 Okay. Welcome to what the f is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean. Code pinks weekly YouTube program of hot news out of the region. We broadcast every Wednesday at 430pm Pacific 730pm Eastern on code pinks YouTube channel. Tonight you can also find us on my Facebook live stream and also on media Benjamin's live stream. And so let me introduce the theme tonight and then I want to we've got four fantastic speakers this evening I have to say they're all terrific friends of mine so I'm so pleased to have you all here, and, and they're all, you know, really really successful activists as well. So, let me just tell you a little bit about the theme tonight. The month of November is filled with elections across much of Central America and some of South America as well. Beckoning many of us to say that the hemisphere will look very different economically and politically at the end of the month versus how it looks this evening. We will witness elections on November 7 presidential elections in Nicaragua legislative elections in Argentina on November 14 presidential elections in Chile and regional and municipal elections in Venezuela on November 21. And then we will close the month November 28 presidential elections in Honduras. Today's broadcast is will focus on the upcoming elections in Nicaragua, Venezuela and Honduras, and we are going to discuss each in chronological order of the election so 721 and 28. And I will say again, we are most fortunate to be joined in conversation by three very knowledgeable representatives of each of the three countries we're going to be discussing. First, I want to introduce my co host. I want to introduce my co host and then before we start each segment of the program I will introduce the respective speakers to you so that it's clear who they are and what they're going to be talking about. My co host this evening is Fred Mills, and Fred is the Deputy Director of the Council on hemispheric affairs co host co h a dot org, and he's also professor of philosophy at Bowie State University. So welcome Fred. Thank you it's really an honor to be on this program sponsored by code pink, and to be with the panelists for each experts on the countries on which they're going to be speaking. I would like to provide a brief analysis of the context. And basically, what we're witnessing is a drive by Washington to recolonize Latin America. And part of the strategy is to impose ever more economic hardship and subvert democratic institutions of nations that are seeking alternatives to what's really a failed neoliberal economic model. It has implications for what's happening on the US Mexican border. It's directly these aggressions are directly related to the conditions which uproot thousands of the most vulnerable, who are now seeking refuge in third countries including the United States. As we said, despite the hardships that are imposed by this economic war against Venezuela. And now with the renaissance act we can anticipate against Nicaragua. And we know about the long standing embargo against Cuba. This aggressions being met with a determined Bolivarian movement for regional independence and integration. And really for the peoples of Latin America and the Caribbean. There's no turning back the historic tide of self determination, the effort of decolonization, and the advancement of a multipolar world. Some refer to this as a pink tide. But in essence, it's a movement for which there's no turning back. The presidential elections and parliamentary elections are going to happen soon in Nicaragua on the seventh regional and municipal elections in Venezuela November 21. There's going to be general elections in Honduras, November 28. The US is now leading a campaign to delegitimize these democratic procedures, and this campaigns in full force. It includes a multi dimensional strategy, and the US can always count on its right wing allies and the organization of the United States to do some of the dirty work. So it's critical to avoid another OAS orchestrated crew during the elections, as occurred in Bolivia in 2019. And finally, on the 16th, Washington intensified its economic war in Venezuela by kidnapping Alex Sab. He's a Colombian businessman and special envoy, Venezuelan envoy, who managed to circumvent illegal unilateral US sanctions to import vitally food, medicine, fuel, and other goods to Venezuela. Now it's important to note that this act of aggression against Caracas sabotage talks that were underway between the government and opposition. The government was taking place in Mexico, and it dealt a serious blow to international conventions that protect diplomats. So really, what's been happening in the US relationship to Venezuela is on full display the arrogance of the so called rules based order and the means of which US exceptionalism manufactures its own form of legality to suit political aims. Now, in the case of Nicaragua, the US Congress has passed new legislation, the Renacera Act, and this is to wage economic warfare like we saw in the case of Venezuela against the Sandinista government. And US continues to use NGOs as vehicles for building anti-government institutions. At the Council on Hemispheric Affairs, Terry, we maintain that it's up to the people of Nicaragua to decide their own destiny, not hardliners in Miami, the State Department, who are bent on installing a compliant neoliberal regime. And finally, in the case of Honduras, there's a historic opportunity for the people of this Central American nation to restore their democracy. Their constitutional government was undermined by US Baku in 2009 against the Democratic elected government of Manuel Zelaya. And last week, Honduras' Freedom and Refounding Party, Libre, leader, Zomar Castro, and the Saviour Party, President Salvador Nasralla, the president of that party, they forged an alliance and this is very important to face the neoliberal national party in the November 28th general elections. Look, the US drive to dominate Latin America and the Caribbean is facing determined resistance from Bolivarian forces throughout the Americas. So I don't think we ought to be pessimistic, though we ought to be on guard. Progressive governments are making a comeback. There's a growing movement led by Mexico to lead the OAS in favor of a uniquely Latin American regional organization. The organized expressions of popular power throughout the region make it clear that there's no surrendering their sovereignty and dignity to the recolonization of their territory. So I look forward to the insights of our panelists to make this situation even more clear and transparent. Thank you so much, Fred. You're always, I always love talking with you because you're always so clear and articulate in your thoughts, and I so appreciate your insight on Latin America and all of, and all of your work and it's really, really honored that you had time to join us this evening. And I'm happy. I'm happy to see all of our guests tonight. I should mention to our audience that I'm actually broadcasting live from Managua Nicaragua this evening. I'm here to observe the presidential elections to be held Sunday, November 7. So, let's move to Nicaragua. Let's, those are the first elections this month. And so these will be presidential elections with incumbent Daniel Ortega, the front runner. And I want to introduce our next guest, Camilo Machia. Camilo is a Nicaraguan activist based in Miami, Florida. He's a veteran and conscientious objector of the war in Iraq, where he witnessed crimes against humanity by the United States military. So, Camilo, welcome to our program. I'm so pleased to be in conversation with you this evening. It's a real honor to be here with this co-panelist who are really amazing people. Thank you, Fred, for that great context that you've provided to set the stage. I like to start by saying that there are many ways to look at what's happening in Nicaragua right now with the upcoming elections on Sunday. We look at it historically and go back to the 1850s, you know, when the US first set its eyes in Nicaragua because we have a naturally made inter-oceanic