 probably we are going to talk about this. And we have our esteemed panel here, Gautam and Mithuna here. And Anjani will be joining us online shortly. So just a few days back, Gautam and Mithuna, this new logistics policy was announced. So very, very quickly, if I can get your views on how do you view it, was it enough? Was it a little short, or was it very short, or it's compensated for whatever the gaps were there in the past? Good afternoon, everyone. I know post lunch session, you might be eager to have something more as a dessert. So definitely I'll put some flavor. My name is Gautam Kumar. Once again, before coming to your question, I'm co-founder of a company called Farai. And definitely they weren't allowed to sell our product. That's what I'm telling my company name. So we are working in 230 countries. We have complete delivery management software. We have started from last mile delivery, then leveraged to Long Hall and First Mile as well, working with companies like DHL to Walmart on the global level. On coming to the logistic policy, and now I will follow you your direction in the Q&A right. So definitely, if you will ask my optics, definitely it's an amazing move from the Honorable Prime Minister, his involvement. Even in 2020, I was part of U. Lee Passville from the industry's body. So I can give complete sense about the expectation. And whatever Honorable Prime Minister has given view on the entire logistic policy, that is what I have seen in the last three years. Team is working hard from the back end. They had like pool of consultants. They have pool of industries bodies, where I participated. In fact, I was one of the member in the U. Lee designing body as well, that is a unified logistic integrated platform. So definitely it's an amazing move. Because logistic is like a complete working on the shared economy. So definitely this will give amazing dimension, direction to the SMBs, large business houses, and economy to India as well. Definitely I'll add a lot of labor if you'll have further question on this. But over here, through the U. Lee, I wanted to talk more because it's a unified layer of integrated technology. So definitely like starting from the sellers to transported to the buyers, the end consumer. Everyone is coming on the same platform. And everyone is getting the right KPIs, right matrices while you are going to do deliveries in the physical manner. But you should have digital touchpoints where you can measure, you can predict delivery, you can communicate. You're end consumer, end buyer in amazing manner. At the same time, the largest benefit for all the operating company would be where at least you can have booking of the empty trucks. Earlier there was hell of empty trucks were moving on the road. Now you can sell the volume of the empty truck while they are returning to the different location after delivering goods. So definitely it's an amazing move. And we are talking about five trillion economy, bringing logistic cost, 8% of the five trillion. Definitely it's a huge number, like a $400 billion number. So definitely countries moving in different direction. And government is pushing very hard. So personally, I'm quite happy. And my views are also very good because this will support 40 million mid-market players, small market players in India to grow in their business because of this move. Thank you. Mithun, your views. Hey, guys. I'm Mithun. I'm the CEO of Blohon. We do intracity logistics, a quarter million deliveries every day, and we operate in a hundred cities. Even prior to Blohon, I have worked a fair bit in logistics almost like one and a half decades. So I'm fairly conversant with the policy. And the good thing about the policy is it lays out a framework. A framework for coordination between various departments, state departments. The key issue with India is if you go to any Indian port in terms of productivity, I think we do as many moves as maybe a Japanese port or a Rotterdam port and so on. So we have very highly productive ports. We have decent highways. We have decent hinterland connections. But the key issue always tends to be the coordination between the various ministries, let's say, within the port to the customs and from the customs to the hinterland and the railway ministries and so on. The coordination was the missing piece. And what this policy does is takes it by the scruff of the neck, the problem, the elephant in the room, which is coordination, and lays out a framework for many things to come together. So in that way, it's a very optimistic policy. It's a great policy. And again, the biggest opportunity is the biggest challenge, which is getting all the government bodies to work together. The other good things about the policy is, I agree, it's kind of mediumish. It's not too short. It's not too long, but it covers a fair bit of pieces. But the good things is it also covers things like drone deliveries and so on. I feel that logistics is a high-intensity business. So what logistics does is it creates a lot of jobs in ancillary sectors. And they're not just focused on roads and multimodal transport parks and so on, which is obviously the bones of logistics. But they're also focused on the new age pieces like drone delivery and so on, which is very exciting and interesting for the logistician. Okay, all right. So this one major aim of the policy which the prime minister also spoke about is that it is to bring down the cost of logistics from around 14, 17% that we have to around 8% as is in the developed markets nations. So what does it really mean for the logistics player? Because isn't it, does it mean a small market or a competitive market because the time's going down? So explain us that what does it really mean for players like you? Gautam, maybe start. Yeah, no, it's a very interesting thing. In fact, like I was also addressing yesterday, one of the media house and great question. So lastly, if somebody's talking about less money