 With your departure I would rise in the morning, but would never shine. I would shine with the dusk, but no one really wants to shine then, because a shine thusly means one shines as much as the dog. Tried, effringly phased, but that only means one is slowly desperate and confused, even stressed in sizzle friends, ones that will smile to your demise while parasiting on your aura. These are just about souls hold onto your soul and if you're ever to go so searching. Remember to take your spiritual compass and a string tied to your heart. It lets you find your way back home and keeps your words pure and untainted to face your enemy at your best point. But the enemy does not rest and works best at your rest and loves your unawares and relishes your lazy carelessness. There are those who pray for you and those who pray on you. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Yes, hello and welcome Isabel. If you can allow me to, yes, thank you. Hello, welcome everybody. Welcome back and thank you, Happy Mokele, for that wonderful opening prompt to start off this final day of Pace and Tangled. My name is Erwin Maas. I'm one of the co-founders of Pace together with Nikkei Jonah and Ricardo Pichu is here as well. And we have our entire Pace team working tirelessly this week to make all of this happen. So I really want to thank them again and we will do so a few more times today. Welcome back everybody. Both here on Facebook in HowlRound on the site. I know we've had a lot of people engaging on Facebook and also on our site actually watching. So welcome to you all. It's really great. It's been four already amazing days. Thank you so much for your enthusiastic responses. And thank you, artists, for your courage to present on this platform that I know your work was not originally all created for. We have some housekeeping at the end of this session, but I really want to start off with the panel soon. So just remember that at the end of the panel we have our final creative intervention as well. So don't immediately leave the creative interventions have been just amazing and so different each day. And I'm sure today is going to be a complete different one again. So with that said, Karima, please take it away. Thank you so, so much, Erin. It's such a pleasure being here. I'm just trying to get my video. That's it. I'm here now. And it's such a pleasure to be here and such an honor. And I am very, very excited, a little bit nervous as what I would like for to happen in this space is really to experiment. And to create a space together and to come out of here thinking, oh, that surprised me. I was not expecting that. And if we are able to do that, well, this is a, this will become a creative process. And this is what it's all about today. Today we're exploring from disruption to disobedience. We're exploring on our last day of pace entangled to stories without borders to leaving silos to leaving Jen Jen Jen's to leaving dogmas. But what does that mean? What does that mean? Well, when we leave, where do we go? And when we go there, what happens? And this is what we would love to, to, to experience as well as to hear the different story of artists who found the courage to do that, to go into the borderlessness to the silo lessness. And to, and to the ocean that do not have shores where all the possible becomes. The Temkin facilitator, the word Temkin is a word in Arabic and it coheres potential possibility possible and place. And this is what I'm hoping that I will be able to facilitate today in this place for this beautiful amazing energy, all this potential to become a possibility and to open new possibilities for all. So I'd just like to reflect and share with you my resonance very quickly about the theme. I was taken back by the disruption, disobedience, the, the, the prefix. That means apart a thunder away, reversing with force, forcefully separating to suddenly going to the field of the borderless, the shoulders. Suddenly there is movement, there is a flow. What does that mean? How do we do that? And how can we do that together? So from the this, we're going to the trans, the trans of transcending, which means going beyond going through changing thoroughly to transverse. So that's what we're going to try to experiment to get today together. And I'm going to ask you all, and we are right now 34 participants in this co creators and this space. If we could have just one minute, where we could put on our videos, so that we can see each other. Thank you so much. Now suddenly, there is meaning. We can see our faces, our expressions, our questions in the eyes and the smiles. Good morning for maybe some of you this evening. I, when I heard about the theme when Irving proposed it to me, it immediately took me to the work, the philosophical work of François Julien, who was a contemporary French philosopher, who in order to re apprehend Western thought went to the Eastern thought. And when he went to the Eastern thought, he did not compare, he did not see the difference. He did not see the similarities, but rather exploded in between. And this is what we're going to do here today, together exploding between. But to do that, I'd like you to reflect during this moment where our videos are on. Please each one and in your own creative process, no matter what you do, where you do it and how you do it. If there was one word that distills that creative process. What would that be. If there's one word that distills that brings together that is the confluence of all your different expressions through art. What would that board be. And please do not hesitate to do share if you want to share if you don't want to share keep it to yourself. Because this is what I asked our friends from this panel, five wonderful artists that I'm very privileged to have met, and I'm very grateful to pay some tangle to create this opportunity. To encourage the love to go there to go to the shoulders. I've asked them after the shared with me their story. Can you tell me one word, and I would like to introduce you to each one with that word. But today what we're asking from all of you in this co creation process is not for questions, although if you do, please do not hesitate, share your questions, but rather for your resonances. What is the resonance to what you're hearing. Connect that resonance to your word to what you have distilled and why also