 All board members could make it back to their respective desks chairs or otherwise and start turning on your cameras so we can begin the meeting in a couple of minutes. That'd be great. Thanks. Chair Weigel, I did want to let you know that we have not hit a quorum yet. So we will need just a few more moments. That's fine. Thanks so much. I'll actually need a few more moments because my small children just arrived home and I need to help do with them for about five minutes. Hi, board member Wicks. If you could do a video and audio chat check for me. Can you hear me? I can hear and see you. Thank you so much. You can't see me. I'll stop. Recording secretary, it looks like we do have a quorum. Is that correct? Yes, we do have a quorum now. Well, then let's get rolling. I only know of one board member that wasn't going to be here tonight. So I have two that will not be in attendance this this evening. Yeah, I heard Feister, Hedgepeth wasn't going to be here. Who was the other board member? The board member Birch is unable to attend this evening as well. And if you could give us just two seconds. Board member Sharon just logged on, so I'll let him get hooked up. Sounds good. Sorry to be a couple minutes late. It's unacceptable, Adam. You're out. You're gone. All right, so we have a quorum and it is after 4.30. So that being said, it is 4.34 and I'd like to call the regular scheduled meeting of the city of Santa Rosa Design Review Board to order. So, and I will remind everybody why we're here in a virtual setting again pursuant to government code section 45953E and the recommendation of the health officer of the County of Sonoma Design Review Board members will be participating in this meeting via Zoom webinar. Members of the public can participate in the meeting virtually by going to www.zoom.us slash join and entering the meeting ID 81250144897 or by calling in toll free 1-877-853-5257 and entering the meeting ID that I just read. Public accessing the meeting through the Zoom link can be can also provide public comment on the agenda items at the times they're discussed. Additional information related to the meeting can be found at HTTPS semicolon backslash slash srcity.org slash design review board and the meeting is also live streamed on the city's website. And also Comcast channel 28 and also the city's YouTube channel. So that being said, recording secretary may have a roll call. Yes, thank you. Let the record reflect that all board members are present with the exception of board member Birch and vice chair Hedred. Excellent. So we don't have any study session items tonight and the number three approval of minutes that everybody get a chance to review the minutes. Any comments on the minutes changes adjustments. So that being said, seeing no changes or adjustments. I'd like to put the minutes into the record, the October 7th, 2021 minutes into the record. Item number four is public comment. This is reserved for public comment on items not on the agenda for this evening, but are that are germane to the board's purview. So if anyone in the audience this evening would like to comment make a public comment, we will now open public comment and remember this is on items not on the agenda. So please in zoom raise your hand and the recording secretary and I will be looking to see if anybody would like to make public comments evening. I am seeing no hands at this time. And same with me. So I will close public comment at this time. Item five board business. This is where we will read the statement purpose for the design review board from the city of Santa Rosa zoning code chapter 20. 52.030 F project review, the review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project. Upon surrounding properties and the city in general review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan. Any applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements, consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines architectural criteria for special areas and the applicable city requirements, e.g. City policy statements and development plans. So that's being done. We are now on to board member reports. Are there any board member reports from board members present this evening? It's afternoon. Seeing none, we will go. There are no items of other. So we'll go to item six, which is department reports and we'll turn this over to our staff liaison Amy Nicholson. Thank you. Good evening, chair Wigel and members of the board. Just a brief department report. The, I believe I mentioned that a previous meeting that the stony point plus design review was appealed. So that will be heard by the council on November 16th. We also will be having a joint planning commission city council meeting with a, including a study session on the housing element. That is currently underway. And then just a reminder that our regular meeting scheduled for November 18th will be canceled. That's it for me. Thanks. Thanks, Amy. So we'll move on to item number seven statements of abstention. I don't think anybody has any on the schedule item for tonight, but just a double check any statements of abstention this evening. Okay. There are no items in consent items item number eight. So we will move on to item number nine, which is our scheduled items and we'll go to item 9.1 highway one on one bicycle pedestrian over crossing over highway one on one connecting Edwards and Elliott avenues and it's to construct a class 180 accessible and mode separated bicycle and pedestrian bridge over highway one on one. And I will turn it over to grant Bailey, the supervising engineer with the city of Santa Rosa and also supervising a senior planner. Sorry, Amy Nicholson. And then just one more briefing. I don't know if everybody remembers that we saw a concept of this. I want to say two years ago. If you're remembering, so I think Henry, Adam, and I have all seen this, but board member McHugh and and Wolski have not. So just wanted to put that into some context. So with that, we'll turn it over to grant and Amy. Amy, do you want to start us off and then we can go into the presentation. Great. Thank you. Thank you chair and members of the board. So as was mentioned, this item is a concept design review for the highway one on one bicycle and pedestrian over crossing. As chair Weigel mentioned, this item was seen by this board in April of 2019. And so during that time, there were two alignments proposed and also three different types of bridge structures. The board also provided feedback during that meeting. The board also requested or asked that this item come back to the board as it developed further. And so we're happy to have this item back before you this evening. Just as it relates to process, I wanted to explain that city projects undergo a different type of review. So the city code states that city projects receive concept design review only. So there is not a formal design review action required for this project. And so with that, I will hand it over to grant and the consultant for the remainder. Thanks. Thanks Amy. We are going to need to transfer permissions to Steven Grover. So he can present the slides. So bear with us one moment. Right. Steven, it looks like you have control. Are we good to begin. Great. Thank you. Right. Good afternoon chair Weigel and members of the board. As Amy mentioned, I'm grant Bailey supervising engineer with the city's transportation and public works department and project manager for the highway one on one bicycle and pedestrian over crossing. So I'm here with the city's transportation and public works department and project manager for the highway one on one bicycle and pedestrian over crossing project with me today are Natalie and Bernardi our consultant project manager with BKF engineers and Steven Grover, the project architect with Steven Grover and associates. This afternoon, we are here to present the proposed final design for the over crossing landings at Elliott and Edwards Avenue, as well as the over crossing principle. Additionally, as well as proposed design for the over crossing principle span structure. Additionally, we'd also like to get to receive input from the board on potential public art installations on the over crossing. Next slide please. The highway one on one bicycle and pedestrian over crossing project proposes to construct a new bike and pedestrian bridge that will cross us highway one on one. Connect east and west Santa Rosa and increase access to academic residential commercial and recreational areas, as well as transit hubs during the environmental phase of this project to build alternatives were considered. The first one was the Edwards Avenue and Elliott Avenue alignment and alternative to was the range Avenue and bear cub way line in March 2021. The project development team in conjunction with Caltrans as the lead environmental agency certified the project environmental document and approved the Edwards Elliott alignment bill alternative as shown in the slide here. Next slide please. I'd like to talk about a few few project milestones we've completed to date. So going back to 2007. We initiated a feasibility study and the feasibility study assessed the need for the feasibility of feasibility of constructing a bicycle and pedestrian bridge over highway one on one near the Santa Rosa junior college in Santa Rosa. Ultimately the study found there is a need to improve bike and pedestrian access across highway one on one adjacent to SR JC, and that a freeway overpass structure would substantially address this need. Following the close of that the feasibility study phase, we moved into the project initiation document phase. And during this phase, a document was developed and approved by Caltrans that identified this project to be programmed for funding and construction on the state highway system. We completed that phase of the project in October of 2016. And with that we moved into the project approval and environmental document phase or PAED phase. And through this phase, the city Caltrans city and Caltrans and our consultants worked with the public to do a robust analysis of environmental impacts. That could be incurred as a result of this project, as well as assessing the different alternatives that were discussed earlier. In March of 2021. This, the environmental phase was the environmental document was certified within initial study mitigated negative declaration. And so that brought us into the next phase, which was designed. I'll show a design also note in June of this year. The project received $12 million of construction funding through the active transportation program which was awarded by the Metropolitan Transportation Commission which is a very big milestone for this project considering that that funding source funds over half of the product the expected construction costs so that was that was very big for us. And then in the same month, June of this year, we also executed a professional services agreement with BKF engineers to carry out the design of this project. And next slide please. Our plan next steps following this meeting in December actually on December 8. We had planned to have a public community meeting to report out on direction received from the DRB version and input received from the DRB. And then following that meeting we will dive into the standard design delivery in conjunction with Caltrans and which we expect to take about 18 months which takes us to July 2023. When we expect project designed to be completed and we'll be ready to bid this project for construction. In October of 2023 we expect to begin construction that should last approximately two years to build this the over crossing, which takes us to fall of 2025, when we hope to have the project complete and ready for use. I'd like to introduce Steven Grover of Steven Grover Associates, who's been the architect on the 101 bike and pedestrian over crossing project since its inception in 2007. Steven will provide a detailed discussion of the project's design considerations. Steven. Thank you grant. We are pleased to provide the board with an update about the design of Santa Rosa's bicycle and pedestrian over crossing project. We are seeking the board's feedback and recommendations on the proposed design, specifically integration with the Elliott and Edwards Avenue streetscapes and the main span structure. As grant mentioned this project proposes to construct a bicycle and pedestrian over crossing of highway 101. The crossing will be ADA compliant and have a width of 14 and a half feet between railings. It will be located here, connecting Edwards Avenue on the west and Elliott Avenue on the east. Note that this aerial photo was taken in 2018 and since that time Santa Rosa junior colleges buildings in the lower right of this image have been demolished. The city has designated highway 101 the redwood highway as a scenic highway. The visual character along northbound US 101 is open, flat and expansive with a view of the Shiloh Hills. In the southbound direction, the view is equally open and airy with trees and greenery flanking both sides of the highway. At the over crossings west touchdown Edwards Avenue has a quiet mixed residential character with some commercial buildings near Cleveland Avenue, with a few single family and multi family homes west towards range Avenue. Key design considerations along Edwards are one compatibility with the existing streetscape character. And to maintaining visual and physical access to and from the commercial buildings near Cleveland. On the east side of the highway. Edwards Avenue has a pleasant tree lined character with a few single family homes on the north side and junior college buildings on the south. Design considerations along