 You can now follow me and all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. You know, I was bringing in $8, $9, $10 million a week. I had my own jet plane, my own helicopter. I had 300 guys under me. I had the Russian mob guys from Brighton Beach that were my partners. When they wanted to assassinate Fidel Castro, they came to us to pull it off. The CIA actually came to the mafia to help them kill Castro and Cuba at that time. I mean, back in the days of Al Capone, I mean, the truth of the matter is, Capone controlled a lot of the politicians and a lot of the police. It was very corrupt back then. And that continued for quite some time. I mean, look, I had politicians that would do things for me. I needed licenses from my company, the gas company, so I could steal the tax. You couldn't get the license, it was hard. But I had political help to get, I had 18 licenses. I was paying politicians to get them for me. When Rudy Giuliani indicted me, I was the first major mob guy that they indicted under the Rico Statute, the racketeering statute. The day of my arraignment when they locked me up and then you go to court and they read you the charges and then you get bail. They gave me a million dollar bail. But Rudy was in the courtroom with me. And he told my lawyer and me, he says, if I convict Francis on this case, he's going to get double what his father's got. I'm going to give him a hundred years. Ben Moran, then today's guest, we've got Michael Francizi. How are you? How are you, Stephen? Yeah, James. I'm a good start. Good start. You can call me what you want, brother. James, I got you now. First and foremost, how are you? I'm good. I've been here a week now, close to a week. And, you know, my third trip to the United Kingdom and great. People are great. I just can't understand anybody, but other than that, everything is great. Well, now you're just going to struggle even more, mate, with a Scottish man. But let's talk about the tour straight away. We'll plug that. How many dates have you got booked in? We have 15 right now that are firm. And I think there's going to be about 10 more. We're doing 25 altogether. We're starting in London, July 2nd at the Grosvenor. Big event, big deal. And we're going to go all through the UK. We're going to Scotland. We're going to Wales. And we may even hit Ireland also. So very excited. Good. Where can people buy these tickets, Michael? They can go to MichaelFrancisTour.com. And I think there'll be a link up someplace. And tickets are going fast. Ever since Wednesday, they've been flying. So grab your tickets. Big fan of yourself. I've watched many of your interviews. Very powerful. Out of everybody, you probably find yourself lucky to still even be breathing on this planet. One of the biggest money makers being in prison. You've had tips out in your life. You've changed your life, which is noble thing to do. I respect that. Thank you. But first and foremost, I always go back to the start of my guests. Where did you grow up? How it all began? You know, I'll tell you this, James. If you would have told me 20 years ago that I'd be doing what I've been doing now, I would have said you're crazy, right? But for me, it all started back in Brooklyn, New York. My dad was the underboss of the Colombo family, one of the five New York Coastal and Ooster families. And so I grew up in that lifestyle. You know, my dad was a very high profile figure, kind of like the John Gotti of his day back in the 50s, 60s. And so, you know, I knew the environment, but my dad didn't want me in that life. He wanted me to go to school. He wanted me to be a doctor, actually. So I was on that path. And I love my dad. He was very supportive of me growing up. He had gotten some real trouble in the 60s. He was indicted several times in the state of New York, went to trial three times, very serious crimes, eventually acquitted, found not guilty. But then in 1966, he was indicted on a big case by the feds for masterminding a nationwide string of bank robberies. He was a mastermind, allegedly. He was convicted and sentenced to 50 years in prison. And in 1970, after he lost all his appeals, they shipped him off to Levmore to do his time. I was a pre-med student. He was going to be a doctor. And Joe Colombo was a boss of my family. I got very close with him and a lot of my dad's friends. You know, and they said, Mike, what are you doing going to school? If you don't help your father out, he's going to die in prison. Because my dad, obviously, you know, he was in that life. He did a lot of bad things. But that particular crime, James, that he was convicted of, he was innocent. My dad was no bank robber. And I'll take that to my grave. So I wanted to help him out. We met in the visiting room in prison, and I said, Dad, I'm not going to school. If I don't help you out, you're going to die in here. And it was during that conversation that he proposed me for membership into the Colombo family. He said, if you're going to be on the street, do it the right way. And he proposed me, which is the process that you go through before you become a member. That's how it started. How much pressure did you feel from your dad? Obviously, you've looked up to your dad, a very powerful man, but he's obviously not wanting to go down the route because as soon as you join, he knows instead of prison, there's two options in that life, you know, that's yourself. Yeah. How much added pressure on you was it to try and help your dad instead of the dad looking out for you and saying, look, son, save yourself and don't go down the route I went down? You know, I didn't realize it at the time, James. It wasn't really pressure. You know, I wasn't a guy that wanted to be part of that life all my life. You know, I was an athlete in school. I was going to be a doctor. So, you know, it's not like guys that wanted their whole life to be part of that life. For me, no. So when he said to me, this is the way to go, I said, okay, dad, if this is what you want, I'm ready to do it. I didn't feel pressure. I really didn't. But, you know, I mean, it was just really trying to help him out. If that was the way to do it, then fine, let's do it. How was it as a kid growing up? How was it as a kid? Yeah. You know, I mean, look, it was different. You know, we had the pressure of my dad's name out there all the time. I had issues in school. Hey, your dad's a mafia dad. I fight. You know, we had that kind of a thing. We had police and law enforcement around us all the time. So it was a crazy environment. But, you know, you get used to it, I guess. I don't know. You deal with it. How long did you have left at med school? Well, I was two years into it. So I had another two years of pre-med. It was in college. And then I was going on to med school. So I had done two years. Did you have a big family, brothers, sisters? Yeah. I was one of seven. One of seven. So I had two brothers and the rest sisters. But I was the only one that really got involved in that life. My younger brother did. But he had a tremendous drug problem. So he never went anywhere with it. How does that affect your dad? Does your dad blame himself for? Everybody has choices in life. But I speak to a lot of criminals and understand the majority of people in crime were either bullied or abused when they're younger or their dad was never around. People make choices because they try to do external things to fulfill an internal problem, if you know what I mean. Like, did your dad have a blame himself for the way some of his kids went? You know, James, that's the one issue that I had with my dad later on in that he never took responsibility. My family was destroyed. Destroyed. And he never took responsibility for that because he always said, this is not my fault. I was framed. I wouldn't have been in jail. He would have been to jail anyway because we all go to jail. But he never took responsibility. And I don't know if it was out of guilt or maybe it was just, you know, he was a narcissistic kind of guy in that respect. And he just would never claim responsibility for what happened to his family. Never. And to view the man last week who was involved in IRA, which is the army, the Irish army in Ireland, to this day, he still thinks like a soldier, even though the war is done, the peace has been agreed. There's no violence anymore in his mind because of the misery that both sides done to each other, the deaths of children, family members, everything. He still thinks every morning that he's a soldier. The reason being is because if he comes out of that play role in his mind, all the feelings of everything that he has been involved in seen will come to the surface. And eventually he's seen men broken by it. So he has to convince himself that he's still a soldier. Do you feel as if your dad had to stay in character because of the things he's seen and done in his life? You know, I think with my dad, his legacy in that life was more important to him