 Welcome. We have two sets of minutes to consider March 14th and April 4th, and we should probably do those separately, I'm guessing. Are we going to announce those here? Yeah, the guests. I think they're 21st. Are we going to ask the guests to introduce themselves? I'm sorry, what? Are we going to ask the guests to introduce themselves? I will. Okay. Mother. I thought that happened first. What was that, Liz? We would like to have the guests introduce themselves once again, please. I am Steve Ness. Thank you. Commander Budwin, Shelly Disjardin. Okay. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Welcome. Hello, Mr. Marnacre. Mark Harris. Mark Harris. Yep. Hi, Mark. Hi, Mark. George is on Zoom. And the Budget Committee. And the Budget Committee. Hi, George. Hi, George. Hi. Hard to tell who's up there. Okay. So we do have two sets of minutes, though. Is there a motion on the March 14th minutes? Don't everyone speak up at once? I was just clarifying which ones they were. I just read. Yeah, I will make a motion to approve the March 14th minutes. In a second, please. I was here, right? Yeah, I will second them. Okay. All in favor of approving the March 14th select board minutes, special select board meeting minutes. Please say aye. Raise your hand. Aye. Bridget, hand up. Yep. Thank you. We've approved those minutes. And the April 4th regular select board meeting minutes. Is there a motion? We have March 21st. Oh, I'm sorry. You should have done those together. That's all right. So we'll do them one at a time. The March 21st regular select board meeting minutes. Is there a motion? I'll move that. Okay. Moved by Liz. In a second? Yes, sir. Okay. All in favor of approving the March 21st minutes, please say aye. I raise your hand. Aye. We've approved them. Thank you. And last but not least, we need to review and amend the agenda for April 4th. Are there any amendments to the agenda? Hearing none, we will go ahead. First item on the agenda is a joint meeting with the town budget committee to discuss updating the capital improvement plan process document action possible. Thanks, Pierre. Yep. So as everybody I think knows, the capital improvement plan has three pieces. It has the questionnaire. It has the process document which we're discussing tonight. It has the capital asset inventory, which is that big workbook of all the assets that we know about in the town that have to be replaced replenished at some point in the future. So section eight of this planning process, the budget committee has expanded and we've done that basically to make it as easy as possible for anyone coming on to the committee to maintain the capital asset inventory. So the changes to section eight are specifically related to maintaining on an annual basis the capital asset inventory. So I should share with you what our thinking was as we went through that process of updating the capital asset inventory. So remember that the inventory is but one input to the annual budget process. And so when an asset has to be replaced, we either pay for it outright or we finance it. Mostly we've been financing things. So when something gets financed it moves into the budget into the debt service section that's applicable. Right now it's either under fire or under public works. Once that's done, we make an update to the capital asset inventory for that asset specifically to sort of zero out what I would call the current iteration of its estimated financing. And then we update the next year, fiscal year we believe the asset has to be replaced. So think of it this way that the budget in terms of capital expenditures and debt service is current commitment or actual spending while the asset inventory is estimated or future expenses. So that's the delineation we made as we moved through last year and began to move the financing of items like the dump truck was a good one. When we talked with Terinda, you know, what's the dump truck going to cost? Okay, fine. It was a little bit I think underestimated in the inventory but again the inventory was based on I think a 3% interest rate. So this is just the mechanics section 8. Mechanics of anybody who might come in cold, might not have a lot of experience in finance or working in budgets or spreadsheets. This is a pretty granular description of the steps they go through to update the inventory. Now we expect to make a few more changes to that inventory this year. Probably we'd probably expand section 8 to include adding a new asset if we have one, how to do that. And I think what we'll do is we'll probably ask for a volunteer on the budget committee to update the asset inventory this year other than me. I wrote the update to the document and see how we test drive it. So that again it's the lowest common denominator somebody could come in cold and basically know what they're doing because if anybody spent any time in that asset inventory it's not intuitively obvious what to do. Questions, comments? Thoughts? So I didn't see a copy of the suggested changes circulated to the select board. So I just thought maybe it would, I don't know if anybody's seen that but I didn't see it coming from my select board. Okay. So I was assuming that nobody had seen it, Mark. So I just pulled the two up side by side and the reality is the added or the suggested changes that we're looking for approval on to the process essentially our understanding is as we want to make any kind of revisions to the process we should take that to the select board and seek approval to kind of formalize that revision. And Mark kind of outlined it there. We did have so like these first three bullets here remain the same and then essentially Mark has made a narrative of the process to change and make updates to the actual CIP worksheet and formalize that as part of the CIP process document. So just, I didn't, I assumed nobody had seen it, Mark. So. Well, Sarah's internet problem explains. Yeah. Sorry. I know I did it. It sounds fine to me. I mean my presumption right along is that this was going to be a little bit of a work in progress until we work the kinks on the process out and I also agree that having it so that you could pass it off to someone else and have them not be completely lost and the line sided is worthwhile. I don't know. I guess I want a slight bit of clarity on what you said in the beginning. So take for example the truck right that you know you're going to like in fiscal year 24 we're going to replace this truck right. So fiscal year 24 comes around we replace that truck we know we're going to have to replace it again in six years. So we put that. So where did we put that truck? The one that we just purchased? We put it in the debt service section of the public works department in the budget. Okay. Yeah. And it's no longer in the CIP but then we'll update the CIP with the new truck that's going to need to be replaced in six years in fiscal year 30. And we will estimate in let's say seven years what it's going to cost us to do that in the inventory. So it's an estimate. So think of it as you know where we don't have an exact understanding inflation interest rates etc. Right. But we just have a pretty good guess in the future of what that thing is going to cost. Now we're in the CIP if any place does the balance of our capital funds. Is that in there like of where you know there's an inventory it's in the first 10. Okay. All right. I didn't get a chance to look at what you sent over. Yeah. Darinda gives us the updated. Okay. Amounts at least twice a year. You shared with us the select board. Yes. The latest document right that we can like look at. Yeah. There's a read only access here to the select board. Got it. It was right after last meeting I think. Okay. So how does this differ from what you currently have? It provides a narrative. In addition to we didn't make changes to the existing section eight. Yeah. We added narrative to that process to explain that process so somebody can sit down and read that and understand how to utilize the CIP worksheet. Yeah. Think of it more as a job aid. Instructions. You've got instructions on how to do it. And does it anywhere in the CIP note that something from the CIP got transferred to debt service or does it just show up on debt service? So in the update to section eight it specifically says hey we're transferring this to debt service. Okay. Either buying it outright or we're transferring it to the budget under debt service. Gotcha. So I have one question. So when exactly would that happen? When we purchase the asset or when we commit to purchase the asset? So good question. It would actually happen when the budget is approved for that asset. Got it. Financing of that asset. Because many times when we approve the budget we know we're purchasing a new truck. But we don't know the final pricing. We don't know whether we're going to finance it, whether we're going to pay money down. But we would make an assumption of how we're going to handle it in the budget. And then if we do it a different way we do it a different way. Right. And generally we get the specifics from the treasure. Here's what we did. Yeah. But all I'm saying is when we're working on the budget in the fall of the previous year. Yes. A, we may or may not know what the final cost of the asset's going to be. Right. And B, we certainly may not know how we're going to pay for it. Yes. We know we're buying a truck. We put the order in for the truck. We have an estimated cost, but other than that it's uncertain. Right. And as soon as that's approved, so you still don't know what the cost is. You don't know what the interest rate is. You don't know if you're going to buy it outright. You don't know how much you're going to put down yet. But as soon as that's approved, we know now to update the asset inventory because we know we're going to buy the truck. Right. We don't know how much it's going to cost. I got it. What impact it's going to have on the budget. No. But we know that we need to update the asset inventory. Can I add, though, that normally we do know because it has to go to the voters for approval on-town meeting. So we normally do have those prices like there's exceptions for highway trucks. Well, that's what I was thinking of was highway trucks. But if it's any other piece of asset that we're buying, it would have to go to the voters. So we would pretty much know by, you know, March what we were going to put into the budget. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking of the truck situation or anything else. So are you looking for us to approve those suggested changes? Without seeing them. Yes. We believe that that's the process that should take place. Sounds very official to me. Would someone like to make that motion? I'll move that we approve the process for capital improvement plan users. You'll second that, Victor? Yes. Okay. Thank you. So all in favor of proving the change to the process for the capital improvement plan, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you, gentlemen. And thanks for all your work on that. I mean, that's been a big thing. Oh, you're welcome. Glad I could help. Thank you, folks. Appreciate it, Mark. Thanks, Mark. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, guys. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Sorry about that. No problem. Highway report update on road issues action possible. Gentlemen. Just been outgrading. We've been bringing stone in for stockpiling at the shop for that side of town. We have a bunch of material in the pit that we can use for that side of town, this side of town, just waiting on the mud. The one thing I did remember as I was coming up East Hill today, admiring the grading, was all that broken up pavement down at the bottom there sometime along. I know he'll be calling me. We'll have to take care of that. Yes. Okay. And the list of things to do for sure. Yeah. No, no, no. I know what's on the list. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say that's pretty much what we've been doing. You're going to talk about the truck. About the freight line? Well, I don't have all the information on that yet. So we'll have to wait. You have anything, Vic? Yeah. It just takes me a minute. Yeah. We have a couple. We also, last year, we didn't do it. I forgot about that. And we didn't have anything in our budget, but we really should, I like to hire somebody that would do it, but at least hire a sweeper to sweep all these intersections where the gravel surface roads meet the blacktop and the cars, but especially motorcycles and stuff's been out. But we don't have any, we're looking into it, but we don't have any. You're talking about the paved roads. Correct. Yeah, so the paved roads, where the paved roads meet the gravel roads, like McCullochill. The end of Culver. The motorcycle community, God bless you for thinking of that. The end of Culver Hill, like Wood Road and Shady Road. The end of Government Hill. You know, things like that where it's... We can look into it, but I didn't know maybe the Board had some suggestion where we could come up with some money. You mean to rent, hire somebody to do it? Hiring, hiring Cliz is better for us because if we rent it, we're probably not that accustomed to it and it's just easier if they do it. How much does it cost? I don't know yet. I would say... I couldn't imagine it to be. I would say let's get some pricing. Yeah, okay. Six or seven thousand. I think we paid five thousand last time we did it, which was in the twenty. Nothing on the roads is inexpensive. So I would say... Is this not something you do every year? We try to, we should. We just didn't... Last year, the circumstances was... Well, you know what they were. We usually do it in June. We didn't have a foreman. Did you usually hire someone? Shane hired somebody and I don't remember who it was. Some friend of his, but... But most of the... It's hard to get a... especially a self-contained sweeper. Well, we can look into it. But if we always do it, isn't it somewhere in the budget in like your maintenance? That was going to be my... That was going to be my... I have not found it. It's a complete oversight. It's never been its own line item. I'm telling you that. I don't know where it came from. I don't know where it came from. Winter maintenance? Spring maintenance? It was a... You're right. It wasn't a line item, so we didn't pick up on it. Right. You could probably pick and choose which it falls, because it's a transition season, right? So if you had money left in one versus the other, you could pick and choose. Yeah, we can do that. I just thought, you know, I'm just saying if you guys had some ideas for me. Is the specialized services allocated? There's 30,000 in there. We use that up. For the next season? Not for the next season, but we want to do it before it's already... Right. No one's coming. Yeah, we definitely use that. Well, anyways, we'll look into it. Well, we don't have to do it. We have no hidden pot of money, so you guys already control all the money. For most of it, 80% of it. Okay. We'll figure it out. But I think it is a good thing to do. I think it's a safety thing and not just for motorcycles. Right. Okay. We'll get information together. Sarah said Paul has his hand up. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, sorry. Oh, I couldn't see it. Hey guys, quick question. I'm just on my way home and had a question regarding the paving down on center road. I didn't know if you guys had noticed the kind of the severe cracking that we're already getting down here. If that's worth the call to the paving company that did it, it seems like the section that got pulled up has held up fine, but everything that was bone mag seems to be breaking up what I call pretty badly for not even being there or right around six months. I didn't know if you guys had been monitoring that and maybe talked to them about that or maybe could. It just seems like a lot of money spent for pavement that's already starting to crack. Pretty what I would call pretty severely for being fresh. It's definitely something we've mentioned here. Yeah. Absolutely. Excellent. Thank you. I appreciate it. Just looking out for all of us at this point with that. So the other the other question I have about that and I had that on my on my hit list also is should we be resealing those cracks so moisture doesn't get in through there? They get you get Nikon to come out and spray it. Spray him. Yeah. Can do that. Because otherwise it's just going to cause the pregnant pavement to start to break up. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's not like, I mean, I guess I won't say that. You have to be pretty not aware that it is it breaks up and it's it's bumpy. But you know, I think I don't know. Some people might add some over respect in expectations, but that road hadn't been treated for years and years and years and years and years. And, you know, what you're seeing there is way below anything we did or anything that you would would do bull magging. Oh, I I get that. I get that a hundred percent. I'm not trying to make excuses. I'm just no, no, no. That's the reality. Well, for instance, the, you know, coming up coming up towards the school, that pavement is starting to break up pretty good too. Right. But anything we can do to whether it's whether it's crack filling or patching or whatever we can do to preserve that payment is important because once it once it breaks through, then we've got hell to pay. You're absolutely right. Yes, Sarah. That is the English word. It's for reclaiming reclaiming the asphalt. It's like using a rototiller to dig down about a foot. All right. You call that bow magging? Yes. B-O-M-A-G-I-N-G. B-O-M-A-G, I think. G-G-I-N-G. B-O-M-A-G. Sorry. Thank you. You're very welcome. Okay. Next. Yep. You saw it. Did you get the pictures from Sam? I did. We went over there this morning. Can you, we talked with Sam and we said that you would probably talk about getting, that you got a hold of or we're going to get a hold of our lawyer and what you feel. Which I did. He was, he was out of town until just the other day, but I've got to speak to him today. And he said he needs to review our road ordinance, highway ordinance. Sarah, is that on our website? It's on our website. He has copies. Okay. I'll let him know. Well, he wasn't sure he had the latest. He wants to review it, but it's one of two, one of two ways of enforcing it. And he's going to look into it. His suggestion was he thought that it would probably good idea for him to write a nasty gram and just lay it out and then if there's no positive response from that, consider taking further action. Eric, Eric's got an idea and long as everybody's here and except for Zach. We were thinking of maybe taking some gravel, a few loads of gravel and go down there with a grader and put it down on that section of road, define the road and then just tell everybody don't do anything to it. This is what you got. Well, so I took it upon myself to say to the town attorney, I don't think there's a huge cost involved. Fixing the road. I don't think that's a big concern for the town. Eric figured we could do it for sure in a half a day, you know, before dinner and lunch. But what I'm concerned about and I'm sure these folks are concerned about is if he continues to ignore and continues to change and continues to modify and continues to not pay attention to our road ordinance, what have we accomplished? We're just back on the same right mess again. So I mean, my suggestion would be that we have him write the letter and say we are going to whatever the description of the work we're going to do, we're going to add some gravel, we're going to define the parameters of the road and then you are not to change, alter or disturb that road in any way, manner, shape, or form without prior permission from the road commissioner or the road foreman or both. Would the board entertain having Mr. French come in here and talking to him? Sure. Inviting him? Sure. Done that once, haven't we? I think so, didn't we? Yeah, I mean, I think back in September or something, he came to one of the meetings, he spoke a little bit. I think at that point there was a verbal direction from the board to Mr. French to basically cease and desist. Right. So. Which didn't work. Maybe you didn't understand it. We'll try it one more time. I would say, I mean, I... Well, I mean, I don't disagree, but I think spending a few dollars and it would be a few dollars to have the attorney write the letter is a little more forceful than us sending him a letter or visiting him or talking with him or whatever. Okay. And, you know, lay out that the expectation is that he doesn't park his equipment or vehicles in the town right away, you know, spell out exactly what our concerns have been and warn him that we will be taking additional action if he fails to conform. No, I was just, I'm not negating anything that Sam and her family are saying, but I just and I don't know if it would work, but I just... Well, I think the idea of correcting where the water is running the wrong way or where the water got redirected and defining the boundaries of the road. So it's clear, you know, it isn't this vague transition where it got. I looked at the photos today and it's exactly the way I remember that road being. You know, where's the lawn and where's the road? Yes. It's not just a town policy. It literally says in the state legislation that you cannot alter the flow of a roadway without a permit. No, no, no. We know. I'm just... Well, I get that, but I'm just... But it's our ordinance first. It's a state legislation. Right. It's violating. But he explained to me that it's in terms of enforcing it, it's our ordinance first and our ordinance is backed up by the state statutes. Correct. So the bottom line is to engage in a process, in a certain sense, give him one more chance to clean up his act, but reconstruct the road, define... I like the idea of defining the boundaries of the road. I mean, now I noticed this morning there's a row of sticks there. Are those his sticks? Yes. And he thinks that's where the edge of the road is or where the edge of the right away is. Who knows what it is? We don't know what those mark. I mean, they're not. They might be a little bit in the road, a couple of them. I think you said a couple of them, but most of them are off the edge of the road. But when I say road, I mean a driven part. I don't mean the right away. Right. Right. And I just think that... Yeah, I mean, it's... You know, I just think it's worth a chance to talk to the guy and maybe, you know, one more time, try to mitigate it. I know you guys have got your mind that you can't do anything, but... Well, we can do things. Yeah. We can do things, but they're unpleasant, expensive things, expensive for the town. Right. Potentially expensive for him if he loses in court, if it's court, or if it's tickets or whatever it is. Yeah. It's... As I said, I believe at the last meeting, we've never had to take these steps before. So this is uncharted territory for us a little bit, but he reaffirmed basically what I sort of had in the back of my mind is what the process was. And it's a question of whether we go through the municipal ticket process or go through a court process. If it's a municipal ticket process, which I think it is potentially, then there's really no cost for us. We just have to go through the process. If it's go to court, then we actually have to pay the attorney. Rather not do that. Amen. Yeah. Nobody wins in court. But what I would suggest, Victor, is maybe maybe you and Eric and I can get together and come up with a list of things that should be included in that letter. Yep. And give it to him. Does that make sense? Rather than have him dream it up. Sure. I think that's a great idea. Okay. Does that sound right to everyone else on the board? Yeah, whenever you've got time. In terms of a process, I'm available. I'm going to be a little more available next Wednesday. That's the good news. Well, Eric won't. Yeah. The ninth rate. So we've got to get it done before the ninth. Next five days. Well, seriously, if it has to be done in the next five days, if you guys would put your head together and then I can get together with you, Victor, it's just right now I'm leaving at six o'clock in the morning to go to Hanover every morning. Oh, I'm sorry. Just a quick question along with this before we change the subject. As I know that the town ordinance says that you can't snow plow, because I did it all last year so everybody could get off the road. Should I be reaching out to you guys before I do that next year? That hopefully I don't have to do it anymore this year. Right now I use our tractor and just plow the whole road so that everybody can get off. Is that still all right to do that? It is according to our policy, but I'm not sure I'm not doing anything wrong. I don't know. We plowed the last four roads for a long, long time. That's right. I personally don't see it. If the board tells me that's what they want to do, then Eric will do it. We'll make him, you know, get up. We'll do it right now. I'm doing it. I don't have any problem. Yeah. I don't think obstructing your access to a residence by not allowing you to plow the road is... That's never been our practice. Our practice has always been that you can plow the road to your property and if you're also plowing the access to your neighbor's property, that's fine. Upper Barnett is a fine example from the turnaround out to the... Well, actually out to the last house. That's a class four and been plowing it for years. Yeah. I think just the depositing of the snow would be the only thing that would come to my mind as you're traveling through the road section and making sure you're not depositing snow and... Right now I've parked all the snow against where the bridge used to be so nobody could call the bridge so it was like seven feet high. Yeah. You do that yourself? Yeah, with the tractor. Good job. All right. So how would he get in there if you weren't plowing the road? Well, he'd get a wheel out of backhoe. I don't know if it runs, but... You wind it once last year, I think, or no, but the year before. Nobody would get off. Yeah. And then his brother's got to pick up a plow. It was just up on the... Yeah. Well, let's plan on getting together next week, Vic. I'll give you a call. And we'll get it to him and... Yeah. Okay. And the other thing, are we going to talk about policy here or do you want to do that at a later point in time? Policy was regarding what? Like, I mean, there were some questions about signing Eric's payroll and stuff like that. Eric called me up and Monday morning thought he had to get me to do it to sign his payroll. It was mentioned last week. Yeah, I remember. I remember. And of course, we got the... I believe what we said was we were going to review all of that sometime in the future is one of our goals. Okay. I mean, for the time being, for the time being, I guess... That's what I'm fine with that. I'm fine. Just, you know, I just told Eric I wasn't comfortable signing an affidavit that was affirming something I didn't know anything about. You know what I mean? I don't know how... Well... About let's not... Here's the... No, I don't want to spend a lot of time on it, but I mean, here's the question. Well, it just isn't a good practice for someone to be signing their own... Okay. Time sheet, right? I mean, that's just... I don't know. Theoretically, every time we sign these orders and we sign it, we approve it. Well... And technically... We're approving it, but we're approving it based on the fact that Eric has reviewed it and presumably you've reviewed it. Right. Okay. Yeah. All right. That was a big meeting. And at the same time... Or not. Huh? Nothing. Or not? Okay. Yeah. I hear you. The other thing is that... That declaration was made here in the minutes last time that people can't use their time to go over 40 hours. Did we... Did we... Did we vote on that? Did we say that? It's a clarification of existing policy. Who clarified it? Wow. I mean, that's... We discussed it. I mean, it's nothing... I mean, that has been, I believe, our practice on our policy, right, Darinda? But... So that was just restating what we thought we were already doing. Now, the point of clarification is that you can't use time to go over 40 hours. You're talking about vacation time, sick time, time off. Is that what you're saying? Pay time off. Yes. Pay time off. Yeah. You want to talk about that later, too? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anything else, gentlemen? Okay. Thank you. Joint meeting with the town Planning Commission. Discussion includes info on local cannabis measures. Action possible. Sandy. Welcome. Thank you. And what we've been doing with the Planning Commission and to perhaps clarify a bit of the letter that the Planning Commission sent. I'll start with that. That relates to cannabis measures, local measures that the town can take regarding cannabis. And it came up to the Planning Commission. It was brought to our attention by Ann Gilbert, who works, I think, with Central Vermont New Directions when we were updating our zoning. And she flagged for us, you're updating your zoning. Retail cannabis is coming. Why don't you look at this? We looked at it and sort of viewed how it fit with our zoning and said, okay, that's all good. And then she also said there's, the towns are also able to create a cannabis control commission, which can issue licenses. My understanding is similar to liquor licenses for any retail cannabis operations in town. That's something only select board can do. So we looked into it. We don't have a recommendation one way or the other. And the letter that we wrote was mostly to just flag for you, this is something the town can do. The state has come up with fairly detailed guidance on what you can and cannot do. You can't put additional, my understanding you can't put additional requirements on those operations, but you can make sure that they are following whatever existing zoning is in the course of a license. So this is the planning commission handing this off to you and just sharing that we looked into this a little bit. We reviewed it. We didn't think there was anything for us to do, but. So here's my only question and comment is, as long as I can remember, the select board has been the town of Middlesex liquor control commission. We issue the licenses. We review complaints. We do it. So I'm a little reluctant to say, okay, we've been doing that. Now we're going to have cannabis and we're going to create a separate organization or potentially create a separate organization. It's not, it doesn't have to be a separate organization. The select board can be the cannabis control commission. The same as it's the, it does the liquor. So we just be, you would be treating. My understanding is you would be. I would presume we already are. Well, you are for liquor, but you are not for cannabis. You have to actually. We have to actually take a step to do it. Well, probably we do need to do that. You do need to say that yes, we're going to do that. And yes, we would appoint the select board to do that, not create some separate commission. Again, that's up to you. You want to create a separate commission. You can do that. Well, I misunderstood the intent of your letter. I apologize. Do you send the up hand remember what we voted for? We voted for a few years back. Like there were two things that we voted yes on. We voted to allow retail and we voted to allow growing, I believe. Yeah, some sort of manufacturing or something like that. Yeah, there was a process of a group of different licenses that could be had. And then there was retail amongst that. Okay. So what this is saying is that they still have to do all that. This would be sort of a one further step that they would have to take. Who's they? Like anyone wants to sell cannabis. If somebody wants to sell cannabis and moves into, you know, put the store next door right now or wherever. Right now, my understanding is they need to get permission from the state to do it. Yes. Not at the state office. Okay. But there's nothing the town would do about it. That's what I'm saying. And so there's nothing the town would do about it. Yes. So if you adopted a cannabis control commission, you would issue a license similar to what you do for liquor licenses. Okay. And there's, so they'd have to go to the state and then they'd also have to come to us so that we would be aware that this is happening. Yeah. I think that's not a bad idea. But the key word, the key word, I'm sorry. Go ahead. You go first. The key word is what you said. We can't say, anyone can't say, they can't say anything about the rules already in place by the state. They can't change anything. Right. So what's the point? Well, our point is just to flag this for you and we recommend that you take it up and make a decision as to whether you want to do this or not. Right. And frankly, the planning commission didn't have a specific recommendation one way or another. Okay. What makes sense to me, and I did, I apologize because I misunderstood what you were suggesting. But if we do it for liquor, why wouldn't we do it for cannabis? The same thing. The same process. I guess the only thing. I mean, we have the right, we have, my understanding is if we don't issue a liquor license, they can't sell liquor. Whether they have a state license or not. Right. So assuming it would be the same for cannabis, it gives us, it gives us some element of control over what's going on and the ability to respond directly. I mean, the state's not exactly well known for enforcing their rules and regulations either. Gives us some direct control if there's an issue or problem. And the good thing if we get one here, we'll have more tax revenue. No. No. We don't get any of the tax revenue. Not from, not from the stock, no. Not unless you operate some sort of local. The local tax revenue. Oh, the building. Well, probably, yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah. You could actually just do what Burlington does. Most people don't know this, but if you have Ryzen and you're a Burlington resident, you can look on your bill and they get three cents on every transaction just because you're a resident of Burlington. Burlington does. How does this feel like? Because they've set up as a local option tax revenue. It's a local. Because they, Burlington City, put it in as their tax revenue. That's a local option. You're a resident. You have a credit card that you use for, say, Amazon purges. They're getting money from that purges. Yeah. But how does that relate to the marijuana life? You could just pass a special tax for anybody who purges something. Well, we have, we have, we have never, never done that. But who knows. But I just think fundamentally to me as a matter of equity and fairness and everything else, they should be traded in a similar manner to anybody who wants to sell out. So you need a motion? No, you can answer that as a question. I have two questions. First of all, if somebody was to sell it at retail, wouldn't they have to meet the zoning regulations for the operation? Right. Okay. And the second thing is, is I thought we were notified by the state if somebody is applying for a license or gets a license in our town. Isn't that correct? I think it's correct. We just haven't had that experience. Well, we've gotten a couple of them, right? We were aware of a couple people that had licenses. Are we made aware by the people bringing it to the town though? I thought we were notified by the state. It's not like, for example, on your agenda tonight, you've got two liquor licenses you've got to approve. But that has not happened. But how were we aware that there was, weren't we notified there was a couple of marijuana operations? Notify us because people apply for zoning permits because they wanted to change the use of their property to include. Okay. Then that's how we found out. Right. And I also think it kind of falls under agriculture, although it might be a little different. But that's the only way we found it. There's no formal notification process. Okay. So how do we find out now if somebody's got a state liquor license? Does the state notify us? Yes. The way it's all, the old way used to be that, you know, this was all done by paper. But as of January 1st, we now have it in a system. And the state sends the licensed applications to us. And there are separate fees that they pay that the liquor establishments pay to the town of the state. The board votes on it and says, well, should we give, you know, do you sign off on the classes? And then I now go in and say, yes, it's been approved, but they need to pay us. So then that generates the license for the businesses. So if you guys said, no, we don't approve that, that's where it stops. These establishments would not be able to have their licenses renewed or to have licenses to begin with. Right. And is that what the state is planning for cannabis as well? Do we know? I don't know. We just don't have any cannabis operations in town right now that are, you know, not legit, you know, so. Well, and it doesn't sound like that. Yeah. I mean, as I read through the guidance, I think it's being treated differently than liquor. It's identical, but there are some similarities. And I guess my, my suggestion would be that the select board take this up and have, you know, add it to your agenda sometime. Do we want to have a cannabis control commission and maybe one or two of you look through what those, the guidance and the regulations are and report back on, report back on that. Yeah. With that following the home occupation. Well, I know I'm just, I mean, besides somebody opening a storefront or something, that's something different. But if, I mean, if people are selling it, I don't know. You don't know. Well, I think we're not going to be involved in that. I don't think. I think it would be worth inviting Ann Gilbert to come, give an example of maybe some, what some towns, if they have actually already adopted. I mean, I'm sure there's some document or something. Where are we inviting? Ann Gilbert to it has, has been working with towns as a resource to create these local cannabis commissions, just to hear from her and to see what it entails. I mean, if it's just a, you know, some sort of piece of paper with words on it that we adopt. And then we know that people are going to always be required to just come to us. Then we have a sense of, I mean, I think it makes sense to have a sense who in your town is doing what, right? Well, and it also makes, makes sense that if, you know, if all of a sudden, all of a sudden, one of our liquor licensees was creating a problem or having an issue, we have the right to revoke their license. And then they're out of business. So that gives us leverage. Not that I'd like to use it, but it gives us leverage, right? So let's invite her. Okay. That makes sense to everyone. And he has another question. I was just going to let the select board know that there is now currently a coalition of retail cannabis sales. And they would probably be a fairly good resource as far as finding out the current legislation. And they are going to start lobbying to change a lot of that legislation. So they'll have a lot of proposals on their websites. Oh, I'm sure this is going to be a moving target. So, but it's probably a pretty good source of information for you guys. I do think that the guidance that the state provided was very helpful in telling, explaining what towns can and can't do and what the parameters are of that. Okay. And you gave it that in this. Yes, I gave you a link to that. Yes. I was just going to say there is some info about which towns have approved it on the state website. It's called the Cannabis Control Board, and so it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. So about 30 towns have designated commissions. Yeah. And then it says applicants seeking a license in these towns will need local licensure before they may begin operating. Yeah. Exactly what I'd like to say is to. Yeah. Yeah. I think that it says, please let the CCB know by sending a copy of the resolution. Okay. So if the, if the select board chooses to. Create a resolution, they're asking for us to notify them. Yeah. Yeah. They want to know. Do they have an example of a resolution? I think there's one. There's one. In the link, I think. Okay. We'll update on. Update on others. The zoning pass, that's all done. We're not taking, we're not dealing with zoning right now. The planning commission, we're still looking at a possibility of figuring out how to get funding to put sidewalks or slow traffic down into the village. It was really disappointing that BTrans came in and paved all of route two without doing any of this, putting sidewalks or bike lanes in, but that's what they did. I've talked to, that we will have somebody from the Central Mont Regional Planning Commission come and talk to us about maybe we can phase this in. Maybe there's additional funding that's available to do it. I don't know if or when it's going to happen, but we're still trying to figure out if we can make that happen sometime. There's also the possibility of doing a demonstration project with sort of temporary barricades or temporary crosswalks. We're going to look into see if we can do that this summer. Again, in front of Camp Me, just through this section of the village. And Russ and I were interviewed for a podcast that the State of Vermont is doing to sort of highlight their Better Places grant, which was the grant that paid for the trails and the overlooks from the Camp Me property down to the river. We did that. I don't know when that's going to be out, but we did that last week, a little bit