doesn't mean low revenue, right? It's all about definitely market is very challenging competitive, right? But at the same time, when you are going to get integrated, when you are going to talk about efficiency, when you are going to increase the revenue to all the stakeholders mapped in the value chain, then definitely your total cost will go down like a shared economy. We have seen Olaf, Uber of the economy, right? Because you are going to increase the facility. You are reaching customer at the right place. You are leveraging orchestrating technology to have the benefit to have the benefit to the individual. So definitely, it will leverage to small players, individuals and the way economy is growing, time will come where you will see working closely with O and D C as well. Government has launched like open network digital commerce sort of UPI sort of layer. What I have seen, like now, individual sellers sitting in a small places like Midnapore or Nasik, they can also think about how we can sell product not only in different part of the country, but we can also sell those product, you know, handcrafted item to the part of Manchester, London, New York, Washington and all right. So definitely, you know, you will have better access to the market. You will have good control on the price. So, you know, as per me, because economy is growing, talking about trillions, five trillions, honorable prime minister has given the direction and definitely would be talking about close to $400 billion of the organized market. Rather, I'll say earlier it was not organized. Now it's looking like that. We are talking about the organized market. So definitely, there would be pressure to improve the quality, but at the same time, you will have access of lot of buyers and then you can think about, you can increase your revenue, you can increase your EBITDA as well through that challenge. Okay, it's a very interesting question that I think the broad answer is the pie will increase significantly. So even if we are trying to bring the cost of logistics down, the pie will be much bigger as we go through the journey. So net to net, I think companies will do better, but the real constraint of taking logistics costs from 14 or 13% to 8% is also limited by geography. So if you look at the countries which have 8% logistics costs, which is possibly the states, to some extent they are 9% to 10% or Germany, which is 8%, they have a very organized inland waterway. Now the cost of moving goods on the inland waterway compared to road is 1 20th. So what that does is if you can transfer some of your goods by sea or by water in any form, you tend to kind of bring those efficiencies back into play. But the bigger advantage of India is actually it's a peninsula of country. So coastal shipping should take off in a big way. If we have to come from 13% all the way to 8% or even as per to come close to 8%, we have an advantage of coastal shipping, but at the same time, we have a regulation which is very backward. It's in the US, it's called the Jones Act. So we have a slightly protectionist regulation on the coastal shipping. So if you're able to unlock that and even focus on river movement and so on, and on top of that, at the next low intensity mode, which is rail, and then focus on roads as well, coming together, then the mix of all these three things, you might aspire to come to close to 8%. But if you ask me honestly, I think it will be very, very difficult because I think the infrastructure has to catch up significantly in a short term to kind of come to that. But it's a very good not star to guide the country to kind of move in the direction of 8%. But we've also heard that these, not to look at the logistics policy standalone, but it gets integrated with Sagar Mala, Bharat Mala and others. So what you're talking about the inland and coastal, this thing, if that gets implemented, do you think still will be difficult because of the size of the geography? I mean, I'll give you an example which is quite popular, right? So many people use this. So we have like massive medium to low quality coal supplies in the east of India. But even then we have to import coal, right? So it's all a function of moving goods in the most efficient fashion, right? And sometimes it just so happens that the logistics cost is cheaper. So I think this is a great move, but we have to be realistic. I feel there are a lot of beautiful things to be done, but if just the governments can talk together, all the departments can talk together, I think we can achieve that goal much faster than we anticipate. Coordination seems to be the issue. I just wanted to add, right now if you'll see in 24 hours the average truck, the maximum truck movement rather I'll say is like a 300 to 325 kilometer in 24 hours. If we'll take the example of European country, it's close to north of 700 kilometer in 24 hours. So definitely there is a big challenge on the regulator, that is government, right? To enforce all those regulations now, government is having fast tag as a tracker through the tool booth. Another layer is like a GST portal where like EVA is having data of source and destination. Another one is EVAhan. Just only by integrating all those layers, definitely government will also work and working from the back end. How to start some of the green corridor in India and definitely it won't happen overnight. It needs participation from industry's bodies, from small market players and definitely government is also taking this challenge to be very honest and that's what like policies talking about and all those like big corridor has been opened up with the name of Malas and all right and that's what government has also started 35 multimodal ports over there. So definitely these things will orchestrate and this will result into achieving those targets in a very cost effective way and in a very efficient way. Thank you so much. Just to your point about coal, I think it's more about the calorific