than anything. He wanted to be known as the stand-up guy that would never hurt his friends, you know, as far as talking to law enforcement. That meant more to him than anything. More, I hate to say more than his family because he did love his family, but his personal legacy meant more than anything. So I think that's what it was, you know? Hey, I was framed. None of this was my fault. If I was home, none of this would have happened to my family. And he lived that way and he died that way. So what age did you join the family then? The family business? I started out when I was 21. I was a recruit, you know, learning the ropes, so to speak. And I got made officially when I was 24. And what's the process to get made? Well, you know, first you have to prove yourself. And so you're, you know, two years, two and a half years of doing that. And the ceremony after you've made your bones and you prove yourself, the ceremony was very solemn. It was a dimly lit room late at night. There were six of us that took the oath that night. And you walk into a room and the boss and the underboss and the consulier and all the captains are there. And you actually take an oath. And you swear your loyalty to Kosanostra. You swear the oath of Omerta, meaning you'll never talk about the life, never admit that it even exists. And, you know, they draw some blood from your finger. And after that night, if you accept the oath, you're a made guy. What is Omerta? Omerta means it's silence. It means you would never admit that you were part of that life or that that life even exists. That's really what Omerta is. A lot of people think when you take the oath of Omerta, you take the oath to kill people and steal and rob. That's not at all. You're never supposed to admit that the life even exists to anybody. So obviously I broke my oath because I talk about the life, but that's what it really is. How many families are there? Five families in New York? Five families in New York, yes. And the mafia started in Sicily, is that correct? Started in Sicily, yeah. And so out of all the families, who did you think was the strongest? By the numbers, the strongest families were the Genovese family and the Gambino family. They both had about 250 made guys, guys that actually took the oath. Our family had about 115 guys, Columbus and the Lucches and Bonanno's kind of the same thing. But in terms of wealth, I would say, it was probably the Genovese family. Is that how you judge that through wealth and power? Influence, wealth, how many guys they have. I asked my boss at a time, his name was Carmine Percego, one of my boss for quite some time. I said, how come you don't bring more guys into the family? Why are we the smallest family? And he said, well, I believe in quality rather than quantity. I want quality guys. I don't think that was really the case. I don't know why. But look, we all had power. We all had influence in our own way. So pretty well worked out. What was it like getting power? Because I know people who do bad here and they get a sense of power, but then it's like they get above their station because mentally they feel as if they're stronger than what they really are. But eventually they eventually break down because I have seen the strongest men become the weakest and the weakest become the strongest. Things can happen in an instant, trauma, whether it's PTSD. Was there any moments that in your own life where you thought this is too much, even at a young age? You know, it's individual of the way people handle it. I saw some people of power automatically immediately went to their heads. They started acting differently, walking differently, talking differently because they got that badge now. They're made guys, you know. I've seen just handle it, you know. Hey, this is a... I still realize I'm human. You know, I got more authority now and it all depends individually how you handle it. I believe I handled it okay. It never really went to my head and it's hard, James, because now people are catering to you, you know. You walk into a room, everybody pays attention. So you got to really try to maintain a balance and it's not easy at times. How do you maintain that balance? Because so many people who you see in the films reading the books, they get took out anyway. So they're never as powerful as they make out. But how do you maintain a balance of trying to be strong but trying to be responsible and kind of... I don't know how it works, but to try and find the balance of prolonging your life past 30, 40 years old. You know, it's an individual characteristic of you. I saw the guys that threw their chest out the most and wanted to be the tough guys. They were the first to go. They never lasted in that life. You know, the guys that tried to maintain balance in their head. You know, my father taught me something once that I never forgot. And he taught me a lot of good things and he really taught me how to navigate that life because he was the master as far as I was concerned. But he always told me, he said, Michael, always be kind and respectful to the little people. Now he didn't mean that to be offensive. He just, that was his way of saying it. You know, the guy that takes your coat, you know, he said treat them right because they're the people that make you strong. So always realize, you know, you don't walk in and expect everybody to cater to you. You'd be courteous to everybody, respectful to everybody. You get more respect in return. And you know, that's how I tried to deal with my life. I deal with it the same way now. And it worked for me back then. Yeah, how did you become one of the biggest money makers involved in a mafia? James, I was fortunate. I had a head for business. I was very aggressive. And I knew how to use the life to benefit me in business. And I come up with some different things. You know, I was kind of entrepreneurial at the time. And I did things that they hadn't done before. And I understood that there was, if you use that life properly, it could work to your benefit. And you know, I just got fortunate, you know. So do you think being in med school as well, being surrounded by intelligent people, people who's reading books, not involved in that life, do you think that helped you in the life of crime? Being kind of two steps ahead? I think so because it enabled me to speak to guys in a board room. You know, I knew how to carry myself properly. I wasn't a dem-dies and those kind of guy. You know, I presented myself the right way because I had an education. So I was able to deal with legitimate people where they weren't afraid of me. I could talk and have a conversation. We could do a business deal with some guys as they walk in as street guys right off the bat. They put people off because of the way they talked, the way they carried themselves, handled themselves. So I think I had an advantage. You know, the education and my upbringing helped me in that regard. You were bringing in two million pounds per week to the family you were working for. Do you think if you weren't making as much money for them, you'd have been killed? I would have been killed. You know, there's two categories of guys in that life. There's the earners, which we call the racketeers. And then there's the gangsters. That's who they are. You know, you got street stuff to handle. You give it to them. They're the gangsters. But the racketeers are the guys that bring in the money. You know, any organization without money, there's nothing there. Money makes the power. In our family, the Columbos, we had 115 made guys. Out of 115, maybe 20 of us were real earners. We were bringing in money. The rest of the guys, you know, who had a no-show job, who was trying to work a living, who had a gambling problem. So you're really supporting the family with, you know, the minimal amount of guys. So I was in that category. You know, I was a money maker type of guy. So what I've gotten killed, I wouldn't have had the status that I had. They made me a captain in 1980. They appointed me as a captain because I was bringing in a lot of money. I was taking care of a lot of guys. So it helped me rise in the family. Were you not becoming too powerful, though, that they thought you were going to start your own family? There was an article in the newspaper at one point. I don't even... I don't remember the whole article, but it said that I was becoming strong enough to break away from the Columbos and start my whole family. There was no truth to it whatsoever. It was a fantasy article. But it got into the heads of some people and it was like $8, $9, $10 million a week. I had my own jet plane, my own helicopter. I had 300 guys under me. I had the Russian mob guys from Brighton Beach that were my partners. So it gets into people's heads like, hey, my father was a powerful guy. He was coming out of prison. Are they going to try to make a move? Because that's what happens in that life. So, yeah, it started to get people a little