 we're going to have Andy West, a member of the redevelopment board, make a presentation on one of the visions that came out of the middle district and Andy spent a lot of time on it, so I'm going to let Carol introduce a little bit here. I will mention one thing which is Andy has put together some notes on the presentation, so before you leave, make sure that you get a mirror over there on the table, okay? So I just wanted to mention that before any of us forgets. Okay, thank you. Thanks. I also would like to take just a couple of minutes to do a quick stand and say, would you more please? I'm David White, public space committee and conservation committee. I'm David Gamble. I'm an architect and nervous planner. We think you can solve the theme work of the other companies that plan. I'm Brian Barber. I was on the middle group study committee. Laura Wiener for planning staff. Kristin Hensky, Arlington redevelopment board and liaison to the match plan committee. Mike Kerr, I should have really introduced myself up there. Mike Kerr, redevelopment. Tim Fields on planning staff. Bruce Fitzsimmons, Arlington redevelopment board. Joey Glitchville, planning department. Leslie Mayer, open space committee, parking recreation commission. And Andy West, ARB. Thank you for having me. Any questions with the respected architecture firm, Ellicott and Freddie, that you work all over the world, the longtime member of the redevelopment board, who are really pleased that he presents to all of us presentation to the redevelopment board, basically we're so very interested in that we asked him to present this to you. Okay, great. I can't believe these guys are letting me talk about this, but they usually, I'm not broken record and they usually say okay enough of this Andy, but now they actually invited you all here and I feel really good about that. Thank you, Mike and ARB. But I think Carol mentioned in a little email that, and I always want to clarify this because it's the Mill Brook and it's the Mill District and so forth. This is about, it has to do with the Mill Brook linear park, but it's about a bigger vision that we're going to talk about today. And the whole thing did start with this Mill Brook linear park, which was a, Annie LaRoyer's crew on the open space committee, a subcommittee I guess it was, of the open space committee. Yeah, and that's where it started in its more recent iteration and it's a very old idea. This is not a particularly new idea, but some of us are kind of rediscovering and I think that started happening quite a few years ago and the open space, the linear park study came back in our, to our lines and to our efforts and I know a bunch of the group here, Brian, Joey and other parts of the planning. David, I did, yeah, really did an amazing job on this thing and that's really was the starting idea. We did this report, which I hope you all will get to see, which is really amazing. It takes the Brook section by section by section and describes the condition of what it is. And the idea for the linear park, again you may all know this, but it's about a string of pieces of a park that are around the Mill Brook that could be strung together and then become cohesive. They'll never happen all at once. There may be breaks, there may be other kinds of things, but it becomes a very powerful idea running the Mill Brook from all the way from the, from the reservoir all the way down and out into Mystic Lake. But what I want to talk about today is kind of what came to light after we started talking about this and we talked about it in our meetings even and then we began to talk about it with the ARB and that's about the overall Mill District, which you see here in the kind of highlighted area in the middle and a zone between, that zone that's bounded by the, by Massachusetts Avenue on the bottom. I wish I had, I forgot to bring a little clicker thing, but I'll go up there if I have to, by the bike path on the north side and then by the, and then it contains the Brook. I'm going to show you this in a bunch of slides by those. That's okay. So Mass Ave, the bike path, the Brook and the two key nodes that we all talk about which are, you know, Park Avenue, Arlington Heights and Arlington Center. So tonight I want to talk about, and this is the right time. I know you guys are at the beginning and you're talking about existing conditions. You're talking about assets and so forth. Well, we thought, that's why I think these guys are letting me talk tonight because it's about a great asset, okay, and then the opportunities that can come with that asset. So go to the next slide. What I'm calling the asset, I'm calling it Great Bones, okay, Arlington's Great Bones. The Brook, the bike path that Mass Ave bordered this area which is literally at the center of our town, it's like the heart of our town. I'm going to talk about these a little individually. Running through Mass Ave is of course the battle boat scenic byway. Key sites that are left in our town that are quite large, not necessarily ready for development, but you know that they're going to be there as time goes on. And they tend to be the larger sites that are within our town that we have. And then cross streets and neighborhoods, and this is where I need more walking tours with Andy and the crew, but it's an amazing area at the center of our town and what's distinct about it, you'll see as we go through this, is what crosses through it and what the opportunities are for moving through it perpendicularly, that's the word. The next slide. So the Brook, the bike and Mass Ave use Great Bones. So here it is. This incredible asset of the Brook which is, you'll see we have a lot of public space that's attached to it. We have some public space that's attached to it, but it's an incredible opportunity for a central focus of the Mill District. And again, you've seen it outlined in green. It's not a green part, it's just showing this as a highlight. The opposite of a pastoral green part. That Brook has been the natural center of life of Arlington in its history from the point where, and this is where I probably need Richard Duffy, but the name Arlington means Swiss running water, which is the Brook. Sorry, the name Monotony means Swiss running water. But then all the industry grew up around it and it was a real working area that established this Mill District. The bike path was, of course, the train. And now it's the most, and I don't have quite the number on that, but it's one of the most utilized, I think the most utilized public park or public way in the state, if not one of the larger ones in the country. It's used, it's incredible. And it's part of the trails to rails network that is now actually, someone told me, a young fellow in my office that it's connected right from Florida, you can go all the way to Maine or something like that, like the Appalachian Trail, but it's a very interesting and vital part of what people are thinking about in terms of sustainability and so forth. It's just a great asset to us. And then the third piece of it is Mass App, which is, you know, for all its gas stations and things that we see that we want to change in too many banks and all, Mass App is it to die for retail or commercial for it. You don't get any better than having residential coming out to a spine which runs continuously through and is fed by many, many communities, connects to various important communities. It's a very important thing. You ask anybody who's a retailer or a commercial, they say, where do you want to be? I want to be on Mass App, of course. It's a developing thing, but it is in itself an incredible asset. So all of those three things form this part that's right there in our midst. And what I want to talk about, a few other things about the bones. And then I want to talk about the opportunities that really is part of a discussion here. It's not really conclusions, but on the next slide. So the scene, Battle Road Scenic, by the way, is right here, right? So it's Mass App. Excuse me, it goes way out, as most of you know, in both directions, but you kind of see what's going on here already. The imprint of this district just keeps kind of coming out. What can happen, and we're going to talk about this in a minute, what can happen is this can be just one piece of a whole historical idea that has to do not only with the Revolutionary War and so forth, but with the mills. So the next one. And then the key sites. So this is our zoning map. And just kind of the squint text tells you, I don't know, there's a lot of color in there. I don't know what all these colors are. I'm supposed to know. I'm not asking, but purple is industrial, I think. Can you focus on the map itself, the colored districts on the map? Try to get that. Are they any sharper? No, I see what you're saying. It may just get this type right, and maybe that wasn't done too clearly. So some of the key sites that we know about are, you know, the Mirac site, which is not shilling all the way here. Here's the office park. This is the area that extends, and then there's the colony park, which I think is full, but the bike path is here. You see the group run right through it? And as any in the group know, I mean, it's kind of wild. Sometimes you get these channels that run right through it. Sometimes it opens up. This is colors, and then the bike path is down on this side. I'm sorry, the road is here, and the bike path is up here. And then there's the Articula lumber site, which is an interesting site. There's some land there. And then this was, I think, I put it in a shoe or a cord. I don't know what the status of that is, but those are, that's part of an investigation that we're interested in. I know Joey and the planning group are looking at what's the status of all these sites. And then, you know, Brigham's was just developed, or Alta was right there. So next. And then this is really the cross streets and neighborhoods which I'm putting in the category of the bones, because it's just an amazing thing. Each one of, many of these connections have this green bridge, the railroad bridge, and they form little mini neighborhoods or little districts. You know, this is like this, our civic zone in here, which is a historic zone. There are little alleyways and water street and court street and all that, facing the civic area. Then it moves into the high school, row feeding into Dudley, feeding out to Gravel, which is an interesting connection. I want to talk about it a little bit later. Moving across and into the Myrack site is a historical area. Don't forget, I don't want to forget your neighborhood, Ryder and Forest area kind of thing. And then it takes you right into Schwann Middle, into the Goldstone area, Park Avenue is running through here, and then this site, we're going to talk about a bit of it today. But the identity of all the little neighborhoods and the actual cross streets are a real kind of part of the asset of this thing, which could become an opportunity. So, those are all the kind of things we've already got. This is right in front of us. So, it really, I'm excited sometimes just to see what we really have in the middle of it. Could this thing be one of the opportunities for this whole district, if we kind of consider it, because it's at the heart of our community, because it's bounded by