 Hey guys Hi, everyone. Um, first of all, I hope this is lined up and Making sure it's all working, but I'm basically we are trying something new today this week we're gonna do a little bit of an experiment and I do apologize for the crude setup. I know this is not ideal. We don't really have We don't really have the ideal setup yet for live streaming So before we do that and before we invest that we want to experiment and See who would be interested in this and just kind of see how a live discussion play out because our goal again with this channel is to present topics research topics bring different ideas and You know hear your feedback and discuss with everyone here so let's give a few minutes for everyone to come in and I thought they might be interesting to kind of talk about the mcdojo episode because Everyone seems to enjoy revisiting it and I like the idea of kind of Exploring topics more often more depth because there's only so much we can talk about one video in one episode and of course We can break it up to multiple episodes, but I do like the interaction feedback part So first of all, let me ask. Can you guys hear me? Okay? You know, I know that's improved. I do apologize for the crude setup It's a little bit more but just the experiment. So I welcome you all here Let's just give a few minutes for people to come in then we can start talking about it Oh, let's hear one in here man. Hey guys, how's it going? So So I figure maybe we'll spend maybe 30 maybe 40 minutes talking about the mcdojo episode from last week We revisited it because honestly when I did the first cut It was about a 40 to 50 minute episode that I had to cut down and I'm like wow There's so much stuff here. We can talk about so much content so much meet and get into But I don't want to just throw out an hour video each time So I figured we can talk about a lot of those discussions here So all right, so just hope everyone's doing good today so far. I'm Love you so working from home Yeah, we're so we're still kind of adapting that we don't have our setups kind of you know Our schedule has been all over the place We had topics that we're working on and with the with the agenda and with the quarantine everything So it's it's we're kind of going on the fly. We don't want to miss any weeks We still want to deliver content But it's been a little bit of a challenge on a technical side because we don't have all our gear one place to run out at our normal setup So Okay, seems like there's a good amount here. So let's get started So basically we did that topic the mcdojo topic way back when we first started the channel back in 2018 Or at least the art of one dojo side of the channel And we got a lot of great a lot of great feedback even today You know that that video still gets a lot of traffic and discussion Which is why we went back to it because there's a lot of ideas people brought up and there's a lot of There's a lot of um exceptions to the rules when it comes to this because this list is not absolute I mean, you cannot just go down the checklist and say up one two three. That's cool to mcdojo I mean even if you have a school that hits every single thing on the list Doesn't necessarily mean it's a mcdojo Pretty much probably is but again, there's always exceptions to the rule so Every martial arts comes to the fads. Okay, a lot of mcdojo's pop up There are a lot of fads. Yeah, I mean that that isn't the fortune truth, but When it comes to the fads, I think it's a positive and negative thing at the same time But because of an art becomes a fad It's bad because you know, it becomes watered down and it becomes streamlined and like It becomes a bunch of mcdojo's pop up all over the place, but at the same time That's how arts can get integrated So that's where the challenge comes into Designing what's a good version of the art and what's the bad version of the art? You know, there's a lot of arts kempo tai kway doh, especially, you know Both those two I see all the time there's fantastic schools for each and there's very bad schools for each I can't tell you how many bad kempo schools I've seen but I've all seen equally as many good ones But it's hard to determine which one is which so yes, I agree with you a lot of arts when they become fads They kind of explode and you get a doger that pops up on every corner Of course, you're gonna have a high percentage of that that is not Going to be a very good quality art So this that's why we want to talk about this and go through these ideas so that you can help determine If it's, you know, if the school's worth your time or not And you got a lot of comments on this previous video last week And there's a few things I want to bring up one of our viewers I don't know if you're here right now, but rental karate left a comment today Regarding my comment on If the instructor won't tell you what the art is or they say it's just karate And they brought up a very good point because I made the comment in the video that if the school won't tell you What art it is they say it's karate and you ask well, what type of karate like oh, it's just karate That's a red flag They brought up a good point that uh, jesse enkamp the karate nerd did an episode on his family art with his art Was and he says he just calls it art karate now I want to address that because that was a perfect example to use because yes, he just calls it karate But however, he also kind of illustrated my point. What did jesse do? He said, oh, we just call my art karate But he's also said that people ask him all the time when he studies and what he teaches So then he broke it down He went through his family lineage his family history his dojo his training the mixture the elements and put it together He presented his art. He presented his school So what made him an exception to that rule is he was transparent So yes, it's easier for him to say. Oh, it's just karate because it's a mixture and it's easy to say It's picture this and this and this and this and this The information is there. He's not hiding it. He's open about it But if you go to a school where the instructor says, you know, we teach Muay Thai We teach MMA and we teach karate and you ask what kind of karate and they can't tell you or they won't tell you There's a possibility that one they don't even know themselves or two. It's just such a hodgepodge is just Minimal elements of it in there. So and that a lot of it is basing The judge not the judgment but the bot you have to read the instructor to you because everybody presents themselves differently so You to say, you know of instructors kind of hiding I really really meant more of someone who's hiding the background and being secretive about the background So not so much as oh, it's just karate, but there's a mixture of arts But like I said Jesse went into a full depth explanation as to why and that's what makes him the exception He's absolutely not a mcdojo. He believes in his art. He loves it. It's his family tradition And you know, he trained old school and he presents it very well so That's why I want to do these discussions because there's so many micro micro distinctions that you can make And that's why this list is so fluid because it's not a checklist It's not a oh you scored a or c minus whatever in your this or your that it all comes down to judgment I mean, technically you can have a mcdojo hit nothing on the list and still be mcdojo It's all on their priority if they prioritize money over the quality of what they teach that defines mcdojo So What's happening what would describe an online mcdojo? That's an excellent question Unlike mcdojo is still kind of the same thing now the online martial arts Untorn I'm on the fence with those programs because I do believe they offer a lot or they can offer a lot But you have to understand what those limits are And whether or not you want to determine that a mcdojo again comes down to are they nickel and diamond you? Are they just you know, are they siphoning off your credit card is all they want money or they actually are they actually giving you a legitimate program or at least something that you can draw something from And online is harder to determine because you you can't see it in person And you don't usually get the talking instructor in person So there's a lot of disconnect there. So you do have to be careful and there's a lot of research and I had a lot of people ask me about the online stuff a lot lately too, especially in connection with this topic So this might be another one to come back to revisit you because we did a video online martial arts So I'm kind of playing around with experimenting with them myself. So this could be another revisited topic, but Yes, uh online martial arts could