bit concerned and there was no reason for it. But it happened and I had an incident one night where they tried to make me understand where the boss of this family, not you, and I got the message and I understood, but there was no reason for it. Does that make you feel uneasy? It did. It made me feel like I'm bringing in all this money and you're challenging me on it. You know what I mean? Why is that happening? But again, you get to understand the ins and outs of that life. It's a natural thing. How much greed is involved? How much? Greed. Greed? Yeah, with people always wanting more, always taking and organizing businesses. A part of it is greed. It's ego-driven, narcissistic, also behaviour. But was there ever a cut-off point where anybody ever says, okay, I'm going to make me 5 million, 10 million, and then I'm out? Obviously, you couldn't get out if you've made an oath, but was there ever, in your mind, because you'd seen so much death like you say, I'm just going to escape and try and leave without telling anyone? Well, you know, greed is an individual thing. It's one of your goals. It's an individual thing. It's one of your characteristics. If you have it, you have it. I was telling my guy, Kaz, I said, Kaz, you know, when I had my crew, I would tell them straight out, if you want to get made, you want to become a guy in his life, a soldier, don't stay with me because I'm not going to make you. I'm not going to present you. I'm not going to propose you, because if I propose you and you get made, you're not a person at that point. You don't answer to me. I said, so I'm not going to do that. But if you want to make a lot of money, stay here, because with me you're going to make money. Well, they all stayed because they wanted to make money. You know, I always believed in sharing the wealth because money in that life brings loyalty. It brings you a lot of stuff, at least for that time. So, you know, but greed is an individual thing. I saw a lot of greedy guys and people resented that in that life. That's the boss of the Gambino family. He was known as a greedy guy and he ended up getting killed because people within his own family didn't like him. So, look, that life is very treacherous, James. Very treacherous. You've got to cover all bases. You've got to know what's happening around you all the time, especially if you're a big earner. People are watching you all the time. There's a lot of jealousy. It's natural. So, you've got to really play your cards the right way. I always say this, if you're a made guy in that life and you die of old age and you die free, you've really accomplished something because it's tough to navigate. Did anyone older than you who'd been in that life kind of got out of that life ever give you advice to say get out when you can, or was it just not brainwashing, but you conditioned into that life to think it's normal. So, the people who joined the army to go and fight for wars, I don't believe in wars personally, but wars do happen. Was there anyone ever to say to leave? No. Nobody ever told me that. I don't know if anybody that ever walked away from that life publicly, like I did. Guys left the life, but they cooperated with the government. They went into the witness protection program, things like that, but I don't know anybody that's walked away like I have. So, nobody advised me to do it. It's dangerous to advise you to do that because you're telling somebody to break their oath. So, no, I honestly don't know anybody. And, you know, I want to tell you this too. When I was making all this money, guys would say to me, I thought for myself, should I stop now? I got enough money, should I stop? But then I said to myself, I was a major target of law enforcement. You get as much time for a million dollars as you do for a billion dollars. So, I'm already crossed that line and may as well keep making money. That's how I thought of it. That is a crazy way of thinking. There's never any glory to it. Well, you're sitting here and you're doing your thing, which is an amazing thing to see that that's one in a million. Possibly, to be sitting here and still doing what you're doing, it shows what can be done as well. And that goes for anybody watching that's involved in a life of crime. Maybe not as, the Matthews is a well-run organization, probably one of the biggest on the planet. Very well-run, they're big bothers, but there's no organization. It's just weird the mentality of thinking, but understand people are a product of their environment and people need to understand that. Not every human being is bad because you do bad things. It's just, we do make bad choices because of the circumstances or maybe the pressures of life. Put us in that we think making a quick buck will cure all the answers, but does it become an addiction as well? Having that power, having the money, does that become an addiction? Yeah, it does. I mean, it's intoxicating. No doubt about it. Look, I have my own jet plane. I had a helicopter. I had houses in three different states. I had 300 guys under me ready to do anything I tell them to do. You walk into a club. They want to give you a ringside table. I mean, people cater to you, so it's intoxicating, especially when you're young. This all happened to me when I was young. I mean, I was feeling strong about it. I didn't throw my weight around in that way, but I felt strong internally. You know, so how do you walk away from that? Plus, I took an oath. You know, you got to understand this. The Mafia caused an oyster in America. It prospered for well over 100 years under some very difficult conditions. But why? Because we had structure. We had discipline. We had authority. We had consequences for breaking our oath. So we were very organized in that regard, very structured. And that's why we lasted more than most of these, you know, and we didn't make our life based upon drugs. We didn't make it on drugs, you know, so you got to give the organization credit in that regard because of the, like I said, the structure, the discipline, the consequences for making a mistake. It kept people in line. And, you know, I don't know if you know this, but in America, at one point in time, we controlled a major part of the country. I mean, we had access to the White House. You know, we had politicians working for us. We had all the unions. You control the unions in America. You control the country. Teamsters Union was controlled by us. We had over 2 million members. You know what that means? That means we have bank accounts from the trust funds. We had 2 million votes for any politician that wanted to do our bidding. 2 million votes, that's where politicians live by, votes. So we controlled the country to a great degree at one point in time. Yeah, because Lucky Luciano, was he not, was it Maya Lansky he was working with? Lansky and Luciano were very close. They're not doing 50 years, but they made a deal with him because they controlled the docks and they wanted... Exactly. Maya Lansky negotiated with Luciano out of prison because we controlled the docks during World War II and they needed access to the docks. And so we gave it to them. We also, when I say we, Luciano at that time, he also helped the allies in Italy during the war. He helped them tremendously. So he bought his way out of prison by helping the United States. But remember, they came to him. Now, how do you figure the United States was a mob guy because he had that much power? When they wanted to assassinate Fidel Castro, they came to us to pull it off. The CIA actually came to the mafia to help them kill Castro and Cuba at that time. So, I mean, we had a lot of power. And I'll tell you this too. People will say, oh, come on, Michael, this conspiracy theory. I'm telling you right now that it was a mob hit on John F. Kennedy. No doubt. I know this. I mean, I wasn't involved at that point in time, but my father and everybody I spoke to, you know, told me the whole story what happened. So, and I believe that the United States government never wants people to know that. That's why all of these classified documents that they have will probably never be released because if they tell the truth, they're going to tell that the mob was involved. And the government don't want the world to know that the mob was able to get to a sitting president. I mean, think about that. How could the mob take out a president? Well, they did. There's such a thing of becoming too powerful, too much money, too many men working under you where the police just take you out. No doubt. I mean, listen, in that life, you know, people outside of that life are afraid of power in that life. No doubt. Did they ever take anybody out? I don't think so. I never heard that. But, you know, power is a funny thing. If you don't handle it right and you're not distributed the right way, it's a problem. There's a lot of snitches now, I think. They live in a very weakened generation. There's no loyalty, there's