 Today, our guest is Adam Thomas, who's going to talk about how you can make your donors dollars. Adam is a senior procurement professional with broad experience delivering strategy and implementation across the supplier lifecycle, including sourcing, contracting, supplier relationship management, and spend optimization. And he's going to talk a little bit about some best practices that we as a nonprofit world can follow to spend our money more wisely. And so with that, let me pass it over to today's expert. Hi guys, thank you very much for having me here. I'm a procurement consultant. I've also been involved as a co-founder of a procurement software startup that is designed for SMEs. And we have some nonprofits already around the world working with ad from talking to sounded like there's an opportunity to help you guys. Obviously, we're living at the one we got inflation we've got. So we're still recovering from COVID. The economy's not great. So every central dollar that people donate, you want to make it go as far as you can. Let's kick off. So what I'd like to look at today is let's look at first of all, what purchasing and procurement, the differences between the two. And one thing I would like to say, if anybody's got any questions, I can't see the screen. But if you've got a question, please voice it and I'll answer it as best I can. I'll run the chat and I will be your voice. If you could, I'm sorry, yeah, because I've got the full screen in front of me. We'll look at then procurement. We'll look at sourcing goods and services. We'll look at a simple process to achieve that. We'll have some tips. Contract management. We'll look at what that involves and some simple tips for that to get the best out of contract management. Save the vendor management with end up savings management, how to make it happen, how, you know, and there are say, I don't expect everyone to take every single thing that I'm saying today. But if you can just take some of them on board, it will help your donor's dollars go a little bit further. We'll also then I'll look at some digital solutions and what your consideration should be when you're procuring digital solutions. And I'll tell you a little bit about. So first thing is, I guess, effective third management of third party spend cannot average release savings between 7% and 12% have a direct impact on the bottom line. Now, if we say you've got third party spend of a million dollars, 7%, 70,000, 12,000, that's right, 12% would be 120,000. So if you could release that money to spend on direct front line delivery for your non-prof by doing effective spend management, then that's going to be good for your organization. And from a donor's perspective, they want every single cent or dollar spent on front line delivery, not wasted with vendors. So the first thing for us to look at is purchasing. So purchasing and procurement are often taken as the same thing. Purchasing is, I guess, what you do on a daily basis, you go in, you purchase something from a shop. From a business perspective, it's, I want to buy that item, I raise a purchase order, it gets approved. Purchase order then goes to the vendor then delivers the goods or services, gets paid for. That's purchasing, which is great. And we say it's something that we do on a daily basis. Procurement on, and it's short-term, it's very short-term, it's very tactical, whereas procurement is much more strategic and long-term, and it's looking at a whole cycle, and it's a cycle that's repeated over and over. It's looking at the sourcing, how and why getting those items of goods and services, managing the contracts, managing the vendors, and then looking at savings management, and it's continuous. Once it's finished, you then go back on, you look at the next category, and you then carry on and on. So one thing from a procurement perspective is a lot of people on an elite staff have had difficulty producing the word procurement, is that I think a lot of people think it's far more complicated than it is. And one of the things for us is, for me, is that procurement is something that we all do in our daily lives, whenever suddenly it goes out and, for example, goes and gets a new mobile cell phone contract. They are effectively doing procurement. They're going out, they're choosing what phone do they want, do they want an Apple, do they want a Google phone or another phone, what contract do they want, do they want a SIM only, do they want a 12-month contract, 24-month contract, how much data do they want, do they want 5GB, 20GB, 30GB a month, unlimited, whatever it might be. So that's the first part of procurement. They are actually assessing what their needs are. Then they're then going out and going, which network do I go with? Am I buying it for a recent or am I going direct to the network? That's them choosing who is the vendor I'm going to go, which vendor am I looking at. And before that, they're thinking about what's important to me, what do I want from this contract for the next 12, 24 months. Once they've then gone out and got the office from the vendors, they're then assessing those against what's important to them, and they're then able to go out there, take out the contract, and they'll then manage the contract. Coming up to the end of that contract, they'll make sure then that they give notice, or at least they go out and they start looking for another contract. Now, in very simple