 I'd like to mention that on the set of the artist, the year I was born, it's my third time seated at that high, as should be Stardust by David Rusev. About that story, which Balubioe last time, is with the Morkland Institute for Contemporary Finish, our second festival in the world of artistic director for Haika, a TVA festival, time-based art, which is one way of describing the elusive magic that we're discussing, theatre and beyond. This conversation I hope will engage some of you that you'll feel free to jump in. I know as I look out there I see people who are working in live arts, but are animators, are visual theatre people, are playwrights, are choreographers, a mix. And I think that the festival this year tries to go beyond in specific definitions and bring together good parts, finding new ways to tell a story or express an idea that is inspired by the way people talk about that this morning. And to continue that a bit more, David, first I would like to... Before we start, can you mention how we're working with... Oh, yes. I hope it doesn't prevent you from speaking up that we are live streaming courtesy of HowlRound, which is a project of the theatre commons, which is a project of ArtsEmerson, related to Emerson College. And you'll create to tell people that they can, if not join the conversation, please listen and do it at HowlRound.com. David, I've had the great pleasure of seeing your work and presenting it for quite some time. And have always thought of you as a choreographer, of course, of a thriller, just something gothic novelist. I've asked a storyteller with a very rich nuance, how do you... how do you do what you do? Of course you've described yourself as a choreographer, but how do you just remind yourself of... Oh, that's a really great question. Let's see. This isn't the day, but today... You know, sometimes it feels like a choreographer, for me, is kind of the most unique word to use, but I think of myself more as a storyteller who uses many modes and means to tell a story. So, for example, we start as... which is probably the most choreography I've ever had, at least for my own company. The dance may be dealing with the... I just think of the movement as kind of interpreting the subtext of the narrative, the emotional life of the character, but in the spine of the piece is definitely the character and the protagonist and his narrative, his very specific narrative that's sold in these text institutions. So probably even though I'm a movement-based artist, I tend to think of the work and whether it succeeds or not, and whether or not it's succeeding theatrically. And it's pretty challenging to try and figure out what to call it through the years. I think when you say I'm a dance artist, it has certain expectations. Not only aesthetically, but also about content. And when you say I'm a theater artist or a dance theater artist, that has certain expectations about physicality and vocabulary and the use of the night view as a dance-a-dance. It feels like you could offend everybody and please some at the same time, because it's, no matter what you call it, the interdisciplinarity of the work is fulfilling and also challenging expectations at the moment. Well said, that is true. It's hard to describe exactly why or how it sucks you in, as it matters by the end of the day, but it does so moving and poetic in that way. In fact, I was on the verge of tears more than once and was also last night a guy that I can't explain exactly why. You're working with an invented language, which is a very interesting example of how theater does not necessarily confine itself to words, to storytelling in a traditional sense. It's an opera that you invented, yet it's also a theatrical event. Do you think that there is a story specifically there? Why did I get those tingles? There's a simple story that, I mean, after a lot of works with translation, we decided that we should do something without language. So we found this great composer Paul Barker, he's a British, hello? So anyway, so we have found this great composer that he's working without non-language or invented language, and we thought that it was the moment for us to work with that because we have been traveling a lot with translations and, for example, there's a play that we used to present in the language of the country, and in just 30% of it. So if you want to be part of the company, you have to know any language, or you have to talk very badly about languages. So we learned just some phrases, but then we realized that we need that, this new step. And we found this composer, he was living in Mexico for a while. We were trying to connect both companies to work, and finally when he went back to London, it was the right moment to do it, so we had to spend a lot of money to bring him to Mexico. But anyway, it was better because he just came for a while, he made some exercises with our actors, and they destroyed his music, he went back and did compositions, so he wrote for specific voices of the actors. I mean, so he was very worried because these actors or these singers, they weren't the normal singers that could sing all that he could wrote. So he was shocked, but at the end he found that these actors are open to do anything. So as a normal singer, we'll be afraid of doing something wrong, but the actors, they are not. So they are more singers, both of their own technique or their own style, I would say. So finally, we have this very complex music score, because we have been doing it for many months. So now it's very, very complex. There's a professional singer that tries