absolutely be a mcdojo And it comes down to recognizing the signs and it's a little bit harder But sometimes it's not sometimes you come across the site. You're like, oh, okay. Wow. All right it's transparent, but sometimes it's not and Especially with that disconnect you don't always know if you're getting the lineage You think you're getting or even the art you think it is. So there's a lot of research there I'm going to kind of put that on the back burner because I think that would be a good follow-up topic for its own live discussion So these are great questions Jen's honestly seem to be a good general rule that underlines all the criteria and not necessarily Yeah, I mean you like said, you're gonna have to be able to read the sensei and read the instructor and run Oh and read the school You can I mean if there's something wrong there, you can usually feel it but not always I mean my first instructor was extremely charismatic and he could sell you anything and when I first started training it was like my role model and You know, he was smooth and he was very well spoken and he laid out the instruction and the class schedule and everything was great But when I started to work for him teach for him Behind the scenes when the classes were over. He was a little bit of a different person He was a little bit more snarky and he had a little bit of a darker side to him that I didn't like over time and You can't always tell because some some people are really really good at putting the mask on Which is why we do a list like this because that if you have an inkling that something might be wrong Well, that's when that's when you take a step back and you look at the whole school Is a big picture to see if things aren't lining up quite right sometimes It's just the way a person comes across other times. There might be something to it So I don't want to bring something else so I want to talk about contracts a lot of people In the first video said oh just because the contract was in place doesn't mean it's a big dojo And that's absolutely true A lot of schools will have contracts and it's not uncommon to find you know a year-long contract or even a two-year long contract And like so my school is with you so many changes. So I kind of experienced a little bit of everything You know, I've I've been in the yearly long contract. I've been a month-to-month contract I've even done Traded classes for for trade because I do video production and I've done everything across the board So just because there's a contract in place that does not mean it's a mcdojo Well becomes suspicious is when they Try to force you to sign it before even taking a trial class Or they want you to like they push it hard that they make it a hard sell And they want you to pay it all up front and then they bind you to it I know contract is binding But you can sometimes tell a prior priority of a school if they keep holding that contract over your head So if you go for a couple months or and you're like, ah, this isn't quite for me And they give you a really really hard time to get out of it A legitimate school someone who really cares about the art is not going to want to force somebody to keep coming in If they don't if they're not getting what they want out of the art, but that gets you to a little bit of a trickier Tricky grounds because just the presence of a contract doesn't mean does not mean the mcdojo Yeah Exactly for contracts contracts are okay. It's just again It's one of those things where you have to step back and take it into context with everything else If it's just a long-term contract, but everything else seems on the up and up And it's probably not really a problem or a concern but if they're trying to force a long-term contract But you also have to buy 20 shirts and you also have to buy the dvc series and You know there's there's 40 people 50 people in your class and you're starting to wonder Okay, and they're not telling you the background. That's when you're like, all right That's this is starting to get a little things aren't lining up. It's not looking you know legitimate And again, it all comes down to judgment is and there's so many schools that dance the line Because the truth of the matter is it costs money to run a school There is an expense and people ask me all the time You know all went up in my school, you know, what's involved in it so much more There's so much more involved training in school than just knowing your art and getting your black belt And it's even a lot more than just knowing how to teach you have to You have to have a good strong business sense too And that's where I see a lot of schools fail is they get their black belt Maybe they have a third or fourth degree black belt and they go open up their school They make get a good location. They dump a bunch of money into it and then Maybe one person comes in just because you open your doors doesn't mean people start flooding in It takes work to bring people into your school It takes marketing. It takes advertising. It takes being out there face to face And then once you start building the core group the word of mouth kicks in So there's a hefty investment to open it up your own school And we do have on patreon my instructor put together A two-hour video seminar on how to open up your own school or run the children's program So that is available on our patreon page if you guys are interested he goes into a lot of great detail Only because there's so much there's so much that goes into it and honestly If you're going to open up your first school My best recommendation is instead of going out and dropping a ton of money on the retail space or Or trying to get this big dojo start small Maybe you train or teach somebody else's school or a community center or at a park start small kind of get your feet wet Learn the operation of running the school because it's more than just showing up teaching class and leaving There is a structure to it. It's a business structure Whether you're doing it for profit or for not it's still a business structure and it's very very tough to maintain Marsh art schools are one of the hardest businesses to keep open Their doors revolve open and shut so fast, especially like we're you know, we're in the south florida area We see them come up all the time. They pop up and they drop off. It's it's it's insane how fast they are There's a mcdojo come with No, listen, I don't care about my profiling So there's a mcdojo come with a double mac fries and cheese on it with milkshake If they don't leave then that school's not worth it. You know, if you're signing up, you want the full You want the full supersize meal, man No touch knockouts equals mcdojo. I'm good. I'm going to agree with that only because Like I said, I try to be objective on this site, but that's a topic. I'm not going to be objective about No touch knockouts of the school is teaching that It's theater. It's dramatic theater. It's not a martial art. It's not combat. It's not self-defense Because whenever it's proven to not work the excuse is always oh, well your head's not in the right space Or oh, you can counteract or go you can do this if it's that easy for it to not work And it's not worth doing bottom lines. It's it's it's it's hypnosis. It's cult mentality. It's It's a hive mind thing and it's just it's theatrics. So I'm not going to maintain no touch knockouts. Yes I will agree no touch knockouts. It's definitely a warning sign for school might not necessarily be a mcdojo But it probably is but I do recommend leaving school for that Christopher lez. What about belt testing fees? excellent question and Again, not one of those definitive answers, but belt testing fees. I think are okay provided a few conditions one If it depends what you're getting from it and how much it is a regular belt testing fee if it's just a little bit for a month like Okay, let me go back to my first school when I was when I was learning going up to the ranks We had a small belt testing fee was about 25 dollars And it wasn't if we tested it was if we actually passed because we had monthly tests So we would you know, it would take us three four five months Whatever it depends on what belt you are to learn your material and you would test in increments And once you got to your last increment you actually got to go for the tests or go for the belt If you achieved it if you passed that test and you got the belt And yes, there was a small fee. It was like 20 bucks at 25 dollars Which pretty much covered the cost of the belt and some schools gave out certificates, but not all So I'm okay. I think that's okay. Especially when it comes to black belt tests Sometimes you'll see a hundred dollars two hundred dollar tests Again depends