 As-Salaamu Alaykum, Peace be upon you. As-Salaamu Alaykum, peace be upon you, and peace be upon God. Passionate, diversifiable. Thank you for having me here. It's a very interesting topic. I'll get right to it because it's from short on time. The primary text of Islam is called the Qur'an, as you may or may not know. Muslims believe that it was revealed to the final Abrahamic prophet. That's a prophet with an uppercase P. His name was Muhammad. Peace be upon him, who lived in the 6th and 7th centuries. The Qur'an explicitly mentions at Yehud-on-Nasar, the Jews and the Christians, and gives them the epithet, the honorable epithet, of Adam and the Kitab in Arabic, which is translated as the people of the book. So initially theologians would, they would interpret the book as the people of the Bible, the people of the Bible, because the word Bible would be on it for each of these books. And the Bible in Arabic is called the Kitab, the Kitab in Muqattas, or the Holy Book. Now, during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, the Muslim calendar, during the Islamic expansion, Muslims came to realize that there are a lot more religions in the world than just Judaism and Christianity. So theologians at the time, they actually expanded the meaning of the title of the Kitab, the people of the book, to any religion that, that reveres some sort of sacred text. So Hindus, Buddhists, Syro-Astrians, etc. So under the Muslim polity in pre-modern times, the religious traditions, these religious traditions were given protected status, freedom of worship, and autonomous rule of their own religious courts. So was there absolutely equal rights amongst all the religions? No, that was not seen anywhere in the world at the time. But what was happening in the Muslim lands was really unparalleled at that time throughout the rest of the world. And this is why we find historical Christian communities in Muslim majority countries, even today. So were there atrocities committed, were there people that were oppressive? Yes, but this idea of, you know, hordes of Muslim armies coming in and forcing people to convert is pretty much a myth, even the man who wrote the book answered Islam. There was Norman Geisler. He actually says that, but the reason why the North African Christians actually became Muslim so quickly was because of low taxes and stress on brotherhood. That's the power of taxes. But there's a verse in the Quran on the second chapter, verse 256, that says, There's no compulsion in religion. And this is important, it's interesting because Pope Benedict XVI gave a talk at Regensburg University in Germany, September 12th, interesting date, 2006, where he quoted this verse. There's no compulsion in religion. He said, this verse is abrogated. This verse has been canceled by other verses in the Quran which call for fighting the infidel. So abrogation in and of itself is a contentious issue within Quranic sciences. Probably the most authoritative scholar on this issue is an Egyptian scholar named Imam al-Siyyuti. You don't have to remember that, but this is a text that Muslim students will know and study called Adhidr Khan Fiyar in the Kulwun Quran. Anyway, he says in there that there are about 19 or 20 or 21 abrogated verses in the Quran. And this verse is not one of them. I haven't come across a single scholar in my life that has said that this verse, there's no compulsion in religion, has been abrogated. Because it doesn't make sense to abrogate it. You can't force someone to believe in something. I can't force you to believe that the moon is made of cheese. You can say, oh yeah, I believe, I believe, but I can't force that in your heart. So it doesn't make sense that this verse will be abrogated and there's no precedent for that. I don't know what he's quoting here. We'll give you examples of historical Christian communities in most of the majority of countries. The Coptic Christians in Egypt, they've been there for 2,000 years. Their claim is that St. Mark founded their church. The church of the Assyrians in Iraq, which is also called, I think they call it the ancient Assyrian Church of the East or Ancient Apostolic Church of the East. Their claim is that St. Hodeyes founded their church. I've lived in Yemen. I've been to monasteries in Yemen. I've met nuns. I've lived in Yemen. I've been to more of Africa. I've met Christians there. In fact, according to Pew, there are 50 Muslim-majority countries and there are churches in all of them, except for two. And that's Saudi Arabia and Mauritania. Saudi Arabia is sort of weird, ideologically, and so forth. But it's interesting. Saudi Arabia, there are 2 million Christians living in Saudi Arabia. There's no churches in Saudi Arabia. There are 2 million Christians living in Saudi Arabia, mostly foreign workers, which is interesting because per capita, there are more Christians living in Saudi Arabia than there are Muslims living in America. Which is interesting. So there's about 50 million Christians living in the Muslim-majority world in the Middle East. 50 million compared to about 44 million Muslims living in Egypt. There are more Christians in the Middle East than there are Muslims in Europe. Now, if you look at Muslim Spain or North Africa, this is sometimes called the Golden Age of Judaism. This is when Jewish systematic theology and philosophy crystallized. You have these major classical Jewish works being produced