these three great, or bounded by NASA and the BiPAN, that contains this potential fantastic part. What could the opportunities be? Excellent. Oh, another one on the cross streets. This really needs to be done up right, because the more you go into it, the more you see little main neighborhoods, little areas that are really, you know, are great and distinctive, I would say. Like, you know, it's completely, you know, it's the Mirac area, the Schwann, the Gold's Gym, looking toward the Ronald's and Cole, that's the top of it. That's gravel looking toward that potential intersection, which could be, you know, in Lyman, this is doubly connection with gravel, but there's part of the park over there, that's middle, and I didn't, I really wanted one of that Zurich area, but I didn't have that, so I just put that in, but that's right at the beginning of the, you know, Dallas, where we've been in this whole trail. So, the opportunities could be for these kinds of things, for mixed use, open space itself, for the middle Brooklyn area park, bike path improvements, Mass App commercial revitalization, historical tourism and sustainability. These are the things that might be actually making this in terms of real benefit and real value. And I don't think this is to be, I think it's more about uncovering and rediscovering and not about changing. In fact, I want to talk a little bit about it, it's the DNA of Arlington that's right there. All of the kind of, all of the things that are great about our town, our industry, the open space, the parks, the community, the unusual things we have, the unusual traits of Arlington are always there. So, just to kind of go through these things a little bit, the next. You know, what's mixed use, residential, office medical, professional, light manufacturers, like that's that, North Bend Street School down in the lower right, if we could have more, maybe that's in this category, but that's a pretty nice thing. There's retail restaurants, obviously, health wellness, health and wellness is a really interesting aspect of Arlington. And already in the middle district, that's where we're finding it. And then, you know, residential neighborhoods, but mixed use is kind of a boring word and dry. It's not, it's community and diversity. Mixed use is about combining the best things that makes want to be in an area. So it's not, you know, mixed use development just sounds so dry. I think it's about forming community as best as you possibly can by mixing some of this office, residential, educational uses, health uses. So that's an opportunity for this whole area, particularly because of the key sites. Develop it or think about a process whereby we can protect it for the best possible uses that we can think of as a town. Open space, this is about the Brook itself. And this was, this was actually, I think it was done by a graduate student at GSD, recognized this amazing asset. This report that she did has a lot of cool little ideas in it, I think. There's a lot of merits in the things she did, like a little restaurant that's next to the, it's next to some channel. Whatever it is, it's just lots of little distinctive things you can do that are really armative-based, not something you can do in outer space. These are things that have to do with us. And these are just pictures of, you know, look at that street that's right next to, that's no-brook drive leading to the high schools, and there's the brook running along. It's a beautiful street. Like, ah, that's just, that's the bones. Imagine having something like that. And that's just a pizza thing. It's like, you're in, I feel like I could be in New Hampshire or somewhere out there. So, I do feel like it shouldn't be, and jumping ahead a little bit, it shouldn't be like precious. This, the no-brook linear car is not necessarily a very precious thing. And neither were the mills when they were done. I mean, they just, they channelized them, they opened up, they changed things, they used them. So we should be using it too, in our own new way. We shouldn't, I don't think we have to be. It's not about making a perfect, you know, uncover every piece of it, and all that stuff. I don't think it's about that. It's finding out the moments. You know, that's that bridge that you come from Dudley. And you can go from Dudley right up to the bike path, but you're actually going between two buildings right now that's probably illegal to walk there. It's kind of a property, but then you go across, there's a big chain-link fence up behind, and you cross over here, and you have some tennis courts that lead into, into Grove. And I think that could be thought about a little bit about how that whole recreational zone works. That's our own two public, part of our public land. So, I think this is a bit important. Obviously, it can be the spoken point we're talking about, but a more relaxed alternative to the bike path. And I think a lot of people, I know I, if people are racing by at such high speed on that bike path, and to have a way to come off the bike path, and get through a pocket park, or even a beautiful cross street, see, understand your relationship to the Brook, and then maybe go back to the bike path, or out to NASA. So, another speed would be good to have for a public walking area, in addition to the bike path. The next one. And another opportunity is clearly bike path improvements. So, and this is an example of what we did, you know, that's called the Alta's Development. Now there was fragrance, and I'll have another slide on this later. Basically, as you develop, or as new things happen in the Mill District, part of their mission, or part of their requirement can be to make improvements to the bike path. As we got to gear, make connections through, generally, the mission of the Mill District can be to improve the bike path, as well as the Mill District. And then, Mass App commercial revitalization. So, this is kind of turning the idea of the neighborhoods and sub districts into wouldn't this be a way to help various nodes along Mass App? Like, for instance, this one is, this is blurry to you as it is, but you can probably get the picture, this is a view of Brattle, and that's the triple A, you know, the grocery store with the lunch place, and there's this kind of Brattle Street, whatever it's called, it's like a little round square out of square, thank you. If you look the opposite side, you see one of the green bridges, and if you come off the bike path, and if you go into this, when you come off the bike path, you go by, so the bike path up here, I combine, this is a big, this is a little piece of public land in there. So, this is this connection right here, and there's a little piece of public land part of the Millbrook linear park, it's really nice, it's got a parking lot right next to it, and there's a brick running through it, and then it goes underground at some point, soon as there's the tiniest little house in Arlington is right there, and so what it owns, and so, how could you connect the bike path to Mass App so that you could say, okay, I don't have a great little car for you, or a breakfast or whatever, and then you're back on the bike path, you could be aware of that as you are traveling along this bike path, and the place in which you stop, and you go down, you don't just sit on it like an expressway, and then there's a reason to do that, because you come through, you understand and you go and you get something to eat, and you come back, so maybe it's a way to kind of create little mini nodes and really help the commercial on Mass App, and then reinforce the special character of all these individual neighborhoods by letting them be what they want to be within all these cross streets, as well as the two ends, so this is not any kind of commercial replacement for our major nodes, not at all. It's a very different kind of lower-scale development with little nodes along the way. And then the opportunity for this normal tourism, so again, not just down the road, but the middle district, you got to come to Arlington, you got to come to that stretch of the bike path, you got to check this out, because you really learn all about the cultural times of our history. Not just the battle road, you get all of that kind of stuff, so you get the mills, and it's amazing what, this is the high school that was covered over, Cutters Pond, and then all of these were peppermint mills, the last one still remaining, I guess. So you get, you know, why can't we be a little bit better than the select men that have been talking about quite a bit for quite a few years, is how can we take our job of the history of the Revolutionary War, and which is very rich, and let that be an asset to Arlington, just maybe just in terms of bringing people in to see what we've got. Not the way Lexington does it, but maybe kind of our greater version would be a really cool thing to do. There's a growth leading up to mill. So, multi-faceted historical district. Like, you gotta go there, and you gotta get off, and I've got a great restaurant that you need to go to when you're there. So then the next one. And then sustainability, which is, you know, it's catch on board in a certain way these days, but it means as much about community and university, the way I know the master planers in the room will know that, you know, lead and D in the development is now right in the basis of lead, which is analyzing how neighborhoods work, how cities work, how transit works, and so forth, how bicycles work, how bicycles, paths can contribute, and so forth. And this seems like an opportunity for Arlington to be putting those things up front in a special district, which is this old district. These are the types of guidelines that we certainly want, and they're already coming into place, and whether we like it or not, they're coming into place. Our water quality, you know, it's already in the codes, but wouldn't it be interesting to really see if we could stop and say the first inch of water in rainfall is the one that contributes the most to overflow and potential hazards of mixing with sewer, which we've got over on the Cambridge line. So all our codes now are trying to reduce runoff, so that we reduce the load and runoff into streams and brooks and lakes. So if we could make that part even more stringent and more of a mission to have less permeable paving and so forth, so that we could really think about helping the water quality of the brook, which is, by the way, feeding right into Mystic Lake, which feeds into the whole channel system, so this is a whole watershed issue. You know, education just about as a lead point, for instance, as a sustainable point, just learning about energy use, about history, is part of sustainability. But I really would highlight this whole thing. If you can, and this is in the category of neighborhood development and health-oriented development, which is, I think, hearing a lot about it these days in my business, how people are tracking the health aspects of the community. It just comes down to, you know, exercising, having parks, but also having a mixed community. And that means, kind of, we have an elderly community in our old town, and why are we, I think, for myself, I would rather not go out to some community, and this is just me speaking. I'd like to be in my own