 So we actually have two presentations, we're going to go first and then the second one will go and then we'll do Q&A at the end of both presentations so we have time. So to start off, my name is Jenny Wong-Wolch and I'm here with... Kevin Jeffery. And we're presenting the ROI of sustaining an academic library makerspace. Alright. So the first part is, our makerspace is known as Build It. It is the makerspace at San Diego State University Library. It has been around for about three years now. It was established in February 2015. Let's see, what do we have? We have all the basics that you would find in your makerspace such as 3D printers, 3D scanners, different types of electronics. We have a desktop CNC machine, an electric cutter, sewing embroidery machines, all sorts of tools, supplies, computers, oh, and VR headsets. Somehow that always gets lost. In that, the services are offered for both students, staff and faculty of SDSU. So we're not open really to the community or alumni as a heads up. We offer a free 3D print service to that community where you can print up to three hours every week. And we do, to enter B in the room, we require that you go through orientation and then we do trainings for the machines afterwards. So I think that's a brief overview of our space. So when people ask me how did we start, I really kind of struggle with defining how it came about. And I stumbled upon this article in American Libraries Magazine published back in September last year. And it really kind of sort of felt like that's what it is. It's tactical urbanism of just, look, I started with a 3D printer. I just popped up in our 24-7 area and said, hey, do students have interest in this? And then from that demand, I went to my administration and said, look, students are interested in it. They then gave me a group study room in that area. So I had about, it was like 120 square feet, real small, one 3D printer. And then slowly I kind of just grew. So I'd find some space and said, look, we need more space. We all do this. Let's move here. And then our very final space currently is a very sort of public space where we have windows facing the campus quad is the way I say it. So lots of people can see us. But this sort of these bullet points sort of really entail what it takes to just start up a maker space from your own. And I think the one that I really, it's the last one that really sticks with me is the willing to start small and even potentially stay small. That sort of stands with me. So after I had my space, some tools, equipment, the next part was about building community, which is actually the most important part of a maker space. You can set up all this space and equipment and then it'll be an empty room. So the way we do it is when I first started, I realized I can't be in the room at all times. I'm the STEM librarian actually have liaison responsibilities. I can't sit and stare at a 3D printer. And so, and it started with the students being engaged and their interest. So I offered them where if I said if you volunteer three hours every week, you can use the printers and you can use the printers for other work. You can use the space after hours and you get the opportunity to meet people outside your major, gain work experience while you're on campus with me. And it's been the most rewarding part about sort of the maker space. Sort of moving along those lines. Okay, I got three. I have about 30 students every semester that volunteer. How the heck do you get them in there? And so Dan Peek did a TED Talk where he talks about the puzzle of the motivation. How do you get people to be motivated to want to do something? And he really says intrinsic motivation is based on autonomy, mastery and purpose. So my students that volunteer, I actually call them master builders, sort of a play on the Lego movie. But we really sort of embrace these three turners. I give them autonomy. So they have ownership of the space. Do you see something you want to change? Let's do it. You want to create a door counter for the door based on our Arduino? Tell me what you want and we'll do it. Should we put a skateboard rack so skateboarders are not laying around and you want to build it? Okay, let's do it. And mastery. So we do. I require the student volunteers to have no experience. Like you are not required to have experience. Yeah, I just want to be interested. And so I create instruction for them to learn how to use a machinery and they're supposed to practice using it and master how to use a 3D printer and fix it. And purpose. So to be in that space, I individually go with them and we talk about what is the purpose of a makerspace? Why are you here? We really talk about focusing on education. Sharing our experiences with others and knowing what they have to give to the conversation. And so that sort of really creates them and keeps them motivated. So many of these students I've known for about three years now, the whole time we've been there and they come back. There's a great article, makerspaces, a beneficial new service for academic libraries, question mark by Robert Curry. And he really talks about, he reviews the library literature about makerspaces. And the literature basically we focus on starting up. We focus about how to get space, what equipment we put in it. But what other services are really sort of beneficial about putting in a makerspace? And what I've come to embrace is sort of the librarian role. So I'm embedded. So he gives the question, can librarians provide an embedded service in that space? I'm there. You can see I'm talking with the students. I know