canal that would make it a very easy for people to go from east to west, you know, and find gold on the west coast of the US. So we're here to prevent the building of a canal that would rival the US canal in Panama or to build a canal the US has had, you know, a strategic interest in Nicaragua and from then on has not ceased to intervene in our country's affair. So we could go back in history, you know, for centuries. I think that right now in the present context, you know, and I think that Fred provided a really great explanation what the context is. But I believe that with the neoliberal, the globalist neoliberal policies having failed and Nicaragua being a nation that is so small and so poor in relation especially to the United States that is able to provide amazing benefits for all its citizens including universal labor, education, you know, production programs, you know, hunger and poverty eradication in contrast with the neoliberal system that basically strangles not only the poor but also the middle class and even the upper class in the countries that see their natural resources, their labor and the environment completely destroyed by neoliberal policies and to have an example like Nicaragua, providing all these benefits to citizens providing its sovereign, protecting its sovereignty, and then being able to meet not the needs of every Nicaraguan but to go beyond and, you know, see amazing economic growth and things like that. Nicaragua represents an existential threat to the very idea of neoliberalism. But you know, going to a more recent context, I think that many people here I would hope remember the attempted coup in 2018, where it was a largely social media driven. And I know our brothers and sisters in Venezuela are well aware of that because we learned a lot of the lessons that they have learned in Venezuela. But a lot of that was basically social media driven. And we have seen also how the big tech companies have basically canceled so many different like 1000 different accounts in the lead up to the election. I think that that's really telling of, you know, where this is going because a lot of those accounts, you know, the groups that were canceled, the accounts, the individual accounts that were canceled, the pages that were canceled. So many of them basically originated in response to the misinformation campaign of 2018 when basically they took us off guard. And we had to learn basically to fight, you know, through social media and to create pages where we could show that the violence you know was actually being perpetrated by so called peaceful protesters. And so to see that in the lead up to the Sunday election, they're deleting thousands of accounts pages and groups. It's basically, you know, an announcement that there's going to be unrest in Nicaragua and that they don't want the actual Sandinista version to go out, you know, they want the public to have only one version of the story. And that's one thing that we're seeing, of course, today the rena ser act was approved by the House, you know, after being amended by the Senate. And this is going to once again, you know, provide the course of measures that the US utilizes when they're not able to bend the will of the people to basically vote for governments that are subservient to US interest. And so what we're seeing right now has also been detailed in a document titled rain, which stands for Responsive Assistance in Nicaragua that was leaked by the US Embassy last year if I'm not mistaken around the July timeframe, in which the United States through the United States Agency for International Development USA through its financing, basically for see several different scenarios to destabilize the government of Daniel Ortega and Rosario Murillo, and they include natural natural natural disasters which we had to big hurricanes that hit us and hit on Honduras to the north, and a public health crisis which we have in the form of the COVID-19 pandemic, and then political turmoil, which is what we're basically seeing right now with the disinformation campaign around the election that in my opinion seeks to destabilize the electoral process, knowing that, you know, by all stretches of the imagination and also by all polls out there in the surveys that have been conducted, the, you know, the Sandinista government has a very, you know, easy victory coming up on Sunday, you know, we have I believe the latest polls, you know, by MNR consultants, you know, which have been doing conducting in Nicaragua and Central America, not in America for a long time, put the Sandinista party at 63% in relation to the opposition, which I believe that the opposition has 23% of the vote, you know, that they can count on, and that's split between different parties that don't even represent necessarily US interest in the nation because a lot of the people who have been involved in the 2018 attempted coup, who were the recipients of USAID funding to basically destabilize Nicaragua not only in the 2018 but also in the lead up to the elections who have been arrested, you know, they never really had unity they never really had official political parties they had no political forms or anything like that. But even the opposition outside of that opposition, you know, that has been dismantled, you know, in its effort to destabilize the country in the country in the context of the election, they really have no chance of winning. What we're seeing is that, you know, lacking all other recourses the United States only has coercion left and lies and manipulation of information. And so that's basically more or less what we're seeing right now is that you know we're seeing on one hand we're seeing the blackout in terms of like the media, the social media cancellation. And of course, you know the US propaganda machine with global reach has already been added, you know, basically the delegitimizing the government of Daniel Ortega and Rosario Murillo, and we have the sanctions. And, you know, God knows what else we can we can expect to happen I know that the State Department issued a warning to US citizens in Nicaragua telling them to stay off the streets between November 15 November 7. You know what's happening. But you know, like Fred said, there's no turning back. And, you know, this is not our first time around the block we have been fighting US aggression and US intervention for a long time. And we're going to continue what we do you know we're going to continue fighting for our revolution, and we're going to continue fighting for democracy and our sovereignty. I'm sorry folks. Thank you Camilo, I can tell you I'm sitting here in Managua tonight and the streets are very calm and it's been. I has been fascinating and horrifying simultaneously to watch what's happened I arrived on Sunday and you know Monday was that State Department communicate and then Tuesday was the shutdown of all those Facebook accounts. And, you know, today from Washington DC was the passing of the Renner Sarah in in the US House of Representatives and that act was simultaneously introduced in late May, June, in both houses of Congress so you can really see how everything is, is, basically orchestrated be simultaneously, you know, simultaneous events or contiguous events. So let's. So thank you and stay with us because we're going to want to have, you know, a more in depth conversation with all with everyone. So next let's move to the elections on November 21 in in Venezuela. And those are will be regional and municipal elections and tonight we're joined by my code pink Latin America team. teammate Leonardo Flores Leo holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy from the University of Maryland. He dropped out of the master's program at the University of Maryland School of Public Policy to work as an analyst on us as well in relations. He was born in Venezuela and maintains close ties to social movements that have transformed the country over the past 20 years. So welcome Leo I'm glad to be sharing the program with you tonight. Thanks so much Terry and thanks Fred for also hosting. And also I just want to give a quick