in Arabic, rather than in Hebrew, later translated into Hebrew. I'll just give you a few of them. Kitab al-Amanan, it's called Edwinot Vadorot. This is by Saad Yagayo al-Fayyumi, a great scholar in Judaism, Beliefs and Opinions. He wrote this book in Arabic. It's an incredible book. I've thumbed through it a little bit. Very difficult. There's another one. You have Kitab al-Hudjah al-Daleem, called the Khuzari Rabbi Ya'udah al-Daleem. Then you have the two great works by Maimonides, who's called Musa Ibu Maimon al-Qurtubi, in Arabic. His first book is called Kitab al-Farahil, which is in Hebrew. Sefer Hamid's book, the Book of the Commandments, wrote this in Arabic. Then you have the Magnum Opus, very difficult but incredible. Dilad al-Ha'ileem, the guide for the perplexed Mourad al-Hukhim, from Maimonides. So the worldview of the Quran is one in which other religions are acknowledged and accepted, and that these other religions will always be there. So the goal is not global Islamic domination. The goal is peaceful coexistence. The technical legal term for this is Musa Laha. If you want to do research on the Charter, sometimes called the Constitution of Medina, when the Prophet went into Medina, he had a Charter or Constitution Draft. So you can do a Google search on that. However, the Quran does not advocate a type of perennial philosophy where all religions are seen as equally true. According to the Quran, there are correct beliefs and there are incorrect beliefs. There is a way of theologizing or speaking about God as correct in a way of theologizing that is incorrect. Either God incarnates or he doesn't. Either Jesus is God or he's not. He's either the Messiah or he isn't. The Quran goes into these issues. The Quran encourages interfaith dialogue. The Prophet himself engaged with dialogue with some Nestorian Christians who came to Medina and he housed them in his mosque for three days and they engaged in interfaith dialogue. So me coming here today considered what I would say a sunnah, the normative practice of the Prophet himself. There was a Catholic lady who came to the mosque in San Ramon. She was quite elderly. She said, I remember a time when I was not allowed to go into a mosque. Pre-valued too. Very interesting. Now in with this, when the Prophet was living in Medina, he was the head of stake in Medina, the Muslims were living under constant siege in the city where God gave the Prophet and the Muslims permission to physically defend themselves. So the stance in Mecca for 13 years was one of assertive non-violence. And in Medina you have active resistance with specific rules of engagement. So the first verse revealed to the Prophet in the Quran chapter 22 verse 39 that gave him permission to physically defend his city. It sounds like this in Arabic. It says all of these verbs are in the passive. It says permission is given to those who are being fought against to fight because they have been wronged and indeed God is able to give them victory. So active resistance or martial action can only be called for by legitimate state authority, not by vigilantes. And it's used to defend one's community. The very next verse says Who are these people, the Muslims that are given permission to defend themselves? They are those who are expelled from their homes unjustifiably. Except that they said our Lord is Allah, our Lord is the God of Abraham and that also entails a belief. In the Quran and in the Prophet Muhammad. And then the Quran says If God did not check one people against another in other words if God did not reveal a just war theory if God did not reveal rules of engagement when it comes to active resistance the Quran says Then you would have seen many temples, synagogues and churches and mosques destroyed where the name of God is celebrated. So the initial impetus for active resistance is to ensure religious pluralism according to the Quran to ensure sacred spaces of worship and devotion for people of various religious traditions and I preempted questions. This is why ISIS is not Islamic it is a plague upon humanity that the Prophet actually warned us against. There was a group of early Muslims who broke off the guidance of the Prophet they were called the Karajites or the Khawadij in Arabic and today we have Neo-Karajites people who are violent exclusivists people who are terrorists and the Prophet said they come in waves over time and it's our duty to oppose them. So I want you to remember this analogy it's a very effective analogy ISIS is to Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christianity. So the question I get all the time is why don't Muslims like you your leaders or scholars condemn ISIS, right? If you go to a mosque and you start talking about ISIS Muslims start rolling their eyes and you say oh this again why don't you talk about something else? So people ask me this question I always say to them have you ever Googled Muslim leaders condemn ISIS and nobody has ever Googled it. So I'll just mention a few things here the Islamic decided in North America or called what's called ISTA they actually released something called the Code of Honor where they condemn ISIS this is a huge organization in North America there's something called the Covenants Initiative Dr. John Andrew Moro is spearheading that this is something that is known in North America as well where he condemns ISIS and he has signatories to that there's