town and be able to be in the action. So kind of the mixing of old as one of the roles of this sustainable idea at a walkable area. So elderly people don't have to get run over the bike path by the skaters. They can be part of this part network. But mixing old and young and so forth, all in as we develop this, it would be a very big, kind of, sustainable mission that is part of our own town. It's part of what we probably want to do. So the next one. And that kind of, this is, I think, toward the end, finally, I put this in here because I kept worrying that, you know, everyone's looking at this and saying, oh, well, this is a track scroll from the two nodes. I don't think that's the idea at all. It's a very different kind of a zone that's not like Arlington Center or like Arlington Heights. It's not going to be the, I don't think, very, very dense development, and it has to be tuned very well to respect to enhance Mass Ave, to respect and improve the brook, to help connection to the bike path, to, you know, augment our public space. It's a connector so that you could start to feel that, wow, there's something, you know, there's a way to get from here to there, there's something happening in between this thing. That's very cool. And the next one. These are maybe a little bit old. I know the planning department working on things that we could look at, obviously, land ownership. This is all the stuff that's part of the master plan, potentially. Business community legacy projects is something I know we see in our business where somebody really wants to turn over a piece of land if it's used in a very community, you know, beneficial way. Student urban design studies, I threw some of this stuff in. This is grants for TOD health and bicycle and master planning, maybe that could be possible if we can identify this as a very important district in our town. And the overlay mission, because at that time we were very caught on overlay, and I know that you guys are going to be, as the master planning group, we're going to be talking about various different devices that could be used. And then lastly, that's just the potential right out of the zoning mission which talks about improving the bike path mixed use and so forth, all the things I've been talking about. Next. And this is just showing, you know, this is not bad. Maybe we wouldn't want this to be quite so dense, but if you think about this as a whole I'm talking about 22 mill mill drive. This is Mill Street. This is the road running through. It's called Alta. I don't know if this is a very old picture, but it may be a rendering from when they started. This is Shack's bike path. But this contains a medical office building retail, and they put retail here which was bigger, more residential. They improved the bike path. We insisted that they have this public way through which is stairs and ramps, and next they improved the pocket part which is this one which is right on the brook that has really cool little brookscapes in it right in here. And then eventually it ends up right under the high school plan. So they did some of the things that are potentially in the mission of potentially the old history. It doesn't go all the way through. I would love to see a set of stairs that goes up to the back where I was trying to go through here. But, you know, you come out here and you go like this. So they kind of got some of the ideas that could come out of a mixed use developer which includes health residential and retail. They did all those things to some extent, and I think that's the kind of thing that we could do better and maybe have a say in this kind of density and so forth. I think one of the things that we've always talked about in the ARB is our industrial or our business properties. We don't want to let that drop down to the point where this just gets to be another re-residential strip. That could be a real missed opportunity for this very distinctive part of our mission. And then the next one is just kind of summarizing you know I use these kind of buzzwords but, you know, uncover we discover dance and events. Like a new art event that should be part of this, but it's also just finding what we've got. I think that there's no surprise of no coincidence that this is here. This is right where kind of, I can think about it as a v-shape where the hill comes up and up on the other side and this is where everything happened. The whole commerce and life of Arlington happened right there. Not just there, other parts, but this is such a distinctively bordered area that it seems like that could be rediscovered by us in a different way. And that's really the brief talk about the Mill District. I have a little flyover that I did in Google which is kind of fun if you want to see it. Do you have time? You're really giving me way too much time, Mike. This is uncalled for. They made it sound like it was going to be much longer. That's right, they cut me down deep. So this is from Google that I'm looking at a whole district. So now you're looking down over Route 68 up the light trail, the green line. This isn't like that. Yeah, yes, yes. Yeah, you sometimes see it pretty much. It works its way up to the there's that civic area probably not historic civic area leading up to Mill and that's looking across from the Mill Road looking back toward Mill. That's just the long end area that you went straight into high school. That picture is just fantastic. It's just a beautiful street. Who needs a park? You have a street like that. It's just as good. And then this is the beginning, this is that Grove, here's our plan, I mean the building apartment. And then Dudley, barbecue barn. This is the tennis courts. And this is where I'm saying there's that bridge right in that green zone. And you can get through or you could get through and establish a pathway from the bike path maybe this way, maybe that way and then mark it like these cross streets can literally be marked not only on the bike path but on the signage and say historical link to so and so Mill whatever that happened there. I mean I could even see these cross streets being that's a color. Concrete. At sign. Or the lights at the street or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think there isn't exactly someone covering it, someone just making people aware of it. This is Grove, straight down a green bridge which is kind of our little marker. And the brook is running right through here and you stand here it's a bizarre thing and something because you just hear this brook running and you have no idea that it's there and you kind of pick through the bushes just like what is going on it's just amazing things right behind you and then there's a channel to the right that I think I have a picture of here that leads right down and into the high school, under the high school field. That's that bridge 10 sports kind of in the distance. We see that town-owned land that is just not much to fix that's Dudley Street there so that park is kind of to the left. So then you move on Dudley to I guess that is Brattles and then you move into the whole myragg in the middle of the middle zone that's Brattles the one I showed you before No, this is Brattles This is kind of a bit of a reeking I took a tense point into that and this is a little bit of a double one that's that potential kind of node there and then you go forward and now you get into this whole myragg area it's a very industrial you know, whole middle field to this whole thing some of the growth around here is really the channel why so maybe maybe it stays that way in this area but let's say you build residential or office around here you incorporate something about the growth into it even without a cover that's the channel that's it obviously interesting businesses in there there's that stack this is not a great connection but could be it's just kind of so then moving north this is your neighborhood but here there's a great place to come off the bike path it kind of gets leveled here and that's where the connection up to Schwann is in the battle of the rocks leading up into Schwann for the locks I think this is a very underwhelming part of our history in the way it's here and I don't know I think we could make something with a whole connection could be about the foot of the rocks and the Schwann rather than just kind of by the way you gotta buy it and I don't think this necessarily has to be you know, make it a construction it could be signage it could be just the way we this is right around Schwann it goes up and it actually goes under a residential building which is really strange it just ends and it crosses under see that guy right there it goes under that crosses up here and now it's over here and now you're looking toward Arlington Coal and this is a really a big opportunity here because you've got a big stretch of the road could be widened here this is also a very underwhelming connection out to the bike path and it's kind of skipping a little far ahead as it's going on the way to the end but I do think along the area of gold we've got a lot of opportunity for broken glades that's it thank you Eddie thank you very much any questions or any other problems for Eddie I think it's spectacular I don't know I mean it's really for me for anybody that's been up in there on that car or it has not that I don't know exactly what it turns into or what the process is I think there's lots of options and it's obviously a ton of work to do on that path but it strikes me that a sort of heritage car or of some sort that doesn't compete with the bike trail it doesn't compete with the mass app it just really forces them and it's a center and it's part of the sort of when you look at the mass machine for Arlington it's about transformation it's about where Arlington has been and how you use that to get to where we've been going and it's just it's the feeling that part of it is great and the work is there we need to be rediscovered and I don't know if there's some data that you need to do I think there's a lot you've got to do to catch people it's still it's still not clear what is this place why is it what's different about what's inside that shape what's outside the shape what's explaining how it's different so I think that's a just the sort of branding it's a big challenge but I think it's absolutely right I think you're right about it it's not an edge the way it's shown here mass app is an edge but it's not an edge it's both sides of both and I think those connections through are really key so that it's not an insulated thing but I just want to remember I think the important part of one of the reasons we ask both for this joint meeting as well as to have Andy present is obviously you've heard lots of points of view lots of different input along the way and we actually felt pretty strongly that it's nice to think of this I'm going to use the wrong word here because I'm not thinking about it in terms of zoning but what is there that could be taking advantage of as you're going through all your different exercises and thought processes and everything along the way so that's why we felt it was important for you folks to hear was that the list of the landowners? no no I haven't made those connections yet but I think it would be interesting to talk to some of the people about it I don't