 Okay, so let's get started. So welcome to the glossary meeting. Oh, Noah is there. So welcome to glossary meeting. I think it's going to be the rather short, at least from my end. Hey, Noah. I was on vacation for two weeks and the other week on our conference. So basically all the time gone since the last one. So, but we do have some news. Okay, so we do have some news. So Ihor from the CNCF will be helping the glossary a little bit in the future. So very excited to get his support. I used to work with him back when we wrote some CNCS, no, new stack articles and he was reviewing it and it's really great to work with him. So I'm very excited. I'll be meeting with him next week just to give him like a quick update for where we're at and like how what would be helpful on our end. And yeah, so and the other thing that I'm really excited is the tags are finally implemented the tags. I mean this is going on forever. And so now when you see here, you can either go to a specific term or you can browse by tags. And then you can have like just one tag or combine them. And then you'll see everything that has those tags here and then go and see the actual term. So the idea is basically that specifically like if you're looking for some things specific of course you're going to use this but especially for people who are new. And like if you want to get started it's like okay here. These are all the fundamentals like if you're starting, you should probably kind of get a sense of what this is because if you don't know what a cluster is a lot of the definitions will not make sense. And then maybe you want to have fundamentals in architecture right and and so on so I think it's very helpful I'm very excited that that is now live. I also added a who can contribute side section in our glossary just to make expectations a little clearer I think like a lot of people think they can contribute but are not quite there yet. So just to make clear like what you need work where you need to be at to actually contribute to the glossary. Hopefully that will help because I think it might have led to a little bit of frustration because people think they are able to contribute something don't have the background and then there's a lot of back and forth and it's frustration for everyone right it's frustration for the contributor as well because they, they really wanted to participate we have a lot of people eager to participate in the cognitive ecosystem and contributed contributing to open source. I think managing that expectations and making clear what's needed is really important so hopefully that helps. And, oh yeah so that's actually I think that would be more in the Montana discussion so my. Let's think about remind remind me of that so because I think it should be part of the template just check people that they have read it, but we can discuss this further down. Again that's all I had three weeks basically gone from last four weeks so I don't know there's not much so back to over to you so. Let's go over to the localization of data I just to mention that take filters. I'd like to say thanks to Chris Abraham and James who implemented the take filters functionality. We brought this function to our grocery grocery project. So I hope to mention them. Okay, let's go to the localization update. I really called the last last meeting I requested to all localization branch maintainers to update their branches. Maybe based on to the latest main branch. And as you can see, many of localization team applied. I mean, completed this task. So I'd like to say thanks to all localization maintainers. We're still waiting for. PRs from route and Arabic language. So, in case of road language. We already have PR so it is working progress and in case of Arabic language. No response. Yes, so please. Take a look the issue. So those two branches are remaining tasks for me. Okay. Next item is about to sharing. Some additional. And strings. Then need to be localized. In t o ml file. So, if you check. The link. Can you open that link. Yeah. By the tag filtering implementation. We added more strings to that requires to be localized. As you can see, those new strings should be localized by localization team. But before work on this localization, you would better to rebase your development branch again to reflect those new t o ml pile. So I think that's all from the localization update. Is there any question regarding those two items. Yeah, I think most of localization maintainers understand what I mean. Okay, I think that's all from my side for the update, and maybe can go to individual language team Spanish maybe Carol. Yes, hi, everyone. Well, I think I put the update that we are trying to sink our branch that is deaf as the Spanish to the main at the end of the month, we are trying to sink. Yeah, I think is the second time that we, we did it, we're trying to keep this, this control our tower sinks. Yeah, I think. Also, I think we have a pool request about github actions about try to automatize the stage issues that I think some CEO. Someone one already reviewed, I did it, I applied the changes. And yeah, and we are only trying to apply it in the Spanish branch to testing this is this github action. Okay, I think that's all I don't know you have questions. Okay, thank you Carol. Let me check your PR regarding the automation for the state issues and PRs. Actually we shared the in the previous meeting. So, most of them understand what the PR implement. So, let me let me check your PR. Yeah, your review it was great that I applied this. Has been that you suggest. Okay, thank