 Hi to our global audience on live stream. If you'd like to share today, don't forget hashtag WEF23. Also, we'll have a Q&A session at the end of this panel. So you can all join in, of course. Just grab me. I'll have someone bring around a microphone for you. Of course, we're here today not to talk about the stigma, discrimination, and repression that queer people continue to face around the world. We're here to talk about the success stories. So the best practice. Some great examples from around the world and how to implement this type of thinking and give people like me the opportunity to work in a safe workplace. When I jump on a flight anywhere around the world as a journalist in my work capacity or private life, I have to brief my boyfriend. Tell him not to hold my hand. To particular countries, there are things that you have to think about that other couples may never have thought about in their lives. But again, we're here to talk about the positives and the progression that we're making to give you an idea of how you can make a difference as well in your company, for your workforce, for yourselves, how you can change lives, and change the world to a certain extent. So let me introduce you to our panelists, studying at the far right for you. Fahad Jamaladdin, global shaper from Lebanon. Seracad Ellis from GLAAD. Turana Hassan from Human Rights Watch. And Sharon Marcel from BCG Boston Consulting Group. Let me start with Turana. Could you tell us about the progression that is being made around the world to give people an overview, first of all? Sure. I mean, if we want to look at the long arc of history, we have made some significant progress. In 2008, Human Rights Watch did a report looking at the colonial origins of sodomy laws around the world. And back then, we had identified 80 countries which had very repressive laws on the books. And now we find ourselves at a point where that's down to 70, which is some level of progress. And in the last year, even, we've seen that there have been some very practical steps that have been taken. Singapore is one of the most recent examples that is decriminalized. It's actually taken the legislation off the books. But at the same time, Singapore fortified the rules around same-sex marriage. And so it's not always a winner. And they did that because they were playing to the more conservative base, which was agreeing to decriminalization, but still wanted to embrace the more conservative parts of the country's population. We've also seen progress in the Caribbean. We had three countries across the Caribbean who all have decriminalized and taken steps for decriminalization. What I would say in relation to these steps is that the democratic institutions, like the courts, countries where they function, are fundamentally important to actually bring about the change that we need to see, to deliver on structural long-term change. And I think across the world, we still see that same-sex activity is outlawed in 67 countries. So that just indicates to us that this is not a fight that is over. We still need to be vigilant and continue to progress. One thing I want to talk about in terms of just the climate that we're in, there is progress. There is good news in this. However, we do need to be very careful that here we are at a point in time where LGBT rights, marriage equality laws, all of these issues are actually becoming signs of modernity. They are becoming signs of democracies and countries which respect rights for everyone. But we're seeing also that this has become a new battleground. And in particular, this isn't something that happens in certain parts of the world and not others. Even in Europe, we see Hungary in particular and Poland, who have really been using LGBT rights as a battleground, essentially to try and harness the support of the conservative elements of society. And the government using it to put themselves up as some sort of hero, protector of family values and rights. And that is not only divisive, it also encourages, it has been known to be linked to increased acts of violence and discrimination. Can I just ask, when you say the courts are so vital, a lot of lawyers are very liberal thinking. Am I wrong in that case, in many countries, is it a case that you have very conservative courts where the change needs to come from politicians, first of all, or from the people? Absolutely. I mean, I think that it's not one solution for each. But I think what we have seen is that, you know, all over the world, you can challenge the constitutional basis. We have international law, for example, and that's been one of the great progressions over time, as we've seen LGBTQI rights actually emerge in bodies of international law. So we've been able to use these, and where countries have signed on to their commitments, be able to actually challenge repressive laws that are on the books within constitutional courts or supreme courts. So, you know, there are certainly some courts which are less free, but I think that as we develop domestic bodies of law and international law, we're going to be able to utilise that to be able to see long-term structural change. Fad, could I ask you about lessons learned from Lebanon? Sure. I think, first, I want to share more awareness. I think it's very important as an Arab to be on this panel, primarily because the narrative has been always been different. You know, we've been