them one on one personally. And there's a really sort of, they develop a relationship with me where it's not just, I'm volunteering and it's 3D printer. I see them from their course questions. I have, I'm having problem with my homework or I need to find sometimes an article. They actually do that. Or, you know, I'm having social issues, everything. And that's really sort of the role of the library. And to be engaged with the students drastically. So now Kevin's going to talk about the investment we put into our makerspace. Yeah. So the investment is pretty modest. We have right now about six students working a total of 30 hours per week in the space. So student assistant workers. And we have $8,000 a year of a dedicated budget. That's been the case for the last few years, which in the grand scheme of the library budget isn't a great expense. Although, maybe my Dean would disagree. I don't know. But, and the biggest expense are the 0.75 FT librarians, specifically Jenny. But when you look at that expense, I mean, Jenny's kind of a sunk cost in that we hired her to liaise to the STEM disciplines. And arguably, the makerspace brings those disciplines into the library. It brings their professors in. So she's doing her job just by, you know, keeping the space open and keeping it active. So it's a little hard to consider her a complete expense for the makerspace. And space isn't such a big issue. You know, we're a big sprawling library with contracting collections. And we've been able, with the help of Mark, our facilities manager, to carve some space in the library for makerspace. Okay, so we started looking at how to measure return on investment. So looking at the literature on this, it's kind of hard to look at something like a makerspace and say, for every dollar you invest, you're going to get $5 back or something like that. So we started looking at what the libraries see as return value. And we see things like bringing people in the door, community engagement, getting celebrated by campus. Those are some of the things we value as a library. So we looked at SROI, kind of the social return on investment, which considers some of those intangible elements. So that's, and we haven't completely done this math yet, but this is kind of how we're kind of framing it. And if anyone were to ask us to justify the expenditure, we would probably look at it from this, using this method. Okay, so one of the tangible values are the volunteer hours the master builders put in. So I don't know about anyone else, but I've never heard students investing their own time, volunteering their own time to keep a library service desk open. It's certainly not the case with our circulation or reference desk. But the students do volunteer to sit at the desk and welcome people. They consult on the different services and machines in the library. So we have up to about 40 students per semester volunteering. In fall 2016, they've volunteered about 114 hours each week to keep the space open. And right now, currently, it's about 90 hours. We had a bit of an hour contraction. So that's a real tangible value that we can measure. We also support unique services at the university. So almost 30% of engineering students use the makerspace for their engineering design day in 2017. We've also had 100 astronomy 101 students come into the library lately to learn about the phases of the moon. And they're also assisted by our master builders when they do this assignment. We've also had digital humanities students come in. We've had College of Ed students come in to learn how to teach in a space with technology. They brought the elementary school students in to kind of work through some of these methods of teaching. We've had theater arts students come in. So there's been a real, there has been a measurable support of the curriculum. All right. So one tangible thing, another tangible thing is just the space to try and access new technology. So like I said, we do require everyone to come in. And when they come in, they have to have gone through orientation. That's for safety reasons. Also, I'm not always there. So that way the student volunteers know everyone here should know the basics of what's going on in the room. We started doing orientations about a year and a half ago. So in a year and a half, we've had almost 400 people go through orientation. And then of that, 178 took their time to individually learn how to use a 3D printer. And it kind of goes on further from that. So we have the cutting machine, 57 people did it. Our CNC machine, 51. And then our sewing machine is 43. So the training sessions are where we individually go through. We have them a short lecture. And in that lecture, we actually infuse information literacy standards. So we'll talk about why is a 3D printer a better open source versus proprietary and your file extensions. And what does that actually mean? Then we go and actually use the machine. And then we end with them doing it. So great we talked, but I actually want to watch you and we're going to step through it where you're going to drive and 3D print something. Okay. So another one of the intangible values are recognition by campus. So our marketing communications group has celebrated the makerspace in articles and videos. They place it online and they used to promote the university. California State University, our greater system has done the same. There's also been some exposure to the broader media. So how do you put a value on that? How much would you pay to get kind of this exposure? There's also been cases, you know, the university president has come