something called the open letter to Baladadi the so-called caliph of ISIS there's 120 signatories by scholars all around the Muslim world these are people who have swayed the hearts and minds of tens of millions of people condemning ISIS the Council on American Islamic Relations which is called CARE it's constantly condemning and repudiating ISIS there's something called the Muslim Council of Great Britain in 2014 that released a statement condemning ISIS there's an incredible book written by an incredible scholar of Damascus his name is Sheikh Mohammed Al Yaqoubi he's a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad it's called Refuting ISIS he wrote it in Arabic and then he himself translated it into English it's very short you can probably find it online quite easily Refuting ISIS an ideological refutation of ISIS you have the Muslim Public Affairs Council in 2014 that released a statement condemning ISIS you have the Amman message where 200 scholars signed a declaration Amman Jordan denouncing ISIS so Fatwa that was issued by Al-Azhar University the oldest university on the planet in 2014 that denounced ISIS the Arab League in 2014 made a statement denouncing ISIS in December of 2015 100,000 Indian scholars and teachers signed a declaration 100,000 denouncing ISIS and then you have Marrakesh and Morocco decoration denouncing ISIS as well so these things are out there but it's strange how they don't make it into the MSN or mainstream media as it were I know I'm out of time so I'm going to stop at this point hopefully I answered the question I'm looking forward to your questions and conversations later thank you for your attention we now open up the floor to questions and we do have a microphone that is going to go around and wherever it is that's the one so you can hand me this mic here okay okay thank you so just raise your hand and you'll get a microphone there's a person right there and try to keep your questions short and on the topic since we only have an hour for this event yes sir oh you need a microphone oh you guys have a mic I'm sorry forget about your questions I'll talk pretty fast I'll talk with Boston talk thank you very much it was very informative talk and I appreciate it as a former Catholic I was condemned to hell if I were to go into a Protestant church let alone a Muslim place like Russia one of the most glorious experiences in my life was in southern India when the Muslims, the Christians and the Hindi all had places of worship and often walked together in the street it was absolutely phenomenal and so my question to you would be would you ever see that that might happen here in the United States where we're all accepted of accepting of others, religions and the ultimate worship I think we have that here I think with respect to that America is at the top of the list as far as acceptance and toleration of religions I'll tell you this outside of elementary school I've never experienced any type of and I used to debate Christians by the way I used to be Muslim telephysicists when I was an undergraduate in high school you know you're young you're not married you've got all this energy so we go on debate and I've had nothing but positive responses and no one's ever pulled me and insulted me you know kids do these types of things because they're kids right you don't know but so and it's interesting I have a friend who lives in Iraq he's actually my wife's teacher's husband my wife's Arabic teacher's husband and I actually when I was in Yemen he was one of my teachers there as well sometimes we talk and he says oh there's an American soldier's here around the corner and you know I'm just afraid they're gonna kill all of us and then he says to me how are you living in America are you constantly threatened every day by people and I said I've never in my life even threatened one time so as far as that goes I think America is actually a model of the rest of the world and actually learning from obviously it's not a perfect society but what society is perfect right yes who has a and then there's a gentleman here that's good to me sorry you raised a very important point about the various Muslim organizations that have come out against ISIS and my question is why haven't majored I mean this is big why aren't they telling people that Muslims have objected I mean that would cover somebody take care of somebody's concerns I don't know how to ask them we have to ask questions like who actually runs the media those are real questions right that I think we're being diverted from so that's what I would do if I were you on research and who actually are these people actually doing things for our best interest what's actually happening who are these people we can find out who the people are we see any differences variations of toleration of other faith traditions between Sunni and Shia that's a good question certainly with the invasion of Iraq it's kind of created a power vacuum in Iraq now Sunni and Shia's been around for 1200 years and in Iraq they've lived in a relative peace the major difference between and somewhat might even call it a negligible difference there's really no difference theologically that's major but the difference is in political theory who should rule the Muslim nation as it were and Shia say it must be a descendant of the Prophet so I think a lot of these things I think there's always been little pockets of disputed violence