no love, there's no trust. But a lot of people now here in the UK because of the intelligence is so good by the police. The people who stay out of prison in my opinion, majority are informers. Would you ever know if any of the mob bosses were working with the police at any point to keep them out of prison? To keep the mob bosses out of prison? Yeah. You know, I think the real influence, I mean, back in the days of Al Capone, I mean, the truth of the matter is Capone controlled a lot of the politicians and a lot of the police. It was very corrupt back then. And that continued for quite some time. I mean, look, I had politicians that would do things for me. They would do things for my company, the gas company, so I could steal the tax. You couldn't get the license, it was hard. But I had political help to get them. I had 18 licenses. I was paying politicians to get them for me. You know, so money talks a lot of times with everybody. You know, that's the thing. But I don't think, you know, I don't think the government ever took any mob guys out, not that I know of anyway. How many levels of the top ones are dons at the boss? How many other levels under them are there? Well, you got the boss and you got the under boss. It was the second in command. You got a consulieri, which is a real, you know, a real position. And he's supposed to be the advisor to the boss and the intermediary between the men and the boss. The men got an issue. They go to the consulieri. He tries to straighten it out with the boss. And then you got the soldier. And then you got the captains, excuse me, Capito James. That's a point stem. And then he gives them soldiers to take care of. So a couple regime, which is what I was, is kind of a street boss. You can't be a soldier and go directly to the boss. That's a problem. You got to go to your couple first and then he goes to the boss for anything. So, and that's it. And those are the levels of made guys. And then you have associates, which they work with you, they understand, but they don't have the same privilege as a made guy. What privileges does that give you? Because everybody who seems to get made end up dead anyway. Does it give you any privileges? Well, you get privileges within that life. See, to every made guy, anybody that's not made, they're a sucker. You could be the president of the United States. You're not made. You didn't take that oath. You're a sucker. You could be the pope. You're a sucker. Doesn't matter. So all the secrets of that life stay within the made guys. And when I had a meeting with made guys, my associates couldn't come in the room. We couldn't share information with them. You know, they don't have that privilege. So it was different. How many big court cases have you walked away from me? Calls at four? Well, I was indicted seven times. I was, I think I said a record back there, seven times. I went to trial five times and I was acquitted or dismissed in every case. I was convicted to me at trial. What would you have got if you got convicted on one? When Rudy Giuliani indicted me, I was the first major mob guy that they indicted under the RICO statute, the racketeering statute. The day of my arraignment when they locked me up and then you go to court and they read you the charges and then you get bail. They gave me a million dollar bail. But Rudy was in the courtroom with me and he told my lawyer and me, he says if I convict Francis on this case that this father's got, I'm going to give him a hundred years. So if I lose that case, I was acquitted, I'd still be in jail. What would you think, then, if you're going to get a hundred? Well, you know, I was young. You're not shutting yourself. Well, you know what I said to him? You know what I said to him? Because I had, I've been to trial four times already and I beat him every time. So I stood toe-to-toe with him and I said, Rudy, bring it on. I beat you guys four times already. It was a dumb thing to do, you know, to say it like that. But I was just, I was, you know, I didn't like law enforcement back then. They were my enemies. So I was just ready to fight, you know. But I'm going to tell you this, James, I don't kill what anybody tells you. I don't care how tough you are, whatever you are. You could be Gotti, Capone, it don't matter. When you're standing in front of that jury and they're reading that verdict, it's tense. There's only one word you want to hear. You know what the word is? Not, not. That's it. You don't want to hear anything other than not. And when you hear not, you know you're okay. Does that ever, because so many, these are like attempts out in your life because if you're doing a hundred years, you may as well just be dead. Yeah. Do you ever think in that quote, though, what the fuck has my life become? I'm going to tell you this, I did, because, you know, I went to prison, I took a plea afterwards, but I did exactly 29 months in seven days in solitary confinement. I was in the hole, 24, 7, 6 by 8 cell. And if I, if I thought that was it forever, that there was no chance of getting out, put me to sleep. There's no life. You got four walls, you know, they take you out once or twice a week to get a shower, your handcuffed, you're in there. There's no life. You get the worst food. You're around nobody that you love. Put me to sleep. I'd rather go to sleep and never wake up again. Did you see a lot of yourself and your dad at that moment? My dad and I were different, you know. We had a different mentality in a lot of ways, but, you know, I don't know. I mean, I had a meeting in prison with him one time. When he said I may as well die in here, I think it got to him at some point in time. But, you know, I just, I just can't see living like that. You know, it's more, it might be the coward's way out, hey, put me to sleep, execute me, do whatever you got to do. But, you know, I was a young guy when I was in the hole. I was in my 30s. I got to live maybe another 20, 30, 40 years like this. I'd rather die. How did you survive being in solitary confinement? For me, it was all about my faith and my family. I wanted to get home to my family, and it was, you know, I'm a Christian, you know, it was my faith that sustained me during that time, because I believed that, you know, that I was going to get out. Even though they told me I was going to die in jail, I believed that I was going to get out. And it was my belief in God that got me through it. If you don't, if you don't have something to believe in, there's no way you handle that. No way. What was like, you know, your dad would have known everyone, because he would have been involved in the mafia, probably near enough to start all of it, like guys like Bugsy Seagal, like how the tea opened his first casino in Vegas. Was it, how it started that? How much truth to that? You know, there were casinos in Vegas before Bugsy Seagal, small-time casinos. He was definitely a power in getting, you know, that major casino opened the first one. What happened when Bugsy got killed? That's when Vegas became in the spotlight. You know, so he made Vegas just by getting killed. Really, because that's when it was all over the news in Vegas, and you know, they had the casino. So you got to give him the credit for that, even though I think he wouldn't have wanted it that way. But yeah. For me personally, I believe a private life's a happy life. But do you think films like The Godfather Goodfellas glorified that life? And people then thought it was cool and wanted to be that instead of not realizing the destruction that actually causes that to everyone, because I always say this, everything has a ripple effect. You've been in prison, not just effects. Possibly your father, your kids, their friends, everything just ripples through life. But how much do you think that plays a massive effect on the mafia then being glorified? The movies do that. The media does that. I mean, look, Godfather, everybody looked up to people in that life because of the Godfather. The way Michael Corleone, Vito Corleone, the way they handled themselves, so people had a very high opinion of the mob because of that movie, The Godfather. No doubt, Godfather I and II. Movies like Goodfellas and Donnie Brasco, they present a little bit different side, but you know what it is? When people see money and power, it's intoxicating. And they want to be like that person. I'll give you an example. I speak to a lot of young kids, gang bankers. I did, yeah, when we were here a couple of days ago. And they'll tell me, Michael, you had everything, you had the money, you had the power. They tell me about the movie Goodfellas. They drove all the nice cars. They had everybody respected them. I said, okay, but did you watch the end of the movie? Who got killed? Who went to jail? Whose life was destroyed? They don't see that. They don't pay attention to that. They only see the first part of the movie. I always say this, James, the mob life, the gang life, they're evil