 Great. Everybody, welcome to NFA Live or not Financial Vice-Live. This is episode number 50. Can you believe it? We've made it all the way to 50. We're halfway there to 100. Congratulations, we did it. As always, I'm welcomed by not an AI simulation guy from Coin Bureau, Guy. Thanks for stopping by. Thanks, Roy. I mean, that's what an AI simulation would say. So you're going to have to take my word for it. But yeah, good to be here. Well, that's what we go by. We just assume that it's not a scam here. Just kidding. And then, of course, as always, Benjamin Cowan from In The Codeverse. How's it going, buddy? Pretty good about you. Yeah, pretty good. I mean, I'll be pretty good if I actually bought some Nvidia stock, which we're going to start off with today. So as you guys may have heard, actually, before we get into that, as a reminder, if you guys are not subscribed to these two gentlemen's channel, they got great content. Ben just put out a bang out of a video. What would a hard landing even look like? It's long, but it's interesting. It's only an hour and 16 minutes only to be trumped by his latest Bitcoin dominance video, which was an hour and 25 minutes, which was really good, actually. And also another one I like is the MarketCycle ROI. On top of that, you got Guy over at Coin Bureau. This is a must watch. ETH Layer 2 is ready to pump. I didn't watch this one here. But this one scared the hell out of me about the AI and banning, especially free speech. And this one with Arthur Hayes with Jessica. If you haven't watched that one, it makes you really want to follow Arthur Hayes, that's for sure. And then, of course, Coin Bureau Clips, which you had my guy Alex Fossil from Swissburg. So thanks. And I guess I didn't want to watch top deep end picks. Sweet TSA. Maybe we'll get into that a little bit. Anyhow, let's talk about this. Nvidia, apparently, it just blew up the world. And it looks like their revenue is up massively. And I don't know what the price action is going to be, because I don't think, actually, only the markets are open yet. But it looks like things are on the right track. So first of all, I always thought this was a narrative. Ben, inform us what's going on with Nvidia, how big this is, and then Guy, if you could talk to us about AI picks. So Ben, we'll start with you and go from there. Well, according to the options market, the implied move for Nvidia after earnings was 11%. And it actually is trading right now in its pre-market. It's up about 11% in fact. So it's currently at 752, which is a new, it's a new high, in fact. So yeah, I think a lot of people, I think the world was going into Nvidia earnings wondering if they were going to beat or not. And they did. They beat earnings per share, right? They were beating their revenue. And so now naturally, it was funny because the market initially sold off. Nvidia initially sold off down into the 640s or something, 650s. And then it just popped all the way back up. So I guess the AI party is still going on at least for a little while. I know some people have sort of compared it to sort of the Cisco run, you know, 20, 30 years ago. And there are some similarities. There's also some differences as well. I think the margins on Nvidia are a bit better than what Cisco had back then. But in the actual sort of like the move, the percent gain in the move has been pretty similar over the last like, you know, five or six years. And Cisco ended up topping out in, I believe it was March of 2000. And it's funny because it ended up topping out on still really great numbers, which is kind of interesting. And I mean, again, I think it was because the labor market was starting to show some signs of weakness around that same time. But yeah, I mean, it's certainly something to keep an eye on. The NASDAQ is up. Obviously, the S&P is up. And yeah, we'll see where it goes. Yeah. Did we hit an all-time high for S&P 500? Yes. Well, you mean today? No, not like this week, or was it that last week? Because I know we want, I think we went over five. Yeah, we hit new highs back in mid-January, in fact. We only had to go above like 48.18 or so to get a new high. So we did that. We did that back in mid-January. And then we just continued, the S&P has just continued to grind higher ever since. It has pulled back a little bit over the last week or so. But oftentimes, the back half of February, it gets a pullback in the election year. And then it theoretically continues the move. Excellent. Well, let's see how it goes. I mean, everybody talks about how, well, it's great. The stock market is doing fantastic. That means the good things it could. But just remember that apparently, Japan is in a recession. I think the Nikai, however you say it, just hit its all-time high. So take that for what it's worth. I've seen a lot of people say, well, if that's what a recession is like, I guess you're not so bad. Exactly. I think the counterpoint is that oftentimes, markets are at all-time highs as they hit. Yeah, we'll see exactly what happens. It makes you wonder, because people say, well, Bitcoin's never been through a recession. You can make an argument, but we can see what's going to happen in 2024, 2085. If we hit a recession, hey, we hit a recession. Maybe we get out of it. Technically, it did go through a recession, because technically, 2020, oh yeah. Yeah, you know how it is. The surveys of sickness. So Guy, same thing here, not just about that. But we know that if NVIDIA is doing great, the AI narrative is really picking up steam. And you guys have done a great amount or different amounts of videos on AI. What are we looking for as far as like the AI projects? And I will just say for everybody, if you're curious about it, before Guy rips off some of the things that he's in, has talked about, but if you go to coingecko.com and click on categories, if you scroll down, I think it's 24 here, you can see the artificial intelligence. It'll give you just a huge listing of all the different things that are up by market cap, and you can kind of go from there. But Guy, real quick, what does this mean to you as far as the AI play that's out there? Yeah, it's a good question. We have started covering AI stuff. It's mostly been around kind of AI policy. That last video that we did, the thing that you mentioned, is focused on this absolutely crazy. I think it was a house hearing on how governments are funding AI tools for the purposes of online censorship. There's some scary stuff that AI is being used for, or that the people are planning to use it for. And I think that ties into my first point around AI. And I think this is something that most people, I think, will have noticed in the centralized