since middle ages even before that but I think with what's going on in the news and the world those little things are sort of the grand eyes and put forward and presented as sort of this global conflict so there's the I call it the Santa Claus effect you have the true Santa Claus was a fourth century Christian priest who used to give candy to children that he died when he was gone and you have this sort of mythological Santa Claus that flies around at night goes under a chimney that doesn't really exist so a lot of those ideas of your next neighbor could be Al-Qaeda so even if he's a nice guy that's called Taqia they learn these words at 99.9% of the Muslims that they're even heard of but people like Daniel Pipes for example he puts it out there and says the Muslim is nice to you and tells you he doesn't want to kill you he's lying he's sanctioned by God to lie to you that's a potential concealment and he can do that they don't kill you later he's like what I did a PhD in Islam I didn't learn about this I don't know there's something in the deep dark sort of recesses of Sharia that the guy has a gun to your head and says are you Muslim you can say no you sure ain't to save your life but this thing is sort of just a grand die so this is what all Muslims are doing they believe and that's what they're doing in America you know so suddenly she out differences sorry do you have a question that's to bring bring there's a gentleman back here who's had his hand up okay go ahead okay I got I noticed you used the term Muslim majority nation is kind of fully politically correct but it doesn't be used but I don't think we how in our situation if we if we try to if we obscure what really is going on something because in reality the history of Islam has been more just Muslim majority it's been Muslim rule to our Islam and wherever Islam has spread to you know what's got past a certain extent it has sought to establish its own rule whether it be as a kind of separatist who meant more even taking over governments of the countries where it has spread so I wanted to I ran Christianity had a lot of really bad history separating church and state we have more to less of that I want to just I really want to challenge this I think we have to be honest there's still a problem with Islam the lack of separation of mosque and state and really throughout the Middle East what you have they're not Muslim majority nation you have nations under Islamic rule so do you have a question yeah I should ask you know to say I think a lot of people who are probably maybe think this way but are afraid to bring that up yeah so I would agree with you the pre-modern rule you have empires vying for land I also think that a lot of what's happening in Muslim majority countries they have to use what you call a PC term is a direct result of colonialism in that area that Muslims haven't necessarily recovered from and then as far as under Islamic rule you know there's the Quran does not mandate any form of government if you can show me a verse in the Quran that says thou shalt have a theocracy I'll be glad to agree with you that you know there should be no separation of mosque and state but you have Saudi Arabia which is a kingdom you know and the early Muslims when the caliphate became a kingdom they frowned upon that you have you have democratic movements in the Muslim majority countries Syria in the 1940s and 50s Iran the president or the prime minister of Iran actually was a great admirer of Thomas Jefferson but we can't have him right so he was removed from power by the CIA and the Shah was put in and the Shah was quite cruel for Muslims my own family members some of them were tortured by him and so you have I mean Saddam Hussein as another example someone who was shaking hands with our Secretary of Defense in the 1980s the CIA trained Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and so did MI5 so you have American or Western interests in that region turning that region into absolute chaos for different reasons but you know you have different forms of government all over the Middle East let's take one more question thank you you mentioned that Saudi Arabia is kind of an anomaly you said can you kind of lose state a little more about how to frame that yeah that's very interesting point again we talk about sacred law Sharia people here that were Sharia they started wanting to hide Sharia literally means a path to cold water right so Sharia is an indispensable part of Muslims identity it's like saying you can be a Jew but you can't follow Halakha law or you can be a Christian but you can't follow the Bible when most Muslims hear the word Sharia how they think prayer is casting and like can I eat this because there's jealous of it 99% of Muslims are thinking about so Sharia is very fast there isn't one way of doing Sharia right so for example in Afghanistan again a country that's been under attack for 40 years you have places in Afghanistan where women do not leave their homes and they're not allowed to leave their homes and if you say what are people doing that's so oppressive elders of a certain city will say this is the Sharia that's their interpretation of it if you go over to the border over the border to Iran half the physicians and again Iran's not perfect no country's perfect obviously not perfect but half the physicians in Iran are women 70% of Palestinians are women and if you say well