of promotion for Middlesex. And work going forward that the Planning Commission is taking up from now until June or so, we're taking a closer look at conservation, natural resources, and wildlife planning. There's new information out, new mapping resources. We're working with the Regional Planning Commission to create a Middlesex-designated resource map that we can later on add to our town plan maps. And we're hoping to have some time to get together with Middlesex residents to add to it what are places that are of particular importance to the people in Middlesex? What do you know about what's missing from this map? What's maybe wrong in these maps? We're planning to send a survey out about natural resources and conservation planning issues in April, between April and May. And then in May, at our May meeting, have a bigger get together and invite people to come and help us figure out these mapping resources so that we'll have these both for the next time we update our town plan and also to help guide the work of the Conservation Commission and the Trails Committee as well. We're working with the Conservation Commission on that. And the next thing, which ties into, I think, something that Russ is talking with you about as well, is we flagged as a longer-term project to work on to take a closer look at opportunities for water and septic issues in the village. That's long been sort of an issue that limits growth in the village and are there things that we can do as a planning commission? We were going to invite some folks in from the Agency of Natural Resources to see what we could do about that. We haven't started that work. We kicked that can down the road and said, let's get this done first and we'll take that up later in the summer. Those are our plans. Okay. Thank you. Any questions? Russ, presentation by Russ Bennett and not a quick engineering. R.E. Water found on property purchased by Robert Napier Revocable Trust from James W. Colby Revocable Trust as a potential source of village water. Action unlikely. Gentlemen, welcome. Ask you if you can kind of move so that the people that can see you on Zoom. Is that my checker? Oh. And that's what you do. Do I have to look that? The owl will see you. No, no, I'm just... Okay. So we can explain those things that we just passed out to you in a minute. We started looking around for natural resources, et cetera, on Napier property, which is the galaxy of ES LLC is sort of managing that and we'll absorb that property. We have drilled a couple of wells up there and they yield. We have to do replenishment testing and a well shield and see what the impact is on the nearest wells. And we've started the process of going for a permit to test within 2,000 foot radius of the wells that we have on the property to see what impact there may or may not be on those wells. It's likely that there's not very much if there is, because that's a pretty long distance and the wells are way in the middle of the property. So, likely they're... But we're going to do all of that kind of work. But part of what started us down this road is we think our first phase of what we want to do up there is in a sort of commercially mixed-use zone area, Sandy. And the first thing that we want to do is apply for and build a building that can hold a daycare of 150 kids and then have some other spaces in it as well. And then a barn-like structure, which will all come before the DRB and all of you guys. A barn-like structure that can have some maker space in it, sort of an extension of what we're doing that it can't meet just sort of expounding on it. And then on a field, we call it a lumpy field, which is sort of on the left side of the Colby Road when you go down the road, build three or four multifamily structures that would have some unaffordable housing in it and some long-term subsidized affordable housing as well so that we have mixed development there. That's the extent of our thinking there and there's a lot of other land. And we don't really know what our access will be out to that but we see that becoming some form of save, preserve land, some housing, et cetera. So we went looking for water and we knew that you guys had hired Stone Environmental around 2000, 2001 and they had looked at that property and others for sources of water, for municipal water for here. We use some of that information to drill the wells that we drilled. So I have two wells that our drill, well-drillers yield 50 gallons a minute. So it's theoretically 100 gallons a minute. And we know roughly what our capacity is for septic disposal in the field that would be for that with untreated and 50 gallons a minute on a 12-hour day, which is how they figure it, would about equal that capacity. And thinking about that, we thought also about, we know a lot about the village because we're in the village and we know how really strong the need for a municipal system is down here in order to, it's mostly sort of 19th century technology that's going on for water and sewage disposal in the village. And that inhibits its ability to even maintain itself. There's a lot of deferred maintenance as we know here. So it's wanting to always be a good citizen doing stuff in middle sex. We thought, well, if we have this much water and we're up gradient, and that's what we talked with Craig and Eric about, they're knowledgeable about all things water. They're engineers that do this. If we had storage up gradient from where the wells are, there would be enough head pressure to have really good hydrants everywhere throughout the village as well as potable water. For us, we could be selfish and say, well, okay, we're just going to, we got water and we've got sewage and we can do some stuff and we're going to go ahead and see what we can get permitted to do. But I don't think that's the right thing to do personally. That would, because if we did what was only good for us, enough hydrant power and all that jazz, it would limit it being able to become a municipal system because we wouldn't put in big enough pipes to serve if we were being a pecuniary. We'd put in an 8-inch pipe and what would need to be served all down through here would be 12-inch piping. So it makes sense to pose the question, is there interest in the town to have a municipal system and how can we help? I'm not looking to gain anything. I want to make that perfectly clear as far as we know we have some ideas what it would cost for us to do our own thing. We have some rough ideas but we've got to do the real work to see what it would cost to do, say from Route 100B to the other side of the commercial district, which would enable you to have a lot of your people get off the systems that they have and would actually make it possible for you to have denser growth if you wanted it and have housing growth. One of the things that I see is you don't have enough water and you can't really build systems that need to have sprinklers buildings that need to have sprinklers unless you've got a pant load of money. So having a water supply that could provide that would enable more jobs, et cetera, to be able to come here. So my thought is we should let these guys talk a little bit about what's there and I will sort of plant the seed of saying I don't know how much federal money there is but there's a lot of money for these kinds of things right now and state money for sewer and water and it would be a pity to miss this opportunity if it's an opportunity that you want to do. We, the Galaxy folks we can talk about how it would work could be a helper in some way because we've already bought the land we've drilled wells we know a bunch of things not looking to sell water we could probably help with some amount of match depending on what that might be because there's always going to be something that the residents, the government the other government wants to see demonstrated so with that I think I'll let Craig and Eric sort of talk you can ask me any questions as you want to talk about water and how they see it and other towns that they've worked on and how that's worked for them. Well, thanks for the time my name is Craig Jewett work for Otter Creek Engineering Eric DeFillips also works with us so Russ came to me about three or four months ago talking about his project and wanted to understand from his project perspective what do I need to do for the water system I know I need a water system I'm going to have X amount of people up here I know it's a community based water system what do I need to do for my project first and foremost and then as a secondary sort of look to that saying okay I know I need to establish 80 hundred year assets if I'm going to go do that I don't want to do it in a vacuum I want to make sure that it is available for future expansion or possibly development of a municipal system what do those things look like so we did a preliminary kind of overview of what the project requirements are and then what the opportunities were related to a municipal system so as far as some of the major assets wells, water storage tank the big ticket items the hundred year assets Russ needs to do that for his project for Carmelis so there is an opportunity for the municipality to potentially leverage what he's already planning on doing to meet your guys needs long term in the future now that's directly proportionate to how big a service area you guys are interested in serving whether you're interested in that at all I think one of the other things is also is there an established need I know you guys as a municipality had stone go look 15-20 years ago at water I'm assuming that was generated based off of a general kind of want and a need idea from the town's perspective that this is something that's necessary there so one of the things that we looked at was just kind of assuming the galaxy of yes happens what opportunities does that open up to the town as a whole where it could be served where it couldn't be served where's reasonable what's not reasonable on the handout I gave you there's actually two sheets the first sheet is kind of the galaxy of yes and the second sheet is kind of a very broad brush back of a napkin here's what a service area down in the middle sex village and beyond what that could look like and so the blue line that you see there is essentially the distribution piping and then the red are all the fire hydrants related to that so there's no real science to this it was where do you have properties obviously the village center is a big portion of that what would something like that look like and so we looked at it and laid it out and said yeah it's absolutely possible where your water storage tank needs to be and where your wells are for your project is advantageous for the town it creates more than enough pressure to serve the village and so long as you can get the water to those users you have a viable system here you'd have to drill down at some point time and figure out how many of these people would actually want to connect which is the other part of the calculus related to that and then determine whether that capital cost meets with kind of what your user rates are going to be eventually the other component to this and it's a little abstract when some people hear it and they kind of turn their head a little bit a water system like this is also a village wastewater solution and everyone looks at you and goes wait a second we were just talking about water how are we getting to wastewater now what the water system allows is more opportunity to find village wastewater solutions because now you're not worried about everybody's individual well and their proximity related to a community based wastewater system so it helps open up more opportunities it doesn't solve your problem for you but it potentially opens up other opportunities that without the water system are opportunities for you guys to review so in looking through this and kind of going over this we talked to Russ from a sheer initial major assets that need to be developed that sort of thing the delta between what galaxy of yes would need to do and what the town may potentially want to utilize this for there isn't a big order of magnitude difference the cost difference is getting the water from up on the hill down to the village and that's all based on how many users that you've got so there's an economy in scale in there there's an affordability at some point in time it becomes unaffordable there's so many users that you need to get on that's all kind of down the road sort of stuff we can't push on a rope necessarily from that standpoint so in talking with Russ that's where we felt this was the right opportunity to come to the town and say is there interest here if there's not interest here or if there isn't appetite for that then Russ kind of has his answers and can feel good that he didn't preclude an option available to the town and if the town decides not to want to go down this road or look at it further then that's fine his consciousness clear that you know he he gave everybody the opportunity to consider it and didn't make a decision without coming to you guys and saying I'm just going to go do this and if you guys can take advantage of it great and if you can't you know no big deal because we've seen in a lot of circumstances where this this does open up a lot of opportunity I know there was a conversation earlier about growth this absolutely impacts your growth and you don't need to go very far down the road to find a perfect example of it if anybody knows anybody in the town of Berlin and what they've been doing since their water system has gotten up and running and they got off Montpellier's water system they will probably tell you they wish they had done that years before they actually did it their waters cheaper than what they were paying Montpellier for it they have had to go out and we need to find more wells for them because they have more demand than the water that we have right now