 Good morning. Welcome. What a great way to start today speaking about the view from Russia and the global science agenda. My name is Mariette DiCristina. I'm the editor-in-chief of Scientific American Magazine which actually has had a presence in Russian in translated form in the past 30 years. I had a great privilege about a few years ago in 2011. I got to visit Moscow for the first time in my life and I hope I have that pleasure again sometime. And I was really, really struck actually by the passion of the Russians that I met about their science and about the many contributions they've made and about the ones that they will make. And so I want to share that with you. Actually what that experience did was it inspired for me a desire to create a global view in Scientific American every year about science generally. So I'm very excited to hear about Russian science today. Today our mission for this panel is to discuss how Russian science is poised to reshape the global innovation system. And we have a wonderful set of panelists around me. I hope you can bear with the round structure. At times I'm going to ask her if anybody has questions and I'll do my best to look behind me but maybe the other panelists can help as well. I'd like to introduce them briefly to you and then hear their initial thoughts about this important question and how Russian science is poised to drive innovation forward. Straight across from me is Valerie Fokin who is Professor of the University of Southern California in the United States and you also have an appointment in Moscow as well. Thank you. And then Andrey Forsenko next to me is an aide to the president of the Russian Federation. Artem Oganov across from me here is Professor of Skolkovo Institute of Science and Technology. Also a professor at the Russian Academy of Sciences in the Russian Federation and also a professor at Stony Brook. I'm not sure when you have time to sleep but I'm impressed with all of those. And I'm delighted also to have here Anton Shingara of Kopersky Lab who will speak to us about many of the practical areas of how Russian science can help advance innovation. So I hope it's okay with you Professor Forsenko if you might start us off with some of your thoughts about how Russian science is ready to help drive innovation. All the many changes that you've made. It's very important that the Russian scientists today and the Russian science today could be regarded from two perspectives. First of all it's these research that is done in Russia and also research that is done by the Russian scientists around the world. And so what's being done in Russia the scale of what's being done in Russia is indicative of the Russian economy that right now is not the biggest. Then at least the contribution of Russian science to the global innovation is way more important. Many inventions that are done in the world they draw on the Russian science. If we only could think of different colliders the idea of the colliders really belongs to the Russian scientists. We can remember one of the latest installations the mega science. It's the laser. Also Russian scientists who have done this. Maybe my colleagues could say more on that topic because they represent the Russian world to the global science. But I should mention that in Russia today the contribution of our scientists only keeps growing. What's important is that in the last 10 years in Russia we have an increased proportion of the young Russian scientists. And here the number of young scientists under 40 years old for them the new infrastructure is being developed. And the equipment in Russia right now has increased that is less than 5 years old. Infrastructure is extremely important. So we will definitely continue this conversation. But today we're not just an equal player in the world but we're aspiring to be the leader in this domain. Thank you. I think that it seems like a good idea to have a little bit of context for you know being you know moving forward as a leading player in the world. Artem you and I were speaking yesterday about the great history of Russian science and I think that context might be nice to hear about here. Yes. I think Russians are very good let's say second players. Russians easily catch up and become leaders where they were not present before. I would even start from the foundation of Russia actually because Russia started when they imported Vikings. They invited Vikings from abroad. Russians who were never present for example on sea became first class pirates in the beginning of the history and then Russians who never had a centralized state got a centralized state work from Vikings and they went on to become the largest country in human history and that is quite an achievement I think. And then for many centuries Russia did not have its own science until the beginning of the 18th century when Peter imported once again top level academics from Europe mostly Germany. That's the creation of Russian Academy of Sciences and it took only about a century or so until Russia produced top level own scientists actually less than century about half a century. Let me remind you that Leonard Euler probably the greatest mathematician of all times. He worked most of his career in Russia and let me remind you that the greatest discovery in chemical science that will ever be made was made by Mendelev and native Russian. So this habit of Russians importing some good stuff from abroad and then developing it to perfection is something I think innate to Russian mentality Russian culture. It's not just copying it's really perfecting and bringing things to their logical limit. I would say that Russians are actually as far as I understand invented brain drain. So when Peter the Great systematically imported top brains from Europe that was the first case of brain drain in human history as far as I know which was then even enhanced by Catherine the Great who imported these people on really really large scale. By the way maybe you have heard of this that in the year 1796 Russian army well it's not exactly science Russian army declined an application from one young French lieutenant who wanted to be a captain in the Russian army. His name was Napoleon. So you can see the extent of brain drain and not only talent brain that