 Okay, you were live. Yeah, great. Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and record. Ask the host to give you permission to record. Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna send you as host in just one second here. Got it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay, your coast. Perfect. Got it. Okay. Okay. Welcome, everybody. I'm very excited about today's presentation with the BC Minds of Energy and the Digital Trust on Using Digital Credential for Carbon Accounting Pilot. I've got a couple of housekeeping things that I wanted to share with the SIG before I do that. I wanted to flag that this is the Hyperledger does follow the antitrust policy. If you are unfamiliar with that, please take a look at the bottom of the meeting page. We also follow the Hyperledger Code of Conduct. So if you are new to the Climate Action and Accounting SIG or Hyperledger, please review that. I also wanted to take a brief moment to see if there are any newcomers to the call for the first time. If so, it's kind of tradition for us to invite you to kind of give a quick introduction to yourself so that we know about you, how you found out about the SIG. So just please raise your hand or speak out. Is there anybody new to the SIG? This is your first meeting. Anybody? Hi. I'm new. My name is Brandon. I'm a PhD student at Northern Arizona University. I come from the carbon accounting world. I was a corporate greenhouse gas accountant for about five years. Now I'm researching. Yeah, and I saw a lot of really interesting stuff through those years, but really just a lot of opportunity to improve the carbon accounting space. So I came back to academia to research really just best practices in carbon accounting and opportunities to accelerate decarbonization with better data systems. Great. Now you came to the right place. We're very excited to have you. Hey, I'm new as well. My name is Zuma Balanayar. I'm sorry. My name shows differently because I guess I logged into the wrong Google account. I'm an architect at IBM. I've been working in the blockchain space for a long time. And I occasionally pop into some of these hyperlogic calls. I found this call very interesting. So I just thought I should totally listen in. Absolutely. And I'm sorry. What was your name again? Zuma. Zuma. Zuma, welcome. Zuma. Glad to have you. Excited to be here. Hi, everybody. This is Tom Bessor, another newcomer to the group coming to you from Florida. I'm an attorney. Privacy Advocates recently became very interested in SSI. I was happy to meet Kyle and Nancy and Dublin at the Hyperledger and Open Source Summit and just looking for ways to get involved and acting as a sponge here today, trying to learn as much as I can. So thank you for the welcome. Great. Thank you for joining. Hi, everybody. My name is Heather. I'm also new for the first time today. I am coming to you from a company called Wave Dancer. We have a blockchain based supply chain management system platform and we get a lot of conversations going with potential customers about carbon credits and other ESG topics. So I'm looking to just educate myself and this was recommended to me and I'm happy to be here. Very welcome, Heather. Hi. Also, I'm new here. Floating Coptil is my name. Also in the blockchain area since around four years. And the carbon issue. It's an interesting research for our side, especially manufacturing area where I'm coming from, so from especially from the Robert Bosch from Germany side. I'm just going to see about the project. Welcome, Tomen. Happy to have you. This is Dave. I don't know if I hopefully you guys can hear me. I'm coming from the legacy software space for greenhouse gas emissions and broader ESG and EHS reporting. I've been in kind of blockchain the last four or five years trying to identify good opportunities to overlap credentials and the decentralized identity space into ESG and EHS. So happy to be here. You're welcome. Hi everybody. This is Eric real quick coming over from the TOIP space until I've been watching the work that Kyle and Nancy have been doing over there. So excited to give a chance to see it. Welcome, Eric. Glad to have somebody from the TOIP. Thanks for coming. This is now my turn. So I haven't been in this call for the first time, but we have been cooperating for Finland with the Evernum. So Evernum is somehow related to the SSI question and this carbon accounting. This is now in Europe or in the Nordic countries, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Denmark. So at the moment discussing how to share it with open-pepple documents like catalog or open-pepple billing invoices or then of course this interest because this is a little bit more modern than peppel documents. But our code is how to share this information as a structure. So that's why. I'm happy to have you. Okay, is that it? I think that is it. Okay, so I will go ahead and move forward. It's a couple quick announcements. One thing I wanted to share is the Climate Action Accounting SIG is in the very early stages of discussing developing a project with an hyperledger based on some of the work that's been done around this concept of the measurement economy. This is an idea that is kind of being spearheaded by a couple of different maintainers within the SIG. The idea is to develop essentially a more efficient marketplace for supply chain emissions data. And it's using hyperledger and different tools to pull carbon emissions, verify it and certify it for use by state actors, consumers and green finance in order to speed up and better incentivize the adoption of decarbonization technology. So more on that to come. I did want to flag that for the SIG where the process kind of put together the proposal and we'll be circulating that with different stakeholders before taking it to the technical steering committee. So exciting news there. I also wanted to