 Go out of their way to boost the self-esteem of their personnel. If people believe in themselves, it's amazing what they can accomplish. Thank you very much. Call the 12th regular meeting of the Common Council to order. Please call the roll. Boren. Here. Bulk. Here. Gisha. Here. Hanna. Here. Heidemann. Here. Kittleson. Here. Cleonus. Here. Manny. Here. Meyer. Here. Montemayor. Here. Renflesch. Here. Ryan. Here. Smith. Excuse. Vanderweel. Here. Verhasselt. Here. And Wongemann. Here. 15 present. At this time, we will do our pledge of allegiance. Alderman Ryan, would you lead us, sir? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Alderman Ryan. President Hannie. I mean, pan out for a little of the minutes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. Motion second to approve minutes. Under discussion. There is none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Minutes are approved. Confirmation of appointments. Attorney McLean. Thank you, Your Honor. Hereby submit the following appointments to the Business Improvement District for your consideration. Reappoint Allen Rednick, Mary Morande, Richard Grinke, and David Gas for new three-year terms to expire 9-10, 2010, signed by the mayor. As for motion to confirm. Second. Motion is second. Under discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Appointments are confirmed. And then per charter ordinance number 4-07-08, I hereby appoint William C. Balkie, the city engineer for the city of Shpoigen. Respectfully submitted. Paul White-Enders, director of planning and development. That requires confirmation. As for motion to confirm. Second. Motion is second. Under discussion. There is none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Appointment is confirmed. Public forum, Madam City Clerk. First on the list would be Joel Pfeiffer. If Mr. Pfeiffer could please come up to the podium. And Mr. Pfeiffer, I will need your home address please. My home address is 617 East Capital Drive, Heartland, Wisconsin. All right, sir, and you will have five minutes. Well, I'm extremely excited about being back in Sheboygan. Mr. You probably don't recognize me. Excuse me, Mr. Heartland. Could you pass it? Yeah, so that the TV audience can hear you. Let's start again. I'm a retired high school teacher, so I used to. I lived in Sheboygan from 72 to 77. And I taught art in Howard's Grove. And in 1976 at the art fair, which I show my own ceramic work, I traded for a doll named Emma. Emma is a retired checkout lady from the Piggly Wiggly store. And normally you'd put a piece of art up on a shelf, but I decided to take her out with friends. So we took her out throughout Sheboygan. And clearly what happened, I consider it magic. We'd walk into a place, and in fact, if I can point at you for a second, you'd win the flip and you'd bring Emma in. So what we would do is we would all go in five minutes earlier and just settle in. And then you'd walk in with Emma. And let's say if it's a place that had a drinking establishment, you'd order two drinks. And we'd watch what happened in the place. And everybody melted. And people that weren't talking to each other started communicating. And then everybody eventually came over. Well, after about a year of taking Emma out, my friends said, Joel, people are starting to talk about you. Don't you think it's time to get somebody for Emma? Well, I called the artist and did another trade for Woody. He's sitting back there. He's got a bad leg right now, so he's just resting. He's a retired bus driver. He has a three-year Safe Driving Award. He's a Rotarian. And in fact, recently, he has the Sheboygan pin on. Well, obviously, when you're going to marry somebody, I thought it'd be great to get them married. What do you do? You go get engagement pictures taken. I went to the Sheboygan Press. And Emma already had her wedding picture. And you can see on the front, this was actually from their wedding reception at the Town and Country Club. Well, I went to have their pictures taken. And they said, no way. So they said, you're going to have to talk to the editor. I went up to the editor. I believe his name was Mr. Werner. And Emma and Woody were in a garbage bag because she had her wedding dress on. And he said, how can I help you? And I said, my friends want to get married and they need their pictures taken. He said, that's down the hall to the left. And I said, no. He said, where are these friends? And I went out of the bag. He started chuckling. And he said, if you can talk, anybody into this will go along with you. So that's when I got permission from Mayor Susha to marry Emma and Woody at the water feature, which had just been finished. And he thought, what a great idea. It's called community unity to get people together. Then I put my hand on the mayor's shoulder. And I said, would you stand up in the wedding? Of course, he didn't think I was serious. But he said, sure, anything that would change the name from Sin City to community unity I support. Well, the next night I was on Channel 12 television in Milwaukee announcing that the mayor was standing up in the wedding. Well, what's coming up is on October 9th, it's Emma and Woody's 30th anniversary party. And already the excitement, certainly they're excited and they're going to renew their vows. The minister that married them is coming back. All the musicians that played former Mayor Susha and Donna, they stood up in the wedding. All the tuxedos were donated. The wedding cake was donated. All the flowers were donated. The reception, it was one of those, it became a phenomena. They had a honeymoon in Door County. And because I'm a romantic and just a dreamer, I cashed in my teacher retirement and flew to Hollywood to stay at Marty Scorsese's house. Well, that's another long story. We don't have enough time, but what's happening is that we are celebrating their anniversary. All the people are coming back and we're inviting the entire community, of course of Sheboygan and beyond, to come and share the idea of community unity. We're going to do a visual presentation of everything that took place. We're inviting the longest married couples in the area to come and renew their vows with Emma and Woody. And one of the most exciting aspects of this is an Emmy Award-winning filmmaker is coming to do a documentary on the whole celebration and also interviewing people that were there and obviously people that are experiencing it for the first time. So it's fun, it's a little bit crazy, but I think that's what we need in the world. It's something that's fun, lighthearted and that's what Emma and Woody are all about. That's how I met my wife, Mary, a friend said, you've got to invite my friend who lives in Madison. So I did, she came. We've been married 29 years. Also, some of you, maybe you have never heard of a clay stump. Sir, you're five minutes rough, but we really need the extra minute on this. Okay. Go for it. Well, thank you, thank you. Oh, no, just you. Well, I started mixing my clay in the backyard in Sheboygan and what happened after Emma and Woody, Community Unity, I started taking it out into the community. Maybe some of you have seen the Russian mural at Mitchell International Airport. I have done murals with 37 countries around the world. I do them with schools, with art centers, raw west libraries, and it's all about bringing community together and creating a work of art from basically it's transcending differences and having fun. So Emma and Woody, they kicked that off for me and my two children and everything else. So I would love to see all of you there to share in the celebration on October 9th. So thank you for your time. We're really excited about being back in Sheboygan and what's amazing is that I'm meeting people I haven't seen in 30 years. My daughter was five and my son was three. Well, do the math, 35 and 33. So I walked into someone today and I go, no, it can't be you. Thank you, sir. So thank you. Thank you very much. Next on the list would be Henry Capitillo and Mr. Capitillo, could you give me your home address, please? Yes, 1619 North 38th Street and it's in the town of Sheboygan. And you will have five minutes, sir. Okay. I suppose it's going to be a little hard passing after Emma and Woody, but I'll try to do the best I can. Council members, before I start on the issue that I came here today, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Alderman Gisha and Alderman Hanna for their dedicated efforts to work with the Sheboygan Police Department staff to work out a process by which the department will add needed patrol officers. I would also like to thank Alderman Bourne for his efforts to look at other avenues to generate additional revenue for the city of Sheboygan. One area that Alderman Bourne has identified for the potential is the numerous nonprofits within the city that do not pay property taxes, but are eligible to receive services through the city of Sheboygan, which are paid for by property tax payers of Sheboygan. Homink is a 501c3 nonprofit organization just like numerous other nonprofits within the city of Sheboygan. But the difference is that we pay property taxes and we have paid approximately $36,196 since we secured the old Anne Rice St. Nicholas office building on Superior Avenue. I am sure that other nonprofits would be willing to pay a modest public protection and safety fee to offset some of the costs that the police and fire departments incur to provide services. By doing so, they can also be proud to say that they are not receiving services from the city that are paid by the property tax payers of Sheboygan. To get to the issue that I came to discuss, I would like the council to consider increasing the personnel assigned to the Sheboygan drug unit and street crime unit. I ask this of the council because of the ever-increasing and drug-related crimes and increase of gang activity within the city of Sheboygan. To confirm this, all you have to do is read the Sheboygan press and also look