 What's up everybody happy February that means we have a new promotion going on but before I get into the promotion the programs that are on sale I'm going to give away to one of you lucky people for free so the two programs on sale are maps performance and maps aesthetic so one is for training like an athlete so you can move like an athlete the other one is training like a bodybuilder so you can look like a bodybuilder I'm going to give one of you both for free you just got to do the following leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode click on subscribe and click on notifications do all those things and then if we notify you if we see your comment we like it we notify you you'll get both programs for free now everybody else if you want to sign up in the month of February for either maps performance maps aesthetic or both you can get 50% off so here's how you do it head over to mapsfitnessproducts.com click on one of those programs and then use the code FEB50 for the 50% off discount by the way that code works for both so you can get both for 50% off one more time it's FEB50 no space for that discount all right here comes a show counting your calories tracking your macros is a terrible long-term weight loss and fat loss approach whoa I know people get really upset I feel like you're personally attacking me no okay so so my six pack bags today no here's the deal throw it away no here's the deal look understanding calories and food and proteins fats and carbohydrates is an important piece of the learning process but as a long-term approach it's terrible because what you don't want to do in this I've seen this countless times is nobody wants to live unless you're fanatic right nobody wants to live a life where they're constantly counting calories constantly tracking macros weighing measuring food it's it's it's neurotic and it's actually a pretty short good shortcut towards dysfunctional eating habits the long-term approach always it's always good to you want to know stuff you want to be educated on on food but you have to work on your behaviors because you want your eating habits to feel natural and comfortable not stressful and tracking and counting because stressful eating leads to dysfunction so now that being said there's a there's a huge importance around the education piece of learning like so I mean how many times you guys got a client who doesn't even know what a carb or a protein or a fat really is and then is completely off when you ask them how many calories they're eating and then they actually do track it and you realize it was they were totally underestimating what they were eating so since we know that right we've experienced that and the only way for them to figure that out is to track so what does that process look like so is it okay we're going to track even though I believe this is a bad idea long term for your weight loss but I also recognize that we've got to have an idea of what you're consuming on a regular basis it's a foundational piece to build off of that right like you need the education and the know-how of what you're putting in your body is going to affect you and so to be able to track is crucial in the beginning in terms of just having the awareness of like for some of my clients just having snacks and nuts for example like that being more calories than they even anticipated you know really played a major factor in them trying to lose weight so you know it just it's just more eye-opening to go through the process and then eventually you understand yourself and your patterns more effectively because I feel like common practice in our space is when you're on and you're training you're in dieting you're tracking when you're off you're off right and that and that's just this and the office is right off is no tracking eating eating like an asshole you know putting on the weight not exercising all the stuff right and then okay I'm getting started again call up my trainer Adam hey what's up dude I want to get back in it I fell you know I fell off over the holidays let's get going again and then okay we're back to tracking and then we do that for six months getting some good shape and then the cycle starts over again so when you guys are starting with a client and you understand the value of tracking for educational purposes but you know the long-term goal is to get them to not track again what does that conversation look like when you when you when you first start with them well it starts in the beginning so first off let's back up for a second is the obesity epidemic so and we have to separate getting shredded and just general health right because if you want to get shredded you're probably going to have to track things need to be much more specific I'm glad you said that we're taking we're not talking to competitive people no no if you're if you're a man and you have good eating behaviors good relationship to food and exercise you're going to sit around 12 to 16% body fat right this is kind of a healthy body fat range you're relatively lean you're not going to be unless you're genetically gifted or you exercise that you're not going to be 7% 6% body fat just from kind of you know living your life and eating you know relatively healthy that comes from really being specific really tracking so those are two separate things but the obesity epidemic is not the result of lack of information and lack of understanding of calories and you know what makes this overweight or overeating I think it's pretty well established we know you know what caused that overweight people tend to know what caused that and yet they're still 70 80 100 pounds overweight at times so the real issue is are the behaviors is is the dysfunctional relationship that we have with food where it becomes a drug we self-medicate with it we have a bad relationship with it we eat past the point of satiety we don't identify bad behaviors that we have with nutrition we hate our bodies like all these different things so I think it has to start in the beginning along with tracking because the tracking gives you the information like you need to know what is serving of chicken and rice or whatever looks like for your body type but beyond that if you don't identify the real behaviors here's what will happen you'll have these you'll still have these dysfunctions but now you're fit you fit the dysfunctions when the within this you know rigid box of tracking and then eventually that you break out of that box and that's where you get the binge and you get the off the wagon and you get the weight loss and the weight gain type of deal that we see in everybody right so this is why you know the vast majority of diets fail it's not the lack of information it's the lack of focusing on the root cause of the problem and so that's why we need to we need to talk about this because I've seen look I'll tell you what I've seen more than my share of people in our space the fitness fanatics who have such a dysfunctional relationship to eating through tracking no it's got to fit in my macros it's very neurotic and that's and I think that as coaches we've learned too that if we simplify the process and really just present a more effective strategy so these there's strategies that will move the needle but won't be quite as invasive in terms of them having to have this extensive education of you know how how many pounds or ounces or whatever are in in their meat and you know like like calculating out all their grams and macronutrients and calories like if we can kind of you know establish some understanding there but really it's like what are a better strategy it's it's you know moving more towards whole foods and eliminating you know some of these behaviors yeah behaviors yeah no you know when they do come when they show studies will show that a therapist will get somebody long-term success more often and better than somebody that follows a tracking type diet now in the short term a tracking diet is very effective because you just follow the rules and you know calories in versus calories out you lose weight long term it's it obviously fails why is it therapist works so well because in therapy they kind of focus on the root and then the side effect of which is you treat yourself a little bit better right because what you don't here's a good example okay a terrible approach to getting better posture is to constantly have to think about your posture like oh just think about your posture all day long think about how good it needs to be like what a stressful kind of way to live right you you want good posture naturally so you can live your life having a long-term healthy approach with nutrition is the same it needs to feel more relaxed needs to feel less stress stress is a strong trigger towards bad relationships with food overeating under eating you know restriction and binge that kind of stuff and tracking all the time forever for most people is a stressful endeavor so how would you handle a a client like this i get married in august and i want to get in the best shape of my life between now and then so like that that's my specific goal that i'm asking you and you got me now today you're on a timeline yes so what does the conversation change are you still communicating the same thing but then maybe your approach is different like what are you saying to that person because there are a lot of people because i think what you're saying makes total sense for you know the person who decides i'm going to make a change in my life i've been overweight for a really long time i've got all these health markers that are going off my doctors and i want to be around for my kids whatever the reason is right they're they're motivated to make a change in their life and they want to get professional help from someone like one of you and they and they and they sit at you and so that makes all sense to me this community this conversation the way you're presenting it but then you have the other the other part is our people that come in and say hey i've got this specific goal i've got a wedding in x amount of months i want to be in the best shape i can get in at a time what do you say to that yeah well if it's possible then to maintain integrity i'm always very honest like okay well you want to lose 15 pounds in two and a half months we can definitely do that you're not working out now your nutrition you don't really know you know how to eat in order to get to your particular goals so here's a deal we can do it but it's not a long-term approach it's not the healthiest approach so throughout the process that's how i'm going to educate the person here's what we're going to do we are going to track you we're going to follow those things but here's why it's going to fail if we don't work on these behaviors if we don't look at the root cause and i'll let them know the entire time that this is going to be a failing long-term strategy because look let me ask you guys how often out of a out of a hundred people how many people would succeed long term with that kind of a goal they all fail yeah so that's so you're so i that's what i was looking for from you was something like along those lines because i was hoping you weren't gonna say oh you would not allow them to track because if you if you want uh if you have a time frame right specific that you have to try and and get them tracking is going to get there right i mean tracking is sure you have to be more specific right like if there if there is a time frame that i have to be in this shape or the whether it be the best shape of my life or a certain amount of weight by a certain amount of time right that then for sure i'm going to have you track but what what how i would communicate it is that okay that's fine that's a goal great we're going to do this can i add to that goal what i want to add to that goal is okay after i get you in the best shape of your life for the wedding i assume that you want to be able to maintain that for the rest of your life that allow me to make another goal on top of that is our goal then is to get you away from having to track food and still be able to maintain your weight or your physique the way that you would like or your health whatever however you want to present it but i want to add to that goal it's okay we're going to be super rigid we're going to track we're going to get the most results we can this time but that's not the end of this process i'd like to get to a place where we can not track for a while i'll monitor you i'll see what's going on and stuff like that and be checking in with you every week or two weeks but the the ultimate goal is can i get you in the best shape of your life and then also give you practices that will allow you to maintain and coach you through that process yeah because that's a coaching process right i think the ideal situation is to live a life and again i'm not talking of fitness maniacs and fanatics that's a that's one percent of everybody i'm talking to so for most people i think ideally what you want is you want to kind of live for most of your life in this general range of health right so relatively lean decent mobility you know decent strength and stamina and you feel good for the most part and that's how you live most of your life and then from there that's your base right from there then you oh i want to get shredded okay now i'll track and turn up the intensity and the volume or oh i'm going to compete in a powerlifting competition now we we do all the stuff to take us to the extreme level but it's nice when the base is general health and relative lenis lenis what you don't want is what happens to a lot of people where oh i want to get shredded and then there's no base you know it goes way the hell like you see people post one extreme to the other yeah post bikini show you know these we're talking about tiny girls 110 pound girls getting 30 pounds in 30 days after the competition that's what you don't want to do those those crazy swings and we can get into all kinds of conversations to why that's terrible for your body but what we're looking at is always have that long term