shout out to the group of DC of Latin American immigrants in DC who had this idea for this webinar to kind of really demonstrate what's going on in the region this month. So thank you for that. So in Venezuela, November 21 we're having what's called mega elections they're called mega elections because there are elections for governors mayors regional legislative councils and municipal councils. Overall there's 3082 positions at stake, and there are 70,000 candidates running from 104 parties, the vast majority of those belong to the opposition. And then we have observers electoral observation mission from the European Union, UN panel of electoral experts will be there. CLA which is the Council of Latin American electoral experts will be there as well observing the Carter Center and observers from, you know, dozens of countries including Russia, Turkey in the US I know you, Fred and you Terry will be there as well to And these elections are pretty important because, you know, generally, you know, gubernatorial elections in different countries, they kind of go escape our radar because we think oh they're not that important in terms of global geopolitics. But these are important because it's the first time since 2017 at the entire opposition is fully participating in elections. And so I was going to just run you through the timeline real quick from elections from 2017 until three weeks from now because I think it's kind of important to get a sense of how the country is developed in that interim. So in July 2017, there was elections for the National Constituent Assembly. These came about because Venezuela was in a period of crisis in 2017 there were very violent street protests, promoted and financed and supported by what we know as the extreme opposition in Venezuela. And these protests basically died the day of the elections, and the opposition boycott of those elections, they said it was unconstitutional despite the fact that it wasn't because the president has the power to call for that those elections. And it was a, in my opinion, I think it was a huge mistake for the opposition to boycott those elections because they might have won and they might have been able to help redraft the Constitution. But then in October 2017, Venezuela held gubernatorial elections. And these are important because, as I mentioned before, this was the last time the opposition fully participated. They were, they being the opposition, they were framing this as a referendum on President Maduro. They said if they won the majority of states that he should resign their pollsters were predicting a landslide victory. I thought they would get we're going to take anywhere between 18 and 20 of Venezuela's 23 states. But the reality was the exact opposite. Chavismo won in 18 states, and a close inspection of the vote showed that Chavismo also won in nearly 90% of the country's municipalities. So as a result of that vote, the next election was in December 2017 when Venezuela held mayoral and regional elections. But since they had already lost in 90% of the country's municipalities, it was such a humiliating defeat that the opposition called for a boycott of those elections, except in reality, it wasn't a true boycott. It was a sham boycott because what we had was opposition candidates. They ran in the municipalities where they thought they were going to win, but they didn't register under their own parties, they registered under smaller parties so they could they could maintain the fiction that the opposition had boycotted these elections. You know, again, Chavismo won in the landslide victory, they took 308 of the country's 335 mayoralities. The next elections were the infamous now quote unquote infamous May 2018 Venezuela presidential elections. And you know the first thing I should note is that these elections were actually brought forward a year they were supposed to be held in 2019, but the opposition had spent years saying that they wanted new elections now. So the motor government said okay let's hold them this year instead of next year let's push them up, hopefully bring more peace and stability stability to the country, but unfortunately, the Trump administration basically orchestrated a boycott of those elections. In late January 2018, as the Venezuelan government and opposition were about to sign comprehensive landmark deal that encompass everything from the economy to elections. The US sabotage those talks, Secretary of Defense Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said he would welcome a coup, the US into the oil embargo, and the US the State Department also said it would not recognize men as well as presidential elections that year. In late January, it was months before the elections were held, and weeks before they were even announced already the US was kind of poisoning the elections there. And additionally the Trump administration pressured opposite opposition politicians not to run. In fact Henry Ramosa loop who was the, the president at the time of action democratic action, one of the major opposition parties in Venezuela he was asked by the press if he would run and he said, Why would I run if the US government won't recognize my victory. So they had even made it clear to opposition candidates that they wouldn't recognize that victory. And at the time it was very confusing why would the US do this. Well the idea was to discredit the elections so much that the Trump administration could then impose a new president. And then Maduro's term ran out in January 2019. That's when you know they named Juan Guaido as the interim president, and this whole fiction of the parallel government. Government began so already in the previous year, those elections were supposedly discredited by the US, because they had this strategy for Juan Guaido in place. But that said, an important sector of the opposition did run and they won not they won three million votes between them, compared to President Maduro who took I believe around 6 million votes and on that occasion. Then the next elections were December 2020. Legislative elections I think you were there Terry as an observer as well. Again there was a partial opposition boycott by the main parties, but they were also kind of caught between a heart rock in a hard place because they knew that if they participated, it would be de facto recognition that the electoral system works, meaning that President Maduro was legitimate, but they also couldn't participate because the Trump said the Trump administration strategy was to boycott, and by the time they had to register for the elections. It wasn't clear whether Trump was going to win here in the US in 2020. So if they participated in Trump one, then it would be basically a slap in the face of Trump who was telling them not to participate. Although it wasn't a full boycott, the moderate opposition, and I call them moderate because they're, this is a sector of the opposition just opposition that doesn't want to burn the country down they haven't called for an invasion they denounce sanctions. And that's how they're moderate because I mean some of these guys are very neoliberal to the extent that they would make University of Chicago economists blush. But anyway, these moderates, they won, excuse me, they ran, they won 20 seats. And so this was a massive, massive victory for Chavismo despite the relatively low turnout. And the fact is that the opposition actually took credit for this low turnout, the opposition, the more extreme opposition led by Juan Guaidó. They portrayed that as evidence of their own popular support. So that leads us into now, November 21st these elections, these are going to be the 26th elections in 23 years for Venezuela. So I mean, all this talk about a dictatorship with no free elections, it's, it's totally us. The latest polls show, or they're projecting rather between somewhere between 40, 50% voter turnout. I think if there's low voter turnout in here, you know, I might, it's, it's hard to predict elections in Venezuela but I pretty confident saying that if there's low participation say less than 40%, it's going to be Chavismo winning