in with a donor and kind of shown off the space. So what kind of value do you put on that? What kind of event would you have to hold to bring the university president or administrators into your library? And there's also recently the provost has asked whether there are any internship opportunities in the makerspace for his teenage daughter. So those are kind of the exposure elements like how do you measure that value? I don't know, but you probably can. So another intangible value, just engagement with the university community in a new way. So let's see. The first picture in the top left is a student showing off to donors. The project he's done. So actually having donors talk to students. So a different type of engagement. And the students learning how to talk, how to represent your ideas and your information, your project in a way that we'll get sort of money. You'll get money. There's a tactile feeling to it. I've done outreach events for parents of teenage girls who will potentially want to send their students or daughters to San Diego State. How do you actually put value on different ways to connect with the course curriculum? So you can say we had these classes come in, but the benefit that really came from it, all those different courses, they add up, but there's more to that value. And then we've done outreach events where we've been asked to participate in like a mini maker fair through our College of Education to talk about maker spaces with the community at a science center. We've had our instructional technology services. It's a new way for us to connect with them. They basically drawn the traffic from the faculty and then they send the students to us. All right. Also, so within our strategic plan, we do have sort of this goal to contribute to the advancement of the San Diego region. So my students, I asked three years, I think they've gone to the maker fair or local maker fair in San Diego. We have done lots of camps. So camps and outreach events for students, specifically middle school girls. So I do a girls tech camp during the summer where they get to come and I have them for two days. And then I have partnered with the College of Education to host their camps and then the Boys and Girls Club of San Diego, all sorts of different groups just coming in and sort of the benefit from that. Okay. So it's also very easy to thankfully our library service pledge and our library strategic plan that we introduced about three years ago. Mentioned innovative technologies, state of the art technology innovation and the technology tools and staff supporting 21st century teaching and learning. So it makes it very easy to tell the story of the maker space and relate it to the goals and the mission of the library. So thanks for putting that into the strategic plan by the way. And then finally, the most difficult one I feel like, how do you measure student engagement? So Ray, I have, what, I think I've had about almost 120 student volunteers at one point. They've all come through some stay some go. But I've had students from, I said earlier, for three years. I've seen them grown develop from like baby freshmen to now seniors going off to graduate school or one has an internship with NASA this summer. And sort of the community that they build. So we carved pumpkins one Halloween because we had a refugee student from Syria who had never done it. And it was like, let's do that. And there's connections that it's hard for me to step back from where now they'll go, let's go to Disneyland together or we're close to Mexico. So let's go to Mexico together, these friendships that they've gained. And it really helps them develop skills that they wouldn't develop in their courses. So by having this sort of mediated community in a way where I'm present, I guide them and get them structured, but they're developing as well. They're gaining career readiness skills and that work experience. How do you deal with different personalities? So you're all sitting very close to each other for the most part in here? Well, this is what they do every day and they see each other. So if someone's getting on their nerves, how are they personally going to deal with that and work with them in this tight small space? And then academics, of course, they're learning stuff prior to even taking a course on it. I had a student who is an art student, but she was a year out from taking Adobe Illustrator. Well, we're in the makerspace. I need a graphic design person to do a sign for me. Let me show her and she can learn it and learn it basically before that class. And finally. Okay. So when we look back at what we think has made the makerspace a success and what's made it sustainable. So there are these ideas I think Jenny mentioned earlier. So the idea of kind of stolen from software design of the perpetual beta. So not being afraid to let things fail or to try different services and to get lots of feedback from your users. So in our case, the students. So yes, just the idea that's iterative process and if something works out. Well, we just maybe won't mention that on the website anymore and do something different. There's also, I was reading something about the banana principle, the idea that the easy to eat fruit will go first from the fruit bowl. You know, so the one with the handle and the wrapper that doesn't squirt juice everywhere is the one that gets taken before the orange. So I think when Jenny set up this service, you know, students can go into the space. They can talk to one of the master builders and quickly print off a 3D object and then walk away and never come into