at the Department of Justice Preliminary Annual Uniform Crime Report from January to December of 2006. This is the September 11, 2007 newspaper, headlines. Murder, suicide, nobody knows why. This is the September 14, 2007 newspaper and it says, five businesses burglarized in one night. Teens accused and school break-in are suspects in Wisconsin box fire. Man gets 30 years for selling cocaine. Woman charged with delivering cocaine. This is the September 5, Sheboygan press. Three adults charged for allegedly chasing and attacking teenager. Sheboygan man charged with six offense drug driving. Illegal alien charged with alleged sexual assault. Also in the crime reports through the Department of Justice for the Midwest region, violent crime in 2006 rose by 2.1%. Murder increased by 0.2%. Forcible rape, 0.3%. Robbery, 5.1%. Property crime, 0.1%. Burglaries, 4%. Larson E. Theft, 0.4%. Motor vehicle theft, 3.6%. Arson, 4.6%. These are statistics that any of you can look at and I'll leave this with the city clerk regarding and I would encourage all council members to look at this and also I would also encourage the council members to read the 2006 conference of mayor's best practices of community policing and gang intervention and gang violence that I provided to the city clerk's office during a previous presentation to the council. I provided the report on CD for your information. I would encourage all of you to look at this report and to see what other cities in all over the country that are doing regarding their gang violence and also the special community policing programs that are taking place all over the country. Look at what other communities are doing to support community policing and their efforts. Do not wait for increased violent crimes related to drug and gang activity. I would also strongly encourage any council member that has not done a ride along with a patrol unit to do so. Excuse me, Henry, would you like your additional minutes? Yes. And the reason I say this is because I don't think you really know how much problems there are within the city when it comes to gang activity and drug activity unless it really touches you. I say that because we have problems in our building. I see people coming in and a couple weeks later I look at them and they're totally different people. And the reason is drugs. Crack cocaine is unbelievable how much there is in the city of Sheboygan here. I don't think you even can fathom how much drugs are in the city. And unless you really get to know this you're not going to be able to make decisions on funding additional staff for the street crimes unit or the drug unit because you'll think, well, you know, I really don't think we have a problem but I can guarantee you we definitely have a serious problem in the city of Sheboygan when it comes to drug activity. In closing, I would like to thank all the patrol officers and other personnel of the Sheboygan Police Department for keeping our city safe and for their dedication and professionalism. Excuse me, Henry, your minute is up. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. And last on our list would be Carter Paulus and Mr. Paulus, can you give me your home address please? 414 Erie Avenue. And you will have five minutes, sir. Thank you. My congratulations also go to Emma and Woody. It's heartwarming. My subject tonight is also weird in a way or funny, believe it or not. This is in reply to a recent letter by someone that I like personally and have respected for as long as I've known him, Lee Montemire Jr. About the fire department assuming the ambulance service which was published in the press last week Wednesday and my comment to it is unbelievable. He writes, quote, fully educated, experienced and qualified firefighter slash paramedics are now in place without any extra cost for Sheboygan taxpayers, unquote, unbelievable. They may be educated, but experienced, fully experienced paramedics have to satisfy 1500 hours of service in three areas totaling 500 hours a piece. Check it out. Unbelievable. The council has published in Sunday's paper said that it is discussing a total of seven and three-quarter percent pay increases for firemen slash paramedics. Unbelievable. Does anybody know about compounded pay raises? That will be considerably more than seven and three-quarter percent over three years in dollars and cents. Check it out. Of course, the new hires will have to live in the fourth highest taxed city in the country. Good luck. The city can't even find a new finance director to live here. Unbelievable. The council has given the fire chief permission to hire up to 54 more firemen slash paramedics. Unbelievable. First it was four more. Then it went to eight. Then it was 12 or 18. Then 24. And now 54. Has everybody here lost his or her minds? Unbelievable. The fire department is going to make a profit. Unbelievable. The taxpayers are truly getting it socked to them again. They can't even afford to properly equip their ambulances. How about three or four heart monitors at 25 grand apiece? Unbelievable. They probably won't even be able to pull into the ER hospital entrances without pulling their mirrors in because they don't fit. The ambulances are too wide. Unbelievable. We just got rid of the wheel fee tax. Then the rain fee tax. Now comes the ambulance fee tax. That's how they're going to make a profit with fees, a second tax to the taxpayers. And the mayor publicly states as published in the press that he's not hearing any complaints about higher taxes with three or four million budget increases being proposed for the future. This is to satisfy more waste in this out of control government. He was elected and so were you, all of you, to lower taxes, not increase them. The taxpayers are being taken for such a ride. It is truly unbelievable. Where, where is our hero to clean up this disgraceful performance by our government and give back the Orange Cross Ambulance Service to Sheboygan? They are fully qualified, educated, experienced, and in place at no cost to the taxpayers of Sheboygan. Believe it or not. Thank you very much. Thank you. That's it. Thank you very much. At this time it is important for me to address some issues that have been brought up. The first thing that I'd like to point out that when people come and address the council, they do so and express their own personal opinions because someone says something doesn't necessarily make it so. And I'd like for the Alderman to understand that, which I know you do, but the public needs to be aware that when people come up here and make comments or comment on issues that are going around and a lot of times without the basic information that's necessary, different conclusions are arrived at. The other thing I wanted to point out is that, and this is important for all of us to remember because we need to keep saying it, if people want their taxes lowered, we have done our share. We are proud of what we are doing to keep taxes low. They need anybody that doesn't want taxes raised needs to go talk to the other tax injurisdictions that tax everybody around here. That means that the Sheboygan Air School District is a tax injurisdiction. That means that Sheboygan County is a tax injurisdiction. Lake Short Technical College is a tax injurisdiction and the Recreation Department is a tax injurisdiction. The city of Sheboygan, Texas, is a people 33 cents out of a dollar, 33 percent. For that, I'll take the blame. I'm not going to take blame for the other remaining balance that the county, the school, LTC, and the Recreation Department put on the taxpayer. That I will never, and I say it again, I will never take responsibility for that because I'm not the one doing that. People need to go to these jurisdictions and tell them that. I appreciate the fact that they tell us that, but we are doing our job and we're very proud of that. Final thing, there is no ambulance fee. There is no ambulance tax. People are already paying a fee. They're just paying somebody different. And the taxpayer, the way Alderman Boer and some of the Alderman have been concerned about, the way it's being set up as a separate cost center, it's not going to cost the taxpayer any money. And if it is, at some point, that money has to be borrowed and will be paid back, there's enough Alderman here that are keeping a real close eye on that and I think we're going to do a great job. And it's just, it's frustrating and it's extremely disappointed to constantly hear this bastion of a fire department and Chieve-Listosky and his team that worked so hard. They talk about 15 years of experience at Orange Cross. They have over 150 years of experience in serving the people of Sheboygan. No one has ever questioned their loyalty. No one has ever questioned their commitment to the taxpayer. 150 years versus 15, folks, you don't need to do the math very hard. We have a completely dedicated fire department. It's going to do a remarkable job. We've been criticized before for making tough decisions and we've proved people wrong. And folks, we're going to do it again. I have tremendous faith in our fire department. I have tremendous faith in all of you to make sure that we're good stewards of the taxpayer's dollars and we are doing our share. And thank you very much for that. Collector of the Board of Water Commissioners, President Hanna. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Nominations be received from the floor and voting be done by open ballot. If more than two candidates are nominated, the candidate with the lowest number of votes be dropped from the list and balloted continue until one candidate receives a majority. Second. Motion in second. Meeting discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Motion carries. Nominations. At this point, Mayor, I've received nomination from Gerald Vander Creek. Would you like to make that a nomination? I would make that nomination. Second. There is a nomination from the floor. President Hanna, second by Vice President Bourne. Are there any other nominations? Are there any other nominations? Are there any other nominations? There are none. Mr. Mayor. I'd move to cast a unanimous ballot for Gerald Vander Creek for the Board of Water Works Commissioners. Second. Motion in second to cast a unanimous ballot for Gerald Vander Creek. Any discussion? There is none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Congratulations, Mr. Vander Creek. Thank you very much, President Hanna. We will now go to hearings. There's two. Number one, to amend the zoning for property located at the southwest corner of Michigan Avenue and North 31st Street from Class S-O, from Class Suburban Office to Class Mixed Residential 8 classification. The second hearing is, it deals with, to amend the zoning for property located at 1235 Pennsylvania Avenue from Class Neighborhood Residential to Class Neighborhood Commercial classification. Is there anyone here that would like to address the council? Is there anyone that would like to address the council? Is there anyone? There is one objection that has been made to hearing number one, and this was done in the form of a written letter. I don't normally do this to notice the objection because people should come over here and address the council personally. But this is from Ms. Madeline. She objects to the rezoning of the number one issue there. She has some concerns about the way it's being handled from her family's side in court. And I am not going to read all the details, but please note that there is an objection to that particular zoning change in hearing number one. I will ask again, are there any other people who want to address the council? There being none, President Hanna. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would move to close the hearings. Motion is second to close hearings. Under discussion. There is none. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. The hearings are closed. Next item on the agenda is consent agenda 12-1 to 12-13. President Hanna. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that all ROs be accepted and placed on file and all RCs be accepted and adopted. Motion is second. Under discussion. There being none, please call the roll. Bowk? Aye. Gisha? Aye. Hanna? Aye. Heidemann? Aye. Kittleson? Aye. Clioness? Aye. Manny? Aye. Meyer? Aye. Montemayor? Aye. Rinflaich? Aye. Ryan? Vanderweel? Aye. Verhasselt? Aye. Wongamon? Aye. Anboran? Aye. Manny? Aye. Meyer? Aye. Montemayor? Aye. Rinflaich? Aye. Vanderweel? Aye. Verhasselt? Aye. Wongamon? Aye. Boran? Aye. Anboran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Aye. Boran? Kittleson, Clioness, Manny, Meier, Montemayor, Rinflaich, Ryan, Vanderwill, Verhassell, Longerman, Born, Bauch, and Gisha. 15 ayes. Motion carries. 12-16 through 12-22 to be referred. Resolutions introduced. 12-23 and 12-24 lies over. 12-25 through 12-30 to be referred. Report of Committees 7, 12-31 by law and licensing. Recommending denying beverage operators license number 7584 based on the applicant's record of violations related to the licensed activity. Vice President Boran. Your Honor, I move that the Report of the Committee be accepted and adopted. Motion in second. Under discussion. Is Joseph Mazuski here tonight? He's not here, Your Honor. Very well, please proceed. We, the committee voted unanimously to deny this license. The gentleman appeared before the committee and he is working as a bartender and we encouraged him that after a year of staying out of trouble, he's welcome to come back to the committee and reapply. But at this time, because of some recent convictions that are related to the activity, we voted to deny. Thank you, Vice President Boran. Any further discussion? There is none. Please call the roll. Heidemann. Heidemann. Kittleson. Heidemann. Heggger. Montemayor. Rinfleisch. Ryan. Vanderweal. For Hazelt. Wandmiki. Boran. Boak. Gysha. And Hannah. 15 ayes. Motion carries. 12.32 by law on licensing recommend denying Taxicked C över operators license number 67, 64-300 based on the applicants failure to cooperate with the committee. Vice President Boran. Thank you, your honor. I move the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion and second under discussion Is fourth belanger here tonight? It's not here your honor very well, please proceed We attempted to contact mr. Belanger twice once by certified letter Apparently, mr. Belanger is no longer at the address of record in the clerk's office we made every attempt to contact him and He did not appear we were unable to contact him after several efforts So it was unanimous unanimous decision at this time to deny his taxi cab operators license Thank You vice president boring any further discussion There is none. Please call the roll Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Vanderweel for Hasselt Wongamon Boran I bow Gisha Hannah and Heidemann 15 eyes motion carries 1233 by law and licensing recommended denying beverage operators license number 7590 based on the applicant's failure to cooperate with the committee the applicant's Ineligibility for a license given the record of violations related to the licensed Activity and status as a repeat law violator vice president born Thank You your honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adapted Motion and second under discussion. Thank You your honor is florenta Perez here tonight, please It's not here your honor very well, please proceed The committee decided to deny the renewal of her beverage beverage operators license Based on the several reasons that you previously stated. Thank You vice president born Any other discussion There is none all of them Ryan Just for clarification your honor is this her personal beverage operators license or is this the establishment license? My present born. Thank You all of them and Ryan. This is her personal beverage operators license Thank you for that clarification any further discussion There is none. Please call the roll Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Vanderwheel for Hasselt Wonkman foreign Bulk Gisha Hannah Heidemann and Kittleson 14 eyes one no motion carries Ordinance introduced 10 12 34 lies over Matters laid over 11 10 43 Resolution number 890708 by Alderman Meyer authorizing the submission of an application For financial assistance to the Sheboygan County non-motorized transportation pilot program Alderman Meyer All I came where are you? Thank You your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion Alderman Wagon Wagon Thank You your honor I've received several phone calls and quite a bit of information from other people in opposition to the basically the pedestrian bridge across the river the field it is Going to benefit too far few people It's hard to explain some but to somebody living out in my district how this bridge is going to help them so on this item I Going by what my constituents tell me I would have to bend to their wishes and vote no on this document Thank you. Thank you all of them one All of them clean this Thank You your honor. I support the resolution at this point to get it on the table for discussion With the county as to the other projects that they're considering at this point If it becomes a responsibility of the city, I'm not sure I would support it I would hope that the county would take it on as a project and as their responsibility to maintain Or that we would find some private donor who would name the bridge and take care of its maintenance in perpetuity Because I think the city has enough infrastructure to maintain in fact is having trouble Maintaining some infrastructure. So I just push the idea for that sake Thank you all and clean us next we have all in many Thank You your honor. I'll be voting against this motion Resolution and my desire is that those dollars available be more productively used in other areas and other means of providing secure and safe Transportation passageways for both pedestrians and bicyclists. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Many one more Alderman Ryan Thank You your honor. I am Well, I respect my colleagues here. I am definitely behind the pedestrian bridge being in second the second district of Alderman balcony myself, but The the non-motorized transportation fund is designed to get people out of their cars and People are saying well this bridge, you know, it's it should be used for bicycle trails in my opinion I have a bicycle unfortunately. It's eight years old and still has the nubs on the tires. That's how much I've used it But To spend all of this non-motorized transportation fund on bicycle trails. I think is an injustice It's great for the people that ride bikes. Are you going to get that many more people out on bicycles by building bicycle trails? I think Good portion of it should be used for that. However, this pedestrian bridge will it get people out of their cars if you're out on South Pure and You want to go on the other side of the river? I guarantee you nobody walks right now They get in their car and they drive to the other side of the river and vice versa if they are on the on the older side of the river They get in their car and drive around nobody walks all the way around if the bridge is there people walk across the bridge Then they're on foot you have people out in south pier walk across their bridge their car is out on south pier They're on foot for the afternoon They're out of their cars That's supposed to be the purpose of the non-motorized transportation fund Not to mention the economic benefits of it to the entire South pure district that has nothing to do with the motorized non-motorized transportation fund but To get people out of their cars in doing something else This will do it much more than anything else myself I'll walk my children down pull them in the wagon down to the to the uh to the uh riverfront But I never bring them on the other side Because i'm not walking that far What I'll you know, I will go to the other side to the triple play Or to the the