into being fascinated with it and then what you're up to now. So interesting that you put it that way because when I think about the investigation of where is the mind it brings me to the thought that a reference Plato and Aristotle inquire into this and finally reconciled to that it exists in the brain, in the gut and in the heart and recently a lot of the literature and the scientific discoveries are pointing to where these receptor sites are located that do the majority of the neurotransmitters and whatnot and the location is in fact in the heart and the gut and the brain. My particular interest in this area and the work that I focus on is that I assume I start with the assumption that the human brain was at a level of perfection that surpass what we have today and that through time, through protein misfolding, through dialectic misfolding, through evolution, whatever other things that we may attribute had degenerated. We became essentially less intelligent than where we were. Our faculties are lower in capacity than it was and from this assumption I ask myself what can I do to compensate and bring back what is missing and that led me to the concept of brain prosthetics. Not just brain prosthetics in the sense that it only solves for the diseased or the broken brain but it is also brain augmentation that naturally brings back the capacity and the things that were lost through time. Now would then the natural course of the evolution of the nervous system over time be then the natural course of the degeneration then of it towards the end of its life cycle? Essentially what we see in our normal living, in our normal existence is that the person as the age, their faculty moves towards the generation, obviously the extreme case is the neurodegenerative diseases or disorders and the lower level is just the cognitive decline that comes with age and whatnot. But in nature it is compensated by a level of plasticity that actually corrects for some of that but not to the level where faculty is augmented and to the extent that we would like it to see. So in the offering that my team and I have been working on we were able to actually come up with these type of devices that we hope to be the next generation of prosthetic and brain augmentation devices. Okay so we have methodologies to return the nervous system more towards youthful homeostatic capacity without prosthetics. These generalities, things of eating healthy, sleeping enough, exercising these things can get us longer longevity and more healthier cognitive capacities during each day, these types of things and over the lifetime. Yet even then we still get old with age and have degeneration at the end and so to be able to make then the next step is then we need to make the prosthetics. We need to preserve, life preserve that mind's creative capacity to continue engaging with it's family and it's community and it's in the world and building more and creating more as it gets ages more and it gets wiser potentially and is able to contribute better. Okay. Okay. Right. It is essentially like metaphorically assume that the aged human is like a collection of books in a library. And in the case of Alzheimer the library is getting burnt, torched down with all the content and experience and the knowledge. Would we want to actually just sit and watch that happen and do nothing about it? In the state of an investigative state of science today in relation to that disorder for example, some companies had given up on trying to find remedies or cure. Some companies just settled for lower level way to compensate for the decline of cognition or cognitive decline until such time that is no longer these remedies work. That's inadequate. They have got to be better solutions, they have got to be better compensators and that's where we actually focused and moving in that direction. What a profound analogy that the library is being burned, these pages are being torn out, you can't find what's written on the pages as easily, all these sorts of things. The associative web is becoming worse and worse, it's degrading. Interesting. And how important is it to our, especially our closest ones, our loved ones and our families and our friends and our relationships that we want to preserve those books of life experience of wisdom, of creative capacity throughout life and be able to parse them and identify what were those key aspects of people's lives. And that's such a profound importance of this endeavoring. Now okay, so now have then the last, how long have you been then working on putting together these prosthetics and yeah, teach us about that, the teams. So I started my scientific journey focusing on essentially human agency and a sense of self and looking at the modeling of human intention more in a computational sense. And then I spent the majority of my early life and career working as a government officer in the intelligence community and subsequently at some point in time I have an awakening to what I can do outside of that space. And I decided to look at where these apparatus are being fabricated, where it's being produced essentially at the seat of consciousness which is the brain. So that journey we date back to early 2000, late 90s, all the way to when I finished my study in Oxford in 2014, incorporating part of the study into looking at these prosthetics from various aspects, from the material science to the application layer to the analytics to the hardware design and so forth. So collectively it's an ongoing journey of about 20 years worth of work that led to a substantial amount of design material, actual prototypes, certain aspects of application, life patients of the actual therapies itself. The lab in Oxford is attributed to a large number of clinical interventions in Parkinson and in other disorders, you can see in the absence of 900 patients have benefited from some of the therapeutics effect, interventions. The actual technology in the form factor that we would like it to be is still an ongoing work in progress that is likely to be available on the market within the next two months or so. 