 Yeah, welcome back to Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel. It's the one o'clock block on a given Tuesday. And this is code green with the regenerative code green Howard Howard Howard wig with Tibet. Thank you so much for joining us today on your show Howard. I'm glad to be the hostess. Okay, we'll leave that in the road. And so let's talk about the subject today. It's about ultraviolet light. In fact, you guys have organized a webinar with an expert in ultraviolet light, and how it, you know, and how it helps dealing with COVID. So the next thing we're going to come back to title the show is the German title properties of ultraviolet light in the time of COVID. And so this fellow is out of New York and you're going to have a 90 minute webinar with him not to see a few days from now or later this week. His name is William Banfless. He's an author of many technical publications regarding ultraviolet light. So why are you doing this Howard. Because I don't know if you've heard yet Jay but we're in the rather troubled times, and especially the hospitality industry is hurting just a little bit, namely 10s and 10s of thousands of people out of work. They weren't doing all that well to begin with now they're getting desperate. Let's get rid of the COVID so that we can bring people back into hotels and get these people back employed again. He's excited me says no no I don't want more jet fuel I don't want more gasoline but somebody's got to do it. So ultraviolet lighting is one of the many many many tools that we can use to get rid of the COVID. We got our wiping. We've got our masks we've got our distancing. This is another very important arrow in the the quiver and literally with those little arrows of light we're going to zap that gosh darned COVID. Let me tell you my own observation to this you know you talk about the tools in the in the kit bag. And this is what was revealed as one early on I would say, February, and you saw ads on on the internet for various kinds of home use ultraviolet devices. And you said that's good. Some of them are expensive. Some of them are not so expensive. They all came from companies you never heard of before. And, and I, you know, I thought that was a good idea. It seems to be a good idea because we know that hospitals use ultraviolet light to sanitize rooms from all kinds of antigens. But you know what it stopped happening. And I don't see those ads anymore and I nobody has been talking about it. And I thought well maybe this is another one of those hydroxychloric with kinds of things where you know it seemed like a good idea and a few people were pushing it, but it actually, it was, it was just poppycock. Now you're saying that no, it's this is a good idea. And there are experts around. I like you to convince me it's a good idea Howard. I'd like you to tell me the science involved in why ultraviolet light will kill antigens especially the coronavirus. Okay, you've you've warmed the cockles of my heart here, Jay. To begin with there are no more ads for UV lighting fixtures, because they are ordered up one side and down the other. I ordered a smallish UV fixture for my own home. That was more at least five weeks ago. The order is confirmed as the way. And I've heard boo since and they did say well, we're just a backorder just a little bit. And I would say they're not back ordered a little bit their back order tremendously. Either that or they're scamming you. There's a that's the other possibility, just thinking in logic here. And what was your. The other possibility is they're scamming you. That could be to could be to accept that it's a rather reputable company that said since you're on that unsavory subject. There is a lot of junk out there. And let me differentiate between hand held devices, obviously a little little things that you scan around. And then there are sort of the industry grade devices and those are made to irradiate all an entire room, say an entire hospital room or an entire hotel room. So our focus is because there's so much junk out there with the hand held stuff. We're just going to focus on the industrial grade, the bigger things and made specifically for room cleansing or larger areas. You know, there was a there was some there was some journalism about this early on again maybe in March, where it reported that in hospital rooms they have been using ultraviolet light and and when they do, whether it's a fixed light or it's a robot light. You got to get out of the room. You can't stay in the room while, while they do this because it has a deleterious effect on human being people. Can you talk about that. There's two types of these industrial grade lights. One are permanently affixed to the walls, the upper portion of walls of rooms, and they direct the light directly under the ceiling, and they're covered such that the human eye the people on the floor, when they look up there they cannot see that light. And therefore you can run it 24 seven. And the theory there is that when there's germs virus in the hospital room, you have air circulation, air conditioning generally with a high what's called a high air change. So that there's a lot of wind turbulence in that room, and all those bad guys go floating towards the ceiling, and boom, they get zapped when they come down they they come down in pieces. So that's one type of fixture. The next is where you install these things in the ceilings, and they automatically turn off when a human being or any any moving object in enters the room. So they're on only during the non occupied hours. Those are the fixed objects. Then you have my personal favorites, the portable objects. They range all the way from sort of small tripod devices that can be lifted from room to room or wheeled from room to room, or you mentioned the robotics that those are the the Tesla's of the industry. And the deal there is, when you turn it on. There's a one minute waiting period giving the employer lots of time to get the heck out of that room. The second they open the door boom, those fixtures go off again. I, and what we're