terms, that's all procurement. So as you can see from that example, it's something that we are all doing on a daily basis, although we don't necessarily know we're carrying out procurement. So the first part of procurement is actually the sourcing part. So let's look at sourcing. So the sourcing, any goods or services, and this is, I've broken it out into simple steps, because that's what people, anyone, if you could get simple steps, you can follow them, and you can get the most value from them. So the first thing is what exactly is required? What are my, let's, I don't know, whatever item it might be, goods or services, what am I currently buying? Do I need to buy as much? Is there a technology, as there's been some improvement in technology? Is there a better option out there? So you need to work out exactly what you need. And one of the most important parts of that is actually when you're in an organization, is talking to the stakeholders. It's talking to the people who've got the budgets. It's talking to the, ultimately it's talking to the end users, because you might be purchasing something, or purchasing at the moment on a contract that actually the users don't use. They think it's not worthwhile. So actually talk to them and find out, get the feedback from them as to what's important to them. The next thing you need to look at is actually what represents best value to you as an organization. Let me just skip forward a slide. So what's best value? We can see here that it's becoming more and more, it's becoming increasingly important. It's not just about the price or the cost of something. So cost is obviously how many dollars is it going to cost me? Preferably over the lifetime of the contract, what's it going to cost? Quality, what is that important to me or not? Do I want G? If you want quality, obviously there's a, generally there's a cost involved. Excuse me. And then more and more now ESG, environmental, social and corporate governments are becoming more and more important in the world. And that's obviously giving more influence on what people are doing. Certainly from an environmental perspective of sustainability and the need for net zero, people are now looking at greenhouse gases that their supply chain is producing and that's becoming more important. And then obviously your own values, it might be that your own non-profit, you want to make sure that you're working with suppliers through either support backs, whatever your aim or objective might be, or maybe they're employing people, whatever that might be. So that's, you've got a best value and it's up to each organization and it might differ depending on what goods or services. So then we've entered inside which vendors do I go to? So the vendors, I would always include the incumbent, they're there, even if you're not happy with them, it's best to include them because you don't want them to suddenly let you down before you've perhaps moved on to a new vendor. I would suggest you get three, minimum three vendors. Where did you get them from? Talk to other people in your sector who they're working with. Go on the internet, look at reviews, talk to, you can always go and talk to vendors. Vendors are all more than happy to talk to you. They're also a great source of information. They might be to tell you about new technologies. There might be efficiency that can be introduced. There might be many things that they can advise on. Excuse me. So what you would then do, you would go out to the vendors, you would tell them exactly what you're looking for, they would then respond to you and you would then evaluate those vendor responses. And you would judge those based on your values, what's important to you, what represents best value to you. Again, it might be all about cost. It might be quality. It might be about something different, but that's up to you to decide what's important for you. And so long as it's objective and you can be held accountable that you have been objective, I think for a vendor's perspective, that's all they want. Then when you've chosen your vendor, you've then got to negotiate with them and award the contract and the negotiation. It might be the new negotiate terms. It might be the payment terms. It might be the longevity of the contract. It might be many things, but you've got to know what you want out of the contract and be prepared to challenge the vendors. And then the last part of this is the sourcing goods and services, the actual implementation. It's a new contract. It's a new vendor. He's actually working with them. They've got experience of rolling out whatever goods and services to companies. That's what they do all day long. Work with them, help them, or let them help you to make the implementation the most successful. One of the biggest issues is you can go and do the best deal of the world, but if it's not implemented properly and people aren't using it, it's a waste of time. It's a waste of time you're running the sourcing exercise. It's a waste of time the vendors even getting involved. So let's just look at some quick tips. So tips for sourcing. I've just mentioned involving the internal stakeholders from the beginning. That is crucial because about then it won't be successful. You've got to review previous purchases to identify that any new efficiencies and more importantly, reduce waste and redundancy. You might find previously that you were buying something that no one's