very quickly flag some research projects that we have coming down the pipeline or actually their active research projects that we are recruiting for right now. And this is going to be part of our COP 27 engagement strategy. This goes back to the idea of the environmental marketplace, the efficient marketplace for environmental data. There are two different research projects. One of them, they're both focused on the methane emissions that come from the oil and gas industry, which is what we are kind of focusing for our prototype for the solution that we're working on. There are two research projects. One of them is just a basic competitive analysis of the different tools that are being used to track emissions through supply chains and then also for, for example, the green finance marketplace to track and understand the impacts of their investment. So kind of both sides of the equation. So we want to understand what tools are currently being used. There's another research project for a break even analysis looking at all the different technologies in the methane or the oil and gas space that can mitigate methane emissions and understanding through a sensitivity analysis, the different, you know, how consumer demand, how government regulation, for example, across carbon and some of these different incentives can affect the validity of adopting different technologies for methane emission reduction in oil and gas supply chains. So we are interested in connecting with universities with different corporations with different think tanks, anybody who has an idea of somebody who might be interested in this type of work, please share them with us. You can reach out to me through the SIG or I'll put my email address in the chat. The last thing I wanted to mention before we open up for the presentation is we are reaching out to the SIG for support for our COP 27 engagement strategy. We will have two members attending. Robin Clemens and myself will be attending COP 27 in Charmel Shake. And one thing that we have discovered is that their success on achieving our objectives will depend a lot on our ability to kind of do some outreach ahead of time and make connections so that we can kind of meet with people in this very kind of large chaotic environment. So we have two lists here for the IGOs and NGOs that are attending and would love any SIG members support for kind of helping making introductions for us. So I'm going to send out an email following this meeting with more information about that that would love to support for anybody that is able to help us there. With that, I'm very excited to introduce again Nancy Norris and Kyle Robinson on for their presentation about using digital credentials for a carbon accounting pilot. So this is a really interesting introduction for us all to see the real world applications where the rubbers really hitting the road and some of the challenges and solutions that Kyle Robinson and Nancy are coming up with as they introduce digital credentials into kind of real world working environment. So without taking up too much more time, I'm just going to go ahead and pass this over to them to give them as much time as possible. So stop sharing my screen now. And Kyle and Nancy, very much looking forward to hearing your presentation. The floor is yours. Great. Thanks, Sarah. That's thanks so much for the invitation and the introduction. And hello to everyone. Thanks for joining this morning. My name is Nancy Norris. And I work in the British Columbia Ministry of Energy Mines at Low Carbon Innovation. And we're going to just go through with you today, a use case that our team has been piloting under a project that we call the Energy Mines Digital Trust. Next slide, please. So the Energy Mines Digital Trust, this is a project that we've been working on for about two years now. And it's a pilot that brings together two of the British Columbia government's objectives. The first is around being a leader in digital identity technology. Before our project started, the government was very interested and advanced and is still working on a heavily identity for individuals using digital technology. This pilot that we're working on through the Energy Mines Digital Trust is taking that concept and applying it at the organizational level, specifically to mining and natural gas operators within British Columbia. And what we're trying to do is build an ecosystem of actors that can share information about their sustainability performance. In British Columbia, we have very strong climate legislation that all of our large emitters must adhere to. So there is, there is already a process for them to do carbon reporting, GHG reporting each year. So we are, for this pilot, we are mapping that process using digital trust technology. Next slide, please. So I don't need to sell this group on open source, but we are very committed to building the software in the open source world using open standards software and open web governance for multiple reasons. The first is that what we are trying to do is the technology that we're building is all around the sharing of information. And in order to do that, in order to have as many participants in the ecosystem as possible, we want our technology to be interoperable with as many other solutions as possible. The open source world provides a really amazing network of actors for us to learn about, become involved with and test interoperability with. The other is that it's an incredible feedback loop for us in terms of the software we're building and whether or not it functions for other governments trying to do the same thing. We were recently at a conference Dublin, the Hyperledger Global Forum and found out that the UN and the government of Rhode Island are using software that BC contributed to the open source world. So that was very validating and it helps us to know that we're on the right