the space again. Or they can do the same thing online. So it's very easy to get involved. Or if they want to get more involved, they can take a 30 minute orientation and then they can use the space themselves and then start taking other orientations to use more of the equipment. So let's kind of easy access to the space and kind of being willing to try different things. And then the idea of grassroots deployment. So it started off very simply. It was a lot of things that are done are student driven or have been things students are interested in. There are some students early on were building 3D printers from kits. So they kind of drove the 3D printing and that idea of hands-on engagement. So that idea of the mastery that comes so that students do all the work. They implement a lot of the things that build it does and they're always willing to give advice to their colleagues. That's a great picture. This is an art student and an electrical engineering student working together, which is kind of a great cross-pollination. So they do peer-to-peer instruction and they're a little annoying and they always tell me I'm doing things wrong in the space. So there's a real ownership of the space, which I think is really great. So just those are the things I think that keeps building going and open and hopefully into the future. So the last one is our question slide in our bibliography, but we'll hold questions to the very end. So we're going to have the next presentation come up. Sure. So thank you for coming today. Here's the second part of the presentation. I'm Jean Ferguson. I'm the Learning and Research Communities Librarian at UC Berkeley. Hi, I'm Owen McGrath. I'm Associate Director for Educational Technology Services at Berkeley. And we're going to talk to you today about working with students, actually partnering with students in a maker space that we have at Moffitt Library at UC Berkeley. All right. So just to give you a little bit of background about Berkeley, we have about 30,000 undergraduate students. We have 24 libraries. And one of the really interesting things about Berkeley is that we have a really vibrant student club environment. And so there are about 1,000 different student clubs that span everything from Greek associations to arts and culture to languages to technologies, everything under the road that you can think of. And then sprouted out of that, there's another ecosystem called DeCal's, which stands for democratized education at Cal that started in the 70s. And there are actually one to three credit courses that are taught by students that are often offshoots from a student club. And what we saw from that were a lot of student clubs teaching things like 3D printing or building and flying drones or things like that, which is interesting. Quick history. So every institution has its unique context. In our case, we actually embarked on this journey as a partnership almost four years ago now, as like everyone else who was starting to hear about maker spaces and wanted to think about what that would mean at Berkeley. In particular, I think we really get serious about this when we heard that Berkeley was going to open an institute for design innovation. And the goal of that would be to permeate design thinking across the discipline. That opened, it succeeded. It's in a sense a giant four story maker space in and of itself with even very high end fabrication tools. So we aligned with them very early on, talked to them about their curricular goals, but also realized that they were going to treat, they were going to have their hands full with a certain population of students and faculty. And we knew that the library wanted to make sort of broader access to everyone. Maybe someone wasn't enrolled in a design thinking course, but really just wanted to find out about it. So we embarked on a process, talked to a lot of these student groups that Gene mentioned, found out what they'd done on their own, what gaps there were, and started to shape into some basic services that we could offer at an entry level. What we saw was missing was a place that anyone could go. If you're clever and smart, maybe in your third year you found out you had an interest in something, you could possibly get into this or that lab or this departmental maker space, but there was nothing to serve everyone. And so we applied for money from the students themselves, actually. They imposed a technology fee, and when we said we'd like to have something with very low barrier of entry, they were happy to fund our pilot. So let me tell you about all the different partners that goes into creating this space. So the base is really where the maker space is located. It's in Moffitt Library, which is our undergraduate library on campus. It's a five-story building built in the 1970s that really had almost nothing changed up until a couple years ago when we did a renovation. So it was sorely needing some new life in the building. So we renovated the top two floors. Mainly it's collaborative space and study space. It's incredibly popular with students. I get the complaints from Moffitt Library, and the complaints are always about, I can't find a seat. And then I talk to them about the other 23 libraries on campus that they might like to go to. So our second phase of the renovation is to look at the bottom three floors. And we're calling it the Center for Connected Learning. It's really about active engagement, where we want to lend the expertise of the librarians and also our campus partners to undergraduates that are looking to discover new methods, new technologies, new kinds