explore what surprises you, because if we are able to allow ourselves to be surprised, the kind of surprise that we have when we are five years old. No longer we don't see things to Jean, when we're five years old, we don't see things to dogmas and we don't see things to silos. So let's go back to the five year old, what surprises you in this process please share your resonance and your surprise, because when we start sharing our surprises, this is an indicator, this is something that calls for attention. This is something when we all bring our attention to it, the unthought of can surface, the non created can take shape. So, without more introduction than this, I'll let you reflect, take 20 15 seconds in silence. Just to think about that word, and please share it. Thank you very much. I will invite you all. And we had the pleasure to see each other's faces. I would invite you all to switch your cameras off. And ask for Bronwyn Lace from Bustwana who told me that her word was collapse. And we will start with a collapse. And from the word we will go to the story. And from these words that you have shared with us, maybe a new story will emerge. So, Bronwyn, please welcome. Thank you, Karime. It's wonderful to be here. Well, I am born and very much love my birth country of Botswana and Khabarone. My heart is with South Africa and it has been my home for most of my life. Recently in the last few months only, I have found myself living in Vienna, Austria. And I see myself moving back and forward, but that remains to be seen as to how possible it is in our brave new world. I think I'd like to start with sharing a minute that I've put together from a much longer performance that was used as a way to launch the first season and introduce the space that we are collectively creating still on an ongoing basis in downtown Johannesburg. The space is called the Center for the Less Good Idea. The name is derived from a swana proverb that was translated by the great soul Plikey from Setswana. And the translation has this lovely cumbersome awkwardness to it when it is in English which is that the doctor can't cure you, find the less good doctor. And so I'm going to give you a minute of this inaugural performance by the founder of the center, William Kentridge, and we can speak to it throughout the sessions after that. Now there comes a battle between the first starting idea, which let it be said is a good idea, maybe even an excellent idea. A great big light bulb of an idea. The fragment we glimpsed at the edge of the work is just a brief flare-in of a match. There's a battle between this big lamp and the trace of the match. But often we have to put out the big lamp and follow the trace of that match. What is a fragment at the periphery comes to the center. The less good idea is invited in. Doubt, not knowing, uncertainty are given a safe space. There is a need to drown our thoughts to let another thinking take place. The sentence put out the big lamp and follow the trace of the match just stays with me. Yeah, I think that the recognition in artistic processes when one is in a state of making that the first ideas that catalyze us into the making. Often when they meet the real world, whether it's on the stage or onto a canvas or into composition and the playing of a music. Parts of them begin to dissolve, to crack, to collapse. And if we're allowed to do the collapse and the cracks and the fishes that emerge, there is for many artists this recognition that that is where the magic, the surprise, the beauty, the humanity lies. Your mind's eye has met the world and the world has responded. And so this space in downtown Johannesburg is all about that. It's about holding those processes for artists, acknowledging that the artistic impulse and the recognition in the room when we are together and working collectively without particular disciplines in mind, but with ourselves present. We're able to manifest things that surprise us. And so that's the premise of the center. And, you know, you can talk a long time about what it is, but I'm very honored to be here together with the fellow delegates from connections across the African continent to discuss how these sorts of spaces can shift our lives in our homes. Thank you, Bronwyn. I will ask Fatih or Julia or ask her just to take it as you feel it, whatever resonates from you, and just start from the word that you shared. And if you want to change that word, just change it, just maybe say why, and share the story of your own process. Well, I want to say something. Yes, yes, because what we told about told us about collapse. And it just reminded me that my first the first place that I designed actually came when my body disrupted actually. I felt very ill. And that was a time I was living England and coming back to Senegal. And as I said my body disrupted and I started drawing there was nothing else I could do, apart from drawing. So that was how I channeled my creative expression and my recovery. So out of collapse. I was able to have a new life in Senegal. So it reminded me I'm quite emotional because it was something quite deep that out of collapse. And the reborn one can grow, and one can do something new and amazing actually. Yeah, so that is something I wanted to share. I didn't plan to say that but yeah, it just reminded me that out of collapse something can can emerge. And this is why you said two days ago that you started your process as an accident and now I understand what you mean by the accident. Yes, it was an accident I wasn't meant to design tableware anyway. So, yeah, it was definitely by accident. And what about memory that was your word fatty memory. Can you tell us the story. Yes, because my inspiration is drawn from a memory. And most of the time I designed based on what I have experience in the past. For example, if I take the first collection called Luca, it is a Senegalese hairstyle that I was seeing when I was growing up around me. So memory is very important. It is an inspiration for me. It is how I channel my creative expression. I always whether it is plates actually or food, because I'm quite engaged here in food as well local products. So I always try to draw from what I've seen in the past or what I have experienced. For example, here if you see the sappers, the hairstyle, these are hairstyle I had when I was growing up. So, to me it is very