know how to start doing that the National Plan might be a real nice time to reach out for exactly that I think that's one of the thoughts is boy that's a thing we're all going to start at least talking to people and talking about it we're sharing different thoughts about different places as part of our study report that we did look into the ownership patterns quite a bit and knew that ultimately would become a issue because it's really very nice I think it's roughly 30-35% of the space along the road is town alone the various parks and town properties and then there's a pretty big percent that's industrial or commercial business owners but there's also a lot of small residential lots that back up to broken places certain areas, certain neighborhoods so there's not areas that are going to be very difficult small homeowners to make any access to the road exactly where they're back there but those are supposed to be distinct, discrete areas and I think like you mentioned where you're small to potentially the roads there are certain bigger areas that have other opportunities and potential that would be the focus primarily and then using the town properties like Grislyr for the field Wellington Park even the high school area to potentially jump start to jump start to get some of the pieces some of the connections started to be made I think that was a real great point that Andy made we're not talking about a big ban here we're talking about trying to influence decisions as they're made along that road and sort of connect to the plan as a perfect place to try to influence those decisions as they're made I think that the road that people get that's why everybody says that they don't understand that they're talking about a district that they really get in the road that's why I would suggest we could call it the middle road district not just the belt district I don't know but because then the road identifies you know a different art essentially the possible one of the steps that comes our way so on your agenda on the development board is this now your priority project? no I'm going to say something no, it's not I think we've tried to let you folks do your work and we think you're doing a great job doing all of that input and everything else and we know certainly you had access to the the study and that type of thing as well maybe you brought that up to our attention earlier so we thought it was good for you to hear that but I wouldn't say that it's any more or less important than anything else I will say that we think it's an opportunity it might be one of the best opportunities for the time but I would say it's our it's what we're what we're at for anything else we just want to point out that we think that it's it's a nice opportunity for the town to influence and develop we want you to consider it in the master the potential in maybe in a different way than we're seeing here possibly you know because of what's been considering our channel and and in fact just to build on that a little bit and for all reasons that Andy talked about this is an important district that we think about it but it also happens to have several large parcels of the property which are privately owned I don't think that's going to have control but what we do around that influences how this is the property we have developed so what's the future of the mine for for those that don't know the larger military and the larger parcels the goldfish and the parcel again it's not something that we can control correctly but what we do around it what we should better it as an impact on how it gets developed is before I worked in Ireland tonight I worked with a ton of Waterton there was a piece I chunked with a Charles River that was completely inaccessible it was all industrial and a lot of abandoned pieces there and through zoning they allowed change of use for the special permit and then sort of negotiated every time a property change passed it just take a little piece of it and they put a habit and it felt stupid at the beginning because it felt like just connected pieces and I worked there quite a bit of it came together it was sort of like what the more did the mill the break-ups got re-making the connection to the bike path from high school you know, they just missed a little piece from their development work it's not a whole rail trail systems been built for the last 25, 30 years they keep finding little pieces and then they're connecting them together so this is like you need to have a vision first to know where you want to head those visions put into the master plan and then we can keep checking the way just want to comment on the presentation it was wonderful this district strikes me as a true mixed use district where you have industrial uses office uses, residential uses open space uses all in one corridor and there isn't any other place in Arlington that really has everything together that's what makes it so interesting and valuable I believe the graphic you showed with the Google almost be interesting to do a before and after of the Brigham site where you can see the context and making those connections and maybe that's something we as the committee have to talk about we've talked about urban design and I believe this area more than any other part of Arlington really needs an urban design study because do you want more of what the Brigham site was in terms of a mixed use making those connections of those large parcels and if we don't really study that reliable I end up with something that is not in the best interest of the town doesn't preserve the brook doesn't make it interesting the other thing too I think that needs to be studied of the connections to Summer Street you've got some major developments with the Sims Hospital site and there are potential development sites along Summer Street as well that need to be accessible to this district as well I think Summer Street is something that we really need to look at and Lowell Street as well because that that really is a border as well if you do a development or a smaller for all vision then I think everybody wins I mean I can see some really inventive kinds of mixed use housing industrial or overnight industrial this is so much better than we thought we could ever do because people know about it you've got to go instead of oh yeah this is another Lowell then it's okay but it's not really adding to the community I really think that for instance the old and young aspect one of the things that we see a lot in our development in that firm when we think about that the developers are thinking about our children they're just coming out of college they're going to go into the workforce they're going to live whatever it is they have children in five years people are trending toward wanting to be near transit they want to be in a community feeling where there's exercise definitely a lot of exercise they're already used to jogging all sorts of stuff they want a sense of community we think I hear this is really important so they want access to the city these are kind of like all things about Arlington already but this area could be where it could help that come along so that you have seniors and young people and all kind of mixing I think that would be the biggest sustainable thing that I could imagine and again that's not like Arlington Center it's a whole other meeting we could have this is a different kind of mix to use it's a smaller scale I think I think that the need to sell this to use a term like that but to the community to the landowners to the constituents is going to be a product the success of it will be a product of how well you communicate your analysis of this piece of property, why it's different and how that turns into a vision even if it's preliminary even if you force yourself to get out in front of the actual process for the vision when you use the term for instance district that doesn't resonate for me there's actually three linear and I love the DNA though these are really three linear strands of DNA it's MASSAP it's what was a rail line here in the old days as was the water they're they're sort of flowing along next to each other in such a locketed way there I think that there's like it's imagable just that it's imagable and that's the heritage of Arlington and MASSAP, the rail and the mills and so the idea that being a district I think is wrong I think it's something more connected to a district it should the words you use imply that it's I can't really consider trying to think of the right word but I can it's hard or it's like a organic it's almost organic it's a heart in a way I didn't come up with the right word but I think that to get people excited you have to really say this is a special area because and explain why and there are really reasons I mean it's not just that you have to look for the reasons that are right there and then kind of push the vision if a little bit aren't not just like it could be this or it could be this but we think it's we think it's a marvelous inherited and scarred and it's going to be has these opportunities and just just get out ahead of the process with the vision the vision will evolve anyway but it will be something that hooks people because I think it's like you found something that everybody passes your day and didn't quite know it was there that was what Bruce was saying it's like the highlight yes, not the present it's not physically like the highlight it was this undiscovered thing that was right there it used it for something completely different so it's a undiscovered feeling and it's an area that's ready to evolve right it is yes, I'm going to realize some more yeah even though it's not a high priority item with the pre-development authority I think it ought to be that I have a special place in the master plan simply because it's a very important organizing concept for actions that can be taken relevant to it even though they're small on somebody incremental and a little bit problematic in terms of how the real estate is developed because that's a market that's the real American consideration but as Danby points out there are some major properties for example you've lost two of the dealerships already along that side that have been converted to what the real estate people like to call highest and best use and that's going to continue to happen mainly because the underlying property just becomes so bad and again it's something that can be featured in the master plan with illustrations of what that property might be like in the future I know we've had discussions in the middle of a book committee when we were working on this just how much we ought to envision for some of the properties along and consensus with you really didn't want to push the owners too far away from the town which is quite but the master plan is an ideal place to do something like that just to show a vision of what the owner might be like in a conceptual way and how it might incorporate the knowledge and benefit the owners and please don't take it the wrong way when I said it wasn't our highest priority I think so often when the board were doing so much blocking exactly on the day-to-day issues that are going on to some extent I don't hear Danby talk about that they've got to know and think about it as ourselves because we seldom get the chance through