 First is I'll open the meeting with an announcement. I'm Pete Kelly, chair of the DRB. Welcome to the applicants and public participants. Please sign in by renaming yourself on the participant toolbar or commenting in the chat. This is a hybrid meeting taking place in the town hall or actually virtually. All members of the board and public can communicate in real time. Planning staff will provide zoom instructions for public participation before the hearings are opened. All votes taken in this meeting that are not unanimous will be done by roll call vote in accordance with the law. We actually do all votes by roll call. If zoom crashes, the meeting will be continued to April 12th of 2022. Let's start a meeting by taking a roll call of attendance of all DRB members. Paul Christensen. Present. John Hemmelgarten. Here. Nate Andrews. Here. Scott Riley is not attending. David Saladino is not attending. Dave Turner. Here. And the chair is present. Five are present. We do have a quorum. Okay. Next up, Simon, walk us through zoom instructions, please. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the meeting. Please could everyone take the time to name themselves properly. You can do this by clicking on the participants button. In the bottom of the toolbar. That brings up the participants panel on the right-hand side of your zoom menu. You can then click the name. If you hover over it, that shouldn't allow you to type in your name. Alternatively, you can just type your name in the chat. Send it to me and I can rename you. Zoom has a number of functions you can use. These are located in the toolbar on the base of the screen. On the left-hand side here, you have the mute button for turning your mic on and off. Please keep it muted when you're not speaking to avoid any trouble. We also have the stop and start video button to turn your video on and off. Video is optional. We have the chat function. Please use that if you need some technical help. 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And then lastly, if you do have a bad internet connection, you can try a number of things. You can try turning off your video. You can try closing other browser tabs, computer programs. You might be running or any other phone apps. And lastly, if you are really experiencing problems, you can try using your telephone for a speaker microphone. You do this by clicking the up arrow next to unmute or mute. Click leave computer audio and then dial back into the meeting using the meeting ID. If you do have any questions or technical requests, please do send me a message. I'll see if I can help you. Okay. Thank you, Simon. Okay. Next up on the agenda is the public forum. This is an opportunity for anyone participating in tonight's meeting who would like to address the board. On any topic that is not on tonight's agenda. If you would like to speak, please raise your hand and Simon will acknowledge you. I'm not seeing any raised hands. I didn't get any chat requests to speak. Okay. Great. Thank you. Okay. Now we're going to segue into the public hearing portion. We have one applicant tonight. It's DP 22-06 green state reality LLC. A pre app for redevelopment of 4626. Wilson road. Who is present representing the applicant? If you want to come meet yourself. And. Your name. And address. So my name is Carl. This is my client. Anastasia. Yeah. We're here. Okay. Address for the record, please. For both of you. Address. Carl Marshall. We're office at 13 corporate driver's extension. Vermont. Oh, five, four, five, two anesthesia. The property four, six, two, six, five, four, five, four, five, four, five. Okay. Great. Thank you. And welcome. Thank you. Because staff goes next. Okay. So I have written a staff report for this project review. And I will not be reading the entirety of it. I will focus on sections that are not standard. Or have some unique element. But I would like the entire staff report to be entered into the record. This is a request for a pre-application review to construct a new building, storage lot, parking and related apartments is at 4626 Williston road. Some grading and earth removal is required for this project. The site's currently developed with a single story, multi-tenant building and unpaid storage lot. There was a recent boundary line adjustment that was approved administratively. That merged the two parcels shown here. You can see how that line is crossed out. And pushed this southern boundary line back a little ways into the robert lot. So staff's recommending that the DRB approved the proposed project to proceed to discretionary permit with recommendations as drafted. Neither the conservation commission nor the hack reviewed this. Public works and fire reviewed this project and submitted comments, which were included in your packet. No public comment letters were received. As far as dimensional standards. Per WDB 36 three dot four. No parking or buildings or structures are allowed within the 35 yard front yard setback. There is the on the site plan three parking spaces that are within the setback and must be removed. From the site plan at discretionary permit. There is some landscaping in the front yard setback and the stormwater swale, both of which are allowed. Outdoor sales and storage are shown on the site plan. Outdoor. In this case outdoor sales and storage are the same area. I'll just show the site plan. The proposed use is a auto dealership and. It's not allowed in the front yard. The storage lot is proposed right here to the side of the building. Because this lot has a, has an unusual shape. Normally where, where outdoor storage is not allowed in the front yard. In this case, staff is recommending that because it's beside the building, it be considered as a side. Yard as the side yard. And that it be allowed. And then there's a lot of existing nonconformities on this lot. Mainly the, the. The dry vial within the front yard setback. This project. Will actually reduce the existing nonconformities. On the site. And then there's a lot of existing nonconformities on the site. By controlling. Providing more controlled access and, and removing. The, the storage that's currently in the setbacks. The access is from. Willis and road. A state highway. And the applicant is coordinating with the agency of transportation on that access. A letter of intent from AOT will be required at discretionary level. And. The site plan must include. Parking, vehicular parking. And bicycle parking. And an end of trip facility. For the site. The DRB should discuss. The proposed use with the applicant and make a recommendation on the site. And let's see. For landscaping. So the subject parcel. Is bordered by an industrial use. On the west. And road frontage to the north and then to the south and east is this big wooded lot. And there's a lot of landscaping here for. Street trees or landscaping in the front. The, the applicant is proposing some. Landscaping shrubs. In the front. Along route to. And there really isn't any, there, there isn't a whole lot of room on the side here for. Landscaping between this lot and the adjacent industrial lot. So the staff is recommending that the DRB. Just maybe, maybe require a fence there to delineate the two lots. And, you know, not require any landscape plantings there. And. So the, the, there will be a lot of grading and earth moving on this property. To the slope here behind the development, just to provide a little more room. On the lot. And so because of that, it is considered