why is it like this they say this is Sharia there's a prophet saying the acquisition of knowledge is an obligation upon every type of Muslim right so it's very fast now you have Saudi Arabia they have their own laws they say women can't ride cars okay what? that's their interpretation of the Sharia right and as far as theologically their theological stances are very different than traditional Sunni or even Shiri stances so they're very techfiri they enathematize Muslims that don't believe exactly as they believe and Saudi Arabia is one of our biggest allies by the way which is interesting but anyway not making not getting too much into politics but so theologically there's sort of an outlier you know this idea that if you don't believe exactly as we believe that we don't consider you Muslim traditional Islam traditional Sunni Islam always recognizes defensive opinion and that defensive opinion there's actually a hadith a hadith a statement of the prophet which is not exactly authentic but is quoted a lot by scholars as sort of being true and principle that difference of opinion amongst scholars is a mercy from God it's not sort of a a fitna or a cause of strife amongst people so there is no true there is no true separation of church and state I mean you have Rick Santorum wanting to you know put abortion into law and he's doing that because he's a Catholic now I'm not saying you shouldn't do that what I'm saying is there's a difference between a secular society and secularism the secularism means let's banish religion to the household right not even talk about it at all right but a secular society allows for religious discourse you know I mean you can go up there and say abortion is wrong because the Bible says so he probably won't get that all passed but he can try right and he might convince a few people so religion is on the forefront I mean everyone in the in the in Congress almost everyone believes in God so there really is no true separation of religion and the state are never truly divorced anywhere you go around so I think we also have a problem with that if that's what you want to do create a totally secular society there's no religion then you're in the wrong thank you so much the second speaker today is Rabbi Larry Milter from Congregation Deathemic in Leviton okay that's all can you hear me alright yes good afternoon thank you Dr. Arti for a drill you and really educational talk that I I enjoyed so much what a pleasure and thank you Ruth for the invitation to speak to religion chat that's probably not I consider it a great honor to be here and it's really a pleasure this is actually the second time that Dr. Arti and I have shared the panel presents out to religion chat the topic of what does your faith teach about the acceptance of other religions is particularly provocative no religion thinks that all other religions are equally true although I know that some of you would probably debate even that but I would maintain that every religion believes that there is something true about its own faith which makes it distinctive and unlike other religions if they don't think that they are necessarily better they do nonetheless disagree with some teachings of any other religion nor is this something to be embarrassed about religions are ways of looking at the world ways of making meaning out of the raw stuff of human experience and humans being social creatures we are inclined to make meaning in communities we treasure our particular traditions because in many ways they give cosmic expression to our sense of belonging they ground us so for example we choose the autumn is the time of transition the turning of the year we mark time Jewishly and by doing so not only do we make sense of our personal experience of the passing of time we simultaneously root our lives in the experience of our people when a person dies we mourn Jewishly our rituals give context to the unstable moments in our lives when life is at risk of losing its meaning is that me? when we consider our ethical obligations we do so Jewishly we don't give charity we do it Sadaka justice the action means something unique to Judaism unlike the meaning of charity which comes from Karataz caring we don't do it because we are moved by feelings of caring because we see justice as an obligation even when we don't feel like doing it yes, Judaism is different as are other religions from one another that doesn't make it better our problem with understanding the difference between being different and being better is an epistemological problem that is a problem with the way we think about things our culture is biased toward universalism we think that which is universal is by definition better than that which is particular it's all very content Judaism is an answer to that bias and then it's not the ice cream truck Judaism is really counter cultural we affirm the absolute value of particularism my being Jewish is not secondary to my being human it is the way I am human my particularism and my universalism are not in competition with one another I am Jewish with my whole being and anything less than that would be an ambition that I consider Judaism not to have ultimate significance in my life our culture really does try to repress those particularisms that make life beautiful and makes humanity so interesting you know you don't get harmony unless we are singing different notes we all love ethnic food