 a lot of work on silence and I think that's going to be what she's going to talk about among the solution. Yeah, forget about the jokes aside when I'm going to talk but anyway so I'm going to talk about something that is quite not related to Hacker spaces and lab work which is kind of unfortunate because we do a lot of lab work here with Adeline around food and fermentation and stuff here just fermentation godhub club here in Hacker space we have fermentation bang here in the fridge and we are talking about the internet of microbes and having fun seeing that the internet of things is bullshit and stuff like that so yeah that's what we do here but I'm going to talk about something else today about soil and quantified diets so so-called diet hackers how people use datum and all sorts of weird DIY techniques and gadgets to to hack their diet so before I start I will said that I will do workshop today but I know it's quite late and you might be tired and everything but it would be great if we do at least a little bit of something so I have these cards that I created last night and maybe they're stupid maybe they're fun I don't know but we'll use them for the workshop so like pass them as a teaser right so maybe it will just impress somebody and then he will stay for the workshop anyway so let's start with this I hope I will not talk too long so yeah I would like to first frame the whole quantified diet narrative within what I do so I do PhD at NUS and I'm speculative designer and I'm writing out so-called edible speculation so how we can use speculative design to make critical inquiry into food system to make people talk about food issues current food issues and your future food issues and I'm talking about digital food cultures which is like password that I use basically to talk about the everyday food practices like cooking growing eating shopping is as influenced by digital technologies and all sorts of new digital devices online services mobile food apps IOT devices that are surrounded by both these like promissory narratives of you know if you use technology we will be smarter we will be more sustainable healthier and our diets will be more fun more participatory we will learn about stuff and everything will be open and great at the same time obviously it's not just like that right so there are many limitations of these food tech activities such as like data breaches and surveillance or this whole thing with human food relationship and how is it basically getting like more loose and loose along with these technologies how much we rely on technology in practice so like common and natural as eating and food practices so this is like the framework that I'm using for the for the quantified diets trying to talk about not only the individual impacts of the digital technologies on individual consumer but also on society and also the political impacts in terms of the data breaches and environment implications so what are quantified diets I mean you probably know about that right but I will just summarize it quickly so quantified diets are basically or people who are doing that are using all sorts of self tracking devices and online data sharing services to track their calories track how much food they eat what food they eat and also their own bio data like how much calories they burn how long they sleep how many steps they take and try to design their diets accordingly so really taking this sort of like engineer based approach to how to really structure your diet in a very precise way and along with that basically there was this huge like upsurge of personalized diets that are like very precise very restrictive as well whereby people need to have the data they need to have the exact information about what they eat because they put deliberately like restrictions on them on themselves right what to eat and what not so very popular is now the ketogenic diet for instance which basically says that you should not eat any carbohydrates any sugar so you need to do this very meticulous activity of tracking the food for all carbohydrates and checking labels and everything so that's one of the very popular right now also nutrigenomics which Perl recovered recently so that's the DNA based diet so if you do the direct to consumer nutrigenomic tests such as Swiss 23 and me you can design your diet accordingly right so according to your genes so what your genes like to eat and what not so what are you likely to burn quickly or process quickly and what not and the same is then with microbiomics which Ilya probably knows much more about than me it's the same basically how to design your diet to really like please your gut flora and become some sort of gut gardener you know like to eat to build your gut garden basically to eat in order to like have faster metabolism and process food faster so why do people do that I mean obviously we are what we eat right so if we want to be good people we should eat good food so these people are trying to really like you know do the best diet that they consider the best and that's obviously the big problem what is the best diet right and because there are like so many different opinions but the quantified dieters are having this mathematical based approach that if we can count it we can be more sure that you know we can control for potential like risks and everything so it's not really new thing actually so already in 1991 there was this famous and great hilarious book The Hacker's Diet written by John Walker who is the founder of Autodesk and he was basically saying like you know I am like you know CEO of this huge company and we are using this engineering processes to solve all kinds of situation and I am just fat you know and it's ridiculous I don't know how to solve it so I was thinking how to apply you know what I do in my job on myself so he came up with this excel sheet system whereby he was tracking everything he eats and what how many calories he burns it was very