 Fading out there is the national team, Rambes Taz players, of course, from Paul Were, Massoud Jumand, Golkeeper Patrick Matazi, speaking to FKF media head of the Continental Shopping African Cup of Nations, kicking off in a few days from now as we speak, of course, it will be taking place in Egypt at 24 teams participating for the first time expansion, of course, happening and joining me to review the state of Kenyan football with regards to national super league run coming to an end tomorrow with various fixtures, three teams looking forward to be crown champion and get promoted to KPL. Primarily, Gia Nwaga, the social nerd has been here, Barry Sila, a robust journalist and also Robert Mahebo-Kohost, is still with us. Starting with you, Gia Nwaga, listening to players speaking ahead of the Continental Shopping, they are all boy and very optimistic of performing and some of them getting quoted saying that they wouldn't underrate the likes of Senegal and Algeria, of course, our group mates. What do you make of their performance, anticipated performance, of course? I think it will be, it will be alive if we say that we stand up. Just raise up your mic. I think it will be alive if you would have said that Kenya has a high opportunity of getting out of the group because in my opinion it's one of the groups of death. So I think the boys are doing very well in terms of being confident about it and I know it will be tough but it is football and any team can prosper at the end of the day. I remember speaking to FKF communications manager Barry Oteena and he told me that just like there were upsets during FIFA World Cup and even Euro Cup, the likes of Iceland, you know, pulling surprises against the everywhere it's in. And the same thing can happen in Afgan and Kenya, can perform contrary to people's expectations, true or false? Just like Iena said, I think the element of confidence is very important. So whether you are ranked lower or whatever, if you build confidence, if the coaches tell the players you can do it, then they're able to put it in their head that you can do it. Remember now this football or any other sport, it's all about the mental ability. If you can believe in yourself, then even Arambestas can go for it. So I believe that Arambestas, if they are confident enough, if they play according to tactics, then they can pull a surprise. Yes, Nwag, of course you are on this particular show but this particular time you are speaking from partiality sort of, you know, because you support kizumulsters who are chasing for KPL promotion crowns because they will be playing their last class again as Tika United tomorrow at Tika Municipal. Tika United as you speak, they have been relegated alongside green commandos of Kamega and Migori youth but what do you make of the competition in terms of NSL? First of all I think just to go from the beginning, I think this is the best thing that has ever happened to kizumul town in a while. It's the first time we are seeing a community club, it's boys you see around kizumul, boys you know and they've come up and put up this amazing run and now they're only one game away from winning it all. So what I would like to say is kizumul in terms of talent alone in the national super league, we've seen some splendid displays, they have one of the tightest defenses in the league, I think they are just behind Ushuru in terms of goals conceded. They had the top goalscorer before he was snatched away, now there are other players coming in and we have to put it into context that this is a team that only has an average of 22 years. So I think it's an amazing thing that kizumul has done and at the county as well so I'm looking forward to tomorrow winning it, I hope we'll see it in Nairobi's team at draw points and it will be a wonderful culmination. But you've covered Kenyan football especially national super league for a while, what do you make of the competition and in terms of culmination into tomorrow's clashes of course both of them happening at the same time to determine who a winner will be and get promoted to NSL amongst Nairobi's team sitting third on the log and kizumul starts on the second then wazito occupying the top spot, how has it been? I think for me based on my assessment over the years I've covered the national super league, this has been the tightest season so far and many stakeholders are saying maybe the top league KPL should be as competitive as this and it's because for me what some of like Ian is saying the talent there is very ripe and players are wrote talent down there but also we have very good quality tacticians coming up here. They are very young and ambitious and they are building good teams, even the teams at the basement they are very good players that have shown what they can do and now I understand they are like two or three now in the chan, two or three players from the super league that are in the chan, way before this was unheard of so I think when you look at the top even the top table between number one and four the difference is only eight points and between number one and three the difference is one point. So it would be interesting to see how tomorrow plays out especially because all the top three teams are playing teams that have nothing to lose, the leaders are at home, wazito are at home against San Joseps, Nairobi's team is a way to retute a team that I call it a jansle, it never respects any opponent especially at home and then of course kizumulsters are away at Tika. So we have to remember that during the last final stretch usually it's more mental so you have to be prepared mentally, it's not about tactics anymore, it's about are you going to be composed and how you will deliver because I think tomorrow anybody who