in a landslide because the Chavista vote is very kind of secure and they understand the importance of elections. If there's kind of good participation, which I'm going to characterize this somewhere between 40, 50%, I think it's very unlikely we're going to get higher than 50% participation. I still think Chavismo has a good opportunity to win a majority of the races. And in fact, opposition pollster Luis Vicente León from the firm called Data Analysis, he said that the chances of the opposition winning are infinitesimal. That said, I think the opposition is going to do better than it did in 2017 when it only won five of 23 states and 27 of the 335 mayoralities. I think there's going to be a little bit more opposition victories. But the big outstanding question is after four years of boycotts, can the extreme right draw people out? I mean, if we look at the turnout rates in over these last four years, you know, those gubernatorial elections when everyone participated, it was 61% turnout. Two months after that turnout for the municipal elections dropped to 47%. A year later for the presidential elections, it was 46%. Two years after that for legislative elections, it was 31%. So this strategy of boycotting elections has really depressed voter turnout, but that doesn't necessarily translate into, you know, support for these extreme opposition tactics. In part because the opposition is completely split. So right now in these elections, they're running as two major coalitions. The mood, the Democratic Unity Roundtable, which is kind of the traditional coalition of the past 10 or 15 years in Venezuela. And now the so-called the Democratic Alliance. And the Democratic Alliance is made up of parties and candidates that participated in 2018 and 2020, and that have been engaging in ongoing dialogue with the Maduro government. I mean, the opposition is actually like running multiple gubernatorial candidates in at least nine states. And in the state of Miranda, which is, you know, right where part of Caracas is is located. There's two opposition candidates who are slinging all sorts of mud for each other. You know, an opposition candidate just held a press conference yesterday accusing another opposition candidate of having campaign rallies where they were giving away motorcycles, bones and boxes of food. So I mean this sort of infighting is going to be really difficult for the opposition to overcome to the extent that now they're kind of changing the goalposts and they're saying, well, this is this election isn't so much about winning. It's about building unity within the opposition. It's about finding new leadership within the opposition as well. For the side on the side of Chavismo, you know, Chavismo is mostly united. There's the main coalition called the Great Patriotic Coal, which includes the PSUV. And they're expected to take the bulk of the Chavista vote. There is also a smaller coalition known as the APR, Alternativa Popular Revolutionaria. They're running a separate state of candidates as they did in 2020, but they got only one seat in those elections taking less than 3% of the vote so it's not expected that they're going to split the Chavista vote. And just, you know, very briefly, a bit about the economic situation because that's obviously going to determine, well, have an important factor in voter turnout. Right now inflation is down to single digits for the first time in four years. You had credit Suisse projecting 5.5% growth for Venezuela in 2021. Oil production continues to recover, which is being helped by shipments of diluents from Iran. The parallel exchange rate has stabilized and 50% of Venezuelans, this was a poll in August, 50% of Venezuelans said their life had improved compared to one or two years ago. And so I think that kind of very shows very clearly where we're at in terms of the political and economic situation in Venezuela. And one last point that I kind of forgot to mention in just why the opposition is in dire straits, 76% of Venezuelans reject sanctions. And the entire mood coalition is made up of parties that have called for more and more sanctions against the Venezuelan people and I think that's going to hurt them quite a bit at the polls. Well, it's a, it's a call, you know, basically hybrid war against your own people when you're saying, you know, there's one thing that, well, there's so many things you said we'll have to talk when all of you are done. When our panel discussion presentations are done, but this finding the leadership of the opposition trying to find new leadership and trying to unify itself. That's something we heard, you were gracious enough to arrange for a meeting with the opposition for our delegation to Venezuela in December of 2020. And we were able to meet with those parties of the opposition that actually participated in the National Assembly elections last year, and they actually admitted that. These were the parties that participated in believe in the electoral process and believe in the Venezuelan constitution which we don't hear much about those people in the United States. And that was one of the things they flat out said was that they have to, you know, have to, they have to evolve and develop themselves as politicians as candidates as, as, you know, party so. And also, you and Fred are both, excuse me, you and Camilo, both talked about countries, Nicaragua and Venezuela both, who have governments that invest in their people, people over profits system, economic system led by the state. And this and Fred touched on this that we're seeing this joke this, this, this crab this clash throughout the hemisphere I would say throughout the world but specifically in the hemisphere of the Americas where these governments that want to be 100 want to be 100% privatized economies where the profit comes first and the people come second, and the systems that are putting their people first and it's a real clash throughout the hemisphere right now. And we're hoping Lucy that the Hondurans will be able to vote in a government a president in a government that is going to promote its people over profits which we have seen the people in Honduras suffer for so long now over a privatized economic system that's just been devastating to the people, the environment, and the economic well being. So let's, let's move to Honduras those elections are on November 28. These are presidential elections, and we are joined by Lucy Pagawa the case. Lucy is the New York City Department Education teacher in Human Rights Defender. She is the coordinator of Partido Libre US Canada, and she is the producer of the program voices of resistance, which broadcasts every Sunday at 7pm Eastern on WBA I 99.5 FM New York City. Welcome Lucy. Thank you, thank you very much. What an honor it is to be in your program is the first time that I'm in your program, however you've been in my program so many times. Everyone here has been to my program. Every single one of you. Thank you. And I really hope to continue. You know these amazing interviews that we're always having. Well, in in neoliberalism. People don't come second people never come. They're never present in the idea of neoliberalism. And as you mentioned, Honduras is 25 days away from entering a fourth election after the US back cool in 2009. Under the presidency of President Barack Obama his secretary of state Hillary Clinton. And we have to understand that in Honduras, we cannot speak about the present without going back to what happened and everything that that cool actually has meant for the people of Honduras. So for our session, June 2009. For our audience 2009. Yes, 2009 2009 12 years, 12 years, and we're still standing very strongly against the cool and against us in imperialism, which was the perpetrator of the school and going back to this idea of governments that actually think about the people that was basically one of the main reasons why the US under Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton decided that they were going to get not President Celia in the middle of the night. In his pajamas on June 28 2009, because he was actually doing