AI, coming from the likes of open AI, Google, etc., these big centralized companies, that is a big risk because it appears to be taking on the biases of its creators. And there's been tons of stuff all over crypto, Twitter, and many other places about how we're already seeing kind of political bias from these AIs. And that is a really worrying trend. So I think in terms of, this makes the case as strong as anything can for decentralization in AI. If we do get some truly decentralized AI projects that don't take on these creators biases and can be incredibly neutral for want of a better term, then that is definitely preferable to what we have at the moment. In terms of AI cryptos, and I'm glad you brought that list up, Rob, because it is worth looking at. You take a look, there are the top three AI cryptos, Bit and Saw, Render and Fetch.AI, obviously, they've all been most, well, apart from Bit and Saw, have been pumping like crazy recently. Those three all have market caps over one billion. I couldn't tell you with any sort of degree of authority what those particular projects actually do. And this is the case for pretty much all these AI projects at the moment. It might seem a bit unfair to kind of lump all these AI projects in together, because what we have at the moment is a huge amount of cryptos popping up all the time with AI in the name. Most of them we don't really know in what way they're looking to leverage AI. A lot of them are just going to turn out to be vaporware, essentially. Exactly. They're going to turn out to be trash, because back when, was it 2017 when some companies figured out that if you just put blockchain in your company name, you can watch your stock price go absolutely insane. And I think we're definitely in that sort of phase. Again, we've got cryptos popping up dot AI or AI dot this or whatever and boom to the moon. And that speaks to me. That says to me that we're in an enormous bubble, and at some point we're going to have to, you know, the wheat and the chap are going to have to get separated. And I guess it's going to probably take that bubble to burst, and then we'll know which AI cryptos are legit and which ones weren't ever going to come to anything, which ones really were trash. And that doesn't make it very easy picking these AI, but picking any of these AI picks. I must say I haven't touched any of them, because I don't know for sure yet. And it's something that I need to spend a lot more time on trying to discern like, are these things really using AI? And what are they going to offer that others aren't? So I think that's an important thing to bear in mind. And I think the big question is where the AI narrative goes next, because at the moment the focus is all on the infrastructure, it seems to me, you know, the picks and shovels that you sell during a gold rush. And obviously, when it comes to AI, the picks and shovels are these chips, these chips that Nvidia is selling. Which, by the way, apparently, someone was saying these chips, these Nvidia chips use as much energy as an American home in a year. And these things are being shipped out in the millions just within the United States. So I think that is going to cause some issues in itself. Like where are we going to find just the power, just the electricity to run these things? But that's a question for another time. But I think, yeah, so where does the AI narrative go from here? Because at the moment, as I say, it's infrastructure, it's chips. But we saw this in the dot-com bubble that Ben was referencing. Eventually, people will have all the picks and shovels that they need. So where do we go then? And my guess would be that the big winners from AI then will perhaps be like publicly traded companies that can leverage AI the most effectively. So maybe something like Adobe, because Adobe does a lot of its stuff is related to content generation images and things like that. And chat, GBT, and is it Sora, this latest offering from OpenAI? They're very much focused on that. And of course, Skynet. Of course, Skynet. Skynet guy. Yeah. So I think, so where does it go? Like what happens when we have all the picks and shovels? One of the areas that I'm bullish on when it comes to crypto, I should bring this back to crypto a little bit because that's what you were asking about. As well as a heck of a lot of electricity to run all this AI stuff, it's also going to need an enormous amount of data storage. And that's one of the reasons why I think decentralized data storage could be, it kind of feeds into this deep in narrative decentralized physical infrastructure, which a lot of people are getting very excited about, myself included. So I think that stuff could be, maybe that is a better thing to watch at the moment. Things like decentralized data storage and decentralized cloud computing. And I think if you go back to that list of AI cryptos, what's interesting is that you see a cash network at number four on that list. I mean, that is decentralized cloud computing, for instance. And I think there are some storage protocols on there as well on that list as well. So that could be the area that benefits first. I think we're still very much in the picks and shovels phase. The question is, when does that phase end? And what do we get at that point? I don't know the answer to that. I'm still kind of digging into these AI cryptos. But yeah, at the moment, it's so risky because so many of them are just trash. I'll just dot AI, buy me now. Well, first of all, this is why I appreciate both of you guys for being on the show. First of all, Guy said, and he made it very clear, I don't know all these different projects, which is something is the opposite you're going to hear in a lot of different places. It's like, oh, I know it's this and I know it's that. And in all honesty, no one really knows for sure every single every single product is out there and know the technicals and really have like a solid, fantastic understanding. Really, it's just very tough to do that. And then just to move on and to talk about how we all differ. When you said that, you said it's very risky and Ben will probably agree with you, these kind of plays are risky. I kind of look at it as a different way. I'm like, well, if it's risky, and then and answer me this real quick about bubbles. Last time we went through 2021, how long do we have like an altcoin rally after after Bitcoin topped out? I mean, it kind of going into it because we're talking about Bitcoin dominance. Bitcoin usually goes up, then the altcoins come after that. And even if they're trash, they still run up. But how long does it on average is it take? Well, it depends. I mean, so in 2021, Bitcoin