to sing, it's very, very complex. So there was two decisions to use this language. First, because this work was developed very near to the inside of the actors, because we were very closely to therapy processes where they bring to the room their problems, but with this invented language, they could be talking about this, they could share that without being exposed. So the action or the plot is quite simple. It's just a group of artists convoked by a director and they have to put to prepare a new music score for a concert. That's quite simple. So you will see that there is also to invite the audience to the room to watch this process. Because Paul Barker and I, we decided to do something from the very beginning without nothing. The previous play, the one that you can understand most of the work, is we took like five years of research on these items, but with this we decided we don't have anything. So we were in front of six actors and he was like asking me, let's do something. I don't know. We started without knowing anything. We were just following the size of the actors to do something with music. At the end we have a very simple plot. That is these differences of capacities that makes a lot of confrontations between the participants and the concert. But there is to invite the audience to see this process. This process that could be everywhere in an office, not just in an artistic process. To join and to see this process, let's say the audience, the first audience, the audition, the rehearsal in the middle, and the last rehearsal before the presentation. That sounds like a simple structure, as you described it that way. To be honest, I've always preferred opera that's not in English because the word sounds silly. So the idea that you use invented language is a treat for me. I was Catholic once, and occasionally would attend a service that was in Latin. I liked it much better that way. We spoke recently about ritual and theatre or performance as a ritual. Some of the structures of our art forms are fairly prescribed. The symphony is slow and then fast and then slow. A story has an exposition and then a conflict and then a resolution, a danger mark. Ritual is another ultimate structure. In a new work you're developing, you're looking at an ancient form, a morality place, which were, in a way, almost a religious experience or meant to be overstated. Is a ritual a structure in itself? I would like to talk about spiritual things or mystic things in theatre. I'm always seen as the most people my producer from Europe. They are always like, oh, they are from Mexico. They think this thing about spirituality is actually part of our daily life. My spiritual search is now, I'm being brave because it's not religious, I call it. It's just spiritual. It's the new search that I'm trying to talk also with my actors. It's the first time that I'm talking about this thing with so many people. Because I hope you understand. I have this rule, we are used to have a form of working, but now to talk about these things is quite complex, you know? Because also you have to have a lot of respect. It could also be a lot of work in stores. So I have, for my new play, I form a group of working actors. And until now we have been working for eight months. Without touching the play, just talking about other issues and providing them for other kind of approaching. That it has a lot of forces, I would say in the 60s or 70s. There was a lot of theatre makers that all these ideas of the ritual or the mystic part could be part of the creation. For now I will start with the play. But first I have to talk with them about other things. First to make a group. It's a long way to make a group. Eight months working almost daily. Just a way of working. A different way of working, that's the idea. And maybe it will be more important for them the process that they resolve. The presenters often, Angela, have to think a lot about the result eventually. You just finished a festival in which, in the course of two weeks, you had a variety of international artists working in dance and theatre and performance art. It was also a visual arts program. And so during that time, you had a lot of opportunities to describe what it was that moved you to invite this or that project. What sort of things did you say in response to the project? It's interesting that ritual should come up in this conversation so quickly. Because I think the festival really adds a ritual. And I think even this weekend you feel it. It's a condensed time frame in which people are coming together in these shared experiences. Moving through this fully immersive scenario, this immersive platform of artists working in a multitude of disciplines and styles. It's a place in which people are experimenting. We often talk about how something experimental. But I really feel like people are, as audience members, they are going into multiple artistic viewpoints and styles. They're walking into warehouses and engaging in performance art. They're walking into galleries and installations. They're moving through multiple timers and spaces and having shared experiences. Many of them are doing it together. And that's one of the beautiful things about the work. In terms of why certain artists, I think all of us are asking these questions of curators. There's extraordinary artists everywhere. In this context with you guys, for so many years, it's just phenomenal to be here. You're going to be up for so many months for so many years. For me it's about, I'm looking and searching for those artists who are theorists. Artists who are