you. Thank you. In Germany. Yes. Okay. Yeah, we reorganized our workflow a little bit. As you can see we had a little bit problems to translate a lot of terms. And we are just three people. So we had, we made a meeting where we talked about how we can translate more terms and find our flow a little bit again. And yeah, I think to the next meeting we can have a little bit more news more terms translated. That's my hope and I'm optimistic to do it in this. Since last time we have just one new term merged and to review. And we have still 11 published terms. And same last like, like last month. And we've nearly finished our blog post. So I think all sex, all sections are filled. And I also already reviewed it. I don't know if the other two still in review to review everything. But we're very close to say it's finished. We also have a review again and then I guess Catherine you will probably go over it again to have some, some wordings improved or something, some editing and then we are good to go. Awesome. Yeah, we need to promote the team's work. Yeah. And also we still trying to find new members for our team. So it's also something we talked about in this meeting. Maybe we, we have some, some meet up in our city. And, and cloud native meet up and we want to promote this localization there. Meetups are, I think, great place to do that and maybe the blog post is like another resource that you can share it right because it's like you say it and then like, people can read it later on. It's nice to have several options to kind of. Yeah, I know that's always a problem finding contributors, but yeah, we have to keep on it right. Okay, great. So, now it's like open discussion time as someone added the brainstorming to promote glossary contributors. Okay, yeah. I opened each discussion item. From brainstorming to promote G&CF glossary contributors as well as maintainers. I think we can use this discussion to gathering and bring folks who have, who have idea regarding how to promote contributors in especially for G&CF cloud native glossary. So please feel free to add any ideas if you have any nice pro promotional ideas. So it is just for sharing this discussion item. You can find one idea from Victor. You can see some ideas from Victor in that comment. I think we don't have to discuss today, but feel free to check new comment here and add more ideas here. And maybe, David, when you go to the meetup, you know, and like if that was successful or what was successful that's something that you could add here right hopefully you find something that works and resonates. And then as we try things out, it would be a good place to gather best practices right that we have learned. Yeah, it's, there are a lot of contributors who are not the perfect contributors because they're not there yet and then like but having the people who are who have the knowledge they're really just like it's a really difficult situation. It's like, I don't know. Well, we had a few. Yeah, well, I guess that I think that we can add here to I think like we had some, I'm going to look into agenda and I think that there was like a folder that I started. I'm going to add those things in here too so there is that's like our source source of truth to say. And we should keep building on that and maybe make it like a, like a regular point where we kind of remind people that that is there and if they have any new ideas, because otherwise it's going to. People are going to forget and then six months later we're like oh we're all missing contributors right. Anything else. I'm sorry. Oh yeah, even though if you share any idea in select, I will bring it to this question so that you can easily check. I mean, get our ideas from there. Okay, that's all from my side. And oh she just wrote can and by the way you can just unmute yourself and just chime in. Feel free to do that. We're not much of a big group so if you can write a block block about the process progress. Do you mean. What's also like what, what's like currently happening like from where we got started and what is the current progress right now in the glossary, and we can write a blog about it and publish it on social media and like in the cubicle newsletter. You mean like where the glossary as a whole is not. Yeah, what is currently happening in the glossary open source project. Yeah, if there is a volunteer to write that we can do that. Yeah. Well yeah I mean like if we like what the blog post it has to be like I don't know like we could. It's a it's a it's an idea would you be willing to get that started. We would have to see if we have enough like things that are interesting to say but probably we do we just have to think about it. I would love to because this is my first meeting and I have just started so I have to look into glossy project more like what's happening right now. Okay, great. Yeah I didn't recognize your name so welcome. Oh goshy. So on which team are you. No, I just started, like I just created my first issue like can we add a new team regarding admission controller so I have to start with the localization team. Okay, yeah but with a localization team you said so which I'm from India so mostly I will start with Hindi localization. Okay with the Hindi. Okay, good. Okay great so welcome. And yeah, feel free to get started and then we can like all like once we have like a draft, we can build on that and then. I'm sure there are like cool things that we can say and just we just have to think about it right now from the get go I but it's a good idea we should we should try to get the