 So from a from a labor standpoint when builders see that and hear that and they realize man This is going to extend the life of my my crew It's easier for them. They love it They really start to perk up and they think they're on to something Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials marketing podcast Helping you find better ways to grow leads sales and outperform your competition All right, everybody welcome to Smarter Building Materials marketing where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson I am Zach Williams alongside my co-host Beth Popney-Glov and today we've got a great show line for you today We are really excited to welcome Jim Cotty. He is the executive director of the Georgia Ready Mix Concrete Association It's a very timely conversation considering everything happening with lumber prices Labor shortages we've got a lot of hot questions for you. So Jimmy, welcome to the show. I appreciate you having me on here today Jimmy if you don't mind before we dive into everything we're dying to ask you Can you give our listeners a bit of background on who you are and tell us a bit about the Georgia Ready Mix Concrete Association as well? Yeah, absolutely. Again, my name is Jimmy Cotty. I'm the executive director of the Georgia Ready Mix Concrete Association Down here in the Atlanta, Georgia area. I've been the executive director now here for about 11 years and and prior to that I work on staff with the Georgia Construction Aggregate Association, the Crushstone guys for another five years So I've been in the nonprofit world, but in the construction materials sector for about 15-16 years now I've been I kind of got in at a boom time in 2006 and then I switched jobs to the Ready Mix Association As we were sort of hitting a trough in the economy and I've been here and kind of watched our guys sort of Plug and dig their way out of the recession period of the early 2010s and It's just it's become a real great market here again in Georgia And everybody's they're running pretty wide open these days. There hasn't been much slowdown at all the last couple of years even COVID included here in Georgia. We stayed open for business and You know, we were actually I think 2020 we ended up being up about 1% of for 2019 2019 was our biggest year since 2006 to that point. So we've just seen steady growth here. Georgia's a great place to live and work and You know, we continue to import people here. So we got to build homes We got to build schools. We got to build places to shop and play and all that kind of stuff So you're always going to be concrete. So they call our guys I'm really curious to hear about the conversations. You're having Jimmy with builders and those in the development community Are you having very different conversations today than you were let's say even 18 months ago? I mean, yes and no it depends on it depends on where you are Which market of the state you're in You know, obviously the big the biggest issue right now Everybody's talking about is the price of lumber. Yeah, and and how that impacts construction You know, I've talked to some of my ready-mix suppliers who say, you know They've got builders and certain markets that are just sitting on the sidelines waiting because I mean they're not building in a market where they can get the return on on the The investment as opposed to Atlanta where prices continue to climb so building hasn't really slowed down but Certainly there's concern around the price of materials the availability of materials the availability of labor is another major issue and guys just kind of wondering How they're going to build stuff going forward and where they're going to find the people to do it because the demand is still there Heavily here in Georgia. So those are the primary issues. We're trying to solve And the reason I was asking the question about the conversations is, you know The cost and price of lumber right now as you mentioned is just crazy We were talking before the show started in the average home what the cost of lumber's up with 24k on Average per home for the lumber package. And so I'm curious are you when I say are you having different conversations? Is it our builders considering different types of materials? Based upon cost as well as availability and obviously concrete There's a lot of different use cases for it and that's a shameless plug But I'm just curious to hear from your perspective Like are people buying ICF more are they considering it more and there's a lot of obviously other alternatives But I'm just curious to hear are people trying new products because of the current climate Or is it are you having different types of conversations even above that or beyond that? Yeah, we're absolutely seeing a ton of interest in ICF insulated concrete foam products for residential construction and even even in some commercial multifamily stuff, you know, it's It's it's a product that's been around for a while But I would probably say in the last five to ten years is really kind of come into its own Where people have really figured out how to use it appropriately. They figured out how to educate others And so really as as that sort of segment of the industry has matured from a timing perspective we've sort of hit this this maturity level where we're kind of ready to go big, you know and It's coinciding with a spike in traditional building materials And you know with with builders and engineers and architects, you know, kind of the tough nut to crack with them sometimes is They're successful with a certain Process or material that they become accustomed to they don't really want to get away from it They don't want to be responsible if you try something new and something goes goes awry so But but money talks, right? So we're in this environment where people are saying man We've maybe we really do need to start considering this and you know our industry the concrete industry So we we haven't that I'm with the Georgia ready mix Congress Concrete Association we have a natural ready mix concrete Association and most states Across the country they have their own state associations as well We all kind of work in concert with each other We have something called the the concrete design center and and the idea is that if if you're a developer And you've got some land or you've got a project that you want to build but now you're It might be cost prohibitive well, we have the ability through the concrete design center to come in and Take your existing plans with knowledgeable architects and engineers who've been designing with icf for for long for a long time And sort of walk you through what an icf build would look like and what it would do for you because really When people think about icf they say well concrete's expensive and wood's not as expensive so if you're subbing out That the wood for concrete you're going to be more expensive and and really what icf is it's not It's not a product substitute. It's a it's a building system It's an exterior envelope building system So when you build your icf walls and you pour those