a government that looked out for the people. Part of it had to do with importing oil from Venezuela. Because President Celia signed in with Petro Caribbean, and he had also signed Alba. So the cool against President Celia was also cool against Venezuela. Let's not forget that. And this is the reason why the people of Honduras roast up so to us, the fact that today, 12 years after the cool we're still here standing strongly than ever means that the cool failed, because neoliberalism has failed in Honduras. And the people of Honduras can no longer take it. The people of Honduras are looking for alternatives just like most people in Latin America are, we cannot forget Bolivia, we have to see what has happened in Bolivia the amazing government of the indigenous people of Bolivia. And this is a trend. It's a trend that has been going on in Latin America for the past 20 years. So Honduras is not an exception to the rule Honduras is only part of that big movement that is looking for alternatives against failures of neoliberalism and capitalism in our countries. We don't want it. We refuse it and we're fighting to to go for an alternative. So we went from having an amazing popular movement, the resistance to turning that movement into a political party, because we believe that we could do this in a democratic way, right, that they say we have to use the democratic means. So that's what we are doing. And of course, the United States will always find a ways to confront the people of Honduras. And as I said, we, this is the fourth election, the first election after the cool in 2009, November 2009, we did not participate because obviously, we didn't have a party and we were abstaining from that brutality, because those elections happened in the middle of all the repression and the people being killed, the women being raped on the streets. The repression was brutal by the military and the police, which to me in Honduras, the police in the army almost only serves for a couple of things to repress to kill and to disappear the people, not to protect the people we already know that. So those elections happening in the in the midst of that, but then the the movement that that came out out of that opposition against that US imperial school. Turning to a political party so in 2012 we created the Liberty Party, and we went into elections in 2013. And that was the first product that we suffered, and it was the Liberty Party with Cio Maracastro de Celaya as our candidate, right in the United States intervene. They imposed the National Party in 2010 with Porfirio Lobosos, we called it the inflated president, el presidente inflado Porfirio Lobo because it was all we abstain and he pretty much ran on his own. And that was Hillary Clinton's candidate a narco, the first narco that she actually supported in Honduras. Why do I see a narco because his son, his son Fabio Lobo, it's, you know, in prison. You know, he was sentenced for 30 something years in a in a New York prison. So that was the first narco. Then later in 2017, we ran against the elections and we formed the first alliance. And that's what Compañera Fred referred to that. And, you know, there was fraud again. And this is when they, the United States Embassy, the government supported and imposed Juan Orlando Hernandez for the second time right he ran for the second time. There is no reelection in Honduras, and he, he actually fired the people in court, the judges and those judges were able to say that he, his new judges, right, his own judges were able to say that he could run. So when Orlando Hernandez ran for the second time. And, and again, the US Embassy, right, declare Juan Orlando Hernandez, the winner, right, against Narrada who had won the elections. So what we see is a pattern of US occupation in Honduras that has been historically is not just the 12 years ago we're talking about, you know, from the very early 1900s in Honduras. You know, early 1900s, the United States turned Honduras into a banana republic. And we saw the abuses of the United States companies against the Honduran people, you know, those were in place of enslavement of the Honduran people. And since the United States has always decided in Honduras, who's going to be ruling the show until President Celaya came along and said enough, enough, we need to defend our dignity, we need to do something. And so the price was that he was expelled from his own country. He was, you know, taken out, and we continue to fight. So now we're going back the fourth time. And this is the third time for the Liberty Party. Now, Xiomara Castro again is the candidate and Salvador Narrada joined again, right, with the Pino Party. And we have this presidential coalition only at the presidential level. And we've learned from our mistakes as the movement, you know, we've come along. And now we are more organized than ever in, in Honduras, but also outside of Honduras. And I'm a testimony of that, because I've been in this process. It's not that I read it or somebody told me but I've been invested my entire life just like my family and the entire movement that I represent here in the United States and other parts of Latin America and even in Europe. This is this is an amazing movement, the movement of the Honduran people. So we're ready for the 28. We know that the embassy is there for this time around. They're not as aggressive as they have been. And we think part of it is because they're probably fed up of Juan Orlando Hernandez because Juan Orlando is another drug dealer. He's another, you know, drug lord in Honduras. So it is this pattern of the United States supporting these, these, these, these drug dogs in Honduras. Tony Hernandez, Juan Orlando Hernandez's brother also was sentenced in a New York prison in a New York Accord for trafficking tones of cocaine and weapons into the United States. So I think that the United States right now in Honduras is a little bit conflicted by the fact that they are, they have been throughout all these years supporting this, this, this corrupt dogs, which not that the United States cares much about who they support, whether it is a corrupt government or not. But I feel that because the movement is so strong in Honduras, they can no longer hold what they've been trying to hold for all these years. And right now we see that the, the embassy is kind of corner. We don't know what they're going to do, but they're not as aggressive as they have, they have been. And as a Honduran, as a Honduran here in the United States and a citizen of the United States. This is my message for, for the United States government, right? Because Pam Kamala Harris supposedly is concerned about these caravans, right? Because Honduras, the levels of poverty, you know, since the coup that have been deepening. And this is pretty much what they want to do to countries like Venezuela and Nicaragua and Cuba, right? Sixty years of horrendous criminal blockade and what they did in Bolivia. But this is what they want to do. They want to turn these countries into other Honduras. They want to have real narco traffickers like Juan Orlando Hernandez in these countries. They're talks to play their, to play their game, right? So right now what we see is that we're not sure about the role of the US embassy. They're not as aggressive as they have been. That doesn't mean that we trust them, but we do have a message as a Honduran people in Honduras and here too. I'm just going to read you the conclusion of an article that I just recently wrote and that our compañeros from Struggle La Lucha published that it's really cool and I thank them for doing that. And you could find this article on Struggle La Lucha. It's called 12 Years After the Coup, Conduering Resistance Fights for Fair Elections. And that's all that we want. And they, if they will to allow us, and I mean the United States and its purpose there, the, these representatives because they're not even ambassadors on the United States doesn't even have an ambassador in Honduras. This is how about the treat us. It's like, we don't even, you know, they're, we don't even deserve to have a rank for an