Elliott include one ensuring that cyclist and pedestrian circulation integrates safely with the circulation within and around the SRJC campus. And two minimizing impacts on the heritage trees along the street, such as this large blue oak on the right. Thus, for both approaches. A key design goal for this project is compatibility with the mixed residential character. In other words, we're trying to avoid bringing the materiality and visual character of the freeway into these neighborhoods. There's a few words about geometric constraints. On the west side, the approach is constrained by its touchdown location. And by a vertical clearance requirement at the entrance driveway to Dix sporting goods to make the West approach work in compliance with ADA. We need nine ramps at 8.25% slope. On the east side, the vertical clearance at the east edge of the highway controls, but eastward from there we have a long gentle slope of less than 5%. One safety concern we have heard about in past public meetings is how to avoid conflicts between cyclists and pedestrians on the structure. As shown here in this view along the West approach is a two way bike path and a separate walking path. This solution was initially presented in the 2010 feasibility study. Here's the same view at night. To achieve glare free lighting, we are proposing LED fixtures mounted below eye level integrated into the railings and angled to light only the bridge deck. In cross section, the proposed walking path will be slightly raised just an inch and a half higher than the bike path with an angled mountable curb to separate it from the bike path. This solution has been used in other Bay Area bike path projects such as this one I designed shown on the right at the Homer Avenue underpass in Palo Alto. This type of curb is common in other parts of the world where cycling is used as a primary mode of transportation. Concerns have been expressed in past by the DRB and others about safety at the West touchdown adjacent to the Dix loading dock driveway. Here is the design from 2016, which was presented in our previous meeting with the DRB with a mix area at the bottom of the ramp. This design allowed for straight ahead travel, as well as entering the drive aisle of the parking lot, as shown by the red arrows. We have refined this design to restrict travel, eliminating direct access to the parking lot and the driveway. We've also studied travel mode interactions in this mixing area and added a few other safety features. Here is a view of that same area at night. An important project goal is to achieve light levels adequately bright for safety and security, yet pleasant, comfortable and context compatible. In other words, not harshly overlit like a gas like a gas station. Here's that same area as seen from ground level along Edwards Avenue, we are proposing to treat the walls supporting the lower portion of the approach to make them compatible with the context. We are proposing a battered textured concrete wall. We are also considering vines that require climbing structures. So the extent of their growth is self limiting and low maintenance. This treatment would also minimize large flat surfaces that could attract graffiti. Here is a view of the same area at night. Now turning 180 degrees to look eastward along Edwards. We see how the over crossing passes over the sidewalk. There's an opportunity here to increase the width of the landscaped buffer between the sidewalk and street. Where the approaches are aerial structures. We are proposing soft lighting, rather than standalone fixtures. And here again is the same area, but as seen from the second floor of the commercial building across the street on the east side of the freeway. The project will connect Elliott Avenue will connect to Elliott Avenue near the new SR JC student housing. Some at the SR JC have noted increasing interest in walking and biking on campus and asked us to study how to avoid conflicts where multiple paths converge. The SR JC is still working out exactly how the land in this area will be used. So the design you see here will be further refined as we continue to work with the SR JC. Here is a view of the east touchdown area from street level where we were able to save many existing trees. We have confirmed with the SR JC that no vehicles will need to use this entrance. So we will incorporate mechanisms to prevent vehicles from entering this east touchdown area. Moving now to the topic of landscaping. The proposed design along Edwards Avenue creates conditions suitable for a variety of different types of plants. Those that do well in sun, those that do well in shade, and those that do well in bio retention areas. Here's a preview of our planting concept, mostly using grasses and some large succulents. We are proposing rocks and plants like the ones shown here that are drought tolerant landscaping that is nice to look at but not as nice to touch, and thus can serve as a deterrent to repose or encampment. Here are some of the other plants colors and textures that we are proposing with regard to the main stand structure. With regard to geometric considerations, there were several factors that informed the design team's recommendation of a cable state bridge type as being the most appropriate structure type for this project. These considerations include visibility of and for users. Constructibility. Minimizing obstruction of the freeway driver's view. In April of 2019, we presented this project to the DRB. At that meeting we showed you a variety of trusts, arch and sculptural bridge examples. The DRB at that time concurred with our cable state bridge type recommendation and expressed a preference for a unique light and airy bridge design. One that would make a modern statement for the city and provide a sense of arrival. To quote chair Weigel from the 2019 meeting. The bridge should make a statement without signage or artwork because the bridge itself is the artwork. This direction was consistent with public feedback received for the project since 2009. For example, during the project feasibility study. The input favored a quote signature landmark for Santa Rosa that entices people to use it, rather than a visually heavier standard overpass structure. Accordingly, we have been working toward a unique and modern design with clean, simple lines, one that is visually light and open, and one that is easily constructible at this location. Some board members might recall that during the conceptual design phase, we were considering a symmetrical cable state bridge structure type with two towers in a V shape. When we presented that pile on and cable config configuration, the DRB directed the directed the design team to quote, push the design envelope, treat the bridge as artwork be bold and to consider a single pile on, rather than the rabbit ears be shaped. During the current detailed design phase, we have had the benefit of LiDAR data for the existing trees along Elliott Avenue. We have found that the arrangement of the backstay cables in a near vertical plane would require cutting nearly half of the canopy off of this heritage oak. According to the project's arborist, this blue oak is especially large and is healthy and has a good form. Here's that same tree in section. The green box represents the tree trimming that would be needed if the backstays connect to the deck, such as with the two pile on configuration, or with a single centered pile on configuration. The blue box represents trimming needed if we use a single offset pile on so that the backstays do not need to attach to the deck. We studied many pile on and cable configurations, considering simplicity, tree impacts, the structural system and constructability. For example, shown here is a symmetrically placed single pile on with a deck form that bulges around the interruption. We found that offsetting the pile on offers a more elegant solution. It keeps the deck design simpler, and it relates to the asymmetry of the traveled way. This is our recommended pile on configuration. Here is the proposed pile on and deck configuration from a westbound users view, and here from an eastbound users view. Note that for greater visual transparency and a more open user experience, we are proposing cable mesh instead of standard chain link fencing for the portions of the bridge over the freeway. Here's what cable mesh looks like. Here's what the proposed design looks like from the corner of Elliot and Armory. Note how the backstays are anchored to the ground, rather than to the deck. Here's the view looking up at the pile on. This is a southbound freeway driver's view at sunrise. We believe this bridge will be a landmark that is unique to Santa Rosa, a place maker that preserves the views of the hills, and of the skyline, and of the surrounding buildings. Here's a recap. Here's a video that will just take you through the various parts of the project. It runs two and a half minutes. So to conclude, we request that the board comment on and confirm the offset single pile on cable stayed bridge design shown tonight. As well as the designs shown for the bridge approaches and landings. Since 2019, we have received public comment regarding public art. So we are requesting today that the board provide additional direction regarding whether public art should be incorporated. And if so, how we look forward to your discussion and we'll be happy to answer questions. Thanks, Steven. That concludes our presentation this evening. Cool. Thank you, applicant team and grant. So I think what we'll do. So this, this is a concept item. So we're, we're, you know, we don't have to open for public hearing or whatever. But what our board typically does is we do allow public comment for the members of the public that are attending. So before we go into questions and comments from the board. I think we'll do a public comment. Does that sound good to everybody. Okay, so. If, if you are attending the meeting. And you wish to speak on this topic. You will, you'll get three minutes. And so the recording secretary. Michelle will put up on the screen here. A little timer. And so you'll, you'll get acknowledged kind of individually and Michelle will state your name. And then we'll take a couple of seconds to make sure that we can hear you. And then we'll go into your public comment. And so we'll typically the board will take notes. I tend to take notes of public comment the rest of the board does as well as the staff. And then we'll, we'll bring it back to the board and the board will ask questions of the applicant and staff about the project and typically. Public comment that, you know, we keep hearing kind of the same thing over and over again. We'll likely ask that of staff. And or the applicant and then, and then, you know, public comment may also key off a question for us as well. So with that, without further ado, we'll go to public comment now. And Michelle, it looks like Steve sold us as the first one, at least on my screen. Great. Thank you so much. Steve, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Yes, thank you for taking my comment. My name is Steve so this time live at or my office is 1955 Cleveland on the corner of Cleveland and Edwards. And as been mentioned numerous times in comments, but I just want to get more comfort feeling bridges attract homeless and look at every under underpass and every bridge around town it's over the cabinets. I know that you're doing your best to prevent this by putting rocks and type of foliage but over time that. The foliage goes away, the landscape can can wear out of the way, but more importantly is underneath the bridge I didn't realize was going to be a sidewalk. What is the city going to do to prevent that from becoming homeless a camp in because it's underneath and protect them from the weather. The second question I have is, is Edwards going to get redesigned. It's going to be a beautiful bridge is going to have a nice landing. The rest of Edwards that street kind of looks unincorporated. I think that I've talked with Lance in the past and there's been discussion about maybe doing something that make the street look more appealing but I'm just curious, because the one big problem we have right now is parking. And as soon as the exporting goods kicks everybody out of the parking spaces over there, we're going to have a real crisis of parking on our hands is there a way that we can incorporate more parking along Edwards down farther after the landing. Maybe a perpendicular type of parking that can allow more of the cars to park there. On that street. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. And then it looks like Michelle, you got the next one there. Thank you. David, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute yourself. And then if you could please start by stating your name for the record when the timer restarts. Thank you. Okay. My name is David Harris and I have commented before to design review and I have been following this bridge project since 2004. The daughter was a senior in high school. I've been watching this since before we got her from China. But it was this overcrossing was first illustrated in public works as an option in the one on one widening. And then in 2009 and 10, the Northwest Santa Rosa smart design competition, which was sponsored by Redwood Empire. And then in 2008 and the leadership Institute, there was a design competition and entry by Paul Harris raised the vision of a steel trust over crossing that also served the role of the place maker defining element for its specific location and the judge panelists from the national team that came Georgia Tech Professor Ellen Dunham Jones said, I'm always pleased to see infrastructure used for public place making. It's a place maker that we all know, but it's not infrastructure. The Golden Gate Bridge is both infrastructure and place maker. But things have changed a lot since 2004 when I started thinking about this and realizing the urgent need to make personal choices that contribute to protecting the future. And that raises a question of how a place maker might also communicate and motivate prudent personal choices goes beyond just having the place maker be a piece of art, like is the case with Golden Gate Bridge over one on one. What might draw attention of not only the adult drivers, but also the kids in the backseat. That's really what is driving my interest in the type of place makers that this could be. It needs to be highly visible, have a catchy illustrations. The goal is to inform people about alternative transportation that exists in that very place and right now you can't tell that there's a smart station just a short distance away. And nobody notices that but to motivate people that biking and walking in North Santa Rosa can get you many places. You might call it propaganda and not art, but I suggest that this art needs to carry a message, not simply be pleasing to look at and steel trust bridges are a good background for that, but I want to draw attention to the fact that we are here talking about a expensive project, and that is not a role that's given to design review. We need to really look at the expense difference. We have a one of a kind that is potentially going to have cost overruns. And we need to look at the option of a steel trust because it's off the shelf, a readily available and far more predictable in construction. Thanks, Mr Harris. We appreciate your comments. Michelle next one. Hey, next, we have Frank Frank, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute yourself and if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Yeah, go ahead. Am I ready. You are ready go ahead. Okay, I'm on Frank Hague. I'm the treasure of the homeowners association on Edwards Avenue, right across the street from exporting goods. I have a lot of concerns about traffic and parking. And we also have concerns about access to the, the property on the south side of Edwards Avenue right across from exporting goods. I wonder if that's going to be impacted. And to what degree, what mitigation efforts are going to be made in that respect. And the last question regarding this is the design. And I think that's what the design review board is all about is why do you need to have that pile on with all those wires running back and forth like that. Is it because of some artistic statement, I'm not sure. Maybe you could eliminate that and save some money, because obviously there's going to be some cost over rides on this project. So those are the concerns we have particularly with the traffic and the parking on Edwards Avenue, and the impact it will have on the south side of Edwards Avenue, right across from exporting goods. Thanks. Thank you very much. Mr. Hey, Michelle, let's go to the next one. Great, we have Dylan Dylan, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please state your full name for the record. Hello, can hear me. We can hear you go ahead. Yeah, so my name is Dylan Kendall. I live in the Ridgeway neighborhood. So just the other side of the freeway there. So I'm highly in favor of this project. The landing on the Edwards side, I see there's a curb cut there for pedestrians. And next to it is the entrance for the Dix parking lot. And there was a division between those two curb cuts. And I think for bikes getting on and off the bridge, a wider curb cut there that connects and conjoins us to would be better. You also mentioned the touchdown on the JC side, having no vehicles. So I'd like to see some bullets there. A lot of the times people seem to put up delineators, which are just plastic pylons that get knocked over and don't actually prevent people from entering where they're not supposed to go. And this, this project, having the feasibility study done back in 2007. It's such a long time overdue. As we go forward, we need to have a more green city that's more equitable more connected and a better quality of life. And these human scale pedestrian bike projects are the way to do that. We need to stop focusing so much on our auto centric design and design more for people to get where they need to go and improve their lives. Thank you. We appreciate your comments. Michelle next one. Next, we have L Willard. If you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute yourself and if you could please start by stating your full name for the record. My chair we go and design review board members. I'm a Willard Richards. I've followed this project as a supporter since its inception. When completed, it will be an important part of our transportation infrastructure. More than ever, it is important that people walk bicycle and take public transit instead of driving. I strongly favor the Edwards Edward Elliott alignment and the cable stay design and recommend that the design review board approve them. I'm sure to see this bridge design rather than a trust design. And I think that many community members and visitors would have the same preference. The design of the landings has been improved, and I recommend that you improve them. And I'm concerned that changing the design at this time would delay the project and do not expect that it did that design change would decrease the total project costs. Thank you. Thanks, Mr Richards, we appreciate that Henry before moving to the next one, Henry, you had your hand up. Was that an accident there. Okay, accident. So, Michelle, let's move on to the next public comment there, please. And then, but before we do that, I noticed Frank Hague has his hand raised again. If so, typically, we don't grant folks a second chance to speak in our public comments. However, if there is another person watching with Mr. Hague and they wish to speak. We have allowed that in the past so I did just want to happen to notice that so Mr Hague if there's not another person there with you not wishing to speak if you could lower your hand in the zoom application that would help us immensely appreciate you. And so Michelle let's go to the next one. Great, you have Julia Julia you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute yourself and if you could please state your name for the record. I'm Julia Donohoe. Can you hear me. We can hear you boy. Great. I'm an architect, and I was part of the smart ideas competition with I was the co-chair with Tanya Nereth back in 2009 2010. We brought experts from all over the country to talk about urban sign and the design by Paul Harris that came about was really about marking the place that you're passing through as something significant and Santa Rosa something significant and he referenced the old Redwood highway. There's so many things that are happening at this intersection of our world the Gernville road the wine, the gateway to wine country, the JC Schultz Museum and ice arena. This is not the Sonoma County County Center the county town mall, and all those things and the cable state bridge to me feels like a very Swiss engineering beautiful efficient example of how to span but not really referencing something integral to the nature of our community. I'm not a verse to the cable stay or the trust or whatever I'm just more interested in that the expression what what drew said in the previous meeting was the bridge should be the artwork, and my professor was David who who stressed that the structure and the art should should be integral. And what Stephen has designed is is a beautiful piece of artwork but it's not really referential to the speed and pace of Santa Rosa and and what all the the fruits of what we have to offer here so I'm just not not advocating one trust or cable stayed I do think cost is an important but I really do think that this, this should be a signpost really for Santa Rosa, and urge some sort of a public process that will allow something to evolve that might be more collaborative. Like when we did the obelisk down on Santa Rosa Avenue that that included by people and engineering and art, all coming together into a monument for our community that that did express something to the community so I really think you should confirm the approaches he's done a great job there. I'm really excited about the bridge I'm glad we have money for it. And I really urge us to think of a place maker and not as something that preserve but something that marks the passage and for people going through Santa Rosa to know that there's things to discover here. It should in somehow some way say Viking it should in some way say smart train it should in some way say county town mall it should in some way say Charles Schultz and it shouldn't be like images posted on what drew said is right we shouldn't have to stick images on there but the design should somehow say that these things are happening here and there's something to see. Thank you. Thank you, Leah for your comments. So Michelle, I think it looks like Frank Hague is next. So I'm going to assume that there is another person there. So if you could grant that, and then we'll see. And if not, then we'll have to cut it. Is that okay. Yes. Frank, you should have a prompt allowing your second person to unmute themselves and if they can please state their name for the record. Can you hear me. Sorry, my one other question I had for the design portion. Mr. Hague, I'm sorry. I don't know if you heard me, but we grant everybody three minutes. And if there's an additional person at your household that would like to speak besides you. Okay, but you've already gotten your three minutes. So we appreciate we want to hear your question but unfortunately we have to let everybody have three minutes. We can't give you four minutes or five minutes. I'm sorry I make sense. I would only take 15 seconds because it's a it's a safety concern. Mr. Hague, go ahead quickly. All right, at the West End where at the bridge at the West End at Edward on Edwards Avenue, where the track where they there's a crosswalk. My concern is about the traffic signal that should be there, or some sort of alert to the traffic that people want to cross. I'm concerned about the safety. Sure. Well, we'll be sure to ask the design team about that. Thank you. I'm sure. Yeah, thank you so much. All right, Michelle, let's move on to Elizabeth Riddlington please. Elizabeth, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Okay, I'm Elizabeth Riddlington. I am the vice chair of the city's bike and pedestrian advisory board. And I am delighted that this project is moving forward after so many years with so many people working to make this a reality. I think getting a bridge across the 101 is critically important for enticing more people to feel comfortable riding and walking as a mode of transportation around town. Along those lines, I feel very strongly that the offset pile on, as opposed to the steel truss design is much more appealing. It feels open. It feels airy. It's inviting, whereas the images that I've seen and some of the slides that were circulated in advance of this meeting made the steel truss design look quite enclosed and unappealing. I have lived in Santa Barbara for a number, I lived in Santa Barbara for a number of years and continue to visit for work. And there I have the experience of crossing an old school bridge that's bike and pedestrian bridge that's quite enclosed. It's unappealing. It feels like something you, it's practical, but it doesn't invite, whereas there's a newer crossing there that though it has cars on it is actually much more appealing as a cyclist or pedestrian because it is open and broad feels like you're elevated up into the sky. It's a pleasure to ride on. And I would like to be able to have that experienced here in Santa Rosa. And so for that reason, I really like the proposed design that was presented to us here today. In addition, I would like this bridge to be a bridge for pedestrians and cyclists. It shouldn't be something that is there and designed to deliver a message to people in cars to tell people about other attractions and features of our community. It needs to be designed as a mode of a way to facilitate carbon free transportation and to make that very appealing to people who live here, not to people who are driving through or visiting. So I continue to be strongly in support of the pylon style. Then as to the specific design on the landing and I have said this before I think at previous meetings but I would strongly prefer to have a straight, not a wandering sidewalk underneath the landing on the west end. I walk as a mode of transportation. I want to get from point A to point B as quickly as I can and it's lovely if it's pleasant along the way but I'd like to be able to walk in straight line. And I think that's all I have. Thank you very much. Thank you, Elizabeth. We appreciate your comments. Michelle, let's move to the next one please. Next we have galaxy J7V. You should have a prompt allowing you to unmute yourself and if you could please state your full name for the record. My name is Thomas Ells and I am a member of the Transportation and Land Use Coalition and Friends of Smart and I appreciate the opportunity to speak. I've been involved in SMART for many, many years back with George Elman and Bill Cordon and I believe that both the Transportation and Land Use and the Friends of Smart would like to have a reference to the stop, the station there. I'm also a civil engineer, an environmental engineer and it happened to be an anthropologist if that means anything in the way of art and evaluation. The Pylon Bridge