path. So the focus of our pilot is around sustainability reporting. As I was saying, large emitters in British Columbia have an obligation, a legislated obligation to report their GHD emissions on an active basis. We wanted to focus our pilot on making that process more efficient for operators for many different reasons. But one of which is that we believe that British Columbia operators, because they're held to a higher standard, that they have information that's useful for potential investors for potential purchasers for voluntary carbon accounting schemes. And we want to, since they're already collecting that data, we want to give them the opportunity to share it with as many different parties as possible. And using digital trust technology makes that process more efficient. It increases trust and security and the information that's being passed along. And then there's also a function called selective disclosure. We have mapped a process that is a regulatory process. So it's a very intense, there's a lot of different data that it's being collected by these operators. Using digital credentials, they're actually able to select the information that they want to share with particular audiences from that digital credential. So they don't, it makes the process much more efficient for them and it allows them to share that information with only the information that they want to share with particular audiences. So there's multiple benefits. So in terms of key terms and concepts, digital credentials, I imagine this group is pretty familiar with that concept. That's, you know, in the individual space that could be a driver's license, a passport, it's creating a digital version of a credential, physical credential in the real world. For us, it's sustainability reports for our pilot. Digital trust, this is enabled by the technology that we're using, being able to track who the issuer of the credential is, who is, has consumed or the holder of that credential and then who is interested in that information as the verifier of that credential. So that process and that those exchanges of information are recorded in the distributed ledger. And so that information is publicly available and is increases the trust in terms of what transactions have been made and who is involved in the ecosystem. Traction is the software that we're building. That is a, we're using hyper ledger indian Aries to to build the software which will get into a little bit more later in the presentation and the governance frameworks that we're developing for each of the credentials that we're piloting. This is the rules and terminology and the basically the in government speak it's the terms of reference for the group for anyone who's involved in the ecosystem defining what information is going to be included on a credential and what is the process for the exchange. I think we've pretty much gone over this, these benefits and the benefits of the sustainability reporting slide but again, efficiency and reporting improved trust and accuracy. One anecdote is that mining operators in British Columbia have to submit their GH2 reports for every single asset so every single mindset has to have their annual basis they have to report on their emissions. In order to input that into the regulatory reporting system at the moment they have to fill out a web form with I don't even know maybe two to 500 different fields of information for every single line. So a small mine. That's like one mind site. Okay, that's not efficient but it's I suppose it's doable, but some operators have 10 1520 mind sites. So, being able to exchange this information using digital credentials increases the efficiency by multiple folds. So our pilots at the moment and the pilot will be showing you today is around greenhouse gas reporting for mines. We're also going to be doing a similar pilot for the natural gas operators in British Columbia. And we're working towards also doing a credential that is called a towards sustainable mining. So this is a protocol that was developed by the Mining Association of Canada is internationally recognized. And it covers off not only the E that you know of the ESG but it looks at multiple different factors, not just carbon emissions but also environmental performance of a mine environmental impacts their relationship with the community that they operate within and then their governance. So being able to have a digital credential that is that encapsulates the performance of a mine based on the towards sustainable mining protocol is another very valuable piece of information that we can or that the technology can allow the mind to hold as a digital credential and then they can share that information with multiple different audiences that are interested in that having that information about the mine proven out and trusted. So I will pass this over to Kyle now to provide an update on the pilot, since we last presented to this group in the springtime. Great thanks Nancy. So yeah we did do a presentation back in March to this group and we've done a lot of work since then went to the global forum learned a bunch more things. So one of the things to kind of that we learned sort of in the last few months was original presentation. We had the BC government climate action secretariat. We actually had them identified as an issuer. So what we we worked with them a little bit further and ended up defining them as actually the verifier so the end consumer of the data. And we dug around and to the regulations BC BC government regulations to find out the process for reporting. So now we have our actors in the correct roles for this pilot. We also found out that the credential that we were looking at doing was actually something very specific and regulation. It's called a verification statement. That phrasing of verification is not the same phrasing as a verifier in our typical trust