topped in April and then all its rallied for about a month. But you have to remember that for all intents and purposes, I mean, Bitcoin basically topped in February. I mean, because they hit like 58K and then it just slowly grinded higher. So if you think about it like that, I mean, altcoins were rallying basically from January through May. And then Ethereum is the one that finally kind of had its final rally in May and then everything came crashing down. But if you go back to 2017, Bitcoin put in an all-time high or put it inside the week of December 17th. And the altcoins then rallied collectively for about three more weeks. Some of them rallied longer and put in new highs even like February and March. But most of them were done. But the trick, Rob, and I think this is an important point, is that there's no guarantee that the all-time high comes, right? If it comes, then that's where you can see that rotation. If it doesn't come, like you get a 2019 type rally where you don't put in an high, that's where you don't get the rotation into altcoins. And that's where the altcoin market tops the same time as Bitcoin. And so you have to be careful. It's all about if it goes to new highs, what essentially happens is a lot of the Bitcoiners who have been holding their Bitcoin, they then go sell it and they just flood into the altcoin market. But if you get a 2019 type rally and the all-time high doesn't actually happen, then all these people that have Bitcoin didn't really get the opportunity that they were probably hoping for to sell off their Bitcoin in a new high. So I think it kind of depends on if you hit new highs or not. Yeah. I can see it for the all-time highs, of course, how it usually goes to that pattern. But again, this is why I appreciate both you because there's different perspectives. Like when I hear Guy, I'm like, okay, I can see that. And when I hear you, it makes me a little bit more conservative. But in the back of my head, I'm always thinking myself, okay, there's opportunity there. There's opportunity in somewhere to do this. But then it's super risky. So everybody that of course is listening to me right now is going, is Rob giving financial advice? Absolutely not. Maybe degenerate gambling advice at the very maximum. But there is opportunities out there. And it looked no further than this interview that Jessica did with Arthur Ayes when he talked about what he's doing as far as like these different altcoins. But that's the thing that you hear right there. And then lastly, I will just say this about Guy. Guy, you're very modest as far as like, I don't really know too much of these things. Because when I was checking out on Coin Bureau Club, these last six that you did, Metal Blockchain, Claros, Rilio, Rolebit, Metis, DeSau, you do know that from the time that you did that video to now on this one, you're up like 200%. On this one, Claros, when he did it, you were at 0.013. And now you're at 0.022. Again, another head and X. This one's even better, I think 16 cents to 84 cents. Not too bad. Rilio did well. Yeah. Metis, $16. Now it's at $85. Okay, this one, you let me astray. Let me just stop you there, Rob. Which one of those do you think I hold one of those in my portfolio? Which one do you think it is? I know exactly which one it is. It's this one. Because I've seen your portfolio, I'm like, well, that looks pretty good. But I'm like, I got to diversify a little bit. So yeah. So Guy, for these things that you talk about, you guys, that's why I like your channel. That's why I like Ben's channel because they give me the research and then I can also go and verify it, which helps me out a ton. So thank you guys for that. I just wanted to mention that before we move on to the next piece. Okay. Thanks, man. Yes. That's a reminder guys, if you're here from my channel and you crave that altcoin discussions, these two channels, I think you're going to find, I mean Rob's channel and Guy's channel, they talk about that a lot. And I think those are some of the best channels to watch that stuff on. Thank you, Ben. However, when we get into the strategies, we have to talk about my number one tool that I use, which is your website for my risk endeavors. Anyhow, before we get into that, there's this question I've kind of been rumbling around in my head. And it's not going to be very popular. I'm just going to tell you right now. And it goes like this, Michael Saylor. So he came out not too long ago and he talks about this quite a bit. He says, you should never sell your Bitcoin. You should never sell your Bitcoin because of course it's the hardest asset out there. It's going to constantly appreciate, yes, there will be dips, but over cycles, you're going to come out ahead. And I asked this question somewhere. I said, look, I go, if it's, if this is the question where you should never sell your Bitcoin, then what do you do with it? Like, because you can't take loans against it, right? Because I've done that myself and it didn't work out too hot with Celsius. Of course, I got ripped off there. You can't use it for goods and services because essentially you're selling it at that point. You can't use it as collateral against anybody else because they're going to have your keys and not your keys, not your crypto. So the question I had for both of you is if you believe what Michael Saylor talks about, you should never sell your Bitcoin, then what do you do with it? And then the last thing I'll say is like, some people will tell me, well, it's for my kids and grandkids. Well, if that's the case, then what do you tell your kids and grandkids? Then you can't sell it either because this will constantly appreciate. So who wants to take that hot fire one? I don't mind leading off on it. All right. Okay. I mean, yeah, it's a great question. I think, as I think you sort of alluded to, Rob, the fact that Michael Saylor, it's all very well for Michael Saylor, multi-billionaire Michael Saylor to say, don't sell your Bitcoin when he owns a sizable stack of it, more than virtually anyone else. And speaking as speaks to someone who likely doesn't really need to buy anything, what more does he need? But I mean, I think it's a good question to ask because, yeah, he's right in so many ways. And no one, I should say, I don't want to be rude about Michael Saylor because no one has kind of done more to spread the word of Bitcoin than he has. So yeah, it is the hardest asset out there. So if I was looking to offload Bitcoin, if I was looking to offload BTC for something else, then it would have to be for me, it would have to be another hard asset. I don't see it as something to be spent on necessarily sort of goods and services. It would have