 Welcome gentlemen to 21 convention radio. I am your host Christian McQueen and I'm joined by Goldman and that woman on leech dot com and Rolla Tomasi from the rational mail.com. How you guys doing? I Want to first apologize for my voice because like I was just telling you a minute ago. I've spent the last almost six days Trying to keep my voice above a certain decibel level and I've just been I think if I can sum it up in one word It's overwhelming Because it's just non-stop just being cornered by guys and just talking all the time just answering questions and And you know shaking hands. Yeah, it's been a great experience. Yeah, exactly I'm in the same boat like it's just been non-stop talking and all the guys have been interesting That's the thing you want to have that conversation because they have so much to say Yeah, and they want to hear it from you and it's just like talk talk talk in a good way It gives you energy though. True, but yeah, basically you guys are tired to talk So we're gonna talk for the next hour. Yeah, so we're gonna talk about a few different things. We're gonna kick it off Starting with this convention the 21 convention. This was my first year attending as a speaker and attending period Same here. This is your first year your first year. Mm-hmm So I'm curious to get you guys opinions on, you know, what what were your expectations and where those met where they exceeded And kind of overall how you'd sum it up Start with you. I Was definitely surprised by this. I don't think it's any secret that I had my reservations about attending but I think that with the With the quality of the speakers and just like the you know The variety and everybody has their own kind of red pill niche. That was really really exciting Just to see, you know, how people go about it in different angles The other thing is is that I think that it's not just One guy getting up and talking for an hour It's all the conversations and every as you can see by my voice all of the conversations that come Afterwards or in between speakers or in the evening. There's always something going on. I know you had your things going on and you were Corousing There's a lot more that goes on than just, you know, it's not just you're gonna sit there and watch speakers all day long You're gonna be able to engage and you'll be able to talk and and I was I have to say I was not ready for it I knew that was gonna happen But I was I was like to the degree that people were hitting me up and it's almost like In between speakers and in between days It's I gave only gave two speeches But I feel like I gave like probably, you know, 20 speeches because I could you know Walk from one room to the next and guys would hit me up and say hey I got a question about this a question about that So there's that kind of accessibility that you don't get in any other Any other form or any other media I think and it's all one-on-one and it was great It was great shaking hands and it was great hearing stories and and you know It's it's guys getting together and just having you know having a good time for sure, but it's also very educational So I think that it well exceeded what I thought, you know, nice my any expectations that I have Well, I was really excited to see all this come together in like a physical form because we've all known each other on the internet Right, and I really truly blue. This is something special like what's going on What all we're we're writing about what we're talking about it is truly something special like there's nothing else going on I think it's like something it's a revolution Yeah, so to see these guys together like that energy that gets in the room is just it was awesome to feel an experience Made me feel really good. I mean, it's just it inspired me to do more That's so it's been awesome. Yeah, you're going home with the bullwhip Oh, yeah, well tell I want to hear where did this come from? Yes We've been calling you the Indiana Jones of the Red Pill for a very long time and Every time you you post something or you've got some new new story to tell because you're like the storyteller of the Red Pill as Well, I guess and just the shit that you do Though you just go off to To you know do your adventures and do whatever you want like that's that's crazy Just wherever you go and when you live stream and you live tweet from from you know when you do your I guess America I want to for lack of a better term American tours when you're going out and so I think I think it was me that coined That the term calling you your ability because you got the hat and everything and I was thinking you know The only thing this guy doesn't have is the bullwhip So right after that I just went online and found a found a company that makes though. That's an actual real bull Yeah, it's made in Mexico. It's so when he when he was giving his speech right before he was to give his talk I came up and gave him a bullwhip and said, you know, here's your honorary Yeah, here's your honor a bullwhip. Yeah, it is perfect because like when you when you said Indiana Jones I am on a quest for treasure. I want truth and like this is what we with this I want truth and this is what I'm looking for like whatever. I'm doing. This is what on the search That's why I love this convention all these guys are speaking the truth And that's what we need and I don't know how I'm gonna use this but some it's coming out with me one night Oh, yeah, you should oh, yeah, it's coming out with me a good conversation You know the funny thing is I had this thing sitting on my nightstand Because you're the light you're on the last day you're on Sunday. I had this thing on my nightstand the whole time I'm just maybe wonder what the housekeeping ladies thought me in my life I got a little like oh my god that thing's dangerous by the way, very dangerous I Yeah, I kind of a different perspective on everything because to be honest coming into it. I had no idea what to expect. I really based on Not necessarily events of attended but events. I've seen footage of Kind of the type of people I've seen attend other type of events that are maybe in this vein Mm-hmm. I was very kind of hesitant in a sense because at the end of that I want to be surrounded by a bunch of weird fuckers. Yeah four or five days, man, so coming into it though I know you recommended me and I believe Goldman to Anthony Yeah, and then I had Anthony on the podcast And I'm like you know what like he's a really solid dude I think I have a pretty good sense of character and someone's you know true personality So it's like all right. Let's do it right so it was all kind of a leap of faith to come do the convention, but I was completely blown away by the organization of the event the professionalism Anthony the In