how is this going to work for me long term because statistically speaking you know how many i don't know how many times i've said this we don't have a weight loss problem we have a keep weight off problem and the weight loss issue is easily solved okay you're losing weight piece of cake keeping it off that's the thing we got to talk about that's where flexibility that life just presents you with so many different challenges and and you know you need to be able to not have a decision one day that's really going to affect you you know substantially so to be able to pull yourself into that sort of home base where you're relatively healthy you're relatively strong relatively lean you just have a lot more options in terms of which way you can go and navigate through totally so since we're talking about tracking i want to bring up something that andrew brought to my attention yesterday so i was working out yesterday he came over and he was editing some of our clips from you have a good workout it was all right it was a great you respond quick uh yeah because i switch everything all at once you know katrina says the same thing too she goes i hate i frustrates me watching you train because you have a crazy amount of muscle memory let's be honest well that's how i try explain to her i said uh you know i've been doing this for a really long time and i've i know how to tweak everything that's beside the point that you're getting off sorry i just want to say yeah so thank you i just noticed your arms um i didn't train those actually yes so what yeah those haven't been trained in a couple months uh so anyways um andrew comes up and he says uh how come you guys recommended a thousand calorie surplus to the kid on the question the other day he's 150 pounds he said that he's been training for a while and he's been kind of stuck in this plateau and he would consider himself an ectomorph and and we suggested that he goes because i typically hear you guys say somewhere between 250 to 500 and then all of a sudden you say a thousand for that guy so i explained to him uh why you did it i want to hear you explain because i'm assuming that what i said to him was right yeah so when we give advice uh on the podcast with general audience you're gonna get uh general advice when we're talking specifically to someone the context changes and the advice can can change so why did i tell this guy that if he wants to do hit his goal aim for a thousand calories uh over his uh his his maintenance okay so let's talk about the first for a second let's paint the context a little bit right he'd been working out for years already so and his goal was to gain 10 to 15 pounds of lean body mass in a year so very very challenging goal first off gaining 10 to gaining 10 to 15 pounds of lean body mass in your first year of training is a pretty damn naturally is a pretty damn big goal doing it in your sixth year or fifth year i think you had been working out for four or five years wow was that really hard right because at that point your body's pretty resistant you've already you've already gotten those newbie gains very challenging on top of that admittedly he was an ectomorph uh saying or in other words a hard gainer so he said yeah it's really hard for me to put on any weight and there's definitely an individual variance real hard gainers have a very different challenge than the average person when it comes to gaining weight just like somebody who gains body fat very easily versus uh somebody who doesn't gain body fat very easily the set another piece of context is what i said afterwards so i said aim for a thousand calories over maintenance if you start to gain too much body fat here's the part people leave out then cut it back so in other words aim for a thousand and if the body fat starts coming on too much then pull it back now i was aggressive for a couple different reasons uh he had an aggressive goal he'd already been training for five years he said he was a hard gainer um and of course there's that if you gain too much body fat you can pull back and also as a coach or as a trainer i depending on who i'm talking to sometimes i give someone a goal knowing they're not going to hit it but they're going to aim for it so you hit on exactly what i told exactly what i told andrew i said you know i know that sal's experience told him that that type of person who's giving all that information to him he knows that the kid probably misses his calorie intake a lot and if he gives him a thousand calorie goal he's probably factoring in there's going to be a lot of times he only hits 500 or 700 totally now if i gave him 500 he would he would go 200 and then i said then there's another thing that his experience is telling him and he's factoring in also is that as this kid so his goals 10 to 15 pounds well as this kid adds two to three to four to five more pounds of muscle his metabolism is also going to speed up too so this goal of only adding three to 500 calories above his maintenance well as soon as he adds two or three more pounds of muscle two or three hundred calories is no longer above his maintenance and so giving him a lofty goal like a thousand i said is most likely going to be a really good place for that particular person and so i'm glad i mean that's exactly what i was telling andrew was like yeah no i when sal said that i said i'm pretty sure all of us were on the same page like it was that that specific yeah no it's a great topic because if you ever hear any good trainer or if you listen to mind pump and you hear us give advice to a specific person on the show so obviously you know we have episodes where people call in live and we're talking to a specific individual if your scenario is very very similar to the person you're listening to our advice can apply towards you if not just because you have the same goal don't listen to the advice necessarily if we give advice on the show generally now it becomes more here you go this is exactly what i said andrew i said okay uh let's let's take the exact same goal i want to gain 10 to 50 pounds but let's change the person this person's a beginner and he's actually overweight but he's heard us say that you know i should build my metabolism up and increase calories build speed my metabolism i would not say that right and and he says i'm an endomorph i put on size i was a linebacker in high school or something or i was a lineman in high school and so i'm kind of a thicker thicker guy as it is and weight comes on fairly easy for me but i believe that i should bulk because you guys said that would be good for me for my metabolism what does the advice look like i said he would go the other extreme i said salvage it 250 yeah barely over and just you getting into weight training your body's going to respond so think of that exact same goal it could be the same age same goal everything same program he's following but the nutritional advice is going to be different based off of that that speaking personally i as a in my early 20s even before especially before as a teenager but up until my my early to mid 20s my metabolism was so ridiculous that i you know eating a few hundred calories over maintenance did nothing i would have to really eat a lot of food to see anything on the scale move at all now as i get older it started to balance out a little bit more and i was not the average person i mean most of people around me you know if they eat as much as i did they would gain tons of body fat and tons of weight so it really depends on the individual in the context of the question and what we're looking to do but also i did say in there if you start to gain too much body fat right pull back so and i think this highlights the value of a really good trainer or coach because the individual variants a good trainer will always answer a question with it depends and need more information from you because i could give this the same information to somebody with the same goal as someone else may be terrible for them and work for them because the context is completely different and the individual is completely different so this is a very it's a very good conversation it's important for people understand that what's the takeaway listen to your body consider your context and your context changes it's such an important conversation i've actually we've been critiqued before on this so i've actually been in gone back and forth with somebody in dms commenting about you know i you know i'd listened to you guys years ago and i heard you say this and then you you're contradicting yourself and then you say this yeah that's like well that's not fair bro you can't cherry pick something i said four years ago completely never right and we're talking about a specific scenario and then you just because it's related or it sounds similar similar yeah you've got to understand that there's there's such an individual variance with with well this is the problem too with like trying to calculate your maintenance or calculate like these these general formulas that are out there it's a great like base it's a great like starting place you can see change but you know it's it varies so substantially to the individual that it's like if we just put a blanket statement this is always the amount of calories you need to seek you know we'd be doing everybody disservice yeah no 100 so it's a very important conversation i'm glad you brought that i saw the comments too in youtube it's a thousand calories over i would hate so much body fat that's what triggered andrew to ask me he said but i didn't see it he's just like yeah people are coming on that i remember whenever we see those things you know because unfortunately we don't have a chance to look at everything right um when you guys see stuff like that you know i always like to address that because it is it's like it's so yeah how different would your advice be let's say you're talking to the person that's got kind of everything all together they like to have information they follow instructions they're really organized versus the person's like yeah none of that works for me this really stresses me out like you know my nutrition advice to the organized like super on top of a person's are very different yeah then to the other the other person i might say something like we're not doing anything in your diet all i want you to do is add uh you know serving of vegetables to every meal knowing that that'll you know help them eat less and do that kind of and this person over here i'm gonna get much more ninja with that person 100 the generic thing to say you know to cover like all topics or all goals is that we always factor in behavior and if i know more about somebody even it's not it's not just science and math that's a big part of it you know there is science involved there's math involved but then there's also another component you're dealing with a human that's right and and and a good trainer is saying depends and asking enough questions so i can start to piece together like okay i haven't i've seen this before this type of person typically does x y and z so i need to factor that in with my advice who am i talking to yeah yes the math and science says this but now i have this other element tells me they're probably going to be doing this that's right other behaviors yeah you know it reminds me of we had a while ago we had a nfl trainer in here so this person trains professional athletes and he was talking about how terrible some of the pre game diets of some of these athletes are he was saying oh yeah you wouldn't even believe like athletes are the worst well so he would know this is a great conversation i remember he said no i got i got athletes man that right before a game taco bell or so taco bell doesn't change it fried chicken they'll drink a bunch of soda and it's the same garbage food before every game and so then i said wow you know i wonder how much their performance would improve if you could convince them to have something healthy before and the macros are right and he goes and he said to me goes no you're wrong yep he goes these guys are so mentally set on the fact that their taco bell meal that they've had every day before every game since they were in high school is key to their success that if i took that out and replaced it with healthy food it would mess with their mental state it's almost like a superstition right totally and at that point it's because i have my everything it puts them in a mental space that like is is literally something you can count on yes like and so i had the same process like i put my cleats on the same way nobody talked to me if somebody talked to me it would ruin my whole experience and so i would i would come after them after the game i'd say don't ever talk to me again you know as i'm preparing and this is just and he put the eye black on and everything was all like very ritualistic and so i totally get that yeah so it's like if you if you're a another trainer or coach and you see this nfl trainer and you're like what an idiot right and he's give that to athletes he talked about before again yeah sounds absurd but you have no idea right it's such a good point because we know we know what the science and the math says that if we gave him certain foods he would get this a little bit better you know digestion a little bit better maybe energy like but the mental part screwed up but yeah just this just the fact that it could throw him off his mental game and he doesn't like those things and he really enjoys this he's getting ready to go do something that he needs to be performing be great at being flow state it's important to put him yes in that flow state of that mind totally what's the black stuff on the eye black what is that supposed to like it's a reflection of the light take the yeah off of what your sheets i don't understand it i think so no no the no it's it's the so both the sun and lights the way it refracts off of off of your cheekbone makes a difference in the black does it really especially when you're looking up to like grab like if you're playing baseball and you're trying to find that