using. You might find that you're buying too much or something. So if you can reduce it, that's improving in efficiencies. It's also reducing the cost. Again, provide the vendors with as much detail of exactly what you're looking for as possible because that's going to be really helpful to the vendors. Have a clear objective scoring criteria for vendor assessment. Have that before you go out and talk to the vendors so that when they come back, you know what you're assessing them against. I mentioned previously negotiate. If you don't ask, you don't get. The worst the vendor can say is no to you, and then you can then move on if you're happy with them. If you're happy with what they've offered you, fantastic. It comes out. It's one of those things. Read the vendor contract before signing and be clear about any buyer or seller obligations and importantly, key dates. One of the things what bug bears at me working in procurement is that not everyone actually bothers to respond to vendors who haven't been successful. So one of the most important things is treating vendors as you'd want your old people to be treated. And remember feedback to gift. If somebody's taken the time to respond to you, to a sourcing activity you're running, it's taken them time. They've made an effort. They want to know why they haven't been successful. Perhaps they can use your feedback next time. They can be successful with either maybe yourselves or with somebody else. That's obviously that's important to them. One of the other things is run the sourcing activity towards the end of every contract for like two or three months beforehand to ensure that you get best value the next time you go out and renew the contract. So any questions at all on sourcing at the valid? Okay, I'll move on to the contract. Yeah, nothing. Any questions if I'm doing some comments here? I'm saying Kevin, Christopher, George really reiterate that negotiate and negotiate is so important. As he said, the worst that can happen is to say no. And I think the other thing that I am certainly remembering around the agreement stuff is actually from another event that Kevin had done where he really talked about waiting into the agreements potentially even like, what is like the problem you want to get solved? The outcome. So it's not just like a list of features, but to say, oh, no, we're getting this piece of software because we want to solve this explicit problem. And then you can come back six months in with your vendor and say, we haven't solved the problem yet. And together, the two of you can potentially keep tweaking to get to the problem solved because obviously that's what leads to contract renewals. Yeah, no, very true. Very true. So I think that's contract management. Go for it. Yeah, can be sure. So contract management. And I will read this. The average company loses about 9% of annual revenue due to poor contract management practices. And this is obviously for a corpora with typical profits hovering around 10% even harbing this loss can increase profit margins by 50%. That's fairly impactful if you think about it, that just by managing those contracts better, you can make such an impact on your profitability. So one of the things about contract management is a lot of companies don't do it. I've worked with FTSE companies in the UK, companies listed in the States, global multi-billion-dollar companies. And even sometimes they don't have contract repositories, which is shocking. So contract repository, you need to be keeping the essential information of what the contract is. You're getting who the contact details of your vendor. How long the contract, once the contract start date, any notice date, any notice period you need to give, any contract end date, one of the key things about notice periods is if you don't give notice in time, sometimes contracts roll over. A lot of times contracts will automatically roll over. Not in Canada or the UK, but in Belgium, if you miss a contract notice period, it renews for the term, the original term. I had one client who, it was a photocopier contract renewed for five years. Fortunately, the vendor was very decent and let us renegotiate. But it's one of those things. Contract notice periods, I can't emphasize how important it is to be on top of the list and not miss them. Again, contract end dates, if you want a contract end date is you can then plan in advance to make sure that actually you are running the sourcing activity and you're being proactive. If you genuinely, if people leave it until the end of the contract, they'll rush and they'll just go, let's renew with the incumbent. It's far easier than going out running an activity. They're leaving money on the table. Potentially it's not the right solution for you, but you're just going, well, we've always done that. Let's keep doing. I think that's one of the inertia is one of the biggest issues from a procurement perspective. That's how we've always done it. We've always worked with this supplier or vendor. It's actually, let's at least challenge it. We don't necessarily need to live, but let's challenge. One of the things also with contract management, if you can create a permanent record of active contracts and also those archives, you never know what you might need to look at an archive contract. If you've got all your documents stored there, any documents at all related to the contract, you can find them very easily, which