the inequality of the attendees because you really never know I mean when you invite people via the internet hey come to this city and we're all gonna hang out We're gonna learn You really could get some really fucking weird people. Yeah some weirdos on the internet. Yeah That's that's actually a discussion that needs to be happening. I think really when you're organizing Something like this There's a lot of personalities and there's a lot of guys who have who are just I can talk to you guys like I know You know my whole life, but then there's a guys are don't have the same degree of like social Intelligence right that other people me just to say it as nicely as I possibly can and so there's a lot of people that you know are Everybody in this room. I think you don't know that everybody in this room right now is You know they're all solid guys. They're all guys I feel like I know like all you dudes like for you know ever and I this is the first time I met like most of these guys and I mean I met you guys before but I mean that felt was one time in 2015 You know in Vegas and I'll met you twice but You don't know what you're getting into and so you don't know each guys state and that's actually one of the things that I try to do when I'm here and I'm talking to guys as I kind of try to evaluate where they are So when I have whenever you know the guys come up to me and they want to shake my hand and was saying you know roll Thank you for saving my life. Here's you know, you know, I can I buy a drink? Can I what can I do to like dude the best thing you could do is you can tell me about yourself and you can tell Me about what your your experience is and how I always say that I if somebody's coming up to me and meeting me for the first time If you've read my book, it's almost like we have some sort of connection to begin with so I'm not like weirded out by like just meeting new people and So my first question to them is always, you know, how did you come to reading my book? How did you come to the red pill? How did you come to the man's fear? I mean, maybe they went through you know me personally or they went through the red pill subred or you know Maybe they found you may found me. It's like there's all this interconnected stuff that's going on So my first question to them is always, you know, I want to hear your I want to hear your story I want to hear your background and usually from that I can sort of get a feel for where that guy is whether, you know He's he's really hurting, right? Or whether he's just on top of his game and said man, this is great. You know, I'm so glad that now, you know Why? You know why things happen in the progression that they do and why women are this way or that so Yeah, I think the biggest thing that came across to me because I was getting I just said cornered but guys would come up to me throughout the entire week Even in the bathroom. Hey, bro. Let me ask you a question. I'm like hang on a second But was it the hunger, right the hunger for knowledge and in the very like respectful attitudes I mean, everyone was very respectful Very appreciative, you know, thank you for your time and that real hunger for truth and to you know To learn how to really be the best man they can be and that's really what I believe this convention is all about So the point is for me after having experienced it I'm very very impressed, you know, because I was coming in here with no it's not like I Through the event, you know, we had the man-to-man seminar bag as you go So I was invested in that right that was my event but this I was able to come in and kind of look at it from behind the scenes and It was really impressed really quality people and also the other speakers Yes, very cool that I've known on Twitter Like I've been thrown You know people can come across a certain way through the Twitter medium through even their blogs I had multiple people come up to me here and they were like man, I really expected to hate you But you know so people can come across certain way being able to meet them in real life and find out like oh Wow, this this guy's a really fucking solid dude. Are you really connect with them the family alpha? Socrates I didn't get much every time we were gonna talk. There's like 15 million people around it But great great people. So I think it's it's been quite an experience. Although my liver is fucked. Yeah And I I behave myself right up until Friday Yeah, I knew I had to had to deliver but yeah, it's it's a fun It's a fun weekend if you can if you can come out and you can you make up a plan for something like this I would definitely say you have to do it at least once if you're if you're part of this community If you're part of the man's fear you really owe it to yourself to yeah, absolutely I don't think it hurts at all to To plan in advance to you know and you know as soon as the dates come out I know the tickets are always cheapest at the beginning to get your ticket and plan it out and just plan for a real experience Oh, yeah, it was an experience It's got knocked on my door like two in the morning this morning You know what I throw the bag of Doritos at your head, I don't know The girl was just the look on her face. She was just like what is going on? Yeah, who are you guys? I know oh my god was your Which what does your wife say about everything? She was this is her first time really? Encountering people that I've been talking about for a long time like I'll say you know I gotta go see Christian or I'm talking to just you know Goldman or I'm talking to you know half a dozen other people on on Twitter and she you know I Engage a lot on Twitter and I engage a lot through my my blog and my my comment section Those are my main my main ways of talking to people and so you know just Meeting the people that I've been talking about for the longest time in person and now she's sort of saying okay I get it I understand because I think a lot of people have preconceptions about this this kind of thing because I think it's a Bunch of nerds or they think it's a bunch of well, you know, why would guys need to go to a Seminar to learn to pick up girls. They should just know how to do that if they don't then they're fags or then they're you know, they're you know What's aspirate their spurs if they don't if they on it's like no, it's not what it's about I mean, there's there's like I said, there's such a depth and breadth of different guys from all over the place I mean I was talking to guys who flew in from Great Britain just to be at this and I actually I think Orlando by the way I lived in Orlando for eight years if you didn't know but I think Orlando is a great place because it's a hub It's a it's a central part for where everybody other than Las Vegas, you know, God bless them