on what you get back my tests my first and second degree tests I believe are about two two fifty, but we got a whole uniform with it We got a very nice belt with a name printed on it. We got swords the second time I got like a buck knife with it So there's value that came back to and the certificate nicely printed certificate All that together is about that much if the school's transferring you a thousand two thousand dollars Then and you're just showing up and you're getting the belt then you can question That's kind of more of a business model But if it's one of those tests where you have to travel to and it's a big event Maybe that helps offset costs So you have to you have to balance the cost of the test versus what you're getting out of it Now if you're forced to pay for every single solitary test And they're going to test you constantly and that might become suspicious Especially with the martial arts online programs You can see a lot of that That they will keep testing you they'll keep charging you for every test every test and it's it's hard because You may or like depends on what you're getting back from it the online Structures different sometimes online martial arts They'll give you the material for free or you sign up for a small amount And they pay you large amounts per test or you pay in a giant bulk fee up front for the whole curriculum And they'll give you smaller fees per test if they charge you a whole bulk for the curriculum and they charge you hundreds of dollars for each test That's kind of fishy But I mean, yeah, it's belt testing fees is Is a good is a good topic good good question Yeah, $25 every three months. That's not bad. That really isn't bad I know Kemple masters who charge about $500 to form One form of five techniques. Yeah, that's honestly kind of on the higher end But again, yeah, of the three if you're getting charging $500 for a basic test. That's that's too much 500 I even think it's kind of a lot for a black belt test unless you're getting a trip out of it or something or just a It's a big expense. It's a big event like at a camp or something but um, I think I think belt test fees are reasonable As long as you're getting something back from it because there is a cost like I said I've seen it from the running the school point of view. There's a cost to get any things So to cover that, I don't think that's a problem now um One thing too, I did like is the last couple videos with the mcdojo's is there's a lot of people asking What does this make me mcdojo? Was this making mcdojo? I saw several people Looking on lists and comparing their own schools to it going. Okay, good. I'm glad I don't do any of these And I saw a lot of people going. Oh, what a relief. I don't match this list I like that because that showed me that we have viewers who run schools that care about the school That they cared enough that they actually broke down their own school and compared to this list to make sure they didn't follow that criteria I've got respect for that I've got respect for that because that means you you're trying to bring hold yourself up to standards So I was really happy to see several of you do that and compare your own schools to see where you fell on it and hopefully Maybe a point is something out if there's anyone out there who saw that And decided they want to make a change great as long as it's making a change if you want Even to make your school better and you're making decisions to improve the quality of your training and your material and what your students get I think that's absolutely fantastic I don't care if you're a big chain school on the corner of the biggest richest shopping center It all comes down to The quality of what you teach A lot of people said if you're you know, if you're in a big, you know Shopping plaza with big picture windows that you're mcdojo. No that does not make it a mcdojo It's again, it's you have to go inside and break down the curriculum and you have to break down What the presenting to you it all comes down to the quality of what you're getting Where is their priority? Is their priority charging you or is their priority teaching you and there's a very big difference between the two What are my thoughts on having to buy an association membership? interesting question um I think for the most part it's okay because a lot of schools That's where you get a lot of your accreditation And I don't mind that so much because especially if it's a large organization like you know Shodokan and kiyokushin and taekwondo and even jujitsu and judo, they'll have large Governing bodies and organizations and as long as the fees aren't ridiculous You know if it's you know, $60 a year $100 a year That's not so bad because now you're part of a group and it actually legitimizes you to the point where I don't think And say it legitimizes your training But that way if you go to a tournament or you go to another school in the country or another school out of the country You carry that recognition with you. It's kind of like You're almost like family So it's it cuts a lot of their tape sometimes so unless they're charging you hundreds or thousands of dollars a year I don't think association fees are bad And our schools we had association fees, but they were optional So you could you know, you just paid for tuition just for your classes But they had they were part of a bigger group So if you wanted that you could opt in and of course you got your patch And then you've got to attend the events that they held so that was more of a separate thing And it was never pushed it was never forced on us. So that was always optional Even the schools I train at now it's it's optional. So I'm fine with these association fees again You got to balance what you're getting And the school of Steve McDojo there in Stremell and that means they became martial artists and make some good friends Yeah, exactly carbon valley. You don't know. I mean you can't just judge a school You can't judge a book by its cover. You have to walk in Talk to them see how they run see how they present themselves There's a lot you can tell on the first impression and it doesn't mean it's you know It's locked in stone because you know first impressions can be fluid But you have to interact with it. You have to take some time to digest it I don't ever recommend if you're going to do a martial art Just go run to the first school you see and sign up. You got to do your homework. Unfortunately, it's not easy You have to do your research because it's not something you can just Pick up just like that, you know, look at a bunch of schools Even if the first one you like is fantastic and you love it Go look at a couple other ones just to make sure because you might there might be some aspects You weren't unaware of unless you look around Okay, thank you for that. They train your future. Let's share $300 Okay, that's that's not bad. I mean you're talking about tuition for class For three months, that's that's not bad Thoughts on head instructors who don't give their black belts future instructors say power and change things or leading classes or marketing Oh excellent question That's a tough one almost a topic in itself Thoughts on head instructors who don't give their black belts or future instructors any say or power Changing things or leading class or marketing. Okay in terms of changing things if it's an up and coming Instructor or someone who's not quite at that level yet or a new black belt They shouldn't really be changing things just yet. That's too early before you change a system You change the way something is taught you need to be at it for a long time I'm going to river back to um one of my video production instructors Told us something interesting like he goes there's rules to filmmaking and there's solid rules You know certain shots of formations and compositions and you don't break those rules unless you have a reason He said you never break a rule until you understand the rule and then you can break it So you have to have a good reason and I kind of think it's the same thing for teaching Don't go change the material don't go changing the way something is taught until you really understand why it's taught that way And then you can bring your perspective into it but Yeah, as far as not letting them I saw this first hand again my first instructor When he started taking on assistant instructors, we had one in particular who was really good And my instructor kind of started to disappear into the back room and the assistant took over classes But he taught fantastically, but he did exactly that He won't let him make the material on his own and he actually wasn't promoting him on purpose Because once he got black belt, he was supposed