 Good evening, everyone. Okay. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to TSO town services and outreach final meeting of this term. It is Thursday, December 14th, 2023. I'm going to call a meeting to order and I'm just going to go ahead around and make sure that everyone can be heard. As we convene with the committee of the people. All right, so Anna. Present. Dorothy. Here. Johnny. Present. Andy. And Paul. Present. I can hear myself. And, um, okay. So we're going to go ahead. I, let's see. So I do not believe that we have anyone with us today. In the audience. For public comment. I'm just saying, are you seeing the same? Paul, we just. Six of us. All right. So we will. Move on and, um, so our next order. Of business is to, has everyone had a chance to review the town manager's appointment occurring also into the, um, affordable housing board of trustees. If I can just give a little context with that, if you would walk us through. Sure. So Ashley Katango had been appointed and subsequently she's a student at UMass. She had an opportunity to travel in the spring and to sort of decline the, um, and what was good is that we had a very robust group of people that we had interviewed and it was hard to say no to any of them. So, uh, Karen was the next person in line. So we just sort of said, let's go. The co-chairs were fine with going to the next person. So Karen is going to be a tremendous addition as well. Thank you. Any questions, comments. Okay. Um, then I would move to recommend the town council, prove the town manager appointment of Korean Olson to the affordable housing board of trustees. Second. Thank you. Anna. And we'll go ahead with our roll call. So Andy. Yes. Shown. Yes. Dorothy. Yes. And on. Hi. Thank you. And I'm an eye. So that is unanimous. Thank you. And so. Next, we have our carryover memo. And I would just like to point out that there are many attachments that come with the memo. Um, and they're not all here, but I just wanted to, um, just to note that some of the supporting documents of with street lights, we have, um, the memo to council, the policy and the task force charge. Um, with the waste hauler, it has the, the new draft and memo from Shawnee. And then the accompaniment documents that are mentioned. Uh, In the carryover memo. And then with the, um, the. Um, safety zone, it does include, um, the last memo that we've received from, um, tack as well. Uh, so, I mean, with, with that open up the floor, I don't know if questions, comments, edits, does anyone have, have a chance to look, is there anything else that, um, anyone thinks should be added or anything else? Anna. Um, I think Anika, as I was reading through it, there's a paragraph on number two that I think is supposed to go into number one. Um, the second. So number two, unless I'm format, unless mine is formatting weird right now. Let me just. Number two was the participatory budgeting commission. And then the second paragraph. I think it's talking about the North pleasant street. Intersection. At least it references that. I think it might have just been a cut-paste issue. Yeah. Oh, yes. Thank you for putting that. Yeah. Okay. I'll make sure that guts and it's. Thank you. No worries. Put it where it goes. Just double check and make sure that the. I'll just double check and make sure that we don't have. Something about. That budgeting. No, I think it's, I mean, it's, I think it's. Comprehensive before that paragraph. Or I think it covers it before that paragraph. I think it was just a. I'm guessing you just moved it over and it just bumped it down by accident. Yeah. There was a couple of spacing issues that I had like at the, at the, um, I had noticed another was just facing issue, but I didn't catch that. So thank you. No worries. Okay. Was, was there anything else about. Andy. Um, it's really a separate memo. So I think we should take it up separately. And I had a real small amendment to suggest to the. One about waist taller. Since it's a separate memo, I would say we should. Take it up second, but I just wanted to alert you. Okay. I'm sorry. I wasn't following. Can you, can you repeat that? Yeah. I'm not in the memo that we're basically looking at, which is the carryover memo itself. In the packet, there's a. Long separate item regarding the waist taller. It came from Shawnee. And there's a real small amendment that I would like to propose to it. Okay. I suggested taking it up. Second, because we're, it's a different document. Okay. Understood. Shower. Yeah. Um, regarding the. Yeah, the third. Carry over for the waist taller. Um, I suggest not calling this a plan B. It's not a plan B. It's just a. The work we did was. A plan B. Uh, to. We'll be, wait, okay. So for council sponsors, a new draft, a bylaw 3. Refuse this is submitted on this will be carried over in place of. The previous draft. And what is the additional option that has been referred to as plan B. So this is what you had submitted after the original draft that was submitted. Um, I know that it wasn't called. Yes. I understand that that's not. What it was. Um, but that's just what, um. Yeah, I think it had been called. So I'm, you know, happy to, to, to change what, what would you suggest? Yeah. Just, uh, I think just ending over there. New draft of this submitted on this will be carried over. In place of the previous. Draft. Um, And it's up to the, because I, so what, okay. Can I just, we are going to go there. So should I wait till we discuss that? But, but we want to make the change here. So we can't make the change here until we've discussed that. So should we go through the rest of the document and then we can look at that. The change that Andy was referring to, because that also had the slight implication on how we