 and welcome to Hawaii Food and Farmers series. Thank you Think Tech for Hawaii for giving us this time every Thursday, sometimes every other Thursday. I'm your co-host, Justine Espiritu. This is my co-host, Matthew Johnson. Every week we bring on farmers and local food advocates that are supporting our food system. That includes government agencies, non-profits, chefs, restaurants, other individuals. We bring them on and get their backstory and hear how they're contributing and what kind of support they're giving our local farms. So who are our guests today, Matt? Oh, that I'm really happy you asked. Thanks, Justine. So today's show, as always, is fantastic. And we're talking about two of my favorite topics, conservation and agriculture. So to help us with the conversation today, we have Michelle Gorham from the West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District. Thanks for having me. And then we also have Stephanie Mark from Oahu Resource Conservation and Development Council nailed it. All right. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having us. Yeah. So let's just get right into it. Michelle, if you can just kind of introduce yourself a little bit and talk about what is the Soil and Water Conservation Districts? Soil and Water Conservation Districts are a kind of quasi-government group with a really, really long name, as you now know. Wow. And what we work to do and what we've worked to do since the late 40s is support farmers through a community means of supporting Soil and Water Conservation practices. So our board of directors is five directors. We have 16 Soil and Water Conservation Districts across the state of Hawaii. And these directors are elected and appointed. And one thing that I think is really, really great is that our volunteer directors for West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District, they have over 200 years of experience farming. Oh, wow. And one of the great things that they do is they provide excellent facts and experience in how to improve farming practices and support healthy soil and healthy water, which supports healthy farms over time. Oh, interesting. So in the Soil and Water Conservation Districts, it's a nationwide program that you said started in the 40s. Yeah, because of the dust bowl. So we lost a lot of high quality and valuable soils. Soil is the foundation of quality agriculture. So when that soil was lost in the dust bowl, the government decided there's something that we need to do here, but there is a distrust in government. And I think we all know that. So how can we build systems of support for farmers that are trusted? Well, you give them the opportunity to have people they trust to provide that support for them. So that's why our directors are elected and appointed. But one of the qualifiers is that they have experience. And so I'm really proud to work for an organization that volunteers their time and supports farmers, especially because I come from a farm myself. I'm a farm kid, seventh generation family farm. So my parents are watching. Hi, mom and dad. Yeah. So that's interesting. So the organization said it's quasi-state, but the volunteer elected directors, they're all pretty much farming or landowners or actually involved with farming themselves. Yes, exactly. Fantastic. So we definitely come back and ask a lot more questions about that. Stephanie, can you introduce yourself a little bit and tell us what is Oahu Resource Conservation and Development Council? Absolutely. So I am a conservation specialist with Oahu Resource Conservation and Development Council. It's a really long name. I know this. So we go by Oahu RCD or O-R-C-D. So what we do, we work with farmers and landowners to develop conservation plans. So conservation plans help to address natural resource concerns that farmers experience on their land and land managers have to deal with every single day when managing a farm. So we work with farmers to develop these conservation plans that help them with farm profitability, with natural resource stewardship. And we just work island-wide and statewide to promote the wide stewardship of our island resources. OK. So Stephanie, so O-R-C-D is a nonprofit. Yes. And then the West Oahu Solar Conservation District is a quasi-state organization. But you guys are working together. Always. Yeah. So tell us, I guess, talk a little bit more about a conservation plan. So that seems like a big part of how you guys are working with your local farmers. Yeah. So the farmers will come to West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District to become what's called a cooperator. A cooperator is a landowner or a land manager who wants to grade, grab, or stockpile soil. And now we're getting into the legal parts of it. Oh, yeah. And that's a county law. So we're quasi-government. But we provide an alternative to the grading, grabbing, and stockpiling process through what's called an exclusion to permitting by people implementing, developing a conservation plan with O-R-C-D or another key partner. And then what they can do after they develop that plan is implement that plan. And that's implementation phase