Russia had in the 18th century and then Russia became a prime victim of brain drain having lost majority of its top level scientists and now it's trying to regain that lost talent and I think it's doing it rather successfully although we're just in the beginning. I think you've hit on a really important point which is how how collaborative and international science is by its nature. Sometimes the drain is flowing in your direction sometimes it's not flowing in your direction and part of how we make science succeed wherever we are is what we do to foster it and you know on that that international piece reminds me of you because you're currently working in Southern California and yet have many collaborations across maybe you could speak to those. That's one thing about the science which has always been true and I'm not going to tell you any secrets if I say that even in the toughest times in the 50s, 60s, 70s, science and cultural exchanges was the channel which always remained open and which always was sustained between the East and the West and whatever countries were involved I'm not even talking about specifically about Russia also with Union at that time and the United States. So in today's world science is global and international by definition as well not only because scientists are exchanging ideas but because we are facing the same problems. The issues of bacterial viral infections, the issues of the feedstock they don't have borders so that now they cross the borders and the same thing when we are talking about energy when we are talking about pollution those are global problems which we are trying to address in all countries in different ways and what used to be and to some extent still remains of course the question of national security and national identity does apply to science but in reality we are at the age where it's human identity and our security as a humanity on this planet where we need to work together and science is a prime example I think of that. So yes I do have my main appointment at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles. A few years ago I started a laboratory at Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology at the same time when Artem started his lab there working under the support of the so-called mega grant program which was a significant investment for about three years by the Ministry of Science and Education and the Russian government. Those initiatives are limited but there are obviously some very successful examples some of them don't pan out but in today's world it's much easier to collaborate, it's much easier to communicate and it's just the second nature. This time when you hear that somebody is working between the continents it doesn't cause well not eyes wide open and raised eyebrows that this is probably not the most effective efficient way of doing things. In fact it is and we can capitalize on both ends whether it's on the human capital, whether it's on the infrastructure and training young scientists from around the world I think is a responsibility of the faculty of the professors of the industrial collaborators as well because we need to think about them more as well now they are indeed our future and I'm by no means an old person but still it's I'm thinking about the 15, 17, 20 year olds the ones who will be doing the science and moving us forward in the next 10, 15, 20 years. So you've raised a number of really good practical issues is that the world's problems don't have borders and yet we have a lot of pride in perhaps the things we're doing in our own home nations and that brings me to you for the perspective on how science can help us with some of our practical issues. Could you speak to that? Yeah, I'm not a scientist, I'm not smart enough to become a scientist so I'll talk about more practical aspects of closeness to Russian scientists. Our company is 20 years old this year. We've been successful for the last 10 years globally, mostly Europe and United States and the main reason of our success is that we have access to brilliant, most talented software engineers who live in Russia. So our R&D is still in Russia and we don't have any reasons to move it because Russian software engineers are one of the best and the reason why they are one of the best is this is 300 years of traditions of mathematical education. So for IT, for software engineering, math is a basic subject and in Russia you can find thousands of really talented mathematicians who later can become software developers. And this is our main competitive advantage. It's not easy to be the company with Russian origins to fight on a global market and to fight on a very high competitive global market which is IT and cybersecurity. And as I said, the main reason is access to unique engineers and I completely agree there is no Russian market or US market or Israeli market, it's all international. And many, so now we can find software developers with Russian origin in many countries around the world. In Israel it's almost half of IT sectors speaks Russian and thanks to 300 years of education. I think all of us could do with a little bit more mathematics. I know I was one of those people and certainly still value it very much. I think it would be good if we could to talk a little bit about some of the reforms. We've touched on mega grants for instance and some of the educational things. Could you talk to us about some of the things you put into place? First, I would like to react to what Artem has said. When he said that, I just remembered the second in the game. Once Herbert Karajan was asked how, what he thinks about the great violinist David Oystrov. He said definitely he's the second violin in the world and he was asked who was the first and he said, oh there are many of them. In this sense, maybe it's not too bad to be the second after all. You know, even to stay the second, but especially to be the first. We need to understand that the world is changing. And in this world, yesterday I spoke to my colleagues about this. In this world today we're facing a big danger. That we lose intellectual diversity. So we're very anxious about maintaining the biological diversity, but we seem to care much less about the intellectual diversity. Russian science was original in many