is really important. Again, just by managing them properly and being on top of them, there is money to be saved. Here are some tips. I talked about this earlier. You've got consistency, transparency, transparent control of the contract management, creating a simple document process that everyone can follow within your organization who needs to be sourcing or managing contracts. Keep the records up to date. The last thing you want to do is find that a contract has rolled over because you haven't kept a record of it. Again, diarise those key dates so that you don't miss it. If it's more than one of you and suddenly there's two or three of you, then make sure you two or three of you are diarising. You never know when somebody might be off ill or somebody might be on holiday and you miss that date, which is very important. Evergreen contracts are one of my pet hates. They favor the vendor because they roll over on a game. I don't think there's a stat here. Companies lose three to five percent of savings opportunities because of auto-reviewing other green contracts. Again, at the last point here, if you review those contracts every two or three years, it's going to stay fresh and you'll keep on top of them. You'll keep your vendors on their toes and you'll also make sure, but actually by reviewing them and going out and sourcing every two or three years, you are getting what's right for you. You're benefiting from improvements in technology, et cetera. Any questions on contract management at all? No, no questions. Okay, fine. So, vendor management. Vendor management, 65 percent of procurement leaders say they have limited or no visibility beyond their tier one suppliers and that's the large organizations. So, smaller organizations, whether they're the procurement team or contract management team, they're going to have even less visibility. So, again, it's creating a vendor repository. It's making sure you've got the documentation that you need there, but you have all the information, the contact details, all the documentation, that documentation, again, it might be that the contract, but it will then be accreditation. So, it will be insurances, compliance. One of the things for compliance is, and I'm sure it's the same in Canada is, that making sure that your vendors are up to date on, if you're running an event and you have to have food hygiene, that your vendors have the food hygiene standards, that your vendors have the correct insurance. Preferred supplier list or preferred vendor list, one of those things that if you've got a group within your organization, if you're working with certain vendors that you've got out and you've done deals with, you need to let everyone know that they are the vendors you go to. You've got out there, you've done your due diligence, you've done a sourcing activity, you've already got a deal with best value, you need to let your employees, your colleagues know that there's a preferred vendor list and we would like you as our colleagues to use them. There's nothing worse than somebody going out there and going to work with going rogue as it were and using a vendor that hasn't been approved, you run the risk that perhaps they haven't got the right documentation in place, something goes wrong, that's your reputation and who knows what the repercussions may or may not be. Monitor performance, one of the things for any vendor is they want to know how they're getting on. I guess human nature is you only talk to people, a lot of people only talk to the vendors when things go wrong. It's also actually making sure that you let the vendors know when things go right. If you can have perhaps regular reviews every six months or so, even if it's just a quick five-minute telephone conversation, you can then feedback to that vendor we were talking about this earlier because actually the vendors, they want your feedback, they want to be able to improve the goods and services they're offering you because they'd love you at the end of the contract to review with them. So the more closely you work with them in performance, both good and bad, giving feedback on good and bad is super critical. Monitor risks, now obviously one thing of the line that we've got supply chain risk issues because of what's going on in the world. It might be various other risks, it might be financial risk, it's obviously up to you. If you feel that your vendors are potentially going to be risky, it's a question of making sure you keep a note of those risks and stay on top of it so that your colleagues, if they are going and using vendors, certainly the ones with witnesses, you've got your preferred supplies that you've made them aware of any potential risks. Again, we touched earlier, I touched earlier on ESG, environment sustainability, obviously vaccine becoming more and more important. So if you've got clients who are and you're looking greenhouse gases, you've got scope three greenhouse gases, they represent about 90% of the average company's greenhouse gases is scope three, which is your effectively your vendors. So it's going to become more and more important to actually stay on top of that and to make sure you're working with vendors who are looking after and doing the right thing when it comes to sustainability. The other thing is that in having to creating a vendor onboarding process, it can be very simple, but it might be the hold on guys, this is the documentation we