searching. I'd rather work with artists who are just so committed to the questioning and the searching and their fearless investigations around form, around a concept, around an idea, around a collaboration. Those are the kinds of projects that artists want to work with. TVA is that platform. That people who are part of it, they don't have to define themselves by a particular category. It's one of the few places why I wanted to work there. It's one of the few places that you can be an artist. Maybe you're coming from a particular lineage of a particular discipline and honor that, but you can be seen in a different context. You can be seen in a broader context. I think it's imperative for our discipline right now, for theater in particular, to not be isolated, to be in a context in which artists are just searching and searching. That's what comes from me and what's one of the most productive and fruitful places around this conversation. I think other things that I was looking for, I look for, this is a super elusive term, but I think about where it's urgent. I'm looking for a perspective that's super subjective. I have all my artistic criteria. I'm definitely, from my realization, I work really about my experimental forms and ideas, new forms, new concepts. At the same time, I always think about it. Is this urgent? How is this landing my community? How am I provoking? How am I pushing? How am I creating a disruption? And will this work create a disruption? What does it mean to have this range of work existing in that 10 days? What is the conversation between, as people are moving through multiple spaces, through the warehouse, through the installation, through the theater space, at the opera space, at the rehearsal studio, and converging in our late night hug, what is this accumulation of experiences and what is this accumulation of artistic points of view? And so I start to then think about what is that dialogue between disciplines, forms and concepts and how these projects, these ideas sit together. And what is that communicating as a whole? And then we get back to that sense of urgency. But ritual-less. In this edition, I was actually looking for intimate rituals that felt really personal and emotional and that is just not sexy in a contemporary art center context right now. At all. That's just a little bit of something that I was thinking about. Would you make me think of something that I wanted to say? Because you use this urgent art. I like this termination for work. I was thinking in a useful art that is one of my concerns now, that the art is useful for the other audience. I like the urgent art. But for me, useful also, I feel like, can we have more spaces where it's actually useful for artists to be free in their machinations? Untethered, right? And free to explore whatever discipline they want to. Whatever, you know, whatever, if it's an artist, it's working in text and working in individual disciplines or working in other things. We don't even talk about it anymore. Can we be in a place where the notion that it's a generative doesn't even matter because that's just who we are? We're becoming how more places where multiplicity is the norm and it ceases to be the conversation. And that's useful. Fearlessness implies taking risks. And sometimes taking risks requires a great deal of preparation. David, you're telling a very personal story. Thanks to the support structures, the commissioners of the National Dance Project, you were able to spend a fair amount of time with the development of this piece. Almost three years, I believe. That's a lot of time to be exploring a story so close to your own. Scary, but essentially. Yeah, we were really lucky. And the cast remained together for three years. And it was really crucial, actually, for a lot of the reasons that were mentioned. I really love the idea of inventing language. Because to me, that's what risk-taking is about. And I wish it weren't true, but it feels like every piece that I start, either on a micro level, as in how are we speaking to their voices in our lives, on the macro level of the piece as a whole, how does it convey the meaning? It's always about inventing the language for me and reinventing the language through which the piece will speak. And that means that each process is inherent and risky because we're trying to figure out, and for me, what I think about that is every piece has this different relationship between text, which is almost always inspired for, and its user narrative, and how you tell that is a reinvention of language every time. And it feels like with Stardust, one of the things that made it so risky was my presence on stage has always been such a vital part of that language. And it felt like that was a time for me not to be so vital to the invention of language and the performance of the piece. And my own narrative, usually autobiographical narrative, has always been kind of the core of the work. And I felt like this was the time and why it took a three-year process was we were, I was trying to take consciously and just in terms of the way the piece wanted to communicate so many different risks that each piece is an opportunity to, if not so much, reinvent, to reinvestigate. Methods, envelopes, communicating. I mean it's always about communication but how you communicate, how the work communicates is always different. And that's the one thing, in particular, the National Dance Project is so vital and the listeners and Red Cat offering us a space for technical residency before a modern premiere performance is that amount of time is so vital. And