like clumsy in 1991 but there are more editions of the book I think in 2005 in the latest edition he's like you know bringing it forward and forward but anyway okay sorry orange but since then basically this whole area of quantified diets progressed a lot since the first Hacker's Diet book so probably you have heard about quantified self which is this community of people self-trackers who are tracking not only food and diet but all kinds of activities so how many hours they eat and tracking their athletic performance work performance even sexual performance and trying to improve themselves then there are like the more radical people like the body hackers and transhumanists from longest city for instance people who are going beyond so experimenting with body implants and also psychedelic micro dosing or no tropics smart drugs to enhance their cognition like above the standards average and then the 23 and me which is the DTC genomics or u-biome which is the company that kind of became popular for doing DTC microbiomics and then there was this quantified diet project which was basically the largest randomized trial of these popular digital diets so far whereby I don't know how many volunteers sign up for that and they were basically following one diet for some time tracking it and then the goal was to compare which diet is the best for weight loss which diet is the best for that and that and that and that so that was basically like the timeline of or timeline like how it how it progressed till now and now we have soil and so that's what I'm going to talk about now so soil and is this weird invention that was done by this computer software engineer I mean Robert Reinhardt in 2013 and it became like his kitchen experiment whereby he was kind of not really happy with what he eats and he was saying that you know I spent too much money and I don't have time and I'm really shitty cooker so I don't know so I was thinking similarly as as Walker from Autodesk like how can I improve it if I'm engineer right so he created this sort of like nutritional replacement this drink and he created it in a way that it basically should contain all nutrients according to USDA diet recommendations that human body needs every day to stay healthy which is very generalized but he just took it as a standpoint right so he came up with Soylent which should be like the full food replacement that was the initial idea so you can stop eating food because all of these issues because you know we are anthropocene oh my god we are killing the world around us just by the fact that we exist and we eat so he was saying that yeah fine you know like let's destroy agriculture and everything let's just drink soylent because that's perfect so he published in 2013 like the results of his experiment on his blog mostly harmless and he was obviously like super enthusiastic saying that you know I feel like Superman and everything is great and my hair is better and my skin is shiny and it's just because I stopped eating shit and I am drinking my Soylent and that's perfect fine um he started finding campaign and he got over like one million USD through the campaign so it became like the most successful food related Kickstarter campaign like crowdfunding campaign ever so he apparently I mean obviously attracted a lot of angel investors and then he started this monstrous business in Silicon Valley whereby it's now basically like proprietary business Soylent is selling I don't know what is what what is the numbers but they are just selling Soylent commercially to more and more and more customers but anyway at the same time in 2013 when he started he said that oh you know I believe in open source so my Soylent formula is open source as well so I'm going to share it with the online world and you guys can tweak it and you can like customize personalize the Soylent formula according to your body needs which kind of like actually caught on so people started doing that and soon after there was this DIY Soylent website where people started sharing their own formulas their own recipes that they basically tweaked according to their preferences and like for now there is over 10 000 recipes actually for DIY Soylent so it's really becoming bigger and bigger and this whole like Soylent user community appeared and that was the time when I started like being interested about that because first when I first saw Soylent obviously I thought it's bullshit but then when I saw this DIY community it became kind of interesting for me so I'm more interested in the DIY Soylent I don't really know so much about the proper business I'm not part of the company I don't sell their products anything like that so you know don't ask me about the official Soylent I'm interested in the DIY community which is really interesting because you know the first idea was let's have Soylent a simplified meal so you don't have to think about food you have one thing that you drink every day and you don't have to shop you don't have to think about that that's just easy and then with this DIY Soylent website people started creating all sorts of recipes based on all these diets right so there is ketogenic Soylent low carb like high protein athletic Soylent organic natural solid kosher halal savory like cheap versions even people are using food stamps in USA to do to do Soylent so it's official now so basically you know from the first idea to like really simplify meals it became this like picky eater heaven that's like you know it's a parade of like freaky diet basically diet which is interesting so you know you have natural Soylents which is I mean this example of you see that there is most like whole food stuff so even if Soylent as you have probably seen here on the first picture is made of things that don't really sound like food it's mostly you know powders and all sorts of supplements and micronutrients and the micronutrients are mostly like flour and vanilla ice protein like the weightlifting