 Welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so glad that you're here. If this is your first time joining us, we are thrilled that you found your way to the nonprofit show because today we have a very special guest. You know, every month we have a representative from Bloomerang because they have been one of our very loyal, grateful partners. And today we have a new representative joining us, Katie Gaston, where she serves as the senior product marketing manager for Bloomerang. And she's going to tell us a little bit about herself in just a minute. She's here to bring up a topic that is timely, especially as we move into end of year fundraising, but it's all about generational giving and how we can reach and also engage with younger donors. So I'm looking forward to learning more from you, Katie, on this topic. Julia Patrick is here. She is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group. Together, we are so grateful to have the continued support from our amazing partners. As I mentioned, Bloomerang earlier, one of our very first sponsors here. Also a huge shout out of gratitude to our friends, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, Nonprofit Thought Leader, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, non-profit nerd, as well as non-profit tech talk. Julia, I always say their mission is your mission for all of the nonprofits, the 1.8 million non-profits registered today in the U.S. So check out these companies because they really are here to serve you and your community. They've helped us produce over 900 episodes. In fact, today, ladies, I checked and it is 9-1-1. So no emergency, but it is 9-1-1. That's a good number. Yeah. I know. That's a good number. If you missed any of the previous conversations, that's okay. We have you covered and we have your board covered and your friends covered and your coworkers. So go ahead and scan the QR code now. If you're watching, you can download the app and you can find our episodes there. We're also on podcast platforms. So for those of you that like to listen as you're on the go, and we're also on streaming broadcast platforms. So pretty much anywhere you stream and get your entertainment, you can also stream and get the nonprofit show. So all right, that is our intro. We can put that behind us because we're thrilled to have you here, Katie. Again, Katie Gaston has joined us, Senior Product Marketing Manager at Bloomerang. Welcome to you. Thank you. So excited to be here with you both this morning. Well, we are thrilled. You know, as I mentioned earlier, we have been so privileged to have representatives from Bloomerang over the last 900 plus episodes. Thrilled to have you here as a new face, a new voice, a new lens. Every single person that has joined us from Bloomerang brings so much expertise. But tell us a little bit about yourself, Katie, and also where you're joining us from. Great question. So I'll start with where I'm joining from because I always think it's fun to hear where everyone is in the States. I'm coming from Boise, Idaho. So if anyone has traveled to Idaho, it's a lovely state. So many wonderful nature opportunities. And we love our potatoes as always in Idaho. Good thing. And then professionally, I joined Bloomerang back in January. My I've been in the software space for all of my career and my long term vision was eventually to make it to a company where I could get back with the skills that I've developed in software. I've been volunteering since I can remember. I think when I was 14, I took my dogs to the nursing home with my mom and did animal assisted therapy. I'm a member of our Rotary Club locally here. So I've given back for as long as I can remember. So I feel so privileged to have the opportunity to be at Bloomerang where I can do what I love, but do it and hopefully help some organizations in the process. Yeah, it's it's really amazing. Because I think when we talk with our friends at Bloomerang, we see a lot of the same story, you know, is that they have a mission based heart and lifestyle that they've been active in their communities and their faiths and politics, all different walks of life. And yet that missing piece of how to manage and how to steward and how to be a strong business leader within the sector was missing until they found their tribe at Bloomerang. And I find it fascinating, absolutely fascinating that you can see that. To me and Jared, don't you think it's very clear? It's very, very clear that that personality fit or type. And so we're excited that you're with us. And and I'm sure that we will see you more. But let's start off the big question and have you first back up the truck and really just help us understand what is next gen and the concept and what is the next gen donor doing and what are they looking like? Yeah, I think that's a great question. And when we were talking about this before we we got on live, I think you made a really good point that next generation can mean a lot of things to a lot of individuals. If you're, let's say, in an older generation today or perceived as an older generation, next generation to you may be baby boomers or may be gen Xers. And so traditionally, I think in the space when we say next generation, I think we're typically referring to millennials or, you know, the Gen Z generation, which were born 1996 to 2010. Both of those generations, I would say, we're seeing a lot of different patterns and how they're