that's so critical. That's actually required for the exclusion. And one of the things that I think is so valuable is through these best management practices, things like grassed waterways rather than having bare soil on waterways or having things like cover crops rather than soils exposed to the elements and losing that critical topsoil and having it go into our reefs since some other are reefs, they can implement these best management practices, which then have a positive impact on the entire community through healthy waters and healthy soils. So the processes become a cooperator, work with the group that can help you develop a conservation plan. There's a number of them on Island. Stephanie and her team are really excellent at O-R-C-D. And they bring in translators to support our farmers, which is so important right now. And then come back. These are language translators. So somebody in English isn't their first language you will work with organizations to help and translate the programs for them. Wow, awesome. So and just to clarify for a second, this isn't something that every farmer necessarily needs to go through. But it's when you talk about the grading, there's kind of like specific activities that if you're going to be doing this, that's when they have to go to you. And if you can kind of get more specific of what that is. Oh, sure. So the city and county, you should bring them on your show too. And they can talk about this a little bit more in depth. They're on our list. They are. Awesome. Yeah. There is a dedicated team with the Department of Planning and Permitting. So they would be great folks to have on. But grading, grubbing, and stockpiling laws are through every county. And basically, at most farming activities, you're going to be engaging in these types of activities. This is kind of like the grading and grubbing that you were talking about. Yeah, stockpiling. If you're going to have compost, is it going to be in a big pile? There you go. That's stockpiling. Are you going to grade? Are you going to create a farm road so your farm vehicle or your equipment can traverse the road? Well, that's grading. Are you grubbing? So are you going to dig down into the soil? Well, if you're going to be doing that activity, that's grubbing. So these are very, very commonplace practices that take place on farmlands that, if not managed correctly, can have a negative impact. And you want to talk a little bit about some of the practices people can do? Sure. So with a conservation plan, like she's saying, it's a flexible working blueprint for farmers to delineate their conservation practices that they aim to implement with their farming operations. So by showing access roads, by including buffer strips, vegetative barriers that trap sediment before it goes on to a neighboring property, things like windbreaks, grassed waterways, the list goes on and on and on. I could talk forever about conservation practices. So conservation practices. 25 more minutes. Oh, I don't know. Not enough time. Man, I just need my own show. It's about conservation practices. And we can make that happen. The Natural Resources Conservation Service is a federal entity that has all of these conservation practices listed out. It's lots of paperwork, lots of standards and specs. So while who are CND and myself included in that, help farmers translate and understand these standards of why they need a filter strip or why they need to show where an access road may go, how does that limit soil erosion or water runoff on their property. So what it sounded like is you guys are bringing all these different acronyms together and helping a farm navigate their way through a lot of different government regulations so that they can actually do what they need to do to farm. Yeah, helping farmers farm since 1950. That's West O'odham so I like that. I like that. That's good. So because there's county permits that are needed. And then now you've also mentioned USDA as well, the Natural Resources Conservation Services. So they're kind of like the organization that's listing out some of these best management practices. And then I guess they also have, because you're talking before about implementation, because that's probably where a lot of times farms will say, okay, I got a great plan, but some of these practices, you said like grass waterways or windbreaks, probably costs a good amount of money. Yes, absolutely and that's financial resources that not necessarily all farmers have to implement these practices, especially when they're trying to make their farm profitable in the end. Farming is a business and we wanna make sure that farms succeed because in the end we all succeed from that. So with conservation practices implementation, there's many different avenues to get funding. There's so many different funding opportunities for farms. So I'll allow Michelle to talk about EQUIP and NRCS federal funding and then I can talk a little bit more about other avenues to get funding for these practices as well. Yeah. So our district conservationists, there's a bunch of different people at Natural Resources Conservation Service who can provide support. There