so they have the opposite problem now they've got to go and find more water to figure out how to serve the demand that's gone above and beyond what they originally thought was so from my perspective this is a good opportunity from the town's perspective to take advantage of the opportunity and look at this further without having to have any real skin in the game necessarily right now Russ and I were talking about kind of next steps and what would happen in these sorts of scenarios is they kind of call it a needs assessment but it's a half needs assessment half income assessment because the mean household income which is how all the federal financing is based off from you guys are not in a unique situation where the village income does not necessarily represent the town's income as a whole from a mean household income standpoint villages tend to have lower incomes you get further out you get around the sprawl that's where the income start to go up and that's artificially inflated so for instance right now if you were looking at middle sex as a whole you guys would not qualify for any subsidy related to federal funding you would get low interest loans but you wouldn't get any sort of subsidy related to that how we address that in Berlin was we went we did an income survey of the actual service area and went to the individuals and said what are your actual numbers so that we can go to USDA or to the state's funding program and say here's the actual mean household income for the service area not middle sex as a whole the service area and that allows for further conversation about whether something could be subsidized related to that with all the federal funding I think the other thing that comes out of all of this as well as you don't see a lot of private water companies anymore and Russ had said he doesn't have any interest in selling you water I think that's a because he's not interested in doing that as a business but in general the state makes it literally impossible for that to be a viable business you can count on one or two hands how many private water systems still exist in the state of Vermont they've all gone away Arlington took theirs over Woodstock is one of the few towns that still has a private water company that serves all the village and all the town all all the water there and they're actually regulated by the public service board so those individual water systems are treated like green mount power you have to justify your rates you can't have a sinking fund or generate any real revenue because you're not supposed to be making money off of this necessarily what that does though is it restricts the control of the water system and how you plan for projects how you raise rates ahead of projects that you're going to do public service board doesn't allow you to do that you have to demonstrate this is what you need to raise your revenues for they allow you to do that and then you go and do a project as opposed to a normal water system would say hey we're going to do something five years from now we're going to start raising rates now so that we're not trying to hit everybody at the end of the game and it allows more flexibility and control for the towns to do what they want with their structure as opposed to having someone like 248 come in and say this is the rate that you need to set related to that when you talk about federal funding they're going to necessarily qualify including the Build Back Better grant because they define rural communities that qualify as any population under 10,000 and the drinking water and clean water state revolving funds is something that I mean maybe I'm missing something but I believe that we would definitely qualify for that and potentially give the town up to a million dollars to put toward a system like that yes so there are funding buckets that are new related to ARPA and to the infrastructure bill that has created that's just an EPA specifically out of the Build Better grant funding yep and so you would qualify for federal funding through the state or USDA Rural Development then we could apply for that not through the state just literally with our community validation number we can apply for that at a level not going through the state right and that would be on top of what so that would be the okay if the state's saying we're going to give you low interest loan this is another bucket for you to pull from and say okay well we're going to use this fund to pay for our portion of what you're saying I just want to clarify if you need something different no no you're no and you're right on the money with that and how that gets some of the other funding from either program is part of the game that gets played to try to get this to the lower user lowest user cost possible there's also other grants that haven't released but there are other grants coming down the line we were awarded this we'd be able to use this as a matching money for additional federal grants under the better Build Back Better Program that we would be able to then match it like we potentially got awarded whatever amount of money we could then match that first grant on top of that yep or you can do it the other way to say okay the state gave us 35% grant and 65% loan well we're going to take that grant the other grant that you're talking about to pay off the loan and instead of paying it over 40 years we pay it off on day one we save all the interest related related to that so that's how you it's and making sure that you don't as a municipality self opt out of anything and so that's one of the opportunities that the town has that if Russ goes on this on his own his options are very very limited in comparison to what you guys have for options available to you there are some funds that are available related to low income housing and water systems related to day cares and schools and stuff like that so there are things available but the pool of money available is that much greater when the municipality is involved as opposed to a private entity so you know long winded way I'm sorry did you I was just going to ask a question as to whether or not with some of the plans there for day care and affordable housing and things like that when you're talking about looking at media income streamers within the service district does that include any future residences or anything like that so if there's affordable housing and there's limits on income threshold does that take into consideration yes it would one of the big things that pushed us over over the edge in Berlin was there was a elderly community that helped with that that income service so yes exactly to your point those sorts of things actually are advantageous for you in that case so if you do have a mixture of non affordable and affordable that kind of balances that out a little bit so you're not skewing it in one direction or another but yes to your point that could be part of this is the community we're going to serve and this is how this is restricted from an income standpoint I have three questions one if we decided yes like let's think about having a municipal water system is Russ's galaxy of yes development a part of that municipal water system and then to get the water from the street to the person's house is that a cost that they incur or is that included in like how you build a municipal water system and what was my third question people I guess people right now have tells would they they would potentially be able to opt out and not be on a municipal water system correct so let's start with the first question first so the first one was whether or not galaxy of yes was included in the cost that's all a discussion in a negotiation that would happen between these two parties as far as what's palatable what makes sense on Russ's standpoint all of that's on the table because from my initial perspective you if the town was looking and serious about creating a municipal water system you've got to control everything related to that water system so easements on the wells easements on the tanks all of those sorts of things would have to be the first part of it if you don't end up with control of what's there you don't want it and how that negotiates out to how that project gets connected what the future rates of those projects or those users are going to be all of that stuff is a negotiation as part of this overarching discussion and I think it's really it's up to the parties out as to what makes sense you can do it six different ways from Sunday seen it go where it's completely in the land owners favor because the land owner holds all the leverage versus other scenarios where you had very amicable land owners who are like I will feel good about providing this I just want to provide this and if I can get water related to this and it's whatever then I'm good so I think that's that's an ongoing conversation if and when you get going down the road so that was question number one question two is the pipes that go to the people yes so that would all be that would all be included in the cost so that's part of the discussion about having like a survey to the potential service area if the village was to develop a municipal water system not talking any costs related but just if they were would you be interested in connecting and yes or no that gives you some idea state statute does not allow you to force somebody off a well onto a water system unless you're the town of Killington and you have a PFAS issue but that's a completely different subject but if there is not a contamination based issue and they have a water supply that they want to keep you cannot force them on to the water system so that is one of those data points where you know this looks great on paper oh fantastic this assumes all these people want to hook up and that is one of the first pieces of information that needs to be gathered as far as the next step you know V-trans I'm assuming V-trans doesn't want to have a water system and doesn't need a water operator and all the other they would rather just send you guys a you know a check every month to have water come to their building and not have to worry about it any further but you don't know that until you ask so I think part of that is kind of a needs assessment and whether the users and the potential users do see a need to hook up because again to your point if half the people we have on this list are like perfectly fine I mean I have no idea what I'm drinking but I feel good I'm healthy you know I'm good then yes then this the reason to do this becomes a lot less because you are going to need those users to make it affordable you know and the third question I had really was that I forgot and I remember is like is this millions upon millions of dollars to do this like hundreds like no no no so I order order of magnitude I you know spitballing and completely just throwing numbers around you're in probably for what Russ wants to do three to four million dollars for the water system I would say order of magnitude assuming that we serve the entire area that we're talking about maybe a 40% increase on top of that 50% increase on that's where the economy and scale comes in because he has to build a tank but if you guys can utilize that tank as well now there's more people to share in that cost and again it goes with the negotiation of all of that stuff but I think it first comes back to does the village have people within it who want to connect that if it were an option to them would they do so and that's really a critical path sort of item so that you guys don't get too far over your skis water system sounds great we've got Russ here who's willing to partner with us and we'll figure something out once we get far enough down the road if you don't have those people want to connect then the reason for doing this kind of loses its steam and you wouldn't want to put in sidewalks before you put in water I mean it's like all this stuff if like you know realistically you have to tear up roads and let's be fair there are other entities who would need to be involved in that conversation we're not doing anything and v-trans is road without them knowing it we got to go under the highway and over the railroad so there are other entities that would be involved related to that and that goes into some of the long range planning you're right you don't want to do a streetscape killington just finished a big streetscape project through their main corridor that they're now going to have to all rip up and redo as part of it's not as big as what they wanted to do but they put sidewalks in and they're going to have to rip it all up and put it in the water system yeah let's not do that this is more of a well question yes but it sounds like the well you guys are putting in is quite deep is there any risk to impact on adjacent property wells we're going to test for all that yeah so part of it might be made public yes so the wells have already been drilled part of the state's process is to request a what they call a certain amount of radius that they say okay any water supplies within this radius when you pump this well you have to go to these landowners and say do you want your well monitored while I'm pumping my well if they do that's given to them for your charge Russ would have to pay to monitor their well collect all that data and then they would get a report related to that as does the state and then there is a public participation related to that so what Russ has to demonstrate is that the water he's pulling out of the ground isn't coming from anybody else that's not 2,000 foot it all depends on the demand so as the demand gets larger the radius that you have to investigate gets larger what is the initial radius I would say in this case 2,000 feet so we will definitely want to have our well monitored yeah and so all of the neighboring landowners and anybody who's identified as a property owner within that investigation radius is required to be contacted