require, we require you going to somebody and asking and saying yes, we want approval to add them on here and again that you add them to your preferred supplier list. So some quick tips. Again, it's creating a document creating documenting a simple process that I just mentioned. One of the things from compliance is don't just assume that because a vendor was compliant when you engage with originally that 12, 24 months later, they're still compliant, you need to make sure that they give you up to date documentation, insurance documents, accreditation, etc, accreditation, etc, so you don't put yourselves at risk vendor performance. Yep, as I said, very important from your perspective to make sure you're getting the most from your vendors and also for the vendors to help them as well. Preferred supplier list, really important so that everyone within your organization knows who you should and shouldn't be working with. Any questions on that? What I'm seeing here around is a question basically around the fact that so much of this is not the software we're using, it's not contracted software. Oh, I have an Asana monthly bill, I've got a air table, like all these software as a service providers where I never really signed a contract and number of licenses up and down all the time that staff come in and out as project ramp up and down. And what are the best practices for just auditing and keeping track of that and right sizing your licenses? Do you know what, it really is a tough one. I guess the one thing is perhaps to, are you talking as a software as a service you'll buy online or are you encouraging with the vendors? Typically, this is just buying online, so we have dramatic conversation with the The only way for you to do that would be to almost on a quarterly basis is for somebody to get literally something in your organization to turn around and review the number of licenses you have, make sure they're still active. And it is time consuming. There is software out there that does allow you to do this, to manage licenses. Yeah, if I certainly buy using the sign on to get started doing that, but yeah, that's a whole extra level of complication. Yeah, but as I said, there are some softwares out there at the moment that will do that, but at the moment their enterprise level, I'm sure at some point it will feed down and be more readily available and affordable for SMEs. But you're right, there are a number of people who have applications on their laptops or they've got subscriptions to things they don't use. And that's a difficult one is it's always a question if you're having to review with them, you're getting the invoices coming in, you can sit down and go, well, hold on, who's using this? Who's using that? Okay, let's cut it. And you've got to, I think you have got to be fairly blunt about it to make sure that if somebody's got something, they are actually using it, otherwise it's a waste of money. Yeah, no, it's helpful for living, they don't look at. So having done the sourcing, the contract management, and the vendor management, one of the things you can do is obviously say savings management, because I guess one of those things that if you're monitoring it, if you're tracking it, you can then see that you're having success. But the quote here, reducing costs is the top priority for 76.4% of cheap procurement offices, followed closely by improving operational efficiency. Cost savings has been another one priority for the past 10 years. That was in 2021, a Deloitte survey. More and more importantly now, other factors are coming in ESG, but costs ultimately, and especially the amount of inflationary times, there is pluripore pressure on people. So obviously, one of the things is if you're going out there, if you're running these sourcing activities, you want to be able to measure the savings that to your baseline, your benchmarking, this is what we're paying, now this is what we're getting, you running your sourcing activity, you can then see, okay, these are the projected savings that we expect to get. You then record those and then over the quarter, six months, a year, depending on what the milestones you want to use, you would then record what are the actual savings IT, and there are two types of savings, you've got cost reduction, something cost you $100, you've gone to a new vendor, it's going to cost you $80, that's $20 cost reduction. The other thing is you've got cost avoidance. So previously you were buying five of something, now you're only buying three of the same thing, because you've worked out efficiencies, that can be taken as a cost avoidance. So again, those are the two from the savings management, and I don't know, I'm assuming that probably not for profits, but we don't record savings management from procurement projects. I don't know what you guys do in Canada. Yeah, it's not something I have been seeing, but I've never worked deeply in IT, and I've got Kevin here in the chat who might have some experience around. Yeah, it seems like what a good question. I'm starting to see more of that as we get more exposure to the nonprofit sector of a rigid focus on cost savings, primarily because of one of the concepts we talked about before, where folks are going out and buying technology gear there and everywhere, and then someone in finance and administration takes a look at what's actually being expensed, and they're like, oh my gosh, what's going on here. I've