value of the coal because of which we need to import coal rather than the availability of the coal. So I understand what you mean but yeah there is a difference in that example. I agree. But I'll go to another thing that you talked about is about the pie, that whether the pie is increasing or decreasing. So with increasing internet penetration and growing awareness and we have these witnessed online commerce proliferating to the remote corners of the country. While it is understood that it means opportunities for logistics players as well, but there are challenges also as you said in the hinterland. So what can we do about that to solve that problem with? Okay, so the way I understood your question is under penetration in smaller towns. Yeah, I mean obviously when we think about decreasing the logistics cost, but still as you said that hinterland still remains decently developed. So what are the challenges there that you're facing and you would want to be addressed? Funnily enough, at least for Blohan, our Tire2Tire3City network is growing about three to four times that of our Taiwan cities in terms of growth. And what actually worked for the hinterlands was COVID coming in. And a lot of people moved back home and they started ordering online and so on. And companies had to catch up and they had to do deliveries to Tire2Tire3Cities including us. And we saw that habits changed in the past two years. And this is not a new pattern, right? So after the SARS pandemic in Far East, e-commerce took off in a big way. So there are some good tailwinds on the technology and adoption front. What would help is I think if Indian government also focuses on India Post and finds a way to leverage the beautiful network and the amazing coverage it has, that would be very interesting. And I read somewhere that Indian railways, the length of Indian railways is almost like 90, 95% the length of Chinese railway system. But the good intensity on Indian rail is much lower. So I think that is one more key to unlock the hinterland value, right? But DFC is coming up for that. Come again? DFC is coming up. Dedicated freight corridors are coming up. I mean, yeah, it's been there for a while as a concept, but hopefully this policy will supercharge that. Okay, okay. Gautam, in terms of technology, do you think it's easier to serve India compared with Bharat? India comparison too? With Bharat, I mean as in rural India. So Bharat, I know like you're talking about old era or new era? Bharat still is the same. You go out there. I come from one such place. No, so what I'm going to consider like you're talking about India equal to Bharat plus Delta, that is the new one, right? So definitely technology is backbone to India and I'll touch upon India post and different thing when like recently it's traveling to US and you know, like even personally it was surprised after seeing the growth of India, you talk about COVID system, you talk about payment gateways, the seamless payment that government has created. So definitely we have a lot of technology capital in India and government is leveraging that. In fact, last to last week, I was addressing to almost 35 postmaster general of Asia and what Mithun was talking about India post definitely the way Japan came with joint venture with Rokete and that is like a e-commerce company in Japan and Japan post, they started collaborating and that's what like in China, the way Alibaba is using that, the entire network, definitely it will take a lot of time to India post. Now we have amazing coverage and definitely if you'll ask me from the tech perspective, the only thing you will have to add technology, infrastructure is ready, people are ready, they are trained, they are using WhatsApp and different applications. So but only thing, you know, your customer sort of Walmart, Amazon wants the visibility, you know, so they can communicate better to their customer. So definitely government is investing and time will come where like India post will be serving to the rest of the e-commerce players of the globe and definitely that would be much faster, much richer, much cheaper as well and at the same time in the reverse way, you know, time will come where like there would be a lot of JVs created along with the way we are growing in any economy is growing. Definitely it will serve to O and D C, 40, 45 million sellers will come on the platform, they will have buyers from the different part of the country, further like it will enhance because government like honorable prime minister were talking for the exempt policy as well as export import policy, I'm sure like Icegate would be integrated with you know, a lot of systems from the tech wise and definitely these things in Europe where we are working with companies like Finland post, leave that even in mid-list what we have seen working with Emirates post and all, everything is integrated. Now government is ready, data are there in the silos, we have everything like Aadhaar OTP verification, you know, to all those like GST, FASTag, Vahan, you can integrate everything, you can take decision within fraction of the second and you can move the statement. So definitely technology would be one of the biggest lever to optimize the cost but rather I will advocate everyone is getting bigger revenue while you're going to optimize the cost and that's what like ULIP is one of the great move from the government and Niti Ayog has orchestrated well and now like I'm sure it's looking like companies like Blowhorn companies like any operating company in India blew the RTT receipt, might be getting benefit while they're delivering shipments because the per day number of miles, per hour number of miles has been increased significantly and the way like because of the geopolitical issues fuel prices are rising, you have not seen that the courier prices or delivery prices are rising because of that, you know, efficiency that government is bringing into the system. Yeah. Thank you.