want to address the change. So that's just what we're going to do. Do we want to go through and phase this. Well, yes. And, um, you know, just so you know, back on the reason that this is here is just so the, the new TSO and council is aware of just everything that we did discuss in regards to, and what was presented to us, what was submitted, the documents that we actually did have discussion about. um the bylaw. Yeah, but I don't think plan B is what we are. I mean, plan B sounds like if you're doing something different, whereas we're still working on the same bylaw with newer refinements based on best practices, but which TSO has yet not discussed. So that's kind of what the updates I made in the memo were that as Andy was suggesting. Okay, I'll just wait till we come to that, but we can come back to this change after we've discussed that, if that's okay. Yes, okay. So this is was whether any other um questions, comments, suggestions or the carryover? No, but thank you for writing it. You know that it's um it's a lot of work, so I appreciate that. Well, I've got a good committee here. Good help. So thank you. So I think they suggested a motion for you. Can I read it to you? I don't think, I think you're not ready yet. I have, I have, I have it here too. Okay, sorry. That's okay. Um, but yes, I think that um so so Andy, did you want to go ahead? Yeah, um if you go to the other memo, the um very comprehensive memo that uh Jalini prepared and you go near the bottom where it says recommended roadmap for next TSO. In the very first paragraph it um there's it reads a sponsor looked at by lost other towns and universal composting incorporated best practices and consultation with MSTPMAC Susan Way to update the bylaw changes recommended by Zero Waste Amherst, but in here's where it is um neither Jennifer nor Alicia nor I had an opportunity to have a conversation with Jalini about that. So the cosponsors haven't agreed to it yet, but we appreciate very much Jalini's work on it and it is the place to pick up from when we go forward. So the suggestion was going back to that sentence that I was reading where it says but TSO didn't have time to discuss I would put but other councils but other council sponsors and TSO didn't have time so it's adding those four words and that brings it into a uh permer place and I know that Jennifer feels very strongly about this too because uh uh we've consulted her if Jalini and I have both heard from Jennifer on the topic we have not heard back from Alicia on the subject but I think that at this point three out of four of us are in agreement and the other just hasn't had an opportunity to respond yet so that's why to make it to make it correct it would be add but other sponsors and so the before TSO. And I wonder if the TSO wants to also include the original by-law that we had proposed. Yes that's what I was getting to I if you whatever the depending what the committee thinks but that's what I was getting to to make sure that what was actually discussed in TSO is included so we did have like the original and then the addition that you submitted Shalini those were the two that we actually did so that we did discuss. Right and um and the other thing is that the clean copies included in the memo um but there is one with track changes from the earlier by-law so that's also there and but I think we can also include the original version and I think again I'll just say that why even though the other sponsors and I think Andy is also saying that it's not that we shouldn't put that it's just that we didn't have a chance to discuss it because some people were running for elections and I wasn't and so the reason why it should be there is because it's based on and the doc based on best practices and that documents have been included also in the appendix so the next committee can look at and the table basically that's attached also the decision table that takes each provision and it shows which other towns it was taken from so that you have options when you're discussing it that here are some different ways in which other committees are there's actually another google doc which has even more options in it I don't know if you all feel that will be helpful because a lot of the research was done which shouldn't be wasted and I wonder if that would be helpful for if anyone want because there will be someone who will need to take a lead initiative in it in the next tso to work with staff and everyone but wouldn't that be shalini sorry but wouldn't that be the sponsors that would be doing that not the ts not necessarily tso committee members if they're not on that's such a good point because even in the rental registration it's been kind of interesting to see hence the legislative process guide I think that needs to be refined also that in terms of like there's certain cases where maybe the committee still continues but I I personally feel that it's the responsibility of the sponsors and that's why I took this on because I knew that everyone doesn't have time so I I do agree that it should be the sponsors who take on but then within the committee once it comes to the committee maybe other committee members may say oh I really want to contribute to this piece like you know in rental registration I was in a sponsor but I really took on the community engagement designing the surveys reaching out analyzing data because that's what I can do so but I do agree with you that the sponsors should probably be the ones who take the lead and we hope that there'll be other tso members who come and who feel very passionate and may want to you know jump on board and become a sponsor and I think also that we as a tso committee want to make sure that we're being clear and we're being