portrayed as queer people. We've been portrayed in a way that has been always based on Islamic homophobia and really different values. But I think the narrative of queer Arabs is changing. Definitely it's changing. And one of the main reasons why it's changing because I think the literature, a lot of people are writing, a lot of people are sharing. I think in the Arab region as well, we have new media outlets through technology that is also providing more platform for different people to share their authentic voices. But I think it's very important not to whitewash. I think there is a huge reality in the region that we should not escape from, although a lot of countries are really progressing very fast and without naming these countries. But until now, these countries unfortunately criminalize the people who identify as LGBT. And I think it's also very interesting to see how some global reports talk about that this country is the safest country, one of the safest countries in the world. However, people who identify as LGBT can have a death penalty. So I think it's very important to be very realistic and also at the same time, speak about the good things that are happening when you're talking about the legal aspect and the whole court system. I think in 2018 in Lebanon, although we criminalize within the system, we've seen brilliant judges who have went through loopholes within the system and made sure that people are safe. It's sad that we have to use loopholes. Yeah, it's very sad. If that's the way we have to take them, sure. What is bringing about change then? You said there is change in the Middle East. What's sparking that? I think I would definitely would say the youth and the younger generation. Because the younger generation is not anymore structured within specific circumstances. They have the tools, they have the means. They are creating spaces for themselves to claim that they are here. But unfortunately, I mean, it's very complex. I would say it's within even our region. Because every time you say something that's positive, there are so many things that are negative. Even when these youth are claiming their spaces, there's so much efforts from extremist religious groups, from different people to try to shut down these spaces. But I think the voices of the people and specifically the voices of the youth will continue to be there. And I think we'll always have more microphones and megaphones for at least like this platform, I would say. Well, Sarah Kate, that brings me to you. Is there, if there is public resistance, is there some sort of private incentive for companies to bring about change? Well, thank you for asking that. Because I do think corporations have played a big role and can continue to play a bigger role and need to, honestly. And it's being demanded by this next generation as well. So if you're in a CEO position, this next generation expects you to speak up and speak on these. Now, as you mentioned, it's very, we've been so politicized as LGBTQ people that it's in the ether, it's in the culture. And so where corporates used to speak out and speak up, I'm just speaking from what I'm hearing here during this conference, which is they're nervous about speaking out. And so what I've been talking to them about is how can we use quiet diplomacy? There are so many things that you can do behind the scenes to advance safety for the LGBTQ community that can be done without being out in the media. That is a really important part too. I don't wanna diminish that. And it's critical, especially because as it gets polarized, that's a way to fight back, is to be public. And I do think that corporates behind the scenes have been using that. In the United States, a lot of times, when you were saying, like, we're seeing, I think we're 18 days into the new year and we've seen over 100 anti-LGBTQ bills proposed already in the United States. 100, last year, there was more than 300 anti-LGBTQ bills. Most of them are targeting trans youth, which is a tactic. They have the smallest amount of share of voice, so we have to be speaking up and out for them. So my point in that is that we've worked with a lot of corporates behind the scenes to call in those states to say, I'm gonna pull business, I need safe places for my employees. And we've also seen employees in countries where it is illegal, use their space almost as an embassy, if you will, as a safe space in there. And those are tougher for sure, and they're nuanced. And I've spoken with CEOs who have made the calls themselves to LGBTQ employees in those spaces, in places, to say, here's how we're gonna do this. What do you need? So it can get very personal at a level. Sharon, you have 30,000 employees at BCG. What sort of change have you seen by introducing or supporting the community? Sure, so I run North America, so I'll come with, particularly, a North American perspective. But I think, look, as you said, there is an expectation. We have a lot of, I call them less tenured employees, but younger employees, and there's a real expectation of this generation that we speak out. So we do speak out, and it's not just in reaction to things, it's proactively, which is really important. Showing up, showing up in forums like this is super important, contributing, intellectual property is also critical. So I think there's an increased expectation of our employees overall, and certainly of the next