water park will take the car Now if the bridge is there we're walking This is what will get people walking. That's the answer to the that's the purpose of the non-motorized transportation fund As far as the city taking a an approach of We're not going to spend a penny on this. This is going to benefit our city now to have Possibly the entire thing funded by non city tax paying dollars And to maybe get caught up with a little bit of maintenance over the years to have a five million dollar bridge across our river I think it's foolishness So i'm a hundred percent behind us. Thank you Thank you all Ryan Next we have vice president board Thank you, ronner I'm going to support this tonight with the caveat that I i'm going to need more information as far as what the maintenance costs are going to be Uh, I like all of them and wangaman have not heard a lot of positives on this bridge idea for my constituents But after I I take the time to explain the benefits. I think they're a little more understanding I haven't changed everybody's mind, but I want to move this forward to see if it's a possibility to get the dollars I am going to be attending a presentation This friday morning down at blue harbor that's put on by the shabuigan bid district and their topic is going to be covering This pedestrian bridge and It's I think it's going to be very interesting and hopefully i'm going to get some answers on on the maintenance issue Uh, so I am going to move it forward, but I am concerned about the maintenance what that's going to be. Thank you Thank you, mr. President born all about Thank you ronner I like the senior alderman from district two have heard a lot from our constituents about how they uh, they support it They they uh, they too will put their kids in their wagon and go down there But more especially I've heard from the business constituents that own along the uh, The shanties they're saying we want people that are over at blue harbor to walk over to our place and drink and eat in our places So i'm going to support this tonight, but I also support all of the conversation that needs to be had I too am going to the bid district meeting friday morning. I know that later on in our packet There's someone who has written a letter encouraging us to have a full and open Conversation on this and I think that's great We do need to understand what the economic impact could be and what the economic You know that the maintenance fees and such should be so i'll be supporting this tonight To get the conversation started with the caveat that we all need to learn more And I think the facts are going to be on our side and I think this will be a good thing for the city Thanks, sir. Thank you all. Any further discussion? There being none, please call the roll Manny No Meyer Montemayor Rinfleisch Ryan Vanderweel For hassled Wongamon Boran Boke Yesha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Ann Clioness 12 ayes 3 noes motion carries 1131 resolution number 990708 by alderman hannah boran bout and geisha Authorized a transfer of appropriations in the 2007 budget president hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion Alderman van der wheel Thank you, honor My question is on the resolution it states that the library board has exclusive control of the expenditures of all money is collected donated More appropriated for the library fund If that's true, why are we voting to authorize this tonight? If anybody could answer that Thank you, Alderman van der wheel. That's that's a very good question The city the shamborgan code and statute that regulates a library says I believe word for word what you just read that the library board has a complete authorization and control over those funds In the past, they have been brought to the library simply as a formality They've been through the finance committee as simply as a formality There's been some concern that perhaps that that's been so so informal Yet a formality being so informal if you can get that Uh That perhaps some of the alderman at the finance committee should be able to hash it out and sort through those expenses before those expenses are made And it's it's just a a matter of being able to have some some discussion on that alderman geisha. You're Want to add something to that? Thank you, mr. Mayor. Yes, it and the result of just what you described was finding out through various meetings that the expenses the library board Has authorized actually saves over $20,000 a year in library operations Those are that's information we we've never really received in the past And it's nice to be able to tout good fiscal responsibility in the library board's part And for us to better understand what their plans are for the future and any sort of trailing expenses on any additional expenses they do The result of that is we're proud to say that this is a savings of 20 grand And uh, it is the full Responsibility and authority of the library board to expend these funds It's a check and balance for the city Because we actually have these accounts So I think overall this change that Alderman hannah suggested is working quite well Thank you. Alderman geisha President hannah. Thank you, mr. Mayor We've learned a lot in the last year in working with the library board They do have robust powers to spend those funds I think i'm i'm very encouraged by the renewed level of communication from the city and from library back and forth I were meeting on a regular basis This is kind of an end product of those meetings that we we are check and balance Those those funds are domiciled with us And so it's kind of our obligation to keep an eye on that but I think communication is going great Mm-hmm. Thank you. And I'll be right with you. I'll move to my element vendor wheel The other point that has been made is that there are times when the library board Votes to spend money that's donated But say for example, it's a water fountain, which we don't want to hear too much about water fountain But if it's a water fountain that they were to spend money on the money would come out from the donation funds But the maintenance perhaps would not that would have to be run through our portion Their portion that comes out from our levy That's why it's another good reason to make sure that the finance committee has the ability to look at these expenditures Expenditures to say okay, you've been able to fund this. That's great is by the same token with the bridge or there any Uh tailing expenditures that are going to be associated with this in next year following year and for how long So it's a good again checking balance making sure that although they have that power to spend that Then that creates a burden a liability on our part or it may not Okay, all in one to my own Thank you, your honor. I don't have anything to add to the explanation for all of them Fender wheel however, I do want to add a couple of words with all of them box thoughts because some of this Is double the service they're getting double the service for half the cost. They're being very careful And when that was brought up at one of the last meetings of the library board Everyone was very to happy to hear double the service at half the cost for the particular thing we were quoting on that day Thank you. All of them with the move any further discussion They're being done. Please call the roll Meyer month mayor Rindflash Ryan Vander wheel for hassled Wongamon boron balk Yesha Is it that one? Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clayunas and Manny 15 eyes motion carries 1132 Resolution number 107 08 by old woman hannah borne balk and gisha Authorizing a transfer of appropriation in the 2007 budget president Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I'd move that the resolution put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll montemay or Rindflash Ryan Vander wheel for hassled Wongamon boron balk Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clayunas Manny and Meyer 15 eyes motion carries 1133 Resolution number 1010708 by alderman Vander wheel Rindflash Kittleson Ryan and Smith pursuant to 118-164 of the municipal code Directing the chief of police and directors of engineering and public works to cause lines or march to be placed Within the parking lanes of a of specified city streets within a business district to designate parking spaces of set streets Alderman Vander wheel Thank you, your honor. I would also like to take the general ordinance with that 1141 Please do And I will make a motion to put the resolution and the general ordinance upon their passage Motion and second under discussion Under discussion your honor This is a product of a communication that was sent to pole protection safety by ziggies barn grill They're on indiana avenue and basically looking for relief for The overcrowded parking in that area and There's just not a whole lot we can do down there And this is the best best solution we could come with putting putting the lines on the streets And I'd like to add that If the vehicles cross the line that we put on the streets, it's a $25 fine. So that's in there also Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Alderman Vander wheel Any further discussion? Alderman clayunas Thank you, your honor. They're going to be parking meters added. There's parking meter mentioned in 1141 Alderman Ryan No, basically that that is why this is a Change in the ordinance They're the change in the code the code was written that in order to do parking lines You had to have parking meters. So that's why our downtown has parking lines and parking meters Indiana avenue isn't such a crunch right now with the developing of the area That there are no lines on the road therefore You know, everybody's guilty of it. You take a lot of space in front of your car behind your car to make sure you Got plenty of room to get in and out Purpose of the lines is just to get people, you know to be able to compact more cars into that That area and we have to have a change in the