right? ethnic food is whatever we don't cook at home so just how do Jews navigate that path where we say yay! Jews! and at the same time same with Mr. Rodgers won't you be my neighbor we do not agree with Christians over the divinity of Jesus if we did we would be Christian we do not would it be better if I use that to help my problem? I actually have the same problem in my sanctuary so if you figure it out it is it is we don't agree with Muslims that Muhammad received a unique revelation from God because if we did we would be Muslim not that there aren't other points of difference let's face it Christians don't agree with one another about Christian teachings as we just heard Muslims don't agree with one another about Muslim teachings by the way the Jews have the same problem I could go on about each religion and our point of departure not to mention the overwhelming commonalities in our faiths the key is do we acknowledge the ultimate value of the other's particularity I may not agree with their beliefs but can I see the other's children of God who just like me live lives that are shaped by their unique particular relationship with God what cannot be logically true you think Jesus is God and I don't may nonetheless be spiritually true and here I believe I can assert that Judaism stands precisely for that kind of embrace of the other it is the virtue of spiritual ambiguity of value that very concrete religionists usually do not appreciate to be honest there are Jews who don't get that either but they are certainly a minority in the Jewish world let me give you three examples from our tradition first Amos Amos the prophet is criticizing the people that's after all the job of a prophet he's criticizing them for their arrogance he says to them to me oh Israelites you are just like the Ethiopians true he says you may have a God I brought Israel up from the land of Egypt but also the Philistines from Qaftor and the Arameans from Kyr in other words so there don't think you're so special I God have a relationship with all these peoples your relationship is special to you theirs is special to them so you're not better and by the way don't go picking on them either this is about as far from ethnocentrism and chauvinism as you can get and it is right there in the earliest prophet in the Bible let's leap forward about 900 years and the rabbis are debating who qualifies for eternal life you know who gets a place in what they call the world to come in other words do you have to be one of us to get in and there we find the statement quote the righteous of all peoples have a share in the world to come and that has been the majority view among Jews for the past 2000 years of course there is a minority you can find the minority viewpoint at Shabbat.org finally let's consider the middle ages when Jews were faced with the competing claims of Christianity and Islam now the Torah is explicit in its condemnation of idolatry and the worship of other gods the question then arose in the middle ages about whether Judaism defined these other religions as worshiping other gods at first the question was difficult by monities whom you just heard about actually had no trouble seeing that Islam does not practice idolatry but she wasn't so sure about Christianity but this question is no longer in doubt and it really couldn't be once emancipation came to the Jews and the ghetto walls came down you know when we attend one another's worship services our experience not our doctrine tells us whom we are worshiping a beautiful statement of contemporary Jewish belief can be found in a document entitled Dachru and Met Speak Truth which is a kind of Jewish counterpart to Nostra Etate and the leading sentence of the document is Jews and Christians worship the same god now this hardly exhausts the questions that might legitimately be raised but it is my attempt to place Jewish attitudes in a broader context of the way we think about being religions have Jewish attitudes toward other religions changed over time certainly but Judaism itself and other religions as well have changed we do not see being authentically Jewish when we acknowledge the glory and the wisdom of humanity's many encounters with the divine our particularity is our humanity and that is why each of our paths can be ultimately true so let me stop there I really want to make sure we get to do some questions questions for you we believe that Jesus Christ we believe in Moses we have all the message of God I am now going to give an 86 times name of the Moses invention 29 times Jesus Christ and it is the 12th chapter of Heria in Jesus Monday so honestly you as a Jew what do you think about Jesus Christ in Tanakh what is the most common in Jesus Christ and are you believing even Jesus about the message of God thank you I think it is a fair question that any reasonable person would want to know what do you say about the major religious figure of another faith part of it goes back to what do we mean when we say we believe in when Muslims say they have a belief in Jesus the word does not be in the same thing believe does not be in the same thing as what first between when they say we believe in Jesus of course Jesus is important to Islam Jesus is not important to Judaism that is a hard thing for people to hear but Jesus is no more significant to the practice of Judaism than Buddha that does not mean that there is a negative association