been seeing situations, especially among smaller nonprofits, where unfortunately it can be considered an afterthought until something creeps up and surprises folks, but it is a cost for concern and an issue that I think people are starting to look at wherever. Yeah, it's one of my paints is that in the UK, I've worked with some nonprofits in the UK, and you see sometimes that they are effectively being ripped off, and it's very wrong when a salesperson's gone in there, especially when it's something on the lease, a lot of photocopies or mobiles, or it's got a long, it's got potentially a long-term contract, and you can just see that they're having the money being ripped off when you're there thinking it's wrong because actually somebody's given that money out of their own pocket to be spent on frontline delivery, and it's been wasted. So actually, yeah, if you can drive people almost to hold on, you're going to run this project, let's see what the potential savings are. Brilliant. Now let's make sure we realize those savings. There's a big difference between projected and realized savings. One of the reasons for that is a vendor, when you get their invoices, their pricing's not right, and that's one of those things that you need to check. Oh, what are they? It's a mistake. It's a mistake that happens far too often where vendors' invoices are not the prices that they said they were going to be. So let me move on now. So obviously we've talked, I've talked about the different stages, it's how do you make it happen, and I appreciate that people might go, it's not too, I don't believe it's too complicated. As I said with the example in the beginning, everyone's doing it in their own daily lives. If you can bring that into the organization you're working for, and you're already doing it, then you'll then think, well, hold on, actually, how can I do this better? What efficiencies can I bring in? Can I start saving money? Do it yourself. There are many categories. You can do it yourself, very simple. You could work with specialist consultants. There might be more complicated categories that you think, hold on, we don't have the results in-house. Let's go work with consultants who do this day in, day out, and can bring their expertise, and they can really deliver efficiencies, cost savings, etc. And the other option, and actually this one sits with both of those, is to leverage a digital solution. I've gone through the various processes today, and you're probably there thinking, how do we do it? Do we use shared drives? Do we use Excel spreadsheets? How do we do it? It's leveraging a digital solution. There are digital solutions out there. There's many digital solutions out there, probably one of them, which is the startup that I'm involved with. Any questions on that at all? Nothing new has come yet. Okay, perfect. You mentioned earlier digital solutions. So actually, when assessing any digital solution, there are three main points to consider. You touched early on the process of outcomes. Budget is very important, but the most important in my mind is people. You can have the best, most expensive, all singing, all dancing system digital solution, but if nobody uses it because it's not user-friendly, it's a waste of money. And there are some software out there that is fantastic. It's used in enterprise. It costs millions of dollars, which is not necessarily the most user-friendly. And that's the feedback that people give you. So it's actually you've got to find something that's user-friendly and people want to engage. I'll give you a quick, sir. I'm going to use the software I'm involved. It is a simple and intuitive self-service cloud-based procurement software. You can see for the images there, it's very clear what the position you're in, you're in all contract management. And on the right-hand image there is one that shows you where you are with your vendors, whether they've got documents that expired, whether you've got documents to approve, how they're performing, are they a preferred supplier or not? Is there a contract against that supplier? How was the risk rating with them? I don't know, at the end, if anyone's interested, I'll more than happily talk about obelisk till the cows come home, but another time. Thank you. Any questions at all? I'm going to look what if there's a minute. Just want to, based on that, Adam, and thanks for this great presentation, a lot of what you said is very near and dear to my heart. It speaks to a lot of things that I feel and think about the technology sector and negotiating with various vendors. I'm just wondering at a high level, what have you seen as some of the, I guess, the largest pitfalls when it comes to setting up a new partnership? I'll call it the technology vendor. I've seen a few out there in terms of getting everybody involved, having a solid business phase, but I'm just curious to pick your brain. What are some of the biggest, most common things that you feel fall down on when it comes to setting up a partnership? I think that people just aren't consulted, the users aren't consulted, so it's all very well from a high level perspective. Management or maybe a management consultant comes in and says, oh, you should be doing X, Y, and Z, unless you consult with the users on the ground who actually deal with those problems or issues day in, day out, and have come up with some, they've come up with the solutions already