20 years, two decades in the space just sponging up the edge of the fields and wanting and synthesizing, figuring out your role in the equation and also wanting to go out and make impact at the level of what can be seen with our families, with these closest ones to us when we see that someone has Parkinson's was one of the neurogeneral diseases that you listed and that what therapeutic benefits can we create that can almost immediately be seen to make us live healthier and wanting to get that done as quickly and efficiently as possible. Yeah, again, just brings me to what you were saying at the beginning that if we can have our these these libraries that we have within us if we can have additional books get stored and synthesized with what's in the existing library, who knows what unique new creative novel thoughts could come if we can more sustainably keep ourselves longer. Now let's talk about this technology. So this is the most recent endeavoring. It's been 900 over 900 now patients and the it's for the therapy for Parkinson's for deep brain stimulation on Parkinson's deep brain stimulation on Parkinson's. Okay, so right now we do both noninvasive brain stimulation and we do invasive brain stimulation. So yeah, so let's let's talk about those two and then let's talk about how you are doing this in basically how you're identifying the target how you're implanting your technology and what it's doing. So the the the world of brain machine interfaces, brain computer interfaces and DBS, which is deep brain stimulation, it fits into two categories, the invasive and noninvasive. The invasive basically uses tools and methodologies and surgery, functional neurosurgery like craniotomy and craniofacial insertion, which requires the opening of the brain in getting into layers of the cortex that are relatively intrusive. The noninvasive class, which is like TDCS, TMS and so forth that may transmit stimulation direct current stimulation. These are passive, they don't penetrate the cortex to the level that we hope for. Therefore you can get the therapeutic effect for all the different things or indications that you hope for. Our technology at the moment fits within the class of the intrusive or semi intrusive intervention with the direction towards non intrusive technology, we refer to it as patching and whatnot. This one is on the horizon. The current one that is ready to be deployed, it's a system that we refer to as the NOAA system, which is made out of a Kiwi chip and two fundamental layers of architecture. One is referred to as FCU, fundamental code unit, and one referred to as VC, which is the brain code. The fundamental code unit is an analytical framework that essentially leads us to understand the inquiries between neurons and the communication between neurons, thereby allowing us to do the clinical intervention at the computational element. It's what being conveyed rather than the general flush of the intervention for the electrophysiology or the electro activity of the brain or the chemical activities of the brain, which is also some of what exists as a state of the art today. It also allows us to intervene not only in an electrical fashion, but also using the power of light or optogenetics. The techniques of optogenetics is that we marry a protein segment to the specific neuron, thereby activating what we refer to as neuropson sites and causing this neuron to be photoreceptive. When it becomes photoreceptive, then you're able to channel it into an honor of state. By changing this functional structure, we're able to halt the disease or modify essentially the programming of that particular zone. I hope the technical level is adequate for the audience. The way I explain it is more like putting the capacity of your house to receive electrical signal, electrical of the grid or light of the sun. And then in the house a lot of things can happen as a result of these capabilities. The structure of the world when it comes to the neuronal world essentially is that you have a structure, a brain, the actual neuronal structure and a neuronal function. And together it exhibits a behavior in an outside world. We want to modify this behavior in an outside world by affecting the functional layer. And since really the structural layer is something that we don't want to manipulate that much as that is the old method. Okay, so we are doing fMRI or EEG first to find this area of the brain that we need to target? Yes. Okay. Yes, so when the first level of intervention is to reach a level of diagnosis and perhaps before the clinical diagnosis is reached. So in the case of Parkinson's you can discover it as early as 21 years and the earlier you discover these disorders the more likely you are able to do something that can correct or slow down the disease. It's always interesting thinking about how we haven't had the full connectome yet of the brain fully mapped out in all of its nuanced neural architecture as well as neurotransmission that occurs. And yet we are going in there and that in itself is like, well how do we get that done, the connectome done and the full understanding of neurotransmission? And then so then you're identifying the area that needs the therapeutic and then you have what is the style of process, what are we putting in and how are we doing it? So once it is discovered that this person is for example received the clinical diagnosis of Parkinson's and that the actual procedure is appropriate for them meaning that they are of good health otherwise that can handle a surgery like coronatomy or coronary facial. With QE technology you are able to intervene at coronary facial intervention or surgical technique, the surgical thing that you can use because it's a small in size and you essentially use this passageway to insert a device about 1.9 by 2.2 millimeter in size which is roughly about the grain of rice into the zone that has been implicated. In the case of Parkinson's that would be the subclimate nucleus or STN in the basal ganglia and you drive the QE device chip into that area. It is then made of material carbon nanotubes