nor being historically honest would I have any reason not to believe that Jesus lived but as far as I know he lived and died as a Jew and that is actually all I can say is as far as I know what I can do is respect the teachings that great minds of other faiths have offered us many times we see ourselves in those teachings so when I read the when I read the text in the Gospels that site of Jesus is homilies struck by how much they reflect Pharisee of Judaism they really are the same teachings as the Pharisees that does not mean there are disagreements of course there are disagreements but the style of teaching is the same style the actual language is sometimes identical language to what you could find in rabbinic teachings so we sense oh we're on the same page that does not involve my acknowledgement of Jesus' divinity in any way and so when I hear some of the teachings of Muhammad I listen I go oh I get it I get it this is like this this whole tradition of what we call what we call it our con the comparable obligation of Muslims to give charity we're talking the same thing for that matter we actually have the same debate about gelatin we're talking the same language language has we share a process and obviously there's more in common between all these three particular religions than disagreeing as far as the individuals actually they do not function in any religious way in Judaism which is understandable Judaism is earlier it comes first it's understandable these are not people who play a role within our own tradition of even though they are the seminal figures of other faiths I hope I've done a fair job in answering your question other questions there okay fine thank you I'm a Catholic Christian and as you know what we could read about Jesus is that he is the Messiah and my understanding of Judaism is that of course they don't believe that he is the Messiah what is the current Jewish thinking what Messiah are you still seeking or in consensuality is it spiritual or is it earthly or what is it it's an interesting question too let me go back to the Bible okay the notion of Messiah is an idea that emerges primarily in the period of the Babylonian exile the term in Hebrew refers to somebody chosen by God for a particular purpose the Bible it simply means generally it's a king sometimes it means somebody else who is designated for a special purpose like the high priest in the Bible it has absolutely no supernatural connotation and no no notion of this being something that appears at the end of time or anything of the sort until you get to the book of Daniel which is the last book of the Hebrew Bible to be written and it's written during the Greek period but anything before Daniel Messiah simply means a leader the one God picked fact doesn't even have to be a Jew Cyrus is called Messiah God picked him to free the Jews that was his primary concern obviously the Jews were a blip on the radar as far as he's concerned but for the Jews he was everything oh my gosh the Messiah has come why they don't mean anything supernatural just thank God you picked him because now we're free but in the in the exilic period the prophets developed a notion that didn't previously exist they lost their country they lost the kingdom the Davidic minority was over and they said someday God will bring us home someday God will let us go home and we'll have our country back and what's the symbol of a country your own king instead of being ruled by a foreign king then a Messiah a ruler who is authorized really a righteous ruler a descendant of David will be our ruler again did they imagine this would happen centuries later the immediate future and it did more or less well they got to go home because the Babylonian exile only lasted approximately 50 years they get to go home again they don't get their monarchy back so there is no Messiah nobody gets the descendants of David do not get re-appointed to the throne and that's the end of the monarchy as far as we're concerned no Messiah and they didn't start saying centuries from now that was never a Jewish concept nor did they have a notion of the Messiah being a supernatural figure and least of all a relative of God any more than the rest of us which we all are well this is the major departure of Christianity of course and there we part company over that idea and so that's basically I think you know what do we think now for very long time Jews have basically been non unattached to the notion of a personal Messiah it exists in symbolic language in our prayers symbolically it's there except for the reform movement which is the largest movement in the United States where we don't even have that language you take even that personal Messiah language out of our prayer book but what we do retain is the core biblical concept of some day things will heal some day things will be right they're broken now but we believe in the coming time when things will be put back together during the Babylonian exile to leave and that's what we believe today some day they can happen soon the world can be fixed so a good term for that is the messianic age certainly we don't want to be ruled by a king we'll be on that and we don't want to go back to that any more than we want to go back to sacrifices Judaism is an evolving faith it's not frozen in time and where we are right now is it's still messianic we are a messianic faith but not in the form of a personal Messiah