word out. Anything else for the open discussion. I have one question one doubt when you are talking about new contributors, because what is the relation about the grocery with culvernets I don't know if we have hyperlinks to the concepts because for example I received a lot of questions I think about how to start it to be a contributor in culvernets. My answer is that if you want to. You are a beginner you can start with the grocery because it's more easy that they go into the culvernets and it's like I is so so some connections between the people that is wanted to start to contribute to go to the grocery because they. They have the attention on culvernets, I don't know how is it we have some that my question we have some relations that hyperlinks we think we use it inside so we are separate programs. We are we are kind of separate but not yeah I mean we're all part of the same ecosystem we're separate in that way that our teams don't necessarily collaborate but we have we're also joined at the same time is a lot of the. The teams localization teams are also the localization teams for the culvernets one but there is no coordination or anything. I think, like, interlinking is good. The only thing. The only issue is that core, the Kubernetes stocks is very advanced right so, and our goal is to make things very easy so I don't know like whenever it makes sense we should link to it but I think like probably a lot of the things that are in the culvern is docs and glossary are too advanced for what we're looking for so they're probably not too many opportunities to do that, or maybe it's too detailed for where people are at. So, I mean we should definitely do it it's just like I think that's more the issue it's that the glossary is more really like an, and not for contributors but for people who want to learn it it's an entry level of course right that is for people who have no knowledge yet or are just new to kubernetes to kubernetes not to the cloud native to cloud native in general. And then that will help them to read more technical articles right so I feel that's kind of the. But I think. Yeah. Yeah, in some level that as you say we always has beginners, even in kubernetes that they're trying to read and they, for example they don't know how is that the center or the terms that it's already the glossary and that's we started on the basic hyperlinks to the glossary from kubernetes. I don't know if we have this initiative is only that. You mean linking from the kubernetes stocks to the glossary. Yeah, I think that probably makes more sense because there are probably more words that come up in the kubernetes glossary that are also covered in in our glossary. Some of the definitions that is there that it's not in the in detail inside of kubernetes, but we can refer to our glossary because we explain, especially for the new people and we have some connection and also more attractions for us. It's like wing wing for everyone. I don't know how the, I know we have people from localization teams but like who like how does the actual the English kubernetes glossary work. So good, do you know anything about that. Well, they happen to have the maintainers, but I don't know if you mean, who is the responsible. They have a, I'm sure they have a slack on the corners. Yeah. Well, some of them because they participate in the kubernetes documentations but if you want to to start this. Visual mapping or hyperlink to work together is is that some words common words like we have all the definitions in the glossary we started to go today. Yeah, I think if you know people it would be great to ask if they have an interest in that, like if they if they would be open to that I think they would be but let's ask them. And that could actually be a issue that we could create for real beginners right because it's like going to the kubernetes docs finding words that are covered there and then hyperlinking. It would be like a real beginners contributor task, right because it's like, as a beginner coming up, like writing a definition is really difficult but like linking to that that's like something that people could do. So I'm sure we would find volunteers but I would want to ask them first. I mean I'm sure we could do it as well as well but any thoughts from anyone else. I think it's a good idea. I'm actually a long term contributor for kubernetes website. And I, I actually already shared our tasks, I mean, our status of, I mean, cloud native glossary to kubernetes website community, so very aware of it. And maybe we can just open up here to add our grocery website address in kubernetes website glossary page. And maybe we can simply add a link and some description for cloud native glossary. And based on that PR, the reviewers and approvals, and maybe she could leave. She could join for the discussion. So, maybe you can start by opening up here to add the links. Maybe Carol can help opening up here, or I can also open up here. Yeah, definitely I can talk with the kubernetes maintainers about this and what they think if we can collaborate and, and sharing this lack about this and try to officialize this with an issuable request if they everyone is. Would you like to start the PR as well or that so called suggestive Carol. Any initiative that if you think is a good idea, I can. I think it's a great idea. I think that way it really makes sense. And it would also help to get because more traffic to our or like race awareness about the glossary. And when the people started, it's going to governments, they are new people that also don't know about