that neurons start basically gathering around their area and growing it would then sense this growth of neurons or the presence of these neurons start modulating electrophysiologically modulation pattern that is fit to stop the trimmer which is the most immediate thing that we want to stop. So this neuromodulation happens by pulse generation essentially at a very very low power. There are two other therapeutic effects or engagement that takes place. One we refer to as a scaffolding effect and the second is or the third would be the optogenetics in the event that that's what we want to do which is re-growing cells or reprogramming the functional area in this projection zone. The system has the capability of communicating this data outside of the brain to a nearby device we refer to as a propagator and then the propagator is able to convey or connect this information to a system on the cloud that is essentially a full scale referred to as a brain operating system that is capable of processing this data generating additional inferences or corrections or modification to the firmware or to the software and then following the same path for a backward again to back into the chip that process continues on for the life of the therapy. We do inductively charging so that it's a chronic device we do not have to go back and take out unless there's some serious clinical malfunction or malfunction, electronic malfunction of the device, which is all to be determined and worked out in the future tests before we actually go into the first patient with this full encapsulation. All Parkinson's is basal ganglia issue in that area. Parkinson's is a complex disorder but it maps to essentially the dopamine secretion and the vesicles of secretes dopamine is not working optimally and there's additional explanation to the causality of what causes that to happen in the first place, first order effect and what not and we essentially treating it when it becomes absolutely... Instead of 21 years ahead of time. And then the neuro prosthetic size of a grain of rice then what... How is that fabricated at that small of a size to be able to connect to neurons inside of and how does it connect to neurons, how does it do the optogenetics for the therapeutic effect? Sure. The system is made of a system on a chip, a system on a chip is connected to the CNT chip, the CNT chip and the system on a chip is get a radio element and a battery element and all together actually is fabricated of material that is unique and to shrink it to that size of a package is being quite an engineering challenge that we still working aspects of it, but our target size is approximately 1.9 by 2.2 millimeter. My goodness, I'm just imagining the smallest, tiniest little tweezer hands that was working that surgery. Yeah, that's working that surgery, yeah, that's trying to put together all these complex pieces. Wow, yeah and then you explain the inductive charging and then there's communication then that happens, it's able to then touch, is this tens of thousands of neurons or how many? We are targeting or our goal is a million, we are targeting in this next one approximately 10,000. We are now at about a few thousands and it has a level of sophistication of reconfiguring some of these channels and sensing what it's touching, unprecedentedly beyond any capabilities that has been expressed so far. Sensing what it's touching, I was thinking about that as upon entry I was envisioning this. Forest. Yeah, and then it's okay, let's say you put like an actual forest, you put a bigger grain of rice into a forest and then it just touches all of the leaves. And then the idea... Well it doesn't quite know what it's touching at entry. So then I was imagining that there is some sort of like upon entry that there is some sort of this like linking process of oh I know what I'm touching, how to stimulate it, how to do the therapeutic effects and that's like how does that happen? The system carries onboard intelligence in software, that's a NOAA system which stands for Neurons Unaugmented Human and essentially is made out of these various modules that is onboard and these modules sense and position these neurons in space and figure out whether it's touching the tail or the front or the middle or so forth and then assign what is the modulation pattern that is going to be re-induced into this projection zone. So these sensors are at like the scale of like a micron. So at the micron level it's like little micron hairs or like tiny little vesicles and that's able to decipher what part of the neuron it's touching. And wow and hopefully 10,000 on this next one. As we clearing out the or debugging the first scale then we keep increasing the order of complexity but the target is about a million and the actual device is engineered such that you can actually put in the brain a number of greater, let's say greater than 10 devices can actually be inserted into one human brain without causing any damage. So then there's a process of processing the signals that you're getting and then there's also a process of that tiny little grain of rice being able to communicate what it's reading through a closed loop to the cloud, okay for lots of computational power to understand and then there's a closed loop to it distributes that back into the device for what to do and then the device then will say okay so then that means that this area is my target this aspect and this is where I need to apply the optogenetics and then yeah but you said there was a process of you need to make the cells photoreceptive. Yes so there is a process where we basically introduce the adenovirus to allow that genetic therapy to actually take place. There is a process to identify the number of connect. There is a process to choose the appropriate therapy. This basically going up the stack all the way to the cloud and back to the device again. That's a process where the system is learning and depositing some of the information is being collected real-time and near real-time but most of the intervention is taking place on the device directly real-time because