thing but people started doing also you know Soylent that don't sound so so crazy but there are also no tropics Soylents so no tropics are the smart drugs right so you can see here that this is full of like all sorts of stuff that would probably keep you up whole night long I have a lot of no tropics with me today for the workshop so we can also stay up whole night long if you want but okay I started basically in 2014 I started this study around Soylent so I'm doing content analysis of the Soylent group online Soylent group of the discussion forums and the DIY Soylent site and I'm interviewing the people the DIYer so far I interviewed over like 68 people and I'm trying to like ask them a bunch of questions better not go into details but now I would just like you know few examples of why the hell are the people doing that right so why would you deliberately give up food and start just you know sustaining yourself on weird powder so some people are saying that you know it's super convenient actually you know it's less expensive it's more nutritious and it's less time consuming to be on Soylent than anything else other people are saying that you know I'm just so bad in like I know nothing so about food so I can escape this whole like cycle of eating frozen food or fast food or snacking through Soylent other people are going like more far with that thing that oh no I actually want to really you know like become superhuman so I'm trying to design my Soylent in a way that it will really improve me so it will be it will be really somehow contributed over the normal level of like eating food some people are also talking more about political stuff such as this information overload in media about what is healthy and what is not this whole media massage about what you should eat and what you should not eat and companies lobbying in what is healthy and what not and all sorts of like campaigns that are kind of not very honest how to say it politically correct and some people are also mentioning some Soylent dieters also mentioning their distrust in the food policy authority saying that you know look at the dietary guidelines that we have like it's just five years beyond the research current nutritional research and that's obviously because in the US for instance you know you have this huge corn and soy industry lobby that's carbohydrate so obviously you can't you know change the dietary guidelines and say consume less carbohydrates because who is paying the whole USDA right yeah the corn and soy industry so this whole like little bit maybe conspiratorial narrative is in the community as well and then also the whole quantified self self-tracking ideal of the Soylent you can track your diet much easier because you have the exact numbers right of everything so you can really like count every single meal every single milligram and gram of what you eat and and you can like act on that so that's that's one other reason and then obviously also people who have allergies of some some special dietary needs like I interviewed this guy who had this um phobia maybe there is some like clinical term for that that he is afraid of chewing so he can't chew stuff so Soylent is great for him right but there are also people with like surgeries after some injury or something like dental surgery so they can't chew so there are like many reasons why people do that also the geeky pleasures like you know the fun of like mixing the Soylent like you know just come home from work and you have fun with doing weird stuff with powders so many different motivations but basically what does the Soylent group says about digital food cultures right so I mean on one hand the Soylent experiments are actually quite interesting because people are sharing the results of their experiments in the online community which is open to everybody so we can get interesting data about how the human bodies are reacting to different diets right they are voluntarily experimenting on their bodies which is not not everybody's willing to do so right so it's quite interesting group for some maybe future clinical trials whereby in terms of recruitment right you have this like great group of geeks who are willing to do something and test stuff and you know stop eating food and being on Soylent for like long time so that's interesting as well so basically it may be you know in the positive way seen as some sort of amateur everyday food science where the people do research together share the data and try to figure out what kind of nutrients work what kind of nutrients don't work together what is good for them what is not good for them what is good for others so many people I was specifically measuring in the research the nutrition literacy which is like your knowledge and skills in terms of food and nutrition of the people and most of the people were saying that you know like yeah I really didn't know much about nutrition before but along with Soylent I basically pushed myself to learn because in order to make the DIY powder for myself I had to read a lot about and we are even going through this nutrition literacy test where I was presenting the food label and then like letting the people to read it out for me and obviously everybody was able to do that right so there is one interesting educational potential in this community amateur everyday food science work so that can be seen in the optimistic way as some sort of opening of the food black box which means this whole like information overload and wake food policies and the industrial lobby and all kinds of data that we have and still nobody knows what is good to eat so obviously like Soylent community will not give us any answer what is good to eat right but at some sort of step in like people trying to discover it by themselves but obviously there are also some negative things about all that so first the social aspects right like people are basically most of the people I interviewed say that you know