important to remember, because I think when you remember, you can acknowledge and you can also bring consideration and memory is really definitely my main inspiration. There is a very ineffable elegance that and what my resonance to this is really the memory, being on the plate, the memory feeding and traveling through food, through l'art de vivre, which is contemporary, which is tableware. I don't know who would like to come in with their resonance, with their surprise. I invite everyone just to share with us the resonances and the surprises to what they hear. Just, I don't know if Oscar or Julia would like to share. I know that one of our friends Arif is still not here with us unfortunately. We're very much looking forward to have him here with us soon. Oh, I can see him. Oh, wonderful, Arif. This is so wonderful. Marhaba. Oscar, you wanted to go ahead with your, so Oscar, your word was intersection. And is that intersection something that was there was something that came through a transcending process. Can you tell us a shed? Yes, my name is Oscar and I'm based in Nigeria and I run an innovation lab at the intersection of arts and tech. So, with the word intersection, looking back many years ago when I was somewhere around 10, 11, I've always had that artistic side. So I used to draw, I used to paint, I used to do sculpture, you know, as a child. But then, you know, the pressures of life and different people telling you what you're supposed to do kind of tilted me more towards the technology space. But even at that, I found that, you know, I was good at that also. And I really enjoyed doing technology. So I always said, you know, in the future, I will in, you know, explore that intersection of arts and technology. And it just kind of evolved over time. I started talking to artists, and then I came in contact with us, Electronica, even though I was doing tech, somehow they work around technology and new media and things like that. My process usually is to explore how that intersection births new things. And just from the festival we had last year, we found that even things like marketing, things like branding, things like poetry, for example, even fashion, all has that intersection where technology can influence fashion, technology can influence design, arts can influence branding. And these are beautiful ways, you know, when we have people like Leonardo da Vinci, right, who was a technologist, he did technology with an artist. Again, going back to the theme of silos, right? When did we get to this standpoint or to this point where everything is in silos? Well, if you can comment on art, if you're... Oh, to me, that's the word that really resonates in, you know, at the back of my mind. And I am always looking for ways to collaborate with, you know, diverse groups, poets, writers. For example, we're also working with a writer to do short stories that are animated and laced with interactivity. Of course, that interactivity comes with technology. So these are the things that resonate with me and I'm excited to be here, excited to learn, you know, from your community as well. And yeah, it's made pretty much a learning process for me right now. Wonderful. And I would like to see if Julia and Arif are ready to share in resonance with what Oscar said. Things seeming, meeting, the unseen English meeting in new intersections. Julia, her word was louder and Arif, his word was love. And I love how both of them come together, louder love. So, go ahead. Yeah, if I can start to say that I'm Julia, and I'm a French sound artist based in Neutral Rita Tasmania in Australia, and I think sharing experiences and meeting new people, and especially when I went to South Africa, it was about organizing a radio relay for poetry in the street. And the people I work with, like Tutu Kani, and the poets there really gave me confidence in my words, and I'm all into voicing people and be louder, but I'm also very shy and I can't take responsibility sometimes for the words I'm sharing. So when I make TK, he gave me the opportunity to express myself. And then I met Arif with TK that you can see on the screen on the left. And they've asked if we could be TK and I jury for his new Islam during COVID, which was an online Islam competition and support of young voices in the world. We had, I think, five different countries. So, yeah, that's I guess sharing silos makes it better seeds. Arif, if you want to say something. So Arif is often a ghost on the online network. His connection is not very stable, but his words are pretty powerful. So I was hoping that he would improvise a little Islam for us in three languages, because he speaks a lot of in French and English, and I think a bit of Spanish actually. This is a picture of my first project I did in South Africa, and what all those people gave me confidence to share words that we all seen in the streets of Blumfontein, which was about lost lover and free abortion and larger businesses. And from that we made, we published a book co-produced with TK and all those poets. And that book is then online for free on the website air, airwaves.com.z8. And through that book, then it carried opportunities to share stories and meet different people. And because it's a poetry book, it was also passed on Arif, for example. And I think that's also how we could connect through different content, which is really primarily not my medium. My first medium is sound. So that's me on top of the mountain. I love to dress up. Can we hear you, Arif? So I would just say that Arif is his artistic name, that his name is Al-Hajji, Sheikh An-Nath Niyang. And Arif in Arabic means a knower. So I hope, are you here? Can you, are you with us? Well, maybe Julia. Yes, hi. Arif, can you hear me? No? It's okay, we'll give it a bit more time. Julia, why louder? That was your word. That's right. That's what I'm trying to be, I guess. I'm trying to be louder, but I can't be louder by myself. I need to work with other people. Oh, actually, disruption. I think Arif is on, or somebody else is on. So yes, maybe if we could mute. Can we mute? Okay, great. I will ask you, if you don't mind, Julia, if you can take that, come back to this. Yes, just louder, louder, because it's, that's excellent. I feel it's like an automatic, I'm going to be louder than you, whoever is trying to stop me to talk. I'm practicing, I'm practicing live