all the hearings and everything else to kind of think in the bigger picture and I think we know that that's what you're doing and for that reason you're our eyes and ears with respect to that and just want to make sure that something that has been resonated with us that you would at least hear it and hopefully it resonates with you as well as you go ahead and go through the process another point in selling it because that's another function of master planning you've got to convince people that this is which way from the time it's essentially a local facility and as opposed to the bike path which is essentially a region of usefulness and combined with the bike path that presents all these opportunities for walking loops and connections to businesses and whatever but people lovely here master plan this is something for the time we really need the support points that I brought up in the community was that as a model as a general model it was a town broke and flooded it's similar like similar water volumes it goes right through the center and it's been very nicely developed they have the opportunity there to do a nature trail along most of you don't have that here parts of what she did but it's if people want to see something that's built on the ground some and there may be other examples a town break and it contributes to their tourism which is quite important I think the scene this study was done in 1976 but I don't know how many other people have seen it and I only bring that up because back then one of the things that really struck me was some envisioning that was done in no in the heights there was this vision of I think what we've done and where we're at now is we've kind of turned our back to the growth in the 76 study looked at turning to the growth in the heights it was a vision of businesses and restaurants where the restaurants go out so that they're seating and you don't change the character of what's there now but you transition to opening that up in a different way and recognizing that the growth is there and I just thought that that study being so long ago is still resonating to really really well so I don't know if everybody has had a chance to look at that but I think you should look at that in 76 study just that I think it really is a little shift in focus look toward the growth instead everything now has got back doors all the industry, everything's channelized the growth has been ignored but that's what really resonated with me was just that let's turn and look at this that's something that you want to bring forward and as you do that what is excited, necessarily changes but it's enhanced and that's I think one of the ways to sell some of the thought of doing this is you know turning lines, don't completely destroy what's there we're not talking about destruction we're not talking about enhancement and just kind of looking into the middle, into the water into the growth I don't know who still has access to that study but I do think it's worth looking at the data is the kind of brain of like looking at sites seeing how they work that's what I was saying the student competition kind of sponsored them go along with it I think I know the data is that you come across that fruit and that is dexter kind of and you look at the growth of the tree and you turn it directly that's really a good way to look at it is you turn it before the growth and see what's passing out rather than covering it up and lining it and using it as part of the growth of the tree that's also why I think the branding idea using the growth is kind of an icon of the focus so the people who are looking at it are not covering up at all or they like it so it's possible to look at it as an example just an interesting point I don't want to leave it there leave it there about the quarter of 1976 she's become a landscape architect from Atlanta and she is most recently working on the Los Angeles River which some of you plan and they know it's a major project in Los Angeles to the big life and clean up that river so she's taken this asset to the GST and now she's thinking of Los Angeles she's so excited to marry that somebody on the same scale but it's an interesting point maybe other things we could look at in other examples like Plymouth and San Fe and there's lots of different towns and cities that have taken advantage of growth through their different areas but I think there's lots of but I have to push back on a little bit but I think that between the old rail line and between that and that is an area that is I think you said it kind of captures the old culture of the scale out of the kind of uses in fact that it hasn't become precious in fact I love the idea of back doors one of the things I love about the bike trail is riding along back doors I just love that I think it's so much more interesting than riding along the front doors this is kind of a back door district it's like lifting up the hood seeing what this place is actually I think a lot of the uses of the way that they could transform into maybe cultural uses you know heritage kind of places is every bit is important and in fact if you ignore them you won't be successful as the people often call it a creek but you know I think they're just both of them the water elements is critical but I think if you just focus on that and don't see the nature of this district the open spaces incredible the bike trails incredible even the backs of Mass Hour just so it's interesting to see those backs I don't know I think it's a unique place in the town in a lot of ways beyond sounds like a lot to think about which is nice that was the idea thank you very much thank you thank you just for a quick master plan update I'm going to pass around a timeline of important key dates that are coming up as I do I'll describe the next six months are going to be very intense activity for the Mathematical Education Committee the consultant team has prepared baseline reports the comment period for those baseline reports closes this Friday then a series of working papers starts to come out and see the columns the dates on the left each month starting December 30th we'll get a working paper this is where issues will be identified with each of the master plan elements a presentation will be made on the working paper at the master plan advisory committee meeting the comment period will open the staff will provide information to the public on how they can comment on the working papers each month there will be a deadline so the commentary will be open for about 30 days and that goes all the way through May I'm not quite sure where the historical working paper is but be sure that it will be in this schedule in June there will be a visual department survey and this ties into the comments about the need to have some type of urban design exercise or urban design guidelines in the master plan so I'm looking forward to that I think that will be very interesting process the exact way in which we're going to get input on the visual department survey is yet to be determined but that's in June and then in July the committee will work really hard to consolidate all the comments received on the paper the committee will have to make some decisions and show some leadership and make some choices and they won't necessarily be agreement across the board even with the committee but that's when the real hard work of the committee will start so the paper the master plan will then be written based on those recommendations it's expected to be done at the end of 2014 and then going to the Rebellion Board for approval to tell me in 2015 reimbursement do any questions on the handout? any questions on the master plan? Rebellion Board, we'll take that in a minute. coming back into order here the next item on the agenda thank you very much it was a great presentation really appreciate it I think most importantly they got people thinking a lot which is nice next on our agenda is Arlington 360 update and some other goings on the first thing I'd like to mention on that is you shouldn't receive a matrix that fully HOAC helped create with LDA and special climate requirements so with respect to that matrix thought process is staff will take the matrix and start to move through it and check off boxes as they determine and deliver so if anyone's got any comments I'm happy to talk about it I don't think that the notion wasn't to go through that matrix tonight on any particular level I think what we will do is we've got a meeting I think tentatively scheduled for January 6th and at that meeting actually is probably going to be a couple things that I mentioned one is hopefully will be in a position to start going through this in a more meaningful way as far as the matrix of requirements on both the LDA and the special climate so that's the first thing on Arlington 360 different topic for that January 6th meeting is that I would expect us to be discussing other articles for the medical marijuana treatment centers if I've got that definition correct and possibly a warrant article with respect to zoning and use and the other one would be with respect to possibly signage for such dispensaries the thing that I'm going to point out is this is for the warrant article so it's the usually very broad topical two sentence article that goes into the warrant itself not the recommendation of the board or any of the different regs rezoning by laws that we would expect to be going through we want to make sure that whatever the warrant article is but I think that the notion is is that and I think it's the right one is the redevelopment board should be putting those warrant articles into the warrant this year as they have to do with zoning they should come from us so I would expect that to happen on the January 6th meeting as well I'm sure we've got anything else we're going to do we have a list of articles there we're just going to talk about one we'll have some draft language so but literally it's that the great book that comes out that's what we're talking about not the recommendations themselves so I have a question on each of these first with the Arlington 360 the matrices you had sent out three attachments and two of them very very similar they were exactly the same one was the spreadsheet they were the same one was if you wanted to manipulate something so I sent out the three yesterday easier so on the spreadsheet it's two workbooks in the same spreadsheet there's two tabs at the bottom just go back and forth between the two I should have meant to put that as you know I just wanted to send the email out no comment, no anything else unfortunately what that tends to do is I don't think I'm explaining exactly what I'm sending out so with respect to that if you go into the spreadsheet the notion there was if you'd like to manipulate itself go in, write it in the PDF was just easier for everyone to print so I did a PDF of each of them just so you could print it in fact if you've got any comments on the matrix or any matrices please get them over to Carol and we'll have her collect and make sure that they make it into staff as staff goes through the different requirements that they take into consideration all the different comments that come back that's appropriate I think I do have a question on the matrix when you're done my other question was on the