in particular, the interdisciplinary approach to this piece was very different from all of my other work. There's no direct reference to the narrative in the actual movement that's happening on stage. I think there's a single no-in-place character, there's no other-than-sounds, and so we're trying to eliminate emotional terrain live and the story is more specific than ever, probably, or more specifically narrative and the visual imagery is surreal and how is that being used to tell the story. So my point is that over time it took a while to figure out how these different modes of communicating on the heart, the brain would combine to tell the story and then at the core of it all it took three years working with my amazing dramaturg Nusberg to hone in on the narrative as the core of it. There was so much reinvention happening that I felt really honored to have the time to actually do it. Risky, you can take some time. I'm afraid that this story is just good. I mean, the irony is, I don't think that we're doing if it weren't so risky, but it doesn't feel great. It's only great, but that's why I feel it. No, it's not great. I guess I'm interested in some of the language that we constantly recycle all the time, but one is for me, and just when it already becomes, I started actually talking about it. I was like, what does it mean anymore? I'm kind of boring myself by saying it a lot, because one of the things I say a lot is how it was important to me. I also say it was taken a long time. I feel like I started to overuse the term of it. It's an old term. What does that really mean? Give me an example. When did I really do that? You've gotten the sense before, but not with this... What does it feel like? It's really awkward and uncomfortable, and I want to talk about that. I was still remarked that my idea of a school, the theater schools have to be destroyed, and also music schools. This has to be just art, setting art. Yesterday I was working with the musicians that you provide. Way musicians from Carats, but I was asking them just to shout, just to put with an arco. Excuse me? The bow. They have to shout, and it's so difficult to them just to do... And I told them that the way to notice an amateur is that they can do the half of the action. They even say that they don't... So I was dreaming a school that the musicians are taking acting classes. I mean, but not just like another class, or in a theater school where just singing is not just another class or a material. That is part of it. They have to develop us singers, or dancers, or actors at the same level. Because I'm still facing this problem. I used to have a long process that could be one year and a half, because I need to prepare my actors. The musicians have to become actors. The actors have to become musicians, or they have to learn everything because there's not enough people at least in Mexico. This whole idea that... I mean, at least for theater, because if there's no more borders, that's a CEO or a musician, right? To be able to do it. So that's my idea in terms of whether you see it in any audience. You often have to figure out how to define yourself too. As a... When being a presenter, a producer, or an artist, you're also a fundraiser. All the path. It's almost 20 years ago since there was a program in the National Endowment for the Arts here in the U.S. called InterArts, which over the course of approximately 10 years or so really did push and increase awareness of different ways of approaching the creation of art in general, especially investments in art centers. At about the same time that the InterArts program was eliminated, mostly as a result of the culture wars that were happening, sort of. They also eliminated all of the fellowships, choreographers for playwrights or solo performers as a category. The only direct funding to an individual, actually, that remains is to writers, because they present no risk to us whatsoever. When stepping in after the Lawson's fellowship program in the InterArts, there are exciting developments, such as the National Dance Project, which developed in that in more recent years, the National Theater Project. It's interesting to see how individual and important structures try to address a basic need. And I see some artists apply to both to see which one will go work. I don't know in Mexico what sources of support you go through. Are you also having to define yourself as a theater company one day and then another day as a new opera creator I would say a very good fund and the Ministry of Culture they have made an early institution called FONCA that is really exceptional in all of America. We don't have funds from the private just from the government. I mean, it's not enough, obviously, but it's a very good program and they have this way from where to put you. They are inventing up there because it's managed or applied to many artists they are open to change these rules. But it's very complex because they don't know how to name many works. So we used to apply for music or we are general for everything. We just have a grant that we ask for here for many years and finally we obtain it for music. So, I mean, it's normal that the mind always tries to do the things in different and marginal to select but now the artist is completely East. So, is this still a problem? Yeah, that's a really interesting challenge that I know from probably from Paul's side as an artist and presenters, I know I'm talking against that repeatedly. Sometimes it's like which category do I want to and a choreographer as you mentioned earlier, I usually go for