in front of all of you, my louder voice. Is it clear enough? Yeah, and also because English is not my first language, I really struggled for a while to articulate my thoughts in another language. So that was a big challenge for me. And when I was only speaking French or doing French sound tracks or radioscapes, I would barely use words because I was too scared of the meaning of the power of words. But the people I met in South Africa really showed me how they were brave and take control of their words and their messages. And me, I was like, okay, great, that's fantastic because I can provide the medium of radio relay. So I convinced four radio communities to work together to be able to carry those voices, those brave voices in the streets and on air. And yeah, that was my big learning from new friends, really. Oh, is Arif on? On and off and on. Yes, I'm here. Okay, oh great. You can talk now. Julia. Oh great. Hello everybody. My name, I'm from Senegal. I'm the founder of the School of Poetry Africa. We aim to develop the ideology of creative expression within the children of Senegal and eventually all throughout Africa. Our goal is targeting the young is to help the children to develop early on the courage to stand up for what they believe and openly share with the inactives of tents for the betterment of their environment. Lover, Sufi, a mystic poet, facilitate the workshop. I work with Julia, recently, during the Islam, during this pandemic, and we still have that connection. So we're so happy to be here that you put us to our pace. You hear me? Do you hear me? Hello. I can hear you. We heard you very well. I'm not disruptive. No, that's wonderful. We heard it very clearly. That is amazing. That is amazing. Arif, can you go to love? That was your word. That is the confidence of all your work. Can you go there to share your story a bit more? Yes, you know, love is what inspires me. And when we say love, we mean everything. You know, when you do something, you don't love it, you can't go far. If you love that, you will go. That's what makes you keep going. So when I say love, for me, God, because God is the love. Because everything you see in Arabic, they say, is everything you see. And everything you can't see. And the first word, nothing before anything here. That's all. I'm afraid we're struggling a bit with the sound. Arif, we're struggling a bit with the sound. Could you go back a little bit to that idea? We can't hear you very well anymore. Do you hear me now? Yes. Hello. Yes, yes, yes. So our vision is love. When I say love is beyond love like we used to qualify what it's love, but love, genderless, borderless, limitless, whatever you see. But we start from here. What we love actually is Africa. We want to see Africa tonight. And we start with the youth, because we want to change the future. We will focus to the youth, because they are the leaders of tomorrow. So the love is a vision. And our vision actually is to establish in each country. We've lost you again. And I think you might even have left for a little while. But you will come back. We know that. And your love is staying here with us. So I will, oh, now yes. Yes, now we hear you. It's a bit difficult. And if I think your connection is not very good. Maybe if you try to leave to come back with that help, I don't know. I'm going to ask Oscar, who's a technology why savvy with that would be helpful or not. Yeah, he could just try to log in and log out and log back in and let's see how that works or try a different connection. Okay. And this part of the world band with this, you know, typical challenge. Yeah. I would really love to take it from there. Each one of you how does this resonate and how what surprises surprise you and what you heard from the different artists from this panel. So what, what, what have you discovered in that process of leaving the silos? What have you discovered first about yourselves? What have you discovered about your art? It's like, when you leave, maybe the space or the art or the creative process that you used to and you come back to it. What did you rediscover in that process? What did you see in that intersection that surprised you? So about yourself about your creative process. And what does that tell you? What did you learn from this? Okay, can I jump in? Please, this is what I love for this to flow, not to. Yeah, so prior to setting up a lab with us, Electronica, you know, I hadn't worked really closely with artists coming from a technology background. I, we are very structured, you know, and process oriented, and everything goes, you know, in one straight line. But from, you know, attending festivals with us, Electronica and working with them, I started to see an entirely different way of experimentation and way of working, like, you know, the answer is never clear. Let's just go and see what comes out. So initially I struggled with that, but, you know, moving on and working with more artists, I realized this is you really need to take a step back and just allow the artist, you know, flow in that rhythm and create. So one of the things I learned, I wouldn't say surprised, but I learned that creative process needs to be very experimentative and bear very evolutionary, so to speak. The next thing that I realized is that, ultimately, everyone just wants to express themselves, whether it's true that blend of technology and arts or visual arts or through music or through sound. So the core and goal is expression, expressions to address social issues, or to disrupt or to cause a stare or whatever it is, even if it's true fashion so those are the two main intersections or core thoughts that I have taken away in the past couple of years We started the lab in 2018, and we had the first artificial intelligence in arts conference here in Abuja where, who's the director of the actual actually came to this lab here and it was really interesting to express new ways of finding new ways to express arts, you know, and things like that so it's been an adventure I think that's the last component for me because over time this initially this was very new in the whole art space, but I've grown to love, you know, working with artists collaborating with artists and finding new possibilities like you say and then that breaks us all out of this silo and this quote unquote cage and stereotypes that you have to do certain things set the And what did you discover about yourself. That I'm an artist at heart. What a wonderful discovery that we are all artists. Yeah, I think pretty much that's, that's one of the things I found out like even just I mean everybody sings we sing in the shower for example so that whole separation that oh no no no I'm not an artist no no no you are in this other space. That's why that word intersection comes alive to me always like the core of our souls and I think more the more artists reach out to other genres and other fields to collaborate and the more the fields venture into the arts. That is, you know, it's going to create new possibilities and then really those silos and those barriers and borders would be crushed. I don't know who'd like to take it from here and resonate with what Oscar just shared. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I wanted to resonate with Fati's work as she was speaking about that accident which was clearly a very happy result. But as I as I look at the work and I see this combination of of delicacy and beauty but also on things that we use in touch every day that are so intimate in there. In their use because we drink out of them we bring them to our lips and yet they are radical because they are representing people who are often made voiceless by the very structures and organizations and organizational languages that we rely upon. And so to see the back of a child's head done with that same kind of delicacy and intimacy and at the same time it be so deeply political and radical is a surprise even though it is my lived reality. And within my own experience of being what we came to call the animatuer at the Center for the Less Good Idea because instinctually I wasn't interested in being a director. But I had a I had a sense as an artist myself that a kind of hierarchical approach to creating momentum within an arts space was one that didn't function. It's one that causes often I feel a rift between the kind of administrative organizational structure of holding art and then the making. And where the artist and the and the creators are not speaking to the structures that hold it and vice versa. And, and so what was very interesting for me to note, just in my own role there was that there were parts of my, my personality, the fact that perhaps that I'm a woman that I'm a mother. There were tools that I use in my life as a partner and as a nurturer of intimacy of holding of checking in of loving of a multiplicity of of a recognition of the generativeness of play, and that it looks like chaos from the outside. But when you walk into one of our spaces where when we're in the thick of workshopping towards the season. It appears to be chaos and yet within it, there is deep resonance and connectivity on what surprises us and what is an interesting path to follow. And that we don't need to have people dictating what the theme of the work is that when artists are allowed to explore with one another and themselves and their impulses are given the benefit of the doubt. There is enormous momentum. So the idea that productivity comes from structure and comes from rules. I believe is false. And this is what I'm, I'm learning again and again, and I have to say that it's not, it's not something that sits as a as a learned and a ticked fact for me. Because our education and certainly anybody I think who was born into and raised on a colonized land, our education and everything about the way in which the systems have been created is about a division. And it's about a creating of silos and disciplines. It's about a specializing. It's about a limiting, you know, and I, and I even come to something that was said in my own home growing up which is, you know, don't burn the candle at both ends. Don't, don't, don't be an expert in one thing. And I have to say that I think we generally as individuals have such capacity for the multiplicity and the complexity of where things are right now. And just to see Fatih your work and remember the, how powerful that intimacy and that delicacy is and that that is the revolution right now for me. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to say that, yes, of course, I depict Africa, I depict my people with elegance. But there is something that has a deeper meaning for me, because beyond that elegance. I use porcelain as a canvas as an artist would use a canvas to depict. Something to me it is about telling stories, our untold stories and bridging gaps as well, sharing unfamiliar stories, but using unfamiliar materials such as porcelain because porcelain he's here was basically used to mimic Europeans. And most of the time people were not using them they were locking them in cabinets and waiting for that special moments to use them and for me. There is no every day is a special moments actually. And, and, and you have to celebrate and celebrate by depicting Africa. And sometimes by shocking as well, for example, if you see that hairstyle, just put on the cups and inside the cups, something that has been considered as unflattering, not beautiful. Today, if you see most black women they wear weaves. They hide their hair, because they've been told that it's not beautiful. And I have decided to put it on the cup and inside the cup for people, not to avoid it but actually confronted. Because it is part of human beings, it is part of us. So to me, beyond, again, that elegance, it is also about reflection for people to reflect with unfamiliar stories but also with unfamiliar material. So yeah, that's really what I can say beyond the elegance, what I am aiming for to open up that discussion and to bridge gaps between people and have some sort of convergence. I'm not sure if everybody heard me. We heard you very well Fatih. Thank you so much. And I love this resonance actually in how it's moving and flowing from one one to the other. It just started with Oscar, it's talking about we are all artists I discovered the artists from within so within from within and everyone there is this artist to the resonances that we're having right now, now in the chat talking about trusting the process, surrendering to the process, letting the process reveal which is very much what you've been saying Bronwyn. Let things reveal and come to the surface without defining ahead what it's going to be without putting it in a box. There is another resonance which