of scholarship. So the maker space is one of those experiments towards that plan. So I mentioned that I'm not a librarian. I'm from educational technology, and we had a long-standing partnership with the Moffitt Undergraduate Library just for historical reasons. We were providing technology support there. In particular, we had a drop-in computer lab in the basement. And probably the story is the same at your schools. Drop-in computer labs have sort of faded away in their relevance over the years. And we were actually starting to think about shutting this one down and realized that instead there was an opportunity to do kind of a transformation. So that's sort of the service part of the story. And you'll see that there's kind of a service aspect and a student group aspect as we go along. And so in addition to some of the great technologies that our colleagues from San Diego State mentioned, you know, you start with 3D printing and that sort of thing, Arduinos, the electronics that can be made easily available in a workshop mode. So you demystify electronics for someone by showing them how quickly in a two-hour workshop they can build something, even something that just blinks initially, but then you point them off to the possibility of electronic wearables and that sort of thing. Looking again for entry-level opportunities to welcome people into making and clearing away the curtains. You don't have to be an engineer to do this. You don't have to be a computer scientist. So our third partner is Student Affairs IT. And they're an IT organization on campus that mainly services tech support for students and historically was primarily housed in the residence halls. And so they had computing and printing centers and they did tech support in the dorms, but really didn't have a central place. And so when we renovated the fourth and fifth floors, that was one big benefit, was they were able to open a desk on the fourth floor that's open to everybody. But they still wanted to revitalize what they were doing in the residence halls. So they decided to basically do like a traveling show, a traveling maker space. So using the same technologies that they're using, they're either hiring or training up students that they have and providing 3D printing workshops or Arduino workshops. And it's really a gateway for us to bring students, especially freshmen, that live in the residence halls to let them know about the maker space in Moffitt and to bring them over to us as a gateway. You want to talk about B Maker Space? You want me to? Okay. So B Maker Space is our student partner and our fourth partner. So this was a total surprise, something that fell into our laps. So Owen mentioned that we applied for a student technology fee grant. And at the same time, there was a collective of student clubs around design and making that were looking for a home. So they had had a space in a building in the engineering school that they were getting kicked out of. And they approached us and said, could we partner with you and could we also be housed in your space in the library to continue what we're doing? But we had to come up with a lot of agreements with them about the fact that the library is open to the entire community. It's open to all undergraduates. Any technology that we have available needs to be open for everybody to use. And they were completely on board. It was with a little bit of trepidation that we formed our agreement. But it's been a really good partnership. So the Makeup of B Maker Space are really a group of student clubs. Students graduate. And so as the years turn over, things change a little bit. But some of the clubs that have been involved are a 3D printing club. Interestingly enough, they decided to include a group called Blockchain at Berkeley who I wouldn't necessarily consider a design club, but they felt like this was a good addition. And they're very active in the space and offer all kinds of workshops on Blockchain and other things like robotics and also drones. So one of the things that they've done is they hold regular events. RSR are a little bit more systematic where we have 3D printing workshops or Arduino workshops. There's kind of crop up and it's kind of based on what they're interested in or what their clubs propose. So one of the very popular ones has been a VR happy hour where it's just come down and try it out and just gets the interest of a lot of students in trying out virtual reality. And just to add here, we knew even four years ago when we started talking to student groups, that the knowledge, the experience, the wisdom was actually at this level. It was in the student groups. When I started in academic IT, the university was this amazing place you went to to find technology and it was delivered to the students and there's been a reversal, particularly in the making era. So it's so exciting to have these students here showing us the way. Particularly in this case, the VR clubs set this up. We helped arrange their area, but we quickly took note of which VR technologies they were favoring, we'd asked them about them, and in fact decided we'd better build up our staff capacity in this area. And six months later, as we'll talk about in another slide, we were prepared then when an instructor came to us and said, I'd like to do VR with my class. So it's a wonderful reversal here. The resources and wisdom they bring to us. So how does this work? How do we actually partner together with the very structured side of library and ETS and then with our students? We started with a memorandum of understanding where we spelled out who owns