right now It's it's one of the convention capitals of the world and so is Vegas and I think they're I think they're pretty evenly matched Right. Is your wife's cool with this though? Oh, she knows Well it because you had come you would come through Reno when I first met you and I put you up at the pepper mill and And I she's like who we put you know No, I put him up. I got him. I got him a couple nights Rooms No, no, no, no, no, no, it's a it's a huge casino. It's gorgeous one of the premier properties in No, it's not no, no, that's just called it's a it's a very very nice, you know And I took him out to sushi and everything. She's like who is this guy? Like one of the guys that I know putting up that was even that was even before Before the man at demand conference. Yeah, because I was in July or like the summer before we did the new conference and I Said no, I'm gonna put him up. He's a good dude And so I wouldn't talk with you and we did that little you know impromptu video just by the by the washer What are we? But yeah, is she cool with that of course she's cool with that man. I've got three books It's been going on for I mean I've been blogging and I've been blogging for six and a half years now or close to six and a half years And I've been a part of the so swab forum, you know since 2002 and I was a moderator for that I'm not I'm not really as active on that form as I used to be I still go there and you know Sort of lurk once in a while to just see how people are doing, but I've been in this In the man is fear wasn't even called the man is fear back then wasn't even called red pill back then Since 2002 2001 so around though around there and that's where I started picking up my You know, I was in school at the time as I was working on a dual degree and one of those degrees was in Behavioral psychology and so it was really interesting because to me I see all this psychological stuff that was going on on these forums and these guys and a lot of that Like inspiration and that material ended up becoming a lot of parts of the books and Anything else, but yeah, she's always been along along with it. She's you know, she Talked about my wife. She is she comes from Alright, she she her father's very very alpha and she comes from an old school kind of you know All right, so I got a question before All right, so for all of us Like coming to stuff like this and seeing it in real life, like how do you think that's going to affect how? You put yourself out there after this because I know there's the pre anonymous rule I've been there and then yeah, well as you probably already know, this is the first time I've showing my face Yeah, I've I've got three books out. I think it's probably time that I can be a little bit more out there a Lot of I feel kind of conflicted about that because I've always been so you know Guarded I'm in a position in my life right now where I work for myself So I don't have to worry about you know getting doxed and having people go. Oh my god. You get him fired, you know You see I mean that happens a lot You know people see your face that you rate facial recognition. They go there's that guy and You know get you get you Expelled from school or however they could possibly ruin your life and we always tend to think of it in terms of you could lose Your job. Well, I don't have to worry too much about that But I still have other vulnerabilities when it comes to like my daughter my wife my family I don't want them poisoning my dogs or something like that. So that's where that dude lives I mean, there's lots of ways they can people can get to you that that aren't just your job But I kind of I'm at a point where I don't have really much choice, but to put my face out there now I'm not gonna You know, I'm not gonna put my face on my avatar on Twitter anytime soon because it's just you know That this is this is my brand and put this on this is it gonna change your work at all Um, I don't know. I don't think so. Okay. Um, I wouldn't think so I'm primarily a writer as it is. I'm not really a Like I open all of my my speeches with I'm not a motivational speaker. I'm not a guru of any of any degree I'm not here to you know To save your life. I'm here to help you save your own life kind of thing and and really When guys come up to me and they say, hey, thank you so much. You saved my life I was literally going to kill myself and then I read your book and it explained everything so well And that is a very common story a very common, you know Gratitude I get here Um I didn't set out. I didn't go. I'm okay. I'm going to put this book out I'm going to try to save people's lives I didn't do that I just put this out because I thought that this was going to give guys the tools that they need To understand game and to like go out and and use this to their advantage and not just not just, you know Picking up girls, but dealing with women on a day-to-day basis There's material in here that you can use for to work with your Your female boss or your mom or your sisters or whoever, you know Just the waitress at the you know waiting your table Just knowing stuff, you know the the nuts and bolts and what's under the hood So that's not gonna that's not gonna change at all. In fact, I'm I'm I'm kind of I'm kind of wary about talking about being a writer. I'm you know, I'm really wary about Getting too wrapped up in like the pull it the politics of the red pill and Trying to promote it as a brand because that's not my my thing My thing is writing and it's sitting and coming up with ideas and writing them down and putting it together and People were asking me what's next where I got three books right now and The audio I should say for preventive medicine just went just came out and Sam Boda is all you guys know Sam he's the he's the reader once again and That was pretty exciting. I really wanted to have this out for the for the convention, but I'm going to I've got a fourth book that's in the in the works right now and it's going to be very specific I always think of this as the the core rule set and then these are the supplements to the Leads me into my question. So for people who are not familiar with the books break it down for them in terms of Yeah, what each book really encompasses. Okay, the rational male when I first wrote this This was a collection of my So this is your first book. Yeah, that is the first book The rational male is really the core works. It's uh, it goes through hypochromy. It goes through oneitis It goes through There's so all of the uh, I have nine what I call nine iron rules of tamasi. Those are all in there It's pretty much what I Compiled through my time at soswav and then about four years of the blog is in this And it's it's putting these principles, you know together so that