warrant article and last year we had a warrant article on medical marijuana dispensaries that we collected on because of the moratorium so Carol do you know if there's been any further thought by the group that had been out of this party? we actually met this morning and I think people are thinking about it and I think we've got a timeline that doing the warrant articles on the sex would help that group move forward and make some of the recommendations that we want to make along the way so I just had a question when I'm looking at this matrix so I understand how the timing part works yeah so on the timing I would not spend a lot of time on the timing that was more of a note for staff as they're going through as far as what you know Foley may have considered being the timing of certain things just for what the columns mean the status something is where it is right now and is substantial completion where it needs to be the two columns on the right substantial completion and final CEO might be short of the difference between the two so there's some conversations that still need to go on with Foley and that type of thing but I think the important part is status is for the most part blank there's a few notes in there just as reminders for both staff and us as far as maybe things that have happened along the way really where we would expect staff with and I'm sure Carol's going to pull maybe members of this board into those discussions as far as certainly the different landscape and everything else that you've been involved with I'm sure Carol's going to want to hear from you as far as okay has this been done, has this been done and that type of thing obviously law is going to be hugely involved with all the traffic mitigation and all those types of things so we'll be calling on different folks for help with these different things the status is more of just a block for them to keep notes as to where we're at you know I'd like every single one to have a complete next to it in the status column so it doesn't necessarily need like say for the first item all utilities shall be on the ground because there's an X in substantial completion and final CEO what are those X's that's supposed to mean that they should be done for those times so it should be done for substantial completion and for final CEO for final CEO certificate of optimism yes so if there's an X and only one of those that really only needed to be done for substantial completion and I'll be honest with you there was another column called TCO in there but we did away with that so I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to the X's right now in fact you may see those two columns disappear because frankly everything needs to be done for when we talk so the columns are a little bit meaningless other than those things that aren't and then we better discuss when they need to be done when we talk we're going to be talking about final CEO yeah I think that's what they're going to build on not temporary anymore, not substantial complete I mean they're going to be substantial we're talking about the completion of the project is where we're getting to so where we're left I mean where the where it gets a little there are different things that are owed at the end of the residential and at the end of the assisted living so there's this kind of in between because we've broken the project in the two pieces now there isn't that finalization that there was before as far as some of those things are concerned so it's really about so if there is some kind of like I said don't pay too much attention I think the more important part is the inventory is there we can go through figure out what has been done and for those things that haven't been done is it because of the assisted living and therefore it stays open until that's done is it because of this that or the other I think those are the ones we have the discussion about and that we're comfortable with where we are at that time regardless of whether it's done or not done so that makes some sense so that's the update with respect to the matrix went a little off topic on the January 6th but it just kind of came up at that point the other things that have happened up at the park Christine you've been involved more than I have but I've seen the traffic a little bit is there's been a lot of discussions about parking still parking around the parks and here has been and maybe I'll let Carol and Christine talk about it but with respect to the MBTA bus and the stop for the MBTA bus and all the requirements that go into that on that site because of the slope because of the ADA requirements and everything else that Laura, I think Laura worked on it for our good staff and the MBTA probably over the last year trying to get the bus stop to come there right to resume service so they had a plan that they were sending around by email just recently about all the different locations that they looked at potential locations for the bus stop none of them actually met MBTA's requirements for slope because of where we are and everything else some of them were better than others as far as accessibility some of them were in the way of some of the private entrances so they weren't necessarily maybe a good combination so the site that they ended up picking the MBTA was amenable to was right in front of the park the Upper Vista Park so if you remember where the parking is of the Upper Vista Park and this is the road right here we just brought this in case we wanted to talk about it this is the Vista circle part up here so what ended up happening this is where the curb line was they've expanded a little bit here so that they could have another accessible space here and this is now paving it has to be a certain length for the bus to stop the bus needs 40 feet so this ended up being 37 feet long right here how is the bus getting just over it's just on the road this is sidewalk when I first said it I thought it was a pullover also but it's not a pullover actually it's a sidewalk so what it did was it took a little bit of space out of the park and encroached a little bit on the park a little bit on the conservation area but it's a public benefit it's a public asset and it's a good spot for the bus there's no neighborhood resistance it's actually a neighborhood supported on the FM it was felt by most of us that it makes the most sense because another location would have been much too private and farther from the assisted living where some people are going to be coming to work coming on the MBTA bus to work this also having it closer to the two parks reinforces that the parks are public it's unfortunate that it has to be located within the boundary of the CR but I think it's better in many respects than to draw the line to exclude the bus stop from the CR it's good to have it in there it's good to have it in there it's preferable to within the CR it adds a little bit of confusion I guess to the CR but not really some parts need to be rewritten I think it's working really hard the alert system went up because it's going to change parts of the CR not that it was bad but it's another change to have green, pervious surface removed is an ideal but it's a small area and the benefit that it's providing is so great and it needs to be somewhere this is a good spot looking at all the other locations you really have to go walk down you too we have to walk back up to get the bus but no matter where you are you have to walk down to summer to get the bus that's where the bus for you is so we could leave you off here and you can walk downhill and then you can walk downhill to get it if you don't want to walk up I believe that's right because this is the one way service which I always find a little hard to understand but you can't get on a loop back you only get off you only get off right and so the on is down on summer street and yes which is okay because it's downhill I mean it's far preferable to have to walk uphill to get your bus so you can't get on the bus here you can only get off so it's odd isn't it and why is it different the MBTA did it because of past practice with their ridership counts okay but isn't that so if the ridership counts change will they change? maybe ridership counts but it might have been based on the rider's use or the route itself I think that they will consider the new use but over time then possibly yeah it's just surprising I mean I can see where a hospital would probably be it is demand driven usually you know whether you get a benches demand driven yeah just have people start I can imagine 30 or 40 people going and riding where what route does the bus take does it go all the way through the circle to no but it does go all the way around so it goes through the whole circle but it doesn't go anywhere else right no one stops people will see it where is it going to go where does it end up what's it's route from where I don't know I can't tell you exactly is it the 67 bus I don't want to mislead you I saw somewhere that it was the 67 bus so if it is you can look up the schedule if you really want to know I can get information on what route it is what route number and where whether it goes to LA so that was one thing that's kind of they're pouring concrete if they haven't already there's something before December 31st there was a deadline otherwise the MDT was going to come here so I don't know they were able to do it maybe because it's weather they're pouring this concrete yeah they're probably putting an assignment and there's going to be a bike around here too that's a bus stop for the view it is there may be more landscaping that we can add in the spring too but I was thinking you can keep it there it depends it keeps getting dropped off I think it keeps getting dropped off there's another tough day at work you won't wait there because the bus is coming we just won't let you on I want you to be back unless the bus again I think if we that keeps going by I don't know why we're going to look at some landscaping in the spring to enhancements because you're so close here and also maybe to still keep a tree here if you're working back he's still trying to figure out how to get on the bus I forgot something we thought the important thing was to resume service with what you have to get the foot in the door you have to get the foot in the door and it goes up there every morning how about now how about now can I get in now what if you don't get off can I get in now we are still we are still talking about parking up near the upper vista park as well there's been some doing and froing there's a need for affordable housing parking as well as park parking so we've been going back and forth on some of these things so as far as what's in the CR what is in the CR it's just a regular parking facility yes and no affordable housing has its own parking we wanted to make sure they had a parking spot whereas the market rates don't necessarily in doing so it's taken on some of the parking we never designated the number of spaces did we it's getting there did we at some point in the past this park gets 7 spaces 10 spaces we have the lower the lower is all public but this we never said although the spaces were all in the CR so we're just kind of trying to figure out and there were 10 there a few more than 10 right now there are 5 public and 2 