high risk. Because there are steep slopes. So. Because of that, there will be a requirement for a run. Erosion prevention and sediment control plan to be submitted at discretionary permit. And also there is a wetland buffer that comes very close. To the top of that slope. At the rear of the parcel. So. The applicant should clearly demarcate that wetland buffer on the. Erosion prevention and sediment control plan. And on the site prior to. Erosion prevention and sediment control plan. And so that will be required. For the, for the, for the grading or earth movement. So as to prevent any encroachment of the buffer. And that's about all I have to say. I've listed some drafted recommendations for you to consider. Thank you. Hey, thank you, Melinda. So the applicant. What, what do you have to add to that before I open it up for discussion? Thank you Melinda for doing a great job. I think you would have done a better job than I would have done, but you got the right to report. So we're very appreciative of that. I don't have much to add. One of the things that we're going to debating on sharing with staff was what a storage law looks like. And I don't know if I, I don't know how to share my screen. But I've done a few and I, I didn't even know what a storage law was until like 2018. I feel like if you could set eyes on my other screen and maybe you can help me do that, I'd like to show you what a pattern of the storage law looks like for the way they want to use the parking lot. I think that would be, you know, we're reading the staff report. I feel like that's one of the items that the borscht see if that's okay. So I just hit share screen and then I can just move it over. Is that what I do? Okay. I'm calling you a co-host. So if I hit screen one, are you going to see this? Try to click share. Okay. So do you see that screen or? We do. So that's a, that's a storage line in on pine street, bro. So it was just an empty lot that wasn't being used. And you can see that they paid no attention to the striping. The reason the pattern, my understanding is predominantly it's three, but sometimes it's four. It depends on how often the vehicles get moved. But this is the kind of pattern that the storage lot is in, in terms of trying to preserve space and utilize the most space that we have. Cause honestly, we know that we're tight. And so I just wanted you guys to set eyes on this. So if you Google pine street, Burlington, you can zoom into this area. But anyways, I wanted you all to see that so that you can understand the size constraints of the lot that we're at based against and how we plan on maximizing, um, you know, the storage law. So I didn't want to show traditional spacing because I don't think it's really pertinent cause this is the kind of bumper to bumper thing that, um, that we envision for our storage law and then a display area closer to the front where the dry while it's going to be. So that's how we would envision it, which is why there's not a need for traditional nine by 18 spaces. So these cars are just being moved by around by the applicant, which would be, you know, the people that work on cars that sell cars so that, you know, you don't get door dings and stuff, but obviously you can see that it's a very tight pattern here. So, um, anyways, okay. So I just stopped share on that everybody. I can send that into, we made a PDF of it and I can set the assignment if you guys want to incorporate that into the record. So that's the first thing I wanted to share with you all. Um, the other item that I wanted to discuss was, um, the front buffer of the 35 feet. We're totally fine with taking out the three parking spaces. We'll definitely do that. Um, we want to put a little loach lying shrubs and create a stormwater feature. We think we're about 0.8. So we're nowhere near the full acre to trigger a state stormwater permit, but we're going to drain everything towards the front. We're going to create a depression and we're going to try to maximize our infiltration for stormwater and do some landscaping to sort of soften, um, you know, the main road to our parking area. And I think that's what staff, um, sort of directed us to do when we met with them. And that's what the staff report sort of indicates. So that's what we want to do. Um, and then the grading, if you would pull up sheet two, I think we should definitely look at grading. Um, She too is an existing conditions plan, Melinda. I don't know if you could bring that up or should I share my screen or. Okay. So that's, uh, that's the first sheet and, uh, I think that she won her sheet too, if you could scroll to the other sheet. So these kind of overlay each other, but you can see the feature in the front that's very steep. And then in the back, um, is actually grading to a flattened area. And then it actually, we are fighting that grade. So this is kind of erosion control question answered. And also, um, you know, the steepness factor answered. Um, I think that's, um, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. First of all, we're not, we're not disturbing much area, but the area that we are disturbing, we are going to lessen the slope to lesser of a slope than what's there now. So this is, this is much steeper there now. Then, um, then what we're going to create when we regrade it. The second thing I think is, is very important emphasizes. We are grading down into our parking lot. So in other words, it's a very important thing to be aware of. And, um, that's, um, I think we're going to, um, we're going to be able to go over the wetland. So as Melinda said in her report, we will definitely stake that out. That 50 foot buffer. But the toe of slope and we got correspondence from, um, Tina Heath, the state wetlands. Person that we corresponded with. And I think we provided that for the file. I don't know if you have in your file, but the staff has it. And our intention is to not disturb anything in the buffer. So, um, I think it's important to be aware of that. Um, because we can't even catch up to that grade and not disturb the buffer. So all our water, storm water is going to be draining, um, in an orderly fashion towards Wilson road. And that's why we want to put that feature in the front to control our storm water. And then put some low lying bushes to, uh, to make it look nice. And provide, you know, an aesthetic feature that is pretty much predominantly, uh, gravel when you drive by there. Um, I think we wanted to talk about, you know, End of trip facilities. I wanted to mention that. Um, you know, we're agreeable to work on that. I think talking to Anastasia in the new building, I think they do want to put in showers. I'm not sure how that corresponds with, you know, public versus like utilizing from the employees, but I'm hoping to get a little bit clarification on that. And, uh, Yeah. I think Melinda did a great job. I think that's really all the things that we wanted to show. Um, Cause at first glance it is, it is, uh, it is a lot of grading. It appears like a lot of grading, but I think when you drive by there, um, you're looking at a much steeper slope right now than you're going to be looking at when we're all done and it's going to be pushing it back. So, um, it's going to kind of soften that steep slope appearance that's there now. Basically we'd like to take more of it out if there wasn't a buffer, but, um, that's a little bit more of a permitting conflict, which is why we're opting to just take up to the buffer. So we won't