pop fly you know things like that are like you know catch really it makes a difference yeah there's a there's a there's a reason behind doing i figured i mean it's it for me it was really just like war paint yeah well i just i got in the mindset like okay now i'm well let's be honest i that's got to play a role too like i could see i could see like i now i'm ready you know i got my my eye paint on or whatever it's like smelling salts for powerlifting totally i don't know if it really will contribute to like scientifically speaking i think it's there's mixed studies they also slap the hell out of each other yeah to just get into that like did you see the high school basketball one that i just posted no you guys didn't see that i just posted my story yesterday as a high school basketball kid and they all you know when they you know in the basketball they you know all the players that aren't starting lineup and then they call the starting lineup the guy comes through kind of runs through the little thing and they all high five each other never see the kid at the end he's they do their and then the last part of it he fucking slaps him across the face just don't see if he's expecting it oh yeah no you can tell it's part of their ritual you can tell that's their thing they do their thing and then he just freaking slaps him across the face i never see if i do that wow that's hilarious yeah yeah you guys ever play any mental games in yourselves when you're working out to get an extra rep or whatever do you guys ever do that oh i just i get extra angry yeah that's my go to when i was younger i don't do this anymore because i'll hurt myself but i was younger if i was deadlifting and pulling something that was how heavy i pictured that i have i had to lift like something off like someone i loved like it's my dad's pinned under the car and now if i die if it's not for me yes now if i did that now i don't think my body could it could handle it probably hilarious you want to hear something hilarious even even funnier okay so i'm going to read something to you it sounds like a freaking movie i can't even believe this crap actually even happens okay ready for this is the time this i'm going to read the the whole the title of the article okay driver who stopped to help when truck carrying 100 lab monkeys crashed in pennsylvania and put her hand in one of the cages says she now has a cough and pink eye the cdc urges anyone in contact god with the macaques to seek medical attention so let's back up for a second wait a second there's 100 macaques one of them gave the slate pink eye what kind of disease are we gonna come up with this shit up bro lab monkeys what a title that is right there lab monkeys escaped and then she touched one got sick of the cdc's like oh yeah gotta get these never touched macaque not something we do now i read some follow-up articles and they were able to get all the escaped lab monkeys so we're okay so planning the apes isn't going to happen i totally sounds like a movie we are live i you know every day that goes by and we get deeper and deeper to this like and you made that comment the other day about being in the simulation like it's starting doesn't it feel like that there's a kid playing a game right now how much have you guys been have you guys been reading or watching at all about you know elon musk neuro link and what it's going to be capable of and what they're like they know they've already mentioned it like being something they're going to be able to roll out like fairly soon and i'm like i don't know they're already doing trials on on monkeys and pigs and they're putting this and the things that the things that they're going to be supposedly capable of doing like blows my mind like the idea that you're going to be able to drive a car like thinking about going left going right do stuff like that to read your emails you know just by thinking about it you know and be able to do things like that so they'll recall memories like you have to get surgery to get it in yes it's implanted into the brain so is it almost like right like back here right right back here i think is where i've seen that the implant it looks like it's got like this three prong thing and these are the different functions that it's so i just picture you guys seen short circuit right yeah okay so johnny five he just takes a book like an almanac and just like read the whole thing but i mean wouldn't you think that you could at that point if you can recall memories or recall like site of what you you know you went through almost like black mirror you'd be able to retain all of that just by like looking at it looking at it there's a okay there's a very first of all there are strange disorders where people do have memories like that where they don't forget anything and the fuck you talking about you're one of those guys no no no no i don't know like this is a fitness study i've heard this stuff what you talking about you we all read sometimes the exact same study i tell you literally just like fitness studies yeah i don't know how you do it and and then we get on the podcast and you somehow have the ability to regurgitate like the exact verb that's different that's different yeah no what i need to be there are people so there's people that they're they have these strange memories where they could literally tell you every single license plate they've ever seen all right our details of like detail or oh that person over in this corner was wearing a red hat and these sneakers or the way like like sometimes they'll go get hypnotized to be able to then you know kind of walk through that whole experience yeah that's different but i'm talking there's really this i don't know what it's called but there are people who have this strange ability where they could tell you the name of every person they've ever met in their entire life now here's the catch they're typically have some kind of psychological dysfunction they're weird as fuck there's a reason why your brain hit in the head too like some traumatic it's it's it is it is very important that your brain forget stuff so this is an important thing so this is actually one of the things that they're concerned about with this is that we don't know what that could potentially cause exactly we think it's going to be this great right theoretically like wow how cool would that be to be able to recall a memory when you were eight like vividly a few people's heads explode but what we don't know is the unintended consequences right like maybe there was a reason why our brain lets that stuff go and maybe it'd be very traumatic if we can if we can hang on or we have access to all these memories so vividly yes i'll give you another i'll give you an example right challenge and struggle is intricately tied to meaning and purpose in life this is a fact we know this yet we're constantly trying to eliminate all struggle and conflict and challenge in our lives and we're seeing this now with exploding anxiety and depression and i don't even have to argue this we're way better off today than we were you know 500 years ago right why do we keep seeing these explosions why are people seeking out challenges trying to fix things or whatever so we just don't know a lot of stuff and i can't imagine what that might do there's so much of this that's like really just the unknown in terms of like also like eliminating your instinctual behaviors like if you start relying on uh you know some kind of artificial um like computer to analyze everything for you you know it's like almost like you could be independent on yeah so i don't know in case you have you have to like you have the the thinking fast thinking slow part of your brain right that you access so i would think that this would be on the logical side the long process thinking where you would have to stop really think about something go oh where i've read this or i know this let me think about it but you'll still have your animal instinct first brain that will always fire like that will you'll always have your initial your animalistic reaction to things and behaviors i don't think that will hijack that lizard brain i think that when you go to the other part and you go you think logically let me process this now you'll have that's my theory on that's how it'll work so i don't know if it'll eliminate i don't i don't think anybody natural instincts i don't know anybody no i mean we're all speculating right right now i mean how about how about it works amazing and it's perfect but uh you know you get started getting hundreds thousands of people that have these neural links and then the business goes under yeah oh i just always worried about getting hijacked no one's asked that question this is a shitty set right and how Elon Musk dies or Elon Musk says fuck this i'm so tired of all this scrutiny fuck everybody i'm selling the company i'm out we'd rush our child hacks into your brain or how successful our ad's gonna be you know we're like talking over him i want to diet coke so bad right now like that's weird you never drink them i know but i want one so bad who knows and who's signing up for this elective brain surgery that's what i want crazy people that will do well didn't he say that um what were some of the conditions that they think that they're going to be able to eliminate yeah people yeah people that like paralyze yeah issues yes yeah memory stuff like somebody who can't who has dementia or yeah some things like that that he said that he'd be able to eliminate in a few years yeah you know what's funny to me is like the same because elon musk is such a polarizing you know kind of interesting individual right so the same people that are like damn facebook and google is spying on me uh i hate them you know and then elon musk like i'll put a computer trip right in your brain i'll i'll sign up for that wait a minute what's going on do you think so i think they're all the same people i think the people that would be open to that are the same people that don't give a fuck about the facebook i think there's the people that are worried about facebook are worried about all this invasive stuff i think you know what elon has said is he said this is all gonna happen anyway i'm just trying to do it before anybody else because i know i'm not gonna create some weird he's like it's already an appendage of yours anyway your phone yeah you know my that's what got me might as well put it in your brain that's what got me that's a big step i don't know i don't know it is but it isn't like so that when he said that on joe rogan that was kind of like one of those moments for me where i'm like god you're right like how many and let's be honest okay everybody be honest in this room how many think for a moment the the feeling of stress or anxiety when you started to take off from your house and realize you left your phone yeah of course and do you not a hundred percent of time turn the car back around and go get your phone as if you can't go a day without your phone being at home i don't even know my wife's phone number it took me a good hour or so to realize i'm going to be okay like so you're you're lying to yourself if you do not think it's already an appendage yeah that's true it is already become that like and some obviously more dependent than others but so that was kind of the moment for me or i was like well fuck he's kind of right like so all i'm really doing is speeding up the process there's just a lot of weird unknowns like did you know that yes yes i agree i don't know that you but from that from that logic think about that all i'm really saying is that like okay i could implant something that allows to takes out the holding something and actually typing it in to get to the what i want now i just gotta think it i mean is it really if it is safe if there are no unintended consequences that happen which i agree with you that we don't know and also that turn to cyborgs i mean is it really that different from that it's just weird dude there's this uh there was a one uh electronic brain implant that they i did i believe they did experiment with where you could push a button and orgasm like like you know think about it uh antidepressants out the window oh you feel sad hit the button you'll feel happy no matter what so now people are gonna be like at the inner home isolated by themselves they hit the button oh i feel good i mean is that how much different is that from the opioid court crisis that we have right now because theoretically if it directly goes to the brain there's no like drugs have their side effects and they you know you gotta take more i mean who knows right and that's the here's it okay here's a good one a good question are there no unintended consequences okay opiates they have you know we know physical physiological unintended consequence but let's just imagine opiates always made you feel happy when you took a pill and there were none of those does that still mean there are no side effects i don't think so i think easily feeling happy all the time has its own side effects because you don't have all of the processes that are also depending on something else to do it versus that's the only means to get there right you're depending on a some other function versus intrinsically being able to do it which there's obviously tremendous value and you being able to create that for yourself versus oh i depend on this pill or oh i depend on this you know like electronic surge i wonder if there's going to be an explosion in amish people when all this happens you know i mean they're like we were right look at all you weirdos over there we're over here with the horses and buggies all the rest of the cyborg zombies yeah i'll tell you what the if i had neuro link and i could just then plant them and all these like high school kids brains and like just tell them exactly what to do you know just like this would be way easier you'd win every game yeah yeah i think that is huge they'd be jacked like they're doing everything right hook them up to an app like you're playing madden and they're just playing like that