 The Committee of the Whole is called to order, except I better put on my microphone. The Committee of the Whole is called to order. Let's turn down those fans before they dehead us. Thank you for coming this evening. What do we need to do to turn on Alderman Davis's, I have my microphone on. What else do we need to turn on so that you're turned on? An electric switch. Any sound coming through yet? Any sound coming through yet? You don't. Okay. Yours is working. Alderman Davis, yours is not working. There's nothing that I control up here, Alderman Davis. We will talk as loudly as we can. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you, Council for being here. Thank you, Council for being here. I don't know that Committee of the Whole, yes. Shall we do a roll call? Yes, please. Go ahead, Alderman Graf. Bowman. Here. Dever. Here. Dever, here. Serda. Here. Davis. Here. Kittleson. Here. Manning. Here. Meyer. Here. Montanerar. Here. Ratty. Here. Segali. Here. Steffen. Here. Sousha. Here. Van Akron. Here. Vanderwillig. Here. Sixteen present. Corms present for Committee of the Whole. I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the last meeting held September 12, 2005. Do I hear a second? Any discussion on the approval of the minutes? Here. Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Nay. Minutes approved. Agenda item number four and number five sort of go together. It's about the municipal court. I think we're all caught up on all the information. All of the new Alderman have the information needed to make a determination. We've all listened. We've all thought. We've all, hopefully, understand a lot. Deputy Chief Sherman, do you want to add something, some information for us this evening? Yes. Recently we were asked to give our opinion on this issue. The issue of a municipal court has placed the Cheboygan Police Department in a dilemma. We assigned court services, Sergeant Kotolski, to sit on this committee. We reported back that the municipal court should save the city money by lessening overtime and by raising revenue directly to the city. Yet, start-up costs of this project is a concern. While the Cheboygan Police Department supports the concept of a municipal court, the reality is that this court is very low on our list of priorities. We respect and support the mayor's and the council's efforts to control costs and to reduce departmental budgets. In preparing for this statement, administration determined that our priorities are police personnel, police vehicles, obtaining video recorders for cars, the purchase of tasers, and the routine items placed in our budget. It is important to be mindful of the fact that the state has mandated recording in custody interviews for juveniles, and this is a concept that could be later mandated to include adults. These mandates will incur a greater cost to the city. In summary, administration's priorities are personnel, patrol vehicles, video recorders, tasers, and other items routinely budgeted for. Municipal court has a much lower priority when we are addressing the day-to-day operation of our department. Thank you. Thank you, Deputy Chief Sherwin. Alderman Segali. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to first of all thank Deputy Chief Sherwin for his ideas on this. I think that I still think the municipal court is something that we need considering the fact that next year the real tax is going to be phased out. We are going to be needing some type of revenue to try to supplement that, and I feel that the municipal court is a very good way of starting. So I will be voting in favor of the municipal court, but I also want to let Deputy Chief Sherwin know that I know where they're coming from and what their priorities are. Thank you. Thank you, Alderman Segali. Pete Fullerton, would you say a couple of words to us? You both have the building inspection end of it. Thank you. From a building inspection concept, I talked to the building inspectors on several occasions. In regards to, we weren't, I was not involved in the year-long study and really have no comment on that other than the fact that since the building inspections department has been able to issue citations, that has helped us a lot. We feel as though that has brought teeth into what we were doing. We still go about the day-to-day activities of issuing letters when there's noncompliance, but from our building inspection standpoint, the issuing of citations has helped. Oh, thank you. That's good to hear. Thank you so much, Mr. Fullerton. Alderman Dan Burr. Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, most of us were here that night when that presentation was given and Attorney Adams also said that having a municipal court is going to hurry a lot of things up. The biggest thing about the municipal court is you're going to be able to handle these slum landlords, your absentee landlords, your land owners that do not keep up their properties in all the neighborhoods. The inspection department, yes, they got the citations now. They got some teeth. They can get these people into the municipal court a lot faster than they will in the circuit court, because like I said a week or so ago, I am still fighting the guy down the street by me, and this is 15 years now. And we all know how long it took for the one that we settled. This is one way, and after several years, we know this is going to be a revenue maker. So I will stick in favor of the municipal court. Thank you, Alderman Dan Burr. Alderman Eldenburg. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I believe in order to continue the discussion, it's likely we should have a motion on the floor. And with that in mind, I will move to file RC 910506 and also the general ordinance, the ordinance repealing division three, which is item five on the agenda. I hear a motion to second to file agenda item number four, agenda item number five. Any further discussion? Alderman Graf. And a motion to file, then that would mean that we would do the municipal court. Is that correct? Correct. Okay, then under discussion, Madam Chairman. Referring to what Alderman D. Burr just said, I spoke with the clerk of courts this morning and I asked her because of several changes that are taking place, is there additional time that the city, Sheboygan could have for their hearings in circuit court? And she informed me that she had spoken to the judges and the judges are very open to having us meet with them and establish some type of system. They said, we were talking to one of the judges in particular and he said something about that in all the years he's been serving. He has yet to hear from the city of Sheboygan as far as what they needed or what they'd like to see as far as the circuit court goes and how it, if they needed more time or not. The only thing they've heard is because there was a problem that we couldn't come to circuit court or something like that. We had to cancel a hearing or we didn't have enough information. We canceled hearings more than we asked for additional hearings. Now, he had also said something about, well, maybe you need to hire additional attorneys in the city and I didn't think that was appropriate to say yes or no to, but my own feelings is no. But I think we need to work with the circuit courts and meet with the judges to determine if there's a schedule we can set up that would give us more opportunity to have cases heard on a more timely basis. So I will be not supporting the motion to file because I'd like to see us not do the municipal court. Thank you Alderman Graf. Alderman Stephan. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm kind of torn on this one. The reason I supported it in the past was one thing that stuck in my head was police overtime, which has been my pet peeve. And I guess I'd ask the deputy chief, I asked for the numbers on what percentage of police overtime could be attributed to the municipal, to court time. And the number I got, I believe was $16,000. $14,000. Okay. So even if we cut it, it's not a huge amount to begin with. In finance two weeks ago, and you know, some of these documents you get every month and all of a sudden you start reading them, we approved from the clerk of courts the money to the treasurer of Sheboygan. And I noticed that there's officer fees for August to $1,000 and the witness fees were $387. So we had a discussion on what they meant. And I don't know if attorney Adams could clarify this but because the letter doesn't really clarify. It says the officer fee is a $12 court charge on criminal matters that has passed on to the municipality. This fee would not be under the municipal court and therefore would continue as a county payment if a municipal court was found, formed. So do you have any understanding of that or that kind of, to me that conflicted that statement and even that time to check it out or anything. The officer fees are the fees that are paid for the officers to testify there. When you go to court, there is a fee that's applied. The defendant has to pay that fee if they're convicted and that gets paid then to the officers. Okay, but there's two different fees. I think you're talking about the officer witness fees. Right. Okay. Then there's also something called the officer fees and that's just $12 court cost that's charged on criminal matters. Yeah. Well, if it's criminal matters, that wouldn't change because the municipal court- Because we would be doing criminal matters. Right. We would not be doing criminal matters, right? Okay. Thanks much. Thank you, Alderman Stephan. Deputy Chief Sherman, are there many cases that the police need to go to the courthouse that aren't criminal? That aren't criminal? That aren't criminal, right. Well, it depends on how the court system would be set up. If it would be set up with the municipal court, then we wouldn't need to go to the courthouse with it. We don't go to the DA's office to visit the DA regarding misdemeanor cases or felony cases like we used to. So it would still include the officers going over for felony and misdemeanor cases. But if it was set up for a municipal court, then the officers wouldn't need to go over to the courthouse. Thank you, Deputy Chief. Alderman Dan Burke. Thank you, Your Honor. Madam Chair, Alderman Graff said we could talk to the clerk over there. When you're scheduled, we got a notice to appear in court at 2.30 for the problems we were going through for ordinances. And at 2.30, there were 17 people scheduled for 2.30. You get there and you fill out a form and everything