code in order to do it Thank you, Alderman Ryan Any further discussion? There is none. Please call the roll Rin Flesch Ryan Vander wheel for hassled wongamon boran bulk Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clioness Manny Meyer and Montemay or 15 eyes motion carries 1134 resolution number 1020708 by Alderman re hassled Montemayor Heidemann Gisha and Meyer Accepting the memorandum of agreement with the city of sheboygan in local 483 i a f i a f Alderman re hassled Thank you, honor. I moved that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion under discussion I would just as everyone was aware of last meeting on behalf of my taxpayers in the district and on the In the city I'd respectfully request that this council turn down this tentative agreement With the local fire union and for a number of reasons the reasons I'd like to state are one It falls short of the initial intention of it, which is to get full-time residency For our city employees i e fire police and so on We went in Jim born authoring the resolution was looking at lifetime residency, which for a fire department employees approximately 25 years gave her take Instead our city bargaining team offered 10 We negotiated five So I think we fell far short on that number one or number two. I think It was never the thing that one thing that bothers me It was never presented as a cost during our discussions on this ambulance service Back in may and june not even as a footnote that there would be some cost incurred We have a procedure called called closed meeting, which we could have easily went into and discussed This number of 50 60 70 thousand dollars and I think that would have been wise tool to use at that point Number three, I think in my opinion I think the city's bargaining team lack the real objectivity that the taxpayers want to need And by that I mean Our three members of our bargaining team two of the members our fire department employees So to put that in perspective for those watching at home We've got two individuals who are sent in to war to fight Negotiate on the taxpayers behalf and then the next day they have to go work alongside these people We put those two people in a very tough position To bargain on the city's behalf and I think something should be looked at in the future to clean that up a little bit So that we can have true objectivity in our bargaining team I'd like to say that this cost In the large part of this that I have a problem with is the pay increase that we're offering to our firemen and I'd like to say that's a Unnecessary cost of our taxpayers, but nobody in this room and nobody on my salary ingredients committee Has the information to say that We're paying our people more or less or too much than the comparables around the state of wisconsin We needed then and we needed still today We need an aggregate number of either a total salary compensation for a new employee Or a wage benefit combination But that's what an arbitrator is going to be looking at when they go into discussion Not whether we offer a 1% increase a 4% increase as compared to lacrosse or claire wassa offering their 4% increase So we need a an aggregate number that we still do not have at this point Like I said, I'd like to say it's a bad number But we don't have the information to say so maybe they deserve more maybe less, but That's my piece on it. Thank you Thank you all the men for hassle Before we go on just want to point out we can hear this howling of the wind And it may be interfering with the people the reception that they're watching this meeting And they have asked that alderman speak a little louder and clearer into their microphone. Okay Next we have alderman geisha Thank you your honor, um on behalf of the citizens of the first district who are tax adverse I support this And I support it because not doing it will cost the city money I've offered to share the numbers And a couple of alderman have taken me up on it All you need to do is to go and read arbitration reports Or maybe I have no life So I read arbitration reports on the internet for the state of wisconsin And read all the 50 of the 54 cities in the state of wisconsin that have this service You can read exactly what the arbitrator rules when it comes to A differential paid for ambulance drivers or ambulance personnel. It's very simple Yeah, there's a laundry list of things they can get and I I took serious issue with the shmogen press editorial of friday serious issue because in my opinion it was incredibly inaccurate They did not mention anything below the line in this agreement that we got that has dollar signs attached to it What we're talking about here is 55 thousand dollars for 26 paramedic firemen Over over the length of this contract 55 thousand dollars by the end of the contract Nowhere is it mentioned that they're going to give back $6,000 a year to allow commander butler as a fill-in for the paramedics The union has allowed that Nowhere does it mention that they're going to relinquish ems pay right now our firemen receive ems pay the tune of about Over $10,000 a year They could have that paramedic premium Of six percent all of it beginning 07. They're not even doing that They're giving that back to the taxpayers of the city of shmogen You had all the numbers together, which is not that difficult to do And you come up with the taxpayers of the first district second district all the way through this room Of to the good of $14,000 Now that's being a friend of your taxpayer secondly the It's been stated that we don't have information showing whether our firemen are starting off low or starting off too high The information was presented in the committee I was in and backed up in writing by the chief of police this week Exactly what he said backed up by our hr director get part was put in writing and confirmed. So I don't get the argument Falls short of the resolution that it does Unfortunately the resolution isn't passed We it's a resolution. It's up for discussion It's it's it's great that it was brought up, but it's not law on the city of shmogen It's just a resolution making its way through the process We can't make pretend that it's a statute in the city of shmogen. It's not So you're getting it before the statute and I think the spirit of the statute requires some interesting And aggressive conversation There's pros and cons to residency. It's going to cost us money if we want it. We have to understand that But it's not a statute in the in the city of shmogen So we can't keep referring to it as if it's codified. It's not So I think the bargaining unit for saving the city $14,000 based on these These negotiations I thank them for giving us the comparables in writing that they've verbalized in the meeting And I thank them for For not telegraphing in the ambulance proposal of six percent paramedic premium I'll close with something that's always bothered me in the city If you're building a shelter house, you put a price on the shelter house And then you go out and get bids for it 300,000 bucks Oddly enough the shelter house comes in at 300,000 dollars It's it's it's remarkable. So what do we do in this case? Wisely thanks to commander herman who was on the other side of the table for many many years fighting the city of shmogen They didn't put it in for strategic reasons It would have been telegraphing that we're going to give you six percent in part of this deal And guess what we would have paid the six percent Beginning 2007 we would not have saved the $14,000 to the life of our current codified contract with the fire department union. It would have been Giving a gift right up front with no negotiation power. This gave them negotiation power to save these other items And I thank them for that wisdom. I never would have thought of it and uh I thank them for their service and I and I certainly support this For the taxpayers of the first district Thank you. Allamondisha Allamond Ryan sir. Thank you. Mr. Mayor I do also support this I wish I had the numbers that alderman gisha has right now but taking the the the Tax savings out of it putting that aside and just operating off of the the principal of this the fire department has has put this forward In order to expedite the entire ambulance issue Um, if I believe if if the numbers I have in my head are correct, there is no ambulance premium pay There's a zero percent increase for the first year um They could have gotten six percent If they go to arbitration they probably get six percent I mean they put this forward Um, try to try to expedite the process to get the thing rolling if they're gonna if they're gonna take over the ambulance service Which this council approved Um, they need to know where they stand So this you know the thing about this is this is this is a union Negotiated issue It's nothing that you go back to them and say well, we appreciate and the five-year residency thing would not even be an issue In the negotiations they threw that out as a bone to the city To go back and say well, we want to rework this thing It's not going to be reworked it'll end up in arbitration So I think this council has a duty to take something that edsirc and his team put together And uh and approve it for the taxpayers. It's your boy. Thank you. Thank you. All right. We have Alderman muck Thank you, your honor Just a couple of mild points one I I appreciate the fact that alderman gisha doesn't have a life because that allows him to spend so much time In the numbers and the statutes you were very articulate in your explanation Um And that is something that I just wish the editors at the fourth estate here in shabuigan at the shabuigan press Would have had more conversations with more alderman before printing this piece of near libel as their editorial last week The word something devilish about the negotiations casting all kinds of aspersions on the negotiation process and quid pro quo amounts nearly to uh Uh An accusation that the people involved in this process got