to be able to be paid more So there was a lot of delay to test delay to test delay to test and eventually The the assistant left and made his own school And so yeah, it's kind of like Again, look at the dynamic if you have a head instructor who is stifling or really holding back any potential instructors and not letting them put their input in That might be a problem But just understand that new instructors or unbecoming instructors shouldn't really have a whole lot of say yet or power at the beginning It's really how the treatment if the instructor listens to their point of view and then makes decisions and that's a little bit of a different story but Yeah, there's I do think an up-and-coming instructor should have limited say in terms of how the school was run until they've had some significant time running it first What do you think about instructors that create through a school by combining three or more different arts? I'm actually fine with that as long as the training in each art is sufficient You know if a guy teaches shodokan and go takes a one week course and Presenting jiu-jitsu and it starts off from b to j then that's a problem And usually you can tell that that person has that skill or not just even by the way they teach But if that person has legitimately trained in different arts and wants to bring it together, I think that's fine. That's kind of A lot of arts get created that way and that's how kajugaboba got created And I'm a big proponent of cross training and I think that falls into that. So I'm actually fine with that I think that's a good idea to mix There's sometimes this mentality of staying pure blood and not changing the bloodline or it's I don't like any of that. I mean, I do respect that I love traditional arts and I love the old ways and cultures But as far as training goes and making yourself better I think listening to a bunch of ideas and combining ideas is the best way to go As long as you're understanding those ideas and you're not just getting a little Like it's like a little seminar and you're going to change your whole course to that If it's good understanding of what you're combining and I think that's that's a strength not a weakness Oh Kotaro, I would love to go to japan. That's definitely We've got a lot of goals of the channel So I would love to travel to japan just a little bit out of my means right now But that's a fantastic idea Do I have any experience in tungsten though? No, I don't not personally I do know a lot of people who train in tungsten though, so I've seen it firsthand But I have not taken a tungsten class at least not yet What do I think about instructors who don't hide the training lineage but actually lie about it? Corey, I think that's actually worse An instructor who's being deceptive like that Don't if they're lying to you about that then what else are they being honest about because If they're actually making up their background I find that worse than them hiding their backgrounds because that means they're deceitful to begin with so I wouldn't trust that and I understand not wanting to share your background sometimes because again I hate to keep bringing it up But my first instructor didn't turn out to be the person we thought he was and my second instructor had a big Fallen out with everyone in the area So for a while when I was training on my own people asked me. Oh, what did you train with I was kind of like You know, I didn't it wasn't information I volunteered for a while because I was I was afraid to be judged by it Thankfully the people I was training with they they understood that was that person and not my own person They judged me on that so hiding your background Is kind of a bit of a fuzzy line But in terms of lying about it, I think you're getting off on the wrong foot with that I I don't think I would necessarily trust they uh I don't think I would necessarily trust an instructor who's lying about the background I don't know if it's especially with lightning obvious What do you think about the ones that call themselves a master and only 30 years old? Generally speaking I don't like it But you do have to look at the art because sometimes it comes down to the terminology The word master is different in every art. For example in thong sudo Master ranks are early earlier We're in kempo. You don't get the rank of master until eighth degree And then you associate master the master and senior master It really depends on the art, but generally I don't think If the title master applies to like a third degree or fourth degree again depending on the art Not such a big deal But if that rank is equivalent to a seventh eighth ninth degree black belt and they're only 25 30 years old I personally think that's too soon I don't know if that's enough time to really truly master an art to the point where you could You're like an expert. I mean an ultimate expert on it to be a master to teach other high-end instructors I would be worried about that again, not necessarily a sign of mcdojo on its own But I would be worried about that at least enough to do a little bit more research and homework on it Master's fourth degree in above so this is also saying so that's when art work The word master is the terminology is used earlier for some other arts is used later. So that's that's a big part of the context What do you think of misleading mma schools? You know and not mma or the big four Um, that kind of goes back into schools that are mixing if they're calling themselves mma You know, they just need to be transparent about what they teach if they're not mma, you know such a General blanket term it just means mixed martial arts So but when you think of mma these days the sport mma you think of moitai boxing You know, presenting to just your judo a little bit of wrestling sometimes karate That's the typical if they're doing a mix of other arts It's kung fu and a keto in the wrestling if it's a different mix as long as they're upfront and transparent about it I think that's fine and they can call themselves mma and this does nothing wrong with that I'm a big I'm a big proponent on transparency Now that doesn't mean you should expect the instructor to spill all their history or everything that they know Because technically they're not obligated to do that. You know, you you still have to you know earn some respect But if they're hiding stuff from you if they're purposely being deceptive, that's when it becomes a problem Don't expect them to and don't be entitled to feel like you you're owed every detail about the history right up front You know, you might have to do some homework on your own But it's it comes down to if they're lying to you versus trying to hide their background. That's what's the problem So I want to ask you guys something real quick. Oh, how do I feel about instructors who self rank? I don't like it because Oh, yes, that's kind of a loaded question too Promoting yourself to 10th degree I think is a hard call the only way I see that I'm kind of more at peace with that is if it is someone who has trained their whole life 30 40 years And they have taken what they know and they've blended with what they know and they create something new And they continue to develop that and they become an expert that in their own niche And then yeah, then technically they're the grandmaster of the system And I think that's fine to eventually be a 10th degree because who else is going to rank you at that point But you have to really have this level of proficiency If you're just someone who's like, oh, you know, I feel like I know this I'm just an award myself rank Then nothing's happening from doing that. But you know, I don't think that really says it I mean, I think it says a lot about where their priorities are giving yourself rank Shows where their attention is at like if your focus is on the rank Is that really You know the quality to your art As I said, unless you're making your own martial art And you're coming the grandmaster of a legitimate art that you're spending your lifetime putting together I generally shy away from anyone who just gives themselves rank now a lot of times in systems You know, you can't have anyone above you to promote yourself to 10th degree And a lot of times it's done by committee So like if it is part of an association a lot of times they will get together So, you know what you've you've demonstrated this type of leadership you put this type of commitment We're going to vote to put you up to 10th degree That's a lot more legitimate in my opinion because you're in that leadership role Once your 10th degree you are the father or mother figure of that art you are You know, you are the leader. So if you if you can assume that role then fine So I want