makes a mistake is out of the chase. Of course you're going to share that particular mic with Osoro Robert because he's cut us off the blaze he's putting on, he's reoned Osoro Robert there has been concerns with regards to administrators of Kenyan Premier League for not doing much to ensure that KPL has got that umf and spice it needs. Do you think that's a challenge now to them cut us off national super league and the level of competition that has been witnessed the crowds in terms of fun attendance? I think national super league sides are getting more of the crowd attendance because most of their matches are not in Nairobi, they are actually at home, you look at kizumulsters, they are playing most of their matches in kizumul, we have got Eldoret Youth, you have got San Josep, San Josep come from Isibania, Sirare that's where they are coming from, you've got Shabana was formerly at the Kenya Premier League also attracting crowds from western, we have got the likes of Green Commander. So that community level of commitment from the club and the community and the people around the community is why they are having those kind of funds for the Kenya Premier League is all about most of the crowd, most of them being commercial entities that are actually most of them busy here in Nairobi, you can argue some are corporate social responsibilities for some of the biggest companies here in town and that's what they do, they don't go that extra mile to build them to be the clubs that they are supporting. We have got people to be at the level of the Kenya Premier League, for the Kenya Premier League itself, you can say and people will agree with you that they have not done much as what they can do because a club like Kormaya which has a wage bill of I think 5.2 million a month, you playing 30 or so matches a season, you are playing 40 or so matches a season considering all the competitions you are in in the CAF Champions League, in the CAF Confederations Cup, you are playing at home in the Kenyan Premier League, in the GoTV Shield, now the Sport Pesa Cup, you are playing another competition and then you have spent over 100 million in a season, then at the end of the season you are winning a trophy wadi 4 million. That's a question that someone will be like, you should be getting more money than the money you have spent in a season, also this money can help you build but for 4 million that's just money for one month, that's just one month wage bill for this club, so for the Kenya Premier League they have to go an extra mile to get sponsors who can come in and help them. I understand they cannot do it alone, that one we got it correct and precise that the Kenyan Premier League cannot get the money that they can have to help these teams out but at the end of the day they need to do much better so that these clubs can have something, something that they can go home with, let's say if you win a trophy you 100% sure the money that is coming with this trophy is really going to help the club. And talking about the sponsorship, of course we've seen several teams crying foul with regards to the kind of financial support they have received from even county administration, Viga United as we speak they have been relegated and have spoken to several people associated with the team, they say that you know the awful support from the Viga county government has also contributed to their performance hence relegation. And from that aspect do you think Kisumu Olstaz has gained much needed support from Kisumu County government and going forward do they seek to continue with the same? I think it's one thing I have to say it's an amazing precedent that has been set by the likes of Viga county and Kisumu County governments that are coming in and supporting something from their county for their county. Yes. That is something for their community and I think one of the most amazing things is about Kisumu Olstaz is they chose a sponsor that operates within their county in Royal Dental that are sponsoring the team with the Kisumu County government. So I think it's a wake up call to many clubs out there because if your county has a team you don't need to rely upon sponsors in Nairobi you can take two or three sponsors and you'll be marketing your own businesses in your county in your area of operation. So the other thing I'll have to say about county sponsorship is football and politics really can't mix because the instability that exists in politics is too much for football to handle. And it has happened, months have gone without players receiving their salaries because maybe the national government has not disbursed money to the county government. So it reaches a point where a county really is just helpless and that's why you need co-sponsorships among the teams you need to have at least one or two sponsors out there. But it has been also condemnation with regards to officiating in national super league with others saying that best officiating has been witnessed and some teams getting much pre-friends and getting favoured in terms of picking three marks man points. Aron, have you witnessed such situations in your coverage of the same? I would be careful to say I've witnessed rather what I'd say is to some extent, and many people have complained to some extent there's been a bit of funny or shoddy officiating in a league as high as, you know this is the second tier league. And some of these officiators or some of these referees by the way actually officiating the KPA. So I think it's a wake up call even to the federation and its referees to ensure that there is quality delivery out there because remember if a referee decides a match based on just some funny thoughts it cannot really post a team. So we need to be serious