ways and this originality gives and used to give so much to the world. Globalization is not always good. Sometimes it diminishes the differences and sometimes it removes the individuality. So in order to maintain this individuality, we need to keep our centers of excellence and keep their specific peculiarities. And for this knowledge, for this excellence, to become something that is shared in the world, we need to build more effective communication systems. Those programs that we have today, they are trying to make these things possible. Today Russia is one of the biggest sponsors of creating the research infrastructure in Europe. In the last 10 years we have invested over 1.5 billion euros into building equipment in Europe, in Germany, in France, in Switzerland. Your journal has published a lot on the collider and not only about it. And we know just how important that is for the international community to develop this global infrastructure. So our scientists are working on all of them and they carry this cultural code in this equipment. I'm not even talking about the collider and other inventions are ideas of the Russian scientists. At the same time, what's important to us is that not only our fellow Russians remain in Russia, but we're also keen to bring global minds into Russia and pass their experience on to Russian young scientists. The science could not be closed. Valery said that even in the most difficult times the exchange always remained. And it was not only done through publications, but also just direct communication. The Nobel laureate, Joris Alferov from Russia, he has really received this Nobel Prize, probably because he was very successful as an intern in the United States because he had this opportunity. So such experiences like mega grants that we're running when we invite the scientists, we help them, we give them conditions to create when we give them money and resources and we invest money to the industry so that they could attract research institutions for R&D and we don't always give money just to the Russian industry, but global industries, anybody who is willing to develop global science right now, we have major organizational restructuring in the university sector in science. It doesn't always lead to great enthusiasm from the scientists side. People are conservative and scientists are also people. At the same time we understand that today in a fast-changing world we cannot stand still. Science could not be a frozen institution in such a fast-changing world. So we are trying to keep track of that. Thank you. So in this first section we've heard a number of really interesting ideas and important ideas about science as a global entity and Russia as a country with a lot to offer and a lot that's going on. We talked about importing talent from abroad and science from abroad and then developing it to a level of perfection which I love the idea of that because science itself is always iterating. There are always questions we have that we continue to pursue. We talked about global issues having global problems and approaching them in practical ways. We talked about the importance of fostering intellectual diversity, not just biodiversity, which I like the sound of, that globalization itself while it's good in many ways, we sometimes run the risk of losing our individual specialness and I think that's an important thing to remember for those of us who are in science also very globally minded but also important to be special ourselves and for our countries that Russia is a large sponsor of research. I heard 1.5 billion euros invested not just in Russia but elsewhere to support labs in other countries including Germany, including Switzerland and others and that at the same time we are keen to bring global minds into Russia to exchange ideas not only through publications but through personal means which I think is great as well. Although it is much easier now to collaborate over long distances through digital media and other things there is something nice about connecting personally and that we above all in science need to keep adapting and changing. That makes me wonder if I have a number of other questions that I will go into in a minute but I thought at this point having heard what you've heard, if anybody in the audience has a fast question or two there are a couple of microphones around be happy to take them and if you would please if you're asking a question please just state your name and where you're from when you do it. Does anyone have a question? This one in the front. So from the scientists perspective I guess if there was something you would say you were thankful for from the Russian government in recent initiatives then what would you say that was a key thing for you in operating in science in Russia and in a way what would be your sort of first request if you could make a request from the government today. I'd be interested to see. I can comment on it a little bit and pass it on to Artem. But this was yours. I think not necessarily from the personal viewpoint the opportunity to try something new and different because all scientists driven by curiosity obviously above all we'd like to try new things. If you are truly inquisitive, truly curious so you want to try something completely out of the box and as was mentioned scientists are human too and we love our comfort zones. The current science is really changing in a way it's converging like it started for 500 years ago there was no physics, biology, math which was separated into the very defined disciplines. It's converging now and I think enabling that in whatever environment whether it's in Russia or somewhere else is an important thing and it's critical now because we really when I'm seeing journals or certain areas called analytical, chemical, biophysiology I wonder whether it's necessary to compartmentalize modern science that much. I think it would be successful but in a few years I will be walking out of my office at the university and I wouldn't care which department people belong to so they adjust my colleagues for working on the same problems and same issues. In Russia or starting it in Russia by no means is easy by no means is absolutely flawless there are many problems and many issues which we needed to overcome