 Welcome everybody to another episode of the non-profit show. We're super excited today because we have our Balvivant World Traveler, Mui Koaja, with us. He's one of the expert trainers with Fundraising Academy and he comes to us today from Cor de la Bastaine. And you even say that correctly. Just got to say two points for that. Well, Mui, when last we were chatting with you and reviewing the questions that have come in, you were coming to us from Jordan. It was during Ramadan. Bless your heart, you just ended. You know, you're fast as you are observant. And then we had no time to like get you on. You don't get you a break really in between because we do go live at the same time as sunset, where you were at that point in time. And so for me, that was a really powerful thing to know that you you know, you you lived your life of faith and yet you lived your life of mission at the same time. So it was a it was a cool thing for me. So I appreciate you being on during that time. I really, really do. Mui is one of the people that you can meet and learn with and from at Fundraising Academy and it's a really interesting voice when he joins us on Ask and Answered. And as you know, if you watch or follow us, we're really privileged in that we get different folks from Fundraising Academy on and so we get different perspectives. They're all rooted in the Fundraising Academy methodology for cause selling. But at the end of the day each one of the trainers, they have their own experiences and their own opinions. And I think that's what makes this so incredibly rich. So now that I fangirled out, let's get on to the real business of of way we're here. Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors. They include Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy, National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. We have grown so much since we started working with everybody and broadcasting now. We're in our fourth year and what's super cool. We're so proud about this is that our team at the American Nonprofit Academy has built an app and you can simply take a picture of this QR code and then we will engage with you every day through your through your phone and let you know what was presented, discussed. You can access our archives to it. It's super cool. And of course, you can still find us on our podcasts or streaming broadcasts. So we like to go wherever you are, at what point in time you are working on your life of service and mission. Okay, Mui, you are going to be back in the States for Cultivate. Is that true? Yep, it's the reason why I decided to stop traveling abroad. I don't know. So for me, San Diego is traveling abroad. Fair. It is a gorgeous place to be. I'm not complaining that I'm going to be probably the most beautiful place in the universe. Talk to us about what we can expect and what's going to be going on at Cultivate because for a lot of us we've been locked down and this might be one of the first opportunities we've had to rejoin IRL with some of our our cohorts. Yeah, we have a leadership track. We have a new fundraising, new fundraiser track, real opportunity for people to meet in person, discuss a network and really cultivate relationships. And we're going to have a fantastic day of panels and discussions. So you have opportunity for professional development. It's only $99 for the whole day, including your meals. So make weekend out of it, come for the day, whatever you can do. We'd love to host you then. Yeah, I think it's going to be really great. I know Mui and I don't know if you know this, but we are going to broadcast live the nonprofit show from there and then we'll also extend to our Friday Ask and Answer there as well. So it'll be a lot of fun and we hope to join you, all of our viewers there and anyone who's actually participating. I think it's going to be really an amazing thing. So Cultivate 2023, you can go to Fundraisingacademy's website, fundraising-academy.org, or you can take a quick snap of this QR code and we'll be talking about this some more. Okay, are you ready to get going on some questions? We have some good ones this week. Of course, I think we always have good ones, but Shane from Reno, Nevada writes, several board members are asking about having a board liaison. Frankly, we don't have the bandwidth or funding to add another person to our team. Do you have any ideas on how to accomplish this job description and put a board liaison in place? Yeah, this is interesting. Shane, typically in my experience, that has been executive director. So I'm sure what the dynamic of your organization is, what the organization looks like, but I would say if there is no executive director at your organization or if that's currently not part of their job description, then perhaps the board president or board secretary is leading the responsibility to connect with staff. Is this board liaison to connect with the staff or with volunteers or in what capacity? So when you come up with that job description, it's hard to add to a new person, but the fact that you don't have the bandwidth is also challenging. But in terms of communicating with the board, setting fundraising goals, engaging the board members in fundraising, maybe it falls on somebody in the development as well. So those are just some quick thoughts. I would love to hear what you have to say as well, Belia. Well, you know, this is like one of my big soapbox championship moment, championing moments, because I've served on boards where