ambassador. No, Honduras is so, it's such a, you know, whatever disposable country that they don't even deserve to have an ambassador. Yet, these, even these representatives like that, even though they were not ambassadors, they will, they will run the show. These people will come in and supervise the polls. Can you imagine somebody coming from Honduras to try to tell the United States how to run their elections? I mean that's great. The United States needs such a big fuss about Russia, like sniffing into their elections, right, and sniffing into their democratic process. Yet, they want to, they want to run our elections, they want to run our show, and this is how they do it. So, but they're concerned they say about what's happening with the caravans and the crisis at the border, right. They want to do something they say. So we tell them, if you really want to do something, leave us alone as countries. But this is my message to the United States government, as I put it in this article. I said to the US government and the embassy in Honduras, we say, if you do not want to continue, to continue facing, right, the massive exodus of people from your failed imperial displaced people from your failed neoliberal policies in Honduras. Because the caravans are an absolute result of the failed neoliberal system in Honduras and US imperial failed policies as well. And what has happened there is that the United States has turned our country into an exporter of displaced people. And if we don't change the situation right now in the country, we, after the 28, Teddy and Leonardo and Camilo and Fred, we will have in Honduras that perhaps will look very different than the Honduras that we know right now. Because it just hasn't been enough to impose these neoliberal failed policies in Honduras deepened the mystery that we have as a country that has people leaving massively in the caravans because they take, they cannot take it anymore. They cannot take the violence, they cannot take the abuse, they cannot take the violence of poverty and everything that the people of Honduras are facing right now. On top of it, this narco government headed by Juan Orlando Hernandez has sold a big part of our territory to this new, new business called las sedes or zones of jobs and development. What does that mean that in Honduras, these trans nationals will build inner cities, inner cities in which the Honduran people cannot live anymore. And these people don't care. They have given away our territory. And in this, these new cities that they will build within Honduras, they will have their own governments that will have their own laws that will have their own not political system but legal systems in which they will not respond to to the to the original Honduran constitution, they will have their own mini constitutions. So we'll have within Honduras places like I don't know Shanghai Dubai, you know, a super developed within within Honduras cities that Austin as Honduras we're not going to be able to go. They say that if you want to in the future, join one of those, one of those model cities, you will have to have an income of at least 60,000 a month, $60,000 a month. Who's going to make that kind of money. No wonder nobody born and raised nobody born and raised in Honduras no no self respect the Honduras. No, it's not with the money system. So this is what we are facing with we practically have lost our country to these narcos. And this is the kind of of thoughts that the United States government is facing there is supporting there and this is why we tell them, if you don't want to have your crisis, you know, they call it their crisis of the displaced people of neoliberalism, leave us alone, allow them to elect the people that we want and let us be, you know, what we want to be let us have the leaders that we want. Take away your hands of our countries and leave us alone. You know, but this is the problem with the United States they don't want to leave us alone, because they want was there from us they want our resources they want our land. But they hate us, they don't want the people, but they want our resources and they want our land, but in Honduras, we're fighting for that. And the government that Xiomara is going to lead calls for all of that these people have to get out of our country. This, this, you know, business people who purchase the land. Supposedly, they purchase it. They're going to have to get out. And we need to reclaim our dignity. We need to reclaim our sovereignty in the United States needs to stay away. That's what we're saying, if you want to fix, if you want to help us, just get the hell out of our country. Well, Lucy, I think you're going to follow Xiomara as president someday. I love you. I so and I will say, I think as you know, I'll be in Honduras on November 28. So I will be very proud to be there and and witness your presidential elections on the 28th and I'm so thankful for your activism and your love of your work and your and your and your passion and your knowledge. Everyone's knowledge that's been on the panel this evening you've all you're also great and like I told the audience when we started it's just been wonderful to have a panel of guests who, you know, are such fabulous activists but also I will say all of you are just such great personal friends as well and I'm honored that you all had time to join us this evening. When we started the program Fred had asked asked me if there'd be time for some questions and specifically from him. And so why don't we take a few minutes and and have a quick Q&A. We'll have Fred start and for the audience if you're watching us on zoom. You can put your question in the chat and also if you're watching us on Code Pink YouTube live you can make a comment in the chat as well and I'll be sure to check both platforms for any questions and comments. So Fred welcome back to the conversation. Thank you very informative. The panelists, really, I think enlighten us about the present situation. Just one question for Camilo and one for Leonardo. Camilo. 2018, which you described as a attempted coup, a colpismo really at the time, divided some of the progressive forces in the United States. So the mainstream media campaign was pretty successful in dominating the imagery of what was going on in 2018. So my question for you is how do you respond to those who are, you know, still we can say progressive forces that had these very intense misgivings about 2018, because I think you began to address and it's very important given that we're facing another media campaign in the present moment. And a question for Leonardo is you mentioned a poll that said that for 50% of Venezuelans life was getting somewhat better since August and so we also receive reports from United Nations repertoire that the situation is still extremely difficult. And part of the reason that we're so intensely against these sanctions is because of the hardship. So maybe you could just go a little bit more into what you think the implications of that poll are. And if we if we can compare that to these other testimonies that we're receiving about the situation and Venezuela. Okay, Camilo. Thank you, Fred. That's a really, that's a really great question on try to be brief, because I know we don't have that much time. But this is part of that effort, you know that we have been working with people on the ground in Nicaragua, a lot of solidarity workers who have lived there for decades and continue to do an excellent job as international, internationalists in Nicaragua. You know we have published a couple of books on the attempted cool and you know some of the things that happen afterwards. I believe that we have been very successful in taking over social media platforms at least in Nicaragua. And that's one of the reasons why they have canceled so many accounts programs like this I think are really great. And then also, you know, when people tend to fall for the here and now you know what they're seeing you know which is the result of you know this propaganda campaign. I think it always helps to point out to history and you know show to people how