have to do any wetland permitting and stuff like that. Carl, this is John Hemmelgarn. Yeah. I appreciate what you're saying here, but I think it would be helpful. Can, can Miles, uh, Simon, did you just, can you pull that back up on the screen for, even for those of us who are familiar with reading plans? This is confusing. Okay. If you could put that back up and just give us a plain English description of where this is going up, where it's going down, where the line of the wetlands buffer is, which areas you're cutting, where you're taking out fill, where you're adding fill. Just give us a plain English description of what you're doing on this site. So is there any way I could move my cursor on the screen? Do you guys see my cursor on the screen or no? If that's you moving it. Yes. I got to share my screen or there's a cursor on the screen right there. I think that was, I think that was Melinda. Oh, Melinda's going to have to. I can do that. I can bring up a plan and share my screen. I think. Because the plans we have are so small that I cannot read the contour designations on there. Maybe I'm just too old. No, no, that's fair enough. You know what? It's there's so many contours. I couldn't label them so that it would make sense. So I will explain that. Well, I can figure out where one smaller than the next, which way is going downhill, but I can't read the numbers. Yep. No, I get it. The regrading is actually occurring. Well, okay. We'll go over that right now. I'm going to share your screen and call so you can point it out. I do apologize. I'm a little, I'm not very good. I want to bring in our copy plans and come and see you guys in person. I'm not going to lie, but I'm going to get it right now. All right. All right. So I'm going to hit, let's see where are we? Okay. There we go. Share screen. Oh yeah. This isn't too bad. All right. I got it. Um, so let me zoom in here. Yeah. These are the existing great contours. And right here is 300. And this is three 10. Now we're cutting into the bank at this location along this side. And then we're basically creating a new high point like right here. And this is all the way down. So in other words, like we are fighting the existing slope. Back down and not changing, um, this 50 foot buffer line. So we're basically going to stake out this orange line. And then we're going to cut the slope. All the re grading heading back down towards the site. So this is a three 15, three 11. So this is 16, 17, 18, 19, 21. So basically you're going to start elevation three 21 and grade back down to three 11. So we're going to cut the slope. What's the high elevation on the site right now? Um, I mean, is that a note that you're just taking the top off of? Yeah, basically we're cutting the top off of it. Yeah. There's the English I'm looking for. So I'm going to ask you that. Um, the site is about three 35. So you're going to take 20 feet off that hill. Pretty much. And essentially get rid of the steep slope that you see that goes down. So all this stuff is going to go in the very steep part of the front. And this is about like one and a half or someone one, like right here, and we're going to change it to three on one, but we're basically fighting up against, you know, basically this slope right here. So this is going down, but we're going to start at the orange line and grade it back down because obviously this would be way too high. Our site wants to be like three 11, like this contour shown here. So that's the, that's our target grade is three 11. Right in that vicinity at the back of the building. So. Is that answer your question? Is that a, is that a, like a former fill site or something where they pushed a bunch of dirt from a previous construction project or what? Is that native, a native feature? I actually don't know the answer. I don't know, but they had a permit to take sand out of this. So the previous owner was taking sand and just selling it. So I don't know what's that. The previous owner interstation indicates that they were taking out a fill material and they've already, you see, I actually expressed that they want to help her remove it. So it must be somewhat of a good fill sand value because they, they have worked in a deal out to try to do that removal to assist them to get the site to where we can do something with it. That's satisfying your question, John. Well, yeah, it wasn't, yeah, it's based, I'm just looking to understand the project before I start asking questions, but. Okay. I guess the only thing John that I want to emphasize is that there's, as soon as you look at it really, well, they're coming off the back. So one would think like we're grading into the wetland, but that's not the case. I understand. So, so I guess that's the only clarification for other board members, even though like I'm sure that you understand it. You know, the way I explained it, I just want to make sure everybody else understands it as well. So if anybody else has any other questions, I'll be trying to, I'll be happy to try to elaborate on that. Okay. DRB members questions. Should I just keep going, Pete? Yep. So the building that's going there or what's being stored on the site? Is it vehicles like you showed. Before and whose vehicles are they that are being stored there? Is it brand new? Yeah. So you, it's going to be used vehicles that are going to be stored on the site. Are they for sale? Yes. For sale. Yes. Will you be selling them from this site or are they being stored for other people who are selling them? Yeah. The green state is the one selling them. Correct. Yeah. And the building that's going on the site. What is, what is the purpose of that building? That building is going to be for just general maintenance and for, you know, a little bit of staffing. So it's a repair garage or a service garage, or is it a sales office? They're going to have lists and they're going to be some service. Well, only for the cars that they're working on, not for, you know, it's not going to be open for business for everybody, just for their cars. Will you be. So, so is the general public going in and out of that building? No. No. So there's the people are selling or buying the cars there. Where are the people that are selling them working out of? No. The people that arrive that are going to buy a vehicle, you know, the ideas that are going to come into the dealership and look at vehicles and, you know, hopefully buy, you know, the vehicle from them, but. They're only going to service the vehicles that, you know, they're bringing in on there a lot. Like it's not going to be like a garage like open for business for anybody to come. So is this a car dealership? Yes. I see. Does it. Was that stated in the report here? I mean, it's just sound like it was just a storage facility. Well, the car a lot is, um, it's a storage lot with a building. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So it's a storage lot with a building. To store their vehicles on for. You know, for. For. For a card. Yeah. Sounds like a car dealership. Yes. If you look in the use section. I didn't, I didn't state that explicitly, but in the use section of the staff report, I mean, it's going to be basically very similar to the use that's next door like earthy cars, except as you can see from the ortho 4 today you're looking at right now we're we're not allowed to park vehicles like right on the street there so that's why we're going to re-grade the parking lot so that we can stay 35 feet away and provide the features that we show on the plan so I mean it's a great location as far as visibility and whatnot and we know that we're tight so we're going to try to limit trips in and out but with the room that we have we want to put a small building in and these folks want to work on some vehicles for themselves and and yeah treat it as a as a dealership the other reason I didn't show parking spaces and I say it's a car lot is because of the example I showed you like we don't want to be held to like strict parking standards with traditional spacing because otherwise we won't be able to fit the cars on there like we want to right well I can see that the image you have up there now is not not being favorable to your neighbor who's clearly parking in the road right away um no it's not super favorable for sure but you know they're they're not on the chopping block here and I didn't specifically to bash them I mean it is what it is it's like we're in for you know redevelopment so you know as such we try to play by the rules as best as we can so I think it was very clear staff did a great job explaining to us that we need to preserve at 35 feet I think there was a little bit of pushback but um talking to my clients I I suggested that we put a stormwater feature there even though we don't need a formal state stormwater permit and try to do something so when people are driving by that new rope configuration that's on the right of that plan um you know they're going to have something a little bit more appealing than um just gravel so the the the plan if you come in for a dp that those that that'll show the new road uh configuration I assume and yeah I mean if you can is there is there am I share screen can you just arrow to the right can can you just slide over she's just pan over yeah keep going to the right up a little bit above the legend yeah so that that's what it's going to look like so that's the v-trans configuration and what that's going to look like and then I'd like to see it all in one plan and not have to imagine overlaying them in my own head no we can definitely that can't that can't happen now we can we can put that configuration on there it's just hardly the ortho photo but yeah I can we can uh we can overlay that configuration right on the main plan or we can provide a third sheet perhaps just because you've seen this one but that's that's not a problem we can do well then I mean we're talking about it at dp so how did you decide how did you decide where to put the um the access point here um it seems like a pretty tricky site um given the the the location of the traffic signals um and the traffic patterns to come up with a safe spot to be pulling in and out of here um with the you know vehicles perhaps that people aren't used to driving and uh that is a great question job and I can tell you that we've been feuding with v-trans on this for a long time and we've had several site meetings and it's my opinion that we should have two access points to this site but they disagree and they say that they don't want to mess with their bus terminal and the unfortunate part is my understanding and talking to anesthesia about this a lot uh v-trans bought rights to this property and we can't have a second access is what v-trans is telling us um and it makes the most sense to have it where it is because americast is kind of in the same general area and they're they they they and they and they share that access so my client has decided not to fight v-trans any further and concede and and go with the one access point that is basically the existing location now so they say that they they've sent us all this correspondence that they own the rights to the easterly side where the bus terminal is that they bought that from andriss I believe this is the guy's name that owned it prior to a bit of my clients that I work with and so for those reasons um we will not be able to have a second access now what even the single access though um frequently we hear desires from dpw or other places to to have add new driveways or new streets come in opposite existing roads um is there a reason why you wouldn't put it where there's already a signalized light that would allow people to perhaps enter that intersection safely um on this property right now we're combining two parcels um as a proper as part of the property line adjustment so we don't own any property uh next door and I get americast from what my client says they're very you know they're pretty decent people to own the access with but americast is still going to continue to have an access there and that's the only logical spot that we can see that we can get in and out of our property uh because there's we don't own any any land you know westerly of of this location right i'm just wondering why you wouldn't come in at the intersection with industrial have where there's a traffic already we talked about that with v-trans and we sent them I think we sent them several different versions of plants but um this is where they are agreeing to informally that said that they're going to give us an access because it's an existing access and there's proximity issues with being right at the intersection because if the movement goes basically there's no light to say go on our property so uh I believe what's going to happen is our v-trans permit is going to say you're exiting right and you're coming in from the west so you'd have you you can't make a left turn from where you are is that what you're saying left turn now it's going to be pretty tough I would agree a left turn in isn't going to be a very much fun either yeah realistically what's going to happen is everybody is going to figure it out and just go drive and turn around and come back I mean I see it happen on Susie Wilson in Essex I see it happen over here you know by our office in a several locations I think it's just inevitable I mean some places you just know that are really tough to get in and out you know v-trans we've had well yeah I don't want to get nasty about it but v-trans they've been very nice but so John isn't pretty hard on the axis so you know I was trying to be sure sharing access is the best option I feel we have sorry sorry you're up you there so I'm trying to be respectful of you know letting questions go but this is isn't this a state highway there isn't doesn't it doesn't be trans control access so I don't think it's in I don't think it's in the drb's purview to continue this line of questioning it's not something we control yeah I just don't think that this is a very safe way to go out and it's not improving an existing horrible intersection so I just don't want to be a contributing factor to that I just want to make sure that we're doing what we can I appreciate your your comment so we should we should I guess move on okay other questions please hi this is Nathan Andrews just a question on the the proposed light landscaping that that separates 2a from your lot is that continuous across the the entire frontage and is it also raised with a curb I'm just trying to understand if it's are people still going to be able to even though you're not granted access potentially drive across that or yes or no the reason that we're creating a stormwater feature by the contours that you see on plan one or the plan that shows the storage lot the reason that we're deciding to do the stormwater feature is really two fold one it's going to create a three foot depression there so you're really not going to want to drive across