the state makes us demonstrate if you're contacted you if you choose not to that's fine you can choose not to but then you can't go and say you're affected after that case so that will be a public notice policy or public notice procedure when they get to that point right now it's being held up on some administrative stuff that's why you haven't heard anything about the pump test but once that happens Russ will be required to discuss and identify with all of the parcel owners within that investigation second question when you say affordable housing is that based on a median income across the state or is that just a quote-unquote nicety like they do in Burlington and they charge twice median income for rent before utilities and then eventually fill out the section 8 when they cannot find the housing no I've had preliminary conversations with the director of down street about how could we do a phase project that we don't know the totality of but using a number like perhaps 10% of that housing stock would be perpetually affordable and what I want to do with those is be sure that the system that's put in place doesn't trap people into it because they take too much equity into the managing organization I guess what I just don't want to see is like some of the apartment buildings that have been put into Burlington where they quote-unquote get it passed through Burlington City Council because it's affordable housing and then the cheapest unit on the ground floor is $3200 before utilities and I've seen that multiple times they get that with the Burlington DMV project when they moved to DMV to South Burlington that was also speed low income quote-unquote affordable housing the cheapest units for twice the state median income the current statistic for the median income in the state as of 2001 the stats are now for 2022 is $67,000 in change that includes all incomes from anyone in the household over the age of 15 so you're the chair and I'm going to be just a stickler around this people should be directing questions to you should be able to direct the meeting do you want me to answer the question sure I think that's one of the reasons that I wanted to have want to start the conversation with Down Street to say I really want to know the nuts and bolts of their system and how they manage that over time because I'm interested in helping the economic side of this there's all kinds of affordable housing and right now they keep 75% of the equity and the buyer gets only 25% of the equity and I think that traps a lot of people into not being able to move up and out if that's what they want to do I built a number of FMHA homes in the early years of when it was still good on purpose because this is important to me I'm not playing a shell game here I believe that if we're going to have healthy societies we need to have mixtures of all socio-economic classes and that we all are better by doing that so I just want to be cautious that we don't get too far a field here we're using up a lot of our time and I think they're going to be able to a lot more questions I have some questions you know I think it's safe to say that we're interested what that means what the next steps are we don't know having spent a lot of time and effort when we went through the last water study years ago only to find out at the end of the process that the users we were proposing to create a fire district which I presume we would be doing in this case as well probably and we came up with estimated cost figures and my memory is at that time and I could be wrong about this but I think it was estimated that it was going to be $300 a year for a residential house to have all the water they could use we weren't at that time going to meter the water and the feeling in town at that time was that they didn't want to pay $300 and we backed away that's a short version of a long story but that's sort of what you're talking about is the economics of this are huge for our community it's great that there's potentially funding out there to help us but we've got to make the numbers work and I was interested to hear that you do this survey as part of the start of this process because to me that's what's going to drive the whole thing and we have to figure out it would be great to have fire protection it would be great to have plenty of potable water would be great to have the opportunity for future development all that stuff sounds great but the numbers have got to work and you guys are the experts who can make this happen I don't know Russ how do we work together to make this happen in just thinking about it quickly tonight to me the thing is if we were to do this the thing would be for us to create this water system and for you guys to be a user on the water system I don't know whether that's what you're thinking or not I don't know if that's the right approach or not we've got to figure it out but my big question for tonight is and I know you guys are anxious to get started over there as soon as you reasonably can what's the next step for us in this process other than saying if we can figure it out we'd be interested and I'm saying that for myself I'm not saying it for the board at this point in time but can you give us a little if it were me I guess the next step would be is the town in support of some sort of need survey to the proposed community that we're talking about I think the next step is trying to get arms around is there do people want it outside of the economic part of it at this point because we can't answer the economic part of it until we know how many people are interested in it and it is a chicken or the egg sort of scenario I think that would be step number one is can we send out a survey related to this community to get a gauge of is it 80% of the people we think we can hook on is it 60% of the people that's that first kind of hurdle to say does this kind of get us over this hurdle to the next step beyond that I think is when you start talking about whether it's an income survey because to the financial piece of it if you aren't subsidized in any way we can talk what those numbers are but you throw out a number 300 dollars a year I would kill for 300 dollars a year in my water system right now and I can tell you that I I was 20 years ago exactly and an order of magnitude sort of thing I can tell you that people are going to wish it was still 300 dollars when we get to the end of this and that's that's something that always needs to be kept in mind it's never going to be cheaper to do infrastructure than the day you're talking about it because the next day and the day after that it is going it's never going to be cheaper than it is today and that's hard for everybody to to pay if I pull water out of my well and I don't have to pay a damn thing for it and get all of that like that that is certainly a hill that needs to be climbed I think the next step is really trying to determine whether there is a need in the community with the user base to the potential user base to say yeah we're interested in learning more about it or yeah we'd be interested in it so long as I don't have to put my name to anything right now and say yes I'm signing up for X, Y and Z that would come down the road like once you get to the financial parts of it where you could get a user rate and all of that there will be a time down the road where we may have to actually physically sign up users to demonstrate you have the user base to pay for all of that that's way down the road I think initially it's of the you know 60 to 70 connections whatever the number is that we're talking about how many of those people are actually interested and if it's less than 50% then you kind of get your answer you know there's a need here but people aren't that interested and Russ has at least what he needs for information to determine what his next step is and how he proceeds so I guess from my standpoint it's whether or not there's some community support in putting out that sort of survey because I think Russ has a problem with sending out the survey but he doesn't want to just send it out to the community and have everybody be like the hell is this I don't want as opposed to it coming from the town and the town saying hey this is something we're considering I would think if we were to do that it should definitely come from the town I think it will hold more weight and it will be less likely that it ends up in the trash can the minute it comes in and then you guys get the response so you get the initial response back of what you've got there and then that can kind of lead to the next steps I just wanted to say that some village residents came to one of our planning commission meetings and urged us to take a look at water and sewer within the village that they said we're fine for now but we don't think we're going to be fine for very long and that was part of what precipitated this was in the last year and that's part of what precipitated us to say let's put that on our work plan for 2023 yeah I had a coincidental one day at Hancafe we have a water system we manage a water system actually in downtown Little Sex already you know all those buildings but there was a young couple in there they just moved here from Colorado and they were in the next table to me and I said are you a Ross Bennett and I said yeah why and I said well we just had our water meeting with the 11 people that we get water with 11 other buildings and is there something going to happen with water and what I got there I don't know I said well we're thinking about it so we would love to be off that already so are those the people who are connected to the spring across the river? I am soon so and I remember when Wexler's bought Camp Mead I was involved with doing active 50 for them and this and that and the other thing and it went up to that thing I mean that was that pre-existing system that was in place both at Camp Mead and also in the village was not something that should really exist in today's world from a healthful standpoint I think next steps for this kind of a thing is to have real good outreach and discussions with the townspeople in general about what you want for your town I think you know I have my own opinions I think this is a chance to do some things with somebody that wants to be truly helpful in this way and figure out how it can be something that can be done and can be afforded in the time that is here for us if we do just it and we call it just us then we would build I think the storage tank is only 100,000 gallons but it would need to be 500,000 gallons if we were going to service this area so we don't really know what the numbers are but they will exponentially change after the fact would be really a sad turn of events or not possible at all not possible at all to cut you off from it that's what I'm worried about if we don't move ahead with this project now we're closing the door which might be very challenging to reopen because I don't know that I could convince my partner that we should go from 8 inch to 12 inches just to keep the door open for some time on the road if I'm saying yes one of the things that I was thinking about before you brought that up was just as you're looking at costs the incremental cost to move from that 100,000 gallon tank to the 500,000 gallon tank and not necessarily look at the full incremental cost of the full system but say you move forward with the galaxy project as it sits today but we upsize and look at the incremental cost just to get that set up so that in the future you're setting yourself up for a situation where sure you've got all this other cost and infrastructure that needs to be put in place but you're not handcuffed by the existing system so I'd like to see and understand kind of the two sets of incremental cost one of looking at that system as it sits the cost that it would take to upsize in a manner that could be added to in the future and then a separate cost to expand for the full service territory and that's actually so Russ is in the process we were putting a report together related to kind of what he needs to do for the water system his performer for what he needs to do for his project and that's exactly one of the components in there so yes it does include looking at the cost of distribution and all that but really it's okay you need to do X what are the things that need to be done that don't self opt out of potential expansion in the future you know 500,000 gallon tank a 12 inch line coming down from the tank instead of an 8 inch line those sorts of things so we can actually get to a reasonable delta of the difference between those two so that you guys could wrap your arms around that a little bit easier than who could hook up where do we go with the rest of the water system and at least know that okay here's the price of doing business if we the town are interested in keeping this as an option on the table down the road even if we're not ready to move forward on Russ's schedule related to that and a grant schedule that's the other big thing I mean this money is not always here correct and it's so yeah and that's two fold so generational money that's coming into the state that will not happen again in any of our lifetime they have put more money into this state in the last year and a half two years then the infrastructure programs that the state uses to pay for everybody's infrastructure in the entire history of their program so 30 years worth of money that they've done for this they have more money right now to spend on all of that now the other portion of that too is and it's a very hot button sort of thing with the governor as well it's the whole reason these village districts were created is to leverage that even more hey we're not just someone who wants a water system we're a designated village that needs a water system related to that and that builds upon that on top of the fact that there is money available for that you build the