and New Bridge is, as the previous commenter mentioned, open and inviting and my experience. We have several pedestrian bridges and we have a choice between the utilitarian and the artwork. We have the utilitarian ones. They don't express anything really. You just go past them and you hope nobody drops something on you really. Maybe somebody brings up a political sign or something but here we have this opportunity as the competition. People believe that it could express something about Santa Rosa there and it seems to be a good opportunity. I think we have the opportunity that is to do both things is to have that artistic expression and to also have a couple of place making statements or ideas, concepts that could be incorporated, but they should be incorporated as art. They shouldn't be incorporated as a Caltrans sign. In fact, Caltrans itself has just opened itself up to art being placed within the right of way. So there's a whole new process essentially completely separate from this to allow on Caltrans property, not on this, which would not be Caltrans property, I don't believe, but to allow art and the point is that art could be there. It could be very beneficial and it doesn't have to be precluding either visibility. They could be very airy. It could just be outline of whatever it is. Caltrans generally only wants to have one or two elements on any type of sign, so it's not distracted. So that would be a limit. But it's really important. I think it's great idea. Thank you very much. Thanks so much for your comments. Michelle, let's move to the next one, please. Alicia, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please state your name for the record. Hi, my name is Alicia Ray. And I wanted to point out, hold on just one minute. Will you mute please. I was getting feedback on this end. What I wanted to say is I've been speaking to some people who've talked to city council members and people in the city council who have said that whichever design is coming out of this design review board process is the design review board process. And if that is true, and the design review board sends back, we want a pylon bridge. That means that at this stage of the process, the cost to actually produce this bridge is not going to be revisited by the city council. And the costs relative to a pylon bridge that's being designed by a designer and has, as far as I know, one company has been allowed to bid only on the actual construction of this project that the relative cost between this one off architect designed and one company being allowed to bid alone for that bridge is not being compared to anything else that might be cheaper, possibly a trustee bridge that could be elegant and open and light and have art added to it and come in several millions of dollars cheaper is a concern of mine that this process has circumvented. If it's true that the city council will take this proposal by you and not revisit cost issues, then if you put in, we want a pylon bridge. The whole question of how much this bridge is going to cost versus other equally good solutions is going to be null and void if you submit a neutral recommendation. A neutral recommendation to the city council, they would then be more open to considering cost and understanding whether a pylon bridge is truly what the city needs or maybe something less expensive might be more appropriate. Thank you for taking my comments. We appreciate your comments. Michelle, the next one on the list, please. Gina, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please state your name for the record. Hi, my name is Gina hun singer and I live in working Santa Rosa, and I've done that for decades. I am currently the director of the Charles Schultz Museum. We have heard from several citizens that they love the idea of place making art. And that the penis characters would be something that they would like seen on the overpass and I just wanted you to know, as a point of reference that the Schultz family is aware of this. Charles Schultz. It's the only place in the world. You can call the home of Snoopy, because Charles Schultz lived and worked and played here for the last 30 years of his life. So the Schultz family is interested at this point. If that is something that the community wants and I just wanted you to know that. I just wanted to add that in the back of your mind. We think it's fabulous that you're doing this, of course to to encourage pedestrian and biking and other modes of transportation like smart train. This is there's so much to do here. There's so much and I'm glad the access is coming you know I have the Children's Museum of Sonoma County you've got the ice rain you've got Codding Town. There's just so much for people to do in this area and that is all I have to say thank you. Thanks Gina we appreciate your comments. Michelle let's move on to the next public commenter. Next we have Jack. Jack you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you can please state your name for the record. Hello I'm Jack Swaringen. Can you hear me. We can hear you. I'm chair of Friends of Smart and I've been pursuing this project almost as long as David Harris, not quite. And I consider two major victories already in pocket. The first one is there's a bridge at all. The second is that it's located at Edwards Alley and instead of Bear Cub Way. The reason I think those are victories is because part of my envision vision is to get people from JC to and from the smart station at Greenville Road. That's my Friends of Smart angle on this. My personal angle is I'm also a cyclist and often cycle west to east across the city. And this will be great as a cyclist even though I'm not a JC student and I don't live in the JC neighborhood. This is a wonderful and vital link. I appreciate that. There's some victories already in hand. I thank you for the parts you played in this. This cable seat design that you have seen and heard about is elegant in its own right, even attractive. It's a showpiece, if you will. But place making as I understand it is more than that. It's Santa Rosa as a place not just an overcrowding as a place. And people I don't think will come to Santa Rosa to see this over crossing. Alligators it may be. So I'm looking to try to tell them to travelers who are on their way through to go to the north coast to tell them there are other ways to get here, at least to Santa Rosa. And secondly, once you're here there are attractions in Santa Rosa that you already heard about from Gina and others. So how can we do that? I don't know pose a give or say bridge per se is elegant. And yet the cost concerns me a little bit how can we achieve place making and alternative transportation. So we're building an elegant bridge. That's a difficult conclusion to come to. But that's my request of you and one last thing. And that is that the highway green highway signs on one on one that shows in the video, going to block much of the information that we might put on a bridge. So that's a problem as we overcome. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Jack. We appreciate your comments. Let's move on to the next one, please. John, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please state your name for the record. John, I do see that you are unmuted, but we are not hearing you. Okay, so it looks like we're still not hearing you. What you can do is call in to the meeting, the information, the phone number and meeting ID are at the bottom of the public comment site that is on the screen currently. If you want to call in, you can press star nine and that will raise your hand, and we'll be able to take your comment that way. So I'd like Michelle I'd like to do this well let's move on to the next commenter and then maybe John has either going to call in or he's going to reinstall zoom or whatever we've had that before. So we'll go through the next couple of folks here and then if Mr. Sutter is not back, we'll maybe launch into our questions and then if he comes back we'll drop back and try to take his comment so it looks like the next one is Elizabeth Riddlington which we've already heard from, but perhaps there is a another member for household wishing to speak. And so, or, or not. Okay, there we go. And went down. That's the last one here Michelle thanks. Great, thank you, Jenny. You should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Sure, thank you. My name is Jenny Bard, and I have lived in Santa Rosa for 35 years, mostly in the JC neighborhood and I served on the city's first bike and pet advisory board. I just want to say it's so exciting to be here as a bridge gets closer to fruition. I think that this is going to be one of the most important infrastructure projects in Santa Rosa's history. Having a safe way to travel east and west for cyclists and pedestrians has never been more needed and urgent. And I think it'll help put Santa Rosa on the map as a bicycle friendly destination. So, great to hear all the other commenters. I agree that the bridge will serve as a place maker. And I would love to explore how we can showcase our city's world renowned Schultz Snoopy connection. I would love to see bicycle and other art wayfaring signage and other creative design elements incorporated throughout so that the bridge. This is in the exit and the whole experience of getting to writing on walking on getting off is a is an experience it's a discovery. For those who use it, and it then becomes a destination like the wonderful bridge up in sundial bridge. Anyway, in addition to being a very important community connector. I wanted to also point out that I really appreciated the consideration that Steven Grover mentioned at the beginning of how the pedestrian and bicycle circulation to and from the bridge will integrate with the SRJC. We know this is really important and glad that that process is going on. I would like to ask what additional bicycle infrastructure will be considered to make bicycling safe and inviting, such as protected bike lanes and lower cars feeds on the key doors that are leading to the bridge for bicycle bicyclists. So that that's my question. Those are my comments. I really appreciate your consideration of all the comments today. Thank you. Thank you, Jenny. We appreciate that. And it looks like we have a new hand raised here. So we'll go to that person. But if Mr. Sutter still is trying to log in or call in. Oh, hey, show back up. Awesome. So we'll go to the next person and then we'll go to John Sutter last. James, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please start by stating your name for the record. James, if you would like to unmute and state your name for the record. James, it looks like we cannot hear your audio. If you would like to use the call in information on the timer slide to call in and give your public comment or if you would like to update your zoom and then try again. Are you talking to James? Hello. Yes, it seems like we're there. Yeah. James E. Berger. Yeah, okay. I've lived here in Santa Rosa. If you so, Mr. Berger, if you could start over state your name and any other pertinent information for public for the public record, that'd be great. And then we'll start the clock. Mr. Berger, I'm here to talk about the place making for the bridge. I think it's a wonderful bridge. And I've lived in Santa Rosa since 1964, live in the same house since 1967. Children's dentist will practice for 30 years. I've been in numerous boards, the Volunteer Center, the Food Bank, YMCA, and been involved with the Schultz Museum, which is an absolute wonderful thing here in town. They, the Schultz Museum is making Santa Rosa a worldwide visitor center. And I think that place making on that bridge for with some things about the Schultz Museum. And it's wonderful because there's only about three blocks away from the Schultz Museum. The ice rink. And I think I think that there would be one of the things that really sort of would make Santa Rosa a wonderful place. So that concludes your comments. We appreciate you, Mr. Berger. I'm for the bridge and I'm all for the place making of, you know, maybe something, some things about the Schultz Museum, or the Schultz are just sparky, snoopy, things like that. That would be something that people would just going through there, they'd recognize that the world recognizes those things, and this would be something world recognition would be wonderful here for Santa Rosa. Thank you so much, Mr. Berger. We appreciate your comments and now, Michelle, let's go back to Mr. Sutter here and see if we have some some sound. Great, John, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. If you are a call in listener, you can press star nine. Hello. Great, we can hear you now go ahead. Oh, right. The wonders of modern modern communication when they work. As you said, my name is John Sutter I live at 618 Victor Drive about four blocks from the Elliott landing. I'm delighted to see this bridge going forward. I like the design I think it's memorable that at least the ones that are shown in your announcement of this meeting. It reminds me of the Bay Bridge, which kind of, you know, we could call it Bay Bridge North, maybe. And I, my office is a mile away on the other side of 101. And unfortunately, I drive every day. And I do drive an electric car, but I'm still cluttering the street. And because I'm not going to walk underneath 101 it just. It's not a pleasant experience. Once this bridge is built. I will bike or walk probably every day that it's not raining can't wait for it to happen. I'll point out that the JC you probably I came in late so I'm probably all this has been discussed, but the JC is building a very large dorm complex on the corner of Elliott and Armory. I can't wait to have that bridge there to reduce the car congestion in my neighborhood. And you should be able to go to college without having to own a car. This will help promote that and help lower income students attend college. I think peanuts reference somehow would be wonderful, very appropriate. And I'm certainly not sure how it could be incorporated. But, you know, if we could call it. Peanuts Bridge North or some such thing. And I just want to commend everyone that's contributed to moving this project forward. So building bridges across existing freeways is not a simple measure and and I great a lot of rain power has taken place to get us to this point. And let's keep rolling and I'm perfectly happy with the design as shown. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Sutter. We appreciate your comments and I'm glad that technology did not fail us at this time. I don't see any additional hands raised. So we're going to run through our normal order of order of operations here. And I'm going to ask the recording secretary if we received any voicemails at the city for this project. We did not receive any voice bells. Cool. And then did we receive any additional emails between what was included as late correspondence in the duck in the packet. Anything beyond that? We did receive one other email besides the late correspondence that I sent earlier today. I'm not sure if Amy would like to touch on that or if she would. Yeah, if Amy if Amy could summarize that email and read it into the record that would be fantastic. I'm happy to do that. Let me go ahead and pull it up. Just on city procedure. We don't read them verbatim anymore. If you just want to summarize a brief summary. Yes, I just wanted to make sure that I provided an accurate summary. So this email supports the over crossing based on our current climate climate change outcome. And it supports using the peanuts characters on the bridge as well. And I'm not aware of any additional email that that was received besides that one since the late correspondence. Yeah, it looked like I'm looking at that same email just to make sure it was this and that you summarize it perfectly me thanks so much. So, again, seeing no more. So seeing no additional hands raised, we will now close public comment. And I'm going to bring it back to the board. And so typically what we do is if there's an item that came up during public comment that I heard I heard a couple of times. I'll summarize those four staff and see if we can maybe get an answer. I heard questions from the board and they may bring up something that they heard in public comment, or an additional question or comment so I heard a cup I heard this this comment a couple times from members of the public and I think the design team and so maybe Grant and Steven Grover can maybe respond to this. So, and I'm going to tie it together. It's kind of two questions and one maybe. So, it seems like there was some folks didn't quite understand how a cable stay bridge works, why there's all the cables going down to support the deck and running back to the tower. Obviously being then tied back down to the ground so the things don't fall over. So maybe we could explain that a little bit and then talk a little bit about costs. So the difference between cost of just kind of bridges in general right now. I know that in my world. So, I'm an architect in my world costs are kind of crazy right now. And they've been going up anywhere from, you know, six to 15% year over year escalation for the last about five years. So that's about right Henry, Henry's an architect. So yeah we've seen pretty crazy escalation in the construction industry. I imagine any sort of solution right now is going to be expensive, given that, and probably a grant with this project also have to have prevailing wages part of it. Yes, also drive up the cost. Yes. So that's sorry I gave you a bunch of questions. No problem. That's the desert desert are all good questions. So I'm actually going I could probably explain the one that I'm going to stay but I think I'm going to defer that one to Steven and then once he explains it all follow up with a discussion of cost. Does that work for you Steven. Sure. Thanks. Let me share my screen real quick. So, this is the bridge deck. Long here. And it's held up by these cables. They all tie into the tower or the pylon. And so the pylon is pushing down into the ground like that. Now because these cables are at an angle. There's a component of force that's pushing back this way to a big component and that's resisted by this element right here. And then last but not least, this big pylon, because it's holding up all these cables, we have to prevent it from rotating to the left. So these backstays do. They hold it down by anchoring into the ground. Perfect. Thanks so much for explaining that Steven, I know, I know a structural engineering is a lost concept on lots of folks and especially something that is culturally beautiful but also engineering engineering complex, a complex piece of engineering as well. But also kind of simple at the same time in a way. Did you speak a little bit about costs now? Yes, of course. So, we did expect a question to come up of cost. When comparing the cable stay and the trust bridge, just based on the amount of public comment received leading up to this meeting. And, you know, support of the trust bridge type. So that is the, I guess, we're most prepared to speak to the comparison costs of the cable stay versus the trust type. And really, you know, we worked with another bridge supplier. So, you know, based on the public comment we received, we took it very seriously and wanted to come and provide good information to the board and the public. And what we came up with was it appears that the trust type bridge is approximately 10% less costly than the cable stay bridge. However, along the lifecycle costs of the bridge, there's a significant or the two bridge types there's a significant amount, significantly more steel in the trust type bridge as opposed to the cable stay and the maintenance of the steel over the life of the bridge would approximately offset that 10% upfront construction cost cost. So when you consider the overall cost of both structures over the life, they should be approximately the same cost. So, so, yeah, so that's great grand I appreciate that so and for those of for everybody may not understand this. So the cable stay bridge, as I understand it, and I could be wrong, and Stephen and Grant can correct me, but the deck is made of concrete, a precast concrete element, correct. I put a surface on it, and then the cables are made of steel steel cable and they run back to a, I imagine a steel pylon. Correct. Am I right so far. I think it might be a precast pylon sorry Stephen you had the pylon we steal and the deck would be steel and concrete hybrid structure concrete hybrid okay cool. The key distinction is the amount of surface area. Exactly. So anyway, so then you've got a steel pylon, and then you've got steel cables and basically from a maintenance standpoint, as I understand it, we really only need to paint the pylon potentially, right, and, and, and maintain the cables and the cables would likely be made out of stainless steel or something like that so they wouldn't necessarily need to be painted. Correct. Correct. And then, so then if we go to a bridge as Stephen has on the screen, that's all that's steel members, right so those would need to be maintained over the lifetime of the bridge, painted every couple years much like the Golden Gate bridges painted all of its steel members right as weather attacks the paint paint chips off people flight the paint off you have to paint paint you have to maintain those elements and so if I'm understanding you grant that process over the life cycle of the bridge. So that offsets the initial upfront cost of the cable stickers that that about correct. Correct, yep. Perfect, yes, so I just I wanted to make it a little bit easier to understand for maybe someone who wasn't an architect or a structure. I know that was like that was a great layman's description I really appreciate that. No problem. So that being said those were kind of the big. Big questions that I heard so I'm going to turn it back over the board now. And so we're going to run through questions of the applicant team about the design and and then we'll do kind of our design comments after that. So we'll do our questions first and then the design comments so I would like to start with Jessica for her questions. So I think this is probably a question for staff maybe supervising engineer Bailey. If the design were to change with this create delays for the project. And that's what they've done my questions right now. Yes, so I would probably delay the design effort anywhere from six months minimum to, you know, a year or more. And the, what's, what's problematic about that at this point is we have construction funding as I mentioned, the 12 million that was awarded in June, as well as approximately six and a half million, or almost a million more dollars that are funded for the use of her to be allocated to construction in 2023 2024 or fiscal year 2020. Yeah, 2023 basically, and if we were to change the design at this point. It's possible, or likely even that that funding that's been allocated for the construction in 2023 could be jeopardized. Thanks Sheila board member wicks questions. Yes, for Mr Grover. Thank you for the beautiful presentation. An extreme amount of work. I commend you for all of the videos, graphics, etc. I also thank you very much for listening to us back in April of 2019 and I just want to let you know that was one of my first meetings as a board member and when I kind of called it as I saw it at the time and I called them TV rabbit ears. And I since then I've learned to temper my comments, just a little bit and and try to put them in in a more constructive manner but it, it, it. I love the single state that you, you've come up with and brought before us. My question is, could you, could you pull up the graphic that you were drawing on just a minute ago. Sure. So, this truly shows the art form that that you've designed and and and commend you for and my question is when you add and overlay the required guard rail on to it. That's a necessity keep people from falling off the bridge, the, the, the secondary one as it goes over the highway imagine that's a Caltrans requirement where the guard railing goes from say 42 inches high above the walking depth to how high does it how high does it go. So there are two types of approved quote misal proof fencing configurations. One is eight feet high with it curving over your head, or 10 feet high, if it's flat. And we're recommending the latter solution with as visually open material as possible. Right. And I've noticed, I noticed you've got a very inventive way of attaching that cable mesh to the cable supports of the bridge. Or there, there's some sort of a turnbuckle that helps support the cable for the top of that 10 foot cable mesh. Am I reading your drawings correctly. Yes, a dual cable clamp that clamps from the hanger cables to the top of the cable mesh, so that we essentially eliminate as much as possible. Okay. So, and that that extent of that 10 foot tall. What'd you call it a missile. They can tell trans calls it missile proof fencing so people can't throw missiles down onto the freeway. I learned something new tonight. Okay. So that that that missile proof fencing that starts at at each edge of 101. Correct. It's a certain distance beyond a little bit or is it. I'm sure there's some guidelines for it. But here's my question. I'm getting I'm warming up to the question so that 10 feet and that top cable is there. Is there a way or did you look at potentially taking that 10 feet and bringing it more elegant design, bringing it down to zero to the 42 inch high cable. And I know it would have to go beyond the 101 extents but and then I was thinking maybe even it could be asymmetrical on the Edward side where it would mimic the the pylon. But as it as it went to the Edwards angled on the Elliott side, and then I was I was just just wondering if you thought about I don't mess with your design. I but I, I'm just wondering if it was ever discussed or if there's a possibility of adding one last little bit of elegance to it by not having it just abruptly stop at both ends and have it gracefully terminate it down to the 42 inch card real high for example. Thank you. Yes, we're very interested in finding an elegant and simple and graceful way of terminating the higher fencing at each side of the freeway. We've looked at a variety of options and have not yet found something that, you know, really clicks for us to be perfectly frank. Okay. That's my only question. Thanks, Henry. We'll go to board member Sharon now. Perfect, because I had the question about the fencing as well. And yes, to continue what Henry was saying, it is, you know, the elegant solution that you propose. It was kind of jarring to see that in the renderings to see that the stark kind of drop off of the fencing. And glad to hear that you're looking at options. One of the things I saw really looked at at what you had because in the specifically in the flyovers and in the 3D renderings and it looked almost wall like and so I wanted to see what that was what is made of it. So thank you for including those details of the wire mesh and of the turnbuckles. So the question about that the, what's the kind of spacing with when you have the, the clips that are on the wire mesh would, you know, what's sort of the spacing of the mesh, you know, as a roughly equivalent to a chain link fence or I think we're