but one of the key things there was a period of time especially in the 90s in the beginning of, in the end of the 80s already as well where the Russian science was significantly underfunded so there was a generation of scientists which was effectively lost so in a way starting from a clean slate was a little bit easier and I think it's a very interesting experiment and I'm grateful for having that experiment and that did enable a lot of people to really try their ideas without breaking anything old breaking is a very painful process on the personal and institutional level so that's not number two in there and when you asked about requests any initiative especially in science and especially in high technologies is going to be successful only if it is sustainable over a period of time so science or any scientific project is like a fully loaded 747 taking off you cannot do it on a one mile runway you got to have five years of consistent continued support you do need to have some time yes you need to bend arms and force our government officials who understand that but need to follow certain procedures and protocols to enable that sustained funding over a period of time and commitment that needs to be willful systematic commitment to yes we will see it through and no matter what happens in the next X number of years we will support those particular projects so I think that would be a request and we are working on that so just as a footnote quick footnote I'm also not a part of the president of the Russian American Sciences Association not for profit not politically affiliated organization Russian origin of people who speak Russian language or obtained education in Russia at some point across the world and together as a diaspora we are trying to help bring both the expertise the evaluation of the peer review aspects to Russia and also to push that agenda that we need the sustained support and growth not to survive it needs to develop it needs to expand if I could give my perspective on that you know I am a dreamer I always have dreams and I think this is the reason why I am successful so I would rephrase your question into what kind of dreams I had and I still have for Russian science for Russian science to reach that stage of perfection which it had once had three dreams that came true three dreams of mine for Russian science and one more that remains to come true so many years ago like eight years ago when I was interviewed I said I am dreaming about creation of an institute in Russia which would operate in English which would bring the best talent from all over the world which would be small but more international system and which would bring all the best people no matter Russian or not or Russian speakers or not I just said it to a journalist it was published in a newspaper and a couple of years passed and then I read in a newspaper that such an institute is created I applied for a professorship there I was already a professor in the States and this is an institute of my dreams except one thing I wanted it to be in the south of Russia because I am from south but it's created unfortunately in Moscow with all the rain and bad weather but it's all the same I applied and eventually I am a professor there second thing my students from China most of my students were when I was in the States most of my students were Chinese and they told me about I applied to China the so-called thousand talents professorship program and I thought why Russia doesn't have it and then comes mega grams program which is the same kind of program as Chinese thousand talents but actually brought to perfection it's a more intelligent program in my opinion and my third dream was so after I moved to Russia now I spent majority of my time in Russia and after I moved to Russia I saw many talented young people my postdocs are great one of my postdocs recently got professorship in Germany another of my postdocs she is Mexican another postdoc of mine returned to China and became a professor in famous university here in China but I thought why doesn't the government create opportunities for young talented people inside the country so a young bright scientist who publishes good papers why doesn't he get a chance to form his own laboratory when he is 25, 26 and I was running around with this idea and whenever I was interviewed I said this is what Russia should do and ok half a year ago I again opened a newspaper I don't open newspapers often these days but when I open it often it comes with a surprise I say ok Russian government created a program to enable young scientists to create their own laboratories and I think it's just wonderful it's the best way to retain young talent and in fact even to bring young talent from outside and now I have one more dream just one more dream and I think with that dream with that dream coming true I think I could safely say that I will have no more dreams global ones only dreams for myself my dream is to see the time when Russia will start important top level scientists not by tens or hundreds but by thousands I want Russia to be a global large scale magnet of talents the way America is the way China is becoming the way to a large extent Europe is I want Russia to be the biggest of them Arton you should open newspapers more often maybe dreams will come true no these days I prefer not to these days I prefer not to open newspapers they are enabling your dreams I think it was mentioned now it's enough scientific Americans participate before I see there are two other questions here which I want to come to but I thought Arton do you have requests of the scientists from the practical side companies like yours well not only for companies like ours but actually we are at World Economic Forum event and the main topic of this year is fourth industrial revolution which is obviously driven by IT and IT as I said previously is based on mathematics it's all about that it's all about science but more practical application of science so and here even though I agree with Mr. Furze in Russia is not the biggest economics now it can be presently be one of the drivers of this fourth industrial revolution just because of people just one example every year there is an organization called Ross Patent which is kind of Russian Patent Bureau