 I'm David Darrell, from Northern Victoria and Australian Dairy Farmers. Thanks John for your presentation, I'm pleased to see it warts and all, that's what we need. My question to Phil is, I'm pleased to see that you acknowledged through your presentation the pain and the hurt in the regions. My challenge is that we need to hear those same frank points being made by all your staff when they go out and present, because it appears to me and some others that the NDBA is seen as the cheerleader for the environment and the government promoting the plan, rather than being objective and independent and giving us both sides of the story all the time. Thanks for the question Darrell and look, I'll see what we can do about that. We've got to be that objective voice, we've got to be able to tell it like it is and just as John's sort of told it like it is, I guess that's what we'd like to be able to do as well. Ultimately that's the role of the NDBA is to feed back to governments what's really happening out there and I think it's a bit hard, it's early stages in terms of the economics as John's already pointed out and also the environment as David's pointed out, but I think we've got to do that if we're actually going to be fed income and governments are in a position to make informed decisions. So I take that on board, you comment on board absolutely and I'd have to say that in my tripping around the basin very quickly in the first few weeks that was a really quite a dominant point that was made to me that we're not listening, we're not consulting and David's talked about engagement a lot as well and I think that's what we've really got to work harder on is trying to better engage, recognising the size of the basin and the size of our staff. Thanks. Thanks Darryl, thanks Phil, any other questions? Yep. Yeah, my name's David Moore, I've got a long family history in the Macquarie Valley. My question is about to David, perhaps. David, you said you're part of the role or your role was to ensure that you maintained or the ecosystem, the current ecosystem or at least tried to restore it. I noticed in one of your priorities at the Macquarie Marshes which is a marsh is defined as a place where you have intermittent wetting and drying cycles as far as I'm aware. So you've got the Macquarie Marsh, but one of your priorities was to establish wetland corridors in the Macquarie Marsh. I'm just wondering why you would establish a wetland in a defined marsh and is that not modifying the ecosystem rather than maintaining it. Thank you. Thanks very much David. Just some general comments maybe before a specific. The observation I would make about naturalness is one that I tried to make in the presentation that what we're doing is managing to a series of mandated targets or outcomes. I'm not aware of any across the entire basin, I'm not aware of any wilderness or pristine environments. You're operating in a changed and regulated system almost everywhere. So there are therefore a series of conscious decisions about what you're managing to. The Macquarie Marshes is a Ramsar site, it's got an ecological character that has been developed or identified and we're attempting to manage to that. I'm not aware of the specific concern you're raising about wetland corridors, that will come out of the New South Wales Government Agency's management program for the marshes. But I do know that we struggle in the marshes as we do in other places in getting environmental water in the right place at the right time. So we've been very successful at getting it into parts of the Macquarie Marsh and not in other parts. And I think the corridors that you're referring to have been partly a management response to ensure that if we can't get water evenly spread throughout the marshes at the right time that we are still allowing the fauna at least to move throughout the area. Okay, so thanks David and David, are there any other questions that people want to raise or comments? No, I can't see anyone, jump up and down if I can't see you. No, okay. Well look, I think that then allows us to conclude the session. Thanks very much. As you all know that I've picked up, water is a challenging area to get the politics of water. I'll just make two quotes from important historical figures, you know by the name of WC Fields and other people such as that who I think once said that whiskey is for drinking and water is for fighting over. And then to understand often the politics of water and this is before even government intervention, there's an old saying which says that everybody upstream of me is a thief and everybody downstream of me is a winger. And so that tends to define the politics, it's an inherently fraught area. One thing which I've been quite pleased about notwithstanding the fraught nature of some of this is that there is quite deep partnership in some places including with John for example in running the systems and there are better ways through than just you know the government here, I'm from the government, we're here to help you and I think it's very important that David is telling stories about localism. He now has I think six, is it? I think you'd like to have more people employed out in the basin and we're working very closely with John and his colleagues and some of the other state colleagues as well. I'd also like to thank Nicola in particular, it's important to get the good stories out of Tasmania. There's some absolutely terrific stuff happening down there and I only wish in some respects that we on the mainland and here I'm using a collective we, we're in some respects just even a bit as good as you guys down in Tasmania and I think things might be a bit easier but we're not starting with the clean sheet of paper up here in the Murray-Darling Basin, it's something which has been fought over for more than 120 years. Now some of this stuff had its roots back in the pre-Federation debates so I'm not expecting all of this to be finally solved by 2024 by any means, it's just as well we'll leave something for our successors and grandchildren to do but I'd prefer actually that it was more of a positive heritage than sort of continuing to manage in a fraught environment but with that I'll bring the session to a close, thank you very much for attending and thank you to the panel members.