I no longer need to get out of my desk in work I just sit there and I work it's great I can work more like yeah how many human faces have you seen during the day but no just my Soylent fine so that's some sort of like that's not just Soylent right that's this whole like using technologies and apps and online services to order food and basically cook food and everything so the sort of digital commensality where we just stop eating together with each other and talking about food with each other but doing everything online and with help of some algorithm of some technology needs to some sort of maybe food anonymization maybe Marx would kill me if he hears me right now but you know if he said like you know like the last things the human things that remain for the worker is sex and food well along with Soylent the food is kind of gone as well right so it's some way from gastronomy to sustenance so from quality of eating to quantity of precision or something like that and then also there is the health safety aspect of course because the people are experimenting with that but it doesn't mean that they are not making fails obviously we all do fails trial and error right but if you do trial and error repeatedly with your body in terms of consuming pure powders you may actually end up in trouble so there is some health risk about that and there is no like legal way how to control it now the question is if we want to control it we should not try it we should let the people do what they want to do but then the responsibility needs to be somehow taken care of and the Soylent community is online so the people don't meet in hacker space such as we do so there is no like let's say crowdsourced fund for instance for people who would get in trouble and need to let's say pay for some medical treatment because they just you know screw it up with Soylent so it's very like vile open area whereby you know it's very like this extremely libertarianism whereby some sort of community work where the people don't really see each other in physical world it's kind of like vague still and then also data security issues so as I said the the forum is open to everybody so whatever kind of data or self-tracking data you share potentially anybody can see right so let's say that I will share the results of like my Soylent diet but I will also include my sleeping patterns and my mood and everything and then somebody finds it like let's say you know the head of our department will find that I am really moody and sad and I'm crying all the time and I'm drinking a lot and be like yeah what does it mean for me right so or like for your employer or something like that so that's the data security thing and then obviously the digital divide right so we are talking about food so if food is meant to be for all Soylent is definitely not for all because you need to be online you need to have the technology in order to eat so that really like it's very exclusive so the question is who should have the right to define what is good to eat right and we don't have any answer like I don't have any answer obviously Soylent people don't have any answer but it's interesting just you know to use Soylent to open all these issues and talk about it so basically what is Soylent for me is a very neat data visualization tool because if you think about it Soylent is just sort of like Lakmus paper it shows us it tells us a lot about the current food culture how people eat both in terms of the social aspects people are deliberately giving up food and all the gastronomy pleasures and social aspects in favor of doing something that is less risky than fast food or something like that or like convenient or fast or easy and also about the nutritional trends because if you look at the DIY Soylent site you see all the weird recipes and you see even like the numbers so how many people how many vegan recipes how many low carb ketogenic not notropic recipes are there so you know if you do some proper data analysis of that you might might come with some results of like some dietary trends obviously it will be skewed a lot right but still so it can also probably be used which is interesting for me as well as some sort of speculative design tool how to talk about future diets which is the carts that are maybe somewhere like circulating around and which will also be part of the workshop so it's some sort of like edible design right how to talk about the digital food cultures and that leads to the workshop idea so if we still are like up for that my idea was that we can create some sort of DIY Soylent recipe we don't really need to necessarily we won't create all kind of ideas that we come up with because I brought a lot of stuff but not all the stuff and it would be great if we can think about some sort of recipes that would reflect either like your dietary preferences so I would like to ask each of you or I don't know some working groups or something like that to create some sort of you know like draft of Soylent recipe according to some diet your preferences or maybe your political opinions or maybe to embody some sort of the digital food issues that I was talking about or some diet of the future and I also created the carts right that are like going around right now which you can use as inspiration so you can also design Soylent recipe for one of the like future diet clans that are on the on the carts and I brought some papers so I mean I really don't want to be top down and push you like now take pen and you know write down recipe for me just if you want to do it do it if not not and also there is this website the DIY Soylent which is now completefoods.co it was formerly called theivisoylent.com but guess what the open source Soylent business started applying the trademark right so basically nobody can use the word Soylent anymore so the whole community had to be rebranded for complete foods which is yeah that's what happens right Soylent green right yeah I know