triangle. But this is a third party verifier. So this is the one the company who looks at a mine site reviews their carbon accounting information and then verifies that information. Once they're done that then they can issue a credential to the mining company. So that's one part of the credential. The other factor for that was it wasn't specific to mining. It was actually for any industry in British Columbia or any any emitter actually. But typically industry is the one who is emitting more than 25,000 metric tons of CO2 a year, which is where the regulation falls for meeting verification of that information. So it actually kind of helped focus, you know, looking at the business process helped us focus on what we what we needed for the credential and for the process who needed to do the exchanges. And then the last thing was our readiness on just, you know, getting ready to do that to GHG use case. And so we actually, you know, worked with our partner of ours, Northern Block, to actually get something working in a pilot sense. So a lot of this will be explained in the video, but I just wanted to call out that Northern Block, we've been has been a very valuable partner for us with this pilot to make something working. What you'll see in the video is working, but we've condensed it into a video for for this presentation. So we will go to that video now. And I pray that the sound will play. Energy in mind's digital trust is enabling a global digital ecosystem to make it easier and more secure for natural resource companies in British Columbia to share sustainability data. This demonstration builds upon existing regulatory emissions reporting processes. Because this is a pilot, it does not satisfy or replace regulatory reporting obligations. In this demonstration, we will show how Copper Mountain Mining Corporation uses a digital credential issued by Price Waterhouse Coopers to share with the government of British Columbia's Climate Action Secretariat. Annually, Price Waterhouse Coopers verifies Copper Mountain Mining Corporation's legislatively required greenhouse gas emissions data. Having verified Copper Mountain's data, PWC uses Northern Block orbit to create a digital credential. PWC inputs the data into each field and issues the digital credential containing GHG data to Copper Mountain. Copper Mountain sees a new notification from PWC. Copper Mountain logs into Northern Block orbit to view the credential. Copper Mountain selects the new credential, inspects the data, and accepts the credential. They now own their verification statement as a digital credential and can use it to fulfill requests for information. Copper Mountain begins by sending a presentation proposal in order to share GHG data with the government of British Columbia's Climate Action Secretariat, CAS. CAS' traction wallet auto accepts the proposal and triggers a request. Copper Mountain then reviews the necessary information, selects the digital credential, and sends to CAS. CAS requires mining companies that emit over 25,000 tons of CO2E a year to report their GHG emissions annually, adhering to the Greenhouse Gas Industrial Reporting and Control Act. Using traction, the Climate Action Secretariat can see that Copper Mountain has sent their digital credential. CAS has the ability to see that Price Waterhouse Coopers verified this data and issued the digital credential. CAS still reserves the right to check emissions reports for accuracy. This demonstration is one of several EMDT pilots exploring how sustainability reporting can be made more efficient in the natural resource sector. Contact Energy and Minds Digital Trust to learn more and to watch a live demonstration of a credential exchange. This demonstration uses traction and Northern Block technology. All right, so that's a quick video. I just saw some things in the chat. So yes, we'll do questions at the end and this presentation will be available after. If you check the meeting page, the link to this video that we just saw is also there. On this diagram, this is our basic diagram for our pilot. What we saw in that video is these top three boxes. So Price Waterhouse Coopers is our issuer. They're issuing a credential, which is a greenhouse gas emissions report verification credential. They're issuing that credential to one of our pilot partners, Copper Mountain Mining Corporation. They run a large copper mine facility in the interior of British Columbia. They're presenting that information in the video as a presentation proposal. And so that's our planned process there to the Climate Action Secretariat where they're going to receive the information, review it, check it over as part of that process. Also on this picture, we're working with another partner, Open Earth. And what they have is they have an open climate portal, which is a voluntary reporting for carbon emissions. And so what we can see in this picture is that they're actually using the same information from the same credential to fulfill two different processes. So they're able to do a regulatory process with the government and they're also able to use that information for voluntary process to open Earth. And this is where selective disclosure is really important for our use case so that Copper Mountain can have, you know, I mean right now we're piloting with just the one credential but presumably we're going to expand that and have more credentials with more data that needs to be to fulfill the larger reporting process. But what they can do with those credentials is they can use just a subset of data for a voluntary process, whereas they can use all of the data that's required for the regulatory process. So maybe just the total number of emissions for the year goes to open Earth. And then the breakdown of all the different gases and all the different pieces would go into the Climate Action Secretariat. On here, the other thing to point