to ask you guys something to a lot of people brought this up Uh, the school has camouflage belts. Is that a big dojo automatically or not? Or not just camouflage but any sort of sort of a gimmick belt Whether it be a gray belt or or a multi-color belt or a rainbow belt or whatever any gimmick builds like that as a camel belt Jotaro, how does your school use the camel belt? Like in what application? A lot of you in the U.S. many arts have lost the kind of respect to the public I think a lot of schools have lost a lot of arts have lost respect to the public Only because of mcdojos and they seem to pop up Something mentioned earlier about, you know, when arts become a fad they they spread everywhere and a lot of mcdojos pop up That does hurt the art. Absolutely. Um, and I think that's like that gives us more homework to go through it and weed out The good ones from the bad ones and that's why we do topics like this to give ourselves the ammunition to look for that See it's good for your kids. Okay In tungsten we have tags wipe out kneel tag, you know, this is a camel belt No, a camel belt like that camouflage, you know, they get like the military camel pod I bring that up because a lot of people comment tonight. They're like, oh if your school's got camouflage belts, it's mcdojo I would say if the camouflage belt is an actual rank that's suspect It shouldn't be a rank Using it for kids. I think it's totally fine We had a program that might not where I was teaching just recently But my last instructor actually I like the way he used he had a camouflage belt What he did was that was for the student of the week So every week whichever student had the best improvement or the best attitude change or the best development or took a leadership role They were picked to be student of the week and they got to wear that camouflage belt for the following week And they were the assistant, you know, they got to help out They got to pick out the warm-ups. They got to help the class. They got to help walk around So they got a little taste of the leadership role And at the end of the week, they would help my instructor pick out the next kid See who was the best group or who made the most progress and then they passed off the belt to the other kid I think that is great. I mean, I think that's a perfect use for a gimmick belt like that because it's confidence builder It's used. It's more of a teaching tool. It's not a rank a school that uses a camouflage belt as a rank I would question that would I would look very hard at it because it's that's really weird What about art that will only teach adults 18 or plus? That's fine, too. That's absolutely fine That comes down to the instructor and what you want to teach Teaching children is very different teaching adults. I've done both And with a children's program, you have to understand depending on the age group There's this limit to what they can retain or what they can perform And if you're teaching four or five year olds, you're not going to get Most likely going to get sharp cutters out of them unless you really spend a lot of time and the kid's really into it A lot of it is just life skills that they're learning coordination. They're learning strength This is when they're learning their proper form and they're fundamental so that when they grow into Adolescence, then they're doing the techniques are going to be a lot stronger But when you're teaching an adult, it's you know, it's it's you're going right into the meat and the detail and stuff So school that only wants to teach adults. I think that's fine and actually It's it's harder to run a business if it's just if you're running the school It's harder to run a school on just an adult program only because you're never get as many adults as you're going to have Children not not usually children's programs I hate to say it is where the money is and I don't want to I don't mean that in terms of a profit Although it can be but that's where if you're going to run a school The children's program is what runs the school if it keeps the lights on it keeps the doors open Um, if it's if it's an adult only school Typically, you'll see that more and smaller like smaller dojos or off to the side Maybe they're that big storefront. They might be more industrial park or they're in a rec center It's it's just harder to run an adult program on its own But no, I think that's fine if the school wants to run an adult program only that's fine That comes down to that instructor and what they want to teach And if that's where their passion is and that's what the skill is and one who they want to work with great Because you can do more with adults. There's no question. You can you can do more complicated techniques and get deeper into the system with it And I think that's fine What I recommend little kids like age three to six to spar Three might be a little young What I would Probably pad work. I would think would be a good place to start with them six. Yeah, absolutely We we had six year old spar. No problem But you know as long as you they're within reason, you know, you're not going to have and go deck it out full contact It's but it's a good It's a good way for them to learn restraint and control mainly control And teach them light contact and basic stuff like I wouldn't go right for the grabs the holes and chokes and all that But do like light, you know, maybe I'd say even the point sparring might be a good start with just to get their feet wet But then continue sparring to get them used to taking them a bombardment Um getting kids to spar I think is important. You just have to do it within the reason You can't expect them to spar like an adult You got to start light, but you can absolutely build them up. I've seen some tough six year olds, man My instructor was really big on that his his six year olds could fight and they could fight hard And but but again controlled Three I would three year old. I would recommend doing just pad work. Of course. That's a little too early Uh, but teach them teach them footwork teach them basics and let them hit the pad because they're gonna love that That's gonna be fun for them. Um Sparring might be a little too intimidating at that age, but you're gonna have to judge it on the kid But six I think is fine Infant fight club at each street. Yeah, there's a movie for you right there Let's see Is belt rank really important? I like training for the fun of it in same shape. I don't care what my belt is I just feel there's so much emphasis on getting belts that I don't care Um, I agree. It should not be about the belt I think the belts are very useful for where you are the curriculum And as a milestone, there is something psychological about it. It feels good to achieve something and I think it's fine But the belt itself should not be your focus. So yes, you've got the right attitude focus on your On your on your training in your material of all your afters that belt Then just go buy the dang belt, you know, that's all you want But if you want what what it stands for earn it It feels better to get it when you earn it, but it should never be about the belt. It's it's about what your You know, it's not about the belt doesn't make the martial artist You make the belt you represent what that belt stands for and that's where I think the focus should be What do I think about cold tea behavior at mcdojo's? If by cold tea you mean that they shut themselves off to any outside ideas and Like like the no-touch falls into that quite a bit If you have a school that absolutely forbids you from looking at anything else or listen to anybody else or Or bring anything else or telling you to forget what you trained I don't like that as much But there's a line because if you're if you're just starting out you shouldn't necessarily be bringing in Okay, this this is a little okay. So if you start say you did another one art for 10 years, whatever You did taekwondo for 10 years now you're gonna go started You did two class and this is your first week and you're starting to bring on your taekwondo stuff in you're insisting You're gonna bring your stuff in and you're kind of you're kind of out of line there because You're coming to their school to learn their system Don't dump all your stuff on top of them. It's fine to compare It's fine to talk about but do it their way at least at first and learn and learn how they do it Learn what they teach and as you go along and as you become proficient with it You start to see correlations of where you can mix I wouldn't mix arts that quick It's you need to spend some time in the art So but in terms of having if you if you walk through a school and they said forget everything you've learned before coming in here Well, you