it and then two is going to create a stormwater feature so we're really trying to direct traffic in the existing proposed 24 foot wide accesses which is for all intended purposes where the existing access is now and obviously that green building that you see in the photographs it's very close to the road and so right there in the plan that you're staring at says existing building to be removed in this perspective it just shows how close that building is to the road but obviously it also offers the DRB a good perspective about all the land that we'll be getting in the back okay so that's just rip wrap type sunken it's going to be a three foot impression for stormwater to infiltrate and it's also going to serve as a delineator for to direct you know people away so you're if you drive by I mean you're going to see a three foot big depression there and then we want to landscape each end of it that it's out of the sort of wet area just to provide sort of something visual you can see you know to provide the entry where we're going to leave a little bit of area that's raised with some landscaping on each side to sort of kind of demark that area if you will so there's there's nothing there to protect this lot then from say someone coming on industrial at a high speed this happened in this this lot once before in the past where they blew into the uh the old tim snack shack that was there is there any protection built in yeah the protection is they're going to they're going to hit the three foot embankment and they're going to they're going to protect that's going to protect our property I mean that's the way I look at it um we sorry in bank or guard rail it could be even less and less of a buffer but I think creating that depression is going to basically if anybody goes you know really sorry is it an embankment or a depression the depression okay I'm just saying like you know I guess on what I'm saying is it's going to go down and come back up and so somebody that kind of knows down in and it would well it'd probably do a lot of damage to their vehicle but it'd be a lot better than putting up a guard rail the guard rail is um well those are the types of things that if somebody is going super fast and crazy that those are the kind of things that okay yeah we're getting enough aot stuff here again but and I know you don't necessarily kind of trying to avoid committing to a certain number of of parking spaces here but can you tell us for this storage lot how many cars you're envisioning having in the storage lot potentially and then how many normal and you have what's the seven spots is it just seven spots for retail and employees there plus the storage I think the envisioning is that those seven spots in the front are really to park um you know the vehicles that you want to start yeah okay the vehicles that you know they're going to be the most displayed and then the other one will be the storage lot will be really just to um put them in a place where you know they can be moved around and worked on or you know buffed up and and and basically prepared for sale okay and the customer parking is over to the uh the west I guess okay got it yeah thank you yep okay thank you uh any other questions yeah just one question uh have you considered where your snow uh storage is going to be uh the snow storage we're going to utilize the swell that we're creating basically the depression that we're creating so three feet deep we're envisioning that to be you know more than ample amount of room we're creating a tremendous amount 35 feet way more than we need um and then there's no there's no reconnection and we're not asking to be reconnected to anybody's stormwater system so it's basically going to be an infiltration and we want to put our snow there because there's really no other spot and if we don't have enough room we'd have to haul it out but looking at the area in our calculations there's going to be more than ample room for snow there I mean we didn't call it out as such but um I think people are reluctant to say this is the snow storage but snow storage you know logically that's where it's going to have to go because we're fighting a in you know an embankment against us basically we're going to be climbing at three on one in the back and so you know we can't push up against the bank and we're trying to maximize our area so we really don't want snow to be in the back okay just to just point just a note no I know that's a great question and we did think about that so we wanted to give you the correct answer I mean Paul I mean from what I'm understanding is that the the vast majority of this lot's going to be full of cars which it's going to be hard to plow um so I'm not sure how much snow you're actually plowing yeah I think you're going to have to move vehicles around and maybe like a small snow blower but I mean it's their storage lot and they're the ones that want to park cars on it so I feel like you know they're going to figure that stuff out I don't think we got to figure that out for them ahead of time but um yeah do you guys usually like yeah move some vehicles around plow it move the vehicles around plow it as need be so so what do you anticipate that the height of that snow storage would be during a significant snowstorm like say two feet of snow because I'm envisioning if somebody were to be driving east on us too and there just been a a significant snowfall and that stormwater retention depression were filled with snow there would be essentially kind of a bank of snow that you would be driving by on your right if you were heading east um what what do you forecast or predict that that the height of that snow storage area would be Carl I think we're going to be about level or maybe like a really big storm of foot above so I might feel the three feet for a few days um I last major storm we had it was just out of control like my snow blower was broke I feel this is kind of pertinent um somebody came over and helped and just pushed all the snow because they wanted to do it quick and I had a snow bank that was like six feet tall but because they push it all in one spot when you're spreading it out and you don't have this much area to work with um based on just looking at the area it's going to fill three feet and maybe like another half a foot or a foot or so in a snow event in the snow event that size just by volume so it might be like you know when you pass by it's you're still going to see the building and stuff we're thinking it's going to be like basically four feet so three feet and maybe another foot or so um but then it's going to you know basically infiltrate the next time we get a thaw which we get a lot of thaws um it's going to disappear pretty quick other questions from the drb my question is probably more from melinda you know if uh when v-trans is doing this are they going to put a sidewalk in that area too um yeah they are uh there let's see if you look over there uh their sidewalk is looks like it's going to go all the way back to here okay i see it and then it this is where the bus stop is so it's going to end right there so i think melinda um i i don't know if it even matters but my client was just kind of whispering to me that she thinks it's like some sort of bike path or something but i mean sidewalk bike path um so yeah yeah multi-use path yeah and it's in there right away so um one of the things that v-trans emphasize to us is they had a storm water feature so if you just scroll up a little