lifestyles. I don't glorify them. They're evil. I always say that. I don't call the guys evil. I was one of them. Some of them were good guys, trust me. They had good hearts, maybe misguided like I was, but they were good guys. But the life is evil because I don't know any family of any member of that life that hasn't been destroyed. And any lifestyle that does that to a family is an evil life. The kids don't get it. People don't get it. They don't see that side of it. Yeah, they're only looking for the glory. And if you come from a broken home, if you've been abused when you're a kid, if you've not got a mum or dad to have that kind of structure in your life, then you'll search for being in a gang because it feels like a family environment there. Yes. Because every man I've interviewed, people always ask me the question, do you ever get scared interviewing the people you're interviewing? I say no. Reason being is because what I see is vulnerability. Any man who holds a gun or a knife for me is fragile because they're so broken. They hold a gun or a knife to try and protect himself from not being hurt anymore. And that's what I see. I see goodness in everyone. Will I try? Even though I know there's some bad fuckers on this planet, we get that. But where is that stem from? Where is it started from? Everybody, you do have choices in life, but the brain is such a pivotal tool where you can condition it to be whoever you want to be. I believe you can change the way you think and feel. In life, there's so many people in prison who went in bad and came out good that are doing so much good. There's so many people who were good, but some circumstance in their life, maybe losing a kid or losing a loved one, can trigger them to then become alcoholics, junkies or whatever. We just don't know in life what is around the corner, but for me personally, everybody can make change and that's the beautiful thing for it. Do you ever feel blessed, Michael, that how far you've actually come? Do I ever? Feel blessed? Oh, let me tell you something, James. I never, never take anything for granted with my life. I'm the most blessed guy on the planet because I should either be dead or in prison for the rest of my life. Like all of my former associates, dead or in prison, that's it. And I'm totally blessed. Every day I realize that to me it's a gift and I'm here. I'm alive and I'm free. So I don't ever take that for granted. There's no question about it. To me, God has done amazing with my life. And I'm 70 years. I'm going to be 71 in two weeks. So I got it. I'm on bonus time. Let me tell you. You look great though. And your dad looked great as well. What is that? Have you any special remedies? Well, you know, my dad's obviously the DNA is good and he lived to 103. And he looked like he was maybe 80 when he passed. You know, I'll tell you what the secret is. For everybody that's listening, here's the secret. Don't smoke. Don't drink to excess. Don't take drugs. And don't get overweight. You get overweight and you buy it, you know, back and forth. You're trying to lose weight, gain weight. Obesity is terrible. So don't get overweight and just get some sleep, you know, and try to do the right thing and you'll last. That's how I look at it now. You know, it's worked for me. Let's put it that way. How did you sleep in that life? Did you sleep much? Or were you always on edge? I wasn't on edge, but I never required a lot of sleep. I was a guy. My routine was I get up bright and early, 5, 36 o'clock in the morning. I have my breakfast guys pick me up. I go out and do my thing for the day. I come home for dinner, spend time with my family and then 10, 11 o'clock. I'm out again until 2, 3 in the morning. That was our lifestyle back then. So I never required a lot of sleep for some reason. Was there a lot? Why was drugs so much the mafia doesn't ever want to deal with or even know the money that could be made from it? You know, in our family, during my time in that life, drugs were outlawed. I was told the night I got made, I said, Mike, you deal with drugs, you die. That's it. No drugs. I hated anything to do with drugs because I had it in my family. My sister died of an overdose. My brother was a drug addict 25 years. When he put us through, I can't even begin to tell you. So I hated anything to do with drugs. And my father hated drugs. He always told me, don't ever get involved in drugs. He hated it. Some guys were doing it, but I always tell people this. And I get people say, oh, Michael, you know, it's not true. We were not the major drug dealers. We're not. You know, we weren't the Mexicans or the Colombians or guys that were dealing drugs. Now, the Sicilians, the mafia in Italy, yes, they were big heroin dealers. Not us. Some guys were doing it, but not us. Why? I think people felt, number one, it would bring too much heat from law enforcement. I think when you see that scene in The Godfather, where he said, you know, they don't care if we gamble at this and that, but drugs, that's a different thing. And quite honestly, a lot of us had a conscience. We don't want to put needles in young people's arms. And we talked about that. We're not looking to destroy young kids. And who's taking this garbage? Young kids and the teenagers, you know, they're the ones you go after. So we just didn't want to do it. How hard does it make it to see loved ones struggling with drug addiction? James, it's how hard is it for me to see somebody? I hate it. I mean, my sister, you know, I would say this. I did more damage to people in that life because of my sister's drug addiction because I would go, I couldn't find her. I'd go to Queens and she'd be in some seedy bar with these guys that were all drug addicts. It drove me crazy. So we did a lot of damage, you know, to try to protect her. My brother, the same thing. It's a horrible thing. Drugs are a horrible, horrible thing. It's a terrible addiction. Yeah, I've lost many family members and friends to drugs, drink, gambling addiction, addiction, suicide, like sometimes, but the drinking of drugs is for me, it's always an escape, Michael, because of other people's battling internally and it's sad because we see the person, the drug addict, homeless and people judge, but they don't know the back story of it. There's so many veterans on the street fought for their country and nobody fights for them here and I do so much homeless work back in Glasgow and for me to try to just give that. I was always in life searching for something. I've been a drug addict, I've been a gambling addict. I've been many things in life. I've changed it all. I'm four years clean. I'm living a life. I'm becoming successful and I'm staying on the path, but it is a struggle every day. So now I used to chase the material stuff back in the day to try and fulfill a void, even though I never found that sense of completion. But now for me, the gift in life is given. As soon as you help someone, truly help someone from a clean soul, there's no better feeling than that. I totally agree with you. When they say there's more joy out of giving than receiving, I have found that that's what motivates me. I'll go speak to young kids or I'll speak in a crowd. They want to hear the mob stuff, because there's interest in that, but they're more interested in the transformation because everybody's struggling with something in their life. And when they see that you can get out of a bad situation, it's really inspiring to people and it feels good that you're able to share that with somebody and it has a positive impact on them. That's what keeps me going and motivates me, no doubt. But I agree with you. Look, when people go through a bad situation and they're not mentally strong, and that's not a knock on them, it's a tough life. They'll take drugs to forget what they're going through. They'll drink to forget what they're going through. They'll do something to distract them from the pain. I get it. I really do. I understand it. That's why you don't condemn them all. You understand it. But, you know, look, I want to tell you this. One of the greatest tragedies in America, in my opinion, is not taking care of our veterans. These people went to war. They fought for their country, for our freedom, and they come home and they can't get the good medical help that they need. They got PTSD. They can't get good medical help. They can't get good services. They should be our number one priority, in my view. Our number one priority. And we don't take care of them the right way. And it's a shame, because we could. They're a wealthy nation. They could. But look, it's a horrible thing. I don't have all the answers in life, but I wish there was some way. I will tell you this, for people that are listening, the biggest problem that we have in America, and I think it's probably across the world, is the breakup of the family. That's it. The breakup of the family. These kids growing up in fatherless homes with young moms