themselves. They're not stupid. So actually is engaging those users, what are you going to use? What's going to make your life easier? Would you use this? And then actually, when you're looking at software, is actually go and let them play with it, try it out, see if it's going to help them. They might tell Ranago, no, we don't like this, then the vendor might tell Ranago, hold on, we can make some customizations for you. So it genuinely is, it's making sure the users are brought into it because without them, it will fail every time. Anyone else talk? I think that's all I'm saying right now coming in from the questions, but yeah, I think there's some really core insights we hear here today. And I think you're totally right. It's the end users that make or break any project from the, what do you actually need to the user adoption challenge, which is of course, full separate event. We can do it at what point, but yeah, that's the training part of it. But when you talk about that consultation, because there's always this real gap between like people giving you like, here's my dream features to meet the needs of how I'm currently working. And sometimes software will say, if we all did gave a little bit news to standardize process with workflow and software, it would like, it would actually, it would work for us. Otherwise, people will often create custom solutions and that's a terrible idea. So when people go to that consultation, how do you, how do you like phrase it and make it happen where people, we set the right edge that patients where people know, it's where you've got to be careful because you said it doesn't, the processes are right for us. Now, the thing you're going to remember is your processes might not be the most efficient processes in the first place. And that, as I said earlier, inertia, this is how we've always done it. My father did it, my grandfather did it, whatever, but just because that's the way it's always been done within your organization doesn't necessarily mean it's the most efficient way of doing it now. And everything evolves. So when you go and look at a system, generally, most softwares have been designed or should have been designed with the use of the end user in mind to give them the best experience. And actually, guys, these are the steps, these are the processes. Do you need any more than that? As in realities, the simpler it is, the better. There's less to go wrong. And obviously, the more respects there are, the more costly it is, either in terms of efficiencies or dollars. So you've got to keep things as simple as possible. And then people will generally buy into it, in my opinion. Yeah, that's good advice. And so focus on what are the problems we need to solve rather than maybe those specific features, because most of us do not feature people, like we're not soft for a drill. I think these days, because we've all got smartphones, we are used, we are very different because we're used to having things, oh, it does this, it does that. Actually, stop and think, do you actually need it to do this or that? No, you don't. You want, you need to do this. What, what am I looking to get out of it? And it's, I hope we've kind of the different areas, the source in the contracts, vendor and savings management, but I've given you guys all, I guess, an idea and probably hopefully confidence that you're already doing it. And actually, you can carry on doing it. And maybe I've given you some tips that you go, hold on, if I introduce that, if I diarise important dates, that's going to make a difference. If I start, if I, you know, create somewhere that I can put on my contracts or my vendor information. Brilliant. None of its rocket science is what I always tell everyone, but it can make a huge impact on what you're doing. Yeah. And having some process around it, like a piece of software like your own, make sure you actually are just going through and doing the work. Yes. Having a software is one of those things that it's been created for you to follow a process. It's simple to use. You can't get lost. And also the other thing about software is it makes it collaborative so that if somebody is away or somebody's changed jobs or whatever, it's, it's always going to be there. But if people are the mud, a lot of people use email for sourcing processes, that person loses the couple of leaves to come. How do you know who they went out to, how the results were? How do you know what was said? You've got no idea because you've got I currently have the person who has in his calendar lots of alerts and like this contract renews at this date, like pay attention to it if I've relieved the organization, but definitely she's gone through all the time. No one else is going to follow up on that. It's very correct. Correct. And this day and age, certainly as a result of COVID, a bit like we're having this call across the continent of the Atlantic at the moment, everything is going to be online and it can be access absolutely anywhere by anyone. So that's going to be, it's going to be collaborative and it's going to be accessible and it's going to be simple to use so that either a particular professional can use it, a finance guy can use it, so that anyone can use it. And that to me is one of the most important things is making things simple and intuitive to use so that anyone can use it by following the process and getting the benefits from it. Thank you very much indeed.