oh you go over here make a of all of all the things that you're trying of all the things that you're trying to coach them or train them to do like consistently some of that what do you find is the biggest hurdle or what do you find yourself repeating the most well a lot of it is an intent so um i think uh you know just with younger groups in general it's just about getting through it and it's about performing whatever it's because right now i'm in the thick of the exercise portion of it and then the workouts and then also the nutrition um and i'm actually i guess i actually i scratch that it's probably nutrition is probably the hardest uh just because i think that um you it's just hard to kind of break through if they're not seeking it out you know for me to just like you know inundate them with like good strategies and all these things to do i'm like i don't really know what you guys are doing like until you show me uh and write down like what you're eating what your family prepares you they're just like they're just almost like they're okay it was for dinner and you know they're just mindless about like they're eating you know it's okay so when i was a kid my i was i think i was 15 and my parents went to italy for a full month and within that month uh i stayed at my grandma's house and my grandma old school Sicilian and she's the kind of person where if she she'll say what do you want to eat and if i tell her she'll just make it it'll be anything i can tell her whatever she'll make it and then if i like it she'll make it all time so at 15 i was already lifting weights trying to work out and i'm already taking supplements do a whole thing and i told her i said no not i like steak can you make me steak yep so i had steak breakfast lunch dinner snacks you throw pasta on it in a month grandma gains right dude in a month i gained like eight pounds and i got so strong and i pieced together like i got to eat more meat you know i mean like this is like one of the big you know that didn't that did not come to me till way later i wish i would have pieced that part together like i was just giving advice to someone like that dude my sister actually we're talking about this like who's starting her kind of journey right now i'm like just start with hitting your protein intake you'll see that when i tell you about what you should be eating you'll go oh yeah yeah or people always go like oh yeah i eat a lot of that you know and like yeah well watch when you actually track and pay attention like you'll see that you miss that like i have to when i'm in like competitive mode or change my physique mode i have to actively seek like meat or protein in every single meal it takes a lot of prep too yeah and that's i remember vividly when i was going through it as a high school kid like you know my parents would always be like oh my god you eat so much like you eat so much meat like it was just something i was always asking them if i could get you know and i just like chicken breast i have a chicken breast you know steak as much as i could get it but it was just like oh my god you're racking our bills up you know because it's just it too it's expensive like in terms of like if you're just always seeking out steaks and and you know quality meats uh but uh yeah so that's that was one of the things so i i actually created this um this manual for for the kids which i'm gonna hand them off with like you know options and just things and strategies bro put your box all day long all day long for this i put i put that on there because it was like it's so helpful to to know that you have like a freezer full of meat uh you can prepare that like on a sunday you can cook all these things and then you have that to go to so you're not like at a loss during the day like how am i gonna get uh this protein because because if you're already behind the eight ball though yeah well also here's another advantage typically with these kids it's mom or dad that does the grocery shopping yep if they sign up for butcher box they do it with their mom or dad it's on a schedule once a month there's a box of you know good quality grass-fed meat that comes to the door and they know this is what i'm eating this is how i'm gonna get my grams of protein and then they can go and prepare it and prep it and they're all set you know i when i was a kid before i before i understood that i thought a baloney and cheese sandwich it was yeah protein oh there's baloney and cheese oh i know because you get a little baloney i i remember as a kid so before i was like really into track of food i would count my togo sandwich every day as like a high protein meal yeah because there's meat in there yeah well and i was getting a huge lard my fried chicken strips and and i you know a lot of people have to think the same way too big old meat sandwich and what you don't realize is those things are like four ounces of meat like seriously it's like 20 grams of protein in this massive yeah but you consume 1200 calories of carbohydrates and fats like yeah i was so off on all that stuff i i after i figured that out i began looking at meals like oh my god i need to get this much meat no i now that i think about a butcher box is perfect for these kids because when they get it it's it's weighed so they know this is a one and a half pound tri-tip yep okay johnny this is your tri-tip you cook it or your mom cooks your dad whatever get it ready you know it's a pound and a half this is what you're gonna eat over the next three days so now you've got it all portioned out for you and it's all set it's grass fed so it's you know better fatty acid profile are you guys paying attention if any of our brand of our partners like this are they being affected by inflation right because almost everybody is raising prices no you know this is a great so that's great yeah especially yes because we work with a few subscription companies like public goods right so for people to know public goods they have like home goods cleaning supplies dog food canned foods toothpaste that kind of stuff stuff you would use in your house and their big claim to fame is you know no harsh chemicals and it's very earth friendly so the packaging is good they don't you know create a lot of waste they have a very small if any carbon footprint i believe they're carbon neutral if i'm not they have that reusable model where you buy your first thing with that and you just get the refills and everything but here's what i think the brilliance is in subscription models period including butcher box and companies like public goods is that because they don't have as many middlemen inflation when you have inflation happen it affects the the first the source then the then the then the person affects everybody and if you have six steps in between you and the customer everybody putting in half a percent more on their step adds up yes because the middleman makes money this person makes money and this is how it works when you have a subscription service you are taking out a lot of that so although inflation probably affects everything you're less likely to have an issue and when subscription services raise their price they really have to consider the consequences because it's a subscription it's not like a one-time purchase they know we're raising these persons this person's box by right 20 bucks or whatever let's really figure out how to do this so i think subscription services in this inflationary market i think they're like an incredible hedge against direct to consumer yes when it's direct to consumer yes yes i see that too i think that makes you know one of the biggest differences all right i got some cool studies to share with you guys here real quick all right number one alcohol any amount of alcohol increases your risk of cancer so i know that there's a myth out there that and we'll cover this right about jen i've heard like so many people try to say like a shot of jen uh extends their life yeah this is like a whole thing okay so so can alcohol or other substances similar to alcohol increase your longevity yes but not because it's good for your physical or physiological body if it's bonding with other person there's oh there's those benefits as well so let's cut those out for a second let's just talk about purely about the physical and physiological effects no uh in that context alcohol always increases your risk of dying early there is no even all the stuff that's around wine and antioxidants that's so bullshit i know it is i know i know if you're really chasing antioxidants go have a fucking handful of berries and you'll get twice as much as you get from your wine so i know it's a bullshit thing but you get glass of grape juice right right like i mean i know i know that but it is true you're getting antioxidants and you can try and tie that to some benefits right yeah you know what they do is they'll have a study that says like compound found in chocolate shown to increase you know fatty acid mobilization or compound found in red wine right you know increase the longevity of mice super concentrated in like in pill form it's not in the nice you know like like edible form and for the one positive thing it doesn't it doesn't cancel the nine negative things no and it's also the compound and it's also look at the study and no it doesn't like chocolate okay for the most part chocolate's not great i mean i guess you can fit it into your your diet but uh that all this stuff is hilarious it's all click baby so is this like i mean what kind of cancers is this promote all just all yeah there's an increase to your risk of all cancers sort of like an epigenetic it unlocks sort of the potential for it just stressed out like listen you guys i like it is it now is it is it something that is actually in the alcohol or is it that because you i always want to be careful that's a it's a it's a causation not a correlation thing is it or is it that people who drink alcohol tend to over consume on calories therefore in the context of overeating calories and drinking alcohol pretty much feeds and leads all cancer because then that would make sense they control for all that it's the alcohol yeah it's the alcohol itself so without the high calorie but if you moderately if you don't drink a lot it's a very moderate increase in risk but it's not a decrease in risk like some people say and it's definitely not a flat right so there's always an increase i know it like in ancient times okay it saved a lot more lives because water was actually the problem did you know that yeah did you know that so workers rented beer and because it didn't have to be safer yeah so back in the like they were talking like hundreds or thousands of years ago it was safer to drink beer because you're less likely to get a illness from dirty parasites or anything else yeah or bacteria so it's like here you want some water like hell no i'll have the beer that i know is clean and get a little drunk in the process when did we figure out beer you know when that when that came when we went out like how far back does alcohol go thousands and thousands of years to fermented uh like fruit and stuff and was it wine first or did did beer come before wine do we know any of this oh what's older beer because i mean i mean wine wine's in the bible right so does was is beer in the bible wouldn't that be god imagine how weird that would be like if jesus threw like water to be egyptians made it a kind of a project daniel's well there's also me too with uh with honey which was a popular amongst the monks do you know they make alcohol in prison do you have heard about this yeah it's called um what's it called there's a name for it dug i know you've never been there would you serve time yeah yeah it's called something we saw this she called hold on this is crazy look at this chemical analysis recently confirmed that the earliest alcoholic beverages in the world was a mixed fermented drink of rice honey and hawthorn fruit and or grape the residues of the beverage dated 7000 to 6600 bce wow wow from where's this this is a neolithic village in the yellow really river valley i have no idea what that is asia somewhere yeah i don't know where is that yeah the yellow rivers in china china okay what's what is they did a lot of shit what is the e on bce i know bc is before christ but what's e hmm i have no i said before christ existed existed i don't know good good one i'm just never it's always been ad or bc i've never seen bce what's that christ earth is that is bc before or bce before bc yeah how far back are we going okay bce stands for before the common or current era that's interesting i always thought bc was oh is this gonna be like a political yeah oh my god is that really what this is did they change bc okay yes exactly so simply put bce before common era is a secular version of bc before christ do we have to be so we're gonna change everything i did you guys know that i didn't even know that i'm like bce what is bce listen guys happy holidays okay we don't want to talk much more and to go back to your other question on the prison wine it's called pruno it's the alcoholic bit liquid made from apples oranges fruit cocktail like a dirty sock bread they fermented in a toilet in a toilet bro in a plastic bag seriously dirty they do like a dirty sock and they smash it between the mattress and stuff for a while is it the mattress yeah yeah what yeah and then they keister it whoa whoa whoa whoa i think we're taking this i'm just saying they they don't want suckered into drinking that stuff speaking of you gotta get crafty in there keister wine do you know what a fee fee is have you heard of that in prison no no you know that what is that what's so it's so this is i had to decide a trader that worked for me like i know this and i don't know why i had a trainer that worked for me that he was came out of he he was a you know got out of prison whatever i hired him great guy loved him to death um and you know he really want to turn his life around and i would ask him about like like what was it like dude to be in prison this night and he would tell me about