people can almost use it as I don't want to say text But but for lack of a better terms of tech like a core rule book kind of thing Um, so I always tell people just to read this one first and The funny thing about this I see guys at this convention who are You know carrying it around and each one of these things is just like, you know, all dog-eared and And you fold it over and highlight it and liner notes and the in the margins and stuff like that And they always they always tell me, you know, I'll I'll read part of it And I read through it, but I keep coming back to this part. Can you tell me more about this part? Or what about this and they think For each like kind of stage or whatever a guy is going through There's certain aspects of this that that guys get into and maybe they don't need, you know To worry about one item because they never had that but they want to know how hypergamy works or they want to know You know the psychological aspects of things so It's really what I call a living text. He keeps going and it keeps going Even I when I I still have this but I still go back to it And I still like if I want to go out and have an interesting conversation Just because I feel like inspired to talk about, you know, relationships between men and women I'll go back to your book and I'll find some section and I'll be like, okay We can talk about this and that'll be my topic for the night and it always sparks up something interesting Yeah, because yeah, it's like when you tell a girl this stuff They they just like they've never heard it before and they I understand it Yeah, and I encourage everybody to have that conversation with girls Yes, like do it in a pleasant manner, of course Almost joking because you can't take it if you do it seriously They're going to get offended But if you do it in the right way it sparks up the most interesting conversations. Yeah, I always I always Talked about the story of the guy that I knew whose girlfriend Took his book from him and was reading through it and she confronted him with the book and she's like Everything in this book is true But you shouldn't know any of the stuff that's in here because it's like giving away all the secrets Yeah Exactly So like I said, I think if this is sort of the the core book It's the living text that that people go through So pretty much everything that I all the other books that I have written or That I will write find their foundation, you know, they they You know Pre-understand that you've already Read this right so I'm just I just presume that you've read this when I go into these Preventive medicine was number two again. This just came out on on audible This is was a direct response To guys saying Rollo, you're brilliant. I loved your stuff, but I wish I would have had this when I was 20 years old or I wish I would have known all this shit before I got divorced or before I got married and had these kids Before my wife left me or whatever. I wish I would have known all this stuff before and I'm like That was like the most common thing I'd ever get. I'm like, well, I can't turn back time and go give it to you But um, so I thought well at the least I can do is create a timeline To let guys know just You know what they can expect basically what to expect from women being, you know, their most predictable things at the Predictable ages, so I run from like 15 to 50 and Just what guys can expect from a woman who is like 18 Oh, yeah, I can do that. Are these yours? Okay. Yeah, I can do that. Yeah Uh, anyway, so I'll just say that I wrote I put a timeline in here and it's just the most basic things that you can expect from a woman and uh, this set this tends to be one of the the books that I get a lot of I think the most questions for because they're looking at stages of maturity where the girls are like in their party years between like 18 and maybe 26 27 and then they're what I call the epiphany phase when they just decide that they Have to cash out of the casino and they have to cash out of the sexual marketplace And then from like 30 on, you know What you can expect from a woman who's trying to settle down with her beta and and then you know When guys get into the later stages, you know, well, why is my wife divorcing me? Well, because she's going through this phase right here these kinds of things and just basically so that they get an idea of what to expect and then the third book is I call it positive masculinity and that was actually inspired by the man-to-man conference Because I had fathers bringing we really had fathers bringing sons and sons bringing fathers And I met a bunch of guys a bunch of fathers there who Who told me, you know, when do you think it would be a great time to To give your book to my son because I don't want them to have to go through the kind of shit that I had to go through You know the mom bad mouths them all the time Yeah, and so I'm like I'm like, well, uh, you know, whenever you think you can but you really need to Get to your kids or get to your sons and daughters really At a much earlier age right now because what I call the village, you know, it takes a village to raise a kid The village right now is the media and academia, you know, they're school teachers Watching disney, you know, uh all that kind of stuff that's influencing kids In direction of what I call a feminine primary social order And so that's primarily why I wrote at least the first quarter of this book It's called the red pill parent and to help those guys To, you know, basically prevent their kids from having to go through that kind of stuff for themselves. And then Andrew Hansen the guy who we we actually dedicated this entire convention to I dedicated this book to him. He was the private man and he passed away back in april or was it march or april march And uh, and I dedicated it to him and as I was riding through this I realized that guys kind of need to Understand what masculinity has become today and how we you know, we see the popular image of the father Who's supposed to be the family patriarch and the guy looks like a bumbling idiot He looks like Homer Simpson or we ridicule that guy and it's not even just the father archetype. It's just the man archetype And so conventional masculinity today that you know, we would call, you know, sometimes we'll call traditional masculinity um Is really something that is negative and we'm sure you've heard toxic masculinity hyper masculinity as bro culture kind of Shit and those are real distortions. I think a masculinity today and it's either that or The feminine imperative is trying to obscure and blur what what masculinity Was and is and can be for for men and I think a lot of guys right now are very confused What masculinity is so they think that uh, masculinity is bullying