to be another asset that can't easily be multiplied. And there aren't many things that fall into that category for me. Something like a house, okay, you might say, well, they build new houses all the time. If you're saying that you ain't ever been to the UK, I tell you the housing crisis there and many other countries is getting seriously bad. So I would say a house, I'd also say land as well. There's a finite amount of land on this earth and it's something that I would like to own in future. And I think that for me might be worth some Bitcoin in the future. And I think as well as being a hard asset, as well as exchanging exchanging Bitcoin for another hard asset, I think there are also things that have value beyond just money and land in a house I think fall into that category, but also things like education and healthcare. I finished my formal education for what it was worth, but if my nieces and nephews, of whom I have several, they may want to go to university in the future. I would consider an investment in their education. I would consider that to have a value way beyond any money. And again, I could see myself parting with some Bitcoin for that. Healthcare, you only have one body, you only have one life, you've got to look after it. So is Bitcoin, if I needed or someone close to me needed an emergency operation of some sort, a life-saving operation, sure, I'd spend some BTC if it came to that. So yeah, I see Bitcoin as a way to build wealth, to build something that you hold and not as money to spend and as a hedge against whatever the future might hold. Because we don't know, the fiat currencies are eventually going to zero. They're losing value every single day. And Bitcoin is my insurance policy against that outcome. Excellent. Yeah, I got to agree with all those points. It makes a lot of sense to me, especially for the education for healthcare. Ben, same thing. How do you see it working out? How do you write this? Well, one of the reasons why I talk about dominance so much is because, do you ever go to the store and you think about, hey, I want to buy this thing, but then you're like, oh, how much Bitcoin would that be equivalent to? Or how much insert random altcoin would that be equivalent to? I think a lot of people go through that at some point. And so the reason why the dominance is important is because it represents the Bitcoin standard, basically. You're saving in Bitcoin. It doesn't mean that you never sell it, but it means that whenever you make a decision about something, the idea is, well, is it going to bleed against Bitcoin? Or is it not? I mean, I talk a lot about how altcoins are bleeding to Bitcoin, but the actual same concept can be applied to basically every asset class. Micro-cap companies are bleeding to the Magnificent Seven. We saw Rivian and Lucid earnings come out yesterday, and they both got hammered after hours. If you pull up the Lucid Tesla chart or the Rivian Tesla chart, those micro-cap EV companies bleed to Tesla. And so it's the same idea. I think Bitcoin is what your base is rather than US dollars. You're thinking about it, all right. Well, if dominance of Bitcoin is going up, it means that everything is basically bleeding back to it. So let me think about it like that. I am someone that does enjoy taking profits on it whenever it goes into the bubble mania phase, because we know how brutal the two years after that can be. But the reality is, history would show that the Hodlers, if you will, the people that just kind of hold it no matter what throughout the years, they're also winners. They have been winners for a long time. We could always enter a period where it's flat for a while or something. But over the long haul, I would expect it to go higher. And the reason is because this society is built on inflation. Everything inflates in value over time. We're not everything, but you ideally are finding those things that are at least keeping pace with inflation. And I think Bitcoin has proven itself to be that. So yeah, I would sell Bitcoin before. I agree with Guy. I think selling it for things like real estate can make sense. Sometimes you just want to sell it and keep it in cash or stable coins for a little while and wait for the markets to cool off. Depending on the nature of the bubble, if it's like a 2019 bubble or a 2021 bubble, depending on the nature of it, you might sell it into that mania phase and then go speculate on some of the other cryptocurrencies. So I think there's all sorts of ways that you could use it to speculate. But at the end of the day, the biggest thing that I have found that I've been thinking about recently is not really the pride. It's not exactly where they are. It's basically, I think, time. I've sat here and I've watched some of these charts. I've watched this Bitcoin dominance chart go up for the last what, year and a half to two years. Yeah, I was right about it. And then I'm like, yeah, but I also just spent the last two years of my life watching this stupid part. Yeah. So then there's this other part of me that thinks like, yeah, that's all important and stuff. But I think as I go through more and more cycles, I'm going to not focus as much on the day-to-day stuff because it's so consuming and I want to look back on my life and be like, yeah, I did more than just look at the Bitcoin dominance chart or the ETH Bitcoin chart or all this stuff. Think about how many years these trends have been going on for and how long it takes to play out. I think time is something that at the end of the day, in 50 years, Bitcoin, it's not necessarily going to buy you more time. And so that's something I think we all have to remember. You still have to live your life and the way that you live your life is to occasionally use your Bitcoin to buy things that will improve your life like I was talking about. Yeah. Perfectly said. And it goes like this. It's because I always look at it and I think of myself not to get philosophical, but what is wealth? And to me, wealth is time. Wealth is doing the things that I want to do with my time. It's being able to be with my family, be with my wife, be with my friends and doing that at any time that I really want to. So Bitcoin is not those things. Bitcoin is not time. Bitcoin is not the happiness that gives to me, but Bitcoin can give you those things, but it is not those things. That's the whole thing I'm trying to say. So that will lead me to my next point because, guy, you were talking about moving Bitcoin and other assets. Ben was just talking about the same thing. I'm putting other assets. So what does that look like then? Because, let's be honest, we're going to probably see a monster rally coming up. We're