really can't I mean that's part of you. That's part of what you know part of your training You can't just say okay turn it off. I don't know that anymore if they're trying to discourage Any other outside the box thinking or anything other than what they do Uh, that might be a problem because that might they might want you just to commit to them and them only and Again, it comes down to the art because a lot of arts Especially with the chinese arts They don't want you learning other systems at the same time or with other shifus and all that because you can mix it up And it's easy to get get confused But if you came from a karate background you go to school and they want you to forget at all You have to look at the context but As far as cult behavior, I don't think a cult mind is healthy at all I think you should always have an open mind You should always explore and kind of decide for yourself the more you experience And you expose yourself to and more knowledge you take in the better educated decisions You can make on your own training because ultimately it is your own training Even though you have a lead instructor teaching your class or running your school It ultimately comes down to you because you're the one who has to do it And you're the one who has to determine if it's valuable to you or not if you're getting out of it What you want So if the school's trying to pigeonhole you into this wonderful box and won't let you and forbids you from You know interacting with anyone else in the schools other associations other arts And I would suspect that I would suspect that I disagree when I buy it. I don't get a kick to the gut and I think that Michael that's all you get. I will agree with you 100% I know exactly what you're referring to the Kemple test We have a tradition in Kemple when you get your new belt you get a kick to the stomach And it's something instructors love The basis of the whole idea is at least how it was presented to us is you're getting your new belt You're jumping to the next level or with growth comes pain and you're also getting, you know, you're kicking you up to the next level So and also it encourages you to work on your abs and do your sit-ups So when you get your say you're an adult when you go from white belt to yellow belt There's a little you know your little ceremony We put the belt on halfway and you go to a horse stance and you and you clench and you tighten your stomach And the instructor will give you a kick it'll be light at first, you know But as you go up in ranks the kicks get harder and harder and harder And yes, I will agree with Michael 100% Just buying your belt and not getting that kick is not satisfying because there's there's a little bit of pride in that kick Especially when you get to the black belt level and those kicks start coming in a little bit harder And you take it you're like, yeah Yeah, I'll agree. There's some satisfaction of getting that you don't get that from amazon Unless you pay the amazon you can put on special structures have the amazon guy kick you you can do that What about if a school does not want you to compete? It's always been a red flag to me It's just like you don't want to get exposed. Just like the opinions of the competitor That's also a fuzzy area. That's a good question. They don't want you to compete Why why don't they want you to compete? They don't want you to Get exposed to other arts or if they don't If it is an art that's not being held up the fighting Then yeah, like if you guys never spar never spar in the school and they don't want you to compete So that's probably because they're knows it's not going to hold up But if you guys do a ton of sparring, um I don't see anything wrong with competition But that comes down to it's a difficult instructor and a lot of them will let instruct Let their students compete on their own not necessarily make it a school tournament But sometimes, you know students want to go off and try out. I think that's fine. Personally if it's me My instructors always encourage us to do what we want in terms of that that we were never forced or forbidden to compete If they won't let you you have to ask yourself. Why aren't they letting you is it if you guys are not sparring And they don't want you to interact with the schools or compete then that might be some some red flags there for sure We don't encourage competition, but we encourage real sparring for example. Yes, absolutely If the school is self-defense based The school is competition based the school is any bit of a fighting school You need to spar you have to have those hands-on experience. I don't care how many techniques to do in the air I don't care how many times you practice on the wave master. You have to spar That's where your timing your formation and your your judgment come into play all at the same time So if it's a fighting art that you're training or self-defense art you have to spar It doesn't have to be every day But it needs to be on a regular basis because you need that resistance because otherwise that without that resistance You're not going to have that there when you need it if it's a school That doesn't focus on self-defense. If it's more of a workout a little bit of a different story Well, these guys you guys have some great questions today. This is awesome heard about a friendly instructor with a legitimate experience but turned out to be a predator he keeps teaching whole That is a topic. I'm going to dance the line on because once again Going back to my first instructor. There's a lot of reasons why my first school shut down And unfortunately that was one of them and I'm not going to go into any details whatsoever But yes, that was an issue and unfortunately it does happen Now what's unusual is if they are a predator and they're caught doing that and they're still allowed to teach Have they just not been caught yet? If you know of a instructor who's doing that especially with anyone under age Then you might want to alert the authorities because that's that's dangerous. That's that person's harming people Um, but that that is a very very touchy topic and I've unfortunately been I've seen it firsthand and it's not pretty it's not pretty and it destroys the school destroys lives If that person that person definitely should not be teaching if that's 100 what they're doing But usually if they get caught that's usually the end of their martial arts career What belt rank would you recommend starting competitions at that depends on the art? It really does I don't think you should go compete necessarily until you get your bearing in the art And every school is different from when they allow you to spar We were allowed to spar when I started when we got our yellow belt that was kind of like our next step It was like our incentive to earn our yellow belt um To compete I think before you go into a competition you need to Get a sense of timing be able to hold your own in class first, you know Hold your own if you're doing point sparring in your class win several matches Be get that timing down where you can win the matches if it's continuous sparring Stand your ground and put up a fight. I wouldn't go into competition until you're comfortable with any of that So that's kind of based on your comfort level and your instructor But I wouldn't just you know start a school go for a week or two and immediately run to a tournament that that's going to be a bad experience get your bearings put some time into it and You know, don't rush it You know you want you want to learn it probably because you can get hurt if you just rush into something like that Because you're going to be going up against people who probably have a lot more experience Damn we spar in our championship like it's not contact. It's Contacts we have to punch but not hit the person you have to have control Yeah, I don't like the whole stopping before you hit them. I like contact because I don't like it where a point counts if you just get within a couple inches to pull back I like the contact. You don't have to hit the person hard I fully believe that you should be able to go full speed full power and control the strike when you hit them That's a big part of training a lot of people seem to understand It's not like contact and it's not all or nothing You should have every degree of control in there. You should be able to throw a punch at someone's face full speed And control the impact of it So I I'm not a fan of tournaments that count points that don't connect. That's that's just my personal opinion Doesn't speak for everybody of course Um, also people ask about merchandise Because I in the first video said that the school's got a bunch of merchandise and they force it on you This is the mcdojo