out is the technology used. So we actually had for a pilot Price Rider Host Cooper's and Copper Mountain both using different wallets in a northern block, which is a hosted cloud based wallet running Hyperledger Aries. And our piece is traction, which actually runs on top of Acapai, so it's running Aries as well. And so that's an instance that we have running in a test environment on our government servers. Open Earth, they've got their own instance of Acapai. They've been doing a lot of work with Indicio for their implementation. It's Aries, and so the interoperability is very important as well, even though there's three different instances of Aries here. I guess they're all Acapai. And then, but interoperable is the goal here. So a little bit more on traction, one of the pieces that we're working on for our team is it's a controller on top of Acapai. And really what we did is we made it so that it is open source. It's actually running in a GitHub repository on our BC government GitHub repo. There's a link to that that we can share later. Again, interoperability is one of the reasons that we stuck with Aries Hyperledger space. We were using the Acapai multi-tenant capacity to allow this to be a cloud-based multi-tenant solution. And what we're looking at doing, we haven't done quite yet, is to host it for the BC government. So that a lot of public sector entities inside BC government or maybe outside BC government but still public sector could use those tenants or wallets to do issuing, holding and verifying. That's kind of where we are right now, still to be seen where that develops, but that's sort of the goal right now. In our pilot example, the Climate Action Secretariat is one entity inside BC government. There are many, many other entities, but we're using the Climate Action Secretariat. There's a couple others that we're working with as well, early stages. We built the traction, this controller piece, as an API-first architecture. The reason that we did that was because a lot of these entities in government or even in the private sector have existing systems that they want to integrate with. So they've got their own system, they've spent millions of dollars building it, they don't want to have to rebuild something or take on something new. So we built the API-first so that they could do some integration into their own system to allow them to do, again, issuing, holding, verifying in the Indie World, Aries World. There's connections as well, even basic messaging. There's a lot of different mechanisms that they can use to do transactions with other businesses, other governments, or even citizens. So yeah, so that's probably good on that slide. So the other thing that we've been working with is the Trust Over IP Foundation. And for those familiar, I know Eric, you're very familiar with this. The Trust Over IP has a two-sided stack. On the left-hand side is the technology stack. On the right-hand side is the governance stack. We're spending a lot of time working on our governance stack with the goal for this pilot to actually become a production system. Everybody needs to have some governance documentation, which Nancy explained was the kind of the policies, the procedures and the standards, the terms of reference for how the actual system works and all of the different components. Each of the components in the system from a technology stack side need a matching governance framework for it so that that can be parsed apart. Different pieces can be used for different use cases and different entities, and different use cases can be done with the same underlying infrastructure. So we've been spending lots of time on the governance framework. The actual structure of it, where it's hosted, how it's viewed, how it's linked into maybe some of the credentials. We're still working on that. But I'll just shout out now to the Trust Over IP Foundation. There are some good governance working groups. There's an ecosystem working group. And there's also a governance stack working group, Trust Over IP, that we're part of. And that's it. If you're interested in that, that's a great place to learn about more about that. I'll pass it back to Nancy to talk about what's coming up next. Yeah, so we have funding for this project at the moment up until the end of this fiscal. And so we're constantly thinking about what our next steps are going to be trying to get the word out, build the ecosystem more. One of our, our next big speaking opportunity is COP 27. Myself and a colleague will be attending COP 27 in person to speak about this project. And also some collaboration that we're doing with a city in Korea around the same topic of carbon accounting and the use of digital credentials. We're also progressing with those additional pilots that I was talking about on a previous slide. So the natural gas, GHG reporting pilot, the towards sustainable mining pilot. We also have a similar pilot that we'll be working on on the natural gas side that's around a certification for responsibly produced natural gas. And that certification gets a bit more into the S and the G of a natural gas operators performance. So that surrounds out that picture as well. Where the development team is constantly refining traction. So that work is ongoing. And then expanding the digital ecosystem because I think that the picture that Kyle showed on a few slides ago, you know, the credential that we've designed for the mining GHG reporting use case. That credential can go to the regulator can also go to a voluntary carbon accounting platform open climate. But there's multiple other audiences and consumers of that data. So building out within the use cases that we're working on, building out the number of folks who want to hold that data. So expanding the group of mining operators, natural gas operators who want to be involved, and then also the group who want to consume