leverage points related to all of the people up in Montpelier saying yeah we know middle sex okay we need to do an income survey maybe we can open up some more subsidy related to this or hey we've got all this ARPA money here that we need to get rid of by XNX a day and we thought we're going to have plenty of options to get rid of this we don't maybe this is a good avenue to invest some money into that similar to what they're doing with Killington at the moment I mean the Killington water system has been talked about for 40 years and there was never a reason to move it forward and PFOS has given everybody the reason to move it forward and now the state is taking a lot of money and kind of pushing everybody in that direction because now's the time to do it and they don't want to be there in another 20 years gone yeah we should have done it done I love PFOS oh PFOS so yeah forever chemicals you've probably seen forever chemicals stuff so forever chemicals PFOS is one of the names there's PFOA there's all kinds of stuff so basically it's all the waterproofing chemicals fire foam chemicals all that sort of stuff that contamination and we're just now getting the sense of what that contamination is it's everywhere the word ubiquitous was made for PFOS we find it so everyone knows about the Bennington area we worked on the north Bennington part of that project there was a polluter they determined they were polluter they had to pay for everything that was a one-off most of this is we go up in the middle of the woods and we find PFOS we don't even know how it got there necessarily anything else around but we're contaminated with it now and now we have to deal with it so those are long range sort of discussions that will impact potential users who are on surface water systems we're finding it in headwaters of streams how it's getting into the headwaters of the streams who the heck knows but precipitates out of the ground it's everywhere everywhere we're looking for it we find it so those are other sort of considerations that are a little bit more abstract but can potentially affect all of your on-site wastewater water supply systems moving forward and now there the burden is on those individual owners to try to figure out how to pay for that and that becomes untenable and another reason why Killington is where they are at because all the business owners are like I can't absorb this O and M cost to continue to treat this we need a water system so I'm not responsible for paying this just for my property so not to digress about the PFOS thing there is no PFOS issue that I'm aware of in middle sex so it's not a conversation that you should be worried about this but when you hear about forever chemicals that is not an abstract thing where that means somewhere else in the country that is everywhere but PFOS I just have a really good question do you have to create a fire district or a water district for this? so there's two options that would be available you can go the fire district route which is a quasi municipality as far as the states are concerned or the municipality can create the infrastructure themselves and basically develop a water system under the auspice of the municipality either or as an option just to be clear the last time we went around the block on this there was really strong feeling that the people in the surrounding community didn't want to pay for water system which would benefit oh I 100% understand that scenario I think we're I mean my understanding of the process unless something has changed is that we would be creating a water district I have to believe I would say I will just say one thing I completely understand that that's why there's a lot of fire districts that exist you will also notice that a lot of fire districts are going away right now about the 40 or 50 year period from when they were created it was the generation who yeah we're going to do this and now the next generation has come up and they have no interest in that whatsoever and it puts some of these systems in a real bind of how does it move to the next generation the municipality allows that kind of form to be in place to say it's just the next people who need to be on the board it's how that survives how you guys go about paying for things and stuff like that those are all municipal decisions related to hey we're just charging users we're not charging the tax base we've got homework to do on that subject and we can get advice I'm sure the state can help us oh absolutely yeah and we've created fire districts we've dissolved fire districts we're in the process of both scenarios right now so there's not a good or a bad it's basically all dependent on the local local considerations yeah yeah a couple things PFAS they're finding it at every school because of the detergents that have been used in the school floor waxes floor wax it's that I mean it's that kind of a product so we're hopeful we haven't tested for it up there we've tested for this many things so far that this would be a solution to that fire districts because we looked at them in the valley when Watesfield we were doing some other things you can use those to cross town lines so fire district can be that way that's one of the values of it if you want to provide water to another place Watesfield I was involved with the water system there that we finally got in place without a sewer hopefully we'll eventually get a sewer one of the things that I saw that works really well there is it was really cheap to tie in initially it's like a couple hundred bucks and if you didn't sign up for that beforehand now if you want to get on it's yours and it's probably five grand or so by the time you dig into the thing dig to the building put in all the new valves all that kind of stuff in so we can think about the kind of incentives that can be in place for this and then the other piece that I just wanted to throw out there that I've sort of learned listening and talking to these guys it seems like the rules and the incentives and the laws are all aimed at not having not encouraging private water systems so if we had a private water system and you wanted to tie on to it it would have to become part of the municipal system anyway I mean that's sort of how I would see it and at that point the seller of that system would probably want something where it's probably easier to make it all into one it's more affordable for all by working together I don't know exactly what that means for a deal I'm not breasting my cards on this one I think that's stuck way off to think about I really appreciate your presentation tonight I think we've got to bring it to a close right now we've all got thinking to do work to do I guess I would be interested in hearing from other select board members are we as a board interested in pursuing this as a project not saying we're going to do it but start the process to see if it makes sense and if there's a way for us to do it for me I think it makes total sense to reach out and see if there's interest amongst the folks in the village to make those connections and conduct that survey that makes sense and again I'm interested in those couple price points differences there as well kind of thinking about making sure we're future proof in some way shape or form I mean that's where I sit I agree Victor Bridget I agree yes so I think that's a first step tonight if you have I presume you have sample paperwork for a survey you could share it with us we can put something together for you guys to take a look at that would be great and I'll just throw this little piece on the table I don't know exactly what that would cost so I'm not going to put myself in too much jeopardy but I know what it is like to be on a select board and never have enough money so we the galaxy we're spending money on this we would foot that so you wouldn't have to be you know sort of hamstrung okay well thank you for that you know I think my intentions are clear if we can find a way to do the best we can for the society that's good for all so Sarah roughly roughly what does it cost to do a mailing I'm sorry I don't I just don't know that number off the top of my head what we're talking about you said there are 190 potential um no I think the number that we had was and that's just parcel numbers so that includes v-trans um BGS yeah we're not talking about we're not talking about real real money but I appreciate your offer analysis and all that stuff so that was a part of that well let's try and get that part done as soon as we reasonably can so if you can touch base with Sarah and get a sample survey to her we can review it and get that out and and see where this goes I mean this is a great opportunity for the town of Middlesex if we can make it work and it works for you and your partner it's all good yeah it's cold working together thank you thank you for coming tonight it was helpful we're viewing and approving the 2023 local emergency plan action likely we received a copy of that um assuming the numbers and emails are correct everyone is verified there's yeah yeah okay we don't have time to go through it in any great detail the contacts I read it it looks very standard so are there any issues or comments is there a motion to approve I'll move that we approve the 2023 local emergency management plan okay all in favor of approving the 2022 emergency management plan please say aye aye any opposed okay we got it right here um treasure support I don't really have anything to do with the finances um I do have a couple things I won't be here at the next meeting but um I put together the orders and you guys can approve the orders and then I will come back and sign the checks the day after the meeting I would fly in that night so um just so you know that I'll be here to sign the checks the next day um the other thing that happened in the last couple weeks is um that I was inquired about bereavement pay that there was an employee who lost a member of the family and they didn't currently take any time or ask for time um but it was that because nobody can do anything right now anyways but there's nothing in the personnel policy about any kind of bereavement time although I kind of feel we had this discussion when um when Shane's um brother-in-law died so um but we never put anything into the policy and I don't recall what the consensus was but if the question comes up I'd like to be prepared to answer it I think the quick answer is it's personal time we don't have bereavement time right is that what we decided in August so it would have to be out of personal time I believe so we're putting on our goals uh reviewing once again the personnel policy but as of right now it's not ending so it's not there okay well they hadn't nobody's asked for anything there's also potentially a vacation spot right so but it's all out of their time okay I couldn't remember to be honest with that we've done it um okay but you were as if we did have a bereavement like let's say you got whatever four days of bereavement for a immediate family member or something like that this person may have been asking oh well we can't actually bury the person until summer so it might come up down the road or something like that I don't know but it didn't come up we just wanted to be prepared for I mean I would I mean my quick answer would be if we allow bereavement time and it was some kind of deferred thing I would think that would be to bereavement time but we don't have it now so okay all right I just wanted to be clear on that in case it comes up but it sounds like you could be part of our goal I know we've got it as a goal to review the personnel policy right do we have a list of our things so are we carrying a list I know I have one that I've started for myself just to remember things but it would be good to have an official list that we're not just talking about the next agenda Sarah don't you make a list for us yeah that would be wonderful we make a list every year but you know but he brings up a good point it's like and I used to do this I put on my calendar like in budget session oh let's not forget to talk about for example the street sweeper right like make sure that that gets in the budget so that we're not forgetting and yeah and so like I'm wondering if there's a better document that we and I mean I could just add it to my other like ARPA document though these are the things like during budget season let's make sure we talk about this because this happens all the time that we like oh yeah let's not forget that maybe I'll just make that I'll make that up right now yeah I can do it I'm just like where is this I don't mean the list of our wishes I mean like random little thoughts that we want to remember cannabis board that's one of them yeah cannabis board is one of them I mean I'm just thinking about even just this whole personnel policy review and the time and now it's bereavement we've talked about you know overtime and you know work days and all kinds of stuff like that so even just under that one topic we've got like six topics as part of that conversation I just want to make sure that we're we don't get there and everybody's like yeah good and then three months later hey we've got to talk about this again right are we doing that now well it was just I brought it up because I didn't know if it was really a goal I just wanted clarity on it I would add that to that personal conversation yeah okay so everybody's favorite topic and it's now five minutes of seven so and we've got some more items we need to cover are we ready to deal with this tonight or do we want to yet again pass it over into our next meeting I think we should start making a little list okay we don't have to spend hours doing it like personnel policy review personnel policy and then put under that bereavement and vacation overtime overtime paid time off yeah work days I think most of those things will bubble to the services we go through it but right