are conservation planners, there's a district conservation. This is at USDA. USDA, yeah. And that's one of the acronyms that we help bring together. So there's Farm Service Agency, there's the Natural Resource Conservation Service. Those two groups work in concert to do things like mapping. Because again, mapping is a skill that may take funding or may take resources that your farmer, especially the small farmers don't have ready access to. So they can provide that support for mapping out the farm, which is a critical part of implementing a conservation plan or actually developing that conservation plan. And then what they can do is provide supports for actual implementation. So two things that they really wanted me to share today were high tunnels and the transition to organic plan. Yeah. And so a lot of folks are moving to organic practices, but it's not just a simple thing to do. There are still a number of quality controls that you need to ensure that you have in place in order to have the best impacts possible or the most positive impacts possible on your land, your neighbor's land and the island that supports all of us. So one of the things they have is funding to support transition to organic. And then the high tunnel is a way to kind of get a head start on growing some of your crops by having a more controlled environment. So that process, if you wanna learn more, just shoot me an email and I'll send you some info. Oh, awesome. Yeah. Great. Well, we are gonna take a quick 60 second break and then get right back into it. Thanks. Thank you. Hi, I'm Chris Letham with Think Tech Kauai and I'd like to ask you to come watch my show, The Economy and You, each Wednesday at 3 p.m. Howie Lucas, host of Hawaii is my mainland here on Think Tech Kauai every Friday at 3 p.m. We address issues and importance for those of us who live here on the most isolated land mass on the planet. Please come join me Fridays at 3 p.m. Mahalo. Hi, I'm Tim Appichella. I'm the host for Moving Hawaii Forward. And the show is dedicated to transportation and traffic issues in Oahu. We are all frustrated by sitting in our cars in bumper-to-bumper traffic. And this show is dedicated to talking with folks that not only we can define the problem, but we hopefully can come to the table with some solutions. So I invite you to join me every Tuesday at 12 noon and let's move Hawaii forward. And we're back to Hawaii Food and Farmer Series. I'm your co-host Matt Johnson. As always, well, pretty much always with Justina Spear too. And today our guest is Michelle Gorham with the West Oahu So-and-Water Conservation District and Stephanie Mark with Oahu Resource Conservation and Development Council. Got him, okay. So we're talking about basically helping farms implement conservation practices on the farm. What was the tagline you said for the SWCD? It was really good. The Hawaii Farmers Farm? Yeah, since 1950. It just made that up on the fly. I'll let you like, how could you forget that already Matt? I'm just trying so hard to remember the name of your organization. So, but yeah, one of the things we were talking about funding and I guess maybe we'll kind of take a step back and I want to talk a little bit more about, so let's say Justine is farming and what does that process look like for her to be able to kind of take advantage of the programs that you guys work with? So I would say the first step is developing a conservation plan with your local Soil and Water Conservation District. That really sets the blueprint for what you aim to do with your farm and your natural resources and how you aim to manage them quote unquote sustainably for not only your farming venture, but also for your neighbor's sake as well. So I would say the first most important step is getting a conservation plan approved by your local Soil and Water Conservation District. That document you can then share with NRCS, the federal, you can share it with the farm service agency. You can share it with the well who are CND and that really shows other entities and other agencies what you aim to do and how we can then fund the practices that you as a farmer intend to implement. So instead of just saying I wanna win break, you actually show me how many linear feet do you want? What kind of tree do you want? Where do you intend to get it? How much is it gonna cost? And we'll say, oh, well we have some funding. I think we can cover 50% of that and help you out and get this process started. So did I just make that more confusing? No, no, it's really good. The one question I have is, so what is a win break? I mean, I can kind of figure out what it is, but like what, so if I'm a farmer, I'm installing a win break, what does that mean? So win break, I'm gonna go back to those NRCS standards that I love so much. Basically win breaks are linear rows of trees that you can use on your farm to slow wind on your property. So that helps with crop protection, but it also allows a privacy screen in case you may have neighbors, you may not get a lot of neighbors, right? So not only, and it also helps with ag theft as well. If you have a dense enough win break or if you have bamboo surrounding