but he has the trademark on that in terms of food product so that's that's the problem and I'm going to run in July I still don't have the date confirmed another workshop with really more focused on the cart so if you are around Singapore it would be great and interested in that it would be great if you come along so this is just a few examples of workshops that I did before what we can do today as well so this was organic Soylent done in the Institute of Crypto Anarchy in Prague Yeah that was of course it's you know the joke is just it will never get obsolete like Soylent green is made of people of course this was done in Hacker space in Prague in Burm Love and that was just we just used some food coloring and this was workshop in San Jose where we just wanted to we were talking about everyday food science and we just wanted to bake cookies and you know try to figure out if we can do it as amateurs food amateurs and as you can see we ended up with green cookies again so it's kind of really catchy and here in Singapore we did this workshop with Adeline as part of spot and grow which was like two weeks long workshop where we spotted in Little India here and we were growing food and talking about the avi bio and stuff and we were trying to create like soil and bio soil and from local stuff it was quite funny because we had friends from live pet Hacker space from Indonesia who were supposed to bring crickets we wanted to use crickets as like the cricket flower right like the source of protein but for some reason they just I don't know either the crickets got confiscated at the airport or they just somehow they ate it I wouldn't be surprised okay and that was actually this was a very ambitious idea of me and my friend Denisa or I guess our friend Denisa because everybody probably knows her here for Nutrigenomic Soil and so we really used her pedestrian profile and we're trying to create very precise soil and recipe based on what is good for her and what not but it just ended up in google document and we never actually made it because like the google document now is like 13 or I don't know even more pages and we just I don't know we just got lost but if somebody will be willing to work on that it would be great but this is just you know to show you how you can use it as a speculative design tool wait why is it oh yeah so this was done as part of the stupid shit that no one needs hackathon with this friend of mine Enrique Encinas we're just making fun of how stupid the Soil and culture I mean he was saying that how stupid the Soil and culture is and it's called so he just you know he was eating Soil and very like an extrovert menu in front of everybody and another stupid shit that no one needs hackathon it was in noise bridge in San Francisco was this Soil and Dick and that's actually great like that that's not my work that's work of somebody else but I think it's really good it's kind of showing the gender issues with Soil and because you know Soil and is just this I can even like I have the consumer data so it's like bunch of white males working in Silicon Valley who are just you know eating Soil and so there is a lot of in the food study circles people are very critical about the gender issues with Soil and then what does it you know how does it push the gender issues in food okay I promise I will just put it away and this is another project Soil and Bunkett whereby Center for Genomic Astronomy this food hacking collective we're following the steps I mean the logic of Soil and and they just created very nutritionally precise meals that were really like you know giving you all the nutrients that you need per day but they created this very like festive Bunkett and serve it in the very slow way and trying to enjoy the qualities of food and everything like mocking the whole Soil and idea and yeah these are the cards so you've probably seen that so these are just you know like the diet cleanse as I call them whereby you can think how to design Soil and for them right so I mean yeah Nutri explorers for instance would probably use maybe not cockroach protein but cricket protein as sort of protein in in Soil and and yeah and this is yeah dumpster diving so maybe we can just you know one day go dumpster dive for Soil and ingredients and make very sustainable low food waste Soil and anyway that's that's it from me oh here are some ideas that I had as well if you want to talk about it today I was just thinking the last one is the most important I don't know why I am still like having dreams about how to make Soil and scoby some sort of you know the principle that he used with kombucha like having scoby that is actually self-reproductive growing in the jar and you have to feed it so have some sort of Soil and scoby that would be feeding itself and it would be like infinite that would be like yeah I know but that would be this infinite you know like food of the future or something like that anyway thank you that's it I think we can talk about and he was saying like what this product already exists it's probably meat going fish yeah so it's wondering you know anything about the difference there are many like the nutrient drinks right or juvity or how is it called all sorts of food replacements well this is the idea that you can use it every day as a full meter full meal replacement without any prescription and you can make it by yourself from very even like easy every day ingredients right so it's not really food that you get from pharmacy yeah there are actually some some recipes that are done according to you know the things that are in in all these like other food replacements like the nutrient drinks but I think the the only real difference really is that you are making this by yourself and maybe also the marketing that you know that was I mean yes like these because most of these food replacements are actually used to feed patients who are like under nutrient nourish right so usually they have either