something for what we gave So, uh, I don't know who had the conversation with the editorial board that that led to this very misleading editorial But it led to one gentleman tonight speaking before our council with completely inappropriate facts It may have led alderman uh ver hassle down, uh the wrong path So I guess why I stood up is because i'm just really disappointed in the shabuigan press for what I think is Is a lack of journalistic principles in the execution of this editorial and secondly to have just a mild disagreement with Um alderman ryan. I don't think they threw it in as a bone to the city I think they threw it in as part of a complete package. Nobody throws bones everybody is in it For what's in it for them everybody negotiates as much as they can get and they threw that residency in there as part Of a total package, which he's exactly right to accelerate this process So we could get them in there So I don't want it to sound like they threw it in there as a gesture of goodwill It was part of a good deal that they or it was part of a complete deal that they thought needed to be negotiated as was Thank you your honor. Thank you alderman bulk Maybe further vice president borne Thank you ryaner I'm going to vote against this tonight and i'm going to vote against against it because of what I said last week Is that I thought it was most inappropriate For our our human resources director to even negotiate This residency this residency Resolution that I had because of the fact at the meeting that I attended of salary and grievances He was told to talk to all of the unions not negotiate open up any negotiations But to bring this resolution to the attention of all of the unions to see what the reaction was And then bring it back to salary and grievances. I get a phone call after this deal is Is done And nowhere in this resolution does it say anywhere about 10 years 5 years 3 years It says new hires will live in the city as long as their employees And I just think it's totally inappropriate for him without authority to even bring this up in the negotiations And I think many parts of this editorial are right on. Thank you Thank you vice president borne. We have alderman rehassled Thank you, your honor Yeah, I don't think the editorial was that far off having been in the eye of the storm here for the last month and a half And seeing all the players involved I do take offense to someone implying that i'm on there not even implying stating that i'm on the wrong path That's an insult in its peers form I do want to point out to this council that we have the option of going back to the table This is not a throw it away or take a sort of deal I spent probably better part of two hours on the phone with jim scott Our labor attorney and went over all the possible scenarios that could roll out of this to get the best understanding as to How this thing could work? And we have the option to go back to the table both sides of the city and the union put their final they call it the final draft On the table and lay it side by side and hopefully we're not too far off And we can work something out if then we don't then we go to arbitration And for you know, and I I keep hearing people say this is a great deal I wonder sometimes who's representing who because I keep hearing they can do this they can do that they have the power to do this It's an us us us thing the city's working with the union the union's working with the city We both have our leverage on both sides But I want to hear people talk in that vein Rather than talking constantly in the vein that they have the power to go back to arbitration and get six Maybe eight maybe more maybe less We don't have a comparable again. We don't have a salary comparable I hear someone say well, we have a comparable in my salary agreements meeting back in august I specifically asked chief listusky for a comparable and at that point He provided me with some papers and I want to say there were probably 15 to 25 different cities It had comparable data on everything from soup to nuts The closest thing that it had though as it related to the issue at hand, which is salary was percent increase Cacana all these little towns in in larger cities. What percent increase they paid when they went to an ambulance service I cheered that information with our labor attorney and he said that's a meaningless number That's a meaningless compare because the arbitrator wants to know what the total compensation package is and that's how he's going to make his decision Um, and that's a number we don't have if we do have that number I would challenge anybody to put it on my desk right now I would love to see that figure and I'm not saying we're right on base because I don't know that number and no one else here does As far as telegraphing our pay increase We have closed meetings We can do that they're intended to be used in situations where we have Union negotiations that might be parts of union negotiations negotiations that need to be discussed We could easily hit it at that point Excuse me or a range could have been discussed at some point to avoid telegraphing an exact number so Thank you. Thank you all the rassles and I am going to hold it to two times per for all of us We have uh, mr. Serg you wanted to make a point sir Mr. Serg is the department head of hr Thank you your honor. Um, I have right here comparables. I think I think you might have received him then and basically it shows that Um, she's a boy in firefighters Starting salary is 32 6 30 which is the lowest of the groups and here's here's some of the comparables with appleton beloit o'clair Fondland jamesville canosha lacrosse manitouac need him in asha asha recede I think those are pretty comparable cities um As far as top pay It's this is firefighter pay not paramedic pay. We're somewhere in the middle We're not we're not high we're not low if we were the average amount we'd be probably right in the medium As far as paramedic pay Beloit pays currently four to ten percent O'clair is five percent final acts five point nine percent Janeville ranges from eight to ten percent canosha range is six percent Manitouac is seven Oshkosh is three point two and racine is six percent Uh, I'd also have to clarify something too would jim scott Is a labor attorney which we use we've used i've known jim for a number of years and he's with lindon marcia on a milwaukee And he referred to a conversation you had with him and I talked to jim and jim said that was not accurate He uh, he said that to look in comparables. He said he said he had mentioned that it could be Could be an argument you could use an arbitration, but it wouldn't get you very far He felt that the agreement we did reach with the firefight union was an excellent agreement And that for them to come by the first year with a zero percent increase Come by with the third second year with a three percent increase and about a third year going with another three percent race He said it was fantastic. So That's the conversation I had mr. Scott and you know if the committee would like to have Mr. Scott come in and and discuss that I'd be I'm sure be willing to do that. So any we have any questions? I think there's still delayed debate and thank you mr We have Almond balk second time sir. Thank you, your honor I if saying that I think you're headed down the wrong path is a an attack I withdraw my very vicious personal rhetorical attack on the good alderman for hassle Alderman ryan second time Thank you rudder Yeah, I wish I could toss out my ethics and Conscience and actually vote against us just to see what would happen with the union negotiations coming up It's a good deal it was done in good faith it's not going to get any better and You know to to Trash it you're starting over is what's happening. I mean you don't take these things back and massage them and improve them It's thumbs up or thumbs down If this council votes thumbs down, I think the uh the next time that the deal is not going to probably be so sweet Thank you. Thank you. Oh my ryan I'll give you a second time. Thank you. Uh just a quick statement and I I get really disturbed with uh With having difficulties with city employees I have difficulties with the system not with the individuals who make up our system It's not their fault that our statutes are set up a certain way our wages are set up a certain way the world is a certain way so I appreciate comments regarding personal attacks and I and I feel that there were a few comments that were Were personal attacks that may have gone just a bit too far tonight and I regret that that has happened in this Chamber without burden of proof So at this time I call the question Second there's a motion in the second to call the question Any discussion and calling the question And this requires three quarters vote because what the question that calling the question does is ends debate And it's a very drastic step that's taken two-thirds two-thirds Is there any discussion on that? There is none Please call the rule we need two-thirds Ryan Bander wheel for hassled Wongamon Warren Bauch Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Cleonis Manny Meyer Montemayor And rindflige Ten eyes five nose It's not um Not two-thirds twelve, isn't it? Two-thirds would be eleven Okay Discussion continues. Is there anyone? Well, um Some of you may may be Is there anyone that would like to continue to discuss the issue? Holland and Vanderbilt Thank you, honor. Um I want to know simply because All the heavy hitters were talking I didn't get a chance I just wanted to make uh to make one comment that uh arbitration was brought up and kicked around and It has almost seemed like Some would like to see us go into arbitration and I've been here long enough To see and to know that it's common sense that we don't want to go into arbitration Because arbitration if we go into arbitration The city will get the worst deal and the taxpayers will get the worst deal So like almond