your entire property, it can kind of lessen any potential ag theft as well. So with a win break, you have multiple different goals that you can accomplish. A lot of the practices that Stephanie works to with farmers to share and put in their conservation plan have financial benefits as well as environmental benefits. And ideally what the farmer's benefit is either higher yields, which can bring higher returns or lower pests and lower threats. So farm theft, although it's not talked about a lot, it happens all the time. Every single day, three weeks ago, the nicest truck on one of the biggest farms in Oahu was stolen, they can't recover it, I know. And then we were just talking with some farmers that Stephanie is working with on Tuesday. We have our meetings monthly on Tuesdays at 12.30 and her farmers are, this was a Thai farmer and he has a huge problem with people stealing his cucumbers and daikon. They'll walk in with the wheelbarrow and literally steal the vegetables. So we encourage the community to support farmers in farming. We're all talking about how can we be sustainable. Well, one of the most sustainable things we can do is provide systems of support for each other and help each other out. So if you think you see something, then please communicate that. What do they say? See something, say something? Oh, you've got all the taglines on. Thanks, man. So I have a question for you. So in terms of your role and your relationship with the farmers, are these issues and kind of systems and ideas, things that they already have in mind and maybe thinking about it or doing, but they haven't articulated it in a plan that can be kind of presented and funded? Or do you find yourself the resource that is providing these ideas? So a little bit of both, most farmers, actually every single farmer I've worked with has all these great ideas for their farm and obviously they want to protect their soil. That's where they get their farming, their money from. So they already have these ideas of oh, I want to do a windbreak and what if I did rows of trees around the property or what if I did a sediment basin? And I kind of have to bring that optimism down to a realistic level and say, okay, well, do you have the funding? Where do you want to do it? Oh, I don't know. Okay, well, let's figure out a schedule that works for you so that we can make this a reality instead of just these big ideas. Let's put them on paper, make a schedule and then allow you to seek funding because now you have this record of what you aim to do. You have your goal on paper and it makes it more official and allows other people to see the plan that you intend for your farm. So basically with that conservation plan, it just makes it official of all the conservation practices you aim to do. So it's just like a great way to manage your own farm and resources. I think Stephanie really likes her job. I do, I love working with farmers. Yes, we love working with farmers. And so we've talked a little bit about the federal funding provided by NRCS and EQUIP. I know it's alphabet soup. So we are always available by email, just for farmers trying to understand all these acronyms that we're throwing out here today. But with my organization as well as a nonprofit, we offer cost share assistance to farmers and landowners in three specific watersheds currently in Ma'ili-Ili on the west side. We have Wailhole and Ka'alaya on the windward side. So farmers and landowners who are working in these watersheds can apply for cost share assistance and BMP funding with my organization. And so we help them develop that conservation plan and kind of guide them through that whole process. And because we're a nonprofit, we don't have as strict or as many regulations as a federal grant might provide. So it's really a great opportunity. We're looking for farmers who are interested in these kinds of projects or interested in seeking cost share in these specific watersheds. And that's Ma'ili-Ili, Wailhole, and Ka'alaya. Well, so those projects, so instead of just working on like a one-on-one basis with a cooperator or a farmer, landowner, you're actually taking an entire, I guess, watershed approach. And working specifically, because farmers manage larger tracts of land and individuals or small homeowners, we think that by championing the farmers and the large landowners that they can have a greater effect on the watershed. Obviously farming can be intense, but there's also so many practices that we've mentioned today that can mitigate any soil erosion or water runoff. So we work with those farmers knowing that they manage larger tracts of land and can have a bigger impact and be the champions of the watershed restoration efforts. And so a large, I guess a goal of that. So the funding from that is coming from Department of Health? Yeah, so it's a grant originally through the EPA that was then granted to the, excuse me, the Department of Health Clean Water Branch here in Hawaii, which we then sought funding for and were awarded. And now we're passing on that money to the farmers. So you get all your acronyms in one go. You have EPA, to DOH, CWB, to Oahu, R-C-N-D, to the