like a lot of sugar a lot of carbohydrates in order to have a lot of energy a lot of protein so as Adeline says like soil and should be can be like the normal used for normal consumption right actually I can show you the iwi website like and also just wanting to this is like from the complete foods to the iwi soil and formula website where you can actually create your own nutrient profile and say if you want to what kind of diet do you want to follow if you want to lose weight maintain weight or whatever so that's kind of more you know you can really customize it more than using like the using the nutrient drinks or stuff like that so if you look at the nutrient profiles here there is like tons of nutrient profiles of all the users following all sorts of yeah all sorts of goals and like you know calorie amounts per day and stuff like that so yeah that's that's about it so it really depends what you like and what not so what I brought this today is this DIY soil and done by a friend of mine from super body fuel which is like he's based in San Francisco as well so that's like ketogenic thing so that has zero not zero close to zero carbs and everything and I think that you will find it very disgusting if you haven't like you know because it does it's not sweet at all so people who like are not used to it they find it really disgusting and the most popular things are like the very the official Soylent the one in the bottle that tastes like cereal milk so people usually like it because it just tastes like slightly better milk so that's fine all these like more tricky DIY Soylents it really depends what is your goal if it is the nutrition which is the point of this or more the taste so you even have there is even like the commercial Soylent Stracciatella Soylent and Chocolate Cookies Soylent and you know it really tastes like milkshake so that oh yeah yeah yeah of course I mean I brought the stuff for the DIYing as well right so I mean I was trying to be on the DIY Soylent for the research purposes by myself and I was experimenting with all sorts of things like adding this not really because I was trying some horror stories yeah I was trying to do the whole food Soylent for some time so I was mixing all sorts of greens and vegetables and herbs that I found and then I found because I don't speak Chinese I found in Shenzhong some very interesting vegetable that I thought would be perfect for Soylent and it was not perfect so it was not really good yeah but you know you can you can this thing that's actually checked but that's basically green barley if you want to make Soylent green easily but that's fine it's kind of is but then you can also make savory Soylent which is interesting and like guys really I'm like walking pharmacy I have a lot of drugs here so really like yeah all these like nutrigenomic things yeah yeah yeah who where what what and it's called vitl vigra ah okay you know what there is here so wait I will just show you we just made this website this friends from Slovakia called blendrunner where by as you will see hopefully in a minute um yeah all these things are commercial so this is like overview of all the commercial Soylent companies that are out there right now so maybe the one that you are mentioning will be there as well as you can see it's not just Soylent right like there you can always see the country where is it from so there is joyland and the super body fuel and space nutrient station quill and there is one called vitl and maybe also one called vigra I'm not sure but there is like tons tons tons tons tons tons of food um given the sort of generally low cost at least for single uh yeah mil has anyone explored doing this in sort of your kitchens for the for yeah but then the idea I think is very cruel and bad because if we end up feeding yeah this just screams for yeah this approach which then has a whole lot of really unpleasant yes because basically that was the idea like this dystopian yeah yeah scenario if you are poor you will need to eat Soylent so remember one um interview we in in silicon valley in Sunnyvale was having this idea of you know I think that people in prison should actually be like forced to eat Soylent because we are paying them you know the tax system is actually paying for them to stay so I think they should eat Soylent you know they will be they will be probably healthier and whatever and it's just like I don't really think this is a good idea I guess it can and so we have soup kitchens and prisons yeah similar situations the the criteria are okay but you know you can ask these people to do stuff but not like restrict them from eating right there's different direction you can tell people to work extra because they are in prison but not to take out something as natural as eating from them well you know like the counterargument would be if you look at many people's diet how does it look it's probably not much worse the thing would be that there are no studies really supporting that right that's their arguments yeah yeah no but honestly the chewing sim and people are making solid Soylents already because I'm intrigued by the idea that that we're having a discussion on the morality of forcing people whom we have forcefully deprived of their liberty already already to now it's a moral discussion essentially right so the question now is if we could guarantee that this stuff is safe like properly safe and to guarantee that it is quantifiably better than the sort of standard diet that we're in prisons where would the moral argument land when it's still landing my body my mouth my gut I get to choose within limits or you know you eat this or water so one of the things that I think is that it points that if it's better efficiently and with other body problems dealt with fiber and chewing and so on and it's cheaper then you'll end up in a financially indefensible position with the guardians using any other means of feeding their their charges prisons