going to see, I think we're going to have a major massive bull run. I could be wrong. I thought we got screwed out of one in 2021. But if we do that, I think we should have a plan going into it. So how does that plan look for you as far as taking profits on the road? And then what do you do with those profits? Do you stick them in a bank and have it with dirty fiat just sitting there inflating away? Or how does this look? Do you have that chart or should I feel me to pull it out? If you could, because you do better with moving around your own site than me. It's like you're talking to an infant when I'm doing it. I mean, I think there's a lot of different indicators you can use, actually. So I use this. This is what I use, this risk level for Bitcoin. Basically, the idea is I take some profits as it goes up and I buy when it's down here. So the last time I bought Bitcoin was late 2022. Did not buy any altcoins. It is what it is. But he admits it, gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, admit it. Excellent. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's sort of the idea of like, you know, how do I, I mean, it's hard to sell something on it. I don't have, right? So, but I did buy, I did buy Bitcoin. And I do have, I think there's some case to be made that like no matter what happens, like it's okay to hold like a certain person in Bitcoin, right? So like you have your, you're like, you're like your hodl stack and then your stack that you actually are willing to part with at certain times and the attempts to try to, to try to time some of these bubbles. But yeah, so what I do is I buy it below 0.4 risk. So when it's below here, I will DCA into Bitcoin. Let me see. Okay. Yeah. So when it's below here, this 0.4 risk level, I will DCA into Bitcoin. And then between 0.4 to 0.6, I don't do a thing. I just come on here and talk about crypto with you guys. I don't sell it. I'm not buying it. I'm just happy, you know, happy no matter what. And the idea is trying to not, to not stress so much about what way it actually goes, but to say, Hey, if it goes back down here to 0.4 risk, that means I will buy some, but if it goes up here, then that means I will sell some. And so what I do is when it gets into the 0.6 risk band and up, that's where I'm open to at least taking some, some profits. And I mean, it's hard to know exactly the extent that the bubble will go. Like over here, there's several instances where we went to the, you know, to the highest risk band, like the 0.9 to one risk band. But there's also cases where we topped out in the 0.8 to 0.9 risk band or like 2019, we topped out in the 0.6 to 0.7 risk band, right? So the problem is that until we go forward from here, you know, a few years, we don't know without the benefit of hindsight where it's going to top out. And so what I do is I use this called dynamic DCA. So like between 0.6 to 0.7, the idea is I would sell one tenth of my Bitcoin, which sounds like a pretty small amount. But it's basically to say, hey, if it ends up being a top like 2019, then I want to have at least sold something. Right? Like I don't want to watch a 3x, 4x move happen and not take any profits off the table, right? Like imagine it goes to, say, 60K or something, which would be around what it did back then. And if you watch to go all the way back down near the lows, I mean, I know that sounds absolutely absurd and good chance it doesn't happen. But I mean, that's basically what happened back then. So I think there's a case we made to take some profits off the table as you get into the risk levels that you're comfortable with selling in. And then what I do is when it gets to 0.7 to 0.8, then I would sell two tenths of the Bitcoin. And then 0.8 to 0.9, three tenths, and then 0.9 to 1, I would essentially just sell the rest of it from the stack that I'm willing to sell. I think it always makes sense to have like a hoddle stack. So that way, the way it works is you sell a small amount here so that there's actually some incentive for you to want it to go down, right? Sold a little bit of it. But you also have a much greater incentive to watch it go up because you still have 90%. But as you go through the risk bands, and that percentage becomes less and less, then your incentive becomes increasingly more that you would want to see it go back down as it gets up to these highest risk levels. So that's what I do. And I've tried to make that clear many times. I mean, I talk a lot about what Bitcoin might do in the short term. But all I do is trade the risk levels. By the way, there's a lot of other charts that you can use as well, besides this stuff. And I think one of them that everyone knows is the fear greed index. I mean, that's a great one, I think, to at least get some idea of what's going on. Do note that in the 2021 rally, we were basically in extreme greed for months before you told all your Bitcoin when it went to 90, you would have been selling it all at 15K back in 2020. So I don't think you should take this indicator to the bank. But a counterpoint is that when it went to 90 in 2019, it literally marked the top. So it really does depend, I think, on the nature of each rally. And that's why I talk about the all Bitcoin valuations over all USD valuations, because Bitcoin continues to sort of lead the charge. But that's what I primarily use, just the risk metric. And I try to do everything else out, although it's really hard to do that sometimes. That's what I try to do. Well, especially with where we're at, especially as we're always on X. All right, guy, my man, same question, but also I want to add something else to it, the strategy. And then what do you do with those profits? Okay. Well, my strategy is very simple. I'm just waiting to start selling when Ben starts buying. It's not a bad, that's a good indicator of use. I got to tell you, and I, you know what, I got to tell you, everybody tells me on my channel, they go, when Ben starts buying odds, that's when I'm going to start to load up. And I was like, yeah, I mean, if when Ben goes and odds, it's it's a done deal. That's when you know, it's season started. That's it. But okay. So, so, so guys, so that's your plan. I'm never talking about, I'm never talking about Bitcoin dominance again, after the cycle. Hey, man, some, some of us still love to watch those videos, and I'm still waiting for that to our video. But, but guy, real quick, what do you do with those, with those profits? You talked about assets, like, I mean, because, I mean, cash is great. Cash is really good, especially when we're going to like these, these monster, monster dips, and then we can really get back in. If you had like one Bitcoin, and you