like workouts and this and that and then he told me what a fee fee was so a fee fee i think i'm saying right they would get a latex glove and they would cut i guess one of the fingers off and then use like god it's like they use like towels and stuff around aid uh flesh light flesh light yeah so it's like they would use it and they would they would bang it they would have sex with the fee fee and he's like oh yeah you could trade this for x amount of cigarettes or whatever wow in prison so it's it's gets a glove it's like a finger of the glove got it they would wrap like towels or something around it make it real tight and then they'd use some kind of lubricant i know and then they have and i'm not great i know i feel like i'm telling you dude you put a you lock up a bunch of people in there give them nothing to do man the ingenuity is i swear to god dude you see the way they communicate and the shit that they make the tattoo guns that they make out of like a like out of what is it like a tape recorder and just weird it is a great example of like man if you you don't even need that much resources if you really give give the human like just space the space no nothing to do yeah exactly nothing to do but think like how powerful that looks like so hilarious to me like that one show i love ancient aliens they always like they totally dismiss like human ingenuity and there's like aliens taught him how to do this yeah dude he's like get the fuck out bro if you're if you lived 10 000 or 20 or 100 000 years ago and you ain't got nothing to do you're laying back on your back yeah you're gonna figure out the constellations of the stars you know i mean you're gonna figure that should be gonna pick up on some patterns yeah i mean the guys in prison can make a flashlight out of a glove that you can do that knowing your personalities if you guys got sent to prison oh my god yeah five to ten years let's say yeah are you the type that goes in and you're like you get super educated and jacked coming out or do you like fuck this vacation you put your feet up which one are you vacation well i mean i'm always on point like i'm looking around you know i'm tightening i'm tight butthole yeah no i i would i would isolate myself and come and probably come out like educated probably like a knockout of degree or something something i would just focus on something to keep myself i'm going crazy i probably learn like some kind of uh like wood carving skill or something adam would probably be a gang leader i play probably 100 and i'd be playing hearts i've been playing a lot of cards i'm playing a lot of cards yeah organizing organizing all the the the clans suntanning with the gangs you know out in the yard yeah they would have nowhere to throw you though i'd run them both that's why i'd be the first person to do that oh my combine our forces that's right we're gonna run this ms-13 yeah the ultimate ultimate gay yeah that's not let's not get you there i don't want you to do that hey real quick you gotta check out one of our favorite sponsors ned they make full spectrum hemp oil extract products now they have one for sleep and it really does knock you out they have one for normal daily use makes you feel good anti-inflammatory uh it feels great it's a high cbd but full spectrum product so a lot of times they're cbd products you take them you don't feel anything you will feel ned they also have a non cannabinoid product called mellow this is a magnesium based product with some gaba very relaxing this is great to be used daily anyway it's the best hemp oil products you'll get anywhere we've worked with a lot of them this one by far is the best you gotta go check them out head over to mind pump partners dot com click on ned then use the code mind pump for 15% off all right here's the rest of the show our first caller is joe from new jersey what's up joe how can we help you hey what's up what's up um cool so i was wondering what are your thoughts on nmn um like do you guys take that uh have you taken it is it worth it okay what is that a sex toy what is that what is it what is that it's like bdsm except it's uh that's it isn't an acronym for the bondage part a sexual move what is that nicotinamide mononucleotide is that how you said yeah you got it help help me with okay where did you hear about this and uh well i got another question first i want to ask you joe how how long have you been consistently like no breaks been training and what does your workout look like let's start with that first um um so i'm 41 i guess i've been like active and training since i was like 20 good deal so super consistent you would say yeah i do everything i'm not i'm not i don't go to the gym but i i do run a lot i i lift weights i do like calisthenics push-ups pull-ups awesome and then nutrition wise what does that look like what does your diet look like how many grams of proteins carbs and fats are you eating um i don't really pay attention to that i'm uh i'm actually a student of higher beta uh so i just eat i eat really well um okay but protein maybe like uh maybe 60 grams a day maybe okay and what is your how many hours of sleep do you have every night you have a sleep routine before you go to sleep uh no sleep routine i just passed out at like uh like 10 o'clock i wake up at like 5 30 yeah okay so i don't think you should waste your money on any of these supplements that uh like for example what you're talking about i mean there's some studies that shows it might it does this that i mean is it gonna move the needle no i'll tell you what'll move the needle joe start paying attention to your grams of proteins fats and carbs um i would look at your workout i would definitely pay attention to sleep but you know supplements like this kind look and by the way this is coming from a supplement like i'm a i'm a uh i will admit junk and boy i'm a junkie when it comes to supplements i try everything i use everything but when i step outside of myself and my you know my my addiction to these things i mean it it's not going to do it's not going to do anything for you like you know you're eating 60 grams approaching a day i bet if you bump that a little bit you'd probably i know you would see better results than what you're seeing now or what you're seeing what you would see from supplementing with uh with nmm i don't remember the acronym but you know uh nicotinamide mononucleotide there you go i had it written up i know that's a precursor to nad um and yeah yeah and i've heard all the all the fuss about it uh you know shows that it well listen nad there's a company that tried to pay us to to advertise for nad and none of us were impressed with the research around it as far as the the real benefits but here's the thing that's why i wanted to ask you guys because there's so much information out there and it's all it's all confusing yeah yeah you know here's the thing with i mean for me the the the way i kind of look at tease it out i mean sal's right if you're if you're not tracking sleep or not tracking your macros i mean you're going to get you're going to see more gains in in whatever you're pursuing just by by simply doing that there's the other side too uh you're 41 years old you're probably pretty established if you got a decent income and you can burn you know a few hundred bucks a month and i need a big deal uh and so long as all the research is pointing that it's not harmful or dangerous then fuck it play with it i don't care you know that's kind of how i would i would treat it but i the when we address supplements on here there's always so many other things that that somebody who's looking for the competitive edge or wants more from their workouts there's so many other things that we can do that doesn't require you spending any money that will give you way more return than anything that's on the market minus you know illegal drugs right so obviously well even drugs that you put someone in anabolic steroids with a shitty diet yeah you're right that's bad training and they're not going to do as well as someone with good diet good training who's natural and that's anabolic steroids you know and here's the other thing too to pay attention with studies look you you practice aerobatic medicine i'm probably preaching to the choir right now but on a on a you know we could on a physiological level we could say wow increases antioxidant you know activity and mitochondrial function okay but what does that mean because there's there's so complex there's so many downstream and upstream things that get affected when you change something so i can i can say to something i can look at a test and say wow protein synthesis went up right but what does that necessarily mean it couldn't mean we're building more muscle we don't know yet it could mean uh it could mean a lot of different things could be more inflammation depending on the context of the of the individual so in nad you know and it's precursors there's studies but it's not look i'll tell you what if you want to improve mitochondrial function which is one of the main selling points supplement with creatine creatine is thousands and thousands of studies have been done on it over the over the past few decades it's very well studied some of these other compounds not so much and many of the studies that they have are done on animals and very few are done on humans not saying it's dangerous probably not but it's it's kind of a waste of time unless you're admittedly like me where you just like this is fun i like to mess with things in which case it's a go for it and kind of see what happens but if i'm coaching you if i'm training you you know i'm if you're perfect in everything that's one i'll say all right let's have some fun if you're not perfect in everything i was like well let's focus on this other stuff first because you're gonna get way more out of you know changing these things than just you know been taking this this i'm out just because it's like i have to say i'm having fun with nads i'm done Justin takes nads all the time yeah so yeah so there's nads out my mouth that's pretty much it so now i want to give you something because i know we kind of hammered you a little bit it sounds like your your fitness goals are overall fitness and performance is that correct yeah okay i'm just curious about it yeah i actually started taking creatine because you guys so that's the that's the one supplement i think that'll make i definitely will kick the crap out of uh and and i'm in terms of uh you know mitochondrial function and performance do you have maps performance because i think that would be a good program for someone like you no but i'll check it out we'll give it to you we'll send that to you joe no problem yeah all right man thanks for calling in i appreciate it yeah thank you thank you take care yeah dude the supplement industry's really did a number on i knew i knew right where you're going you know right yeah right where you start asking them it's a sunlight it's so true outside and i know we i know i could have gone down a list of like 15 and i know some people that like drop in that haven't listened to the all of the podcast and stuff like that would be like oh well you guys are sponsored by supplements and you talk about supplements it's like yeah but in the context of if you're doing this then okay here or if you're missing these things then this makes sense like not like you should take this to build muscle or this is the best thing for burning body fat or this is you know it's like there's so many other boxes that you can check first before you go try some new supplement that's on the market right now that everybody is touting as the next best thing for whatever you know everybody thinks they're eating well till they start tracking it yeah that's who that's a big factor that i've always found with people that are really interested in supplements it's always like looking for that like last bit of edge yes they haven't really um you know done the work part of of they're looking for the shortcut yeah they're looking for the shortcut they're looking for something that is going to give that type of return that you're talking about but they don't want to do that work and it's like listen if you really want to see some benefits man let me tell you you know track track your food and dial in your sleep routine and there's nothing on the market that i could give you a movie much further nothing and again the the functions of human body are so complex we we we know some of it we know we know the tip of the iceberg we don't know majority of how things interact with you because there's so many things that influenced by other things that we could change one thing and measure that and say it's good and not realize this is why so many pharmaceutical drugs get pulled off the market because it does its targeted thing and we find out later oh shit it increases risk of stroke or looks like this might make Alzheimer's uh more prevalent so we have to pay look i'll give you an example right m tour we measure m tour and when m tour goes up you build more muscle if m tour goes up in a pro cancer environment you get a higher risk of cancer in a healthy environment you just build more muscle does that mean m tours it causes cancer no does that mean m tour is always good to have up no it depends on the context it's very very complicated and so that's why when we look at studies and we're like oh this supplement increases antioxidant capacity or or or you know activity or this one does you know it reduces markers of stress well that doesn't necessarily mean you know ibuprofen reduces markers of inflammation very effectively take ibuprofen all the time you'll notice your joints will start to break down you start to get problems because you need those markers right so it's very complicated and a lot of these supplements sell their products based off these studies that are very narrow and they're almost all very narrow we want to look at the whole picture and have some length of time with people using that's why I use creatine creatine's been decades and it's been studied