farmers. So we're really, we've offered in this past year, $70,000 in cost share assistance in the Waiohole and Kaalaya watersheds. And now we're beginning phase two and we're looking for more support and more farmers in those watersheds and landowners as well. So why, what is Department of Health? So Department of Health is interested with funding and with the EPA, because they wanna get, you said best management practices on the farms for the purpose of what though, to reduce soil erosion or what's the Department of Health wanna get out of it? So to reduce sedimentation in our water bodies, right? So a little bit what Michelle was talking about earlier, not only to protect our fresh water resources, but our marine resources as well. Conservation practices are not limited to farmers. Anyone can do this on any land. It's simply just purposefully placing plants or using engineering practices that allow less soil to go into our fresh water and ultimately ocean. Which is definitely a huge issue, especially on the windward side, anytime after a big rain. Do you have any success stories or anything where, I mean, I know it's all. Really accomplished. Yeah, oh my goodness. I know it's all success stories, but anything that was, I mean, did you work with any cooperators that weren't really into it, but then after they went through and they were really excited about it. So our phase one, which was then this past year, we've worked with six farmers to develop conservation plans, which were then ultimately approved by the windward O'ahu soil water conservation district. So the opposite to what Michelle is a part of today. Basically, with that, it then delineated which practices they would like to do. So probably a success story that you're looking for is we had one large landowner who had about 15 acres and he wanted to start COA for future timber harvest. So working with Hark and the Manawali station, they were able to install three acres of COA on a huge slope. So they had this tree and shrub establishment that allows for the roots to hold onto the soil. So they had about 30 tons of soil per year being eroded from this slope. That was running into the streams. It was running into the streams. And it's not anything the landowner was doing. This is just because of invasive. It's kind of natural. It's a natural process. And we are trying to work within that natural process to slow it down and halt it as much as we possibly can. Just for our own environmental but economic reasons as well. So with this COA and installing cover crop and using jute matting and erosion sites and all these different practices, we were able to bring that down to just two tons of soil. So you have a 28 ton reduction in just three acres. Wow. See, that's a success story. That's a success story, yeah. So you were mentioning some numbers to me before. How many farms have you guys worked with to make these kind of conservation plans to get these kind of success stories? So I'll speak about a lot who are SD and then ETAG on. So in 2016, we've developed 36 conservation plans. And to give you an idea, usually we've been working really hard and going out there working with farmers. Usually about 10 to 15 are developed per year. So we've been doing as much as possible, hitting the field and being with our farmers. Like I mentioned with that while whole day phase one, we've provided $70,000 in cost share assistance. If you spread that over six farmers, that's a lot of money per farmer. So we're looking for, we have increased funding and we're just looking for the farmers. We want them to apply so we can hand out the money. It's there, just come out and take it for these conservation practices. So while who are SD has been working really hard this year and we hope to continue that momentum and we're always open to talking to farmers. Yeah, and West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District, it's actually a huge district that expands from like Pearl Harbor area, all the way around through the point of Whitenine on a Cooley over to about Turtle Bay. So if you look at that expansive land, that's kind of a walk, it's right back. Yeah, yeah, it's over 9,000 acres of agland just in West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District alone. And so we have like, I think it's like 990 farmers or something on the island of Oahu. And a ton of them are in West Oahu. So Stephanie and her team at ORCD has been working across the state and of those farmers she's been working with, we have a couple other people who develop plants too. We have a conservation specialist, Poo O'Nana Stippard and she's available to provide services for farmers. She's actually at no cost, she provides statewide support too. But we do have limited capacity and we've had 35 farms come in with over 8,000 acres supporting soil and water conservation practices in our district alone this year, or 2016. Wow, so many success stories, that's awesome. Yeah, we like it. Right on. So that wraps up our time. It's great to hear about these kinds of plans that can support farmers better for the environment, help with their yield. It's great to hear about these resources.