or it's like overbearing or That kind of stuff and it's just this distortion of what you know, real good positive You can be masculine. You can be patriarchal and you can be you know beneficial and you can still be a pot There is a positive masculinity even just saying masculinity these days is like a no-no. It's like it's evil Yep, I got a lot this weekend. I told girls when I was out meeting the what do you even what do you hear In orlando for I was like, yeah, I'm here for a conference on masculinity as soon as I said that word they're like, oh No, really Say like what's what's wrong? Yeah, I was like, yeah, I was like positive masculinity. We're here being mad. Of course. I challenged them Yeah, that's what I do challenge girls Some of them were bitches and then other ones were like really receptive like the one on friday night that I just pulled From the you just say it you just say the word masculine. Yes at automatic reaction The this last book that you wrote Was interesting for me because when I was reading it the first Huge chunk of it was for parents. Okay, and obviously I'm not a parent That you know Well, yeah, exactly good point But it was cool to read it because when I was reading it It made me reflect on my own parents and like all these mistakes my father made just yeah Because my father was super alpha in every way except dealing with women and your book touched on that And it was like a healing process. So like I knew that was a problem growing up So I could just it helped me, you know, I had all this It was a bad influence But right fuck it. You didn't really have a choice Because who knew back in the 80s what's going on, you know, I that's funny You should say that because I was having a conversation with my wife one time I was talking about my dad my own father and my dad was a really A confused guy. He was very old school very old books very old social contract kind of guy where you go to work every day You get a pension You don't change jobs like we just change jobs like we change or close these days Very old school very I provide very much a beta provider in that in that term But he didn't he didn't see any other way. He was never going to be a cat. He was never going to go run around And not that he couldn't have done that he probably could have but he Was very confused when it came to women. He always he had a very very deep savior schema He very much would like I go and do this. I fix your flat tire and you maybe Give me sex or your phone number whatever and so it was always like this transactional thing for him And even when he was married like I still to this day cannot believe my dad married my mom But going through this and writing this book. I had the same experience too. That's funny. You had that the healing process Yeah, well, so I heat well, I knew how my who my dad was from the time I was 16 really I figured it out but Just knowing the mechanics of all the things that happened between my mom and my dad when they got when they split up my mom was a very A very conservative christian Girl when she you know, she went to a christian high school and all this stuff back in the 50s and everything And she had my she was with my dad who was very much a strong beta provider And you know went to work every day brought home the paycheck every day and everything has to very very orderly everything had to be in order and And my mom on the other hand was just kind of you know, she's a lovable dits, you know a lovable but you know kind of awesome in space sometimes and she For you know seeing her with my dad I'm like, how did this happen in the first place? But then when they split up my mom goes straight for the alpha disco king in the 70s and she lived with her boyfriend who was This this guy who if you think of like the epitome of the the 70s disco studio 51 dude Who's you know like that shirts open a goal and the and it was a good look at dude Don't give me runny and he was very very alpha super super alpha And it was like an exact polar opposite and so You know being red pill and coming to where I am in life right now and I look back at that and I go That is exactly I mean it's it's this to the to the letter. It is this So did he ever remarry my dad my dad did yes He remarried once and then he got divorced again from that because again, he lost his ability to provide he was And he put his value on that he put yeah, he put his entire identity into his into his his work And uh, he was he was a very high High-powered executive kind of guy for hospitals and things like that And one day the hospital got bought out and they fired off everybody in the hospital and they brought in a whole new staff And that was the end for him and he basically was retired at 55 56 years old And his life was just over from that point and then he ended up passing away from Alzheimer's So it's crazy It's such a thing with that baby boomer generation that all like a lot of these guys who have these problems now Because it stems from the parents because they didn't have that proper dynamic that baby boomer generation like yeah The guys were turned into betas. Yeah, like just that whole generation the ones those are our fathers So now we're we're doing this big reaction. That's why I think stuff like this is amazing The 21 convention is the revolution. Yeah, we're finally fighting back We we've seen the truth like role put the truth out there and now there's guys like us doing shit about it And so I think it's a very very special thing. Yeah Do you think that it'll spread? More me we already see it But do you think it'll spread more in the next couple years from being more in the shadows To being more in the mainstream and more widely accepted like do you think there'd be a point where It tips over you think it's always going to be a struggle and we're always be You know a small subsector society May I don't think it's ever going to get mainstream But there's going to be enough people outside of the mainstream who are sick of this shit And we have the internet now which has changed everything right you just google something you could find this So there's going to be a major major I think more and more people are going to find this And if somebody doesn't make it happen I'm going to do my best to make it happen No, I'm serious like this is fucking Important I honestly think that it should stay Out of the mainstream. I I would very much like to Keep it You know As something that is I want to say it's secret knowledge But I want to say that It's I think that one of the strengths of the red pill is that people have to seek it out They have to be looking for it because we don't advertise It's not like you find the red pill in a magazine or something like that You're not going to be able to find it