what you call floaters although if you think about it because parks go from sun up to sun down they're all kind of floaters because overnight I don't know what would happen there but anyway but 5 are specifically for the upper vista park and 2 would be during the park's hours vista park and otherwise we visitor park out so that's there's still some discussions going on but that's where that's where we are so the visitors wouldn't be able to park there during the day correct that's to dawn exactly that's all I had around it in 360 camera that's plenty there's all of those there's a lot of phone calls they're still working on the on the CR to get the boundary down versus working on something with the boundary it's moving along and on the documents it's moving along Comcom has it right now for comments not the document itself but the marketing trailer site some of the final things we wanted there right and to make sure that's included and we can finalize that but also yeah that's been going back and forth to contract with children just to see different things that they wanted but Foley's been our lawyers have been responsible I haven't been working with our lawyers I think Brian is Jake and Brian might be working directly with them and with the agency no I know I've seen emails with Brian okay EEA yes EEA Closest has been talking with the EEA it seems that they're going to get away from some of their formatting issues we're having formatting issues which wasn't helping so I think we're trying to get a little bit more substantive I think we're trying to get a little bit more substantive with it so I think that's all we've got on Ellington 360 so please go through the majors if you've got any matrices got any comments or if you want to weigh in on any of them please just get your comments back to Carol we'll pass all of them through and also if you feel strongly about anything done, not done, anything that you feel you should want to weigh in on early rather than at that time please also contact Carol she'll be the keeper I will be nearby but on vacation starting tomorrow so I will take your comments on the matrices but I just want to let you know that in theory I would be and actually maybe that's a good segue over to the schedule because you know did I this one? was it on the carousel? do you have another? not a comment about this so we're trying to not need the Sam Nikes we've tried this in years past it's not that easy but they are they have their schedule set through April and it's typically the second and this schedule attempts to be the opposite so you see there are some months that don't where I can find meetings April is hard, it's town meeting we're going to have to meet but that one we're going to have to wing it we're going to have to see when the board needs to meet for statutory purposes and when we can work around the board meetings I know we haven't always in Arlington had a redevelopment board schedule prepared for the year but I think it's best for your schedules for your work schedules and your family schedules to be able to plan ahead so if you look at April and you think there is something we should try to avoid let me know but August, September and October are also tough I do think the most painful one isn't even April but January because because I'm a little concerned that and this is what I was going to bring up on this with the holidays with everything else and with how busy staff is I wonder whether the 6th is too soon to meet to meet to talk about the major matrices and to be able to go through them so that might be the only one where and the other problem we have is would be a great day it's Martin Luther so it's like a bad day it's 27th because the 27th would be the one to add that's the day that weren't closed so we need to meet beforehand because of the notion of getting the warrant articles in there so we might keep the 6th because of the 13th is a select so with our new policy why did we not meet with the select because it's difficult with Carol kind of going back and forth and jumping there's something that the board select wants to hear that the retirement board is doing or vice versa there's some philosophy that says you do want to meet on the same nights for different reasons but we've been doing that and I just think it would be advantageous for both boards to be able to have the liberty and freedom to be a little more in tune with each other you know why don't we do this can we do this can we plan for a meeting on the 6th and a meeting on the 13th and as we get closer maybe we can choose between the two I wouldn't say do both and the 27th no let's hold off on the 27th or the 13th and maybe we schedule that one so we still only have two meetings in January 6th and the 13th I've got a feeling the 13th is going to be a better day I get concerned only because I know the way it is through both year and business number one and number two the 13th just feels right I know a new policy is not to do it the same way but it's just difficult in the Monday holiday the new policy is maybe not perfect but it's the it's the goal but just the way the calendar falls and I think Mike's right because there's a tendency for not a lot of work to be done between Christmas and New Year's and the second is a Thursday and in order to get an agenda out it has to be out Thursday night right so it would be tight it could be very tight well I mean what we have scheduled for the 6th we have a couple of things already on that well they're scheduled for early January is more the point well I guess I would ask her how realistic is it that the agenda could be determined you know sufficiently in advance so you're not under that time crunch of having to do a meeting's worth of preparation within one day on Thursday the 7th it depends on whether we have an EDR and it depends on how an environmental we have a who's the antenna? do you have an antenna for various reasons it's not scheduled yet that doesn't go to the CBA the Council had a time that amendments to special permits or amendments to any action any formal action have to go back to the original permitting work this one in particular you probably want to hear because I've got some concerns with some past violations with the property owner and for that reason the wireless carrier doesn't have control over those things but these standards environmental design review standards you always check the compliance with zoning compliance with one of the standards is that everything has to be in order for this board to consider granted a permit okay all right so the 6th and the 13th if the matrices just to get back to answering your question we'll be getting feedback from the board and working on checking off which items to be addressed before the final certificate that's right that doesn't seem like a lot of work but well okay I mean if you don't think that filling out the boxes is going to be because you know it so well like the back of your hand you're just going to go through this last thing oh yep yep yep yep well the ones we won't be able to do anything about the ones staff will be able to do anything to make the laws be 60 further along the ones that they aren't there absolutely true no I just want to give you guys enough time to go through and say okay which one is this yeah okay let's just check you know the bond was paid you know this was done everything I had looked through it came in this morning and I was in meeting prison most of the morning but is it substantially different than past versions? no okay it's not it just needs to get some it's not a lot of new just a lot of items yeah it's just taking them off I'm not opposed to having the 6th and the 13th okay as long as people are wait did you say the 6th? I said the 6th and the 13th only so people keep their calendars open in case we can't make it to the 6th in time I can say oh wait I'm going to cancel one of them let me put it this way the 6th and the 13th but one of them will be canceled does that make sense? and then we've got a February 3rd and I think that's fine if we can get all the work we need to do done then at the 6th at that meeting oh you mean like the recommendations the language I don't even know which ones we're recommending the only thing we're doing or that we expect maybe some citizen petition but the only formal town sponsored work article right and so actually we should probably discuss that for a second so because I'm kind of glossing over it I think the kind of plan we had was unless something came up that during the master planning process we wouldn't put forth any zoning bylaw articles obviously anything that's citizen petition or other people bring to the table we have to take a look at and figure out whether we recommend or not so those aside the ones that we put forth as you all can read development board I've been under the I've been working under the assumption that because of the master plan other than things that come up that need addressing so the marijuana has come up we need to address it so that's the one we need to that's what we would probably work on we'll work on that with so that's what we're going to do on the 6th or the 13th just going to look at it we're going to approve it to put it into the warrant that's not the recommendation it's not anything other than the placeholder in the little grey book that says you know to see if the town will adopt a zoning for recommendations and he wants to vote on it right now oh right now just to put it into the warrant because we need the language we don't have it we definitely need the language it's just to be on the agenda that's the important one for the agenda but you know I mean all kidding aside technically we got to figure out believe it or not do we need an article about signage as well as zoning do we need to figure out exactly what's going to be effective what's going to be effective because the fear is you want to keep it broad enough so that nothing's out of scope when you're talking about it because it's here okay other than that we can keep this as is you're comfortable with it so we'll just have January 6th and January 13th one of those will be a flex and you know we'll certainly tell you by the second whether we're going to have one on the 16th or just on the 13th sorry the 6th or the 13th and just so people know that the first few months here February, March April and June at least line up on the same week as the master plan meetings so the Tuesday will be the A or B so if anybody wants to go to a master plan meeting it will be on the same week that means you have two days of meetings every week that's been happening what do you have? between that and my work schedule I've got like meetings all the time just knowing when they are is good I'll add a column for our purposes of when the master plan advisory is going to be well you just handed us this thing right yes but Joel pointed out to me that that's missing between the monthly deadline of the master plan advisory that's not a problem because we we might want to have some feedback on all of these sections if you haven't had feedback yet on the existing conditions this is going to take it to the next level maybe we should explain that how the walking papers work because that was kind of interesting when that was explained not everything in