talking about Oh, let this let me back up there's three types of UV lighting UV ultraviolet. The UVA is the longest wavelength, and that degrades our skin case in point UVB gives us sunburn and gives us cancer. And I speak to you you've got, you know, you're a New Yorker, Jay, so you've still got nice skin just the same skin as you had when you were a teenager. Oh, it should only be true but you go right in an hour. Yes, I was out in the sun as a youth and a young man for thousands of hours, and I am the proud recipient of for melanoma operations melanomas the cancer that travels through the lymph system, and dozens of what's it basal cell carcinoma, not not such a bad thing. But anyway, that's UVB and UVA they degrade the scan and if you have get that let that get in your eyes doesn't do your eyes many good it just dries them out it doesn't make you blind. And then there's UVC, and that's what we really want these are very very very narrow little wavelengths, and these are the ones that don't do us human so much bad, or they don't harm us so badly, but they just zap those virus. And so we're concentrating on the UVC. So even if a person was exposed to it, especially briefly. No, no big thing. It's just real. That's really important. That's really important because that's, you know, there was there is a negative thing about ultraviolet and the damage it can do to you. And if we know that UVC is not so damaging. And then we put it up at that level, you know, as it catches the virus that's a circulation level closer to the ceiling. You know, there's nothing to lose and everything to gain there. But you know, talk to me about exactly, if you can exactly what happens with the UV, the ultraviolet light and the virus. What happens there what's the biochemical process. Why is it so effective. It breaks the virus or teeny teeny teeny little creatures and officially not even living organisms, but they do have mass and the waves, especially for the COVID virus, it's 253.7 nanometers and nanometer is a billionth of a meter at exactly that wavelength. When it hits the COVID virus, it breaks it into pieces. And that is not so good for the COVID virus. Literally, that's the exact resonance that causes the causes of virus to disintegrate. So compare that to washing your hands. You know, I say when you wash your hands and use a foamy soap, that soap gets on, you know, this sort of the skin of the virus and deteriorates it. And when that happens, the virus becomes inert. It sort of tears the membrane that surrounds the virus something like that. It's the same thing or a different, you know, this is a different mechanism, it's a different mechanism, you use the word coding soap as a property that actually oil, it's lipid oil. There's lipid oil around the virus and the soap cuts through the lipid oil. Is that happening here with the ultraviolet or is it different. You know, totally, totally different mechanism for the uninitiated lipids is another word for fat. There's a lot of fat in good, good soap, and what the lipids do is actually encase the virus. They smother it, if you will. So it's not going anywhere. And then you wash your hands off and it goes down down the drain. I would point out that soap or virus on your hands is in and of itself, not all that bad because it can enter through your hands. Your skin is a protective mechanism. The danger is that you get your hands up to your mouth, nose or eyes. And that's when the virus enters. You know, we use ultraviolet light instead of the soap. For example, if I run my hand, you know, it's like you go into the public bathroom. They have these devices that blow hot, hot air on your hands and saves them the towel costs of the paper. If you run your hand or included in that device is an ultraviolet lamp. Will you run your hand to dry it off, but at the same time, your hand is subject to the ultraviolet. And therefore it's clean not only by the by the heat and the hot air is coming out of that device but also by the ultraviolet wouldn't that work. Can't this to be a J. Wow. That's brilliant deduction, except that even the UVC does have a deleterious deleterious effect on your skin, not nearly as bad as the A or the B but some some bad effect it dries out the skin. Brief times, you're absolutely right. You would decontaminate your hands or whatever the, you could put your arms under there to decontaminate your arms. Yeah, that would, that would really be better. I mean, I'd take the risk to my skin if you told me that it was the ultraviolet C. But the other question that you really haven't answered well you maybe you have is so so now we have the this the light penetrates some part of the virus and it destroys it. What is it to it burns it up. Is that what happens. No, it disintegrates it breaks it into pieces. And then the length is such that when it strikes it literally causes a virus to explode I've seen the word explode use in different studies. Okay, well taking that and taking also the fact that when this first came up. The report was that hospitals had been using this in one form or another, before, before coronavirus. And I thought to myself, okay, well that that is a big solution about sterilizing areas in hospitals, sterilizing areas in office, you know, venues and sterilizing things at home. And that was, let's see March, April, May, we're in June we're going into July. Why haven't we heard about this. We've heard about hydroxychloroquine, which doesn't do anything for you and could hurt you. We haven't heard, boom, may I say that BOO we haven't heard boo about ultraviolet light from the White House the CDC the NIH, the WHO, only from Howard Wigg we hear it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I've been hanging around you so long. This is why I got so smart. President did mention UV. And he recommended putting UV. In your body. Yes. You shine it down your gullet or something. Yes. So, fortunately, his advisors called him off of that one. Very quickly. But if you know, looking back just retrospectively if we know, then what we know now say in March or