else, then you sit down and they start calling off these people. And by the time we were scheduled to appear for this hearing, all of a sudden the bailiff said there is no more time for any ordinance cases. The rest of the day will be dedicated to criminal cases. So we will send you notice within 30 to 60 days. And like I said, that 30 to 60 days has gone into 15 years. Thank you, Alderman Dan Burke. Alderman Graff, is that what he was talking about on the spot? Scheduling? No, he was talking about setting up a certain schedule where our cases could be heard and only our cases would be called. But the clerk and I talked about this morning and she said you'd have to talk to the judges and set that up and the judges meet on Tuesdays once a month, I think, or something like that. Alderman Meyer. Thank you, Madam Chair. Right now I believe there is some kind of bill in the state that is going to change the way the fines are, the piece of money that the state takes from the fines. And that was one of the reasons they say the municipal court would be better because people's fines would be lower. But the way I'm understanding it is once this loophole is taken care of, the fines will not be lower than the municipal court, they will be probably as high as the circuit court. And seeing that we are projected to lose money the first few years with this municipal court, I can't support it because right now we're getting almost half a million dollars from the circuit court. And at this point in time our city cannot afford to lose money. And we're going to build a police station and we cannot add this municipal court to it at this time, so I cannot support it. Thank you Alderman Meyer. Alderman Vanderweel. Thank you Madam Chair. I have a question for Attorney Chuck Adams, Assistant Attorney. Would you be able to give us your opinion or your view of the conversation that Alderman Graf had with the county clerk? Well I wasn't part of the conversation. From what you heard tonight. I don't know, we've discussed with the judges ways of trying to make things a little easier. Unfortunately there's five different judges who have five different ideas on that and that's been an issue. One judge will say why don't we set aside a particular day, another judge says no that doesn't work. We've tried over the years to do things and the issue really comes as far as scheduling goes is A, there's really two issues. One is how busy are they. The second is that they don't really communicate over there as far as their scheduling and so I'll be scheduled to be in three or four places at once. So then we have to move things as a result of that. So part of it is how busy they are, part of it is how busy I am. Thank you. Madam Chair, Chuck before you leave. You're the only one that handles the ordinance cases. Right. I was going to say Alderman McLean. Attorney McLean does not. Right, typically he does not handle the ordinance cases. We'll fill in for each other as needed but typically I handle all the ordinances. That's what I was hired to do. Alderman Venakker. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to open the floor to the public. I know there's one person back there that wants to speak. Do we have a second? There's been a motion and a second to open the floor to the public. Any discussion on that motion? I think let's do a roll call on that. Opening the floor. No, I don't think we need to. All right, all in favor? All right. Opposed? I think you're absolutely right. All right, citizen back in the gallery who would like to speak. Mr. Storm. I'm Milton Storm. I reside at 1736 Marvin Court. Thank you. And I've probably weekly or every day sometimes I appear in court three times a week, sometimes two, sometimes even every day. And most of them that I appear to are for our cases that are criminal for our neighbors against drugs. But while I'm sitting there, I may be sitting through about 14 cases that could be handled by the municipal court. And even the defendants that are there, they are scheduled at nine o'clock when we don't get to their case until about 1030. And that's one reason I think that forget the financial things. We need a municipal court. And people who would give me all of these rhetoric that it's going to cost us money. Money doesn't matter. I think the safety and protection of this community is more important than the money. We'll get the money. I don't want to clue the bag. And I've talked to all the judges. I did shape up Judge Bogart in one of the cases. And it is really frustrating for people that go to court. I listed mostly people who come along with me one sometimes and sit there. And some of those benches are pretty hard. And sometimes, you know, my mind can only comprehend as much as my seat can endure. And my mother saw to that too. That's why I've got a good constitution. So I'm really in favor of the municipal court. We'll get it paid for. I think people who give us all this rhetoric about the financial thing, don't know anything about finances. I have a niece who is a financial planner. And she is in her own business. So I also took four years of mathematics, three in high school and one in University of Wisconsin. I only went one year to college. Then I let my identical twin brother go. I had to work on a