going to have to have approximately one inch openings. Yeah, to address your other question, the spacing of the cables is 28 feet, where they attach to the deck. Okay, and the wall like appearance in the renderings is an artifact of the, it's the software it, it would not appear like the reality. Definitely. Yeah, and I've run into that as well just thought we should point that out that it's not a wall like thing it will be visually permeable as you're going through. And I think that, yeah, Henry did a great job with with bringing up the idea of I like any idea of tapering it down. Something like that. A couple other questions. Is there a landscape architect on the design team. Yes, there is. There's I didn't see it on any of the. I think I didn't see it on the disclosure sheet or is it, are they included in anywhere. And is that her name is Laura Baldwin, and she's also an arborist. Okay, I was wondering about the arborist too. Okay, great. I just want to reference to the landscape designer on there wanted to see if there was someone so I'm glad to see that there's someone on the team. I wonder because you're getting into talking about the plantings and specific species. So, but they like to see that because the underneath, especially on the Edward side underneath the bridge there and then on the Elliott side with other things are kind of sticky wickets to figure out, and also great opportunities. And so having some really good design thinking there is a great opportunity to go with that. With the question of, I guess this is for city staff now. Is there any discussion or with with traffic with with even addressing how the bike and pedestrian infrastructure interfaces with the existing city infrastructure, street infrastructure that is, and how potentially any new changes to the streetscape that are going to happen, you know, thinking bike lanes, specifically also lighting for the crosswalk but just wondering if, if that's going to be farther down the line, really looking at how this is going to, you know, this bridge itself is going to bleed out into the into the surrounding communities from a transportation standpoint. Yes. So we've been working with transportation planner Nancy Adams and deputy director of traffic, Rob sprinkle to look at the on Edwards on the west side, kind of improving the bike facilities. It is a planned project and it will occur independently from the from the over crossing project. But it's the improvements are well, relatively minor relative compared to this project and we since we still have a couple of years designed to design to go until we get to construction and then two more years till construction is complete. We have some time to gather funding, you know, contemplate the alternatives, but we are certainly looking at making improvements to Edwards in the form of bike lanes and traffic calming measures to facilitate the, you know, increased or improve the facilities along Edwards. And then on Elliott's the JC, this is a independent project from the city, the JC is currently undertaking a pilot program to close a portion of of Elliott to, you know, again, facilitate bike and pedestrian movements through the campus that closure is only being contemplated on further down Elliott east of the of the landing. But from what I hear if if the pilot program goes well they will be considering additional closures along the Elliott so long answer to say yes, we are considering how we can improve the bike and pedestrian facilities as they connect to this project. Okay, great. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that those conversations are, you know, being considered and ongoing. What we'd want to do is to, you know, have the proverbial bridge to nowhere. And, you know, transportation needs to be part of a network, rather than standalone and so the best bridge in the world but if it doesn't connect, or if it drops you to a considerable point, then it's not going to be used as much so glad to hear that it's going to be a design project and the city is looking at it and that the JC is looking at it and with their street closure it's going to be potential potential part of that. So, great thank you for addressing that that answers my questions thank you. Thanks Adam and we'll go to questions from board member McEw now. Yeah, I'm not anymore. I'm curious about what happens after this bridge is constructed. Is it in my understanding correctly in this for city staff that the city bears responsibility for building the bridge. They're going to pay the city's going to pay for the construction of the bridge. And the city's secured a number of grant funding sources through the active transportation program, state transportation improvement program and a number of other funding sources and we based on the current construction estimates. We should be funded to begin construction in 2023. Once the bridge is built, who is responsible for maintaining the bridge. Caltrans or is the city. So, that hasn't been finalized at this point we as we work through the design, one of the conditions to move into the construction phase of the project is to finalize a maintenance agreement. Right now, the city is working is negotiating with Caltrans to to finalize that. And we were working towards. Hopefully a shared maintenance agreement. Typically when, when, for example, an overpass is built is that typically the process that's used that there's some kind of maintenance agreement between Caltrans and say the city with respect to the maintenance of that overpass. Yes, there will be a maintenance agreement. Similarly, I think the city holds a maintenance agreement for the current bike and ped over crossing south of this crossing. So yes, there will be an established maintenance agreement. So it'd be reasonable to be reasonable to conclude that that one of the reasons or maybe it's off base but correct me if I'm wrong. One of the reasons that you've chosen this design, perhaps is over time. This design is is much easier to maintain than a steel trust design. And that the problem being though I think some of the comments I heard from the public, it's it's be quite difficult to hang art off of this kind of a design where it would be much easier to hang art off of a steel trust bridge. I'm guessing that's kind of where where people are going and people are advocating for the steel trust. I think it's better to be able to hang art off of it. Your comments to answer your first question maintenance was considered in the different structure types and yes that's true as previously discussed the maintenance long term maintenance of this bridge is will be less costly than a steel trust type bridge and I would agree with your your other comment that one of the concerns from the public that we have heard is that or I guess one of the advantages of the trust style bridges yes it provides a larger profile to use as an art surface or as to attach something to for our purposes. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Is that it John. That's it. Thanks. Appreciate you. So I was going. And then I was going through my notes here again. And one thing I think that was brought up by the public. I don't think we talked about here was. I wrote it down and I can't find it. Okay, yeah, I found it. So, in terms of existing existing signage on the freeway is anything. So there's that the green signs for the steel lane exit. Is there with with that sign remain in place. Would it be moved relocated adjusted in any way shape or form as a part of this project or in conjunction with Caltrans. I'm going to have to defer that one to Steven or Natalie and I think they'd have a better idea. But before I do that actually Steven messaged me and said he'd like to actually correct the record on the the cable spacing he stated it was 28 feet in 14 feet spacing on those cables so. And Steven or Natalie and I can you speak to the existing signage and the movement of or will it remain in place or will be relocated. Natalie and I think that's. Yes, now, based on the present design, the exit sign, which is I think what you're referring to will stay as present location. Cool, thanks so much. And then one final question. So I think you guys kind of address this at least. I know how it would have been addressed if I were working on a project when you were looking at the cable. Sorry, trust average, you, you basically you reached out to a contractor or to a vendor that supplies that so you could see what it looks like, and also cost estimated but they didn't quote unquote bid to build a trust style bridge. So I think that's a good comment about somebody saying that only one firm has been on this and we're not even at the bid process. Right, we're not even to bidding right because there are no construction documents. So really all you guys did was solicit assistance from a manufacturer to generate effectively. Well, if it was this kind of bridge it's this wide and it would cost this much money kind of thing is that more or less accurate. That is accurate and it was, you know, we, we went down that that path. So we could bring the most accurate cost information available to the board and the public during this meeting. Perfect. Thanks, Grant. Yeah, I mean, this is this is something that we would do as well, you know, in, you know, public or private work as we as we're trying to cost us to make a project we're going to talk to our partners and try to figure out what's the real world cost, so we can kind of sharpen our pencils and figure out the best usage of the project budget so exactly. Yep. Okay, cool. So any other questions from the board at this time. Did anything get stirred all we were asking questions. Okay, so not seeing any other questions I'd like to go to so our comments. And so, I'd like to start with maybe just to mix it up a little bit today, board members Sharon for your comments and so I know that is the wall before we do that Adam so the applicants asked and Steven just had it on the screen but to confirm the alignment, the pilot design to confirm kind of the overall design concept. And then the last one was about public art is where I think that big three things. So that's just to reiterate, yet we'd like to receive comments on and confirm the previous direction received from the board from 2019 on the cable say design. Also receive comments on the landings at Eastern, excuse me, Elliot and Edwards Avenue, and then also receive input on the art installation or the inclusion of art beyond just the structure itself. So does that make sense for everybody kind of so there's just kind of three things that we need to kind of say yes, yes, no to more or less and then kind of broken your, your general comments about the project and in addition to that. So we'll go with Adam. So go ahead, Henry. Sorry, can I can I get a clarification on on how we're supposed to comment on the art solutions or. But we didn't see any art examples of art either in the pedestrian way or on, you know, signage to and from the bridge on the bridge across 101. It's, it's kind of hard for me to make a comment about something that's subjective and I haven't seen it. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. So we were basing our design direction on the direction we received from the DRB previously to consider the bridge itself as the art statement and not add additional separate art elements to it. So that's the way we've been proceeding and we would appreciate additional direction on this from the DRB. So I could just add to Steven's comment as well. I think it may assist the board and understanding the next steps if so I think it was pretty high level question, you know, which is in essence, would the board like to see art beyond the structure or would they see art beyond the structure and if the answer is yes, then what staff will do then is move through the city's public art process. Attend or engage the art and public places coordinator and the art and public places committee as well. And we will work through the public art process. The city is established on the engagement and probably ultimately an RFP for our proposals and just to see how in our installation can be included on the over crossing. But we would only go through that process if the input from the board was, yes, for moving that direction. And I, at least from what I heard from both Steven and Grant, it's kind of the way I understood this as well is, I think, they're the design team looking direction, looking for direction from us, kind of I think it with regard to art in kind of one or two or both scenarios right. Do we want additional art on the bridge structure itself. Yes or no, that's kind of question one right. And the question too is do we want additional art at the landing zones incorporated with how you approach the bridge access the bridge and engage the bridge I think that's kind of the second one. And then the third, the third piece of the art is, is it no art at all, right. Is it just leave the bridge the way it is leave the landings the way it is, and just move forward. That's at least the way I understood it and couple that with the public comment we heard about potentially the engagement of peanuts characters or something like that. To me that screams, potentially dressing up the landings as an option I don't know so that's kind of what I was thinking is it would be one or some combination of those options. And if you disagree with me completely and want to suggest something else go right ahead. I think that that is, that would be how what you suggested would be very helpful, and I'll just add one other comment that I think we've heard from the community is, as far as how art could appear on the, the over crossing