bit i that's why i shorted on this plan it was really to share this information with v-trans if you slide up the other way um there's another inset right there um i pointed out it said swell sea positioning on plan left will not interfere with this project so they were saying that they had this eight foot device that was part of their grand scheme and so we're looking to do our own um you know southerly of that but uh they wanted me to put that on the plan well that's what i agreed to do on the plan so that we could emphasize that we're not going to have an impact on this feature that they're creating for their sidewalk in their road so that that really hinders us even more but because the town of wilson requires a 35 foot setback we're we're losing basically 35 feet of our land in the fry anyways so um anyways we're going to have a lot of storm water feature on this property so okay okay other questions this is dav turner just one quick more uh will the storage area be paved or will it be gravel i don't remember if i saw they wanted they want to pay yeah they wanted to yeah once they get one cc once they're done with all the road improvements the intention is to come in and uh you know gravel and and pay it okay thank you welcome thank you okay any questions from the public seeing any raised hands and i've got no chance i'm requesting speak okay last chance for our drb members for questions i'm good okay carl any last comments well i uh p i just wanted to say thank you i think you did a great job um i just uh i got a little off tangent there about the v-trans thing i know it's a big component of this project and uh i'd like to to relate to the board how how much struggles we've had with v-trans but they've been great but it's just i guess that that's all i need to say i think we've killed it here uh with v-trans but them owning the rights to the easterly side of our property is not something my client knew and uh i was not aware of it and at sale i just felt like that's really unjust but um you know that's that's that's that's the way it rolls i i feel like we got no other option and to go with the option that we have so it seems like that's predominantly the biggest sort of concern here um but v-trans like you said they got the final say so if we get our permit from v-trans i think um i think everybody's hopefully gonna have to be okay with it it's not ideal i i think we all know that but um you know it's not fair to my clients that own a piece of property in willisson with this high profile and not be able to do anything with it either so that that's that's all i have to say thank you p okay thank you uh we are gonna close dp 22-06 at 752 thank you for coming thank you okay next up is agenda item number three communication final plans and other business uh there were two comment letters that were received uh regarding the windswept farm property that has not made it to the drb yet it's uh it's being discussed at some level at the planning commission um at this point the drb acknowledges receipt of those letters um if and when there is a pre-application for that property those letters will also go into the official record of that application um but at this point in time the drb is not going to take any action other than acknowledgement of receipt with that being said we're going to go into uh app 22-01 which is the appeal of the certificate of compliance uh 22-09 at 1505 old stage road and melinda help me procedurally on this please um sure so um um this appeal was heard um a few months ago i don't remember the exact date but at that time the drb asked staff to work with the appellant um the appellee rather to um develop a revised landscaping plan and you recommended that the um appellee uh bring that plan back to you so that you can provide some feedback um as to whether you think that it um meets the criteria of the bylaw um so so yeah that's you know procedurally um there doesn't need to be like a vote this is not like an official proceeding but you're simply um providing feedback to the applicant about i mean not the applicant the appellee about his landscaping plan um if you'd like i can bring up bring it up on the screen uh sure okay uh let's see hold on this before you do that uh keith you i see your i see your face uh if you would identify yourself uh for the record please and your address sure keith feeling 1505 old stage rote wellston thank you uh go ahead melinda bring the uh drawing up if you would please okay great so so keith if you could walk walk the drb uh through this plan and uh i think i've got a handle on it but if you could walk the group through what this plan represents that would be appreciated so when we applied for the original ceo um the plan didn't have all of this on here um so on the on the right uh there were only three g's uh those are the silky willows um we ended up planting 10 there um and then also the plan didn't have the five spruces to the left of the driveway and i've added six more each's uh which are more of the red ozier dogwood um and then kind of just to the left of the driveway there's a little bit of space there to leave um adequate visibility when entering and exiting the driveway and then let's see farther over on the left there have been some keep going over to the left there have been some more invasives identified there which have been flagged off in green which i will be removing um and then you know the the other part to the left of the driveway i'm proposing that uh the understory be planted with native grasses and wildflowers um so that that can fill in um and then you know to be brush hogged once once or twice a year uh just the low-lying stuff uh to allow that to spread and keep the buckthorn and invasives from kind of growing back up okay so um you you uh in our packet is a communication that you had with staff uh in which you made a statement that confused me and i want to get clarification from you um you said the most recently submitted plan to be reviewed on 3812 i assume that meant 3822 uh includes the following additional plantings from the original approved plan by the zoning administrator and you've got six dogwoods five furs seven willows and then you note that the seven willows have already been planted now when you look at this plan however in the key on the top left um you you indicate uh existing shrubs planted in fall 2021 so those are in conflict on the plan you're saying that those uh that that series of plants were planted but in your letter uh well it's actually an email uh dated march 8th uh which was today you said that only the willows were planted so uh could you clarify please yeah yeah for sure um so the original the plan that i had submitted with the final co that was signed off only had three of those silk willows at the time when i planted them i did 10 of them instead so i'm just trying to emphasize that at that point i felt like it was inadequate we went over above and beyond what matt had required me to do and i'd planted all 10 i just wanted to highlight that okay so p can i make sure i'm understanding that yeah i didn't follow it either so please please ask i'm understanding that you had you had you had proposed planting three you actually planted 10 correct and so now those are being shown on this plan is existing because they're already planted so what i'm not clear on is which of these items on this plan are not yet planted and will be planted in addition to those 10 g's that are on the on they i assume