farm to get him through. He's got two master's degrees and he was also considered a professor at the University of Wisconsin when he worked for the Midwest University Research Association. Then he also has two sons and their trial attorneys in the state of Illinois. So I'm all in favor for a municipal court. And I think that this common council could do very good if they give a favorable action to that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Storm. As long as the floor is open, I see Citizen Montemayor would like to say a few words. Thank you, Madam Chair. I sat here last year when the discussion for this court was done on this community of the whole and it took me a little while to realize that something was wrong because the words that were used were like revenues. You have to have the right judge in place. And this thing went on and you have to have the right judge in place came up quite a few times and you have to have a conviction rate of about 88% to make money on this court. Finally, an alderman got up toward the end of this thing and said, do you mean we have to have like a hanging judge? And he answered, it was yes. You have to have a high conviction rate. Then the very last thing one alderman said, he says we could write more tickets. I almost fell off that chair. Then I realized that this wasn't being televised. When I asked the former mayor of the city after we adjourned, I said, will this thing be televised? He said, no. I said, why not? He said, because nobody requested it. Otherwise, a lot of these words would not be used. Here we're trying to create tourism in this city and we're creating a speed trap money gouging community. Something like this spreads like wildfire. This would be nothing but a double thing, a duplicate of services from three bucks away that we abolished in 1954. We had a municipal court in the city. We abolished it. When I asked, why did we abolish it? Nobody's ever gave me an answer. I don't think we need this court. It's actually a duplication of services. Thank you. Thank you, citizen Montemayor. Any further comments or shall we vote? Remember, an I vote would be to do the court, to have the court. Because the documents here are to not at the court, to be sent. An I vote is to, yes, go ahead with the court. Alderman Graf. D. Berg. Aye. E. Berg. Aye. Serta. Aye. Davis. Aye. Raffer's no. Kittleson. Aye. Manny. Aye. Meyer. No. Montemayor. No. Radke. No. Sagali. Aye. Stefan. Susha. No. Van Ackeren. Aye. Vander wheelie. Aye. Five noes. 11 yes. Motion carries. Okay, Alderman, think about where you're going to find the money. Okay, let's move on. Now, can we please move forward to number, to Dr. Tapel. Dr. Tapel has an early, early appointment in the morning, so let us go forward with that. Yes, please. Agenda item number nine. Dr. Tapel submitted a communication stating he wants legislation to change the public forum procedures to increase the number of people able to speak from five to 12 and eliminate the time limits, change the council procedures to give each member of council the opportunity to bring in citizen's concerns, ideas, suggestions, et cetera, and to ask for a roll call on all documents instead of hiding documents in the consent agenda. Do we need a motion before Dr. Tapel speaks? We should have a motion and I would make a motion that we accept and file the communication. I second. Dr. Tapel. Yes, please. Madam Chairman, Mayor Perez and members of the council, when I come to this council chambers, I always think of this being the people's house of Sheboygan. And as a new council and new mayor started this spring, the public is looking for changes. And I think we need to think outside of the box and not just do it because we always did it that way. At the beginning of your council meetings, members of the council, you have public input. And at this point, your guidelines or your ordinances are limited to five people. And I'm asking you for consideration that you do away with a number. Maybe some council meetings you'll have one person. Maybe some meetings there'll be none, but maybe some evening there'll be 10. And I think you should keep that open to not a certain number. And then in connection with that, I would ask you to favor to eliminate the five minutes. I don't mind if the city clerk would say, you know, you had five minutes, but that way the individual, the man or lady from the committee will realize they're not going to take all evening. I think we have turned off citizens by being short to them by saying your time is up and so forth is. So let's not limit public input members of the council. Let's have more people come here. And also let's give them the chance to bring their ideas. Secondly, in connection with the public input of having no limit as far as time and number of people, there was a custom in the council that each member of the council at the beginning of the meeting after the pledge and the roll call would bring in their citizen communication. I'm going to use my two fine members, Meyer and Stefan. For instance, if a member of the neighborhood wrote to Alderman Stefan and said, I need a streetlight on this certain street, instead of just filing it with a department head or with a city clerk, I think it is good that if Alderman