doesn't it's easy to forget the bereavement thing or boots boots are to put to rest as far as I'm concerned the other thing that comes up frequently talking about that is the duration of four day work weeks and hours what is the actual period there that's kind of evolved so that conversation as we're going through that we might as well hit it off oh I'm sure we will oh you've got your cannabis board yeah water alright everybody this is stressing me out so write down water and yeah we've got to finish up on ARPA stuff ARPA allocations yep do you have our list from last year or no I do I would have to go downstairs don't bother don't worry about it I can't get into the system from my broken computer it's okay let's add my favorite topic what Welch Park that's only been five years all is on there Welch Park is definitely on there but you've made really great progress last year at town hall I know but that's this year is the year okay we probably need to present to the voters next March something and that's just right around the corner do you think you're going to put a bond on the I think we have to see right like we have to see and so then in the fall let's get this down to apply for municipal energy I would I would include grant grants period because I don't think there's constantly new stuff coming out you know so that as a general topic and getting into specific grants that we're seeking and I would also say not just the town hall but also the town garage town buildings fire department how do you sometimes these things pop up about the rec area up there by the school and you know you keep putting money aside for the tennis courts and things but I'm not sure anything is happening you look at me blankly well so I know I can speak for the budget committee that that was part of that process for this year and allocating money for you know resurfacing tennis courts and basketball posts and all that kind of stuff so I mean really it's relying on the recreation director committee whatever you want to call him and moving forward that process signage for like you guys have talked about trails I'm putting up signs for trails and things like that everything seems to go away the isn't that done by the committee I believe they're doing that I'm just trying to think of things that come up didn't we talk about speed limits we talk about the woods road bridge the bridge that goes across martinsbrook that's going to be paw holes we've patched them two or three times and been patching them since Paul was here there is a grant that will be open this summer specifically to repair bridges in the Build Back Better Program that's something that I'll keep an eye on personally but that we can keep an eye on as a town to apply for we just met with talking with Eric this morning and the people that did that bridge before we were going to give them a call and see if they could roughly tell us what it would cost I think we did it in the 90s sounds right it was in the 90s that we did that bridge before years go by pretty fast they do the new becomes old the municipal energy resilience program so I was just going to say to Steve that I know he's spending a fair bit of time researching some of these grants and what not but if you want to pass any of those specific things onto the select board our emails right on the web page there if you want to gain access to us that would be great Sam knows it so I think you probably already knew that but I do recognize the effort that you're putting into researching this stuff and I find it extremely helpful so if there's stuff that you feel like pertains to us is the water and sewer the Build Back Better too? that is yes that is the drinking water and clean water stay revolving fun through the EPA through the EPA under that program can you talk briefly outside you had mentioned being able to apply for this stuff and you mentioned I talked to Liz a little bit and we do have an entity validation number the town already has one from Sam.gov and we use that number basically to fill out for these grants currently the one that's open that pertains to us other than the rolling one for the drinking water is the preventing outages and enhancing the electric grid formula that opened March 31st the deadline for that is May 31st I just wanted to make sure we were set up because I felt like we would be but that so I presume somewhere in this town hall project the subject of that building across the parking lot is going to come up but I want to make sure that we hopefully deal with that building for once and for all as part of whatever we do with the town hall renovation I would think that that's part of the study that's happening currently in any conversations I don't know that it is I mean there's a whole parking thing that they're going to talk about as part of it but I don't know I don't think that building is a part of it so I'm willing to say I believe we had a goal of two years of finding some good use for that building or we were going to demolish it well the two years is coming gone we've now invested money in painting it last time do it no we deferred the painting we could have a controlled burn well whatever I think this is a lot of goals I think the town hall is huge and the water we go down is like 10 times well then are we going to continue to repair it or not I just every time I go by that building a cold shiver goes down my spine can I use your black pen please yes we should probably hire a grant writer first grant they get will be paid for because I'm not doing all this well that's a good question I mean the whole issue of all these grants if our whole future whether it's water systems building renovations whatever is going to be grant based well we should I mean at the very least we should just first of all look for volunteers do we have awesome there you go thank you who's going to get the binders I'll give you the binders so let's can I say one more thing about the water yeah water and sewers you got to do them kind of together that's what that's what he said roughly you create all these that water creates additional opportunities because you're not worried about proximity to wells don't have so here's what I'm going back into ancient history again but when we went through this process the last time what was determined was the need was water not wastewater okay and they said pretty much the same thing we heard tonight that by not having to worry about the proximity to wells you create opportunities for wastewater now you know we're getting into creating a municipal sewer system that's a whole other kettle of fish gigantic both in terms of cost and maintenance and everything else the town's really got to be open to a lot of growth a lot of what? a lot of growth oh yeah that's what we're supposed to do but the the agency of natural resources Julie Moore and a specifically the guy up on Nautro there at the end of just named Bolio up above you oh you talking about Brian Redman Brian Redman he's in charge of that I don't know if anybody knows him very well he was telling me he was telling me that they had just bootles and oodles of money who had oodles and bootles and money A&R and Julie Moore and that the whole thing maybe we should ask Julie Moore right get our flushes on her I'm going to suggest that we close our discussion on goals for tonight let's everybody review the minutes think of other things we can add things to the goals as we need to always come up with these laundry lists and then we get through about a third of them every year I was just going to say let's put some good ones on there and let's address them I agree yeah Victor I was telling you the number that we do one we do more than one but we certainly don't do the whole list by any stretch ever we did pretty well last year does Paul have his hand up again just a quick question guys and Vic you and Eric might be on this already have we looked into as we looked at bigger goals and capital stuff the feasibility of the pet I know we first opened that up and it's been great we've been getting winter sand out of there do we know like long term what kind of years of service we've got from that to when our budget's going to reflect us have a physical purchase sand elsewhere and all that from further places I haven't been involved in any of that obviously since I left I didn't know if that's something might be worth just keeping on the back burner because it's a big dollar cost obviously we've got the resource now but for how long so I know when we did that and helped me out here Vic Steve and the McCullough boys took a look at that and they had some estimated numbers but I don't remember the number now Paul we look at it from year to year and you know everything changes when you start to run into clay ran into a big big pile of clay so we had to move over into the back towards like Shelly's house it's basically year to year and I mean I think we're going to try to get it out of there this year we certainly got some gravel we crushed on the gravel over there we're using going to use that for this spring McCullough's have told us that they left a crusher and a loader over there and they told us we went over and put new McCullough's went over and put in new batteries and they're letting the town use their loader for nothing to load the trucks over there for this spring which is very good for not running the loader back forth but yeah it's just year to year and then the other thought I was talking with Eric is you know we're going to put we'd like to run a test strip here this summer using complete crushed granite for our road and then we've talked to some other towns and using the like in this case northeast crusher sand for winter sand on it and just over a period of a few years their roads have gotten a lot better and there's no in the springtime there's less mud they've said they straighten themselves out in eight years so we were thinking about doing that because that sand it's so silty that if you put good gravel down it kind of adds quite a bit of silt to that it harms the integrity of the gravel underneath so we're going to try it but for now Paul to answer your question we're going to try to get sand out of there this year I mean we had to that sounded very good I appreciate it I was just curious what the longevity looked like just up there because obviously we only cleared a certain amount so I was curious what things we're looking at at this point because I know that can be a big cost difference for hauling it obviously and it urges that salt so that's our thoughts there good, bad or ugly and like I said we're moving I guess it's kind of north towards like Shelly's house that direction what's the guy's name David Villanose up towards Villanose we good with goals for tonight? yeah good work thank you okay considering the appointment of Dale McDonough to the center of Vermont solid waste management district action likely is there a motion? it's actually a reappointment sorry what's that? it's a reappointment I'd like to reappoint now and is there a second? I can't do both I'll do it thank you Liz all those in favor of the motion please say aye any opposed okay congratulations accepting Matt Shelly's resignation from the middle sex conservation commission slay he's moving to another town okay I'll move that we accept his resignation and thank him for his service yeah second okay thank you all in favor of accepting Matt's resignation please say aye aye any opposed we've approved accepted his resignation considering re-approval of the roots market class to liquor license action likely so moved and a second Randy thank you all those in favor of re-approval of the roots market class to liquor license please say aye aye any opposed and considering re-approval of the locals class one and class two liquor licenses yes so moved you're moving your second no I'm moving your second whatever okay all in favor of re-approval of the locals liquor licenses please say aye aye anybody opposed we've approved it thank you update on the 28 rich road FEMA buyout no action I'm gonna make this really brief I thought that I was gonna tell you that we're gonna do a closing on the property made third but the owner of the property has said that she needs more time to find a place to live so that has been put off for at least a month which will means it will be put off for at least another month because it takes three days to put a HUD statement together so that project has no chance of starting until at the very earliest July July and what's our time frame it expires the grant expires the project expires in October and my only comment on that is that at some point in time we've got a pin in that if it can't happen if she can it's the balls in her court we've done everything to make it possible for her it's not our job to find her a place to live correspondence I received some correspondence that I forwarded to the month to the conservation commission because a person who a vineyard owner who's been working on Portal Road on Jean Jocelyn's old property has been growing grapes has gone to the Vermont land trust to acquire this put a conservation he's been on this land it's going to result in the in the VLT asking for a $2,500 donation from the town from the conservation fund toward this purchase the first it usually goes before the conservation commission so the conservation commission is meeting on Thursday they'll consider it and then they'll come here that's the only correspondence we have that was directed to the select board besides anything so there's no action acquired by us now no it's just not just giving a heads up that's what's coming down the pike it was correspondence any other business anyone Eric will be on next week yeah files is going to be in charge files is asked that I go over every day to get started good I'm glad because they're almost done is there any other business okay no sir thank you one and all we are adjourned