sold that, you know, in 2021 and got 60k out. And then of course, it crashes the 15 or 20k. Now you can essentially buy three Bitcoin congratulations, you're way ahead of the game. So like, how, how do you do it? Or what's the plan going forward? I guess. Well, yeah, first of all, anything, all altcoins will be on the table to sell, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not, I'm not going to make the mistakes of the previous cycle, cycle when I got too sentimental about certain holdings. So I'm, one of my big plans this, this time around is to be a lot more ruthless, you know, a lot more kind of dead-eyed when it comes to that. So yeah, so that's, that's the first thing. Anything, anything apart from Bitcoin is on, is on the table to sell. Some of those profits probably will find their way into, into Bitcoin eventually. It may be that I have to hold those profits in stables for a time waiting for Bitcoin to go lower, which I'm happy doing, you know, I'm happy to sort of take stables into, into self custody and sit on them for as, for as long as needs be. A lot will depend just on my personal circumstances at the time. And I think this is something worth reminding people, you know, because everyone's circumstances are different. So if you're, you know, if you need, if you need to do so, if you need a roof over your head, for instance, if you've, if you've been wanting to buy a house for, you know, however long, and that opportunity arises because of the profits that you're able to make from crypto, then not financial advice, but that's something you should consider doing. You know, because, okay, you might, you, you might not sell the top. No one sells the top or, you know, very, very few people sell the top. But, you know, selling, selling, taking profits and then investing that into something that you genuinely need or have wanted for a very long time, you know, that is infinite and missing the top, that is infinitely preferable to round tripping it all the way back down again. So your time horizon timeframe is really, really important and every single person is different in some way. And mine will be at the moment, you know, I'm not, I'm not too sure with my, Katie, my wife and I are sort of new, relatively new out here in Dubai. So we sort of settled a bit. So we may look to buy some property here in Dubai, but we may not. I'm still sort of working out my, my particular timeframe and my particular sell prices as well, you know, because that's how I'll look to do it. You know, I will have certain targets for each altcoin and when they reach those targets, that is when I will, you know, I will have some sell orders placed, consider selling, I won't sell everything in one go, most likely. But I haven't worked out those price targets yet, but that is, you know, that's, we're still, because I think we're still a little, a little away from that. But yeah, in terms of your, to answer your main question, Rob, what will it find its way into? It'll kind of, well, I was talking about those sort of hard assets earlier, but it will be very much be what I need at the time. And I will be happy to hold profits in stables for as long as, as long as it's needed. Yeah, excellent. Well said. And then, so like all these things that we just talked about, and I thought I was on the show is that once you're into asset accumulation, you, you're never off this hamster wheel. So it's always, you have assets, you put them into cash, cash sits there for a while, it doesn't sit there forever, you go into other assets, and then you just kind of weave yourself through until you find the perfect equilibrium for what you want to do. And that would lead me to our, pretty much our last question, which is this, now that we talked about, you know, our plan, and we're getting into assets, let's talk about the big thing, taxes. No one likes to talk about taxes. I like to talk about taxes because they scared the hell out of me. So how do you guys deal with your taxes when you're going to sell this? What's the strategy? And is there any, anything that you use? Do you use like a spreadsheet, use like a lawyer, a CPA, software, or what? And whoever wants to take this one can just jump on in. I just use a CPA. CPA. I mean, living in the United States, if you're going to sell your Bitcoin, you have it, you should have a pretty good reason to sell it if you're going to be paying short-term capital gains. So I typically try to hold whatever I have for at least a year because otherwise, you know, think about it like this, like, you know, if you sell your Bitcoin and then you buy it back for 20% less, but you're paying like, I don't know, like 35% taxes or something on the prop, like it just, it has to be worthwhile, right? I mean, and I think that's the thing to remember is that you do have to pay the pay taxes and actually what a lot of, what happens to a lot of people and just kind of like a fair warning for people, what often happens in these sort of in the, in the bubble mania phases is that people will, they will make a lot of money and they will book those profits, meaning they have to pay taxes on those trades. And then the following year, they'll lose everything and the market crashes before they get to pay their, before they actually have to pay the tax man, right? So like that's an issue because then they won't have the money. That's what happened in 2017, 2018, if people remember is that like a lot of people made money in 2017, but they continued to gamble it in 2018 and then they lost a lot of it, but they still had to pay taxes on what they made in 2017. And so that was a way that a lot of people, I think, got burned. So you just have to remember that taxes are a very important part. And yeah, if you're going to make the trade, it theoretically should be worthwhile to make from a tax point of view. Well said. So CPA guy, what do you do over there? CPA as well, lawyer, spreadsheet, software? It's even simpler, Rob. We don't pay tax in Dubai. That's what it was. However, okay, here's a question for you guy though. But if you don't pay taxes, I know you had crypto from a long time ago. So when you brought those over to Dubai, is that tax as well? Because it's before your Dubai residency? Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of it depends on whether I've, you know, whether I've sold that, whether I've realized that game. Right. And, you know, most of the vast majority of the crypto that I hold is, you know, I've been, or certainly, you know, because most of my portfolio is BTC and ETH. True, true, true. Most of that I've held for a very long time. I mean, I do use, I do use a spreadsheet and I do have, I use Coinly, that's Coinly with a K for portfolio tracking. And they also have a tax, you know, tax software as well, which I gather is pretty good. I mean, I would say to people, like, you know, from experience of paying taxes back in the UK, I think if you're dealing with a reasonable amount of crypto, this goes back to what we were talking about, you know, the idea of time, you know, time is an asset that you can't make more of. Right. So if you have, you know, if you have an accountant who can do this stuff for you, I would, and you can afford to pay them, I recommend doing that because, you know, spending time on crypto taxes. I mean, it's a, it's a nightmare as many, many people will know. So, you know, if it's something that you can afford, I think it's, I think it's well, it's money well spent because it's, it's time. Time. But yeah, you need to be, you need to be pretty meticulous and it's, it's hard, you know. I mean, some people, I mean, I'm not even, I'm not even in any way degenerate when compared to some of the people out there. When you consider all the people airdrop farming and, you know, doing sort of weird voodoo in DeFi and buying and setting, you know, trading dozens of times a day, how they keep track of it, I don't know. I mean, you know, keep it as simple as you can and ideally move to a jurisdiction where you don't have to pay personal income tax. I've got to agree with you on that one. So that would, so for me, like people ask me the same question, like, why do you always talk about taxes because you're in Puerto Rico? Don't you pay no capital gain tax? That is true. Unfortunately, all the crypto that I brought with me in 2021, I have to pay capital gains taxes on that. Now it's long-term capital gains, but I'm going to need something to, you know, move that, move that forward. Now there was one thing someone said this, Fandom says, tracker shill from Dan and coming and I will not disappoint. So first of all, a guy had a good one with Coinly crypto tax report on 20 minutes. I always talk about coin ledger where I say it takes me 30 minutes. That's a pretty good one. But yeah, this will be the third year I use them straight. They have a portfolio tracking that's free so you can put all your information in and it'll tell you like, here's your capital gains, here's how much you're up, here's how much you're down. And that part is free. Now for both of these things, everything we talked about, I don't think you guys need those if you've done like 10 or 20 trades. Or if you've done a ton of trades, then maybe you want to take a look at something like that and to make your life easier. But that's it for today, everybody. So a lot of information, a short amount of time, well, 45 minutes or so. But again, I want to thank these two guys for coming on. I appreciate it, especially the difference of opinions, especially how we're doing things. But now we'll open it up for a little Q&A. But if you got to take off, take off, thanks for stopping by, hit the like and subscribing the way out. Let's go to the Q&A. I didn't, this isn't a question, but I thought it was interesting. I'm at the airport here in Newark, New Jersey, and there's ads all over the place for Grayscale, GBTC. I don't know if you guys have heard this. I don't know if you guys have gotten any more calls. I've gotten calls from family, gotten calls from old friends I haven't talked to in a while about should I buy Bitcoin, should I buy this? I don't know what you guys have gone through. My dad has been asking about it because he bought at 49. I'm in profit, I believe. Not financial advice, dad. This is a big indicator for me about where we are in the cycle and how close we are to a raging bull market is when people who haven't shown any interest in crypto whatsoever over the past few years start sliding into your DMs and what have you, and that, apart from my dad, that is not happening for me. That's why I think we're still early in this bull market. Yeah, I think we're still going to get that. Here's another question, it's interesting, from meme, if stables are paying the dollar, why hold in stables? Why just put in the dollar? It's just that I want to control the keys or is there other value to doing everything in stables? What's your thoughts on this? For me, it's mostly, yeah, I can hold the keys, I can take them into my personal wallet. If I need to, I can cash them out into Fiat, but also it means that I have the opportunity, if I see something dip that I want to buy, it's relatively easy to move back in and swoop. Yeah, and I trust certain stables a lot more than I did one, two, three years ago. Self-custody is the important aspect of that. If you're leaving stables on an exchange or whatever, then that's not for me. Ben, what do you, when you sell, is it right to cash or stables? It used to be cash, or sorry, it used to be stables in private cycles, but now I just go to cash if I'm just going to Fiat or cash equivalent. I'm not too optimist. I hope that all these stable coins survive, but watching everything that happened back in 2022 with some of those stable coins and watching, what was it, the Luna one? Yeah, fortunately, I didn't even hold any of that one, but I just, I don't, for what I want in the control over, I'll just have this Bitcoin and beyond that, I'll just keep it in cash and just put it in a money market account rather than keep it in stables. I think that one of the reasons, at least last cycle that it made sense to keep some in stables was because you could go, you could get yield for it, right? You could get a decent yield that was like 5%, 6%, but that was when the risk-free rate was at basically 0%. With your cash, you couldn't get anything, but now you can get 5% to 5.5% with US dollars, which is not something that you could get four years ago. I think that for me, it's still, I'll stick mostly with cash for now in terms of overstable coins. It's a thing that I didn't, I didn't really think about because we always talk about how we learned a lesson for the FTX is the voyage of the Celsius and the block flies to go into cold storage, but there's a lesson there for Luna and its stable coin that anything can go at any moment and even the stables. It's a good thing to remember. Rob, even USDC got lost its peg for a little while and it regained it. The market cap of that one is going back up and I hope that it goes on to be a large player, but I think the scary part was that there have to have been some people that sold their USDC when it was off the peg because they were fearful that it was going to go to zero because they just watched the one with Luna, like the UST or whatever, they watched that one collapse. That is something