they're all the g's to the right of the driveway yeah the g's are all planted those are the silky willows those are in um so the five spruces and i don't see spruce on the balsam fir sorry okay so those are new yeah and then proposed i should say proposed yeah and now whoever's controlling the mouse kind of go down just a little bit to the right those six h's which are red osier dogwood those are the additional plantings as well so the dogwoods are proposed along with the furs yes along with the furs yep and what about the white pine and the hemlock those have already been planted okay so so keith part of the part of the confusion here is is you've submitted a plan that says existing shrubs planted in fall 2021 and yet now your testimony is that not all those have been planted and so um you know this is this this shouldn't take the as as the amount of clarifying questions that we've had to ask to decide what was in and what was not in okay oh my yeah my my apologies for not making that more clear i yeah i i tried to do the h's so that it was all the same but yeah but do you guys understand what the additional proposal is now yes okay um one thing that's missing on this plan is is uh the size of the plantings that uh have either been planted or proposed to be planted typically on landscaping plants the size of the of the to be planted item is shown and when you say size are you referring to mature size no size at size at planting so so if you're going to put in a tree it's usually measured by caliber um i there's been and where i'm going with this i'll be very transparent is some of the letters from um from from uh from some neighbors and some that are not neighbors have alleged that uh that the trees have been very small in the neighborhood of an inch in height when planted and so i'm trying to get some testimony from you to give me a sense of the size of the plantings when they went in the ground sure yeah and and let me explain on that one so the they're referring to the g's so the silky willows the only way to purchase those are by a live steak um which is a cutting um from an existing willow shrub um and and i purchased them from a a Vermont willow tree farm or shrub farm the way that you do that the cutting is about 10 inches you put about seven inches down into the ground three inches above they're fast growers so within three years i was told they should be five by five five foot by five foot plants um and the landscape designer insisted on these because this is such a challenging location um that you can't just put anything in there um and and so we found the g's and what yes yeah okay thank you you're welcome that was helpful it is but Pete it doesn't um it doesn't answer that it's the same question you asked which is with for the the the um dogwoods for example how big are those are those a five gallon um i mean frequently shrubs or bushes will be measured by the size of the pot that they are purchased in sure the ones that are in are in now and i will put so the ones that are in right now are was i i got them from gardener supply um they were in i don't know i'm going to say that they're probably two to three feet tall two to three feet wide and then the the next set of uh each is red oaks or dogwoods i'm getting from the intervail and those are supposed to be four to five feet tall okay okay that's that's helpful and and the the balsam furs um those would be measured into the diameter of the of the trunk unless they're just a small potted item unless they are but yeah so i'm what's your intent there yeah so my intent there is to get him either a gardener's or a found a tree farm out and eat him um i don't know if caliber of trunk is the the typical measurement i see on these is just height um so i'm looking to get something that's in the range of of three to five feet okay all right any uh any other questions by the d rv members the only question i have is um down past where you've done the planting now you're saying you're going to go in and remove more trees and shrubs from there the the invasives yes and they're all flagged right now currently on on site and are you going to put more plantings in there the intention to or no no that play that area is pretty dense as is okay thank you um i mean dave i think that's a great question though and that this whole thing came up when when the invasives were removed and there was no plan in place ahead of time to do that um pete i don't know what you're thinking but uh whether that's like or melinda i mean is is a plan going to be required um when that happens or prior to that happening uh well i think i mean how is it any different yeah it raises a question um i wouldn't recommend removing anything else personally um um i think that's up to you well i mean we remember this i remember this from the first hearing in that there is direction um out there to remove these invasive species that there is a desire uh from somewhere to to have them not here um so i guess the the my recollection here is that we this caused a problem because it was essentially eliminating a portion of the buffer that exists um and therefore there should be some plan to demonstrate that there will be a buffer remaining after that's removed and if that means a survey that shows which what what's going to still be there um that seems like something that should be run past the zoning administrator prior to doing that just like the first timer up i i think i would categorize i think i would categorize that as uh as what wasn't done the first time around right right or what we're completing right now yes um yeah yeah anyway i mean the rules haven't changed and so if there are going to be more of these things removed i think the process that should have been followed the first time will apply here i guess that would be the direction i would i would propose the rest of the drb members that we we asked the the administrators to uh to take care of so can i can i ask so are you referring to working with the zoning administrator on this or go working with the drb on this because when we did the initial clearing we worked with the zoning administrator on it and now we're here so i respectfully ask for clarification because i don't think we're talking about the same thing um when when you say you you worked with the zoning administrator you you did not and correct me if i'm wrong you you did not before eliminating the invasive species you did not call the zoning administrator out uh to comment on what you are going to take out you you had that conversation with the zoning administrator after removal of the invasive species do i have that correct no so the right side of the driveway yes we removed it first before i touched the left side of the driveway matt met me on site and told me specifically what we did on the right side of the driveway is fine and i told him i'm going to do the same on the left and he said that is fine okay thank you for that clarification yeah okay other questions by the drb keith what's the what is the mature height of the silky willow it looks like there are a few different varieties out there i found uh the maybe the nursery you got them from and if if they are just cuttings and they take you know it looks like on the left of your driveway you've you've beefed it up and you know um but the right side there's not much there so if those don't take or they don't turn into something then the these other uh residents that have written in with concerns would would have