the data as well. So not just the entities that are listed on the slides today, but constantly looking for others and getting them set up with their own digital wallets and, you know, building from there. Because really the point of this project is not for the BC government to own the ecosystem. We are one participant within it. In fact, in some of these cases that we're developing, we're not even a participant in the use case. So we want eventually for this ecosystem to take on a life of its own and to expand because, you know, what we've designed is a value to various holders and consumers of the data. Great. Yeah, so of course, if you're interested in more information, please reach out. We're always happy to chat and talk more about the project. We're both pretty passionate about it. So it's one of my favorite topics. And also, I folks have questions. I think there's some time now in the schedule to, to ask questions and then we'll answer as best we can. Sure. That's it for the presentation. Do we want to keep, I can keep the slides running. We can pop to them if there's questions and we can use the slides to help answer. Yes, absolutely. Let's do that. Let's leave them open and then I'll just kind of help build questions. That's one from Tim Lip who has the question hand raised. Sure. And thanks so much for taking my question. And really, I love the work that you're doing. It's quite inspiring. And I love to see that government on board with doing this kind of work. My question is about how to extend this stuff that you're doing to other parts of the carbon accounting cycle. So as we get closer to the customer on the carbon production and consumption chain, the value of competitive information goes up, which is difficult for different from like a mining company because they're sharing information that I, from my understanding is probably going to be less competitive, less competitively valuable. So I guess my question is, have you given any thought to how to manage that process? So how to how to make it easier for how to manage like some of the competitive dynamics of disclosing information. I see what you mean like supply chain dynamics around, actually, I should, I should ask some clarifying questions here. Are you talking about the incentives for certain actors within a supply chain to disclose information? Are you talking about the actual value of the data itself in terms of, I mean, I am aware of some digital markets that are that where the environmental attributes of a product are they have a value that it's bought and sold. Right. I think more the incentives for disclosing information because as we get closer to the consumer, that information becomes a lot more valuable. Agreed. Yes. Because for like a mining company, they're dealing with an asset that they already own saying what's in that asset is less valuable for their competitors. Maybe for their investors, it might be but yeah, just if that makes sense. Yeah, no, it does. And so you kind of hit on something that we have kind of stayed away from supply chain type, you know, focusing on the product level. Because there are because of what you're you're alluding to, I think, which is that there's sort of disincentives for certain actors within supply chains to disclose information. And that that I'm not like something that we've learned from this project is that the technology doesn't necessarily solve all problem existing problems. So we have on purpose stayed at the organizational level and focus more on sort of organizational identity. If you, you know, in a sense, like the ghd profile of a mine site on an annual basis as opposed to the ghd profile of a product that's, you know, a unit of war that's being mined from that that mine and being passed along the supply chain. It's really tough for not to crack. So we for in order to get this pilot going and to have something that's tangible, we focus more at the organizational level. Yeah, and that that makes a lot of sense. I think it's also as the as you are able to move the government from the equation and create an ecosystem that kind of runs itself I wonder what other stakeholders are going to come in to help manage that that incentive alignment, but all that other people have answered questions. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, I don't think I answered your question but I acknowledge that issue. We have it on purpose. Cool. Thank you. Okay, great. I'm just going. There was a couple questions on chat. Yep. So, mohan. Are you looking at standardizing the credential schemas. Good question. Yeah, that's a good question. I'll take a crack at this one. So the standardization of a credential schema really points to governance. In my opinion. And that is sort of the mechanism for how it is documented and presented to the world to say, Hey, this, this is a credential. This is the format for it. These are the attributes. And these are the rules. You know, even if it's something as fine grained as this is the four data format for this as specific attribute. But also that, Hey, this attribute. Let's say it's an NAICS code is one of our attributes. Well, what's an NAICS. Oh, that's the North American industry classification system. Okay, well, what's that. So then you need to kind of point over to an existing standard, the NAICS to for for somebody to understand what the actual data values are. So that kind of information is best written into a governance framework. Not necessarily directly into the credential. So it's information that's always passed around. Again, for a technology efficiency perspective. And you know, when we look at somebody like the verifier who's consuming that data, they don't necessarily need all that, you know, kind of metadata and extra information, they just need the code for that credential they already know how to parse that. So the standardization process is a