history is basically repeating itself. When you look at US intervention. And even if you go back to the Spanish gone if you want to go really that far. And you're going to see that you know the same players are in, you know, a part of the our own stage right now the the same political groups, you know, of the past, you know that we're fighting for power and leaving the poor out at all at all times the the oligarchy, the Catholic Church is the hierarchical Catholic Church and of course the US. And then also follow the money trail and see how a lot of the groups, if not all of the groups are connected to us money via USA and national democracy. So this is the work that we're doing, you know, working in solidarity with brothers and sisters and places like Honduras and of course Venezuela, Cuba, etc. So that we can show a larger context so we can show historical context and show so that we can empower people to with the tools that they that they need in order to, to understand, you know, the new landscape in which, you know, it's not not even a part of the picture, you know, but we're looking at lawfare or hybrid war or soft schools, or however you want to call it you know it's, it's really hard to understand for people, especially because the USA money and the net money have created an entire ecosystem of on the surface, you know, progressive organizations, you know, dedicated to environmental protection and women's rights and worker rights and peasant rights and whatnot, that have been trained and financed by the US, basically to lend that face of, you know, progressivism, when in reality, you know, their their fronts for US interventionism in Nicaragua. But those are some of the things that that we do that we will continue to do you know it's it's an ongoing struggle and you know we learn as we go, because you know what we're doing today, it's very different from what we were doing two or three years ago. Thank you. Okay, and then. So the poll I mentioned it was 50% of Venezuelan said their life had improved compared to one or two years ago and that poll was taken in August. And I think that does square in with everything the UN has been saying about the impact of the sanctions because that as well as economy was completely devastated by the sanctions and I think the poll, what it reflects is the fact that the Venezuelan government has been able to overcome the sanctions in important ways. Most importantly through the clap program which is boxes of food and other essentials that of 7 million families receive every month in Venezuela 7 million families in the country of 30 million people. And so through programs like the clap, and through really, you know, the intense efforts of the government to restart oil production, we're seeing a bit, a little bit of growth in the economy, it's a little bit of stability. That said, you know, I didn't mean to paint a rosy picture at all the economy still a disaster compared to what it was five six years ago and that's entirely due to the US economic war. There's such brutal policies that have you know, killed 100,000 Venezuelans according to Alfred desires former special UN repertoire. 40,000 Venezuelans in the first year of the Trump sanctions alone according to the Center for Economic Policy Research. So these the sanctions are still having a really devastating impact, particularly on the health care sector in Venezuela. And you know we still have rolling blackouts shortages of water shortage internet dropouts transportation issues. So the issues, you know, are still all still there of course but then as well as been resilient in the face of those sanctions. You know, I think there's still a lot of work to be done on the sanctions front as you mentioned in your opening remarks. The Biden administration kind of sabotage the ongoing dialogue between the government and the extreme right with the extradition of Alex Saab or the kidnap of Alex Saab I should say. So the sanctions remain kind of an important factor that affects the daily life of every single Venezuelan things are slightly better I don't think that as well it can possibly ever recover economically. If the sanctions are not lifted. Can I just make a personal comment as I listened to Leo and listening to the impact of the sanctions and as you know I have visited your country, you know, at least once in the last 1520 years and I've seen the full cycle and I have to say to you. If your fellow countrymen it is the most profound thing to witness how strong the Venezuelan people are in their resistance it is a it's palpable when you're on the streets you an hour on the streets of Caracas and you can just feel that the Venezuelan people they totally understand politically and economically what's happening to them they understand hybrid war they understand us interventionism don't want it. And, and really it's it's. It's a profound thing to witness I don't personally know anyone except those of you living in Venezuela who could really quite honorably survive this war that's been against the country through through sanctions it's really it's it's a profound thing to witness. And while deserve a lot of credit for that for surviving it so far. So, you know there's something Lucy that you said that and, and, and now that Leo was brought in brought back up Alex up I totally forgot that now that President Zalaya was kidnapped in his pajamas. And so we just you know this kidnapping technique that the United States uses this over judicial reach of the United States throughout the world can any of you comment on that. And we've seen this we've seen this what is called extradition but a flat out kidnap the bellic sub. Just want to add just want to add Aristide was also. He was a democratic elected president of Haiti. Yes, and that was actually the plan for Operation Gideon in Venezuela that the so called mercenary invasion that they planned to kidnap President mother would oh and take him out of the country. The same thing happened in 2002 in Venezuela when the plan was to kidnap Chavez and they actually did. They didn't manage to take him out of the country he stayed in the country but but it's a common theme we see in terms of us and your right to Maria we remember Panama, whatever you think of Maria he too is flown out of the country. And in Honduras is is some is easy for the United States to do that because let's not forget that the United States has the largest US air base of Central America in Honduras. And it is also what I call the cave of the Southern commander, El Comando Sur, La Cueva, the cave of the Southern commander so when President Salaia was taken out of his house, you know, gone, gone down right. He went into that military base in Koma Yawa, that's where he was taken. And, you know, later we learned that the phone call was made and to the Pentagon, and this is when they were ordered to, to, to take him and and to drop him in the order of Costa Rica, because initially the order was to was to kill President Salaia, but then they took him they took him there. This killer Romeo Vazquez Velasquez was the general who actually kidnapped President Salaia said that the president was supposed to kill him. So that was supposed to be a magnet side not not not just the kidnap but a magnet side of the president. And then he got nervous. And so that's why he took him, he took him to to who gave him the order, the people the owners of the military base. And that's where they said just just take him and drop him in Costa Rica. And this is where you know President Salaia was missing for some hours, and then early in the morning that's when we learned that he was in the airport this is where he gave the little, you know, interview that this is what had happened to him. He was still in his pajamas when he gave his first interviews at the airport in Costa Rica. So Lucy Joe Biden was the vice president, let's not forget that right. President, let's not forget that. So can I ask you about electoral observation in Honduras because I know that the OES will be there and we saw what the OES did in Bolivia, and what the OES itself, how they kind of folded