a valid concern there uh 10 to 15 feet and it can you describe again it's a cutting or it has an actual root ball like it's no you can't buy them with a root ball so they're they're cuttings often so if you i can send you guys information on where i bought them from and how they explain how they grow um if you like willows are very fast growers okay thanks and well these and again i'm not familiar with silky willows but starting as a cutting but they're going to i assume they're going to bush out as a as a piece of shrubbery that's you're saying 10 to 15 feet high and and how big in diameter and how close to the ground will they will they push out so i was told that within three years they should be five by five round and will they grow to be again are they going to be 15 by 15 or are they going to be five by 15 when they get full grown i'm sure they all vary in size but i was told 10 to 15 foot round round tall okay any other questions by the drv okay uh comments from the public please raise your hand and we'll call you call you uh one by one raise your virtual hand i'm not seeing any raised hands virtual or otherwise um from members of the public uh marsha is just uh marsha here is just texted me so i think she wants to make a comment so marsha if you could uh unmute yourself and state your name and address for making your comment so the the unmute button is is in the sort of bottom left corner of the zoom screen um did you want to make that comment i'm trying okay great okay you got it i got it yep yep okay um yeah marsha you're a 1694 old stage road i would like to address the fact that mr felon still continues to expect to be able to moe one letter that he sent to the drb said it would be along his driveway and along the edge of the road tonight he said he expects to brush hog throughout the whole area and doing that will certainly interfere with any visual barrier melinda what language is in the bylaws relative to uh this topic did we lose melinda i think she's muted yeah sorry um i'm bringing up the bylaw language right now thank you yeah i just want to make sure that we're following the rules and we're not ruling on something that's outside of the uh the published rules of engagement yeah just bear with me here that's okay okay um 2322 requires functional existing vegetation be retained wherever possible um and existing vegetation that can effectively serve the landscaping function of listen the introduction shall be retained the extent possible um must okay create maintain the and enhance the appearance and character of individual developments in the community um a landscape buffer composed primarily of existing woodland or forest must be of sufficient height and density to provide an effective visual buffer so it doesn't say barrier um the landscaping plan shall also propose supplemental new plantings where the existing vegetation is too thin to be an effective visual buffer um so so yeah i mean basically it you know it's it's a visual buffer so it's more of like a softening than a barrier meaning it doesn't have to be the the house and the development doesn't have to be invisible just has to be buffered and buffer is is buffered defined good question because you know mr. Hemmelgarn has a a a buffer so to speak and his background zoom screen and that's a buffer is that what to what level of of uh impact does that have well we could debate that all night and you know it's probably not it's probably not defined all right but mr christensen has a barrier mr christensen has a barrier all right guys you know we have debated this all night we debated this when they when that construction outfit on south brownl road decided they wanted to thin out their barrier from the developer from the individual who lived across the street from the auto repair store we we went through this whole thing about what constitutes a barrier and what constitutes just a screening we already been here so the question the question that i asked melinda the research is um is there any language in the bylaw relative to seasonal cutback um or is it left silent and and assumed best practice that's really the question at hand you know it's really it's really left silent um and there is this little call out to drb discretion um call you know asking the drb to consider the context of the surroundings um determining what type of landscape buffer will be appropriate in a particular context so okay thank you thank you melinda okay are there any other public comments uh there's no other raised hands and i've not had any other chats requesting speak okay um so we will discuss this in deliberation and keith you can call melinda in the morning and uh and get guidance um uh and input from what our decision uh was and uh if there are any other comments from the public portion of this i'm going to close discussion on this topic okay uh so with that said um we are going to go now into a deliberative session it's 822 simon if you could uh please put people in a waiting room for those who want to wait and we will deliberate thank you welcome uh the town of wilson development review board is out of deliberative session it's 903 and uh for the record i'd like to clarify that i had recognized two letters uh related to the windswept farm um project that is being considered outside of the drb at this point uh i was incorrect uh and there were actually three letters that have been received so the record should reflect three letters received and today peak one one additional clarification is that it's not really a windswept farm application it's the adjacent to the property the grazer property great thank you john yep okay all right uh first up is dp 22-06 is there a motion yeah simon would you mind putting up the notes i should have wrote them down but i didn't no worries okay as authorized by wdb 6.6.3 i david turner the wilson development review board having reviewed the application submitted and all accompanying materials including the recommendations of the town staff and advisory boards required to comment on this application by the wilson development by-law and having heard and duly considered the testimony presented at the public hearing of march 8 2022 accept the recommendations for dp 22-06 and authorize this application to move forward to discretionary permit review and we're going to add a couple more recommendations recommendation number four will read the discretionary permit must clearly state the intended use of the proposed development and recommendation number five will read the front property line is parallel to route two thank you david is there a second second john hemmelgarten seconds uh any further discussion well okay uh yay or nay paul christensen yay john hemmelgarten yay nate andrew's yay david turner yay uh the chair is a yay five in favor non-opposed motion carries uh is there a motion to approve the meeting minutes dated february 22nd 2022 so moved thank you paul is there a second i'll second it thank you dave uh any discussion no uh yay or nay paul yay john okay nate yay dave yay chairs a yay five in favor non-opposed motion carries uh is there any other any further business to bring forth at this time who sells girl scout cookies girl scouts yes no no is that anyone anyone got girl scouts is what i'm saying oh well i got mine i got mine through the barn at windswept farm subtle oh no all right uh is there a motion to adjourn so be it okay thank you everybody um i appreciate appreciate your support have a good evening