Again, it depends if they make you buy their whole line of shirts and their whole line of shorts And then everything's branded and then you have to buy their DVDs Then you have to buy all their books and instructors were releasing private lessons And then you have to do private lessons a month If you're if you're half if you're forced to pay all that on top of tuition That's a problem. That's a big sign that their focus is money If the school has it But it's not required. It's optional Totally different story because I do believe You know, there's something wrong with wearing a school shirt or even if the instructor makes you wear a school shirt That's fine. Even if you buy a shirt. That's part of uniform. That's fine. If they make you buy a new one every month Then that's a little bit of a different story But if they've got DVDs available if they have private lessons available in books and manuals And it's optional I do recommend getting it don't because that's the supplemental material and trust me trust me trust me trust me If your school ever closes you're gonna wish you had that But if they force it down your throat If you have to buy all of that on top of having to pay tuition on top of private classes Then I start to question what their motors are and where their priority lies So I don't think the fact of having merchandise is the problem at all a lot of merchandise. I think it's very beneficial and very Very supplemental to training, but it depends on if it's forced on you or not So I want to avoid topics right now in terms of specific arts We'll do other topics if you guys like this format and we'll definitely do this more often Like I said, this is kind of a test Stream to see how this plays out and see how the interaction goes because we do want to do a lot more streaming You know, especially with this downtime we've had we've been putting a lot of thought where we're taking this channel And live streams is definitely the area we want to focus on so I know there's a lot of questions coming up about specific arts I kind of want to save those because I don't think that's something that can just be answered real quick Um, I do want to come back to those because I think they deserve more in depth answers And we can even do a channel or a stream all about different arts to talk about different arts But today I kind of want to see we I want to see what you guys are about McDotas because there's a lot of questions There's been a lot of questions and I think this is a good opportunity to talk about it Pros and cons of sparring are easy Honestly, the pros there's more pros and cons the only cons of sparring that I can think of is Um, I don't like points sparring unless unless the school unless your whole goal is just for tournaments and competition Points sparring is fine If you're learning self-defense points sparring I think is harmful if that's all you do I don't think it teaches a realistic scenario. I don't think it precious tests you properly Um, of course, there's always the con of getting hurt But that's honestly in context of what you're doing and what the structures are when you do the pros of sparring Are far vast. I mean you're that's that You're learning your pieces. So Basically, you know, you're learning your forms. You're learning your stances. You're learning your basics You're learning all your timing sparring is where it all comes together sparring is where you know If your material is working for you or not that is where you know if you're learning and if you're becoming better that is the The that is, you know, your classroom is the laboratory. Well, here's the experiment. Did this work? So I think I think there's far more pros to sparring and I'm I love sparring sparring is fun It's the best part of it for me because it also teaches you where you're missing where you're lacking There's nothing more frustrating than thinking you're going to do well And you have that opponent just gets that shot and every time you can see it come in and they keep hitting you with it It's like dang it But it forces you to go back and it forces you to get better and address it So I I think there's far more pros than cons to sparring McDojo 15 plus kids in one class a bad sign not necessarily Um, if we're talking plus if you're talking 30 40 50 kids That's a lot and yeah, you're probably going along the lines of the mcdojo there but If you've got two or three instructors on the floor That's not too bad Like I said a lot of schools need the children's program to keep the doors open And as long as the kids are getting the training that they're paying for or their parents are paying for and they're getting the attention So it's not just They've run it all over the room and the instructors got no control And then it's basically a big daycare But if you know if it's regimented and they're actually learning another control and you have multiple instructors for a large group I think that's fine And my first school we were at Which was mcdojo at one point in time And I didn't know this till way later because I was only you know the teens class at the very beginning But apparently at one time The school had over 300 students when I heard that years later. I was like wow like I mean my classes were large the teens class. We have maybe 10 kids in the class. It's not too bad When we started teaching the kids classes were large. They they were about 20 kids per class, you know 2025 at some point at its peak so the number Yeah, the the larger the class Is questionable if if the kids are not in their control and if you don't have enough instructors on the floor to work with them And also too a challenge is even if you have multiple instructors say you've got four or five instructors And you often split the group up or the class up into different groups It gets to a point where it gets loud in there and it gets difficult to teach them That if you've got you know, this this instruction over here with their 10 kids and this guy's over there with their Five kids and you're over here with with your 12 kids or 10 kids You know, there's a lot of noise going on different lessons going on that could be a little bit of a Interruption or a tough dynamic But just a number of kids not necessarily but you have to look at the dynamic of how those kids are being handled and taught Sparring can be addictive. I get an absolutely absolutely once you get into it. Oh, yeah, you want to keep on going until you just drop literally so What are your thoughts on instructors taking over schools then becoming very sloppy with uniforms movements and instructors wearing best If they're taking over schools, then that comes down Then they're not showing any pride in your school if there are you talking about an instructor who buys someone out or an assistant that takes over Anyone who takes on a school I do think you need to have a level of professionalism and Presentability if you are taking over school or opening up a school and you look sloppy and you're teaching poorly Then what are the motives like you do they really know what they're teaching or is it just about making a quick buck? Which is weird because martial arts schools are not easy to make money on they're really or not unless unless you really milk it So your school is closed. I'm turning my garage to home dojo mats and all right. Yeah, mats are expensive Oh, what mat brand would I recommend there? That's so many So many answers to that Uh, when my school closed several years ago and I worked on my own for two years I didn't have any money to buy the mats mats are expensive even puzzle mats are expensive Honestly, I went to home Depot and I just bought the thin little gym mats. It was like a pack of I don't know a pack of 25 hundred bucks and it covered my garage floor at least area I was working in it's not ideal. It's it's not that soft, but it was better than cement I'm asking you expensive. I would just say find whatever's within your budget. Um, don't go too crazy if you're on your own Especially if it's temporary don't go too crazy. Maybe even just work in the grass for a bit Just to kind of if you have a yard if you have that option to work in the yard Um, unless you're going to really dedicate yourself to a major home dojo I wouldn't go through a lot of expense But um, there's options But like I said, it goes anywhere from home Depot basic garage mats all the way up to high end mass that could cost thousands of dollars There's an everything in between Can we do history of jkd? Yeah, that's that's definitely on on possibility for us to do So, let's see Yeah, we had a guy when we did that first video we had a guy Jump on and yell Like he got really nasty about how dare we f with people's livelihoods