so many times thousands of studies peer reviewed that we're we're pretty sure we know what it does well especially a supplement like this like this would fall I'm assuming this I don't know anything really about it but I'm assuming that it falls under the performance category people are like that the biohacking right now that that whole community uses stuff like this so right but I mean it's it's it's more based off of of enhancing performance it's not a supplement because most people are are not getting whatever it is in their body and they need this it's sold as slows down the aging process reduces the negative effects of aging may increase your your overall health and longevity may improve endurance there was one study that showed an improvement in endurance with some athletes but that's how they're selling it right so and I've like I've messed with everything and I've taken this we all did for a while I didn't notice anything and that's happened a lot to me was there doesn't mean it doesn't work by the way that's just me um but man you you got to look at you're trying to make your car go faster like stop putting stickers on it in a spoiler like it's engine let's focus on that first and then let's move down the line of the most important things like your four cylinder you know gas efficient car and you're trying to slap a spoiler on it to make it have better performance you're wasting your money and your time well that's why I was asking that because the next step you after you track after you do think big rocks like sleep and stuff like that the next thing would be to actually find out if you're deficient in anything right there's something that your your body needs and you're missing whether it be vitamin d zinc or iron something that you're not getting enough of magnesium and that can make a big difference in your sleep health performance like to me you're better off looking one too it's a lot cheaper by the way too most those supplements are relatively cheap to supplement with and you're giving your body something that you've tested for that I go oh wow I'm under I don't have enough vitamin d that is so important for so many different functions okay well instead of me going out and getting some experimental supplement or new thing that bio hackers are talking about it's like I'm gonna go take I'm gonna discipline myself to take my vitamin d every single day since that will make a greater impact yeah and look I'm gonna read Doug just pulled up a study so I'm gonna give you an example right so nmn supplementation promotes anti-aging mi rna expression profile in the aorta of aged mice okay what does that mean what does that mean that means so specific that just means that that means that there's this anti-aging profile that we think is anti-aging and it it looks like it promotes that and then here's the part the rest of the study predicting epigenetic rejuvenation and anti atherogenic effects predicting this is so a lot of probably words yeah like and we don't know like we don't know if you if you change the profile that profile through supplementation is that the same thing as it's a bit of a leap yeah is that the same thing as looking at a young aorta it's like three leaps there's like three leaps in the huge leaves 15 words and there's three leaps in there yeah none of it is human related our next color is Colby from North Carolina what's up Colby how can we help you hey guys that's going first off thanks so much for what you guys do really appreciate all the context you guys bring to this instead of pedaling on one size fits all kind of things so I appreciate that I guess a little backstory first 39 kind of just trying to be a healthy strong guy but like many people who call in that journey started some time ago was CrossFit for me I really enjoyed it it you know it gave me an entry to strength training but I would never benefit from consistency because I would hurt myself be out for two three four weeks get back into it for a month or two hurt myself so I I straight away straight away from that and I really like the Olympic weightlifting so I moved to another gym that did Olympic weightlifting and strength and conditioning and then that kind got a little boring for me so I just chose to focus on strength and conditioning been pretty consistent with that now but so my actual question comes from an episode you guys did recently where you said that chase performance and aesthetics will follow which I really like that so I'm curious if there is some ways that you can add some movements or some exercises to a strength focused workout that would accelerate some of the aesthetic gains because I'm not quite there in the ways that I would hope to be okay well you can combine you can combine the two we have a sexy athlete bundle I believe which includes maps aesthetic and mass performance and so so think of it this way let's say you have four workouts in the week Colby you could make two and two right so two performance kind of based two like aesthetic maybe bodybuilder focused or you go three and one depending on which one's more important to you or mix it up or you can run one for a while and then that's the way the sex is another way to do performance and add the focus sessions in between yeah there's lots of ways you could kind of skin this cat are you are you familiar with any of our programs do you have any of them Colby well that was kind of my follow-up was I've really been looking at them recently and I've been looking at the one that I think was anabolic to performance to something there was like a little three pack there but so that was kind of my follow-up question was is there a program you guys would push me towards that would be a good strength focus that might you know help you get bigger arms in the process or something so if you would allow me to be your coach and tell you exactly what I would want you to do it'd be I'd love to see you run anabolic run performance and then run mass aesthetic in that order in that order because it literally ideal that it's going to hit everything that you're looking for and then after you run through all three of those which by the way is going to take you the next year to get through right each one of them is about three months or so so once you go through all three of them then you can kind of do what Sal was saying where you can kind of pick and pull from some of them like oh I'm going to run you know two days a week that's going to look like maps performance the other two days I'm going to pull in maps aesthetic like and that we encourage that right after we tell people like you know trust the process and our expertise in building and writing programs follow it to a T and then after that you can start to kind of play with and mold to more to your specific goals and I think that that order would be ideal yeah the other thing to consider to Colby with aesthetics especially for men is getting lean makes a huge difference with aesthetics you get a way I mean just getting somebody to get down to you know nine ten percent body fat and it's like all of a sudden just these aesthetics really start to pop out so I don't know how lean you are I don't know what your body fat percentage or if you've ever really gotten to that point where you you can see that kind of muscle definition but that makes a tremendous difference when it comes to aesthetics and sometimes we think we need we want to get bigger to improve our aesthetics when in fact we just need to get a little leaner well this honestly it sounds like to me and just because like I'm susceptible to wanting to just do athletic moves wanting to just do Olympic list wanting to just kind of go in that performance world only exclusively once I ventured into hypertrophy training it was game changer for me and I don't know if you've actually put an entire focus on hypertrophy training specifically but to interrupt you know that and create a whole new stimulus for your body it's going to respond and you're going to love it yeah so we're going to you since you don't have those programs we'll send them to the RGB bundles you'll actually get all three and then follow them in that order maps anabolic maps performance and then maps aesthetic and you should get a great deal of what you're looking for great yeah I appreciate it no problem there you go brother awesome thanks guys you're welcome you know Justin is is right like he when he actually started to do that his uh you know sex appeal on the sexometer went from like a four to like a solid six after he started I finally got some of your DMs yeah it was a solid six solid six unfortunately it was all dudes hey let me tell you at least I started getting DMs dude hey you get a guy tells you you look good you look good that's true that's probably a better compliment that's a better compliment I think about I think that most guys are actually truly seeking that oh yeah be honest at this at this age right now you're working out of the gym what's more what it's going to make you feel more impressed if a girl walks up to you goes you have a nice back or if a dude comes up and be like dude your back is your arms are looking sick bro yeah dude high five yeah that's like that's worth like 10 girls saying that too just being honest here yeah I know that his question is common right the whole balancing of performance and aesthetics they do work very well together they really do I mean you can go extreme at one or the other but you can you can get a great balance with the two because they do communicate well to each other they're not competing you know signals necessarily like you would find with other type of pursuits well we always have to remember you know I forget sometimes the the amount of people that are probably just finding us today right I mean I don't know exactly what it is but it's probably thousands every day that are listening to their very first show and we just assume that they kind of know the way we wrote these and the intent that we wrote them in right it's and that this is why we wrote this like we wrote the the you know maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic in that order because it really is for the most part there's always exceptions to rule and people very very specific narrow goals but for the general population that just wants to move better look better get stronger like that is the order that I would take all those clients in so they could learn kind of the the process of building routines around those specific adaptations and then from there we would mold and modify based off of the things they like they don't like and more specific to their goals but I mean when I talk to someone outside of our listener base and I'm telling them other programs like you look at it like an like an education process yeah that's I mean we wrote them with that intent that's why they have so much stuff inside them is like we weren't just like telling people let go work out go try this workout routine it's like we're trying to educate you on how to build a program for yourself I can't stop thinking about the sexometer I haven't seen this this is like a scientific tool yeah I'll have chokie posted on Instagram it starts like this and then it gets high noon solid six our next caller is Nicholas from Massachusetts what's up Nicholas how can we help you hey um so the question I submitted to you guys was uh how do you know when you've reached your genetic growth potential and I very vague question but based on maybe uh your age and training style oh that's uh I have no idea that's a tough one Nick how long you've been working out consistently for and how old are you this sounds like a Facebook uh formula you know like you find out your favorite what your favorite color tells you about your genetic potential yeah yeah yeah so how long have you been training consistently and how old are you uh 38 um I've been I started lifting when I was in like second grade with my dad my dad was a uh he was a runner Olympic alternative and um he got me into running and lifting really early once I hit 18 I took my first um like basics for lifting um like a fundamental class in college and then um from 18 to now I've lifted consistently um doing a bunch of different ways of lifting um when I lived in New York I was doing a strongman training with some strongmen I I worked out with at a local gym um I've been doing martial arts for um probably about 15 years now and um in between all that I just uh yeah I'm basically trying to build my body up to be more durable and uh stronger and faster that's great well okay so we have a website it's got a must muscular potential calculator I don't want to get the website I'm going to get the actual website for Doug it's maps macro oh maps macro dot com it's one of the links on there yeah there's a link on there for to figure out your your muscular potential now this is a pretty it's a pretty generic good formula it's generic and they based it off of the top natural bodybuilders and the sizes of their wrists and in their their ankles and so it's super super general but you know here's a deal I mean it's hard to say you've been doing this for a long time and I know why you're asking this question right you're motivated by changes in your body you want to look forward to new things you know I'm sure at this point with being the fact that you you've been doing martial arts for a long time you've been working out for a long time you probably love the process right I'm assuming you love the process of exercise regardless of listen listen sal the answer is way easier than that if you haven't ran through every maps program at least twice there's still potential yeah there you go 10 percent more yeah yeah if you haven't done every one of those at least twice there's still room brother yeah no I mean but you get what I'm saying right Nick like if you love the process that's where you end up you know once you start to get older and you've been doing this for a long time I've been doing a long time too I'm at the point now where I love look I love making gains and strength I love seeing