walls Really you've combined your structural elements your insulation Your furring your vapor barrier You've condensed that all down into one step And so the labor necessary You know, you might have a framing crew ready to go But you can't get an insulation guy out there for a while or vice versa or something like that So when you're building with icf you're really condensing several trades down into one step And it gives you the opportunity to move faster with your construction schedule And it gives you the opportunity to have a Just a better more durable storm resilient energy efficient of structure You mentioned something jimmy that comes up a lot and that we know to be true, which is you know architects engineers builders They are they're sticking with their process because that's partly how they remain profitable That's how they protect themselves from a reputation and liability standpoint There's hundreds of reasons that we know why that's how they need to operate Obviously the availability issues and continued issues of labor shortage have thrown that for a bit of a loop As you're talking with these Professionals about what it would look like to build with icf instead of lumber When do you start to see it click? What's the aha moment where for so many of them that one takeaway is really what starts to convert them to selecting icf. Well, let's talk about the let's talk about the labor, you know You know, I just said, uh, you know, you're condensing several steps down into one when you're using an icf building system You know, when you when you talk to builders really where they kind of light up is um You know, they think about where are we going to where are we going to find the labor? Where are we who are the people that who's our target audience is sort of training To to build with this stuff. So, you know, you have concrete mason's do very well with this Uh concrete form workers Carpenters even and then even existing framers Um, was talking to a guy yesterday. Uh, his framers got trained You know, so they could do both. He's like, they're not they're not even interested in doing Wood framing anymore and I'll tell you why Um, you know, you think about is the workforce gets older Think about the the wear and tear on the workers moving concrete block around the weight of that moving Wood around and how much labor intensive that takes so you could do You could use various icf and you could have one person basically Moving and stacking a 12 foot square area of the interior next to your wall at the same time You know, these guys love it because it's so easy to handle and move around And then they're stacking it and then all and then when the uh pump truck comes, you know, they're They're managing the poor So from a from a labor standpoint when builders see that and hear that and they realize Man, this is going to extend the life of my Uh my crew Um, it's easier for them. They love it They really start to perk up and they they think they're onto something What we have found is people that that gravitate towards this stuff and once they do it a couple times And they see the ease they see the time they see the savings and then say you like you're a I don't know say you're doing multifamily. You know, you think about having icf Ceilings and floors and walls Well, that's going to be silent. You know for the people living in there I mean, they're not going to hear the people next door or under them or over them um You know, like in multifamily some studies have shown that you know icfs They're they have 10 less vacancies than the stick built stuff And then they have the opportunity also to charge more and rent because of the quality of their building You know that the energy savings there are tremendous the silence is tremendous So guys like that once they kind of dip a toe in the water We find that they they almost want to Horde it if you will in the sense that they don't want to tell anyone their secret sauce on on on their new construction system What I what I think that you're saying it's interesting Jimmy is that you know, even with labor shortage and with You know the cost of materials right now You know the category that you're playing in and concrete and icf You're still finding ways to sell value proposition in a way that Or present your value proposition in a way that people are hearing, you know, whether that's sound or you're thinking about ease of construction I'm curious to get your perspective though on how are you trying to encourage a younger generation to get into labor Like to get into You know, whether that's being you know a mason some capacity or you know, even maybe even outside of the concrete industry Are you seeing any other categories or industries that are Getting people into the trade because that's really I mean we have to not just focus on ease of use today But how do they get more to lend to it tomorrow? Sure, absolutely. I mean we we have other nonprofit organizations we partner with The construction education foundation of georgia has done a tremendous job for for decades really and sort of promoting trades You know in all various forms of construction and they have partnerships with various High schools where they have programs throughout the state all over the state. They have a very large Trade show if you will every year Where different segments of the industry sort of set up boost space if you will I mean we're there You know road builders are there The mining industry is there electrical contractors are there hvc guys mechanical guys there So they they sort of at least in georgia We've we've sort of looked at them as a partner in terms of just sort of letting folks know that There are alternatives To going to the four-year college and you know for us as ready-mix producers, you know our biggest labor issue is drivers, right? Interesting but from the And so from the trades perspective, you know, yeah, it's it's fighting the people and the skilled people They can do that. I mean so the young people we we do these construction fairs We uh, we have programs in schools that we partner with on various Uh at various times during the year And uh, and you know, whether it's providing concrete to actually do something hands-on we we've had members that do some of that kind of stuff Um And so it's it's a real partnership like, you know, the general contractors are really bought into it And so they're the ones that kind of They sort of lead us, you know, the gcs are going to be looking for people of you know, they need every trade on the job, right? Whether it's their own people whether it's subbed out And so they're they're very big on the education promotion piece here in georgia And they do a good job of making sure that their ready-mix partners and others are involved in uh in promoting Our industry our broader construction industry to these schools You know, jimmy you're such a unique viewpoint from where you are and the connections that you have and conversations that you have With tradesmen with different pros in the channel As you think about the