that but nobody knows me as a choreographer but then the spine of the work is theatrical and just where do I apply but also I'd often gotten a feedback when I haven't gotten funded it depends on the makeup of the panel. Well, you're really close but probably next year there was enough dance in it over the next year you know, if I'm going for a body-based practice and so forth traditional dance so you kind of sometimes you feel like you're thinking and creating in an industry world but that for sometimes very valid reasons the world has to think in or is thinking more in general discipline and it has sometimes very practical implications of trying to maneuver and if I could put aside the stakes, it's great it's fun to be trying to be cunning about it how am I going to and sometimes it's very helpful, how am I going to think this project through so that it feels to a more theatrical a more theater-based which is helpful to my process often but more often than not it can be frustrating where you have to fit in You could use it I used to use it when I knew when I met at the center she would be like I'm based on an opera Yes, it's an opera It's so interesting to do I think why did I keep returning to trying to find the work of theatricality and the bottom line is I probably couldn't make a straight forward dancing I didn't have it and the challenges I'm a choreographer but even critically that's also where I had my most challenging moment which has been with dance criticism and audiences so it's an interesting but you know on a very practical level when we're applying for visas for international artists Adma the American musical artists you're required to get a letter from a union saying yes, it's okay they're not stealing jobs from U.S.ers but we all Adma is faster than actors' equity and turning the letter around so we always find people as ensemble performers as opposed to co-users actors but that's just a practical level It's interesting to expectations when you put the label on something across the board from buzzers to audiences to press they're so loaded sometimes I question whether it's a signifier do you say it's dance do you say it's theater and do you redefine it as a presenter or would love the artist to find it and sometimes it's so interesting in terms of how you use the verses of it but what does that mean I'm not going to go to that I will go to this based on just that one tag or one little symbol on a page because here at TVA we've presented a Croatian artist, Ivana Müller who owns herself as a Croat worker who lived in France now and she's been on a piece for many years but a lot of artists now like Mariano one piece might be a site-specific storefront piece the next might be a stage piece artists are rapidly shifting their practices with their new projects sometimes and you want to encourage that but how do we bring along an audience with that work too but so at the moment we didn't even travel with the piece it's a piece in which the audience are the performers it's in the round for 50 people and underneath you see their scripts and basically it's a run for a meeting of a play that she wrote for the audience and in the description of the book it's very important for her to be identified as a Croat worker that history and that training for you is still really significant and she wanted to have that as her signifier but the piece, like I said it's a theater piece for reading a play and so how many people did I lose because of that but what else did it shed light on in terms of that these are complex artists not defined by one way it's a really interesting complicated rich world we're in but I try to listen and be as responsive to the artist as possible you want to identify in this way maybe in another time different way but it also can be quite complicated for the presenter because we just want the best mediation possible for that encounter with audience and artists but how do you also keep the integrity of how the artist wants to be presented but it offers a really interesting conversation that the public might never know about but it's back and forth that are also really significant in terms of these conversations that happen under the radar I was reading I don't know if you guys saw the New York Times there was a survey about art museums and who's attending and the increase or decrease and there was a decrease in people going to see plays which I thought was interesting and I wondered if you could address if you could address the aesthetic and the audiences who do you feel like your audience is and I'm actually asking you to do this as well and more art do you feel like there's multitude of artists but an audience is really swelling to see this kind of work that is no longer just text based do you know of art is a generational difference is it not, does that matter who are these people that are coming to see this work that reminds me that Elizabeth LeCompt the artistic director of the Wooster Group with a theater company with a performance on some organ who ran the multi-year relationship and she loves performing in Los Angeles if the audiences don't know how to watch theater she was joking but she had just done a run-up there at Hamlet at the public theater and that public theater audience really wanted their Shakespeare whereas in LA the audience may be coming from the school arts background the cinematic background and in fact it's not just much of a theatrical tradition per se in the way that New York theater well that's actually you know the school New York theater as a form and I do find in LA and for that