Stefan would bring it in here to the public. The same way if Alderman Meyer received a letter from a citizen, whether it be in her neighborhood or throughout the city and said, I would like to have this certain street repaved or resurfaced it and so forth. I think it was healthy when the members of the council brought in those citizen ideas. You, the members of the council are being watched. And I say that in very positive ways. The people of the city of Sheboygan enjoy watching city government. And all I ask is make it a little bit more simpler, make it a little bit more understanding and give them a chance to say yes. I gave my idea to Alderman Segal and she brought it in to the attention. It's not going to take a lot of time, but I think it was a positive item. Last item, members of the council, you know you have the consent agenda. I was part of the consent agenda also. And I realized that you have as a voting member of the council the right to pull an item from the consent agenda. But I ask you to make it more meaningful to our public because you might have 20 items on that consent agenda. And what's all in there? It wouldn't take long for Alderman Vanderbilt to say consent agenda number one deals with a traffic light. Number two deals with, I ask you, let's make our council close to the people and a little more informative. And I want to, before I end, I want to thank each of you for the service that you give in your committee meetings, in your committee of the whole meetings, your council meetings, and then also your constituent services. Thank you for considering my ideas. Thank you, Dr. Table. You are a true gentleman. Thank you for being here. Thank you for submitting some suggestions to us. Do we have any discussion on some of Dr. Table's ideas? Seeing none, we'll take a vote. I don't think we need a roll call. I don't think we need a roll call. Any, we had a second, we had a motion and a second to file Dr. Table's communication. He explained very nicely to us what his letter was about. I see no further discussion. We'll go ahead and vote. All those in favor of filing? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you, Dr. Table. Agenda item number six. Submitting a communication from William Gehring, Sheboyan County Board Chairman, regarding the history of contact between the city and county, regarding the North 23rd Street site as a potential site for the new police station. This is simply some housekeeping that we need to file. Alderman Dan Berg. That's what I was going to do, Madam Chair. Just going to say that the issue is dead and gone. Accept and file. We have a motion to accept and file. Any discussion? All those in favor? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Agenda item number seven. Communication from the Sheboyan lodging group that I think Dan Berg will again agree with this has been acted upon. This is some housekeeping we need to do. I'll entertain a motion to file. So moved. Second. Second. We have a motion and a second to file our own number 274-05-06 by the city clerk. Any discussion? Seeing none. All those in favor? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Agenda item number. No. Opposed? Opposed? Sorry. Agenda item number eight. A communication from James Boran stating that he is enthusiastic about the proposed spaceport Sheboygan and also stating his general areas of concern regarding this project and asking for answers to his questions. I spoke on the telephone to James Boran. He did talk with Paulette. He got lots of his questions answered and he said as far as he's concerned this communication for this evening should simply be filed. He was very happy with talking with Paulette Enders. I'll entertain a motion to file. Alderman Dan Burke. I talked to Mr. Boran just before we got here and he said he would really like to make sure what it says in the contract with those people with the spaceport that if and when, if it would ever belly up that we don't get caught with our pants down or whatever Go ahead. Yes. Mr. Boran was very happy with the conversation with Paulette and I think he made that very clear. Yes. Thank you. And in our conversation I also mentioned that I would follow up with a letter after speaking to the consultant and the developer, the SDC, the Sheboygan Development Corporation. And I did make some of his notes. I took his notes down in his concerns and I guess Alderperson Montemire did mention he seemed happy with that but then also happy that we were going to respond back in writing. Yes. Thank you so much for Ms. Enders for doing such a good job. We have a motion to second to file agenda item number eight. Any further discussion? All those in favor signify by stating aye. Aye. Opposed? Agenda item number 10. A communication from former Mayor Richard Sousha. I spoke with him and he said he's very happy with the way we're conducting business. So I said thank you Mayor Sousha. And he also said now that this communication is coming to committee of the whole he also failed to no further discussion was needed. So I'll enter take a motion to file. Second. Second. Any discussion? Alderman Eldenberg. Yes. Thank you Madam Chairman. As a follow-up to Dr. Table's idea I believe at the chair's discretion we could have public comment as