conversations you're having with them the questions and pain points that they're going through at this time Are there any manufacturers? Who's marketing or messaging or connection with the pros really sticks out to you that you think is doing a good job reaching them I mean, yeah in the icf world, I think there's maybe Six to ten Uh called the block manufacturers. So it's kind of a small world But really, you know with those guys um their whole key is education and they all have what they that various certification programs for their products, right and you know, the idea is that They want folks to be successful with this product, right because that will yield more demand from a lot And so each of them have Programs in the house to to more or less certify you I mean this stuff can be promoted as like a almost like a diy type of product, but You know the more education and knowledge you have about it the the better you're going to do um handling it so I mean these guys they do an outstanding job madura fox blocks for people that are doing it for the first second third time I mean they come out and they they they hold your hand As much through the processes you need or want them to Because they have a vested interest in you having a Uh good performance out of your product and out of your people Uh, they want to see that happen. So they they really bend over Backwards to ensure that that projects go well. There's tons of resources out there Um through them our own RN in rmca again, I'll mention the concrete design center in terms of Just making people understand What they're dealing with before they even start start stacking lot, you know everything in terms of From from cost and and various other savings on down So, uh, we're doing we're we're our industries partnered with Habitat for Humanity both here in georgia and nashley And we're about to kick off a habitat build over in Athens, georgia, and we've kind of walked Uh the local habitat chapter through this process. We gave them the the full boat in terms of a design assistance report Uh helping them understand, you know the various cost savings they may experience I know the family want the family that's going to live in this house is super excited about it because once it was explained to them What icf was it was kind of like a Sort of a no brainer. It's like why would I not want to live in a house that's You know more resistant to tornadoes and it's going to cost me less on my energy bill every month and stuff like that So that's the consumer aspect of it that that people don't know Um, just how I like that Yeah, I like that idea partnering with you know habitat for humanity or other organizations like that because It's it's not only a way to get back But also a good way to get your product out there In the hands of people actually might be building or in that space in some capacity because you never know how that story might get passed along, you know Yeah, well, you know I for me I think when I look back sort of on the history of icf's act To me, I think one of the problems the industry always had in sort of promoting it was traditionally it was large custom homes that had been built out of icf that really You know a very small percentage of the population is ever going to have an opportunity either build or purchase and live in And it's for me It's more like how do we get this for mainstream? How do we get this into markets where the price point Is going to be available to 70 of home buyers out there, you know, and so we're we're doing a 15,000 square foot home custom home in one area town But really the one I'm excited about is this 1500 square foot home over in Athens It's going to be it's going to be simple. It's going to be easy but it's going to be So nice for the people that live in there That I mean you think about this home, you know, you mentioned young people. How do you get them interested? Well You know you talk about efficiencies and homes and how to be sustainable Imagine building a home where you're going to need, you know, 50 less energy to operate the home on a day to day basis Yeah, I think that's a great. It's a great narrative How are you getting in front of that builder to share that story? Is it happening just because the lumber is so price prohibitive right now or there are other things that you're doing to go? Hey, we actually think you can charge more or we think that there's a new opportunity If you were to consider it with this type of, you know, homeowner What are you doing to break that noise? So so there's there's different ways that we and others have have approached this issue. There's um You know, a lot of what we rely on is uh, our own ready mix supplier members They have even broader relationships with the with the building community than then even we do in our our own office here And so they'll We educate our members on some of the programs and things that they can do to put in front of customers So like I've got a guy out near Lake Ocone Uh, he's got builders that are kind of sitting on the sideline and and I'm saying and he's saying How how can we get this guy working? I said, well, let's let's go talk to him about ICF I mean, you've got the relationship with them. Let's set up a meeting. Let's go out and sit down I can bring in some other resources if need be but let's let him know he's got some alternatives You know, even though we run our own association a lot of us and me and my colleagues in other state chapters, you know We try to get involved with our various local engineering associations or architectural associations or um, you know, we just did a We did kind of a zoom cast if you will with the local whole builders association here About ICS and just got tremendous response and even for The people that jumped on the call the people that couldn't jump on the call I mean for two weeks afterwards we were getting emailed about how can we get a recording of the call and whatnot? So You know, I try to build those relationships at the non-profit level Because I know that I can provide material that can kind of go out in mass to those membership organizations and then we rely a lot on Just suppliers in the market that say Hey, there's you know, there's a guy that's he was going to do a project. He's put it on hold Can we can we get some stuff to him about ICS? Yeah, and see that would trigger some interest And uh, so that's generally kind of how we do it here and how most of my colleagues. I think do it Uh, particularly in the southeast That's great, jimmy. This has been excellent. Thank you so much for coming on the show if our listeners want to get in touch with you What's the best way for them to do that? Yeah, I mean you can just uh visit our website, uh, georgia ready mix concrete association is g a like georgia g a concrete Dot org and I appreciate your time today zack and and thank you guys for having me on your show And for our listeners, if you like this content, make sure you go to venvio.com slash podcasts to subscribe Until next time i'm zack wins alongside beth popnikov. Thanks everybody