even February. We say, look, you know, let's, let's get together here and let's have an approved model for hospitals, and certainly for business premises and for home, wherever you are, whether you whatever portal you pass through, let's see if we can get you to go and whatever, whatever the droplets may be, let's see if we can blow up the virus with some, you know, ultraviolet C, close to the ceiling less, you know, because the cost of that is peanuts compared to the costs we are paying now. But nobody's done that. Nobody's done that except the hospitals that were doing it before. And we haven't heard much about it actually we have not heard. So your next assignment Jay, should you choose to say yes to it is to transform Detroit from whatever Detroit is making right now to making UV light fixtures. Just 24 seven shifts just churn them out by the 10s and 10s of thousands. This will be made in America product. Incidentally, the big fixtures that I've been studying are all made in America. So let's get those out the door. The same way we got tanks and jeeps and everything out during the world war two. I know you're serious when you say that because I would be serious if I was saying that. And what I don't understand is why it hasn't happened. And we had the Defense Production Act which he did not activate. It wasn't focused on this at all. And if the hospital is using it they're sort of keeping it to themselves. I don't know a single business establishment that has adopted this. The, the stuff I saw on the internet look like it was a toy. And so here we are having lost this huge opportunity. I would have saved a lot of lives. Am I right? Yeah, yeah, and saved a lot of dollars. Imagine if the hotel industry locally glommed on to this really early in the game and when they placed orders those orders would come through quickly. They can have portable units going in and these are the inexpensive ones cost $89,000 and they're on tripods and you take this thing and it just can takes a train custodian to do this. Put it into room A, close the door, let it go for 30 minutes. It totally, totally sterilizes that whole room. Open the door like goes off, put it into room B, room C, room D. One person could service 14 of hotel rooms in one shift. And then the hotel could say we have sterilized our rooms, virtually COVID free and ditto with the retail shops in Waikiki or whatever ditto with the restaurants. All sterilizing and advertising the heck out of that that would bring tourists back like mad and it would create a much, much, much safer environment for them. Yeah, we'd be branding the state as going beyond the call of using the science and using the technology and spending the money and taking, you know, taking these Herculean steps. But you know one question about the say the hotel room, okay, suppose there's some virus, you know, under under the blanket, they're hiding under the blanket. And you bring this device in and you shine it all around the room for for half an hour but the virus is under the blanket. And ordinary lights not going to get there. It's a dark shadowy place under the blanket. Is the ultraviolet light going to get to how can you say that you've sterilized the whole room when you haven't gotten underneath things where light doesn't go. Or underneath chairs underneath beds. Jay a scientist you should be good question. So the areas that are not directly radiated it's a radiative force that zaps the virus. You, there's still some leftover, but there's the concept of dose and dose means refers to the intensity of the virus that comes after you. If only 1000 virus come after you your immune system could take care of it like nothing. If a million virus come after you has a very good chance of overwhelming you and putting you in the hospital. So what the UV light does is eradicate and this is right on the manufacturer's literature and it's carefully carefully studied I looked at so many studies, many 9.9% of the virus that are in that room do get eradicated. Hence, if there's still some leftover under the sheets or whatever their numbers are very small and the immune system, the dosage is very small, the immune system can take care of them very very easily. What about using mirrors to bounce the light back from the floor say to the bottom of the bed or to places where light would not necessarily fall. You're talking about you must have been a scientist in your previous life, you're talking now about back scatter and back scatter refers to the fact that the this light is comprised of photons and photons can go bouncing around like ping pong balls. If they hit a reflector surface and the ideal surface would be mirrors, they bounce back, say it hits a mirror by a bed, the photons go under the bed and zap the virus there with almost the same effectiveness as the direct force of the photon in the first place. Howard is brilliant. And the question lingers. Why haven't we done this so far. Why hasn't the CDC said boo about it. Why, why has Dr. Fauci not said a word. It seems to me like sterilization is the answer to an epidemic or at least a substantial weapon. The cost. You said before that in the hospital or the hotel setting, you know for a given unit it would cost what did you say $8 or $9,000. Yeah, that's a lot of bread. And if you want to if you want to populate the whole hospital with these devices, it's good or hotels going to cost you a bunch of money. Is that what's holding this up. It's not part of it but the cost really isn't that great the return on investment for a hospital to have these devices where, as you know, the main cause of sickness in the nation is being in a hospital. So they do everything they can to sterilize rooms. When they spend some of these devices cost over $100,000. You, if you've prevented 10 sicknesses from occurring because of these being in here you paid for that device many times over ditto a hotel room, you can could get a device for as little as $8 or $9,000. You do 14 rooms in one shift, you get 14 couples going into their 150 and I did it and you paid for this device