Yeah, a sky ball or a red pill right here What are it now But you know So that kind of predisposes guys To you know be a little bit more open to what you're talking about because most of the guys that I was talking to I you know asking for their personal stories. It was You know I had lost my wife And or I'd lost my job and then I lost my wife Or my wife cheated on me or Or I was suicidal or some variation of that And they They're all seeking it. They're all looking for some kind of answers And I mean I'm going to write a post about a fellow that I met At this convention who was literally planning his death day. He had it planned out. This is the day I'm going to kill myself And here's how I'm going to you know, I'm going to write this to my kids and make sure he was just basically playing He was so fucking nice that he didn't want to inconvenience anybody with his death So he made a perfect little plan for it And you know what he was going to do with with about his kids and you know, sorry Writing notes to them and everything and then he got ahold of the first book and he completely changed his life around Yeah, but he was seeking it. He was looking for it And I think that that's one of the strengths of this is that More people are going to be open to it if that's if they're actually looking for it instead of me going Hey, let me get do you have five minutes to talk about the red pill? We want you. Yeah Do you think though in terms of I don't mean maybe I phrased it wrong about it being mainstream, but do you think that um, it's something that will More and more men are going to find or do you think they're going to they're going to go In the opposite direction like a lot of them already are like in other words, they're so weak and so um anti masculine Or do you think you know, they'll be kind of well, I think that like I was saying before when I was writing positive masculinity I think that so many guys have been raised in such a feminine way and such like feminine what I call feminine correct way We raise our boys in you know using teaching and learning styles and strategies that are effective with girls, but they're not effective with boys and so We tend to treat our boys as if they are defective girls And so we've got these kids that are coming up through generations And and that's just one aspect, you know the academic side of things and maybe they have a very overbearing, you know domineering mother You know, they're seeing all of this, you know, female empowerment strong independent kind of stuff So you've got generation after generation of those guys that are coming through so there is that aspect of it for sure Um, I think that if there is going to be a change if there is kind of a shift We certainly need to be here to help them out. We certainly need to you know, have the tools and have the the What I like to call it triage you help those who you can and you just kind of lay out You know read last rights to the dying kind of thing But I think that it's not going to be guys like us that wake up the most amount of dudes It's going to be women who are, you know Triumphantly crowing about hypergamy and you see the the narratives in commercials and in movies And it's it's the exact same thing where the woman is getting away with her her sexual strategy above all else And guys are starting to wake up and say, you know what? This is fucked and I'm not going to be I'm not going to play a party to this anymore I'm not going to be her dutiful beta at at 30 years old I mean the the quote that I like to use from Cheryl Sandberg as she says, you know CEO of facebook She her advice to young ladies is to date the bad boys and date the commitment phobic boys And basically date the alpha dudes and fuck them when you're in your party years And then start looking for a a dutiful equal beta when you get to be 30 32 But you know marry those guys and oh those betas eventually You know in time nothing will be sexier When you hear messages like that when you and I hear She said eventually nothing will be sexier Then the beta? Yes, then the guy It's basically a textbook example of Creating alpha widows and I've used it in at least two of my books, but uh, it's I just keep coming back to it because I call it the sandbergie and plan for hypergamy Because it's because that's that's what's going to wake guys up That's what's going to make guys more aware because if they keep seeing it in the mainstream They might be a little hesitant to take advice from like a guy looking like you or me or anybody else because they think it's a little bit weird, but I mean in nowadays I keep reading article after article after article from women who are in their mid the early to mid 30s And all they complain about is why can't they find a a good a good guy? Where are all the nice guys or how come I can't find anybody? I can't find any guy who's my equal which really means somebody who's above me or equal or above me And men right now The common complaint is that they're trying to extend their adolescences into into their 30s. Um, they're not preparing themselves. They're not You know Going to school and and bettering themselves and finding a good job and all this stuff that was supposed to make you a man Um is really all the requirements that these women want these guys to have but yet They're following Cheryl sandberg who says go fuck all the alphas in their party years And then you know, these guys are going to be your patsy when when the time comes around and guys aren't signing up for that Shit anymore. That's why they can't find them. Isn't it true that uh, the marriage There's less people getting married now than ever and a lot of it is the women are saying Yeah, we can't even find a guy to marry us. Exactly. There's a statistically if a woman is Uh after 33 or 34 years old if she's not married by then statistically she will not get married Jesus, yeah And and then we're also looking at it and we're looking at a time where women's Their their providership and the beta side of things of the the long-term security is being more and more Met for women. So It's so all the really need to get married Yeah Yeah, they don't they want to get married right but they want to get married to a guy who is has status and has money and has You know something going for him educationally, which is just the buzzword for I need a guy who's gonna You know be above me and and be the guy And but they spent their whole lives either well both fucking the bad boys in their in their party years, but also creating the You know or I should say just erasing the need for that providership in the first place So they're only looking for like the super elite, you know apex fallacy the most apex guy that they could get And they're not good. They're not