itself would be on the actual bike or walk path as well. So you mentioned the landings and possibly on the structure. It could also be on the walk path itself. Awesome. So, does that Henry does that answer question. Okay, so let's go to Adam to kick it off. Excellent. Thank you. And you have first off, thank you. So staff team and project design team. Really great to see this come back. I think this is a really great iteration of what you've brought to us a few years ago. It's been a long road for this project and I'm glad that road actually interesting. We're bridging areas. We're getting into it. This is a been a long process and I am really glad to see that there is movement on this, and really get to see that there's funding and that there is schedule involved as well. Great work on everyone's part. There's been a ton of work put into this. And I think it really shows. Very supportive of the single state. Cable structure. It's a beautiful design. I think it'll be a really amazing statement. Thank you. Thank you so much for the city of Santa Rosa for, you know, the present and the future of many forms of transportation. Thousands of people drive under it every day. Hopefully, many people will go across it every day. And it can be seen from all around from the surrounding neighborhoods and so is not just for the highway itself that is for the rest of the city. The bridges are connectors and one of the things that this is, this opportunity is to reconnect some of the disconnect that has happened to the halves of the city. And I think this is going to be a beautiful statement for that. And I think going with a light contemporary design is a really great direction to go with this. And so definitely supportive of the design as we've, as it has been brought to us now. As far as the public art connections. I, I see. I want to keep the bridge as as clean and as light as possible open, airy visually and safety wise and just as a user of this bridge it will be great to be on this bridge to be able to see all around you be floating in space. I've had the opportunity to to bike the, the new Bay Bridge number of times and one of the most wonderful things about that is that you are floating out over the bay, and you're floating up in the air it is open and and clear views. And I think having this type of structure that you have is really going to add to that, that the views of the, you know, the center as a plane. And having any adornment on the bridge itself will detract from the spare lines of what you're proposing. And I think, you know, any public art that could be proposed and incorporated, I'm certainly a proponent of public art. And I think that the, the, the best opportunities are at the landings and potentially underneath the structures themselves, the, the approaches underneath the approaches and at the landings. I think that any public art that we that is could be incorporated should be contemporary I think it should be collaboratively, communitively driven. I think that should be youth driven, I think that you shouldn't engage the communities that live around here around the these neighborhoods engage the JC. Gladier mentioned of the Art and Public Spaces Committee as well I know that they would be involved and any of this would be in great hands with them. And I would want to see, you know, art that is contemporary, but also does reference our history here and we're talking. There are many histories to Santa Rosa. We have got the past, you know, decades we've got the past century we've got indigenous communities, there are many histories to be referenced here. And so I want to see a wide lens given to any public art that could be incorporated here. It's a great educational opportunity. That can, you know, we can reference our history but we can also really reference the future as well. What this bridge also represents is an opportunity for the future with the emphasis on bike and pedestrians we are are, you know, a generator to to have a statement that is less car focused and human scale and referencing, you know, climate change and all the aspects that we need to be dealing with as a city and as a community. The bridge is a statement and a utilitarian piece of infrastructure. And it is a great opportunity for, for many, many things. Let's see. This is some specific, more specific rather than the larger ideas. The streetscapes I really want to see the attention being paid to the, the, the landing areas and how they really get into the city's infrastructure and into the city's transportation infrastructure. As Henry mentioned, you know, signage is going to be really key here. So we're going to have a bridge from those places that we're trying to get to, and then we're on the bridge of where you're going. And also having those connectors to and from the city's existing bike and pedestrian infrastructure safely. As we're emphasizing bikes and pedestrians. We really need to bump the priority for the design to those user groups. So they're going to interact with the streetscapes. Going to the landings themselves. I think that you're specifically on the Edwards side, your update from what you brought us a couple of years ago. This is a great solution. You've created kind of a kind of a mini Plaza mini nook that will serve as a way to slow people down. And you know, when you have these bridges and especially when you're on bikes, you can build up a pretty good head of steam coming down a safe area that is a landing spot. If you have those, which you previously proposed with multiple outlets. There's, you know, not much need to slow down necessarily and you're going out into the parking lot or into the street or on the sidewalk. The commenters brought the idea of the curb cuts being too small. I think that this is one way that you could really bump up the emphasis on that this is for bikers and pedestrians, large curb cuts, lights, I think in pavement lighting is going to be key to announce this as that there are going to be people. There's going to be walking here biking here is going to be parents of strollers. I, you know, when you know my son is seven years old now but when he was in preschool I live in the JC neighborhood and his preschool was over on the other side of Cottington and I liked much to his mother's sugar in underneath this deal. Over there was a hairy proposition. This would be a great thing for families and kids to use. My son is a seven year old now would love to bike on this bridge because he couldn't build up that head of steam. He loved biking on the Bay Bridge when we did that so I'm not yet another opportunity there. Let's see. I think that in terms of safety, your width of your bridges is great. On the JC side, I really think engaging with the JC community to see to really see their needs and to fit into every all the new things that are going on over there, specifically in this part of campus too is really going to be key. This is going to one of those moments in the project to be really nimble and working with them as well. I think key areas of communication open. Yeah, I just wanted also to highlight the one last comment, one of the public comments saying that this bridge should not just be a way to communicate to drivers, this should be a way to communicate to the city and to everyone on the neighborhoods and to all users. Very supportive of the project as proposed. And I think I hit all of the questions that I was supposed to correct Drew, I get the three. So yeah, a bunch of other things too. Great. A bunch of other things and the three, the three big second items there remain ones okay. And that will do it. Thanks very much for bringing this to us again, and I look forward to seeing this. Thanks, Grant. Yes, thank you. Sorry to interrupt. You know, board member Sharon's comments about art made me realize that I failed to mention something that if we go through the city's public art process. If, if the, if we were to go and install art at the landings which is outside of the state right of way, it's likely that we could deliver an art installation, you know concurrently with the project delivery timeline. An art installation is proposed on the main structure and within the right state right of way is likely Caltrans would need to be involved, which could potentially lead to delays in delivering the art structure or see the art. Installation, which could potentially be installed after the completion of construction. However, I would imagine that it would be. Everyone would like to see it all installed at one time so I just wanted to bring that to everyone's attention that there may be some delays if we were to install within the right state right away. And that's basically because that because Caltrans has their own process and they move at their own speed and so it is what it is kind of right. Yes, unfortunately, whether we like it or not it's kind of the way it is. And the city does have a pretty good or has a very good public outreach process. Caltrans process however is is much more robust, requiring multiple public outreach events, record records of that you know full submittal or full proposal upon submittal for application which takes quite a bit of time to be accepted as well so. And I think that that's another argument in favor for me of keeping the any potential artwork to the city size of things and to the landings and underneath the structures. So let's go to board member Wolski now for her comments. Thanks. So I'm super excited about this I've been reading out this project in the paper forever, and to have a dedicated way for people to go from east to west back and forth to places where I think a lot of people would really like to go I think it's a. So that's one of them. What is the alignment I really like that, and I think it makes sense. The other thing is I wanted to thank staff for pursuing and being awarded these very significant financial grants to speed along this process and to help with the funding. Super important. Um, let's see for the design. I really like this offset pile on I think the pile on the way it curves is just really pleasing to the eye very aesthetically pleasing. And I do think it's really light and airy visible and safe, which I think would encourage more people to use this over crossing. And let's see. The landings and I'm really happy with the revised landings that I saw that have been changed since, since the I think it was 2018 meeting I think they're a lot safer no one's shooting out into where people are exiting from a parking lot. I do like it was the base material by I think the Edwards Avenue, one that was the fractured rim material. Very much like that material I think it's, it adds a lot of texture and something about it I just really like so I appreciate that being added. Let's see. I'm wondering how signage or directions will be handled in a good way for the Elliott Avenue. Touchdown that seemed like there are a lot of arrows going on and maybe it will be needed out with curb cuts and things like that and I was happy to hear that the JC isn't planning on having any traffic in that area I think that will make it a lot safer. Public art, I absolutely agree with board members Sharon, I don't see having any art affixed to this bridge. If anything I can see it possibly in the landing areas maybe even incorporated into the wall. This, this is a very clean design so I don't think it needs much to be added to it. Those are my comments, thank you. We're going to go to board member Wicks now for his comments. Thank you Chairman Michael. Thank you Mr Grover in your design team I think you did an outstanding job I think I think you had a home run. I think it's particularly in regards to our request for you to push the design envelope and treat the bridges artwork. I think you brought back a masterful solution. I would commend you on that I think there's enough transparency in it to see the true beauty of the hillside, especially northbound looking at the, the shallow mountains and and it's a strong statement it's transparent but it's strong and it's artful in its nature I think it will be beautiful for the motors to travel by it. I think it will even perhaps capture enough attention to where somebody might want to come around. Take the exit. Come back and take a second look at it and maybe maybe walk across it. So, from that aspect I think there's an opportunity for the public art if that's a strong statement from the public and they want it at the landing elements of it, I could see that I appreciate the simplicity and the beauty as it was presented to us tonight. I wish we'd seen some alternative designs to artwork in those areas or maybe in the pathway of the bridge but I have I'm struggling to constructively give any comment about public art and adding to beyond what we've seen tonight. Because I think the bridge as it stands is is the public art that is being added to the city of Santa Rosa. I love, I love the non glare, some specific things I think you hit real well on I love the non glare lighting, both under, you know, particular as you go across the bridge. I know walking along the waterfront in San Francisco and how they've changed some of the lighting and it's low level keeps you safe and keeps you from stumbling as you're walking but but keeps you being able to see the distant views of the bay the bay bridge. I like the subtle separation from the walk in the bike path. Very, very, very nifty the landscaping selections I like I like the meandering sidewalk I think it adds a bigger buffering landscape zone to the street. I love that meandering. It's a subtle difference but it's, it's just so much better than a straight line. The architectural character. I would, I would love to see you