showing up to give and how their expectations are for what they would expect when they go to purchase something or when they go to give to a nonprofit organization. The one thing I'll caveat with that to say, though, is when we're when we're talking about who is the next gen donor, I think what's really important to remember is who are your donors today and how do you diversify that donor base in order to create more long term giving potential over time? So, for example, if you're an organization where all of your donors are of the very the older generation, maybe next gen to you is actually not just millennial, but really looking at how do you also incorporate gen X into that conversation and looking at their preferences. So part of that is, OK, let's look at millennials, you know, Gen Z, but then also where are your needs and how do you adapt that definition to base based off of where your organization is today? Katie, I have a question. I've been involved specifically in fundraising, right? And with a lot of different organizations and I hear well, we think our donors are this and they're kind of making this broad cast of assumption and they don't really know their donors, right? And this is more small to midsize organizations. They typically don't have portfolios in place. And so it's kind of, you know, as I would say, grew up in South Carolina, the buckshot approach, you know, where it's like we're going for everyone here. Can you help me understand? And for those listening to say, yeah, I'm one of those where we just say, we think we have an older demographic. Like, how do we even start to gather this data? And I don't mean to throw a curveball, but like, how do we start to truly know our donors so we can identify what next gen really is? That's a great question. And I think, you know, obviously coming at it from the software lens, I can come up with a lot of software tools that can help you do that. But before I talk about those, I feel like I feel like I'll come at it from, you know, in product marketing, our goal is that if you're not familiar with the brand or the industry or the term of product marketing, we're storytellers. But in order to tell a story, and this is actually really important for you or nonprofit organizations, in order to tell a story, you have to know who you're telling a story to. I need to. The first and most important thing when you're thinking of your, you know, your fundraising strategy and and even how you're talking about your nonprofit is understanding who your donors are. And I think there's a lot of ways to approach that problem. One, you could survey your your donors, who has been giving to you. If you have, you know, tools to help you see who's giving on a regular basis. In fact, in Bloomerang, we actually have some tools to support the process of surveying and asking for feedback. But in general, what I would say is think about how you can ask them some of those questions if you don't have that information today. Start there. And and then kind of more long term, let's say, for example, if you only have a PayPal button on your website and you don't have, you know, the full ability to capture some of that information up front, then start to think, how do I build that into my process? So should I be looking at a tool that helps me capture, you know, information like, tell me about yourself as a donor? What's your address? So you can survey them. Does that help at all? That helps tremendously. And thank you for that. I know it kind of puts you, you know, in the corner because as we think of this, I have heard that so many times. I love that you mentioned that PayPal PayPal button. Let's move into, you know, the value of contactless payment methods. And I am just as guilty if I have to get up and get my credit card, forget it. You know, that kind of mentality. It's like, oh, that's just too hard to talk to us, Katie, about the value of having contactless payment methods. 100 percent. So let's I, one of my favorite podcasts says, let's get back in the wayback machine. Let's let's take a trip to 2020. We all remember that for better or worse. And how many of you listening pulled out your wallets during 2020 and paid in cash? I mean, there was so much fear around cash at that time for obvious reasons. And 2020 was really interesting because obviously impacted the world in a really meaningful way and a lot of different spectrum. But specifically as it relates to contactless payments, I think it was it really skyrocketed technology innovation that had either been sitting on the background or waiting to take off. So in a way, that was actually a really good thing that happened in 2020. So some research around that. The cash donations used to be almost 50 percent in 2019, and it dropped to 10 percent for standard donors in 2020. And when you look at how has that changed in 2022, because you're like, oh, well, maybe it increased. Well, it actually only increased to 20, a little under 25 percent. So in 2022, less than 25 percent of donors gave cash versus over 50 percent in 2017. So we're seeing just market trends. We're seeing a much stronger decline in terms of a preference for cash. And then I think the other thing that we saw in 2020 was more mindfulness around actually touching and trying to be mindful of like, how do I, hey, without necessarily having physical contact? So that's the benefit of contactless payments. Now, let's define what that means. I'm sure we've all been in a scenario. Now I do it where instead of sliding my card in the little thing, I just tap my card to the actual reader. So that's a version. Another thing that we've seen really come back is the use of QR codes. When I started my career, I remember QR codes came out now. This was like 12 to 15 years ago. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that's never going to be a thing. So it blew my mind in 2020 when I was like, my mom is using a QR code. Yeah, it's not even possible. Fresh bonds, menus, they were there. Yeah. And we're now seeing. And on our televisions. Yeah, on, you know, like, like literally on our televisions, not just in print or yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. I agree with you. Yeah. So the research behind this is that contactless payments. In fact, market research shows that contactless payments are predicted to rise 220 percent by 2026. And and what that really means for nonprofits is we should be mindful of thinking of how can we integrate tools for contactless payments, like using tap to pay functionality into offering donors a really meaningful and seamless giving experience. Yeah. I love that you brought this up because it's so interesting. Sure. No, it's it's fascinating. We're both really excited. And you know, and I see, you know, even more options for payments, right, whether it's Apple Pay or there's so much so many, so many different ones. And I just so appreciate that, you know, Venmo has come into the game. Other Zell, you know, and it's almost like if we as a nonprofit aren't adopting and adapting, you know, to these new new ways, we might not get that next gen because if that's what they're seeking, right, then then how do we how do we provide that to them? Super fascinating. OK, now let's move into that digital communication space, which I feel is, you know, we've already started it. So let's just take it a little forward and further to talk about digital communication as well as mobile friendly because I saw a meme the other day, you know, which our life is full of means right now. But it was like the jokes on the math teacher that said, you won't always have a calculator on you. And it's like, yeah, do we have multiple calculators on us all the time. So this mobile friendly and the digital communication, what are you seeing for this by way of the next gen? Yeah, I think that's a great question. So so going back to I think you said the comment just a minute ago about we really, as we're thinking about next generation donors, should provide tools that allow them to give in the way that they prefer to give. You know, research shows that Gen Z and millennials over 60 percent of this generation uses some form of contactless payments. And what that really means is that I mean, I'm sure we've all seen individuals that are a little of a younger generation always keeping their phones with them like and that shows up in the data. You know, in fact, if you have a nonprofit website, over 50 percent of the traffic to your website is probably coming from a mobile device. So the other thing to consider, we always think about communication strategies, obviously, but you know, email is something we've used for years. Letters is obviously still effective for the right audience. But how quickly do you read a text message or we all have our watches? Now we get buzzed on our watch with a text message. How quickly do you look at it versus how many emails do you just send to your archive? So thinking of there's a few things as it relates to how do you make your communication, you know, digital and mobile friendly? I think one is thinking about using resources, such as, let's say, text to donate where someone I can actually, you know, get a text message and go immediately to your donation page and actually process it quickly versus having to go to my desktop computer, something like that. Tap to pay where I can use my device and tap directly to a payment method as well. Or the other thing I also encourage nonprofits to think about is how do you make sure that your website looks friendly on a mobile device? Have you visited your own website on your phone to see what it looks like and have you tried to donate from your phone on your own website? Because optimizing that is really important for the providing a really seamless donor experience. Yeah, I'm always amazed, Katie, when I get an email, you know, a newsletter from an organization or anything. And I'm looking at it from my phone and I'm like, wait, this does not. I don't understand, right? Like it's hyphenating in a place that shouldn't be hyphenated. It just, you know, makes my my eyes kind of go a little wonky. I would ask the question about noise. There's a lot of communication right now, right? We have access to so many things. Is there a golden rule when it comes to digital communication that we should be following when it comes to this next gen? That's a that's a great question. My feedback to that would be. Well, one, obviously, don't spam people. I think that we can all agree that we don't like receiving over communication. But really, the baseline of of of that, I think is. There's so much technology like using a donor management system that allows you to be really contextual and I want to say segmented, but personal when you send communication to someone. So I think the most important element and this really is both for next generation donors, but