so many terms that we are helping in the glossary that makes sense, especially for me, and also new contributors for us. And it is very technical so it's like if you're new to kubernetes and want to read the docs it's pretty overwhelming. It's right. Hello. Yeah. Yeah, just this is a very good question from from point from cattle. And, in my opinion, we can think about, we can extend this for all projects because, for example, you have a PR to start the contribution for observability. So other projects talk about observability, permit use, etc, etc. So, not the only carbonates is documentation requires access, or use glossary to define key points to more. So, can I say, global, globally, concepts, then other person also needs so maybe, I don't know if you, if there is some kind of. Talk with the other person, but maybe the CNCF team that are in glossary contributors, I don't know, can start a kind of relationship with other projects. I don't know. I'm just saying that we need to avoid, first of all, we need to avoid duplicate and duplicate efforts and need avoid also, not only duplicate but have a difference of concepts. For example, if someone from contributor for permit use write something about observability in general and not about permiters per se, but in general about observability. Then someone from tunnels, write something like a stimulus about observability. This kind of global general, sorry, general concept could be, could be touched in glossary and be replicated in all projects, documentations to avoid. There is a relation, relationship between the projects. As I said, when you look to, as Carol said, when you look at covenants you have much more documentation, you have much more terms, concepts, etc. So we need to help do this relationship between the both projects, documentation for covenants and glossary, but if you, we are growing the glossary with concepts and terms general terms will touch concepts that all the projects are working and created documentation will define concepts for them that may be not only a duplicate but also has difference, is don't converge to something. So I think that we can maybe the group can start to talk to think about something as a best practice for documentation that allows bring to the general concepts to glossary and things for documentation will consult the open PRs with concepts, general concepts and glossary and use a specific project or the specific terms in the documentation and make a reference. I don't know if this makes sense, but it's something like Carol said, extending what Carol said. Yeah, I think that linking is definitely something that we should be doing. I don't know if into like, but between like things that are like open source and write that, as we said we had that discussion know to proprietary pages and mentions. I don't know if I've followed completely with the, what you meant with not. I mean there's going to be duplication always because people are always going to write their own definitions or how, you know, but what we want to do with the glossary is that there's one source of truth or one thing where everyone can contribute that is like easy and that is project and product agnostic and so on and it's like and everyone is welcome to contribute there and I think like it should. We should like different resources should link to the glossary as well because like a lot of people are new. And we want to make sure that they, as they learn about it, can find good and easy to understand definitions. Okay. If that's all I would like to move to the Montana discussion if that's okay. Anything else. And, okay. In that basically is like if people want to drop off. That is totally fine you can also stick around. We merged two of our meetings and I also have the Montana meeting here so there are some internal things that we need to discuss. So, yeah, feel free to do to get a few minutes back or just stick around. Okay, so go. You had something. But the number of approvers. Yes. Recently, she requested to add a little folk. If I say his name correctly, I'm not sure, but try to add new approval for Spanish team. Spanish team already had four approvers already. So, in order to add additional approval, they need to replace one of the approvers from Spanish team. So, I just thought, even though some approvers are not active during few months, I think they are still variable contributors so that I hope to discuss somehow how to keep them in their position. So that's the reason why I brought extending the maximum number of approvers for each localization team. Currently it is four, but my suggestion is increasing it to five. So that localization team can have more approvers, even though some of them are not very active, but it is a way to keep them in their position and make them come back again. I already shared this message to maintainers channel. So I hope to know the opinions from Noah and Catherine. I think she already agreed on that. I think it's fine because it's like, first of all, I think it should be up to the localization teams like as well to decide right we definitely do not recommend for people to have 15 approvers because it gets messy right but I think sometimes if they, I think it's good to restrict it to a lower number at first and then as they are in their flow and know how things work because sometimes maybe someone is gone for two months or on a project and can't do but they know they're going to be back you don't want to have to like put them like remove them and put them back again if they know they're going to come back right, but