generation in terms of what we do. Maybe I can offer just a few examples from BCG. Look, and I wanna put out there first. We are not perfect. There's a lot of room for improvement, but maybe. So we've been on this journey a long time. And by a long time, I would say 25 years and supporting the community. So back in 1998, we launched our, we call it the Pride Network. We launched our first Pride Network in many markets. But today, we actually have a Pride Network. Over a thousand employees actively contributing to the Pride Network, and it's in 45 countries around the world, which I think is terrific. Another example, from many years ago, 30 years ago, we had domestic partner benefits. And we've continued to build on this inclusiveness, and just this year, we offered two new benefits. One, an enhancement on gender, from in care. And secondly, an enhancement in terms of inclusiveness in fertility. So we continue to explore every year. We continue to learn and try to improve. But here's the truth, there's a war for talent. Everyone talks about the war for talent. There's a war for talent, and we have to be the best place to work for this community so they come, and they stay, and they can be their best selves. So just explain a Pride Network. We recently set one up at Deutsche Welle as well. It's a fantastic opportunity. I know how to benefit from it, but how do employees benefit from it? I think it's a source. I mean, it can be a source of many things. It can be a source of support, information, navigation, how to build mentorship. It can just be a practical source of, you know, what should I work on? How do I, how do I build my career to be a senior person in this company? But it's a network that really, whether it's at the New York level, or the North American level, or the Mid-Atlantic level, I mean, it's a network that really, 1,000 members, but then we have three times, four times that many allies, active allies. Not people who are just allies, but active allies. So it's very important. Sarah, back to you. How do you then broach this public-private relationship and the dialogue? Yeah, I mean, I really encourage this forum this week is about collaboration, and I always say, don't go out alone. Utilize your civil society partners, and establish those partnerships. And especially in spaces where it's illegal. We are all connected in the LGBTQ community, so we would help you find the right people on the ground to advise you in that culture. It's really important that you're acting within the culture that you're in and you're speaking within the culture that you are. But, and I think it's what you mentioned about getting ahead of it, instead of coming behind it. And understanding the cultural landscape and playing out from a PR standpoint, what's going to, could happen or not happen. But you have to do it because it's demanded now and it's expected. And I think it's, you know, also I just wanted to make a mention as we're talking about examples. I worked with WEF and we had this project called the Lighthouses, which is online. And we ended up choosing eight best practice, business best practices of DEI and how to integrate that into companies all over the world. So we looked at tons of submissions and then we looked at the ways, we had really strict criteria for looking at how this made societal change. Not only made the company better, but made societal change. And so those are a great place when you're looking for how do I bring this to my company? Those are best practices that are available through the WEF that a group of us worked really hard and selecting and we're submitted by corporations. So basically a company doesn't have to go it alone? Don't go, please don't go it alone. I mean, I think that's when you find, if you see missteps that are blown up in the press, that company nine out of 10 times or 10 out of 10 times went it alone and didn't speak to the community that it's representing and what would be best for the community? Because sometimes we actually don't want you to speak out. There's quiet diplomacy going on behind the scenes, public pressure actually could backfire. So you have to understand what's at stake and what's happening in order to really make a move properly. What about the next frontier in the Middle East? How is this going to progress? Do you think? I think the context is very challenging. And also, I mean, speaking from Lebanon, the challenging thing is really the culture. I think this is the first thing that we need to think of rather than the policy. Because we've seen a lot within Lebanon, we have, I think we're one of the most highest inflation rate across the world in 2022, the economic crisis, the Beirut blast. 