really all donors in general is if you're sharing communication or if you're asking someone to take an action, make sure that you do that in a way that shows that you know them and that you have a relationship with them. So if you've given to my nonprofit organization before, rather than speaking to you like you don't know what my mission is, I'm going to speak with you in a way that's more relevant and contextual for what you know. Tools like like Bloomerang can help organizations do that more effectively because you, again, have that information like we talked about at the start. You know it and you can see trends in history. But but I think that that's probably one of the more more important things is just the contextual. You have a relationship and digital communication is simply extending that relationship in a new way. Yeah, well, like you said from the get go, you know, know the story that you want to tell and to whom you want to tell the story to and and that will navigate you much further along. Let's talk about next gen donors in terms of what they're responding to because I think this is one of the most interesting parts of this whole discussion is that, you know, it's not your your same old same old approach to engagement. So what does this look like? Ah, that's a another fantastic question. And it's one that I relate to personally because I am in a certain extent the next gen donor myself. So I would say, you know, we're seeing next generation donors interact and engage with nonprofits in a different way. Traditionally, Golas may have been your primary mode of fundraising, but and that's OK. And there is still a audience in your donor base that that makes sense for. But if you're looking to engage in a new generation of donor, think about expanding your fundraising strategy to include some other types of events or engagements that next generation donors may be interested in. Peer to peer fundraising and crowd funding is a really prime opportunity for next generation donors. We're already so familiar with and passionate about sharing within our networks, using technology to do that. And tools like crowd funding allow next generation donors to do that in a meaningful way. So for example, if you're having a fun run, encourage fine champions in your donor base who are younger and say, can you be the lead on finding people to join your team and compete against your friends to see if you can raise more to support this mission? So empower and enable them to do what they do best, which is network and sharing in a digital way. The same thing. I think you have farmers markets and community events. You know, I'm a member of the Rotary Club and I was having a conversation last night and someone was saying, well, you know, sometimes next generation as in younger people think that organizations like the Rotary Club don't exist anymore. It's like, well, it does actually. It's just the way that I feel like younger generations network, it still is around. We still need community. We still need to support each other. It's just the format of that tends to be on mobile devices and online. So adapt to that and create systems like events or have tools like the peer to peer that support that. Does that make sense? It makes so much sense. I also think, Katie, when it comes to the fund runs, the farmers markets, you know, those activities, it's a lower entry point. And unlike, you know, the traditional Gala looking at that, where tickets are, I'm going to say skyrocketing, right? Like that is a way that I've seen nonprofits increase their revenue is by simply increasing the cost of these events. Not that it's wrong, but it, you know, it might prevent some of the next gen, whomever the next gen is we're written to to attend. And for me as a parent, you know, I'm always looking at my schedule with my child and isn't an event that, you know, is accommodating to children. Yay or nay, fun runs are farmers markets are right. And so also to to model philanthropy to an even younger generation. That's what I'm about as well. And so how can we create more of these opportunities to just kind of bake in, right, that model of philanthropy? Yeah, I would think, too. That's I love that you said that it's a lower barrier to entry. And I think there's two things to think about as the opportunity presents itself for those types of events. One is how do I use those to raise money? That's obviously on top of everyone's mind. So going back to what we talked about before, integrate contactless payments into those types of events. Use tap to pay, for example, you know, your volunteers can have tap to pay on their phone. Someone can go up and give directly to you to support your mission or, you know, make it really easy with, let's say, QR codes or something at the event so people can go directly to your donation page. So one obviously is raising money, but I think the other opportunity with those that sometimes is a little undervalued in nonprofits is just awareness of your organization. Sometimes just having people show up in a larger audience because that barrier to entry is lower is really meaningful because if more people know about your organization, even if they're not ready to give now, they may give to you in the future. It's marketing 101. I mean, you have to begin that relationship with, you know, an entry point so that we can begin to share our story and our mission. And if it's not a fit, then okay, move