that are 15, 16, 17 years old, they can't even take care of themselves. These kids, what chance do they have? Think about it. They're thrown into a world where they don't have good guidance, good counseling. They got more distractions on their fingertips with these cell phones than we ever had as kids growing up. The breakup of the family is the cause of the destruction that we see going on with these generations. That's it. And nobody can tell me different. I believe that, because it's a fact. We're living in a society now where people are consumed by what they have in their hand, and looking at mobile phones, watching TV, they're forgetting to live, and that should be out and making sure connecting with people. Like you say, we're all human beings. We all breathe the same air. We all stay on the same roof. The world is divided reasonably. It's easier to control, divide and conquer. Yes. For me, but we're all human. If you actually speak to an individual, and I actually just spent 5, 10 minutes with them, I don't know, I've only documented where I slept on the street for seven days. It was to give people an understanding of what it was actually like. And the one thing, there's so much food, there's so much health, I was getting clothing and I was getting so much. But the one thing that was missing for me was when I asked, but as soon as someone gave me 5 minutes at a time, then it made you feel good as if someone cared. That was the main ingredient for me. Showing that you care, reaching out to someone, are you okay? Because I get everyone's caught on their own bullshit. Everybody's got their own struggles, money struggles, mental struggles, I get it, but when you actually just speak about it, then the kind of kills, whatever, you're suppressing. And that's the hard thing. It's a beautiful mess, but it's all down to you how you want to live it. And that's what I'm trying to get out of. I believe I'm still young, I'm still learning. I can still create change, but first of all I had to change me and not feel anybody, because I didn't want to, because I've been there, but I felt no one cared. So I had to, that no one was coming to save me. I had to save myself. I had to rewire the brain and understand what you've understand. The main thing for me was taking responsibility. And that was a fucking micro. That was a bastard. Because everybody else was to blame, ex-girlfriend, my mum, my dad, sister, fuck everybody else. It was there to blame. But then you actually take responsibility and that's when you can create change. And that's the beautiful thing about it. I'm not going to ask silly questions, because I know people say, did you kill anyone missing that, but did you ever see anyone get killed? Unfortunately I did James, yeah. I saw people die for the wrong reasons. It weighs on your mind. It weighs heavy. I'm going to be honest with you. Sometimes, it's when I'm sleeping, I'll be in a battle with somebody. I don't realize it, but my wife will tell me, hey, you don't have to wake me up at times. I think that's when it comes out in me. When the demons come out, so to speak, because you don't have to worry about it. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to worry about it, because it's hard to erase things from your mind. It really is. In my 20 years in a life, I've seen a lot of stuff that was just not good. How do you deal with that now? You know, my wife says I have a gift that I know how to compartmentalize things. I think it's just survival. How do you exist in the world if you're always letting bad things pull you back and pull you back and a lot has to do with my faith. A lot of people say, Michael, are you out there doing the things that you do now, helping kids and trying to be a positive impact on people to make up for what you did in your former life? I said, no, I can't make up for that. What I did, I did. What I saw, I saw. What's done is done. I can only do better at this point and as a Christian believer, we believe that if we sincerely confess our sins and clear about it and we accept Jesus as our Savior that our sins are forgiven and now we move forward. And that's how I deal with it. My faith has, if I didn't believe that, I don't know how I would deal with it, quite honestly. Do you believe in karma, Michael? You know, I don't I don't know if I believe in the word karma, but I believe you reap what you sow. And that's what the Bible tells us, you reap what you sow. If you're doing bad or you like to people, it's going to come back and get you. So for me, it's biblical. It's what God tells us. If you want to continue on that path, don't expect good things to happen to you in return. So I guess in a way you can call it karma. Is that why you're trying to do good now? You know, James, how do I say this without sounding wrong? You know, look, when I was in that life, I didn't get in that life to hurt people. But when that situation arose and I was ordered to do something that I didn't want to do, if I was going to stay in that life and stay alive, I would kind of step out of myself. This isn't me. And I'd handle my business and I'd come back to who I am, meaning that I never had a heart that wanted to hurt people. That wasn't who I am. It's not who I am today. So, you know, I think that's a blessing that I realize that I did things when I did them because I was responsible to do it, but I didn't want to do it. I didn't feel good about it. Did you ever think about going back and finishing med school? No. No. You know, James, listen, I don't want to take the credit even for going to medical school. My mother and my father wanted me to be a doctor more than I wanted to be a doctor. I was doing it for them. I'd do anything to please my dad. And he really wanted it. I had an interest in it. I wanted to be a pediatrician because I enjoyed working with kids even back then. You know, when my dad went to prison, I had younger brothers and sisters. I became their father. I took care of them. I was like more of a father than my dad was because he was away. So, I always had a heart for kids and I said I'll be a pediatrician. But was my heart really in it? Was this a passion? Because if it was, I would have been a doctor today. But it was more important for me to help my dad. So, you know, I could not go back to school. I don't have the patience for it. And what was it like trying to get out of that life? Very hard. Very hard because I became very much a product of that life. And that oath meant a lot to me. So, when I was breaking, when I was walking away, it was gut-wrenching because I said I'm disappointing my father. I'm letting people down. It was so hard. I felt like I was a betrayer. So, but I fell in love with this young woman who is now my wife of 37 years. And the other challenge was she's a young girl, I'm medley in love with her. How can I marry her and then probably go away and get killed? I'm going to destroy her life. So, what am I going to do? I had to make a choice. I was a diss life because I can't do this to her. I can't marry her and make her a part of this whole thing that I'm involved in. So, I would go to sleep at night. I'm getting out of life. I wake up. I'm back in the life. And even when I walked away for years, I felt hard. I felt horrible about it. But then, you know, for me, my faith won out. My family won out. Do you then pretty young not just yourself, but your wife and danger when you come out? No. Because one code that we had that was very strict is that we would never hurt anybody's family. And I believed that. And people said, well, Michael, this guy hurt this family. Listen, there's exceptions to every rule. But that guy is dead now. You don't do those things. So, I never worried about my... my danger to my wife and kids. I... This would have been a whole different situation for me. But I never worried about that. And I never had a problem. Did the police ever come forward knowing that you were trying to get out to then become an informant? Oh, yeah. They wrote me very hard. They told me, you know, they came to prison. They said, Mike, you're a dead man anyway. We got word from our informants. It's all over the street. They're going to kill you. Cooperate with us. I didn't do that. I wasn't looking to hurt anybody. I wasn't mad at anybody. I just wanted out of their life. They put a lot of pressure on me. They did their own thing. And look, I talked to the government. But I talked to them realizing that what I'm telling them is not going to put anybody in prison. Because for me, the bottom line is I don't want to send anybody to jail. I can't do wrong. But yeah, I want to talk to you about my life because I want you to understand I'm out. I'm really out to get them to leave me alone because it's a major target. I mean, seven indictments. I was under scrutiny from the minute I was walking into that life because of my father. We had the name. So they never left me alone. I had to get them to understand I'm really out. Well, their thought was the only way to get out is you cooperate with us and we'll protect you. So I said, no, I can't do that. I don't want to put people in prison. My father went to jail for a crime he didn't commit. I'm not going to do that to people. But they didn't take no for an answer. That's why they kept me in lockdown for almost three years. They were trying to break me. You think that saved your life? No doubt saved my life. Not only because of that James and in 91 when I got violated and they put me back in. I had done five years. They put me back in just before that our family was going to war. We're going to war. It was a big war within the combo family and they were trying to pull me back. They said, Michael, we need you. And I had already walked away but they were pulling on me to come back in. And I was so torn. I said, how can I betray my guys? We're going to war. Just when I was making a decision I get violated. They throw me back in jail. I'm in the hole for three years. The war lasted for three years. 