200 people died, we have no justice until now. So when you talk about this to the people, they would say, what are you talking about? There's more other priority areas. And I think this is a huge challenge. How to shift this narrative, that it's not about polarization and what's the best priority now? And I think this is not only in Lebanon and globally. Today we're seeing a huge revolution on climate and climate change because this is an existential crisis, right? But I think the topic we are speaking about now today is also an existential crisis. There are so many people that are fighting to live that are thinking if they should speak up or not. Millions of students in the schools not feeling safe. I mean, I think also we need to leverage and create more tools that would help shift the narrative, shift the culture and I think this is the entry point. Tirana, how do you convince people that this is a basic human right? Yeah, I mean, I think that actually it's the LGBT community as a whole who's actually led this fight, you know. But we've been talking about what are the solutions and it's not just a legal fight. It's not the realisation of these rights isn't going to just come from the creation of strong laws and challenges in the courts. It also is about changing societal opinion. It's about challenging discriminatory views. It's about making sure that people are seen in the mainstream media in day-to-day life. And I think that's another opportunity where we have the corporate world to play a really important role. It's in the, as one of our colleagues said in another forum that we were in the other day, the hearts and minds part of this. And that is to make LGBT people, the community, visible when you are talking about your product, you know, visible in your imagery. You know, we can make sure that your products are centred towards them. And so I think that that is an important part of it. And I also want to talk a little bit around what corporates can do in terms of actually making sure your products are safe. I mean, I'm thinking about the Middle East and actually there's a really interesting developments that were taken, for example, by Grindr, who actually then developed and made amendments to the app so that photos could be recalled, that there were extra security that... This is a dating app. This is a dating app, sorry. And, you know, you can actually take steps that ensure that you're keeping people safe from the threats that they're going to face. And, you know, we should just point out that, you know, there are currently... It's not just the rights of the community that are under assault. There is a very dangerous law on the books at the moment. It's, I believe it's a private member's bill in Ghana that is particularly problematic, where it's going to make it pretty much impossible to talk about being gay, lesbian, or even to advocate on these issues. And actually part of the danger of this legislation is that it could also hold social media platforms responsible for disseminating information. So, you know, we need to make sure that, in this instance, that we have the platforms that are, you know, telling these stories, that are disseminating information. This is a really important point in time where we expect... Where it would be helpful for the corporations in that space to be able to stand up, to be able to articulate public positions to the government. Sharon, how do you juggle being in so many countries and having to have so many policies when it comes to LGBTQI plus rights? Well, I mean, one consistent policy we have is we support our people. So no matter where we are working, whether we're working in India or Singapore, or, you know, we have a common purpose and a common set of principles where we support... We believe in a common set of things across BCG and we support our people, including especially our pride community. And in fact, you know, my dear friend and head of Asia, Niraj, you know, almost as... I don't want to say more, but he's almost more vocal than me, because, you know, it's a voice that needs to be heard, you know, in parts of the world that he's in charge of. And so, you know, of course, how we interact with the government, how we interact, you know, in terms of what we can say, what is going to be different, we have more latitude in some place like the United States or Canada, but Mexico, which, you know, we have the same benefits in Mexico that we do in the U.S. So we support our people equally, although what we can do externally is different. And just let me know what sparked the movement back 25 years ago at your company. Some companies are only just thinking about it today. 25 years ago, we had leadership that was gay, openly gay. You know, I don't know why. I don't know why. I joined BCG from Goldman Sachs. It was a different, open, inclusive culture. You know, maybe it was our founder, Bruce Henderson, but it just was, and it is, you know? I didn't create it, but I benefited from it. Yeah, wonderful, wonderful. But still, I mean, still many of our people from diverse backgrounds still struggle to show up as their best selves. So there's still a lot more work we need to do. What else can we give our audience? Well, I was going to say a really good model to look at is in the United States how we did marriage equality, because that's a right, right, that we were fighting for. But what moved people was the emotional part about it. It's like, when we stopped talking about it as a right and we started talking about it as love, it completely shifted the conversation and the public opinion on it. But also, it was a coming together of everyone to get that done, you know? And it started with a few, and then more and more and more came on. And so as someone who, I'm glad, we worked with Grindr on that, and we work with a lot of the dating apps to make sure they're safe spaces globally. Visibility is the key here because rights, visibility, I always say, lays the groundwork to move rights forward. And until you build acceptance, until you're safe just walking down the street being who you are, it doesn't matter