the master plan committee understood that so the existing conditions reports that have come out already are pretty much documenting what's existing and all these different categories the land use transportation so the working papers which are going to be next are not some independent segment now on each of those there's not going to be just a land use working paper a standalone working paper it's going to take the existing conditions and take it now take it now to the next level so that was issues and opportunities so say for land use in particular if we take that one this is our existing conditions for land use now we're going to look at some of the things that Andy was talking about today some of the opportunities for that land use some of the changes that we want to make some of the recommendations so the recommendations start to come in it's going to start to get into that in the next level right I don't think the working papers will go all the way to our conditions because that we'll never expect them to get from the communities but it'll start to imply they said it's not going to be just facts it's not going to be just facts like the existing conditions are it's going to start to create a a little bit of a things that they're going to point out that should be considered it's not going to give you a definite this way or that way but issues are identified they're going to start to make you think okay that sounds great so is this the latest yes no doesn't have data doesn't have data I've done that with some natural resources is that available on the website some of them might keep going they're all on the website see some of these have that must have been the first generation there's only been one generation this is the one you sent us but it's missing the land use and natural resources we can either get you a hard copy of the land use and natural resources or you can go to the website so we should comment on this yes if you want it by the 20th by the 20th by the 20th yes it was extended actually specifically for you and this is existing conditions so you may not have that many comments on this land use is an important element do you want me to send you a PDF of the if you have it handy just don't print it out we should all look at it you should already have what Andy has so I'll just get you the natural resources and land use we'll have the next iteration so to speak when the working paper comes out it'll blend some of this into the next right it'll start to weave it together I believe so and that's due December 30th what's due December 30th the land use working paper is expected so that's the first one that's the first one right oh I see that goes up it's not going to need a response to December 30th I don't think minutes, I think minutes is the next thing I don't think those may be going to be okay great I also have two other small items later I usually have except I'm not looking over your shoulder let's see it looks good great there's a few typos actually I have a major there yeah that's great so this is the other piece for the January 27th so as far as the meetings are concerned yet again because we need them to come back so that February 3rd meeting is probably where we should be asking Tech to come back February 3rd? yeah February 3rd because I think it's a March date that we're working against for using those mitigation funds that's right so I think we definitely want to make sure that we get them on the February 3rd agenda you don't want to move it up to January oh but we'll be losing the January 13th meeting right and I think they needed until that January 27th so I think February 3rd should work for them okay I think that will be enough time to plan for the mitigation if that's what we wanted you know and get the requested for the funds okay so any other comments? I moved to approve the minutes of December 2nd 2013 second any seconds? All in favor? I Carol you have a couple other things right Citizen Bank of the Heights wants to change their signage very slightly they are not increasing the size of the sign they're not changing the location or number of their signs Joey thought that there may have been a time a couple years ago where the board authorized the director to okay that type of sign change I can't remember if I did that with this board or a prior board used to do that but the question is Joey asked if this is something that could be approved administratively or if you want to see it the there's an internally illuminated standing sign and it will be internally illuminated they're reducing the size a little bit she thinks if you would like to have them go for an amendment they can do that it's the kind of thing where you might want to look at the application but it's I can certainly say that I'm fine but still if it's the same size if it's the same number similar sign type yeah the lighting isn't changing colors aren't changing colors aren't changing I would expect staff to be able not only people that better know I have a vague recollection that we might have done this those seem familiar I'll go back and look I think we tried to do it we tried to establish it as a oh okay we couldn't get that through but I think you know if Mike is the chairman and you talk it doesn't raise itself to the level it wasn't a unanimous decision or it didn't come before yes I think do you want to vote or do you want to vote to that regard or are you comfortable with us saying that I mean since you're convening then let's say but to vote to allow Mike and you to make the call is that much on this particular case that's fine that's fine folks are comfortable with that that's fine so I'll move that the chairman shall have the authority to review the proposed sign changes for the citizens bank location and the heights and authorize the director of planning to permit the alterations in her discretion second all in favor bye I'm not sure if I can say it again I'm sorry seconded please and he did and the other item is when you hear about the Millbrook District there are some public access points on private property over time I think some have been conferred by special permits they're lost to general awareness because they're not they can be lost to general awareness because the committee the board proposition that approved that special permit changes so I would like you to give thought in the future to requiring if public access permanent public access is a condition of the grant special permit I'd ask you to consider having it done as an easement because that you won't have to worry about the will or willpower or intention or culture of a future board in enforcing that or a future zoning enforcement officer it'll be in the deed how does that work? can we do that? we did it at no you didn't want to but the board was persuaded that having it as a special permit as a special permit that's recorded in the deed is sufficient but they didn't want an easement nobody wants an easement but if you're saying to this board that we're going to grant permanent access I think in practice you're kind of hoping it's going to go away after a while I think the applicant is hoping for future successor successors to title I think they're hoping that it will diminish unless you're making an easement unless you're making an easement and you're talking about which project any project any that come to you where this offering is saying as part of this great development it will provide public access or parking for this it will provide anything that they're coming to you and saying it's part of this development this environmental design review the big ones where you're going to hear that it'll be worth it because once every 50 years so practically speaking though I'm just trying to figure out the practicality of it can we say and we want it to be an easement or I mean how does I just don't understand that part of legally can we say where that comes from unless you're taking the easement by a domain it has to be a grant they have to grant at least have a conversation they can refuse it I guess okay but that's what I'm saying they can refuse it I think it's worth pushing or you could take an easement by a domain yeah I guess I mean the value with that not the complete fee but what's the difference in value if you're getting the same thing by special permit if you're giving up the same thing by special permit what's the difference in value if you put an easement in there do you see what I'm saying can you make the argument that you were ready to give it as a special part not only were you willing to but that was art attached to great amount value to give it or you think we're going to forget about that I think it's very interesting I'll be curious to see how it works I think it would be interesting also just to your experience in other communities use the easement approach I think if it's permanent I know it's used and we also have a land trust so you have a body that can control and enforce and monitor that maybe that's the public access special permit conditions right? Acidity you could if you choose a member of the board chose to do that and the board acted on that formally as a body you could do that but 12 years from now you might have a board that's not that important that's private property you could have a whole contract change so it's harder what it rests with the board or with the relationship between the board and his own enforcement officer if it's something that's monitoring annually I think that was more my question is who holds the easement now that you mention the land trust that makes more sense the town can't hold if it's going to be two of the town we do have a lot of private ways where the town can actually hold the easement for use of the way and the fee would still be in the private property owner but I think the other advantage just as you were talking Carol using the easement approach is you could have a private property owner 20 or 30 years down the line say this project doesn't make any sense to us anymore and we're going to redevelop it we're going to come in and go for a new special permit and forget about the whole plan and public access doesn't make any sense to us anymore so now you're dependent upon future generations of ARB members to recall or revive that interest that public interest in that development and how do you impose that on the owner the special permit runs with the land but what if for example the diagonal access from the park from the to the pocket park what if the redevelopment from the future developer can't proceed with that diagonal there might be another one there may also be but easements can also be relocated too so you know they can't be done away with but the burden property can say it doesn't make any sense to have that conduit going through this part of the property anymore or this access here so I'm just going to move it to a different place so you know we're not going I don't want to bring it up you know I think it's interesting necessarily feel obligated to solve it but I'll figure it out for the next time but if something does come to you let's try to remember the conversation and we can get council to advise I think that makes sense see if we can do it great well thank you there's one more motion oh Christine wants to make it oh I moved to a chair second all in favor