13 guys got killed. 63 guys went to jail for a long time. And about I think 2018 I've been in violence and hurt everybody else. So I got saved by going back to jail. I didn't know it at the time, but yes. Everything's about payment. You believed that? Was a part of your thought you were going to go back to trying to help the family because you had so much power? I just felt like I was abandoning my family and my father put some pressure on me back then. I never even told my wife this. Because here's what my father's thinking was. If one of the bosses got killed it would have been a chance for us to take over or get him power. Because my father's thought was he was always telling me, you're going to be the boss one day. I'm on parole. When I get out of jail I can never really do anything. But you'll be the boss and I'll be really to be us in power. There's two of us. That's what he wanted. So when this war came up this was like an opening for that. And I had a tremendous pull-up back then. Tremendous. How hard was it on your dad for you trying to get out of that life? It was tough on him. He didn't want it. He didn't understand it. It hurt him, no doubt. But I told him, I said, look I'm not going to hurt anybody. Don't worry about that. That's not what I'm on. I just want out of life. And when we had private discussions afterwards he understood. He would have never talked to me again. And we got close again after this was all. It's not since it was over before he died. But initially it hurt him. What was the one reason? Why did you maintain? Why did you still be able to stay alive? What was the main ingredient? Well number one, my faith. Because I believe God had a different purpose for me. It's obvious. But one of the horrors of that life James you make a mistake. You walk into a room. They don't walk out again. And unfortunately I witnessed that throughout my life. In that life. And I had that experience one night when they were trying to scare me. They walked me into that room. I thought maybe I was going to get killed. And when I left the life I said okay they're never going to walk me in a room again. They're going to have to come and get me. I moved out to California away from New York. I could have never lasted in New York. I had a whole pattern in life. I was very disciplined. I didn't walk my dog at the same time every morning. Because I knew if they were watching me I knew what they were going to do. I didn't go to the same restaurant every Tuesday night. So if they're watching me they know okay he's here. When he comes out we can get him. I know how they plan things. So I was able to counteract anything that they wanted to do. I was very disciplined about it. Very disciplined. I think I ran with dead or imprisoned. And then when they realized I wasn't hurting anybody the heat came off a little bit. It came off. And I had to be honest with you too James. They knew. I told them I said look just leave me alone. You know if I wanted to cooperate with the government I could destroy a lot of guys. I don't want to do that. So just leave me alone. I'm not going to bother you. Not going to be in your face. Yeah. I think it was the most powerful and the most richest. I think 48 out of the 50 were dead. But you were in that 50. What was that list? It was the 50 most wealthy and powerful mob bosses in America. And they had me on at least. I was the youngest guy on the list. I was number 18 out of the 50 in terms of wealth and power. And it was a huge article in Fortune magazine. They featured six of us. I was one of the six. And I always say the list is silly. Who knows how they make a list like that? But it sold a lot of magazines. But here's the real thing out of that. That was written in 86. All these years later 48 of these guys are dead. There's one that's still alive but he's doing prison time. He's older than me. And then there's me. I'm the only one alive and free. So you know that's an accomplishment. You know you're very intelligent and you're very lucky. I'm very blessed. I don't play. Listen, let me tell you this James. I don't sell my former associates short. They're very capable guys. Things just broke right for me along the way. There's no question. Like I said, God had a different plan for me. But it's not my ingenuity. It's not my bright and none of that. Because they could have got me if they wanted to. Believe me, if they really put the effort into it, they would have. You know, once it's wise, I had some situations where I had to move for a while because I knew there was guys out there that were looking at me. But it just broke right for me, really. How hard is it for your wife when you're going through changes, people trying to kill you, police are trying to get you to work for them? How much pressure actually gets put on your wife? The women that you love, you're going to change your life. You're going to risk your life trying to make it work with the women you love. But how much pressure gets put on your wife when you think she's actually going to leave me here and then she leaves you. What have you changed from? Absolutely. I mean, look, when you really boil this down, it's the wives and children that suffer. You know, a lot of guys, when I was in prison, I would tell them, you know, you're so selfish. Your wife is waiting online two hours for you and you're in here doing the prison time and they're going crazy out there. Because after the guys are broke, the wife's got to get a job. They got to take care of the kids. It's a lot more on the family. What about the story here? What that girl went through, eight years in prison, contract on my life, trying to rebuild my life. Once I got out, I was like a fish out of water in LA. I wasn't accustomed to that lifestyle out there. She went through hell, you know, and she stuck with me. So really, this is all about her. Me, whatever I got, I deserved at that point. You know, I'm lucky I'm even here, but she made a decision to stay with me. And as a result, she went through hell to do it. How did she meet? I met her on a movie set. I was producing a movie in South Florida. She was one of the dancers in a movie. I saw her come out of her pool and that was it. Lightning struck me. I was dumb forever. And now 37 years later, we're married. Ha ha ha ha! That's it. And I feel the same way about her right now. So what do you think of that? That's unbelievable. But again, did she move your life out this time? She did not. She was a... Did you lie? Well, I didn't lie. I just didn't tell her. Ha ha ha ha! It's okay, it's okay sometimes. I just didn't say anything. She was 20 years old. She was from Anaheim, California. She knew anything about them, nothing at all. She thought I was a producer on this set. She started to realize something was different there. But by that time, she was in love with me. It was too late. So what do you think now, Michael, about looking back in your life? You know, I feel very blessed. I mean, you know, look, the life that I was about during my time, it's not the same anymore. You know, the government really in the United States, they took a big toll on the mob life. They took a lot of power away. It's different. It's a different world now. You know, but listen, people say do you have any regrets? Over again, would you do it? Under the same circumstances to help my dad, I would have done it again. But being smarter now, you know, I would absolutely not have done that. You know, it's not a life you should be involved in. But, you know, I just, again, James, I consider myself to be very fortunate, very blessed, very thankful that I'm here, able to speak to you and have my lovely wife here. I mean, it's, what's better than that, right? Love in the dream, brother. What was that, what was joined by like Michael? You know, John was, he was like you see him. He was a charismatic guy, no doubt. He lived his life. This was what it was all about