and how dare we make a video that Pointed that made people question their own schools and and that we should take it Like he was demanding that we take it down and and I was like wait a minute Why why shouldn't people question what they're learning? You know people are paying good money to learn a skill There's nothing wrong with question And he's like it's not up to you because if this person's working hard to run their school or run their business Why should you interfere? It's like when your business if your business model is teaching somebody how to protect themselves That's their lives You know you are putting their lives in your hand if you are not giving them a quality products If you're giving them a false sense of security and giving them tools to defend their lives that are not good I don't care what kind of livelihood that's interfering with you shouldn't be teaching you shouldn't be running that school And he's got angrier and angrier and I didn't understand why somebody would be so irate and it got to the point I started to suspect I'm like I wonder if this guy is running mcdojo and he doesn't like what we're saying And I ended up saying if if you're at this point if you're running this school and you don't like What we're saying in this video the maybe the problem is not the video so much as Maybe you should look at how you're running your school if this is upsetting you that much If you're taking great offense to a lot of these a lot of this advice And maybe you need to reevaluate the school and we eventually have to remove them from the channel He just and he started attacking other viewers It was ugly, which is why I wanted to visit this and talk to you guys because there's a lot of There's a lot of people with opinions out there and they don't always agree with You know, you know, especially if you're interfering with the way they do it It's kind of like the no-touch thing. I had several people take offense to no-touch knockouts comment And and they're like you have to keep an open mind Yeah, just keep an open mind, but I'm not going to believe in magic I mean if you're training a martial art I'm not going to believe that you can look at me and throw your hands out and then throw magic across the room to knock you out If you're teaching that You're not a martial art. That is theatrics. That is that is a dramatic school that is not legitimate fighting and Like I said in this this past video. I consider martial arts. It's got to be hands-on You are learning a skill a trade A skill set that's going to let you manipulate someone's body have full control over your own And it's tough. It takes hard work. There's no magic to it You're not going to be able to look at somebody hard enough to hurt them You have to be able to move and control your movement. Someone else's movement with it I suffer terribly from pain from my martial arts. I've got a black belt So what what's what's your question taekwondo guru? You suffer terribly from pain. What kind of pain? History of tongue see those soon. I know you didn't admit and so retired soon I mean The art we're working on now is shodokan. We're supposed to have that done at this point, but this whole You know isolation thing and and a personal schedule was kind of threw everything out of whack Which is kind of why we're trying to this past month. We've been flying by to see the different pants I mean fully honest with you. We're just we're in the middle of developing a lot of new ideas from the channel so a lot of our What was on our immediate agenda got disrupted and we're trying really hard to kind of bring that in and bring that back We have a lot in the works. I'll do an announcement video very very soon We've got some sub series that we're working on that we think you guys are going to like a lot But we're not quite ready to announce it just yet Shodokan. Yeah shodokan is coming up. That's the one that we're closest on doing King. Okay. Just horror. Can you a video exposing fake martial arts or mcdojo? um Honestly, that's not where I want to take this We like to focus. There's a lot of channels out there that do that go expose fake black belts and go expose fake schools I don't want to do that because that kind of feels like we're kind of more into Sensationalism and and and the dark not the dark side but the negative side of the martial arts We want to focus more on Finding the best in martial arts even of arts that a lot of people don't like There's always something of value in it if you look hard enough and that's kind of where our focus is I don't want to be The channel that goes and tries to defraud so and so I'd rather focus on giving you guys the tools And helping us all together educate ourselves on what to look for to make the right decisions when joining schools So that when you do come across them like that you can recognize it That's kind of more where we want to focus on. I don't really want to make this about the fraud in this school Or doing that or doing any exposés like that. That's that's a different type of Channel and that's I don't feel like that's aligns ourselves lines with our goals that we have set forward And wave hi garvin um Someone else brought up in the last video uh One warning sign is the instructor beats up on the students And yes, I'm going to agree with that because there's a big difference There's a big difference between instructor who is teaching and using it as an example versus instructor who's using you as a punching bag And any anyone knows or anyone who loves who really gets to the martial arts There's a little bit of a pride being picked out like when your instructor picks you to demonstrate on It's it's it's like yes, it's like an honor even though it might hurt. It's still an honor But there's a difference between taking a hit or two to be demonstrated on versus an instructor showing off And I have seen that and it's not pretty We had a guest instructor that taught at about a month out of school Maybe two months and his school closed like he lost his location He came over to our school about five students maybe six students and their form was terrible But all he did was You know, he would teach his classes, but we were all in the joint class and he would pick us highest ranks out Just to throw us repeat it and he would repeat it He wouldn't teach so much But he just wanted to demonstrate that he could beat us and it was fine He could but you after a while it got old because his focus was look how tough I am look how tough I am And this is an adult's class. This isn't kids where you're trying to teach them discipline You know, he was belittling his guys and he was beating on them so hard They all quit one of them even cried and like when he gets to that point You're you're you're just a bully at that point if your whole Goal is to show off improve yourself to them Then why are you running the school because you're not teaching them? You're just you just want to you know, raise your own self-esteem where it's feel better about yourself But in fact, you're not actually doing anybody any favors So yeah, I don't like there's a big distinction between just beating up on students because you can Versus using students as demonstrations. There's nothing wrong with using demonstrations Like I said, we take pride in that like I always, you know, my instructor called me up I'm like, okay, this is gonna hurt but he knows I can take it. That's why he's calling me So it's a little bit of an honor It's like a badge you earn when your instructor wants to use you to demonstrate But I do have a funny story about that We were at another school uh guest instruction and my instructor called me up to teach a technique and Same thing he called me up to as an example And the technique finished with a nice little uppercut right to the chest And it hurt, but okay good It was a big call thump and and I took the licking and we're about to go back and one kid Sir Where'd you hit him? I was like, okay. Thanks kid He pulled me back up. He did the technique again Bow got me again and he's like, well, where's that sound coming from? He goes, you're making you're slapping yourself right and like no, he's hitting me So my instructor did it again and this kid kept doing it and kept doing it I'm thinking oh when we spar you're gonna get it. Yeah, I went home that I had knuckle bruises on my chest, but Oh it froze. What happened? Oh, can you guys hear me? Can you guys hear me or is the video just frozen? You got okay, you can hear that's interesting. All right. Let's see what's going on here Interesting. I'm gonna switch cameras real quick Well, I we might have to end it here. I'm not getting the picture back You guys can still hear me though Interesting, okay, um