it carries a system on a chip so it's capable of executing certain courses of action that is already being prescripted if you will. Okay and the this virus that's applied makes the neurons photoreceptive then you apply the therapeutic effects of the optogenetics and then after a period of how long does the virus then leave the... Roughly six months within less than six months of sustainability and re-injections you can actually reach the therapeutic effect. Okay six months of... So six months of I would... Would I feel? Do they... No. They don't feel ever... You don't feel any negative effect. But do you ever feel like optogenetic? Do I ever... Would I ever feel like my... Within my basal ganglia that this is happening? So you feel the tremor effect is gone? You feel positive effect? Interesting. So rather than a tremor effect occurring I wouldn't feel where there would be a tremor effect. Yeah. But interesting and then within I'm just trying to imagine something in my basal ganglia making it so that I don't feel the tremor effect. Okay and what that would feel like? Well it's like a person on ADHD who is extremely hyper and all of a sudden they take their medication and they feel so relaxed and calm. It's almost like that feeling. Okay. Or a person who is you know Parkinson's Parkinson's have a very ugly side to it where you all of a sudden become like a child again. You're not able to plan your motion. You're not able to control your cognitive capacity. Other faculties and other psychotic also behaviors. You essentially benefit from seeing all these things gone and over time completely eliminated. Once the therapy is in effect and the regrowth takes place and the electrophysiology back to homeostatus you're back to normal. You can focus on bigger things of being a human. And if you you know wherever you were at the elevation of knowledge you were able to climb back to that elevation and then be there and then climb further rather than crash and burn like I said in the Alzheimer which is inevitably the state that we're in today. It's beautifully said. It's important to point that when we do tag some of these neurons and address the corrections it's not that it's going to statically stay there forever. There's a process of corticogenesis and motion that happens where things actually change but when you change there is a corrected next generation that came into that place which is important to see happening in the zone of projection that was once L and now it's cured. And has new neurons have grown? Well essentially we'll essentially have new neurons if the intervention happens at a time when there's completely a deaths of neurons then you won't have that if the intervention comes earlier then the stem cells and the ability to regrow takes place. This is why identifying this with that that you should 21 years in advance while the stem cells are still able to then do the neurogenesis that's okay cool. We had to design a tech form for the measurement of activities during the living that actually a wearable it's an essential earbud that allows us to actually do this detection and help aid the physician to do the diagnosis as early as possible because it will do the measurement during the time that you making coffee or you having breakfast or you know or your normal day of work so that you're capable of actually recognizing this consequential indicators. And soon it's just computer vision occurring in the background and watching that movement and the biometrics constantly being streamed up and analyzed yeah now what's what's next in the trajectory of this you have okay it's Parkinson's it's it's it's trying to democratize that more around the world to help people and then also it's other neurodegenerative yeah identifying other biomarkers for neurodegeneration and trying to go in there and make augmentations and then is there also a map a roadmap for neuro augmentation at large for even someone that may be a you know 15 or 25 year old or and then you were also teaching me this and yesterday about potentially just being able to have this as a patch instead of an invasive yeah take us down this road. So you kind of like to go down a path you'd have to imagine a different world today we depend on iPhone on PDAs computers all of these devices as an aid for computation and as a way to learn language as a way to facilitate new information and whatnot well let's imagine a world where this type of interventions or this type of needs or not needed you you you think of a question and the question is queried or searched or done and offloaded directly into your visual cortex and then it's all happening within your brain so your eyes is doing the search your thoughts as being a query your text query essentially and then your brain is projecting that information and it's all happening that would enable you to do photo reading that would enable you to download new language have an application that does whatever you want it to do well the past to that is essentially understanding the details that's in the brain the pathways and being able to capture and learn these pathways so that we can actually have a patch device that hacks its way back at the risk of using the word hacking and using the entire nervous system collectively as a whole this future that you're imagining of us being able to download a little SDK of a language or a the cutting-edge mathematics or it's such an interesting world wouldn't I want all of it and then just have it all in store to access at any point make all these associations in the web yes and then when we all have access to that then then that's the civilization's knowledge fully democratized accessible with thought absolutely and that's this flow of instead of meat sticks yes the limitation limitation is essentially imposed by how fast you typing by you know think of the moving from the wire speed to your thoughts speed would I be as greedy as saying I want to download 50 languages to my head 100 languages the entire set of languages as known to humankind yes I would and it is it sits at a fundamental belief of those