for him. He was going to be a mob guy until he died. Socially, he was a lot of fun. You meet him for a drink. Nice. Business-wise, he was a nightmare. He was a narcissistic guy and he never wanted to lose anything. So you had your hands full if you ever had to sit down and have a deal with him. But I liked him. You know, I liked him, honestly. But again, a lot of people say it was very tough to deal with him. That's true. What about Donny Brasco, the film? Like, a great film, probably one of Al Pacino's best films, I believe. But how true is that film? It was pretty accurate. I mean, it was some things they took dramatic liberty with. I admit Donny Brasco Joe Pistone on the street once with the guy who was with. He told me at my car lot that I had. I had a new car dealership. I didn't do business with him, thank God. But he became a friend of mine now, Joe Pistone. You know, he and I are friends. We've spoken at that. We're going to meet actually at the end of the month. Good guy. I'll say this about Pistone. To be undercover for six years like that and not get made, not get known or anything, you got to give the guy a lot of credit. A lot of credit. There's no question about it. People would get mad at me for saying that because so many guys went to prison. But that was his job. That was his job. But the movie itself was pretty accurate. I knew all of those guys. Lefty was a friend of mine. And it was pretty accurate. Same as Sam and Bill that he admitted 19 murders, is that correct? He admitted to 19 murders. Involvement in 19 murders, yes. What's your honest opinion on him? I like Sammy. I didn't know him well on the street. I met him once. He denies it. But it doesn't matter. We have a different mentality. He and I. Different mentality, different thought process about the life. Now that we're both out of it. But I got to like him. We did some things together. We actually did a production together. And I'll probably do something with him again. I like his family. He's got a wonderful daughter and son. So I like him. Just before we finish off. I know you said he didn't like the police at the start. But what's your opinion on them now? I have many friends in law enforcement now. Many friends. It's amazing for me how God can not only transform a heart but how he transformed my mind. When I finally realized, they're the good guys. We were the bad guys. At least most of the time. And I have many friends in law enforcement. And not because I share information. We're just friends. And I believe that look, in America to have this whole progressive movement to defund the police. Those people are out of their minds. You've got to have police on the street maintaining order. You've got to. Defunding the police is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. So I'm for law enforcement in that regard. I've got a wife. I've got children. When they walk down the street, who's going to protect them? I want the police there to do the right thing. I have a different opinion now. And before your dad passed God rest his soul. How was the relationship then? It was good. We kind of buried the ax on a lot of things. We straightened out a lot of things. We still had my being upset with my dad was his not taking responsibility for what happened to the family. But other than that, I understood him. I loved him. He loved me. And that's how it ended up. And last question, brother. You can throw everything in your life. We don't need that question. But for anybody that is watching me who is maybe struggling in life, what advice would you have for them? You've got to play it straight in life. You've got to do the right thing. You've got to obey the law. Even though we don't like the law sometimes, it's not for us to decide. Here's my advice. In this world, we aren't who we hang out with. We have to surround ourselves with the right people. People that care about us and want to see us do the right thing. And people that are doing the right thing. We have to be accountable to the right things and people in life. When I was on the street, I was accountable to my oath, to my boss, to the street life. As a result, I got in a lot of trouble. I did the wrong thing. Now, I'm accountable to God. I'm accountable to my wife, my children, the people that believe and trust in me. To do the right thing. Because James, look, you can take the boy out of Brooklyn. You can't always take Brooklyn out of the boy. You know, I still have urges to do things. I still can... Look, if I can go back into the gas business and steal the money, I'd do it again. I would have no moral problem with it. But I'm not going to do it because I don't want to get in trouble. I don't want to hurt my family. I don't want to disappoint God. But I need those people in my life. I need that accountability in my life and that's straight. So this is what I tell people. Do the right thing. Surround yourself with the right people and be accountable to the right people and ideals in your life, and you'll be okay. Last question, brother. I know hindsight's a wonderful thing, but if you could change anything from the past, would you? You know, there's things that I would change. You know, personally in my life, mistakes that I made that I wish I never did, stupid mistakes, selfish mistakes. They never happened because they impacted people that I care about and I love. But would I not go into that life again? I would, to help my father. So I don't look at that as changing that. But just my own personal mistakes that I made that I wish never happened because they hurt people and people that I love. So that I would change. We've got the big tour coming up, Michael. What do people expect to see on next tour? Well, I can tell you this. You know, I had a pretty good stature in that life. I met up with everybody from Gotti to Castellano to Fat Tony to Chin. All names people would be familiar with. And I'm going to tell about my relationship with them. They're going to understand, really, you don't have any mafia here in the United Kingdom. They're going to get a good understanding of my form of life. No doubt about it. I'm not going to hold back. We're going to do a Q&A. They can ask me anything that they want about any subject. And I want people to understand that and enjoy it. But I also want to understand that you can transform your life. You can make a difference in life. I was able to get out of a very bad situation. And I understand people that walk in the door, they're going to be struggling with some things. I hope I'm an example to them is how when you're determined and you surround yourself with the right people, you can make changes in your life that are positive. And we're going to be taking this message. We've got a lot of good hosts that are going to be with me. We're going to be taking this message of big dinner shows. We're going to do giveaways. We're going to sign books. We're going to interact with people. We're going to have meetings, greets. It's going to be a lot of fun. The tickets are already selling fast. So we will leave the link in the description for people to get the tickets for this tour. It's going to be a mega tour. And your story is unbelievable from where you've came from to what you're doing now. It's a bit of a love story as well, which everybody loves. But you should be proud for what you've done and what you're achieving, brother. Would you like to finish on up on anything else, Michael? No, I want to tell the ladies, too. This isn't only for guys. My wife is going to be there. We're going to talk about her story. And listen, ladies, don't ever underestimate the impact you can have on some knucklehead guy on the street. Trust me, because, you know, they wrote an article about my wife in Vanity Fair magazine. And they put under her picture, they put the woman that changed the face of organized crime in America. Because they said, you know, I was going to be the boss. I met her. And life changed in that way. So I think the ladies are going to enjoy this also. So we look forward to seeing everybody. And I just want to thank everybody here in London, the United Kingdom, all my hosts for being so gracious to us. And we look forward to coming back in a couple of weeks. And shout out to Kaz for setting up this interview and putting on such a great tour. Yes. Would you like to finish up on anything, brother? No, just that. Thank you, James. You know, it's a pleasure being here with you. And hopefully you're going to come to one of the shows. Yeah, I'm hosting one. Oh, terrific. That's even better. You know what? This was a trial run. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we sit down? I want to teach you a little Brooklyn, people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, hosting tour this show. So many guys are saying, yeah. Terrific. So no doubt. Really a pleasure. That's an absolutely fantastic. God bless you and keep fighting a good fight. Thank you, James. Thank you.