the magic happened because of a board liaison. And I've served on boards where there was no board liaison and I felt like it was just a completely mismanaged situation. So I'm super hyper about this piece of the puzzle, if you will. It is an administrative piece, no doubt about it, but it is also somebody who champions board functionality, right? And I think they become the person that orchestrates effectiveness, compliance, and really helps make things structurally sound so that the minute that board member sits down in their seat, they can start cranking out and being productive. Too many minutes of a board meeting are often wasted on what time is that 10-30 meeting? And it's ridiculous. So for me, that board liaison piece is just super critical. And if you don't have one, you should be working towards one and finding the budget for it. To your point, Muhi, most oftentimes it is associated with the CEO or executive director and most often it's their administrative assistant. Somebody who already has access to the talents and the structure of the organization and can navigate back and forth. It should never be a board role because the board liaison should never have a vote. So that's something that your board secretary or some of these other positions, yeah, they're going to be voting members. But the board liaison really shouldn't be, unless maybe Muhi, it was like a temporary thing, right? They're filling in because this role hasn't been perfected or it's vacant for a period of time. But you know, Shane, there are a lot of courses on this. There are a lot of discussions. I know we at the American Nonprofit Academy have done a lot of work on this on the nonprofit show. We have a lot of episodes about this. But I can tell you that I'm asked to serve on boards quite a bit just because of my work. And my first question is always, do you have a board liaison? And then my second question is, do you have a sound strategic plan? Because to me, when I look at an organization and if they don't have those two components, I have to say Muhi, I don't think of them as, you know, real players. Sounds awful maybe, but you know, it doesn't seem like they're elevated enough to really get the work done. So I don't know. It's a tough one, but I think it's really important. So Shane, I hope that you, I hope that we haven't made you feel badly because you know, you're not in this process, but I think it's a really important one. So best of luck to you and go get them on that board liaison. Okay, Randy writes in from Fort Worth, Texas. What's the appropriate, if not conservative fundraising annual percentage increase we should plan on. I am working on a budget for a nonprofit who has not been good at setting realistic goals in fundraising. Interesting. I'm a volunteer and working on their development committee. Interesting. Well, Randy, thank you for volunteering and being on the development committee first and foremost. That is so awesome of you. What I would say is, and this is my soapbox moment, so I think that setting realistic goals is a healthy thing. The way that you go about setting realistic goals instead of just saying, I'm running 10% next year, we're going to hit 5 million because we did 3 million this year. It doesn't make sense. So if you look at your historical data from 3 years, from 5 years, look at what the data is telling you. What percentage growth has there been year over year? And then set the percentage of it to say for next year, it's reasonable that with our current stopping, with our current budget, with our current structure in place, this seems likely. If you are going to increase it more than that, are you adding on more staff? How are you going to achieve that goal with your current resources? So not to say that increases aren't possible more than what your data is telling you, but be ready to spend the resources to make that happen. You know, I love that because I don't know if anyone has ever said that you grow, you're going to need more resources. I mean, I think sometimes we don't look at that. We just think, oh wow, we're going to get all this extra stuff, and then we discount what it takes to manage that. So I love that you said that. I'm curious when you look at this data and you look at the year over year, I've got two questions for you. What would that trajectory be? And then let's face it, we've been in a wackadoo situation because of the global pandemic, and maybe we've had an infusion of cash that's like a one-time thing, or how do we kind of look at this in a historical context and be accurate, or maybe we can't? I don't know. Yeah, I think one thing you can do is take out any outliers, right? If there was a one-time gift that was $100,000, and it didn't repeat in the next year, you can remove that when you look at your averages from year over year. Another thing that is helpful is looking at the number of donors, the number of donations, or the number of donors that you had in the year. Did it increase? What was the average gift size? All of these metrics will help determine what that realistic goal should be for the following year, and you should have more than just a number, say $3 million. There should be a goal for your retention rate. There should be a goal for your attrition rate becoming lower. There should be a goal for the average amount of donations increasing. So all of these different metrics can play an important role in coming up with some key performance indicators for your team. I love that