whether or not you have rights. It does, and we need to move that forward. And the way that we move that forward is by people knowing who we are and in places where it's illegal and punishable by death. You can't do that. That is a real risk, a serious risk. So how can we infiltrate or work with media, corporations who put information out to get the word out, to bring visibility? Because if you don't know who we are, then usually you're fearful of what you don't know. But once you meet someone or you see somebody, and so that's something that we're combating in the US is that only 16% of US people say that they know someone who's transgender. So who's making up the gap in education, media? And right now, because that community is being so targeted and that the media is picking up those stories, it's really sending the wrong message about who those folks are. So I think that there are other ways that corporates can play a role in this that might be different, especially in countries where it's illegal. Lucas, I'll get you to bring around the microphone for a moment and we'll open up the Q&A. But is there anything else you guys would like to highlight before we go to questions? I think I just wanna highlight something that's very important, which is when we are talking about queer struggle, it's important to connect it within the context as you have already said. And I think the queer struggle, at least in the country that I come from and the region that I come from is also connected to the Palestinian struggle. It's also connected to a lot of struggles, the migrant workers, the women. So it's very important to take it as a whole and not only focus on just one piece out of it because I think we would miss a lot of steps. Is there anyone with a question in the audience that would like to ask our panelists something at the back? Hi, I run a large media company and I would just like for you to unpack a little bit more what media specifically can do is specifically news media because it's a blanket statement and I'm very interested in finding out what it is that can happen. Yeah, I think it is, so it's really important right now in the context of the community for education and telling the story. So news media can do many things. It can highlight and profile LGBTQ people that bring to the forefront the struggles that we're facing and put a face to what that struggle looks like. So interviewing a family who might have a trans child, I don't think putting trans kids in front of the camera is the right thing to do. I think putting the family members and caretakers of those folks in front of the camera and telling their stories so that people can relate and understand who they are, raising awareness around using your platform to raise awareness on the 67 countries that it's still illegal and the ones that are punishable by death that folks just for being who you are, you could be killed and normalizing LGBTQ folks, including us in all stories. So that's the other piece that I think is really important and we've worked really closely with Hollywood on this. It's not just centering the story on us, but it's we're everywhere, right? We're at your workplace, we're in your families, we're at your laundry mat, we're at your grocers, we're everywhere. So why aren't we everywhere in the stories being told? And I think bringing our perspective and us as people into just everyday stories and putting that lens on it is a great place to start too. So profiling, perhaps a gay CEO, but profiling their work and being gay is the side story. Yes. Showing that this is a normal person. What about in education as well, a completely different kettle of fish? I know my sister has received praise from her, my sister has received praise from one family where she was really responsible for ensuring that the classroom was supportive of a trans child. And it was a real struggle for this kid, but primary school, so from grade one to grade seven in Australia, was a breeze for this kid because of what the teacher did. What should it be? May I just say one thing on that, because that is a battleground that we're facing in the United States right now. It is, it's really tough, I'll be honest with you. There's, they're putting it under parental rights. I'm a parent, I'm married to a woman and I have two kids. So they're talking about some parental rights and they're excluding us and they're targeting us and they're banning books at a rate that we've never seen before. And I think it is, and they're conflating these conversations about bodily autonomy and trans youth. And it's a really tough moment right now in education in the United States and I'm absolutely sure it's being exported globally. This kind of framework that they've come up with that's been really effective over the past year and they're legislating against it as well. Teorana, can you give us any advice for that sector? I mean, well I think that actually it's not so much just about the education sector, it's about keeping track of where the political narrative more broadly is going. So when you start seeing the othering of the community, that's when we need to start mobilizing. That's when you need to start reaching out to elected members. That's when actually all parts of society, not just the community, needs to start mobilizing and becoming politically active. You know, what you said for is 100% right. This is a human rights