Ryan said, I think we got the best deal we can get Thank you I would like to make comment because I know that we went to uh We had an event at the with the radio stations from the walk in all of them Bauch said We at the council we need to loosen up a little bit or a lot more. I believe it was a comment and And uh, Alamangisha is right sometimes things get a little going in different directions and and perhaps we we uh we uh Gather information and translate a little bit different, but I I know that I can speak for myself. I certainly can't speak for for all of you But I have worked very hard to take the issues as an issue and not a personal thing against anyone I've learned to let things go. I've learned to say that didn't go my way Okay, that's fine. By the way, it happens at home too. I don't go in my way all the time too But you know, it didn't go my way. We move on to the next issue and almond. We will have Buckets and buckets full of issues that we are going to have to deal with That there's going to be either all one-sided or all this sided or crossover amongst all of you It's just the way these issues are some of these issues get sensitive and emotional It's okay All of you are in my opinion my humble opinion Extremely committed and dedicated and intelligent you bring an incredible amount of talent to this council And this is why we have these good hearty discussions But that's all they should be and then once we vote and make a decision Let's go on to the next one. We have a little bit more discussion here Alderman president hannah your next sir Thank you, mr. Mayor And first thanks to ed sir Quickly providing us with those comparables. It was my understanding that the the firemen were paid at about the mean for the state I've also talked to the city's labor attorney And he's told me that he thinks this is an excellent offer on the part of the union So I think I think we're in pretty good shape. I've I've lived through labor discussions as I was on the school board with you for six years And we know how contentious they can be Um And the odds are stacked horribly against us in arbitration Good point. I'll I'll refresh Thank you, mr. Mayor Oh, I managed to not say anything for the first hour 15 minutes. So I apologize that I actually finally had to say something um It's been tossing this one around all week on deciding which way I'm going to vote on this one. Um I think history why they came to us and why they negotiated this prior to having The full discussion on the residency requirement that We were hoping to have is because we've given them this task to Run the ambulance service starting january 1st And this is is the big step in getting that process continuing on its way So I actually want to thank the firefighters for Coming forward to us and I think giving us a fair deal that and that we can stay out of of arbitration I do have some concerns about the agreement itself though And I will be voting for the agreement but my concerns are one residency requirement Um, which I did have some email conversations with the chief regarding um I I ultimately I don't think that we can really Force the issue with residency on employees of all kinds You know, dude, can we get the finest and the best? By doing so, um, I I understand as taxpayer I wouldn't want all my my people to live within the city So they're paying the same taxes that I'm paying and when they negotiate they're negotiating because they understand they're going to pay Portion of that salary as well So I I think it's a good idea But I don't think it's something that we're going to be able to negotiate with the unions down the road But again, that's a discussion I would rather have had we've been able to bring up the resolution alderman boran's resolution Earlier and had that discussion which we're not able to do Um, I would rather see quite frankly It's the overtime pay the fact that we're paying them from the moment that they leave their residency Uh, so we're right now We're rewarding the firefighters to live as far away as possible. So when they do get called in on an assignment They now have the hey if I can live in Plymouth or Fond du Lac, I'm gonna overtime time and I have I don't have to do anything yet Um, now I that's where I would rather see instead of residency negotiation Perhaps is for those that do get paid overtime Um do it from when they arrive On station on location and there's probably problems with that You know, do they go directly to the station or do they go directly to the scene of the emergency? What have you on that? It's above my knowledge But there it would be incentive to either live in the city or as close as possible to your location Because then you're wasting your time. You're not getting any benefit that way So I will vote for this one because I do want to congratulate and thank the firefighters for stepping up And offering the city something that we can use and I can hold my head up high in this negotiation But I would rather have seen one a full discussion on residency prior to this and two, uh negotiations regarding the Overtime pay. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna replace There's no further discussion chief We will speak Suppose I'm making a thank you. Thank you on our suppose. I'm making a mistake since there was no firm Further discussion to step up here, but there's a few things I really felt I need to clarify and um Actually addressing alderman renflesh on on both of those issues One is I agree wholeheartedly with him regarding the call-in process And there's some ambiguity as to how that process began and when it began and we are looking to through policy address that outside of the contract and We're in the process of reforming our call-in process and looking at doing that in that manner And also just to clarify that is Utilized for emergency callback, which is something that we use very minimally Over the course of the year. So there's not a lot of there's not big dollars attached to that At this time we're talking hundreds of dollars differential not thousands But I do agree in principle that you are absolutely right that we need to address that and we are going to address that The second thing is Regarding the residency portion of it and I understand I've always been an advocate for residency And even though it may have some negative impacts on the pool of candidates that you can draw I always felt like for maybe different reasons and alderman born and some of the rest of you That it's important that our firefighters are residents of the community And it's more for a tie into the community familiarity with the community The the fact that they are a part of this they're not coming here for their job And going back to a home somewhere else They're committed to here and committed to the community and their volunteerism and everything else is Here in the community. So when we looked at negotiating Knowing that we had a negotiate and you any requesting to negotiate for The paramedic premiums that would be required. We wanted to put this together and move this forward So for everyone's planning purposes, we could get this resolved and move on At this that was about the same time or very close to the time alderman born brought his resolution for it The reality is the comparables and I know people hate to hear the word comparables But that's the reality of what we deal with our way stacked against us Imposing residency on our employees There's a handful one two or three cities in the state of wisconsin Out of 50 some major cities that have city residency for their any of their employees And we have comparables on that that was that were presented to the salary and grievance committee So with that in mind and with the importance to us As a staff and it and we are the staff and we are part of the negotiating committee with Mr. Surick and I do take a little offense to the Implication That we're unable to negotiate on behalf of the city because that's my sworn responsibility as fire chief to fulfill the position that I'm in We wanted to get residency in there. We're looking at hiring a number of employees Not 54 if you want You know a humor in this as we heard earlier But the four that we we were approved by the council and whatever retirements that will be coming up And my fear is even there will be no negotiating On residency until the next contract period and we would lose an opportunity to to have Five ten or however many people we do end up hiring dependent on on retirements As residents of the city in that meantime And that's something that we felt was important that we felt was really needed And it was a step in the right direction to get those people in here And that's what prompted us to include the residency in the discussion with the paramedics premiums and the other things that were were in the tentative agreement because we wanted to not lose that opportunity To get these new people into the city and what our hope is we get them in here They move in from a different community get their roots here and then they stay and and I guess I just needed to clarify that and and uh the background on on how we got to that point Thank you. Thank you chief Holderman maddie Thank you your honor Following the chief's comments. I simply want to note one more thing before the vote And that is as I had sat in uh salary and grievance conversations with the chief Last year and with the commander. I certainly know that they did work quite well and distinctly to represent the city In a very objective way, and I was quite pleased with the work that they did. Thank you Thank you all and maddie Holderman kiddelson Thank you your honor. I have to weigh in as well and uh what or echoing uh alderman manny's words Alderman monta may are and myself sat in union negotiations last year as well And we know how hard they work and and what a process it is and so Going forward Positively with this proposal is is definitely a step in the right direction. Thank you. Thank