matter the West Coast in general in some ways that the new frontier is a bit more than to altering structures and forms I hope so anyway I mean I think I mean I've been to New York's portal for like two years so I'm still getting to know that context and the local context is really significant and I'm enjoying actually a sense of curiosity and openness around the kind of work we do for our organization 18 years old and 18 years of presenting history of exposing audiences to this particular notion that you're going to walk into the unexpected so we talk about that a lot this notion of you're not going to know this, you're not stupid my colleagues don't know how this works these are new experiences and how you embrace the unfamiliar how you embrace the awkward how you embrace that as an audience member and how you are going to be subverting and shifting and experience and they, my audience has actually in some ways been a little disappointed I think if it's too formal of a relationship and in fact this year I was a little bit I was a little concerned but I actually did a return to the theater in the CDA almost everything happened inside of small theaters whereas at the festival and in some of the past we have done things more site-specific and happening all over people who love to engage in work in unconventional places in sight there's a real, I think, curiosity in the genre for that kind of work changing the situation audiences tell the wrong things that they haven't experienced at the same time in terms of theater I think our audience in Portland and I think this is true in a lot of places still really gravitate towards the word and gravitate towards story as an anchor point and that is a much easier access entry point across the board so as somebody is going through like okay what are you presenting this year the fear comes across their face this edition has to be a lot of body because a lot of people provide wouldn't call it hands at all but they're like where's the story and so there's still I still definitely feel like they want to have a subverted context in a new way of engaging so the whole access point of the story is still one that can find it but I agree the West Coast is a great place to what we don't have is in certain histories, in Portland or Arno there are very few theater companies in the Bay Area there's a lot of theater companies that are completely disconnected from the downtime we've been seeing I find that very freeing there's exposure to do and education around what's going on nationally and globally and our artists when they come there often talk about that my work was never interpreted in that way before by having a visual art audience engage in seeing theater and dance works how else can if it sparks a different dialogue and I think artists have been, I think artists are hungry to have a different conversation not the same conversation after every piece I would agree with that and I did see that it was a little disconcerting but you know I thought well these are the facts but I think that's a really important question and I'd just say I love thinking about that because I just confronted it from the beginning in a personal way through culture and race and my family would come up from Texas and I was in the East Village in New York doing really out there work and ironically the work was so grounded in African-American art and history so that's what the work was made for but no one could read it so I was like my own family was like what? I don't need it and the bell went off from the beginning making work that can't be read but the community said it's about that's a challenge and I knew I wasn't going to change the work so I felt like just the same way that I would say what did you guys see in the work it was super smart but just never seen dance in a life I thought to give them context I had to hear from them and tell them every artist makes their own choice about how much context they want to give how much conversation they want to give but I became very big again on micro level but on macro level anytime, anyplace I'm willing to give you as much context or talk about the work and because I'm speaking in such an avant-garde framework especially specific things and for communities that are used to seeing this work and for communities that are used to seeing this work we don't have an access to when a lot of hip hop music comes on so for me it all became about trying to give context and if I can use an example with Stardust I am so appreciated you saying that the spiritual things would bend into next piece because at the core everybody can finally go on in Stardust and at the core of it there's a very hard core issue about the nature of God for me and in particular in the African-American community my spiritual community and if a child is looking for his connection with another human being which is what I'm calling a spiritual dialogue but even bigger what's my relationship with the universe as a whole and he's ostracized from this religious community because he's queer and that's what's at the core of the piece is this little boy going what's left if God isn't even there for me and that's a very traditional dialogue told for me but that is not actually contained in postmodern theater or dance work so that's pushing boundaries and this really I have this total fall away about people thinking I'm going to affect my Catholic roots so it's pretty hard but for example going to the universe of Maryland the country of smiths is what we're going to have over here it's a little bit like okay you say you want to