I don't ever want to put myself in the position of having all my dollars in a stable coin, watching it lose the peg and then being like, wait, do I sell it for a 10% haircut and say, all right, well, at least I got some money back or do I wait it out and just really hope it doesn't go to zero. I think after watching, and by the way, I got out of stable coins in February or March of 2022 before all that stable coin drama happened, but it did show me that I never want to put myself in that position. And again, I mean, I know during good times, like we've been and no one cares about that stuff, but when the market, when markets turn and we worry about that stuff, I don't want to have to think about is it safe? I think it's relatively safer in other ways than stable. Yeah, and that would, yeah, it's the same thing, but and of course, hearing that people will talk about, well, banks can fail and we've seen this. Yeah, but they're also FDIC insured up to a certain amount. And if you spread it out enough, I mean, it's still insured. Yeah, you're right. In America. In America, yeah, that's fair. Yeah, but then like, like, because I always say the same thing, which is don't forget to take profits. And then people remind me, you know, people in Turkey took profits or I'll look, what happened to them? Like, okay, you got a point. So it's like one of those things where I'm like, there's always these little nuances, which is why I kind of appreciate, I actually appreciate my comment section, which is a lot of trolls, but I have an addiction to that. So it's kind of fun. Let's see, John says off ramping to Fiat in the UK as a nightmare. I don't have a problem here in America. Guy, you got any problems over there? And well, you're in the UK and Dubai? Well, yeah, I have not ramped to Fiat in the UK in a very long time. But I do hear it. Yeah, I'm hearing from a lot of people that it's just, it is a nightmare. So I have a lot of sympathy for John there. So far off ramping in the UAE, well, I haven't, I haven't done, in fact, the only off ramping I've done has been to see whether I can offer up. So so far, it's been okay. But because the UAE is on the the fat F gray list, the banks here are subject to some pretty strict rules. So, yeah, that is something that I'm kind of I'm thinking about for the bull market, you know, it's sort of like that that could that could become an issue. And yeah, so it's not it's not entirely straightforward. But so far, I haven't had any problems. But like I say, I've only sort of tested it out. You know, that I remember two or three shows ago, we talked about this. And the question was from Ben about, you know, what what are you guys doing to prepare yourself for the blow off top? And you got a good point, you talked about contacting all of the exchanges to make sure that you have limits set higher than what you presently have, because during the during the massive bull run, they're not going to listen to you because there's too many people. So I guess there's another another wrinkle we should be talking about, which is if you think that you're going to offer up a bunch of your banks, make sure that you contact your banks and go, look, this is what's, you know, this is what's happening. Can I have limits increased before they're like, where the hell did this million dollars come from? Oh, yeah. That was that was a great trade I did on on bonk or whatever. So yeah, it's one of those things. And then last, I think it's worth just do it. Sorry, I think it's worth, you know, everyone at this at this stage, at this stage of the market, like, this is this is kind of boring stuff, you know, getting your exchange accounts sorted, testing all your off ramps and on ramps, etc. But this is this is good stuff to do now, you know, to like you say, you know, get in touch with your bank you if that's possible, try a few test transactions, you know, try on ramping and off ramping, because, you know, you want to make sure that it works, make sure that your exchange accounts, for instance, are, you know, if they need if they require KYC, make sure they're KYC, you know, do all that kind of boring adminny stuff, because like as you as you hinted at Rob, when the when the thing when the markets get really crazy, these exchanges will be overwhelmed. They won't have enough customer support, they, you know, there'll be huge backlogs of people trying to on ramp and off ramp complaints, questions, etc. So you need to make sure that you've done that stuff beforehand. So as you're prepared, and now is as good a time as any. Yeah, well said. Well said. Yeah, if you wait for it to become a problem, then it's hard to solve it. That's the truth. Yeah, 100%. And then, you know, some people say, well, I, you know, I'm not going to give my give my bank information that they don't need. But I got to tell you, everything that I've ever wanted to get done is because I knew somebody somewhere and the bank is no different, especially if you're talking about business loans and things like that. If I know somebody, things get smooth. If I don't, it's a big pain in the ass. Last question. What if a company like Ledger goes bankrupt? How can I pull my crypto out of blockchain? Well, private key works somewhere else as well. And I know, like guy, your favorite cold storage wall, I think is a tracer. Ben, I want to say it's probably a ledger, I'm guessing. Mine's a tandem. But I'm just going to tell everybody that you can, that's not how it works. If the company goes down, your private keys can be imported into any different cold storage device and you can pull it all out. So it doesn't really matter. So I wanted to answer that because concert live asked that question like five times. I want to make sure he didn't flip out. All right, good question. It's a good question. It's a really common question, actually, like, you know, a lot of people have that question. Because I think a lot of new people to crypto, that is a very obvious question to ask that, you know, like, how does it work? But yeah, like, it's great because you don't actually have to have that to access it. Well, it makes sense. And then of course, if everybody's new to this, there's two people you should check out. You got Ben, into the cryptoverse, and you got Guy and his multiple plethora of different channels that are out there. Everything you want to know is right there. But that's it for today, everybody. We're coming up on an hour. So again, Ben Guy, thanks for stopping by. Appreciate it. And everybody that watched the video, thanks so much. Like and subscribe on your way out. And we'll see you next week on Guy's channel, I think. Yeah. All right. See you guys. Thanks, guys.