you said that because what I really appreciate about that Mui is that it doesn't make so often what gets reported to the board is like a single number, and you're the hero or you're the villain, as opposed to saying, okay, this is where we are in reporting every month, and our goal is to get so many new donors or to keep, you know, re-engage old donors or all of these stats. I think too, if you're struggling, it can tell you or help guide you where you need to focus on, not just as opposed to, we need more money. Well, yeah, that's the easy thing to say, but yeah, I love that you said that. So before we move on, help us again with Randy, some of the areas that you would set goals for, number of donors? Yeah, yeah, looking at how many donations came in their year prior, what the average gift size was, what your retention rate is, your attrition rate, focus on increasing the number of donors, and you can even, this is a game, Stokebox moment, you can even break it down, like how many gifts came in between $1,000 and $1,000? We want to increase that number specifically the next year, like this is where I'm near it out, so Randy, reach out, I will help you with it. Yeah, I really think this is the back end thing that is so smart, Mui, and then, and before I let you go, Randy, with this question, what does it look like in terms of, should this be reported out every month, every quarter, to the board, to the CEO? I mean, how should we be using this information or tracking it? Is it like a one-shot deal or is it a continual thing? That's a great question, and what I would say with any key performance indicators, if this is part of your metrics, if this is part of your development plan, your strategic plan, you want to be visiting it quarterly, and that way you can see how you're doing and see where you need to shift focus and energy. You and I both know so often these metrics and these data points show up when there's no more runway to work on it. You've already landed the plane, the year is ending, and then it's just such a beatdown, right? So, I like your idea of working with those numbers and living with them throughout the year so that we have a better sense of what we're doing and how we can make things work, because otherwise, that's just not going to happen. Okay, let's go to our next question, and this comes from Jamie from Detroit, Michigan, and Jamie writes in, we're not having luck at searching for fundraising professionals. Do you think it would be wise to look at people who have been in for-profit sales? You know, we've gotten this question a couple times, or should we just stick to the non-profit sector for finding this talent? I like the idea of using the wording cause selling. Well, Jamie, I will be in Detroit in a few weeks. Let me know, I'll help out whatever you need. I think there's a lot of translatable skills from the for-profit relationship building to non-profit fundraising, and it's something that you are having no luck in finding fundraising professionals. You know, get connected with the association of fundraising professionals. If you haven't posted your job there, there's other professional networks in non-profits here within Detroit, but I think that there is a lot of, right, you know, so I wonder what parameters you're setting for this division, what the salary range is, what the expectations are, so have a little bit more of that information, or it might be harder to find somebody with 15 years of experience to lead as a chief development officer for a large-scale non-profit throughout the region, but I think for, you know, early career, mid-career, even, you know, five to ten years, there's so much talent in the non-profit community and the fundraising community that I think maybe is setting more parameters around what type of person you're looking for, and hopefully you'll be able to learn the same one. You know, it almost seems to me when I read this that maybe this is the first time they're like looking at hiring professionals, because I agree with you, Mouhi, that we have a lot of networking things that are going on across this country for professional development, for, you know, advancement of the career, the sector within the non-profit world, so yeah, getting involved in those groups I think is just critical for a lot of reasons, not just for headhunting, but I think it's an important part. I mean, I don't know about you, but it seems to me that it helps build our professionalism, we can all make more money when we understand, you know, how to be a professional part of the sector, and I think it's a healthy thing to do. Really interesting. Okay, well, Jamie, I hope this helps and cause selling, yeah. Those are the two magic words, man. That's definitely where we need to be. Okay, now you know, Mouhi, I love this when we do a name withheld. So, I'm gonna man up, woman up, and I'm gonna tell you that I took this person's name off, because although Miami's a big city, it's not that big. So, the question that came in to us during a recent interview for a development director position, I was asked about my political affiliation. I found this quite odd and somewhat offensive. I'm not pursuing this job, but could you some advice if this happens again? Wow. Yeah, that's an interesting one, you know, with political affiliation, and maybe the organization has a few donors that are of a particular party, and maybe they feel like political identity may get in the way as a fundraiser. I know personally for me