was talking about the self trust and what you're bringing in Fatih which is reflecting, reflecting about the art and the process of creating that art, but also how that art creates this intimacy Bronwyn, as you say, creates this new intimacy and the intimacy the word is so interesting, because it's going to the innermost, but with the other there's no intimacy without the other so we let someone come in, or something come in that made us discover ourselves. This is so beautiful and so, and I'd like to go to Julia, Julia who who is fascinated by sound, and how to embody what is not heard how to make it louder, and how do we bring connect all that work you do with Harif, but also with what has been shared right now. And I would add another question that's being asked in the chat is what is the challenge. We've been talking a lot about the courage, but what is the challenge so Julia first how do you connect your work with what we're hearing right here. But it resonates very well with something I've learned in South Africa, because somebody one day told me that I have trust issues. And I was like, and they say, you trust too much, Julia, you trust too much. And I never realized that before, actually, but because I trust probably too much, I can meet other people in a very generous space. It allows, I guess, you know, in most of the context to to see that connection happening and be confronted by unfamiliar material and amplify yourself trust actually. And then, and then be able to hope to hope that that we can support each other with all the various resources resources that we have can be money can be psychological support can be camera that I have and I don't use every day, you know, or somebody that reminds you of your work and all of that that that keeps us creating bridges. We can't hear you Carima, you're mute. You're not loud enough. I'm not loud enough. All this is serendipity and it means something. I was like when you said trust issues, it's usually the opposite is not trusting not being able to trust. So talking about trusting too much. And it's about trusting the process has been said by by some of the delegates and letting go, but that cannot happen if you don't trust the self and trust the other. So, I don't know if, if, if your sound is better. But, and there comes something that you've been talking a lot about which is, which is the love. How, how does love bring in that trust, how can we get to this unconditional love to be able to trust the other is really when we have experienced this unconditional love and loved because for who I am. Not because what I can do, not because what I possess, not because what I know, not what I be how much money I have, but I am a human being with all this potential this creative potential. So I've how do you connect this love in love into all this that has been shared right now. You hear me carry my. The sound is now there. Way better. Like, when I explain the love, the love is not just the world, the love. The love is a dessert. Where we do well to write. The inspiration that guidance that we want to have that barrier. When there is love, there is God and God is everything. And when I say God, I mean like good to the smallest grand to the start to everything. We say love love has no color has no, no, no limit less love, but we want to build Africa. This is the plan of this love we want to have a bright future but for that. We know that the children are the leaders of tomorrow. So we facilitate workshop. We facilitate we we give voice and we give voice and we connect to Africa like the face going actually see many different countries, different area is West North Africa, like we have here this opportunity to connect to Morocco, so one on Nigeria, Australia is something beautiful. There's something beautiful imagine the, the kids, they connect like we connect, we will have a bright future. That's what I mean in love. I mean in love is like gender less gender less we we use poetry to disrupt the disrupt this this top pattern, you know, we want evolved, we want to see a way a lot of walls that can add if the sound is starting to go at the same time. We have we starting to struggle with a bit with the sound and at the same time I've just been reminded that we in the last 15 minutes I'm amazed how fast this has gone to you I'm just going to let you just each one of you decide where you want to go. You said something quite quite that really resonated very strongly with me. What would happen if we have in our education systems, we let go, like the in a way that you've been saying, what what happens if, like the what we were telling us that there's no longer borders between technology, physics, science, art, and it's all comes together and we discover them through that space that in between of all these different fields. So, let's try to what does that mean, as far as how our systems can evolve how our societies can evolve to be able to leave those borders, and also what are the challenges so this bring this bring both to under to what are the challenges. That that's the in this process, but also how could it manifest in our societies what would be transcended then. Yeah, I think that I mean, education is is one of my passions to and particularly bringing arts into into the educative spaces. I think that we would start to dismiss diminish some of the assumptions that subjects like maths and science need to be preference in front of art because they will bring us progress teaching a child to play in musical instrument will in fact we know this scientifically improve their ability in maths and science. So, these things are myths, and they generate fear and assumptions in us that we can't do certain things. And, and I think that that if we can start to dissolve those assumptions in children, where they can begin to understand that they have capacities that are enormous, and that, you know, one of the experiences and and I think Oscar probably have have experienced a similar thing for me is that that then I have is that when we often bring artists and scientists into the same spaces. There's a language problem. There's a kind of a, even though we're speaking the same tongue, we're using different words and different jargons to try to get to an end result. And what I've experienced too often is that artists then view the the creative technologist, the programmer, the