I think so. And if one person is gone for, and you only had for a few months and you only have three approvers it gets difficult with the because you're really depending on these two other persons and if they're not available for a week then you cannot merge something so it becomes a bottleneck. So, I think it's fine. I mean, I think each team should this will discover what works for them right now. Yeah, I agree. I agree on that the localization teams should should decide that on their own. And if they think that that will be beneficial because it doesn't scale otherwise or they are blocked otherwise then it's totally fair I guess. And maybe what we can do is like when a team is new, we restrict it to the four or maybe or the new one would be five. And then we say like okay after six months you know like once you kind of because they sometimes when they're new they want to make everyone you know because everyone is excited and every, but you don't know how engaged people are and then maybe after six months or more. And then you will figure it will, you will figure out who is going to be doing more work and less work and then they can decide who should actually if they should include more people or not. Because I think the reason we restricted is because at the beginning everyone is excited and everyone wants to make everyone right. But that. I just agree with you. So, initially, Paul is enough and based on request from the localizing ongoing localization team, we can extend the national approach. Yeah. Yeah, once they're established I feel like they should decide what they want to do right and the beginning we restrict them but just a little bit but then it's like okay you know best what works for you so okay. Okay, thank you I will share it to Spanish team and the PR. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Next time. Yep. Okay, go ahead when you put it in there because I have opinions here. Oh, okay. Yeah, next item is about new term suggestion for public cloud. You can check that issue. The contributor suggested the public cloud tone as a new term. And the reason why contributor the contributor open that issue is the contributor is actually working on defining virtual private cloud. The contributors thought in order to define the VPC. Public cloud time is required. That's the reason why the contributor. Open that issue. Actually, in my opinion. Current to the VPC virtual private cloud tone. Can be defined, regardless of the public cloud private cloud and any other cloud. And I think if it is just a cloud computing then we can. I mean, we can just refer the cloud computing for defining VPC. So I actually commented on that issue already, but I hope to hear other maintainers voice. And yeah, I already know the gasoline idea. Well, I just saw like, because VPC was still awaiting triage and people were signing up front and we never kind of decided if it should be part of the and I was like, oh, because I was like, didn't we don't remember deciding that it should be part so it's like the first discussion, the first thing that we should probably, I think we discussed that we started talking about it but then we never come came to a conclusion. And then, so I think we already take this triage accepted for VPC tone. It was, I just looked and am I crazy. Oh, yeah, we already gave. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, then I was like I was looking somewhere else. Okay, so we did. Then it's wrong. Forget it. I remember correctly, reason why I did the agreed to add VPC is that VPC service a little bit hard time to understand for beginners, but actually we are very often use that time, even though it. The term itself, or it's made by AWS maybe, but this is many close service providers are using that term in as general term. I think that's the reason why I agreed to add. To the close. Let's just get rid of this then because this is wrong. I, so my opinion on it is, why public loudest and very basic concept. So it would, it would be fair to accept it as well, not, not necessarily to to define the VPC one but if we said yes to VPC, then I guess it would be fair to also say yes to public cloud, even though it's super basic but I can imagine that that people want to see how it may be what problem it solves regarding to a private cloud, for example, I mean, so, maybe having this this this thing and the contract windows both in our glossary would be nice thing so I guess my, my, my feeling would say to approve it, rather than to not approve it. Yeah, it's kind of a little bit like data center right. So that is super basic, but we still have included it. Yeah, what I think what I think it's it's a little bit a little bit more advanced and data center because I don't know data centers this data center but public cloud you have to public and the private part so you can really have this. Yeah, I have the contrast of those but it's just that's just what I think about it I mean, no strong opinion. Yeah, just a God feeling more or less. Yeah, actually we already have a cloud computing definition. From that definition, I'm not sure what kind of content can be added in new public cloud tone. Oh, oh yeah, sure. So, yeah, so cloud computing basically. Yeah, okay. Computing basically refers to public cloud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, I see. So, my concern is about what to say in public. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't have in mind that that's a cloud computing one was, yeah, more describing the public cloud. But yeah, with that information, I guess, we would rather not accept it. Because you're right. What, what would we say about cloud computing about public cloud which is not already included in the existing term. Yeah. Hello, please, please to share your idea. Can I, can I talk to just mention to you. Yeah, no. Okay, so. But I will send it by me. No, so just asked you to just invited you to talk. Go ahead. Okay. I didn't try to access issue 1707 to look at look around what is the suggestion public cloud. But so there is a very, very good definition come from NIST. This is the institute office of story and technology that could be reference or use it in public private or any kind of definition of cloud. There is something that is disconnected from any provider, because come from standard is to do. It could be used in this kind of general concept. I can send the number of the definition for you. Okay, thank you for the definition information and actually I also aware of that definition from NIST. And yeah, if we define cloud public cloud as a new term in glossary and maybe the way to define the tone is a little bit different. As you can see we have three sections, what it is. And how it acts. It is a little bit different to just the term definition provided by NIST. But I know it is very good reference. Also, as you probably said, public cloud is very rare established term already with very short and simple term. So the reason why I am concerning adding this public cloud term in glossary is that what can we add more additional information regarding the cloud computing public cloud. Okay, would it make sense to maybe have this cloud computing slash public cloud or something like that? Actually cloud computing is paradigm or concept and it can be deployed for public way or private way if we implement cloud computing in public way and for the public service then we call it public cloud. And if some companies are building their own cloud computing inside then we say it is just private cloud, right? I have a suggestion to make. What if we just extend the cloud computing what it is section by just adding one or two sentences stating that you can realize the cloud computing concept through using a public cloud provider like AWS blah blah or like using something a private cloud provider like I don't know what it is we spear or whatever they No examples we decided so. Okay, then I just said the exact. Yeah, okay, and then we could we could we could like reference, reference the VPC. If we want in that in that talk computing article or the other way around we just reference from VPC. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I agree. That's a nice idea. I think we all agreed to not accept public cloud new time. And we improved the term cloud computing, so that it can somehow show deployment type of cloud computing public cloud and private cloud. Okay, I guess maintainers agreed. Yeah. Okay, I guess we all agreed. Thanks and we can go to the next item. Catherine maybe. Yeah, so I updated observability as a reminder. Observability the definition was kind of a mix between the property and the tools. Right and so observability should be the property because like observable systems can be observed by a different tools. So because it is a property, it only has one section. I used like most of it came from the definition that was already there, provided it's just like slightly like formulated that it is a property that allows you to do those things instead of saying because it was like a little bit of a mix and I feel like it must be clear that one is a property and the other ones are tool that leverage that property. Yeah, that would be for technical ready for technical review, and I put our back I know no you've been you started that but it kind of got a little stale so if we could kind of get that. I just, I just dragged the task on my to do list and increase the priority. Like I said, I'm, I have a hard time to catch up with all those things but it's on my radar now again. So I will see that I finished that one. Okay, cool. So, because they're not too many that need to be brought to the finish line but would be. I had it on my on my on my radar. So I forgot about it. Yeah. Okay, cool. And about the observability definition is that I mean, maybe we would better to differentiate observability and monitoring itself. I know the top itself is property can be property but people try to use observability is more advanced way than just monitoring. So, since in cloud native domain, people try to use the observability tone and kind of advanced monitoring way. So maybe you develop to say something about relationship with monitoring just monitoring. In my simple opinion, and I try to comment Catherine's improvement in trying to comment review your PR. Somehow, how, how to reflect, I try to check how to reflect the differentiating the monitoring and observability. But you have not yet because I'm like you will you mean. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that that would be good to kind of have that because it is similar. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, so, yeah, just just add your comments or suggestion and I'll weave that in and then I also asked if you or could review it so no eyes off the hook maybe and then can look at our back instead and I think we can get that updated hopefully soon. Anything else. Okay, I think we can wrap it up. Thank you for all we've got a new visitor when we're just wrapping up. Thanks for those who's a stick stick around even for the maintainer session. So, thank you, and we shall see you in a month. Bye bye.