have these dialogues and they asked me what's the core of the work and I said well it's trying to challenge while creating a dialogue with the African-American spiritual community and they said great we'll get together some spiritual leaders from our community I said I said you won't come in or leave in November and we'll set up some residents it's not the right time because now that gay marriage is legal this woman wasn't in Maryland and I think it was kind of a fact that it was resistance from the spiritual community, the African-American community that was not only but in part there was a lack of dialogue between gay community and African-American so I thought yeah I think you know what I'm going to say or do but yeah I have to practice what I preach if you're saying you want this work to get out there and to be available, maybe accessible but available then I think you're using getting there with some black priests and talking about it in this video and the through light here I think that's what it's about I guess what I'm going to say I want it to be available to communities and I'll figure out how to connect them to that part so I'm very excited but it's as long as presenters and artists and know that it could be a huge this is a huge risk and if you go out or connect them it's about if we want to have people show up I have to be able to explain to them why this is in my opinion a loving conversation about the white inner part notion of spirituality and not afraid to you as we quote the attitudes of the white people it's very complicated but I think it's about finding those ways to give contact and create conversation Oleg I wanted to see it's a very interesting topic of interdisciplinarity I encountered another concept in England called Total Theatre and I think it's a really good concept because it actually goes to the roots of theatre which I believe is interdisciplinary already so we don't have to reinvent the wheel the kind of work that I would like to see more in our festivals also that we need to have elements of the roots of theatre which are actually in the Cornetta Lesk in old fairgrounds in Commedia dell'Arte in physical theatre in not only word there was a lot of time when word wasn't even present so like clowning elements of physical comedy that even the training looks like in institutions of conservatories those kind of subjects go by really fast and then we have very naturalistic acts and actors that show up in LA and then they do very naturalistic realistic plays on stage and it's all about word and it's not that exciting because we're actually missing what's most fundamental to theatre but in space expressivity and above all a celebration I think theatre is about community and it's about celebration and I think if you can bring that into this concept of what interdisciplinarity is how do we actually have fun and joy and do some really crazy risky things but they're fun for everybody that I think could be phenomenal Thank you Yes I'm really into questions about the risk thinking and also these questions in terms of how we're labeling our so called interdisciplinarity work these are terms we've heard over and over and it seems to me that in terms of venues like this we often end up talking about what it means for the audience to be taking a risk or working with the specularity I'm really interested if you guys have any further insights as to how that impacts and what that means for the audiences we're taking a risk in studio what does that mean for the audience if it's useful or if it's not That brings up the notion of the role of the audience in general are they consumers you know they're $20 or $50 or are they participants in the journey in exploration That is part of our personality we're not sure about the risk nobody is telling you that you have to go to a risk also you as an example it's part of your personality because maybe in my case I feel very involved in something also the findings of many of these great or famous artists are this kind of party that likes to be recognized by their sign signal so you would see a show I don't know how to say names you would say oh he's he's sitting actually quite critical but there's other kind of personalities that are searching always for his risk in terms of the audience is a way of seduction you have to seduce the other to be heard so this risk many will have something that would be interesting for the other for the other to see because there's so much things to see the options are so the risk could make a kind of language kind of interest for the other because you have to seduce first your audience and then if they are seduced you could say something but the first step is to make them come to the theater so the risk is still something interesting for the other in all things it could be in sports or whatever it's part of the the things that make attraction to the other great we need one more question to come at the end what is the effect of all audience members because this part of the audience 50 to 60 performances so far this year and four of radar so far and I too am looking for a spiritually screening and I think it happens when people have a really high level of artistic ability which takes tremendous amount of screening and expertise that is a very, very complicated process I just I think risk taking is very important that I think even more important is carrying about a level of artistic presentation thank you thank you everybody for being part of this presentation and the end which is about one hour at the end please just to make sure a million dollars