just stretch on the on the design of bringing down that 10 foot high missile missile railing anti missile barrier and just bring it down to what I call zero which is really the 42 inch cargo. So, did I did I hit on all three grew. You did. Any other general comments and rear. I think I'm good it's it's hard to over of not go on and on about how much I like it, but I, I, you know, looking back at the at the 20, 2010 solution which had a I guess it was the winning design as a charrette. It didn't, it, it didn't even have artwork on it. It had old redwood highway and script across it, which kind of remind me of the where I grew up in Bakersfield and Bakersfield in had a bridgeway that connected the hotel on the one side of 99 to the other side of 99. And it was arched, and that was it's it's kind of artful look but it just said Bakersfield across it. And this, the other, the one in the design compass charrette from 2010 had had old redwood high or not old just had redwood highway on it, which to me is not really art. And I think, I think the solution before us tonight is more of an art piece. And I'll leave it at that. Senator John, your board member McHugh, your comments. Thank you. I absolutely love the design. And I like it. It's simplicity. I like it's elegance. I, I like the landings the way the way the landings have been designed. And, and I appreciate the time and thought that you put into your design. I don't particularly want any additional art on the bridge simply because I think that would be a distraction. It's it's a piece of art in and of itself. And therefore I just like to leave it the way it is. And so that would be that would be my preference that it hit on all three that I needed to hit on. You did John perfect. Thank you. I'm done. So thanks so much. So, I mean, I could say about the same thing as everybody else has. I think the offset pile on solution is clean. I completely 100 and 1000% agree with Henry on the, the missile proof fencing needs to more elegantly end. I think I do have a couple of comments that I didn't hear from anybody else. I like the. I think the Edwards touchdown is fairly well thought out and the fact that it's connecting to a pedestrian crosswalk and it's, you're not flying down and running across a drive aisle. I think there's some beauty to that and. But I think the Elliott intersection is just like not at all thought out and I don't mean that in a mean way I just mean that there's so many variables that that the design team, I think is still in flux that they can't land on anything. I don't necessarily want to see the bridge again. I think the bridge is great. I do want to think I think it'd be nice to see the Elliott landing and landscaping, perhaps one more time here at design review. Just because there's so much in flux there and, and what's happening on the west side is is clean, elegant, straightforward to the point because there's very much a lot of all those pieces of the puzzler they're already. Right. Dix doesn't go anywhere the patello co or patlico whatever it is the credit union that's right there. I'm likely not going anywhere right. So I would maybe like to see the Elliott landing. So, yeah, one more time just once the JC settles on what they're working on and the city settles on potentially closing down Elliott etc etc. So I do think that needs a little bit more time but other than the bridge coming all the way down I think where the bridge ends. I don't need to see the bridge it's just that landing. And I'm in agreement with everybody else about the art I don't think we need art on the bridge itself. I do like the prospect of incorporating art into the two landings in some fashion to create a sense of place in those two. And I was thinking about one thing but I don't know how I given grants comments about the Caltrans element I don't know how feasible this is but I thought it was, I don't know it's a little kitschy, but it could be fun. I think that's character on the bridge like utilizing either the bike lane or the pathway somehow, you know, riding a bike like a statue of a penis I thought that'd be kind of fun and fun and creative and unique and you could, it's kind of gives you a double take is you're driving by potentially or, and folks may take a picture of it when they utilize the bridge. So but with the Caltrans element I think that that complicates that pretty significantly. I did have one question that came up. And you guys may not know the answer to this, but in terms of the homelessness component under bridges does, and you can just absolutely say you have no idea. So that on the Edward side the kind of meandering path with the different varied size planting boxes with rocks and all the other elements does something like that deter homelessness more than say a straight pathway with planting on one side. That's a good question. I'm going to ask Steven to chime in here if he knows the answer to that. I think decent light levels is very important, and a very uneven, unapproachable surface, large, spiky succulents do the trick. So we have other projects where we've had this kind of condition where we have planting areas under the structure and those have been the kinds of treatments that have been successful over the years. Cool. Thank you for that. One thing to that drew also started as somebody thinks about exterior spaces landscapes. The having having that meander. One of the things I like about you know it's efficient to have the straight shot but the meander, it activates both sides of the bridge underneath both the shady side and the light side and so you're bringing both sides there. So I think it's it's a it's kind of a slide design touch as well to bring people everywhere on the site there. So, by the way, I was thinking that as well. By the way, I think we calculated that it's about 2% longer. All right, well there you go. And then I may be the alone in this. I'm not in love with the fractured rib texture that for some reason to me that screams like underpass in Texas because I used to live in Texas and there's a lot of big underpasses in Texas with fractured rib. So I'm not in love with it but that's just my own personal bias I think if you think it's going to be an attorney to graffiti and that you can put some creeping vines and stuff on it then maybe it's not an issue. But that's my own kind of it just feels really industrial to me, kind of brutal, not that brutalism isn't an amazing thing but in this instance it doesn't match the elegance of the bridge and so maybe there's a solution or maybe this isn't solution. But let me just go. Okay, cable state design I believe we've all confirmed that we've all confirmed the design direction for the bridge, the approaches in the landings and we've provided input on public art, if any. So with that, just one more pass. Anybody have any additional comments on the bridge design landings plantings lighting, etc. Yeah, go ahead. Well, yeah, Drew you're asking for to see the landings again I mean is that a possibility for us to see that and would that add any, you know, it's will be kind of delays there is that's a question for staff. Absolutely a possibility. I think that Joe I will made a good point that we are still. We've been actively working with the JC but they are still trying to finalize some of the last details and that landing area as well so we have been challenged to finalize our side to. I think when exactly we could come back to the design review board, Natalie and and Steven could probably speak a little bit better to but I'm thinking maybe 60% design. And so then we can incorporate comments at the 90% but Natalie and and or Steven feel free to add to that if you'd like. I would just say probably a little bit earlier in the process by the time we're at 65 were pretty much gone. I would confer grant to come up with a better idea of exactly. Okay, that sounds good Steven thanks and I guess the only other question is returning to the design review board. Do you think that that would delay delivery of the design. Was that question for me. Yeah, or or not Alina. I almost feel like we could probably squeeze it in. At some point where, you know, getting on the agenda could be concurrent with finalizing that that area. So potentially we kept our discussion very focused to something we've a tendency to be unfocused. So, I was going to say as long as we're focused on the ones that we still have that we're not really done with that we haven't really fully resolved. And in the parts that we feel all gone, we can really dig into, then it shouldn't slow down our process. And I'm, I'm assuming this is this is an assumption but we want to have those comments with made for those areas within this city right away not Cal Trans right away. Because it'll be much harder to incorporate changes to work that's been done in Cal Trans right away and meet the schedule. Yeah, I don't think I don't think we're talking about having coming back with anything. I think we all understand the challenges with the Cal Trans component. I think what we're all talking about is just once you get certain distance down the road. Once the JC has settled on some things. And it probably makes a lot of sense just to have a quick touch point with us and just present just present the land, you know the landings as they sit as everything's kind of move forward and like not even talk about the bridge kind of thing. Does that feel comfortable to the board, pretty much, just to talk about those pieces. Yeah, and then, whether it's 25% 50% you know CDs where wherever it works best for your team I think will work for us. I think we should be able to accommodate that. Henry had another thought. Yeah, that was where I was originally going to go before board member Sharon got my question kind of asked for me but I was, I wouldn't. I wish wouldn't want to slow down the process but I thought I agree with you drew that if it comes back. It's really just focused on that we're not talking about the bridge again. You know, if, if, if, if by chance we had the railing kind of could peak at that, that'd be fun, but not a requirement and and if there was public art that was being proposed on those landings just a quick, a quickie on that public art just. But I don't think we even really need to chime in on that we've got a we've got a art group on on staff at the city that that can review that so just kind of wanted to say I'm in agreement of wanting to see it out of some curiosity and and like you said that Elliot is of all the graphics that was the most confusing and it was like, there's there's too much going on here there's looks like an accident waiting to happen someday so anyway. That's it. Cool. Any other comments from the group. Oh, you know what I did just realize something we did have a public comment about a traffic intersection or something at Edwards but I think grant pretty much addressed that there's something in the works for Edwards and and so it'll really depend on what the traffic engineers come up with I think on that side does everybody agree with that I think we got that question answered in terms of safety. And it and it appears that the crosswalk is proposed so if a crosswalks proposed likely some sort of signaling system would would be included in that I would imagine giving the given the kind of the potential for flow off the bridge and across the bridge. So with. So I think that's it. Yeah, everybody. Good. Okay. So, typically what we do then is applicant team we ask if you guys have any other questions or comments for the board based on what you heard from us. If anything was completely infeasible. Difficult or if everything seemed pretty doable in terms of potential design changes or adjustments. Do you guys have any final comments for us or complaints. I personally don't have any comments or any complaints. I just want to thank the board for taking the time to know really look at this, you know, in the detailed and broad level and really appreciate all these comments I think they're all doable and look forward to working with the JC to finalize that East landing and bringing it back to you for one final look. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I would like to thank the board for all their thoughtful comments and attention to detail. It's really appreciated and it's truly helpful in the design part. I couldn't set it better. Thank you very much. Thank you. I think that's a great project that's unique and interesting and I think we as a board all agree that this is something that is going to be unique and special for Santa Rosa and it's definitely going to connect. We connect our city. I certainly I pulled up an aerial the other day as I was looking through everything and I, it was, I was dumbstruck all of a sudden because I forgot how close. It actually is when you when you introduce a pedestrian slash bike bridge, because I, we live in the junior college area and I went oh wow I could just like go down here and walk across and go to target and then walk home. Wow, that's mind boggling in a way. Because now it's a much more difficult proposition, right. So I think more solutions like this that connect the city. And make alternative modes of transportation. A priority, I think are going to make Santa Rosa place to move and move and be for the future. So that being said, that ends concludes item 9.1, and we will move to item 10, which is adjournment. And so everybody have a great Friday and the rest of your weekend. And I believe we do not have a DRB meeting on November 18. Is that correct Amy. Anything else, Amy. That's it and we'll see you in December. Thank you for your comments tonight. All right, thanks everybody. Have a good day. We're adjourned.