responsible and sure ensuring that like one what we discussed in our last meeting was that it would be important that if this I mean it's great and that if this if this new draft is replacing previous and this is what is being carried over that all of the sponsors are in agreement with that and that are clear with that and that we are you know we want to make sure that the next council on tso has access to all of the information but that we're also clear in the carryover memo this is where we as a committee have where we have gone and what we have actually discussed within the committee and so I think if we add if we're too prescriptive and add so much about what the what the sponsors have discussed then we blur those lines and could be confusing and suggest that we have gone further than we have as a committee so with the edits um so with the edits under the roadmap to make that clarification is that shall there's something you want to edit and resubmit or would you like me to to do that yeah there's four words that need to be added I think I can just email you the words if you want to plunk them in or I mean I can send you back I just made the chain so I can just send you what I if you if you've made that change on them just you know do that so that way um all of our all of the edits and the attachments will be easy okay everyone to pick up on was there anything else with uh this memo Indra um Andy did you have any I think I would have already said that that was the only change to clarify where we are but we can come back now if yeah I don't think so I think that you captured the discussion that we had pretty well except for that little bit of clarification that was needed yeah I think that makes it clear and then with respect to the what's in the main carryover memo uh can if everyone's on board we can come back to that and see Andy how do you propose I'm okay with just will be carried over um in place of the previous draft which is also attached but what would you like to call it is when are we leaving out a document that we discussed what we there is no we never ever I don't think we called it a plan B no and I was trying another way to say it yeah and when I was thinking of something I was just writing it as we were talking but something like um after the um her council sponsors the original proposed bylaw and an amended bylaw draft proposed by one sponsor is opposed to plan B okay so and amended bylaw draft proposed by one council sponsor is that correct language yeah um and I wouldn't call it plan B I would just say alternative draft okay amended I think amended are alternative which one I like amended because that's what it was we took that but then we you know so I mean yeah and I think it's because so much was added to it sure okay yeah okay alternative to right the amended and um alternative are not the same thing um well I guess I'm not an expert on on the law but it hasn't been voted on was it I don't remember this at all and was it voted on because an alternative that's proposed is not part of the part that's voted on but it's suggested and not yet acted on and maybe of interest to the following committee I should be clearly labeled because they're going to say well was this or wasn't this voted on you know I think I do make it clear that it wasn't discussed or voted but the reason we're including it is because it does include a lot of research and by Susan wait wait and we don't want to lose that because we didn't have but so that's how the the attached memo says is that one sponsor did the you know worked on the best practices with Susan wait and and I think we should use the word amended because that is that was in spirit what was done the spirit is not amended amended is illegal action yeah and we didn't do it I do see okay it's not amended but how do you say edited or I'll post edited post but it hasn't been acted on altered but you know I think we're picking at words that doesn't really matter a whole lot because they stand on their own in a way and people are going to see the similarities and see the differences talking about TSO not a grand legal document that it matters a whole lot I do see Dorothy's point I mean I think amended amended I don't amend it doesn't mean we had voted on it but amended does is a formal way of I think the typically the way we use it it is a formal process and and so I do see the the point of maybe shifting our word choice to say edited or updated or you know updated or something like that updated I don't want to call it alternative because all the key parts that were in the original are still there it's just that there was new but things added to make certain parts of what was there more robust so updated is a great word looking about we get it yeah I think as long as we're clear because if like child and you're so like in the weeds of it and you've done it and you see not but I think if somebody else was looking and they say well you have this dot you have this draft and now you have this draft and they are they are two different they are they are two different drafts and we did not vote on everyone yeah and that was made very clear in the attach memo that the TSO and the sponsors co-sponsors did not have a chance to look at it okay so what were so we've have updated we have anything aside from amended right anything other than amended so what is what is do we have a consensus with the committee so what I would suggest for language just to be clear and I can send it along council because sponsors it was with the names the original proposed bylaw draft and an updated bylaw draft submitted on December 13 2023 will be carried over yeah let's just say we'll be carried over period and I would knock out a lot of the other stuff that