being the obvious case but there are others where one person makes a decision on behalf of another that is being paid by attachments in schools right and so um so far so good except that you're sort of forcibly inserting the class divide that says we've got people who are going forward to eat so my counter argument is we're already there we're already at the class divide yeah we're already at the point where we have those who can eat well and those who due to whether it is capitalism or other forced economic circumstance just can't eat but they're enjoying what I mean junk food is tasty exactly rude copyist from the market before it ever shipped well actually well I mean my biggest concern with this actually is that um and then I I need to plan your product like you know forms of food or whatever but it's that uh we know that most of the kept these supplements that are out there these natural supplements like a lot of them are still in with that like and their fillers are natural and supplements but like they find that like most of it might be like right yeah so like you know like I mean there's so much trust involved in this in buying the commercial stuff right buying the commercial stuff exactly but if you do your own there's different story and like honestly beyond these weird experiments with Chinese herbs that I don't know what they are actually uh it's not so bad like if I was doing my recipe which was super simple without all weird stuff because I was still like eating apples and some you know fruits vegetables every day so I wasn't really worried and after all I just reduced eating all these like chips and chocolates and peanuts which I do all the time especially when I sit at the computer so it was not so bad so you know the question if if I'm doing better for my digestive system or worse I did it only for one month so that's not conclusive at all right maybe if I do it for one year I would be dead I don't know I mean I'm not saying that you will be dead and I'm not saying that it won't be healthy for you but we do a lot of unconsciousness from ready I mean yeah that's but that's like different some arguments are like oh you know look people are smoking so why why wouldn't they drink soylent but the idea is that soylent is the super food right very viable cigarettes everybody know it's bad for you so not really so you just use it as a replacement instead of snacks it's like more of a healthy snacking or so most people were replacing two meals daily and it was breakfast and lunch which kind of makes sense because then for the dinner you come home and you either have family dinner or you know eat with your friends so the social aspect was not so drastic in 2013 and 14 the beginnings there were many people who were like really obsessed about the idea of okay I will forget about food completely but now if you look at it it's just you know the hype curve it's just becoming much more mellow like people I mean my cousins for it for instance are drinking soylent as an extra meal because they are just both super huge and they are playing volleyball and everything so and they don't have money so you know that's some sort of like extra nutrition and it's not so like apocalyptic because they still eat but they use it as cheap source of calories beyond that there are so I interviewed few of them mostly those are the people coming from like the transhumanist background saying that you know I am offering my body for science and I'm going to test this and I want to just reduce all the bad stuff that you know is circulating through my body. Can you share what the major problems are for like gala and chewing is like what the other like dangers so called yeah I think is there any significant something I think that the gut microbiome the gut flora gut gardening is one issue because if you don't yeah because you're basically eating processed powder and supplement but there are things that you can use I'm not going to pick it up it's just if you use fiber like extra fiber source not probiotics but prebiotics like akachagam then theoretically you can solve this issue but back to microbiome actually like not even what you should feed and then you cut out a huge chunk of stuff I was just curious like what's the state on that even with simpler not so restrictive diets like the keto diet or something if random messes up your gut flora so you really have to be careful and then that's why I was curious yeah well the thing is that you know if how you mess up the gut flora right so with the ketogenic diet you change the gut flora so you basically kind of train it you build a garden in a way to be able to process certain nutrients and then the same like if you're a vegetarian for a long time and then you eat steak you will feel sick because you don't have the gut microbes to process so much protein at once but you can I don't want to be wrong on the numbers but I think that you can change your gut flora the gut entero type in one week if you eat differently like there are different gut entero types okay sorry you can kill it with antibiotics if you are on antibiotics but we really run past and you know I think you still want to do I mean it depends on you guys okay anyway I think it's a very very excellent discussion we come out like full circle and I is now I think past 10 40 and I think marketer has brought the stuff and the ingredients and you know she wants to you know get a well as interested to you know make soiled is that correct yeah it is actually honestly I would be really glad if you write down few of the recipe ideas just for me because I will probably use it as some sort of inspiration for other things um but depends if you want to or not and we can obviously make the soil and think I have the blender and everything so if you want to taste it you can just do it yeah so I think that we come to the end of the talk you're welcome to sit hang around you know mix soil and sounds like great party yeah