when it comes to the element of officiating. It's one of the things I think in this day and age where it's killing football. When you look at the level of officiating here and maybe abroad there's quite a big gulf. Yet I think these referees are all trained with FIFA catalogs of FIFA manuals. So I don't understand why for example maybe because of... But do you think the same is also attributed to the low pay or lack of pay completely? I believe so because some of these referees there's a point where for months they are not being paid. So maybe some might think maybe they were cost maybe paid but I can't say I have evidence but this is also a challenge to the federation. You pay your employees and then they deliver the maximum but it's not to say that the referees even if you're not paid you signed on how to do the best. If you can't do the best then I don't understand why you're a referee in a big league like the National Super League. Oslo Robert, standard officiating and lack of the same in Kenyan football do you think even has led to much fixing that has been witnessed several players being the culprits of the monster? I think people have got to understand also the mechanisms of how these people are paid. We realize that in the Kenyan Premier League of all the sponsorship money they get, how do they disbarse this money? People usually forget that the money is only for the players or the money is only that is being disbarse to the clubs. Remember they also have to pay the referees like the Kenyan Premier League has to pay the referees. They have to train the referees. It's up to last season when the football Kenyan Federation pulled the referees to the FKF federation right now that the federation now deals with the referees at the end of the day. But these referees also you have to pay them. There's no way you can deal with that. A referee cannot go 10 matches without being paid and this is not only a Kenyan problem. But referees in Togo India have not been paid for 10 matches. Be sure that in the 11th match he has to do something to get that money. And most of these referees are not in high end paying jobs. These are just your normal school teachers, just your normal nurse, just your normal anybody outside there that has a chance to go and referee this game. But then they have to be put in a pedestal where they understand that what you are doing is for the betterment of the game. Not just us as referees getting this money but for the betterment in the future of the game. That is just something that has got to be instilled in them and for it to have a standard officiating that can help the country. Of course if you are just tuning in right now this is the touchline on Y25. We are dissecting national super league coming to an end tomorrow. The second tier of Kenyan football with several teams chasing for the overall crown was Z2FC Kisumolsters alongside Nairobi's team. All looking forward to be crowned champions in tomorrow's kalimination and of course get promoted to the Kenyan Premier League which is the main tier. Of course as we speak about that official green commanders of Kakamega Hombu is Tika United alongside Migori Youth have been relegated and the three up there was Z2FC Nairobi's team and Kisumolsters chasing for top crown and get promoted to Kenyan Premier League. But let's also talk about the aspect of whoever helped the team to get promoted and whether they get retained because we witnessed scenarios where like KCB they were promoted and most of the players who immensely contributed towards their breakthrough now being axed. Can we witness the same situation with Kisumolsters in case they win the second tier and get promoted to... First of all I hope nothing like that happens because the reason I'm saying I maintain these are historic run-ins also because of the team itself. The way it's set up we have a very young team manager in Alfredo Guko is a very young man. He's taken the team from last season where the team was really doing badly. He's structured the team and now he's on the brink of bringing the team to the Kenyan Premier League. So I think the notion whereby you have to rely on old guards or other football stakeholders or the big guys. I think that is what is hurting our football because at the end of the day these are people who really have worked. The players trust in them. The players like them. They understand them. He's been there motivating the players. So I will be very shocked if Kisumol would stoop to such lows. That being said joining the Kenyan Premier League I must admit is a different ballgame altogether. So I really expect there to be added support maybe they're bringing a few guys in terms of strategic move and experience. But really firing the people who really did the work will be very unfortunate. I've got a question for Bayri because he's the one who has covered the NSL more than any of us here in the table. The question will be how tough is it in the NSL because I remember Ushuru came to the Kenyan Premier League, played for I think two seasons and then were relegated. For the part of the last five years Ushuru has been fighting for the number three position. They have never gone past that. Vika United they came, they were in the league for very good run I think ten years. The moment they were relegated to the NSL they are still going further down. They are not coming up. KCB went back, came out. How tough is it to play in the NSL for these clubs? To answer you Ushuru I'd say this. NSL first of all like any other football tyre you need a lot of investment and that means investment in good players and investment in a good technical bench. The reason why some of these teams struggle is because when they're in the Kenya Premier League and