refers to a plan B because plan B sounds like it's a major alternative yeah it's not a major alternative okay so take out plan B and then start what you send out does that sound good yeah I don't want okay and and you really send it your hand is still yeah no I just raised it I just want to say that I'm I'm empathetic with Shalini but we are getting off the council we are getting off TSO we cannot control and I know this is part you feel that's your baby but we don't control it anymore so the people of most concern are the two that are carrying it over because they're going to be following up so that would be Anna and Andy and if they feel comfortable then that's that's how it should be because we're not going to be doing it you know and it's and things get lost when you're not there to fight for them things do get lost that's the way it is you know as long as Anna and Andy feel comfortable and understand then at least we can go on I agree I agree thanks for checking in yeah it sounds good yeah just to clarify though it's I just knowing the history of this I am very careful not for my reasons but for what potential discussion and potential problems can arise if you're not careful with the use of language so plan B has created was term that was introduced not by us but by people and it created perception that we've changed the whole thing and that was misinformation okay I think this one clears it up where it's not you know it clears that up but it also for you know to Dorothy's point and what has brought up for people who have not been as involved in you and for the sponsors going forward in anyone reading it's it's just it's it's clear because you know there are a lot of people who who don't know so even those who are on the council those coming in I think we have to think about what makes their lives the easiest right and how the the public is makes it easy for the public as well absolutely that's why I wrote the memo okay the TSO and the sponsors have not done it wonderful so what I what I've come to is for that sentence is actually this the original proposed bylaw in an updated bylaw submitted by ball mill on dissent ball mill on December 13 2023 will be carried over period and so the new draft did not come before to itself for discussion believe in place so I think that would be good for the carryover memo okay so if we're there if everyone is if we're clear and content with this then I would move to approve the carryover memo as amended at the December 14th meeting second shall any can have it I got one um my last one roll call Dorothy yes honor bye and yes I am an iron shall they bring it yes all right okay so that includes only because that includes both memos right yes okay yes okay that was me one moment you need me to send the language that I just read on that one or complicated one yes I would I would appreciate that and then and I'm sending you the other memo with that 14 four words added by Andy okay and then now am I able to let me just confirm so like when I send this in am I able to copy the committee on on this just so you know you will everyone can see that that language has been put in before Monday can I do that is there is there an issue of copying everyone no because you've discussed it already you're just confirming it and I think when you send it to Athena she's going to put it in the town council packet anyway so everybody's going to be able to see it okay perfect I'll just I'll just you know I will definitely copy the courtesy because it will go before Monday just so the committee is able to see um that the the language is there okay so moving forward we have an approval to approve of the minutes but what we would be doing as suggested by Athena is we would be appointing one person to authorize as to authorize them to be able to approve the minutes for the committee some of them are there we may get extras that come in Athena as we know has quite a few committees to work with um so we will have all of them you know as as soon as possible Anika are you hoping to be that person or would you like one of us to support you in doing that I think there's a problem that you need to be aware of and that is that um if you appoint more than one person then you've appointed a subcommittee I didn't mean sorry I didn't mean more than one person would be appointed I meant either Anika or someone else yeah I do not need to be that person I asked before thinking that you know does it make does it make sense if someone coming off of the council do it and the answer there is yes um so it you know it doesn't it does not have to be me I you know I could do it but if there is anyone else that feels strongly that they would like to do it um before asking if you felt strongly that you didn't want to do it I really do not have strong feelings on their way I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm happy to to do it um um I will move I will move to authorize Anika Lopes to approve the minutes of the TSO committee from July 13th 2023 to December 14th 2023 second shall me that's another second and I and I supported and provide some additional information Anika um we did the same thing at the finance committee and what we decided the finance committee was to appoint me as the chair at this point to have that authority with the understanding that I could um ask any other members of the committee to assist me um but we didn't designate anyone else because we didn't want to designate and create a subcommittee okay that's helpful information thank you thank you okay so we'll call it um um yes Dorothy yes Andy yes Anna I and I am an I okay so I think we still need to approve the minutes in the packet though Athena I mean Anika and I'm happy to list all of those off okay