issue. This is a broader human rights issue and we must situate it in that way. We should see the assaults on LGBT rights as an assault on human rights and that's an assault on all of our rights. That's a constitutional issue, that's an individual rights issue. So, you know, don't wait until we're seeing it play out in the classroom, till you're waiting till children, they have license to be beaten up in the playground. I have to say something when it comes to school because I think there is so much happening on the ground that we're still not, or we're still failing to capture when it comes to educators who are pushing different narratives, when it comes to principals who are also trying to leverage different tools. I think, for instance, in the context that I come from, these stories are there, but there's no access to these stories. And I think we need to start telling these stories, we need to start producing more knowledge on it in order to make this wheel move. So, that's where the media comes back in. Again, that's where the community support and the connections between public and private come into effect. There's a question here. Thank you. Sorry for my voice. My name is François Moudoutier. I'm the CEO of the African Women's Development Fund based in Ghana. And I thank you so much for sharing that example. I just wanted to share two invitations in relation to how we can work with the LGBTQI and feminist movements, especially in the global south, who are doing that work of bringing, bridging the gap between centering this issue as a human rights issue. The first invitation based on the example of Ghana is to use the power that especially big companies have to be a force of resistance because we can trace directly the resourcing for homophobia in Ghana, straight line to the US churches. And this has been documented in CNN like last month. And we don't have another force that balances it out. And I think there's big companies that are based in Ghana and other countries that can play that role. And the second invitation is to work with and fund those movements either through global original dedicated feminist funds that do that work like Australia is now in West Africa, Ohio and Eastern Africa. This is so critical because their work is so dangerous and so underfunded. And I just think that there's a great amount of wealth and resources in this room that is not connecting to those movements. So just two invitations from Africa. Thank you. I mean, I would just comment on the resourcing part of this is that, particularly in the global south and in countries that are particularly conservative where people do this work at extreme personal risk, you know, it goes back to how do you provide not only monetary resources, but also, you know, those safe spaces, those platforms to elevate the discussions where they can be safe. How do you also elevate them not just at a local level, but elevate these voices to the global level? So that, you know, states actually see that this is not just something but restricting these rights or allowing violence against this community is not something that is just gonna play to a domestic constituency, but this will have a ripple effect on our international standing as a country. And you can, you know, I think that we can do that in many different ways from many different sectors. So a country standing when it comes to investors. Right. Willing to put their money, their workforces in that part of the world. Are there any other questions? Hello, Kenneth Edwards from the California Association for Licensed Professional Clinical Counselors I'm based in San Francisco. As a black American cis LGBTQ male, I could only imagine what my ancestors and the people who came before me, my grandparents, my great grandparents, when they were going through the civil rights era to live through another period of needing or wanting or deserving civil rights, just makes you wanna just stamp your feet and yell and scream. I love how we've advanced, but why can't we just do it, you know? Why do we have to have this conversation and negotiate who we are and what rights are and what we'll take and what we'll tolerate versus let's just stand up and do it. What stops that from happening? I think the best point I've heard this morning is the cultural aspect. Religion for so many people is set in stone. It's their faith, it's what they've been brought up with what they believe, and there's no swaying from that from my personal experience, you know? So yeah, I think there are, you know, we're built in a, we're working within a system that was built to exclude us, right? It was created to empower and build wealth for certain people and leave everybody else to do that at no cost, actually. So I think that that's why there's a constant negotiation. And you know, a lot of these younger activists are all about completely dismantling systemically how we are as a world put together. And we're seeing that extremism on both sides, right? And they want it for different reasons. One wants to keep it for power, and one wants to dismantle it so that they can gain more access and power. So I think it's a really big question, but the way that we've been able to move things forward is through changing culture, changing hearts and minds, and moving policy forward. And it's been very effective. And there are places that need a lot of light shown on it, on the