writer of the script as a kind of a techie, and they don't into the human potential of this person to pursue a concept that both of us don't perhaps know. And, but similarly, you know, tech, technologists might see the artist as the person who's kind of going to make this pretty and going to create a veneer. When those are the two dynamics because essentially there's an attempt to collaborate but people are still sitting in their silos and and trying to sort of translate, we get a lot of work that is unsurprising derivative repetitive and and just sort of not particularly authentic. And that's just from an art perspective. I suspect that if we were given more time with one another to collapse the barriers that we have in language to immerse ourselves in each other as people and I think you know resonating with a reef, and to bring this intimacy and that love to a situation where there's a there's a real appreciation for the fact that an artist and technologist are in the room at the same time pursuing something that neither of them know, but that can be discovered. And that's, that's, you know, I've made a note of your French philosopher, and that in between space it's such a beautiful description of vivid description of what some of the things we've been discovering at the center, but also some of the things we suspect might happen if this kind of thinking infiltrates into school systems and where where music is becomes a key form in within maths education, for example. I love the dissolving the assumptions of children. Whereas systems really bring in the assumptions children do not have initial assumptions. So it's, and that is all the challenge, not to be in the way. Fatih Julia Oscar, if what is a challenge, what is the challenge that you might find. And what does this process mean. Could mean for our society if we are able to find the courage to go there. We have very little time. But I don't know who would like to take the flow from the Bronwyn and and resonate with it. I don't know there's Oscar you seem to be wanting Oscar. Okay, I thought I thought I was going to jump in. Yeah, so the challenges that you know immediately come to mind, which I believe can be resolved also is delivery mechanism. I have seen that people sometimes struggle to understand certain kinds of art and assimilated in the way that the artist intended. I even struggled I remember the first time I went to ask electronic I didn't really make so much sense to me, but you know, much later I was like oh this is what they're trying to express oh they're trying to question societies way of doing things and inequality and things like that so I'm also I might also accuse artists of also being in their own silos to and in their own bubble. So I think both, like you said that in between space. So how can I make it in such a way that it's not just me alone that understands what I'm trying to express, but it's a language that crosses that silent that I am in that border that I am in, then it's more like reaching out with a handshake like hey I want you to understand what I'm doing. Instead of, you know my little club and my own space same thing for technologists and people from different fields. I really love that philosophy of in between space like okay we're going to drop and collapse all our assumption I want you to understand what I'm doing you want me to understand and then it's an actual exchange of value and of in a thought. The next thing after delivery mechanism is that I think the way to continually foster this kind of ideas and ideology is that the whole multidisciplinary and cross cutting movement should really continue. And in a way that is more into interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary. I don't know if I've lost you or if my network has gone. No, no, no you're with us. Okay, okay. Yes, interdisciplinary. In other words, so if I have a biological scientist, a visual artist, a musician and a technologist together. No. Yes, you are biologist, a scientist, but that that ends at the door as you're coming in it's for one common good and one common collaboration so I think those two thoughts interdisciplinary more of interdisciplinary than multidisciplinary and delivery mechanism is is one way to foster, you know this kind of ideologies that we're talking about. So Oscar we are now final five minutes. I would ask you please, if you don't mind putting your cameras on so that we can all come back together at this point. Thank you very much. I'm feeling very emotional I thought by the depth of what has been shared. And I felt that it was really a space of expression of our humanity transcending. That, as Rumi says, our job is not to bring in love but to take the barriers that we've been putting in our hearts to stop it from being expressed, and I have the feeling, and this is what, but very strong feeling that this is what's happening here. I would like to ask you all, you, we started off with the word, and from the word to the story, and from the story to maybe a new story that can be created here imagining societies differently. Without silos, without borders, without shores, without dogmas, what would that mean, what would we look like, what would be this intimacy, this form of intimacy that we will learn to create. I'd like to finish with a word, and this time to be able to read those words, what do you take, what is that word that stays with you, that resonates. And I'll ask also the ones who are following this conversation, this experience that we are co-creating together to share it on Facebook if possible. What are the words? Because if we bring along all these words, they have no end and no beginning. They can tell so many new stories, depending on who reads them and which order we read them. But there will be something that is confident, something that is connecting, and it is our shared humanity. So what is that word, and please do share it. Let's take a little moment together to share it. Let's speak the word and louder. So we have boundless, we have in between, we have wonder, we have resonating. Neither includes or excludes. I love that. Resonating, fertile, love, light, nebulous. Strings, peace, revolution, one, compassion, purpose, acceptance, heritage, love, and capital, eruption, immortality, courage, resonance, one, intimacy, humanity, passion, disrupting and disobedience, but that