because all right um yes please okay so uh the TSO committee approved the the minutes from the committee meeting of 713 2023 831 2023 914 2023 928 2023 1012 2023 1026 2023 and that's it I almost read these but that's it okay is there a second Dorothy do you want a second in your last year so we didn't you're muted you're muted I will second that motion thank you okay all right andy wait a minute before did you've you've read and reviewed them on her I did there in the packet yeah I know I did you have questions I did not have a chance that's why I'm asking the question I did read them I didn't see anything that nothing stood out to me as an issue they all vote yes I'm second though and it's just uh Dorothy yes yes shall I yes oh no I I'm an I as well okay all right we do not have any upcoming agenda items uh announces we have our our our SIP and stroll that's still going on um I would like to just thank the committee it's been wonderful working with you all I'd like to think of TSO as the people's committee and I really do hope it involves as such um are there any other announcements or thoughts Dorothy shall we step apart in words I would like to make two thank yous um in particular actually I'll make it three um I want to thank uh Paul for the outstanding support yes um it's the one committee that he's actually the primary staff liaison too and uh this committee is very fortunate to have Paul as that role because uh we all know how great he is we write about it today's paper and uh I want to thank uh Anna because uh some of the toughest things that we had to get through like the water and sewer regulations really required a tremendous amount of work working with staff understanding a complex set of issues and I must of all want to thank Nika because I think that her leadership and her skill at sharing this committee and working with these complex issues that we've been dealing with is really been outstanding all right thank you thank you so much that's very meaningful coming thank you um I want to thank you thank you Paul was telling some of the other day when they said there was someone who was talking about you know transparency and that's why I was saying you know like TSO and sometimes we have you know people there but like this is the thing you have the the town managers there you have Athena you know there's often you know uh there's often other leadership within staff and directors and kind of you know really I think you know that that space that would be wonderful if there was more participation from community members yeah um I just want to say that TSO is not as it was originally but it is a friendly committee it is a peaceful committee and we kind of made a vow not too long ago that that's how it would be and it certainly has been and you know we do deal with very serious things you know making the town run helping the helping the town run we don't make it run we help a town run and it has been very nice and I think Nika's been doing a great job as chair and I really appreciate that so thank you thank you I think we might be the committee that has the most laughs sometimes too yeah some of them don't laugh I can tell you that I don't know finance I laugh but it's um I also yeah I think TSO was we I'm gonna say cover the broadest range of issues that are brought to the council um and I think that it's been so wonderful to be able to dive dive deeply into sewer doesn't seem right but that is what I mean um but also you know to dive deeply into like these smaller nitty gritty things but then also to really be thinking big picture about the vision we want for Amherst and how we get there through town services so I think this this committee is really enjoyable in that way because I mean that's my favorite part of being on council is like you go deep and then you go big and then yeah um and I I want to thank Nika for for chairing and I also want to thank Shalini and Andy and Dorothy for bringing their expertise from the past council on to this committee this year I think it's been really helpful to have that context brought and your willingness to have the context and still look forward and I think that's that's really important and I appreciate the three of you for shepherding and Nika and I through this um yes and and guiding us there and Paul you always do that for everyone so I'm including you on that but those three um and Shalini and Dorothy we will we will miss and Anika we will miss you so I I have one request we worked very hard on dealing with buried lines and we got a a kind of a promise that that would be looked into at a future time um and you know I had a lovely farewell district meeting um was it Tuesday night okay and people were talking about what we had done and what we hadn't done and that was an issue because that was just very front and center because my my problem which was dealt with lovely because I had insurance was seen by everybody because my street was dug up for you know quite a bit and the sidewalks everything had to be redone it was a very public line situation and people are interested in the coverage that the town might offer in the future and um you know I stated a I hope a hope that at some point in the future the we would have the rule the change in the rule as Ana spoke very strongly for that you would be in charge of all the lines on your property and the town would be in charge of the lines on their property and that we could make that transition so that is you know I mean I have confidence we're going to get the waist taller I feel good about it I feel good about a lot of things that we have worked on that we haven't finished but that's the one piece that I'm really concerned about and I know I know there's problems with it but