publishes 100 best inventions best patents our company in this year has got 15 of them again this is all about the way mathematicians and IT engineers work always try to create something new there is natural spirit of curiosity this is all because thanks to all this gentleman who's been raising people for our company and this is pretty interesting that despite of different sums of money invested in the science compared with other countries Russian scientists Russian software engineers are so much visible and I've heard about very scary Russian hackers this is a dark side of brilliant Russian education everything has got dark and bright side and one more thing I wanted to tell you here once I was talking to one of my colleague from software company and he is a software developer mathematician essentially and he mentioned one really interesting thing so we were talking about why software engineers are the best and he said there is one thing which Russian scientists has can be translated into English maybe you can help here so it's kind of smart creativeness maybe some speculative approach for the in a good way it's really hard to find direct translation for this work it's kind of how you think how you solve problems how you solve it in a very positive smart and unusual way this is cool we love it so I saw one waiting back here very patiently so I have the highest regards for the long tradition of excellent mathematics and national science in Russia and by Russian scientists but life science is much less developed why is that has that been a priority and what is to be expected for the future what about the life sciences yeah sure you know all the scientists are very conservative and so our centers of excellence were always related to mathematics to physics and maybe being slightly less attention to the quality of life today's situation has changed a little bit in an organized way we made a few steps and now it's time we made a few steps so organizationally we have changed the structure academically we have changed we have organizationally restructured the Russian Academy of Science first different institutions were targeting different areas some of them agriculture some of them medicine some physics and mathematics and chemistry on the other hand today more attention is paid also from the financial perspective and the interest is paid to this kind of research to life science I'm not talking only about medicine but also about such an important sector as agriculture and so this has led to that our leading scientists in physics and mathematics especially the young ones they also are changing and they're doing more of these this kind of science so in terms of the grants that Russian scientists are seeking we have more requests for multidisciplinary research so away from traditionally traditional areas but more into the convergence of areas if Artyom writes a newspaper then it will be faster if Artyom writes a newspaper then it will be faster if Artyom writes a newspaper then it will be faster if Artyom reads about it in the newspaper it will of course happen faster but if he doesn't then it will still happen but maybe not so fast could I just ask one follow up on the restructuring of the universities can you tell us a little bit more about how you're doing that are you fostering a multidisciplinary more in the ways that Valerie was describing in general the management of science is a very complex process you know managing science is a very complex process and by just ordering something you can achieve not so much by profession when I was a scientist I used to be into gas dynamics so there is a system where you see the drop of pressure or the water would flow in a different direction so I think there is something similar and how you could influence the situation in science so the direct management is not always the most efficient but we have created a system of programs for the universities and now for academic institutions and we're motivating them by offering more interesting tasks to them in those areas where around the world today I consider to be the most advanced most interesting not just for the Russian science and the Russian economy but globally again what's really important for the world and for Russia is agriculture because today the right products it's your health it's the future it's the medicine and it's the future of the world because we know that in the world there are many people who are obese and the world is getting fatter because they eat poorly poorly in the sense that they eat wrong food and some don't have enough to eat so this is one of the most important sectors both for the science and just for our global future so we offer new tasks I mean the government and we finance these new tasks and maybe we finance them better than the traditional areas so young, dynamic, ambitious people are moving that way we put these tasks in front of the people who are not into agriculture but who are mathematicians and this shift is gradually felt this is a long story but again if there is no correct article this is a story unless there is an article that Professor Aganoff reads but we see that it's changing slowly there is a shift and for colleagues who work in Russia who move into Russia permanently they are from these fields and they have experience in other countries on these dimensions so that's very important he's been waiting patiently and then over to you microbiologists teaching these courses at Tsinghua University in Beijing in the earlier time Russian general microbiology was almost the strongest in the world and it took a lot to generate microbiology but now when I go through almost all the journals in microbiology you hardly see any papers from Russia so I'm going to visit Russia in September this year so I try to dig out the Russian microbiology developments I could not find many so I assume some of these papers are published in Russian domestic journal so I just wonder if there are any sources that we can find Russian microbiology research in Russia maybe not in English but in the local language I can just very quickly comment on general I think experimental sciences suffered the most during the beginning of the changes especially in the 90s in the beginning of 2000 because theoretical