it doesn't, especially working with high net worth individuals, sometimes they were on the opposite party line that I was, but it never affected fundraising for the mission. And I think if I were to be asked that question, that's how I would answer it. But it's really interesting, dynamic, because you know, whether the morals and values of the organization aligned with that particular political party, that's also something to consider. There are certain jobs that are necessarily wouldn't work for based on the mission, not aligned with what I prefer in terms of social justice or political affiliation or so many other causes. So, yeah, those are my thoughts on it. How about you? You know, it's interesting. Well, first of all, I saw that it came from Florida. And so for right now, Florida is in, you know, in the news every two minutes for something political. And my feeling is it's only going to get more intense as we move into another presidential election season. So, yeah, I can see, I can see this question maybe moving being asked more and more. And for me, it's shocking, because I have, I think I was always raised that there's like the separation of church and state. And these are certain things that you don't bring to the table you don't talk about, you know, I really love what you said. And I would have not thought of this, but to say, you know, when I work with high net worth donors, we focus on the mission. And so we transcend some of these, these discussions. And I think that's, that's truly the way we should be leading. So I really like that you said that again, unless it's, you know, a politically oriented, you know, like it's an action a pack or something that you're serving, right? But no, I think, I think this is probably going to be happening. I don't know more and more. And it kind of makes me sad. But yeah, wow. I mean, we're going into the season and, and these things will probably become more and more discussed. So I love what you had to say. And I hope that this, this advice helps with other areas, you know, because I don't know about you, but when you're with a donor and you're talking, you know, and you have a lot more experience than I do, obviously. But do these things come up, the these political values or views, or is it kind of in code that when you're talking with somebody? Yeah, in my past experience, it hasn't gotten brought up. You know, I've worked at the American Red Cross, I've worked at a few religious organizations, I've worked at a telehealth nonprofit. It didn't come up. But I could see certain instances when I'm appealing, or sometimes even board members, they're working with their network of friends, and they say, hey, you know, can you come and support my organization? But then in return, the favors that that board member goes and supports a political candidate for that person's friend, and all of these things happen. But when talking through the impact and the mission and focusing on the organization, it's something that's gotten in the way. Yeah, you know, I think that that's, it's just really, you need to be thoughtful, and you need to be thinking about, you know, these things as we move forward. And maybe, moving to your point, understanding, and I don't like using the word script, but understanding kind of like what your response would be. And I think that's probably, those are wise words probably for all of us to say, you know, how would we handle this? Because again, as we move into a political season, and especially for that person from Florida, yikes, I mean, it's going to be just, you know, a part of how they navigate their conversations, even at the supermarket. So I would imagine. So pretty tough. Well, hey, you know, Mui Kawaja, we're so excited that we've had you on today. Again, I always love your viewpoints. And you have such a rich history in our sector. And you're so gracious about sharing that knowledge and training. And as a trainer with Fundraising Academy, this is something that I know you do. And you really, you know, help lead us throughout the sector on how we can do better. It all comes down to fundraising, my friends and no money, no mission, you know, we got to get this, we got to keep this plane flying. And so these are the conversations that we need to have. Mui is also the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation, which is such an interesting sector within this, the US, the community foundations around this country do amazing work. And we don't always know enough about them. And so it's always exciting to know that you're going to come on and give us a different viewpoint. So we're super excited that you could join us today from Spain, Cordoba, Spain. Oh, paella. Is there nothing better than paella? I just got to say. Delicious. Happy to be here. As always, Julia. Thank you. Well, you are great. I love any time that we get with you. And I love having you on another episode of the nonprofit show. Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors, and they include Blumerang, American nonprofit Academy, your part 10 controller, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at national university, staffing boutique, the nonprofit nerd, and nonprofit tech talk. Hey, everybody, we like to end every episode of the nonprofit show with our mantra, and especially as we leave, lead into a weekend here on Friday, ask and answer. We always leave our viewers, our listeners, our guests and ourselves with the thought to stay well so you can do well.