my body change am I going to beat my best all-time PRs can I I don't know maybe maybe not but I love the process so much I'm never gonna stop and then if you if you need that motivation I suggest you try this is a fun little trick maybe not good to do all the time this might be my ego talking but compare yourself to your 38 year old friends that haven't worked out and you see and wait and watch as you guys get older how much further apart you get from them in terms of how you look and your feel and performance and health so that's that's the that's the real value so you might even start declining once you hit your mid 40s in comparison to where you were in your mid 30s but compare yourself to other people in their mid 40s it's gonna you're gonna look like you're from a different planet well have you actually hit a wall right now is that what's like spurring yeah so I've hit a wall pre-covid I was doing a training routine where I you know I would pick basically the big five lifts and I would do 10 sets of about maybe 70 to 80 percent of my one rep max I would knock out three or four reps and then I'd go immediately into another big lift for three to four reps catch my breath go back and I would do that 10 times I'd do 10 sets of that for each one of the lifts it was a pretty intense workout most of the time I needed a spotter based on you know the weight I'm doing and how many how many sets and I was seeing good results um COVID hit and I was uh remanded to lifting in my basement with basically just a rack and a bar still got a lot of work done but um since uh probably last year I can't basically put any more weight on the bar if I do it incrementally then I find that you know the weight drops back down I'm not able to hit that lift for another couple weeks maybe a month um a lot of different programs I've been involved in trying to trying to increase strength and um endurance as far as lifting and my weight has stayed pretty much consistent I've eaten more I've eaten less uh weight's not really getting above 190 and I'm six feet tall so stuck at 190 about 10 to 11% body fat um I know there's other factors like uh I got my testosterone levels tested I am low uh I don't sleep enough I know that um with shift work and call outs and uh over times two kids uh hobbies I'm getting about six hours of sleep maybe a night it was four so I'm working up from four um so it's just that's a big demand yeah in in conjunction with that type of a workout I mean there there might be a little demanding there might be a nice little tweak right there in itself right so just just hearing you say that now knowing that you're you're already kind of stressing yourself a little bit with with the kids in the sleep because we know what that's like um and then in addition to that your training routine is pretty damn intense uh Sal says this really well where he tells people you know what your body can tolerate and what's ideal for it are two different things so you may have trained yourself to be able to tolerate or handle that much intensity in your workout but your body may be trying to tell you that this is not what's ideal for it to continue to see progress so uh that would be something right away I tweak I know I made the joke about running through every maps program twice before you hit your muscle potential it's a little bit of a joke but at a seriousness have you actually kind of gone through and looked at our programs are there any of them that you've ran before or any of them that interest you because I have an idea on on which one I'd like to see you run um you guys always talk about the the maps anabolic and um I started reading through them a couple nights ago I I've looked at them I I actually changed my training routine recently because I I figured I was over training yeah um so I started backing off on the weight so one day a week I'm doing high reps big five then I'll take a day off to do some like cardio stretch I go to physical therapy from my back um then the next day I'll hit like a medium eight to 12 reps of like uh 60 70 maybe up to 80 percent and then one day a week um after another break day I will uh go back to lifting heavy and trying to get closer to my 90 one rep max um I've taken the number of sets down I focused a lot more on warm-up work and just basically going through the movement of the lift to make sure that my movement is consistent no matter how much weight I'm doing and um I've been trying to do that and still no movement but I'd have to look at your your routines a little bit more in depth and I mentioned in the email that I've paid for online programs I did uh the Julian Smith one did that for about a year or two it was just way too much volume a ton of volume so I'm in the gym for two and a half three hours doing the workout yeah Nick just so here's something that's two things first off um if your testosterone is low uh hormone therapy for me at least was like completely I mean I gained 12 pounds of lean body mass because mine was low too brought it up to the you know normal high it was a game changer but here's the second part this is something that's interesting for those of us that have been working out for many many years you're you're getting you're getting close to 40 and I've actually started really pieces together even for myself and if you look at studies actually kind of show this you need less volume less frequency and less intensity as you get older to get the same less is more of the same results yeah so um I I lift hard four days a week now I was I was a five and six day a week kind of guy before now I could tolerate it if I if I did it now but I wouldn't be progressing as well as I am right now so especially with muscle memory and especially with your past so because you've been training for so long less actually starts to get you better results as you start to get older so I would back way down and start setting the intensity you're trying to hit like 90% of your one rep max I you know I would I would go way less than that and you know like really feeling like the two reps short of failure I don't know if like you're going like you said you had a spotter so that's another thing is like you might be going you know too close to failure to where you know it affects the the workouts preceding that so you know you should be able to get into the the following workouts energized and feeling like your body's responding even more so you can build upon that versus you know being so hammered that your body feels like you know it's grinding its way through so here's my prescription and where I was heading okay we'll give you maps and a ball so I'm going to have Doug send that over to you start there when you train that to make sure you leave two reps in the tank right two in the tank don't train to failure you don't need a spotter you don't need you don't even need to go to failure yourself so leave two reps in the tank on all the exercises after that go to performance and then strong so that if I if I had a hold of you you were a client of mine I would convince you to back and while we're backing off too I would be talking to you about your sleep routine and maybe getting your blood work done and you know by the way too we have a free hormones form so you can join it for free we have doctors that go in there and speak twice a month that's totally free to you you can ask them questions it's amazing so if you're not taking advantage of that take advantage of that it's mine guys end up for it oh you did okay good good so make sure you're taking advantage of that talking to those guys they're brilliant when it comes to talking about hormones so that's what I would do I would back you and it's a three day a week type of program it's full body I would be really pushing you not to to push beyond what it's programmed in there and really focus on our sleep make sure we're dialing in there getting yourself adequate rest and then from there move to like a performance I think you'll enjoy the performance of a training you'll benefit from the mobility work and then I think strong I think you would really like I don't know how much you've done a lot of the unconventional type of lifts but I love to send that program to people that have been training consistently in the kind of bodybuilder style or it's very posterior chain heavy which is awesome yeah and it's so unique right there's a lot of movements in there that you know even if you've been lifting a long time that you've never really trained there are a lot of people that say like oh yeah I do circus presses all the time you know or you know sandbag carries that's a you that's a normal part of my routine so it's got a lot of unconventional lifts in there that you know that's another thing that might shake up a little bit breaking us through that plateau is just is focusing on a new adaptation okay sounds like solid advice excellent so we'll send that program over to you and then again keep keep what I said in mind and you will you may find that less as you get older starts to behave in the ways that your old workouts did with more your body may respond much better I'm finding this out right now for myself and it's it's very different than how I responded 10 years ago so give that a shot okay so bless yep yep all right thanks for calling in all right thanks for having me no problem yeah it's weird it is very strange like uh you know I I cut I went down from six days a week to five days a week got a little bit better progress then went from five to four with an added mobility day so I have one day where I do kind of mobility and you know a little core work whatever yeah and I'm getting great results and you'll find that especially if you worked out in the past that you've got this base that's kind of following you you need less to get better results and it just as you age it's just kind of honestly I think that people just don't realize how much stress they're they're you know accumulating throughout the day and and that whether that be work stress you know relationship stress like lack of sleep stress like I feel like there's just a lot more responsibilities there's a lot more demand on adults you know as they go forward they don't really like put that in comparison to physical stress that's I mean I'm with you on that I think it's less about the age and it's more so that you've been redlining your whole life and you don't even know it and you don't even realize it then all of a sudden you get older and you kind of force yeah what was your biggest worry when you were 25 right where are we going Saturday yeah yeah so yeah and you just been you've been you've been burning the candle at both ends and then finally something forces you to back off a little bit and then all of a sudden you realize oh shit my body's responding so well it's just tough because especially if you've been working out for a long time you think you know right what works for you but the context has changed well what you said what you say I think it's so good which is the you know understanding that what you tolerate and what is best or ideal or optimal for gains is different that that can't be said enough like that that it's all dose dependent I don't I don't I definitely didn't think that way as even as a young trainer no it was all about the max I could talk yeah if I could do if I wasn't sore enough or I could handle another set or another because everything that you see especially on social media is promoting that the the all out intensity and the more and the push the drive the motivation so it's it makes you think that I gotta do more I can do more I can do more and it's like no there's there's there's an amount that your body can tolerate and then there's a mount that is optimal for the best results and so and they're not the same at all and figuring that out for yourself is very difficult especially I think when we're younger and we're kind of figuring our whole way out and figuring out how to program and train and diet and it's obvious when his his uh he's at a hard plateau his sleep is terrible and his hormones I mean how many more signs do you need that you're you're overdoing it it's like that's for sure and it's hard you take someone what do you say like two years old he's been training with his dad to a second grade yeah so he's he's like he's been he's been an athletic person his whole entire life so he has that kind of athletic mind I mean he did what his dad was an Olympic alternate so you know I mean he's got good genetics right and you know there's and he's got that can probably a competitive aspect the way he approaches everything so you know telling that guy that yo you're five six day a week I want you to train twice a week I mean that's really I would take him all the way down to two or three less yeah our next caller is Sarah from Connecticut what's up Sarah how can we help you hi um so I just want to start off by saying I am so grateful that you guys are letting me ask my question and I'm so excited to be asking it I'm a longtime fan I've been around since Adam was competing and um you guys have truly been like the magic pill of like my health and fitness journey and so I just want to say thank you awesome thank you Sal is a pill to work with too in case you're wondering yep yeah um so my question is I'm a high school biology teacher and I've been given the opportunity to pilot and create a biology of sports performance class at my school cool um so this is truly an opportunity for me to create a dream job so I want to do it right and make sure it's as successful as possible it's meant to be geared toward the high school athletes so they can learn how to maximize their performance and their sport through training nutrition and recovery although the regular student will also be allowed entry into the class I'm very excited to say that my principal cleared this for a year-long science elective class and we'll be allowed to access the school's brand new weight room two days a week during class time uh we will spend the other three days of the week in the classroom the goal for students