bit more challenging. We're working honestly with a number of standards bodies to actually who already create these kinds of standards, they already exist in often different formats. What we need to do is work with them to say, Hey, this is the digital version of that and have them sort of create, you know, create a document or publish that kind of a standard. So that's one of the mechanisms for, you know, actually having something searchable, you know, we're using hyper ledger indie as our base ledger. So, you know, looking at something like a browser to look on that ledger to see, Oh, is there something named an emissions report or something like that, right. And then maybe it can point back to some standards bodies website would actually has all the governance information on it. So, we are we're looking at that. But the actual government of BC, we are in control of some standards, but not all right. So the actual credential that we're looking at here is something that is for the most part written into legislation. Not written into legislation as a verifiable credential with very specific pieces, right. We can point to the regulation to say these are all the things that need to be in that report. But we can't put that obviously directly into regulation that needs to be something presented on a website. So I hope that answers your question. So we are, but it's a challenge. And it's really a governance space thing. Elizabeth, I see that you have a question. I don't fully understand it if you can reframe it and post it in the comments section. I'll try to get to it. I have a quick question. I'm curious about the open earth foundation, the dashboard that you mentioned that they are using the data provided for voluntary and regulatory markets. So what exactly, how does that work? What solution are they providing? How are they using that data and have it being used? Okay, so the first thing to recognize is that the ecosystem that we're working through. Let me go back to this picture. The ecosystem that we're working through is an open one, right. It's not a closed sort of, you know, a blockchain. That's the wrong term to use, but it's not a closed ecosystem where we hold the keys and we let people in. This is an open environment. This is an open exchange. And so the way to look at it is it's all peer to peer transactions that are riding and rooted on a distributed ledger. So Pricewater host coopers, when they're issuing their credential and it goes to Copper Mountain, that is it. That is a peer to peer transaction. They are sending them a credential and that's it. Now Copper Mountain has a thing. They have a credential that they can use and they can do whatever they want with it. And PWC won't even find out about it. It's not like chained or linked to anything sort of further. There is proof in that credential that it was issued by Pricewater host coopers, but Pricewater host coopers doesn't like get a report. And it's not sort of, you know, something written to the chain that everybody can read. So Copper Mountain now has this credential or set of credentials. And when they do their peer to peer transactions they're doing one peer to peer transaction with the government to present some subset of their information that they hold in their wallet. They're doing a different peer to peer transaction completely with Open Earth. Again, nobody else in the ecosystem knows about that peer to peer transaction. Copper Mountain is just sending a subset of information to Open Earth. And let's say it's their 2021 carbon emissions data. They're sending that subset to Open Earth. And the Open Climate Portal, which is the tool that Open Earth uses, is going to present that information in a website. They have a demo instance right now, where you can kind of play around and look at some of the information there. So what you can, what you would be able to see is Copper Mountain's report, a voluntary report for their carbon emissions. And you can see in that, in that web interface, the actual verifiable check. Like it's the presentation request information to say who issued this, who verified that this information was valid, correct. So that's, you know, sort of a very basic way. It's again, as Nancy mentioned, an organizational identity type of information to say this is something about Copper Mountain and their carbon emissions. It doesn't talk about the copper exactly, but it talks about the organization and the carbon emissions, right, to actually start linking, you know, the actual carbon for a single load or ton of copper. That's a little bit more challenging because then it, you know, you start getting to the supply chain realm of things, right, right. Yep. Yep. Does that help? Yes, it does. Thank you very much. Moving down as quickly as possible. Can, you might just say this, can you help explain who will be the owner of the data in the system considered considering third parties through API. I think you just kind of spoke to that. I was wondering how you forth and account for the climate data coming into the system, what standards and checks do you use to ensure that that is accurate. So price rather host coopers, they're already doing this process they're they're doing a verification they follow a lot of standards. I don't have them all on the top of my head to validate that the data is is accurate. But they are the issue where they're the ones sort of in a sense on the hook to say that the data is accurate. And once it's that data is written into that credential, it cannot be changed. It cannot be tampered with. If it were tampered with, it would break the any cryptographic checks. So, right. The following question about timing, how often does PWC issue credentials as structured data should be in real time not past year. So, how often is this information blowing. Yeah, right now, it's an annual process. Okay. Yeah, I'm just reading