going for those girls. They're going for the girls at 22. Exactly. So Um, I think that if anything shifts in the future, it's going to be and we're already seeing it guys are just We we call them the the dropout generation And they're just basically tuning out and they're you know Playing xbox all day. This is the common, you know the trope They're playing xbox and they're just jerking off to our online porn And they're ordering they're ordering. Yeah, they're ordering pizzas and you know, they don't even go out They don't have jobs or whatever and there's a wife and right. Yeah, but what you said bad in japan too I should what you said before is like a lot of these guys they They're drawn to the red pill and these answers because of a tragedy Yes, I think what I foresee in the future, there's going to be more and more of these fucking tragedies It's not getting better. Yeah, there's going to be well. It's not divorce. It's going to be that guy who's like Hitting his late 20s early 30s. He's like, why can't I get a girl? They'll go to the internet and google it That's why I think it's going to be this is going to pick up more and more Because there's going to be more and more tragedies because you can't go on like this This is like we're human beings. We have to keep going and these guys are There's going to be a small percentage, but they're going to be hungry for answers And they're going to find it somehow some way they're they're going to be the seekers Those are the ones you want anyway, right Well, I and I worry about those guys because we were just talking a minute ago about How each of the guys that we see here all have sort of varying degrees of like social intelligence And so it's the guys who you know, I've talked to guys who were virgins right up until they you know read my book Or they never even kissed a girl, you know, and we're talking about guys who are 28 29 years old And it to me that's almost tragic, you know, because I have this one post called you need sex because I really feel that that's part of A man's normal life. That's a healthy life I mean, are there you know, are there monks who are celibate? Yeah, sure But that's those are the outliers. I think that to have a full experience of life That's part of that And when I see a guy who is you know, a 40 the 40 year old virgin or something like that I see that and I I'm it just it to me. It's tragic It almost looks like it's like seeing somebody who's lost a limb or something and he'd like you Because they're never fully developed. Yeah, they never really really mature in that way And I think that there's there comes a maturity That you need You know, when you love a woman when you're with a woman when you've been just having sex with a prostitute Would probably be better than what these guys are having to deal with Let's get out of the system. I want to ask you. So do you think For a man to fully, you know, kind of become a man and transition from boy to man He has to go through that experience of having his heart broken Yeah, I do I I think that That's a and that's that's really hard because people don't like that. They don't know that's usually some of the most Chaotic traumatic Experiences of a guy's life. It was for me. I know that I've probably went through it three or four times actually, but um Yeah, definitely that it's a it's a learning experience and I I Kind of hesitate to tell guys, you know You can avoid all that with this and I'd like you don't want to avoid that You need to learn from that experience. I mean learn from what I'm going to give you but also Be it again a student of life. So that you yeah, hopefully it happens earlier than later I had some heartbreaks in my teenage years early 20s is the last like heartbreak 24 24 was like that was that was hard. I was depressed for a year after that But I mean The earlier the better because if you're doing that in your 30s, you could lose your fucking job If you can't function because that was just unfunctional like that's how bad it was when I was 24 Thank god it didn't have a business. How would you suggest someone gets it out quick though? Obviously getting out and having experiences right meeting. Yes dating, you know, not even women just see the world That's like, yeah, see everything find something you're interested in And just go for it put all your effort into it create something new That's like the best way to get over it. I think one of the most effective Things about me as a writer is because I have so much to draw upon um People will read this and they must they presume that I must be some super alpha, you know apex alpha dude and it's like I haven't always been that guy I mean when I was when I was in high school I was very much a blue pill beta very much like I mean I had sex when I was 17 Okay, but it wasn't because I was such a badass It was just because I happened to figure it out a little bit better than I had been able to But I was very much a beta very much had one eyes from my first girlfriend I was just very, you know, wrapped up and involved in that and then when that when that heartbreak happened and and she ended up I ended up moving to a different town for her And she ended up screwing the guy this other guy while I was I'd already moved and I I was going to be the dutiful supportive you know beta provider guy from you know the word go And I was willing to do pretty much anything to keep that sexual relationship going because I was the first girl I'd ever had sex with And then so that fell apart and then because you don't know yet that you could actually do another Exactly, you're not and you're not in the in preventive medicine. That's what I call the break phase It's usually when when you have your high school sweetheart And she goes off to one college and you go off to another college and she go We're gonna we're gonna stay together, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, you're not going to stay together She's gonna be fucking whoever she wants to So there's that aspect that I can speak to then when I was in my rock star 20s I was in the hollywood Rock and metal scene that was going on there. I played in bands And had long blonde hair and it's hard to believe. I know I had long gone down to my ass Was an extension. I don't want to see pictures. I played I have a mouth. I'll send Yeah, I put him in the back There's actually a picture that's floating around to me of me on stage, but it was after all that And so That was sort of my alpha phase where I was just like fucking. I don't care. I don't care what's gonna happen And I figured out I finally figured out game I didn't know I was figuring out game because there was nothing to this in like the late 80s and the early 90s And so I my game was going in and playing a