 I'll seal the breakfast on PLOS TV Africa. Many thanks for being with us this morning. We head straight to our second conversation now. We'll be looking at the issue of ASU and the issue of the Drain Brain. The academic staff of the University have raised the alarm over the exodus of lecturers from the nation's universities for greener pastures abroad. The union attributed the development to the federal government's poor treatment of its members, which is said had many to venture into, you know, other sources of livelihood. Now, and according to the president of the association, Professor Emmanuel Osodoque, many lecturers have taken to farming and all the economic activities. While a large number have left the country, the chairman of ASU, University of Lagos branch, Dr. Delia Shiro, revealed that more than 70% of the brightest brains in the academia had left the country, adding that the government had been so disrespectful and insensitive to scholars. The chairman of ASU, University of Uyo Chapter, Dr. Happiness Udoque confirmed that some lecturers had left the system. Meanwhile, you have some lecturers at the Obathemia World University, Leifem, the Federal University of Agriculture, and the OOU, Ogun State had similar lecturers resigning and relocating abroad. Now, the story or the conversation is almost endless. But this morning, we just look at all of these issues now. We talked that this was just limited to, you know, the medical sector, you know, the medical doctors and the brain drain, but we might just be experiencing, you know, that drifted movement in the academic sector as well, following the long strike. We have a guest joining us this morning, Professor Abyola Awosike. She's an educationalist. Professor Abyola Awosica, an educationalist here in Lagos, joining us. Good morning. Thank you for joining us. We also have Professor Sani Fagi joining the conversation as well. Good morning. All right. So I set up with Professor Abyola. What are your thoughts now? The brain drain of our lecturers. Well, we can't tell anyone not to go anywhere. If they want to leave, there's nothing you can do to stop them. There's a lot that is wrong with our educational system, especially the tertiary education. We do not have enough universities. We put jam in place to select the best for the existing universities. Right now, we have two million Nigerians in our universities, not up to one percent, maybe just one percent of our population. We want economic development. If we want economic development, we need at least 10 percent of our young people in the educational pipeline so that they will be out there at the right time to take this country to the next level. And we're not even paying attention to that. We cannot afford the system that we are running. For every student that gets admission into our universities, they are being subsidized by those students who could not gain admission. So we're not even close to the conversation as soon as having with the government is not the conversation they should be having. And so we're not going to keep our brains at this stage. And even if we give them the money that they want now, we would still have the same problem. We had ASUS strike 35 years ago, ASUS strike 20 years ago, ASUS strike 10 years ago, ASUS strike now. How are we resolving our problems? I think we're probably just taking the baby steps by saying, let's go to court because there is no way that we can resolve this. ASUS is not going to budge. The federal government is saying this is how much money I have. ASUS is saying this is not enough. So the only thing we can do is to let the courts decide. In other parts of the world, they don't go on strike like this. And yet they have their issues resolved. So we're going to be up a creek without a paddle with all of these brains living in Nigeria. And yet we're not going to have a problem solved at all. All right. Thank you, Professor Abeola Oshika. Let's go to Professor Fagge. Professor Fagge, do you think, and it's quite interesting we have two professors on the program this morning, I think. We'll draw from the founder of Knowledge. But do you think, Professor Fagge, that the courts are the way to go about this? No, I don't think that is the right way. Friendly is a reality. And it seems that those who are concerned with it are not much interested in resolving the problem. So that is why we are where we are now. And we fail to realize or to see the implications and the consequences of this drain. Because at the same goes, there is no nation that develops above its level of education. Here in Nigeria, we seem to take education generally. And especially the tertiary education very, very lightly. We don't care. The people in power don't seem to care about it. So that is why we are having this problem. So going to courts, I don't think it will resolve the problem. On the contrary, it will seem to compound and complicate the whole process. And if care is not taken, perhaps it may even lead to the embarrassment of the government for taking the case there. Because they are fully aware of the fact that this tertiary is necessary. And it is uncalled for. And it is something that could have been ended within weeks. But for some reasons, those in power decided to drag it unnecessarily. And they seem not to care much about the implications of the process. So I don't think what we are seeing now and the way we are attempting to address it will resolve the problem. All right then. Let's have Professor Awoshika coming down. Do you think that the concerns of ASU are really valid? I mean, we're looking at this consensus of raise over time, revitalization, salary increase and what have you. Do you think that the concerns are valid? Well, whether we say it's valid or not, those are their concerns. Now, where in the world do you go to school for 25,000 a year? Where in the world do you get, apart from countries with smaller population, where in the world do you go to school for 25,000 a year? And when they say they want to increase it to 75,000 or 100,000, the students go on strike. The lecturers support them. We do not have a system that works until we charge the right price for higher education. Tertiary education, I beg to say, and I apologize because I was on TV at some point and I committed on a strike that was on and I supported the government, not paying them for what they did not do. And someone took me up when I got to a conference and really lambasted me and that's fine. But at the cost of someone being offended, we are not paying. Tertiary education is not for everybody. Yes, we all are children education. By the time they finish in primary, they can speak English properly, they can do maths, they can so by the time they finish second grade school, they're set for life. Now, what we want to do with tertiary is to find those who want to go that route and encourage them to go that route. Those who want to go for not so technical, I mean those who want to go to technical route, we help them to go to technical route. At the end, we have a whole robust citizenry but now only wants to go to university. Because of time, I'll go over to Professor Sage to just tell us what he thinks about what you said in a few seconds. Professor, we don't have too much time, but can't Nigeria, some have argued that Nigeria can afford as an all-producing country to subsidize education for its citizens along the lines of world countries like Germany, Brazil, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Greece, Austria, Czech Republic, Norway and France are doing for tertiary students. Professor Faggy, very shortly please. Yeah, I think we have it and the way we are making it is too elitist. We think those because we have made it, then other Nigerians will not make it. I'm not saying everybody must get tertiary education, but the fact is that even our own constitution, you go back and see when you go to the fundamental principle of the state education is there and it has been made clear that from primary up to tertiary and even other education is supposed to be free. So if those people who are advocating that Nigerians should not have it, they should go and change the constitution. It is not also that makes it that. Professor Sage Faggy. The constitution that provides a right of Nigerians and so we shouldn't sit down and say that Nigerians should not have it just because we have it. Thank you, Professor Osani. We have to go now for the winter time. We appreciate your insight. Thank you so much, Professor Biola Awoshiki. Thank you so much as well for being part of the show. Thank you. Thank you. All right, it's been quite interesting, an episode of the breakfast with Professor Biola Awoshika and of course Professor Sange Faggy. Let's see if we have two professors on the program. Please follow us online, plus if you have care on all platforms and of course YouTube, plus if you have care, plus if you have care lifestyle. My name is Kofi Bartels. And I am Mesa Bukul. Many thanks for watching.