in the pressure to the pressure of the Trump administration in 2017 when there's so many irregularities. Is that is that a fear again that the OES is going to somehow interfere in this process. And that's already been meeting with a lot of the delegations that are there and the OES is one of them that she already met with. And they normally don't do anything prior to the elections, they intervene the day off and towards the countdown, this is when they come in and do the job. So they're there, they're there already, and they have met with with our candidate, but we don't really know what they have a stake this year but they have always been the players what I can tell you is that you know Mugre, the Mugre, though you get the disgusting stuff in your nose. Almagro, Almugre we call him. He met with the, yeah I know right, only those who are bilingual can get the joke, Almugre. And I'm a language teacher so I'm sorry I do these kind of things with language I think humor is important too, you know especially when we attack the enemy it's good to kill them with humor. So, Almugre met with the candidate for Juan Orlando Hernandez in Washington. This was in around August. He met with a Nahrie Alfura, who is the Asfura who is the candidate of the National Party, who was supposedly the successor of Juan Orlando Hernandez to us, they're the same, they're the same cartel, right. So, Almugre came forward Almagro came forward and said that he had met with the candidate of the National Party in Washington, and they had a very interesting conversation. We know what his inclination is. He's a golpista, he's a coup platter. He plot the coup in Bolivia. He's been, you know, leading what happened in Ecuador, right, against President Correa let's not forget that either. And so, it's time we changed the OAS for something that dignifies the people of Latin America. This guy Almagro he has to go. And so does the OAS. We need a real organization of the people of Latin America, not what we have right now. That's a, that's a extension of the Pentagon in the Department of State. We don't need that. Leo, I wonder, you know, we've been talking just briefly about the OAS, and Leo is leading a project at Code Pink that is, you know, shifting the OAS and Leo lost his camera but I think he's with us. I think you still have your audio. I do still have it sorry about the camera. No, that's okay. No, and just briefly. So, you know, as, as folks know who've been following Code Pink we've been calling for Almagro's resignation for almost two years now since the coup in Bolivia. And it's kind of this, this campaign to get rid of Almagro to replace the OAS. We're also starting the campaign to get rid of the statue of Queen Isabella, which is at the right next to the front door of the OAS. It's a gross, gross symbol of racism and genocide and imperialism and has no place in front of the OAS. And we're starting an open letter, hopefully to be signed by prominent activists and intellectuals and journalists and others and politicians so I'm going to invite all of you to sign of course and soon we'll open it up to the general public but I just wanted to let folks know that's in the works from Code Pink. Thank you so much. So, everyone, any closing comments on the evening. I know for me it's just been such an honor to be among all of you this evening, really a joy. I would propose that we do this again early December and evaluate what November in the Americas looks like today and what it looks like the first of December because we have, there's a real opportunity for the Americas to look quite different within the next 30 days. It'd be great to revisit. After we see the change in Honduras. I would like to just make one observation that for those who are very concerned about the flow of refugees from Latin America North. Let's note that there have been very few refugees coming from Nicaragua, which is practically has food security, despite the fact that there is still poverty to be overcome. So, if the US seeks to undermine these elections in Nicaragua. They can expect to have even a larger refugee issue at the border. So the very process of meddling in the internal affairs of sovereign nations ends up having consequences that lead to double victimization. Hondurans, for example, are victimized in their own country by the disaster of the post coup. And then once again, when they seek refuge in the United States. Thank you Fred for threading the needle on that. When we talk about root causes of migration. We often don't talk about US foreign policy we'll talk about climate change, state violence, economic underdevelopment of economics but US foreign and economic policy is a huge, huge creation of migration. So listen everyone. Thank you for your participation. Diddy, diddy, can I, yeah, can I give a final thought. First, I just want to say that not only in Honduras. Are we going for a definite political transformation. That is a systemic transformation that we call for. And this is why we are, we are, we are having a woman run for president so not only are we going to be transforming the reality of our country but the face of having the first female president is the first signal of that. And I don't want to forget Haiti in this entire conversation about displaced people and the way that the United States treats our government treats people. Once they get to their, to their borders, look at the, at the horrendous crisis of the Haitian displaced people at the US Mexican border recently. And it is the same with the Central Americans, particularly the ones that are coming from what they call the North triangle. So let's pay close attention to what is going on in Honduras, because Honduras has been a country that historically we don't really pay that much mind to because Honduras has always been subdued by US imperialism and capitalism. We have been the military platform of the United States for all these years but Honduras has been in rebellion for the past 12 years, and Honduras is fighting for real independence away from the dictates of Washington, trying to find its own destiny. The way the Hondurans wanted, not the way that Washington wants to impose it. So let's pay close attention to what is going on there because a lot of wonderful things could come out of what happens after the 28th. And we're very hopeful. We're not triumphant, but we are, we feeling victorious because we're going is the third time around, and we have learned a lot and we have prepared a lot for what is coming on the 28th, but we expect great things to happen. Thank you for the opportunity. Oh, thank you. So everyone I really I hope we can, we can, we can have, you know, part two of this conversation, early December and really look at at the results of the elections this month so like we when we opened the conversation tonight we said, we've got elections in, in Nicaragua on the 14th, Argentina on the 14th, Chile and Venezuela on the 21st, and Honduras on the 28th. So, a real opportunity for transformation and, and I'd love the chance to evaluate all those election results in 30 days. Thank you so much. I want to thank all of you Fred Mills, Mila Machia, Leonardo Flores, and, and you Lucy Lucy Paguada quesada. Thank you for a terrific conversation. Thank you for your activism and your knowledge and your friendship. I love all of you and I'm so happy you all had time this evening for this event. Let's talk in December. I also should tell remind our audience you've been watching what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean code pinks weekly YouTube program of hot news out of the region. I'm going to cast every Wednesday 730pm Eastern 430pm Pacific on code pink YouTube live, and a shout out to Lucy's program on WBA I every Sunday 1pm Eastern and Lucy has been gracious enough to ask me to give an update from Managua on Election Day here so I'll be happy to join you on on Sunday for a few minutes at least I hope. Thank you so well. So thank you everyone. Thank you to our audience. Thank you so much. Thank you, Lucy. Hasta la victoria siempre. Hasta la victoria siempre. Venceremos. Venceremos.