then they drop down to the NSL most of them look lose like a half or a huge chunk of the players who have ambition to still play in the Kenya Premier League. And therefore when they go back to the National Super League it's a bit of a struggle. It's a bit of a push and pull. So that is one of the issues. Another issue is maybe motivation. National Super League I believe is one of those leagues that over half of the teams don't have sponsorship money. I remember the National Super League itself doesn't have sponsorship. The only sponsorship I think it had was with one of the broadcasters. Yeah, broadcast rights. But beyond that I think there are very few teams who have sponsorship packages and that means you will have a case where some teams will probably even give workovers because logistics they can travel and stuff. So these also helped destroyed teams let's say like Tika United. Tika United had a sponsor, the sponsor went away. Now they have to struggle. They've gone down. Now they're going even deeper. I think the biggest challenge has been probably replicating whatever they had in the Kenya Premier League to this league. And remember in the National Super League it's not straightforward. Everybody is fighting for a point. If you are going to come with an attitude that we are the big boys and everything unless you are Zito for example who invested heavily across the board then I think it's going to be difficult. Anybody who gets relegated from the KPL to come this side it's not going to be obvious that you come back to the National Super League. And Ushuru is main and doing. There has also been this talk that there is one man who puts on so many hearts at Ushuru is the chairman, is the coach, is the secretary general. Do you think that has undermined their performance considering they have a concrete sponsor in Kiare? So what happened just the other day? I think it came rather late. Was that Kiare who owns Ushuru. They have now put in a new chairman directly works at Kiare. I think it's the commission of domestic taxes or something. And now also the coach that we have currently is now on performance contract. So going forward we are expecting, this might have come late but going forward we are expecting Ushuru to deliver on the target when the target obviously is going to the Kenya Premier League. And for what you are saying about one person carrying many hearts I think it's important in this league to have what you call a specialization. If you are the head coach you have an assistant do your job. A technical manager do your job. And everybody has to do their job. If you are going to do everything I think there will be a mess up and then maybe you will even clash with your own players because you have to do just about everything. I think that's the way to go. In a professional run league for example I would like to use the example of Wazita. Wazita in the bench like 7 guys. They even have physio, TM, a coach and technical direction assistant. But now if a team has one person doing everything it's obviously going to be a challenge. Was it when they came on board of Ricardo Don Rico as you know the overall club president and now they are on their way to Kenyan Premier League football of course whether they win the national super league or not they are obviously getting promoted. Do you think they are the PSG Kenyan version of the French mani bags Paris and Jermaine or probably Manchester City because we witnessed the same situation with the two when they came into limelight? I think Ricardo has thought Kenyan stakeholder is one thing. If you are going to own a club you need money. You are not going to own a club because of a name. You are not going to come in and say I am the chairman of Wazito FC when you don't have money to back you up because at the end of the day before Wazito breaks even to start making its own money to be professional enough to make its own money and operational costs are coming from Wazito FC as a company there has to be some level of investment and this investment is coming in from Ricardo. Ricardo is not just saying that I am throwing you money and at the end of the day I want you to just win the trophy. Ricardo is just telling people that I am putting my money in Wazito and after 5 years after 10 years I need to see my investment. How is it going and what kind of returns I am expecting. It is coming. It is both of my team bus. Many teams don't have buses. It is both of my team bus. It is coming when we broadcast rights. It is on TV station that Wazito is using right now. Next season you will see a very different kind of contract negotiations between Wazito and the Kenyan Premier because they can manage to produce their games. You realize that. So this kind of games how are they going to help them going forward, how are their players image rights being sold outside there. And then again it is coming. It is going to buy good players that can push Wazito to another level because now you are having players who are in the NSL you have the Yankee like Masika who made it to Chan but when you come to the Kenyan Premier you need experienced players. What kind of players that Wazito is going to bring in so he is going to invest in those kind of players and the moment they come to the Kenyan Premier and play well and stay in the Kenyan Premier League they are return on investment has to come back and that is what they are fighting for. Just to add to his point is I will revisit your earlier point where you said most of the clubs here in Kenya are doing it as a CSR and Wazito have identified this is a business football at the end of the day is a business when you look at Europe all the investments that are being made by the 80 hat group by the people on PSG it is