by the end of the year is to design and implement a five-week program working towards a goal they identify to help them better perform at their sport the biology portion of the class will be focusing on anatomy and physiology of relevant body systems and we'll be working on improving scientific literacy by unpacking and analyzing scientific studies some of which I plan to grab from what you guys have discussed on the show um so I need your help in planning the sequence of how to teach the fundamentals of training principles to students there's the classroom portion of things like how to manage frequency volume and intensity movement patterns such as squat hinge press and pull movement patterns and different planes of movement such as the saginal plane the transverse plane and rotational movements the difference in benefits of compound versus isolation movements the difference in benefits of bilateral and unilateral movements and eventually how to possibly write an effective training program um then there's the portion of teaching proper form and mechanics of lists in the weight room um so I will also have access to bands and pvc pipes in the classroom for working on mobility isometrics and things like trigger sessions I want to do my best to blend theory what the science says and reality to give students a deep understanding of how they can be the best athletes they can be um so my question is how would you recommend to sequence teaching training to kids both in the classroom and weight room simultaneously as theory and implementation don't always line up uh this is awesome yeah I wish I had you everything you just said is awesome yeah and like Justin said you obviously have been listening to the show for a long time uh this is way cool you know what um Justin what do you think about sharing with her what you're doing right now with the the football team the high school football team yeah I think the the way you laid that out with a the isometric foundation and then you build upon that you want if you want something with like a philosophy or a theory behind it on like how we would teach somebody those I think what you're doing with them is a pretty solid I think what you're proposing is much more comprehensive um what I had to kind of do is scale back in terms of what I could establish pretty quickly without having to uh educate and explain too much um and that was like a big hurdle for me because I want to establish basically everything you just mentioned it's amazing like I I think this is a whole course that you know kids could go through and find a ton of value with uh so for me it was really just about like hitting um you know the biggest offenders as quickly as possible and that's really just like body communication and and stability and control their body and so that's where I found a lot of value in isometrics and placing them in these positions in these split stance positions in um you know positions where they have to build strength and and generate force uh so we've been going through like the first month month and a half we're gonna be doing isometric heavy and then doing a unilateral in conjunction with that to uh address a lot of those things right out of the gates uh and then progressing them further into uh like more of our five by five type style with compound lifts um and so I mean I have I have this whole thing as a potential uh full blown program for student athletes uh you know in the making but that's something that uh you know maybe we can communicate offline later and I can kind of show you the full sort of scope of it. Yeah Sarah you know um I'm gonna speak from a student perspective okay so first off I wish I could take this class I wish you I had you as a teacher yeah and high school sounds super awesome I know the challenge with teaching anything to anyone is can I get them excited about it because obviously an excited interested student is gonna absorb way more information than one that's maybe not so excited and not so interested so you've been listening to the show for a long time and so you already know that our formula is entertain and then also throw in information and we did that on purpose because we learned as trainers that most of our clients were not fitness fanatics and if I if I was talking to a fitness fanatic I could get real deep in the weeds with the science and talk specifically about training and adaptation and they would love it like if I did that to my clients I would have lost half of them you know three months in so I had to really figure out how to communicate to them in effective ways what I'm going to recommend to you is to use a lot of analogies analogies are really cool like an example would be the analogy that we use about the central nervous system and the and muscles and in the relationship and I like to use a speaker versus the amplifier analogy another thing would be to talk about myths right so when you have your students in there you could talk about some of the most common myths like um lifting weights makes you bulky right that's a big myth and um you know how to speed up your metabolism like I think that would get kids kind of excited like what do you mean faster metabolism what does that look like and I thought you know lifting weights did make me bulky you may even want to bring up contributions of different uh you know types of exercise or sports into kind of what you're talking about so I would have a picture of Arnold what have bodybuilders taught us about how the body adapts to exercise like what has power lifters taught us and you can use celebrities so that the kids can be like oh I know Lance Armstrong like what did we learn from that kind of training and how does that work and how does that make my body perform you know even better you might even put something up and say why do we find attractive bodies attractive right so that's kind of a lord like what is that what are you talking about well why do we think men with broad shoulders and tight weights like well that may show signs of better performance and higher testosterone levels and why do we find you know you know these types of things to look better than others there's a biological component I think those things would make people very interested in kind of what you're talking about but I honestly you ran down the list of the stuff you're going to talk about I can't think of anything else yeah that I would add really aside from just trying to make it kind of to hook them right engaging yeah hook them with the myths and the you know maybe ask them like you know what's a better way to if somebody's trying to get lean and lose weight what's a better approach and then you can put like running every single day lifting weights or whatever and then you can go in and kind of counter some of the myths because that gets people you know hooked right out I like the example of your different avatars and you can make it very simple in terms of like what typically like their training protocol would right like as a difference just because of what you brought up with them trying to create their own program it'd be cool to put those examples there just to give them some some kind of baseline right for every one of these adaptations that you went through which I think are all the ones that we'd want to cover in a foundational you know class like this I would do exactly that but before we get like too deep in the weeds because this literally we could turn this into like a three-hour conversation right here yeah I mean that'd be great I wouldn't mind it well this is what I'm going to do for you so and I think this is the best place for us to start I think all of us are when you were reading it off you should see the looks on all our faces everybody was like oh this is so cool um we would love to help you so I think the I think the the next step for us to help you would be it already sounds like you're on the right track I think to start to to lay out what the curriculum is going to look like and then running it by Justin or one of us or all of us you can email us personally when we when we hang up I'll have Jerry because you're in contact with her give you our personal emails and then what we can do is just kind of you know as you're working through it uh and you and you put stuff together we can give our feedback of oh I love that or maybe add this to it um I think that's probably where we be the most valuable versus giving you all these like vague random ideas yeah you know you know it was really cool to totally you know just something else Sarah is that when you show when you can show a student a change immediately in how their body's moving it's really exciting so I remember one time I took one of my first certifications and they were talking about how you could get a muscle to elongate easier so what they did is they put us in this on the floor they had us do a hamstring stretch you could only go so far and then they said now I want you to push against the person who's stretching your hamstring and hold that for 30 seconds which I did and then relax and all of a sudden I got three more inches of flexibility immediately right so I was like oh my gosh this is so weird you know it's like almost like doing a an experiment in class where you're showing you know the effect of something right away like that kind of stuff gets people so engaged and so interested in kind of what's going on so I can't stress that enough like if I would and I did I did volunteer a few times and teach nutrition and exercise to students and I really get them excited by doing stuff like that because once I got them engaged it was the rest was you know well I mean I think we're we're throwing a bunch of things at Sarah that she's probably good at she's a fucking teacher right so I think what you're looking from us is the expertise on how you program the curriculum and uh and I definitely think that we can help and I and I do it and I would like to help you so and I think the place that we start is you begin laying out what is you know what is you know first month or week of the curriculum you're planning on it to look like and then allow us to kind of put our two cents in um and and do that and I think this is great because Justin is literally in this world right now we are on the last we were flying from Utah just last week or the week before and we were all looking over what he was creating for these high school students right now so this is kind of where we're at right now and I think that uh maybe you guys could definitely help each other out yeah that would be that would be very much appreciated um because that that is where I'm struggling it's I like I know all these principles for myself and I know how to apply them to myself but in terms of like how to teach it to kids so it's understandable and digestible is where I'm struggling so like the order of how to teach it to them yeah yeah excellent no no yeah we'd love to get involved so yeah appreciate your questions there and thank you so much for what you're doing these kids are really lucky yep thank you yeah how how fun yeah I wish I had that class yeah I know right it's you know though it's really exciting that um that we're seeing stuff like this I mean it's I mean god when we all were in school like you know PE was the extent of you know any sort of you know anatomy or physical education that you got and it was so generic I just think if you teach kids about their bodies and what's happening and here's why you feel this way and here's what happens when you do this and that I think it's so valuable that's a this is like valuable life information because when I get them as adults as a trainer and they hire me we have to unpack so much nonsense they just there's they just don't know anything about what's going on and how this works and why do I feel this way and it's like my god we could have learned that well I love I really loved your idea of give these kids a you know a famous person or athlete I know I was picturing it that's right like literally you could you know and that's how I think I would write this curriculum and let's let's the way Justin programmed to give like a generic overview is like you know he he did a lot of central nervous system training at the beginning right so isometric right so that's the foundation of it right so then I would I would pick like a sport or a person that you can connect that to and say what did they teach us about that I mean like the benefits of isometrics and then break down all the science that supports that and then so for this first month kids we are going to be learning some of the best isometric moves and this is how we would apply it to you we're going out this is why we're doing it here's where we learned it from or imagine you have a picture of like the rock like how does how do you guys think the rock works out how he actually works out what could we what do you think he could do different what we'll learn from that what about this particular celebrity this person because it just gets the kids like oh I follow that person I want to see what they're doing you know just to get them engaged yeah and it's it's trial and error too so she doesn't have to put so much pressure on this to be perfect like honestly that's the biggest thing I've learned is as I'm going through it I'm writing notes even to the program that I had written down on paper and this is just something we learned as trainers anyways is that you know we iterate we constantly iterate based off of the feedback and so you know it's going to find that it's obviously a different audience and and they're going to respond a little bit differently and like you said I think the celebrity angle you're going to find you know moments like that where it's more relatable definitely lean into those moments totally look if you like our information head over to mind pump free dot com and check out our guides we have guides that can help you with almost any fitness or health goal you can also find all of us on instagram so justin is at mine pump justin I'm a mind pump salin adam is at mine pump adam