what equipment and what happens if you leave and what happens if it breaks and what space can be allocated for the student clubs to use and the fact that it's still open even though they're planting their things there. One of the best things that we did and it just kind of happened was to ask them to appoint a student leader. So we started with, I think we had seven clubs to begin with and we knew that we weren't going to be able to talk to each of them individually. So they appointed one person. They named the president, the person that was the president had something good to put on their CV. And then we set up a regular meeting time with them. So it was just that kind of operational structure was incredibly helpful. We have meetings every two weeks or at least we try to have meetings every two weeks and this is where we get the input about what's working, what's not working, what do we need to change. We've also been able to hold these workshops in partnership with a furniture dealer that we work with at UC Berkeley and they're really interested in design thinking and what do maker spaces mean in the furniture world and so they've been able to come in and hold a few blue sky. If you had a million dollars, what would you do with this space type workshops where we've had participants from all the different student groups? One of the side benefits is they don't necessarily talk to each other. They've got their president that communicates with them but they're not necessarily working between them and so a couple times we've been able to pull them together and really look at what are the connections between their groups. So the second year that we worked with them, I mentioned this before, we were really surprised when everybody graduated and suddenly we didn't have a student president and so in July of last year I'm reaching out to the president like, I know you graduated but could you just tell me who you think would be a good person for next year and luckily we were able to find that person but this year, you know, I've already worked with the student president, Nicky and I'm like, Nicky, who's your person for next year? So you know, we're learning as it goes on about how to work with the students. So this is one of the things that kind of came out. This seems like a very boring slide of two very normal looking classrooms that happened to be on the first floor of Moffitt Library where the makerspace is located. It became quickly apparent from the students that they wanted to hold meetings and they wanted to have workshops and they wanted to have events and our space right now is literally just like a carved out corner on a big, wide open floor. So it's not a locked door space like a lot of makerspaces are and that doesn't lend itself very well to a group of people being really loud and holding an event or having a meeting. So we have these two classrooms that the library owns but that we have a deal with the registrar that the registrar can use it to schedule classes during the day. So we worked with both the registrar and the library and we came up with an agreement on how as long as we schedule it that these student clubs can use these rooms exclusively in the evenings and on the weekends when classes aren't being held. It sounds silly, but this is probably one of the best things that we do because not only do the students have access to the space to do the work that they're doing but we're getting real insight into what they're doing. I'm scheduling the room so I know what this workshop is that they're doing this totally different than anything that we've done already. We have one group, this is an unusual group too called Food Innovation. It's sort of technology meets food and they had a chocolate challenge where they were like hacking chocolate. I don't even know what that means. Yes, exactly. Let's do an experiment to see what's going on. Okay. Right, so you get the sense that we have the student groups but then we have a traditional service and my side, we have service leads. We do IT service management. We're very careful about training up students and making sure everyone on shift can fulfill the roles that we've offered. So if you're there at 9 o'clock at night the student staff person on duty you've got to know how to operate all the equipment and take notes about the users and their feedback. There's a lot of training involved which is in contrast to the way the student groups operate and the first sort of win-win side of that I just mentioned is we learn so much from the student groups to see what they're doing what they're interested in what technology is they're bringing into the space. It goes both ways though and so an amusing story is there are at least two clubs interested in 3D printing and they have managed to get a lot of equipment related to their clubs. So they have a vast array of different 3D printers they're very proud of these and we respect that but we noticed by the second year very few of them are running and we know from our side that it takes a lot to maintain these printers and we'd standardize and align with an institute on campus so we knew something about this and sure enough about a year into this we started to, it came up in a meeting that the student groups had just quietly started using our printers. They weren't ready necessarily to give away the printers which are sort of a trophy but we were able to sort of step in there and fill that role of providing infrastructure and support and so it's really wonderful to discover these arrangements. VR is another area where this is starting to happen. So