challenges that they're facing. I'll bring the flashlights, I'll bring the flashlights. Yes, we're with you. I think maybe because of the narrative of this conversation is mainly focusing on the positive side, this is maybe why this question is coming from. But the reality is very hard, let's face it. Even if youth are activists going on the, I mean in Egypt, a couple of years ago, Sarah Hijazi just brought the flag in a concert and then she was tortured for months, went out of the country to stay a bit safe, right? But she couldn't survive, she committed suicide. So yes, we need to leverage youth, but also we need to be smart how we can support these youth in this battle. Because it's very challenging, it's very hard and I think it's culture. This is what I think what we need to work on. No one should have to go it alone. Yeah, I mean, can I just add something to that? It's not always about progressing forward. We have to also defend what we have and the progress we've been made. If anything had, the last couple of years in particular, we have seen how the world has become more polarized on most rights issues, but particularly this issue. And we need to be very careful that we are not taking our rights for granted and that we need to make sure that we are defending and expanding these rights on all levels. And we also need to ensure that we're aware of where, I've used this word twice now, but it's the battlegrounds, but where are we being attacked from? You're not always going to see it. We can't only talk about the outspoken extreme views that are trying to shut down legislate or push through conservative legislation. I mean, if you look at the sort of social media platforms that we all take for granted, for example, Human Rights Watch has just finished a body of research that's going to be released shortly that looks at how social media is actually being used and to surveil LGBT communities across the Middle East. And it's being used even, I think it was Egypt was the example where they were using dating apps to actually bait men and then putting them in prison where they were tortured, where they were beaten, where they've had unfair trials. We're unfortunately being more aware that this is also starting to happen in Lebanon, by the way, just one month ago. So, it's a tough challenge. So, I just think that in this particular, we need to be really acutely aware it's beyond what we see. We need to continue to make sure that we are looking at where the abuses are taking place and we're pushing back. We're ensuring that the right safety steps are being taken. We're ensuring that governments are accountable. Security services aren't using these sort of abusive tactics to essentially violate the rights of this community. Sharon, is there a last word that you'd like to give? Thank you for inviting me. It's been a plet... I mean, I've learned so much. I've been listening attentively. I think that, you know, at BCG, you know... You've done it all. We've got a lot to do. I mean, we have a lot to do. You still have a lot to do. Sure, we have a lot to do. We have to continue to work on it every single day. And the environment is more challenging, frankly, than it was a few years ago. And so, it's been a great learning opportunity for me. Thank you for including me and look forward to staying in touch with you guys. As we heard there, it's not just about progressing. It's about defending rights, especially at a time where there are so many other things that people are worried about and suddenly LGBTQ rights are just a sidebar. We also heard about decriminalization, marriage equality, that the courts are fundamental, but that companies contribute and can contribute. They can be a force of resistance, as we heard. Quiet diplomacy is also possible in countries where it can be dangerous to speak up, but don't go it alone. Utilize civil society, as we heard from Sarah Kaye. It's also not just a right if this is the strategy you want to take. It's also about love. You know, really, when you get personal, people understand, ah, okay, okay, this guy's been having a rough past 47 years or however old he is. What can media do, okay? That's something I'm looking at every day in my job as a journalist and all you journalists should be thinking about as well. You really have to be careful about the words you use, the people you talk to and why. I'm fed up with just seeing a little short segment at the end of the news about a gay pride march and someone in a crazy wig. I mean, you know, it's more than that. It's also about keeping track of the political narrative. So watching in your country which way things are going, reaching out to elected members. Also, considering that there are investors out there looking at country's ratings when they're looking at setting up shop in your country. It's also, it also a lot of the time comes down to the cultural and religious thinking and that is a very tough one as well as the education sector. But yeah, it's all about progressing and defending. I think that's my biggest takeaway today. But thank you very much for all of you. It was a fantastic session and thank you for your questions. And I hope you enjoy the rest of Davos. It's a very different world economic forum for me. Two panels on LGBTQI plus rights and also the first official LGBTQI dinner which I just hosted the other night. So we're seeing progress here as well. Thank you.