I'm hoping that that we can carry it forward and so I see Paul looks like he's ready to answer on that one so I am very eager to hear thank you yeah so the service line coverage yeah that's we're Amy and I are working on that and we will have there's a little bit of a procurement piece that we need to go through but that's gonna happen I just want to add my kudos to the committee I mean this committee was diligent about or very disciplined about ending it after two hours you know like you were pretty pretty strong on that I think you know digging into the water into our regulations was really a unforgiving task but it was it set a standard for how we're going to handle things in the future so I mean Anna's involvement in that and knowing how that worked well with Amy I thought that was a really great sort of model for how we can we hadn't done that before so it was a really unique opportunity to see how it was complex and a lot back and forth and there were real policy issues that you had to grapple with and I also want to recognize that sometimes you know credit to Shalini and the other sponsors of waste hauler sometimes it's like we didn't quite get there and to be knowledgeable and confident enough to say we're not there yet we're not going to push something through we're going to just sort of like but we're going to set the stage for the next group and I think that was a that was wisdom of people coming together saying we're not quite there yet and I thought that was really something that should be recognized as a as a good thing that the council's doing it's a mature council that's able to do that I think so yeah this is a good committee it's a fun committee you're right I think it's so I've learned a lot here I don't think I'll ever look at the streets again the same way but I see this one because an alligator or something the crack and understanding sewer and you know and and really also having deeper insight into the staff and what really goes on behind the scenes and how much we're dealing with especially you know we hear a lot of just just do it just get it done and when you really are able to see the load that's going on and also really you know humanizing all of the staff it's just been really wonderful and I hope that that continues and I think we'd be remiss if we didn't I think really another glue is Paul and then also Athena I mean wow so so grateful for Athena I know that she made sharing a you know an experience that I've really enjoyed yeah I'm sweating without her here all right oh Dorothy is your hand still up or it is it's a new one it's a new one I'm thinking that somewhere we can write down that we would like to have repeated or continued in the next TSO first of all most of us did pay a visit to the DPW and the fire department and I think Anika went to dispatch and maybe did a ride along with the police I didn't do that I haven't I didn't experience a ride along but I certainly they probably had to nearly had to kick me out of dispatch it was really interesting yeah so I think that's an important thing to like just as it was important for Anna to work closely with DPW I think it's important for the committee members to to have it not be so abstract what these town services are and then include it in in their way of thinking that they will take a look and see and talk and share to organize our tour yeah we came in our our term it was like you know we you know you're going to be talking about DPW fires and police all this and we hadn't been so you know Paul did organize I think you did it twice really I think two separate times um for for counselors to to be able to go and meet people and and that I I think to me was was really helpful for that to happen in in the beginning yep of the term that was great thank you Paul is that what you're gonna say Anna? I offered to do it Paul himself which is uh get up at five o'clock in the morning in the snowstorm to ride with the snow plow driver are we allowed to do that? I would love to do that that would be so fun the one the first time I did it that it was they were stressed out because I was in the in the truck and the truck got stuck and the guy driving it was like you know they were trying to not show but it's like it was because I could hear afterwards with the jokes were like oh yeah yeah that's funny I'll hush up as I have one last one when I was with dispatch I really learned so much about how everyone works together because I didn't realize that it was like the police that are out there and they're telling dispatch when the roads are getting to be a certain condition and then they're contacting the DPW and they're looking at everyone they're looking at the fire and you know holding all of the pieces together so it was really um you know having a tour and seeing them in the separate departments but then watching dispatch and seeing how you know they're all so interconnected. I think I think you can still do it if you want to do a tour. Oh sure anybody can anytime. There's no plow thing? Let me check on that one. Check out the picture please I need to see. I'll just say my thanks also Anika nobody wanted to be a chair and you yeah and you and that was really brave and awesome thank you. Bye Gaine, thank you. And also Andy can I just say thanks to Andy too for bringing his institution you always have so much wisdom and institutional knowledge. I really hope you'll continue in TSO with the with the stuff left over. Same. I think it's good to finance a financial person on TSO really important. I've learned so much from you Andy thank you so much. All right everyone. We're ending laughing. All right everyone have each other in like 48 hours of Monday so we'll see you soon. Have a good night. Bye bye. Thank you.