science has been supported and throughout the toughest times and it's a little different in the way it is executed as opposed to the true laboratory research the fact that you are not seeing papers is probably reflective of the fact that there is much lower output indeed it's not out and people do publish in life sciences I think it relates to the question whether you believe the graphs and you can actually track what was published how much and how much it was used it's simply a result of the difficulty and if I can be brutally honest it's a lost generation of sciences which we need to recreate right now and I think that's one of the most important tasks of us as the international community is to capitalize on what's there but in reality we need to start from scratch after a five year process it's a generational process so we need to grow that new generation of scientists and we need to but it means using resources of old resources and importing talent that's perfectly fine but it needs to be done within as well so and I think it would change I doubt very much that when you go to Russia in September you will be able to see some only in Russian published journals and never translated I don't think that's the case very dramatically but it's not where it should be thank you it sounds like a combination of incentives and then focus for a period of time so the researchers know they can rely on it and will continue to focus on it it's a demand from time even for the child it's nine months you see for the something for that because it's demand a little more we need to have a child and actually educate and bring him up as well so I think that's a good example of lost generation I come actually from the family of scientists my father has PhD in chemistry Marley's was working in chemistry uncles and their friends or friends so actually all my childhood I was born with a guy with the people who are scientists and out of I don't know a few dozens of them only a couple of stealing science so this is an example for you you've been very patient geopolitical tensions like between Russia and Ukraine between Russia and Obama administration or periods of geopolitical honeymoon between the current US administration and Russia how did it impact the exchange of scientists or the funding of projects that's the first sort of question the second we heard a lot about the mega the mega trans project mega trans could you just tell us what it is about thank you would you like to start with the geopolitical situation let's talk about geopolitical I won't translate the answer okay so I will not delegate responsibility I can take this question myself you know what we talk about science and how geopolitics is influenced that it is a very weak link very little influence as my colleagues have said we have participated in collaborative research even more during more difficult times in the past we understand that the political situation should not really influence those things but instead they should compensate for those things the bond between scientists must remain strong and I can say that from the Russian side there are no restrictions we do not create problems for that we understand that for some of our colleagues abroad there could be some problems psychological organizational but at the same time we are trying to create a situation in which they would be free from something like that but there is no situation that they are involved in geopolitics and I think we are succeeding I think it works out as for the mega grants maybe the beneficiaries of the mega grants could talk to that because both of them have participated in the program what I can say is that just maybe one thing that the resources have been allocated is the decision to fund the science during the first crisis economic crisis of 2008 where the overall situation has worsened but the decision was that we are still going to use this big money it was a big amount especially by the Russian standard but we still decided to go ahead with it and to pursue this goal so that shows a certain will from the governments and processes so that they could change the landscape of Russian and global science and maybe in more details my colleagues will talk about this you know I will start actually by a very brief answer to the first question in my observation the vast majority of scientists are actually opportunistic opportunity driven people can talk about those intentions and so on but when there is an opportunity to create your own laboratory people go to China although China has a one party system and people in the West don't like it but people from the West gladly come to China to create their own laboratories people may take one side or another in the tensions between Russia and the US but when there is an opportunity to create a laboratory there is an opportunity so these megagrants actually are very attractive my interpretation of this megagrant program is that it's a pilot program to you know better but I think the program it attracts only 40 people per year only 40 people per year but it already attracted few Nobel laureates and really top level people many of whom have absolutely nothing to do with Russia because of geopolitical tensions of horrible media campaign against Russia I think I don't know how anyone can believe that stuff that Russia is guilty of you know sunsets and cold weather in Canada and Antarctic ice sheet Russia is guilty of all of that of course and when American people elect the president it's also somehow Russian result I don't know how people with non-zero IQ put seriously and actually that could be a magnet of people towards Russia as well I think people have an innate sense of fairness if somebody is accused of everything people might actually accidentally take that side but regardless of that I think scientists largely are opportunity driven and apolitical I think and politics should not really be part of the equation here at all I think it's good that people are opportunity driven so mega grants are that opportunity for people to create a world-class laboratory in Russia taking advantage of large resources that this program gives taking advantage of talents really phenomenal talents that Russian young scientists are for me there was a guiding principle for