this. Can anyone ask credentials like as part of order or public tender we require footprint under a threshold or footprint gives extra point in tender process. I'm sorry, do you understand that. Yeah, that's a good question. So, in our demonstration copper mountain was the one initiating the transaction to present the data to both. It's to both the climate action secretary because they have a responsibility to report yearly. So they're copper mountains the one in our use case to initiate that transaction. Others in the ecosystem who are actually doing a presentation request, that's the exchange and areas to say, hey, I want to go and connect with this entity and ask them for a subset of information. So you could have an investor, let's say, in this space as well to ask copper mountain at whatever frequency to say hey can you send me your, your total for 2020 or 2019 or whatever it is. Yeah. And so that mechanism for that peer to peer exchange works both ways it can be initiated by the receiver, or by the presenter. That answers your question. Yeah. Another question, have you thought about integrating existing if the frameworks like gri CDP TFT to schema. Sure. Yes, we definitely thought about it. I think the sky's the limit with these credentials. It's really a matter of the reason we focused on the one we focused on it's because we wanted to map to an existing process. Going forward, if there is demand for from anyone in the ecosystem to want to do a gri credential or TCF D. Really any other yes G framework. It's, it is totally possible to do it. I'm not sure if I should or not, but you did. Thank you. I think so. I've got one final question. I'm just going to read exactly how it was written. It means the BC gov, plus the credential without verifying the issue or credential. If the BC gov checks the issue or how are you sure that he WC assigned signed the credential and not somebody else. So that is the nature of the technology that we're using with these verifiable credentials. So the when PWC issues that credential to copper mountain. It's cryptographically signed essentially and and you know bound to the attributes so that when the BC government receives that information. They can check that credential that it's cryptographically valid. They can also check using the distributed ledger that it's not been revoked. So those are just things baked into the technology that we're using. There's lots of information on how that goes, and it gets very technical very quick, but that that's what we're relying on is that that cryptographic checks. So Kyle, sorry just a quick follow up question to that stay big speed here. The usual thorn in your side. The credential has been signed by somebody. How do you know that somebody is PWC. Do you have a process to register the PWC did. Yes, so that gets into. I mean, that gets into the trust registries kind of conversation. Again related to governance, where you would have let's say a list of all of the trusted issuers for particular credential, which is often already built into governance frameworks in a non verifiable credential structure. You know there's a list of, you know, assessors, or in our case for the BC government in regulation it says that the issuing company for verification statement needs to have a certain accreditation. And I can't remember what it is for this space. I really need to write it down and put it on a post it note on my screen because that question comes up. But yes that that's, that's sort of an existing list to say here are all the, you know, trusted issuers of verification statements for minds, and there's a different set for natural gas sector and so on. So it's a, at the end of the day it's a did match between the wallet and a trust registry that you would, you would have. All right, thank you. Yeah. Question to that, that means you're using now a decentralized system, like in hyper legendary. And after that, you're using the trust register with the centralized system. The trust registry doesn't necessarily need to be centralized. And this list is the list of the trusted issuers from from a guest for example, and only against this list you can check that. Yeah, there's a few different ways to trust the issuer, and we're exploring some of those. Some of them could be, you know, kind of a link into the credential itself. You know, the trust registry space and the machine readable governance is sort of that other aspect is still a space that is really expanding for right now. I actually have pinned to watch a YouTube video from in this year on their, their mission, their meetup on machine readable governance and there was another one from transit on trust registries. So that's, there's a lot of conversation, how to technically solve that problem that we're still digging into. Thank you. There are mechanisms. Yes. Yeah. At the end of the day, you don't actually need to use the trust registry, but it is an important piece. You can still, you know, know that the data has not been tampered with. And then you might be using a different trust registry than even open earth. That's another thing to kind of point out. It, it, you know, it's for the verifier to have their list, they're checking against. It's, it's not necessarily going to be the same set. Well, that's fantastic. I can't believe we got through all the questions we had a really good discussion, the presentation, Maya, Maya, my intros, but that's fantastic. This has been a great presentation as usual. It's really exciting to see you guys leading the charge and really, I think, kind of pushing the boundaries and offering a real use case. So it's exciting. It's inspiring for all of us. And thank you. Thank you for joining us once again. Our pleasure. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us Sherwood. Yeah, thanks very much. Thank you everyone for joining. Thanks everyone. Bye. Thank you.