moving forward where do we go from here? We mentioned that we got our original funding from a student technology grant fund proposal which was great and really got us off the ground where we are today. We've applied for a new, much larger three-year student technology fee grant and if we get it then what we'd really like to do is hire a program lead for the space. So right now it's a little bit of time of oh and a little bit of time of mine. We have somebody else that works in ETS who's actually supervising the students but it's very ad hoc. I mean the students are the real people in the space who are using the equipment and we really like to have somebody in there that's managing it and being a little bit more strategic about what happens there. One of the really great things that we were able to do this spring the library decided to hire undergraduate student fellows and we picked out four different service areas that we wanted to explore and basically gave students a stipend for the semester to work with us to explore how we could bring this service forward within the library. So we have two students working with data, two with digital humanities, two with just basic research services and two with the makerspace. I already had my students that I was working with so it was a really great way for me to be able to actually pay our student president a little bit of money for doing all the work she's doing and connecting with the different groups and I'd like to expand that moving forward. And then lastly we want to engage with more scholars and with classes. So Owen mentioned that we had the students that started the VR happy hour that kind of led to us creating much more of a VR service and then we have a digital or not digital humanities, I'm sorry art history professor that has been bringing students in. So we quickly invested some of our staff time in learning in this case the HTC Vive because the student group was using it and sure enough six months later a faculty member comes in wanting to have his class of 50 students view VR media throughout the semester and happily we were prepared for that. That's one of the students there in one of the spaces we provide in that case I think early on one of the empathy VR environments that was developed with Stanford around the homeless experience which is actually very relevant at Berkeley. But it's just wonderful that we were able to move that quickly and learn from them. So we've built up this expertise and working with student groups and we mentioned some of the campus initiatives that are going on. Two of the biggies are with Arts and Design which the makerspace has a great connection to and another is with Data Science. So we met with one of the lead faculty in the Data Science program last spring and we were just trying to figure out if there was something in the space that we could be doing that would be more around supporting data students working with data and she got very interested in this partnership with Student Clubs and said that she'd been approached by a lot of Student Clubs and they kind of didn't know what to do with them. And so we basically formed the same agreement that we have Student Clubs with these Data Science clubs. It's a little bit different in that the makerspace really has a space. Data Science it's in a different part of the same floor. It's less of a physical presence but they are providing peer support for data working with our data librarian and then also holding workshops and events in our rooms where we're getting a better picture into what's happening there. So that's been one really great outcome. And then we have, I don't know if anybody went to the presentation on the cave at UC Merced yesterday but we're okay good so we're part of the four schools that are working on that project and one of Owen's colleagues has been working with the Hearst Museum of Anthropology on their cave and they're doing they're creating 3D models of items in the Hearst Museum which is really really interesting and so he got a grant to set up another cave and he came to us and said I think we should put this in the library in this space because there's such a connection with virtual reality there's a potential of working with data we've got a gaming group I could see them using this and then also of course with digital humanities and so we're exploring the possibility of how would this work which would be different than what I heard explained from UC Merced and that we would probably want to make this more open and for people to be able to load their own content and that comes with its own questions so I guess in conclusion our overall experience I feel like we entered into this partnership with students sort of like I don't know how this is going to go they're going to be crazy and leave all their stuff around or something like that and it's been amazing I mean I think what we found is that we're really providing the operational structure of the makerspace and they're providing the innovation and really pushing us forward into looking at new technologies and it's really helping from the library's point of view it's really helping us to be more expansive and thinking about the services that we're offering I would just echo what the previous speaker said very well you approach this best if you're just open to change try things if they don't work quietly get rid of them working with students they're going to want to change up the space at least once a semester and that's exciting too but be iterative great so now we have Q&A we should bring Kevin and Jenny back thank you everybody