many many years I lived more than 16 years outside of Russia and I asked myself why am I doing it where in Britain where I did my PhD in Switzerland where I was a group leader and in America where I still actually am a professor more than 16 years and I asked myself why what am I doing here and the answer was the following whenever you can work at home choose home so if home gives an opportunity take it and mega grants was that opportunity and it was I had to spend four months per year this is enough to feel the atmosphere to feel if the country is suitable for living suitable for working and I took the chance to try and I thought it's wonderful and after that I relocated to Russia I think it's an opportunity to sum up for global of science to create laboratory in Russia taking advantage of all the resources and talents that it provides and it's an opportunity for Russians who left to try if they can be interested to come back I think it's wonderful Maybe a short remark As you remember I began from the ideas that we need some intellectual diversity and we need some sense of excellence with a different environment in Russia we have a little other environment in the science a little other approach and this approach was very productive for the other part of the world and because of it maybe it's important that some excellent scientist not only Russian but the other one time to work in Russia because it's the other approach maybe more white maybe not so practical but the exchange in Russia at least earlier I think now also more free it's not so pragmatic and because of it I think also important because it's the other spirit Thank you I see there are other questions in the room but I know we only have a couple more minutes I think it would be helpful for everybody we talked about a lot of things here in many ways the progress of Russia which has been quite wonderful I loved hearing about the dreams that got answered every time and as a journalist I'm happy you're looking in newspapers thank you for looking for fostering creation of ways to support talents mobile talents in Russia to support young scientists on their journeys it's hard enough to get started in science it seems like a really wonderful thing in ways that we celebrate through vest inventions and so on the achievements of science and technology and that maybe you can't order change but you can influence it by focusing investment and a steady thing you can rely on for science in Russia which I thought was quite useful and also the idea that in the face of geopolitical change the benefits of science can only still come through like a steady support of it I loved hearing all of those things and I loved hearing the idea that home office you an opportunity you may as well take it I would like to give to the speakers quickly if you can a sentence or two what's one thing you would like everybody in the room to take away from about science and the continuing evolution of science and technology in Russia let's start us off Antoine what's one thing you'd like people to take away from this conversation today about science and technology in Russia I need one more minute I loved your story by the way that you come from a family of scientists I wonder and I know that it's a personal well if I can say tragedy for my father he wanted to be scientist all his life unfortunately he couldn't because I have a brother and a sister so he had to quit his laboratory and by the way he ended up in 90 of those things for me the most important thing is the transformation of Russia from a barren land in terms of science to the land of opportunities and I think we are now living through this time when Russia is becoming a land of opportunities for scientists who want to relocate to Russia or return to Russia and I believe that these opportunities will grow exponentially the responsibility of scientists in Russia and elsewhere and I think we need to be pragmatic about what can be accomplished in different countries we need to take advantage of what different countries offer and take advantage in a good way so I'm not saying in a way to exploit but again there is a positive connotation to the world to the world exploit and take advantage of Russia Russian science and how it integrates into the overall global scientific community and what output it gives that scientists need to be able to do with your help is to deliver the message to the general public to communicate what scientists are doing because the sentiment even though we touched on it yesterday in the United States for example for biomedical research is pretty strong everybody wants to do it but as soon as it comes to paying for that it becomes a whole different story and it becomes a very different sentiment of the public of the general public as well and I think as scientists no matter where I don't think those borders should exist we need to be able to communicate why we do it, what we do and what it means really to be a scientist at large in today's world so communicate better we see that today the world is changing really and now humanity is advancing grand challenges many people talk about it these days these challenges are such that in the existence system we cannot really respond to them the response could only be intellectual it should be found in the new ideas we talked about this word in Russian ability to find the solutions unorthodox solutions to things it's the part of being a scientist right now the strategy for the Russian science and we have prepared this document recently this is the strategy of responding to grand challenges that the country is facing and the world is facing it doesn't mean that we have to respond to these challenges only we have to think about tomorrow about the day after tomorrow and we have to get ready as a humanity maybe it sounds too complex but this is true and so I think that to get that and Russia is a big part of that together we can find the answers to those questions thank you that seems like an excellent really excellent way to conclude our conversation the world is facing grand challenges the world needs science science needs the world too and I know we'll have an excellent home for science in Russia as we continue so thank you very much thank you for joining us thank you