in the first night or so. Nothing about senior facilities and prisons. And, you know, who knows what all these places where you have high concentration of virus. Few of those things could not only save lives but save the economy what's that worth what's it worth to restore our tourism, at least part of them, and have people believe in us again as a safe place. Okay, well, I'm happy to hear that but I have a question that was, you know, are there other Howard wigs elsewhere. Are there other states other other d beds and other states who are thinking about this or inviting this guy William Banff leth from New York where he's from to come out and talk to them. Are you part of a movement or is it trust you guys. It seems to be the Howard and Jay show so far. I'll go with that. No, we had at last count we had 180 people already signed up for the webinar. And that was 24 hours ago. And I can you how many can you accommodate that it's a Hawaii energy zoom program so we kind of overwhelm them a couple webinars ago. I mean we're well above 100 so they increase their capacity I think they can go up to 1000 or so now. Well that's that's encouraging but you know what this is a sort of timeless I shouldn't say timeless but relatively speaking this is time I don't have to watch this live. I can watch a video of this so the big question Howard is for those people who you know are not going to be available who don't find out about it. Are they going to be able to see the video of this later big question. Absolutely yeah yeah this is being paid with you you you're you're paying for it Jay. As you're part of your electricity bill goes to Hawaii energy and Hawaii enter any and we're state government of course we have to make all of our productions public. So it'll go into the Hawaii energy office website and then if anybody else who wants the website I'll I'm going to offer it and the president of the local chapter of yes illuminating engineering society, and I'm going to offer it to other yes chapters as well. I thought that would include think tech wouldn't it I mean we could put it on our stream. And people would have the benefit there we can put a link to it on our website. I mean I think we have to get the word out to any place which has communal activity, which has a high concentration of people. Any indoor place where droplets can can spread the virus. It's going to be a really important part about about stopping the curve. I mean actually stopping the curve. Yeah, and just amazes me I'm didn't. That's the government. I mean you are the government but there's a government know to the leaders of our, you know, health organizations know about to. I hope Bruce Anderson is going to watch this. I hope. I think the president of governor green is going to watch this with Josh green we need to have them all know about it, because a dollar spent on this is a dollar spent in time. A dollar spent on this can have huge rewards. Yeah, and make us feel safe Wow. And the price of the webinar is right also. The viewers don't have to bother paying for it. Well, so he's not coming he's just, he's not coming he's just going to do the webinar from wherever he is that from yeah he teaches he's a professor at Penn State University. Yeah. Now is there a website or someplace out there where we can look right now and read up on this and then use our own thought process to you know validated effectiveness. I suppose I suppose I've gotten into the mode of not not taking any advice unless I can verify it by my own analysis where where can I find out more hours. I wish I had the address in front of me but the illuminating engineering society had a three hour webinar recently on this very topic. I think I wouldn't be out of place to name the manufacturers since there's only two of them in America. One is called Puro P U R O, and they certainly have good websites and they have good videos also Oh incidentally, they're also using in your own New York City. Jay, the New York trend trends and authority is vaporizing the co vid in their subway trains. See somebody somebody is following the action here. Yeah, yeah. What's what's the second one do you recall the name of the other Puro P U R O the other is Zenon X E N O and no no no z next X E N E N. Okay, well I'm sure it can be. I'm sure people can find it on the internet do a research on and they do videos also. Okay, so we may have a really important solution here in this show and I and I hope that the people you know who can do something about it in the government and in industry will see this and understand it and follow up on it. But the question is you and your of your order that was five weeks ago. What are you going to do about it. I mean you want you want to have your own home safe to. You know, you're going to do anything more than wait wait on this. This this mail order situation which is not very promising. Are you going to do something else. Well, can you suggest something maybe I can go to Home Depot and buy. I think they're probably sold out. And that that product probably wouldn't be as good as the product that I that I ordered. It's probably worth looking on Amazon or any number of other mail order houses and and seeing what they have to offer and who's making and whether it's those companies you mentioned somebody else. It's probably worthwhile of doing some research on your own about exactly how it works what kind of devices are most effective. There's a whole new world out there because right now. We do have an escalating curve right now as other states. We should be worried about the fact that you know reopening has created a resurgence, and we have to find whatever, whatever helps and this could be a very important to really important. It's not the silver bullet but it's a really important bullet out there. Well, thank you, Howard. This has been a great discussion very valuable very important, and I look forward to talking with you again soon good luck on the webinar. And I would like to get the link to it if you if you think of it. And we'll put it. Definitely think of it. Thank you.