a business transaction so that is the difference when you do it as a CSR there is a level of unseriousness that you take it with so what was it was done actually it has come and told guys you see we can be able to invest in football and I am really happy about that that is one of the things I love about them because even spoke about building a stadium in the coming years no one has ever thought of that we have teams that have been winning the Kenya Premier League for years my own team I support Gorma here so it is really a wake up call to other owners football is a business and it can be scalable and it can be able to get profits so Wazito is just saying what you learn sorry maybe just to add a bit on what Ian and Osoro were saying any corporate would obviously want return on investment but what the corporate mostly look at is one thing accountability and structures if a club or an organization has good structures from ground up and this accountability I can assure you most corporate out there are looking for organizations to invest in and that means what the lesson here for most club is you must be serious like Ian is saying take this sport or football as a business put the structures in order and every corporate will pour money at you I don't think it's rocket science every corporate just want to put their money where they know the returns will be back actually you look at Wazito next season I can dare say next season with the way Wazito is going in the graph it will not be Wazito sending proposals to corporates it will be corporates sending proposals to Wazito I agree with you and that's how they will be making their money because now they have got the visibility that they want most of our local TV stations here at home we don't have the broadcast money to offer these clubs to come on board Wazito FC and their president can do that next season in the Kenyan Premier League remember the Kenyan Premier League is not money that exchanges hands it's all about visibility but if Wazito can dare say that we've got 20 million to give for broadcast rights they can take those rights and corporates will be like we are in the online platform technology is moving this way football is moving this way and we can make money through these people with the way they are going and that's our profile and I think at the end of the day what is really happening in the football landscape is football in Kenya is evolving so people are still stuck in the past the people don't want it to evolve the people want the status quo to remain because that's how they benefit from it but what Ricardo is doing is realize football is evolving throughout the world there are online platforms we have 4G internet in the next few years we'll have 5G internet we'll be now online and I think they are leveraging that so I think what they are doing is they are just evolving the game in Kenya gentlemen we have to wrap it up on that particular note but before we do your parting shot with regards to tomorrow's expectations Ian starting with you what do you look forward to I'm looking forward to a very good game I'm urging all supporters of Sumo All Stars to come out let's go to Thika Stadium let's paint that stadium light blue let's make sure we come out of there with 3 points and let's secure this KPL promotion because we deserve it the county has done a good job the sponsors, the team management the coaches and now it's up to us let us go there, let us be the 12th man on that pitch tomorrow and I'm really looking forward to an M40 queen governor, professor himself will he come through to support the boys and give them much needed motivation I hope he does what I know is our CEC for sports actually will be there tomorrow to support the team and the team are right now very motivated they are ready to play they are in a good state mentally at the game in midweek saw them play under a huge crowd one of the biggest crowds ever in Kisumu in terms of NSL so the boys right now are very pumped and it was very evident by their performance they even said it after the game and tomorrow it's going to be huge thank you for the gormaya supporters will come down tomorrow will need that but which game now will you be covering because it seems that you might be in dilemma to exercise to cover for starters I'll be a neutral so may the best team win and number two I think we will be keeping tabs on all games you remember all games are starting at 1400 hours, 2pm all of them so my ears will be neldoret my ears will be in thick and my ears will come to her but apart from that as I finish I'd like to say the rest even for the golden boot if there is such a thing is very tight remember Denis O'Allow was formerly at Kisumosa now it's Nairobi's team with 21 goals and we have at 19 goals Tevin Onyango for Chunzako their team is 13th and then Brian Yahama with 18 goals so tomorrow we might see something else I've never seen a situation where apart from the league being tight the golden boot is so tight and it's going to be interesting fantastic conversation it's been reviewing national super league coming to a close tomorrow Kisumosa Nairobi's team are all chasing for title crown and we're going to be keeping an eye on that particular development and see how that pans out Waseke Maxwell is my name Osoro Robert is my co-host and he did something nice with Kefua Kenya Footballers Welfare Association and in particular with their president and he's not a former international he still plays with Mother United actually he's former defender for the national team but he will say he's still the defender for the national team in case he's given a call up you will sparkle let's listen in to what he said with regards to pushing for the welfare and concerns of players