part of the committee of the whole meeting and I think from time to time there are certain hot button issues that confront the committee of the whole prior to a council meeting and I will only say one possible opportunity we'd have for citizen input that would hopefully allow us to run an efficient council meeting would be to schedule public comment at your discretion during the committee of the whole meeting so that just is a comment. Thank you Alderman Berg and let's hope we don't have so many hot button items in the future. Did we vote on that one yet? No. Any further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Your motion passes. Communication number 11. A communication from John Winter and I think everything on his communication has been handled and been addressed so far so I'll entertain a motion to file. A second. Any discussion? Alderman Serda. Thank you Madam Chair did you also make contact with Mr. Winter concerning his communication? No I looked in the telephone book I found no address no telephone number and I assumed being on the police force he would have gotten this agenda when it was sent. So you contacted the other individuals you spoke to Mr. Boren? Yes. But you didn't make contact? John Winter no there was no way for me to get in contact with him. Okay just for procedure purposes I would make a motion to hold then just to give him the same courtesy. Second. Any further discussion on the motion to hold? All those in favor of holding signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? No. No. Roll call. This is aye to hold nay to not hold. Eberg. Serda. Aye. Davis. Aye. Graf is nay. Kelsen. Aye. Manny. Aye. Meyer. No. Montemure. No. Ratke. No. Segali. Aye. Stefan. No. Susha. No. Van Akron. Aye. Vander wheelie. Aye. Bowman. Deberg. Aye. 97 motion carries. Motion carries. Okay, so John Winter if I can get a hold of him will come and talk to us about the police station the municipal court, the Chamber of Commerce, the fire station, the North 23rd Street site and other concerns. Alderman Segali. Thank you Madam Chair. If you would call 4593341 which is the community policing line you would be able to get a hold of Mr. Officer Winter. Say that number again please. 4593341. 41, okay. I guess I shouldn't have assumed that he would have seen seen this when it was sent down to the police station. Thank you. Agenda item number 12 we won't be doing because Steve Steinhardt is not here to give us a training. However, Alderman Graf has been through the training so could you tell us a couple of words about what we will be experiencing? A short training for, it's a national incident management system so that whenever there is a problem in a community the proper people are put in charge and know that they are in charge just from who they are and what they do for instance in Sheboygan County and this is being operated through Sheboygan County's director of emergency management. I believe it will be the sheriff will be in charge and he will delegate responsibilities to different people and he will be the one main contact that we have to go to. The training was, the department heads for Sheboygan County all received was about, oh there was a film that was shown and Steve went through a PowerPoint presentation and after that there was a test of I believe it was 30 questions that had to be answered and that test will be turned into the emergency management system and graded and you'll get certificates that you did, yes indeed, receive this and train. Now since Deputy T. Shervin is here has the police department gone through this NIMS training already or? We're in the process of going through what I'd say probably maybe a fifth of the officers I've gone through myself and about probably a fifth of the officers will be going through in the next year or so. So it's something that our department, county, municipal law enforcement officers throughout this county are going through. Thank you. Thank you Deputy Chief Shervin. Alderman Grap, what will be our responsibility after we've had this class? And I know we must take the class, it's required. We will be responsible for listening to the person in charge to make sure that if and when something would happen an incident would happen and if there'd be orders given we would have to follow those orders regarding what they tell us to do and what we need to do and how we keep everybody else informed too. Thank you Alderman Grap. Alderman Vanderweel. Thank you Madam Chair. In case some of you don't know why we'd be doing this basically the federal government is mandating us if we want to get any federal grants or funds or anything like that in the future they want this done so that public protection of safety is around the same page when there's a disaster so we don't have everybody every entity, police, fire, public works running in different directions on different radio frequencies. So that's why we all need to be trained. Thank you Alderman Vanderweel. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Did you want to mention this? Paulette gave us some information this evening. Paulette do you want to say anything about this information? I think Paulette does not. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Second? All in favor? We're adjourned.