on to something else. We have 1.8 million nonprofits registered in this country. There are ways to find, you know, mission and points of passion, right? It may not be your organization. It can be someone else's. But if we don't get ourselves out there, you know, we never can navigate ahead. You've been amazing and we've learned so much. It's been really cool to get your time and introduce you to the process. And dare I say, the family that the nonprofit shows created with Blimerang, it's been really, really fun. You know, Katie, before we... Now, this is, again, another hot seat question. But, and I know you are totally unprepared for this, but being that you're a techie and that you're into this side of the business, what do you think is going to be like a big trend that we should be watching for in the next three to five years? Because for a lot of folks, unfortunately, this is going to be somewhat of a new and heavy lift. But where do we position our brains to be thinking, okay, how do we welcome additional things coming in? What do you think that might look like? Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Part of that, in my opinion, goes back to what I mentioned a little bit earlier, which is we have such an expectation, I think, as because we have so much communication coming out at us as individuals and donors, we, I feel like, have expectations to be talked to in a personal way. Now, some tools exist around that today, like, for example, some automation with an email communication systems and donor management tools that really help move a donor along the process in a meaningful way. But I think that we'll see more around that. You know, there's been a lot of talk around chat GPT and AI, and you would argue, well, what's the benefit of that for nonprofits? But it goes back to what are the expectations for donors, which is, in my opinion, we want to develop relationships for humans. And technology should simply enable and empower us to do that in a more meaningful way. So things like email automation or chat GPT or whatever is next as AI continues to increase and becomes a little less scary, whatever happens there. The fundamental purpose of it is how do we have human like relationships in ways that we can automate more at scale? So in my opinion, as a nonprofit organization, I would start looking at what's my communication strategy today and then what tools exist in the market as of now, like email communications have been built into donor management. It helps me do that more effectively. Focus on that, build a really strong and sustainable strategy. And then if you have that foundation down, you will be primed for when those new tools exist on the market, like AI focused communication. I love your structure and your approach to that. That's cool. I mean, Jared, don't you think that's that's an interesting way to look at this? Yeah, you know, one of the things we saw during the height of the pandemic was the organizations that were quick and nimble and ready to innovate. They have done very well for themselves. So I think not losing that is really, you know, going to be to our advantage. How can we integrate what currently is here, Katie, and then be ready for the next cusp? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Katie, this has been a lot of fun. Katie Gaston, Senior Product Marketing Manager at Bloomerang, coming to us today from Boise. I bet it's kind of chilly. It's getting there. Yeah. Where it's a rainy day here today. I love it. I love it. Well, you know, as you mentioned in the green in the green room chatter and of course, during a nonprofit show, you know, we are moving into this really busy time and it's really important. And then it just doesn't stop. We move to the new year and things are going, going, going. And so I love this conversation, Katie. Really, it has been amazing. Bloomerang.com has a lot of free content. In fact, Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd herself, is going to be conducting a webinar. Talk to us about that briefly, Jared, before we sign off today. Yeah, it's taken place in about an hour, but it's about funding at a glance. And so I will be sharing the tool that I've used with so many organizations to help capture, you know, some data driven decisions using their donor database. So funding at a glance, join me in just about an hour. I love it. And you can access that through Bloomerang.com. Yes, absolutely. Awesome. Well, let's hope you get some good questions. Hey, everybody, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been joined today by the nonprofit nerd herself. I like to call her my nonprofit nerd, but she can be yours too. And yes, I know, I got to push up those glasses with the tape on them. Yeah, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. Again, we have amazing trust with our partners, and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part time controller, nonprofit thought leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out, and they join you in your mission, vision and values. OK, wow, Katie, you gave me some great things to think about. And thank you very much for joining us. This has been a lot of fun. Thanks so much for having me. So glad I could be here. Absolutely. Hey, everybody, as we sign off every episode, 900 plus now, episodes of the nonprofit show, we want to remind everyone to stay well. So you can do well. See you back here tomorrow, everyone.