this is going to the trans identity. And I would like to ask what happens when hope kicks in, when love kicks in, when healing comes kicks in with curiosity. What happened to that identity that is being the same? What moves? How do we go from identity to intimacy? Curiosity, birth, kindness. I thank you all very, very much for sharing this moment with us. And I think the time has passed. There's convergence and connection. We've come to the end. And I will give the, I thank you all so much for co-creating this moment and for sharing it with us and for creating this moment of intimacy. Erin, I, you can take it from here. Yes. Thank you so much, Karima and Penel. What another great conversation. Of course, apologies for some of the technical issues that occur that just is part of the game, unfortunately, that we're facing. And hence again, I want to just shout out to all of you speakers and panelists of this week for your courage and patience in being with us. Because again, we had quite a lot of people also engaging with us on other platforms besides Zoom. We realize that particularly on the continent sometimes for people, Zoom is not the best option. So really fantastic. Thank you so much. Without further ado, I am going to ask everybody to turn their cameras off again and also to be muted because we have our creative intervention artist with us. Our final creative intervention, Shigun. You are here with us, with your entire troop from Nigeria. I would say, Shigun, please take it away and unmute, unmute. Up here to my mind, I beg, get busy to para. This COVID virus, not a bone get one knee, makes you prettier. But nothing eyes, I beg. Push what has saved your head, they get. Because all backpackers, they lack, like some are fashion, and they grab, and they grab, and they grab for the summer. They want to do panic buying. They shout social distance, mental isolation. When we the cry, they say we shout. Shigun and the crown troop, bravo, bravo. Thank you so much for that wonderful creative intervention. Thank you. Really lovely. Get eyes, if we can all just give them a quick hand. And you will go just a few housekeeping notes. We are going, we are having a short break right now. And then this afternoon, we have our speed dating session in air meat. So this is not on zoom. It isn't the air meat platform. However, if for any reason, things are going awry in there. Please be on the lookout in your emails if you're registered. If we have to move to zoom just in case, but I think it will work well. The speed dating session doesn't mean that you are all going to speed date. It actually means that at the tables in the air meat platform, and I'm not, I'm sure a lot of you have now experienced the platform. There will be an artist at each table pitching their idea. And so the delegates just join a table. I will ask you to please spread out over the six tables or seven tables that are there so that there are at least three or four people at each table. And then the delegates stay seated at each table while the artists hop from one table to the next and it's every time at 10 minutes pitch. So this is also a great way for artists to learn the art of pitching. So they'll get to pitch five or six times to different people and different delegates at these tables. So when you join us at three o'clock, please just move to a table and you can start a conversation already. Just wait a few minutes and I'll again come to you all and explain right there again how it all works. But just so you know, don't worry, you're not going to speed date yourself. It is an artist going to pitch to you. It is in the air meat platform, which is best experienced on a computer and in the chrome in chrome. So hopefully we will all see you back there. I just want to do a shout out to all our panels this week and to all the creative interventions. I mean, we started in Senegal with a beautiful dance piece. Then we went to South Africa where we were drawing our faces and creating sound intervention sounds scapes of our drawings. We had circus Zambia on joining us in with the circus element that this is the first time we had circus in pace. And he is also one of our tour ready artists so you can meet him later on in the lounge. And then yesterday we had our beautiful say your name, say our name stories, the stories of our names. And then today this fantastic celebration from from Lagos from Nigeria and yesterday was from Kenya. So I just wanted to say what a fantastic week and creative interventions we have been having. Please, all of you that are here and that are listening on Facebook, please interact a point of action. Try to go to the website and connect with three people you don't know. Just send them a message. And then today in the afternoon in our lounge, tell about who you met these these days. So an action plan is please connect with somebody you haven't known yet. Also, let us know if there are any shadow or residency opportunities for our producers lab people for our new voices for these artists. If you are listening in from other places in the world and you are really getting excited about this space, let us know what opportunities there are. And I would also say, make sure that going forward in any festival in any platform, whatever it is you do make sure you have the voice of the continent with you. It is really important that is one of the prime reasons we started this platform is to make sure that the voice of the African continent is included everywhere. We now are celebrating the arts and are having these kind of conversations. So if you are listening, that's kind of the call to action for everybody. Thank you so much for being with us. We will see you back at three o'clock in the air meet platform, not on zoom, but for if for any reason something goes wrong, just be on the lookout for the WhatsApp group and the email that there might be a zoom link being sent to you. And later today at 445 p.m. South African time we have our final online lounge and I really want to encourage everybody to be there. I know it's a pain in the ass that you can't join from a mobile phone, but please be with us in the final lounge today to meet the tour ready artists and to have a final celebratory ending of what has been five amazing days. All panelists, please join us in in the air meet lounge today. Thank you again. I think that's about it.