who want to actually make the machine have this capability versus those who want the brain to have this capability I believe the computing power needed it sits in a box that we all carry the brain with all its affiliation they got in the heart and so forth is being able to actually tap into this hidden resources and into this computing power and into this gates and into this peripheral system and and have it work the way it was intended to at some point in evolution that's the key differentiator between my school thought and that of some of others that are actually approaching the brain machine interface problem so it may be that these this ultimate evolutionary trajectory of our species on this rock the next step is to treat the brain the gut the heart as gates of opening that portal up so that we can have this free flow of civilizations knowledge of yes back and forth through from us and through it rather than the appendages and using these externally inside of us yes so the so the speed of creativity and all that stuff it's just communication let's just it just becomes it it seems frightening to some but it is what is beyond gxxxx is it in a transmission speed fuel do we even need these wires do we even need this ether connection there might be something even faster than that and we won't know until we actually explore these areas and I expect that we will see this eventuality was in 10 to 50 years so it's not a significant period of time further out and to do it with a great amount of ethics yes and morality and philosophy embedded with all of these brilliant neuro engineers and neuro designers neuro augmenters can we get these right philosophers and ethicists and moral scientists working alongside them and especially geopolitically yeah we make it for peace and for creativity or collaboration but also we you know compete to get there but in a way that is collaborative and yes yeah that's such a critical component of it yeah going to our first question is do I take this capability and make it available and only available to augment soldiers or do I democratize it that make it available to everybody starting with those who are inflicted with the worst conditions like neurodegenerative disorders and what not preserving our libraries preserving our heritage restoring human dignity that's what brings it back to your initial question is the importance of this reallocation of resources the doesn't start from the budget table from the capital investment it starts from our own conscience drive intention to guide it in a particular direction today there's a lot of work in that area and support in that area that comes from military organizations DARPA and ESD etc various programs like that with others are following it in that direction sometime you know sadly without questioning the ethical and the moral implication I do believe that was in my group we start first with the ethical and moral implication and we've been designing toward human dignity rather than design just to do it for the sake of technology excellent yes that ethos is so strong in you and then that resonates with others that are able to also realize that and carry that forth as the first principle yeah a couple quick ones on the way out Newton you mentioned that consciousness beings the seat within the the evolution of the heart gut brain that that sentience arise through that process there's also so many other spiritual leaders that say that that that we come from the source and that we take our seat of consciousness intentionally in these bodies to experience specific lessons on this school of earth what are your thoughts about that I think that we were all correct in the way we describing it it's the description is coming from the journey of where we're coming from so each one perceives it in a slightly different narrative but the collective narratives is the agreement that exists the conscience and whether we want it to be a conscience that it's pure and reasonable and fit it to word being able to accept the larger things that you know sits ahead of us is it journey into the stars is it journey into the conscience itself it all it all starts with trying to understand what is consciousness what is intelligence where is the seat of this all and brings it back again to a question that has been asked thousands of years ago and we still don't have a definitive answer do we need a definitive answer or is the journey itself the questions along the way are the important part power in that question along the way in the journey and Newton how about are we in simulation we could be we could be yeah I couldn't give narratives on the top of that and what do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world existence you know to be appreciative of the beauty of existence rather than resented and worry about the heaviness of it and all the things that brings plagues and psychosis just be happy exist fact there is something instead of nothing yes wow and thank you so much for coming on the show teach us about the future of the brain thanks man such a pleasure we're super appreciative and grateful thank you thank you thanks everyone for tuning in we greatly appreciate it we'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode let us know what you're thinking also check out the links in the bio again newtonhoward.com and i2o.com as well as newton's LinkedIn profile check those out and have more conversations with your friends your families co-workers people online on social media about the future of the brain and about all the technologies we talked about and preserving these libraries and endeavoring more creatively and also support the artists the entrepreneurs the spiritual leaders the organizations around the world that you believe in support newton support simulation our links are below to our patreon our cryptocurrency our paypal link design cool merch and get paid join us and help us grow and go and build the future everyone manifest your dreams into the world thank you very much for tuning in and we will see you soon peace it's good good job really good job