gig and just sort of you're just Picking any girl that I wanted to get with and I did and that was where most of my lays came from was during that time And so I was this freewheeling kind of alpha dude And then later in my in my mid 20s. That's when I got involved with a A borderline personality disorder woman. That's why me and that's why me and anthony can have you know Can compare notes because I went through something very very similar to that So I can speak to that I can speak to being an alpha and when I was with that that bpd I was just this close to being like omega because she was just beautiful and she you know She was crazy in bed and she was crazy out of bed And so that's something else that I can speak to you Then you know then once I got out of that hell hole You know, I was dating a non exclusively for a long time I was actually for the first time in my life dating like an adult to fucking date like I'm gonna date 10 girls and You know spin plates and that's what all I did was spin plates That's where all that plate spinning stuff came from And one of those plates happened to be my life and so from that point on now I can speak to you know other issues from being you know married in red pill and all the The knowledge that I have from behavioral psychology that I've applied to red pill dynamics. So definitely I think that there's a progression And I think that I'm almost wary of guys who got with their high school sweetheart And then never did anything else They only married that girl and then like maybe they had kids when they were in their mid 20s And you know, maybe they did some really interesting things while they were married But they do not have the depth of experience that you guys have that you will be able When you guys get to be 49 years old You will have a depth of experience that you can speak to that those guys will never be able to to talk to Talk about when closing as we start to wrap up. Um, you guys have any other final comments or Things that you want to say about the convention or anything in general? Hmm Don't be shy. I am shy You are getting shy Do you have another you have another vote coming out, don't you? Yeah, it's going to be about the uh road trip around the south. Yeah, this is about that So I know what you're gonna call it. No, not yet But it's uh, I interviewed a lot of people about the dating culture in the south and it was interesting because different cities were different There's online dating that's Specific to different cities. There's social circle. There's all this other stuff But yeah, I was trying to encourage people to go out and fucking do whatever you want This isn't the 50s. This is like and that was a great conversation too is like It really sex is repressed like it's shamed and it's a tragedy specifically in the us Yeah, everybody wants to get laid and nobody is and that's funny. You should say that because less and less people It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy, but everybody wants it and people need it and it's a it's a big It's a It's horrible for our culture People need to go out and have sex so they express themselves and we and we live in such a social We live in a we live in a social condition where like guys are becoming more and more fearful to even make that approach to go Yeah, because you can get and talking about it. Yeah, you get in trouble So I'd say I really never specifically I've had girls come up or not come up But after I've gone up to them, even if it didn't really work out or we weren't, you know, feeling each other Just like thank me. They'd be like, thank you for approaching me because the guys just don't approach anymore Yeah, because they're afraid of sexual harassment or it's a hate crime in you the uk Yeah, you're right. Yeah, tinder I'm not gonna stop. I'll run To Mexico. Yeah, I'll go to Mexico. I gotta whip. I'm going to Mexico. I think that I mean just to Wrap up here. I really think that this convention was very beneficial for everybody that came Including the speakers themselves. It's good to like, you know, connect with guys that you're just no one in the virtual world It's funny. I was talking to this one guy and we're saying that there are now three ways that we express consciousness There's the one where we're talking to you and that's just like open, you know Dialogue and then there's what we have our inner dialogue And we you know when I'm thinking about something we would conceptualize and we have that inner conversation with ourselves And then there's our online dialogue now where we're going using our brains to go through and Reached another brain. Well, we're you know, we're a little bit more careful about what we type It's one of the reasons I hate twitter because like I would rather write, you know a whole, you know This is what these are what my thoughts are about it But there's that digital expression of consciousness now too And it's it was interesting to see all the people that I was digitally aware of And see them face-to-face and actually be able to talk to them because they're really, you know, it's very isolating I think that we think of the internet as this big extroverted. It's not it's very very introverted because we're always, you know In front of a computer or on a cell phone or something like that So I think that if there's any real lasting value to this kind of thing It's that you get to see people face-to-face and you know that there's an actual human being on the other side of that It's not a bot, right? It's not a bot So where can you speak on the internet? Where can people find you? Tell people about your twitter, your blogs Oh, yeah, yeah, goldmondunleash.com or at twitter at goldmondunleash same thing with uh, instagram Probably they aren't active all the time on twitter and uh, I'll be more and more active because this conference definitely expired me to do stuff Yeah, and then you can find me at therationalmail.com All my books are on amazon I have The first two are now on audible. So if you prefer to listen to it and most people I was really surprised that guys really like to listen to books more Sam, yeah, so great Seriously awesome So and i'm on twitter, um, i'm at i'm rollatomasi at therationalmail.com There it is There you go And if you're not a uh, if you're not subscribed to the 21 convention YouTube channel then go ahead and make sure you subscribe when you're done watching this video As for me, you can find me at rowchristianmcling.com on twitter at the cad club And also on instagram at the cad club a lot of fun videos from our adventures All over the world and whatnot. So thank you for joining us. Thank you. Yeah As always for your time. Appreciate that brothers Also, sir Good to see you once again Peace guys my red pill brothers