you Any further discussion? There is none Please call the roll Vander wheel for hassled wongamon boran bauk gisha hannah heidemann kiddelson clayunas manny meyer monta may or rindflash Excuse me. Thank you and ryan Ten eyes five nose motion carries 1160 rc. Number 1790708 by public works who met and discussed rc. Number 12060708 by the motor vehicle committee's recommendation and concurs with all the committee's recommendations Alderman mayer Thank you your honor. I move that the rc be accepted and adopted Is there motion and second under discussion? There is none all in favor say aye any opposed Motion carries 1161 rc. Number 180708 by public works who met in resolution number 31 3108 Regarding the various costs and capabilities of the security cameras for city parks the committee met and reviewed the following attached information And is recommending that the cost for installing such equipment Be placed in 2008 budget and have the department work With planning and development to secure potential block grant funding as well Alderman mayer Thank you, your honor. I move that the rc be accepted and adopted Motion and second under discussion Vice president boran Thank you, your honor. I wasn't able to attend the uh committee meetings when this was discussed What's the total dollar dollar figure that's going to be going into the 2008 budget? And then of course that'll be we'll try to get some of that with the black red funding and uh Is this going to be in all the city parks if you could just give me a little more information, please Alderman mayer I'm thank you, your honor. Um right now we we don't know the exact parks. We're putting it into It's going to the park and forestry commission and they will do a list as to the parks that are needed And the exact cost of the cameras That kind of vary from time to time. I think they're around 2000 a piece if i'm not mistaken But um, we'll have a further count as to the parks after it goes through park and forestry Okay, thank you. Alderman mayer Vice president boran Thank you, your honor. So just just to follow up then you do not have a definite figure yet on What you're going to be asking for in the 2008 budget? We Thank you. Alderman boran. We we do have some Some definite figures. Mr. Bebel will come up Bebel Thank you, mayor. Yes. Uh, what what we did and we talked at the committee is we budgeted $15,000 in the 08 budget That would be for three systems In three parks Now in the budget we we put it in the budget, but yet we're still working with planning and development to secure block grant funding We're going to try to pick our three worst parks as a as an experimental Trial period to see if this is really an effective deterrent It might only be one park So but that was the figure that we used it was 5,000 Per complete system per park So that's what we're at. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Alderman Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor. Yeah, that was uh On the black grant funding. It looks like the parks that they're eyeballing for this is probably a shared in park King park and end park I believe of those of those two of the three shared in and king park We believe will fall under black grant funding And according to citizen not to me or he's thrown in coana's part too So but no, it's it's a good thing if we can get black grant funding for it I mean to invest $5,000 to cut down crime and vandalism in a park. It's thank you. Thank you. I know that Perhaps it wasn't said accurately but If parks get cameras, it won't be our worst parks. We have no worst parks. All our parks are good Alderman vandal will Thank you, honor. I think uh, that statement was meant to be high crime parks possibly but uh For those who don't who don't know this has been going on for like two years. It's a community of the whole It's been in ppns. It's been in public works I think We even talked about in transit So we've been working on this for a long time and it's it's great that we're finally getting to the point where we're going to see a camera Thank you Alderman geisha just a quick question who monitors the tapes and so forth for these cameras and what are the what is that data to be used and how Alderman brian you want to answer that sir? I believe I believe the setup is going to be where it's going to be hooked up to A network where it will feed into the computer system at the police department for for monitoring Also, there's a possibility depending on if there's not a proper feed that there could be a 240 gig hard drive dvb on site where if there is an issue it's after the fact I mean this is not going to be big brother watching people in the parks to go get them basically it's it's a A situation where if there is an issue in a park we we we have it Probably more easily resolved Thank you Thank you, and I just wanted to reiterate. I think it's an excellent idea There's a bit of a road to plow here It seems before we can actually get that equipment in there But I hope everybody perseveres and we actually Do get three parks three sets of cameras whatever it takes And we invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in our parks whether it be local Or block grant money and I think this is a small investment to protect that against vandalism or equipment equipment issues Thank you And there's two two quick issues here that Are they going to serve as a deterrent? There's one issue for me The other issue is will we be able to get any worthwhile information out of it? I mean you see these Documentaries of people getting stabbed and robbed at convenience stores and their video system is shot They came and this happened with landmark square apartments too where they had a video system There cost a lot of money and they can't get an accurate description or Identifiable description of the perpetrator or the alleged perpetrator So for us to invest money in a camera simply because we want to put a camera and looks cool I would not support that unless it's going to be able we're going to be able to retrieve and use The information in a good way that that can be used as a follow-up Otherwise people were throwing money away. No, I shouldn't say that because now we got all the lights coming up. So President yeah I have to agree with you When we sat on the school board we went through this issue and the quality of the camera is critical Otherwise, it's a waste of money. You've got to go with a system where you can actually identify the perpetrators You know, we went through that with putting cameras at various Uh Bicycle locations and that sort of thing we found out the hard way. Uh, you can't you can't do this on the cheap Thank you President Hanna Oliver many will Thank you, your honor And I I agree with you also and during the discussions That's one thing I said over and over again that if if we can't spend the money to get a decent camera To get a shot on who is it doesn't pay to do it and and I hope that during those discussions that the The uh That the the people that work for us listen, so thank you. Thank you. I'm on bedroom. Okay We have no further discussion. We will act on 11 61 There is a motion all in favor say aye. Aye any opposed Motion carries 1141 we've acted on 1142 general ordinance number 37 0708 by alderman verhassell on the mayor heideman geisha and meyer Amending section 29 75 of the 1975 shabuagan municipal code So as to delete and add the property appraiser to in the assessor's office table of organization Alderman verhassell. Thank you, your honor. I moved that the general ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There is none please call the roll Verhasselt wangaman boron bauke geisha hannah heideman kittleson plainness mani meyer montemayor rindflash ryan and vander wheel 15 ayes motion carries 1143 general ordinance number 380708 by alderman verhassell montemayor heideman geisha and meyer Amending section 29 75 of the 1975 shabuagan municipal code So as to delete and add the director of public works in the public work table of organization Alderman verhassell. Thank you, your honor. I moved that the general ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion Vice president boron Thank you, your honor. If I could ask chairman verhassell to question. I noticed that the Class grade goes from a 13 to a 15 Uh, am I to assume that that's to get More qualified candidates or to increase the salary range to Get candidates for the director of public works is that's why the pay grade is higher Poland paulette to respond a little bit to that but yeah, it's been a long-standing discussion It's somewhat of a housekeeping matter paulette that we're putting the director. We're adding the director of public works To the public works to you. Okay, we don't that's not addressed Can I ask the question the question is the reason are we doing that to secure a better qualified candidate? Part of the reason the other reason was is to keep everybody at an equal par the department heads a lot of them already 15 Okay, thank you. Okay. Do you need further explanation? That's fine. Okay Thank you Okay, 1143 we'll call the rule wangaman foreign Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Vanderweel and rehearsal 15 eyes Motion carries working through the res agenda here 1144 general orders number 390708 By element of rehearsal Montemayor Heidemann Gisha and Meyer amend in section 2975 Of the 1975 sheboygan municipal code so as to delete the current and create an updated position of mayoral administrative officer In the mayor's office table of organization All in rehearsal Thank you, your honor. I move that the general ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There is none please call the roll Oren Bauch Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Excuse me Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Vanderweel Rehassle and wangaman 15 eyes Motion carries 1145 general orders number 4708 by element of rehearsal Montemayor Gisha Heidemann and Meyer amend in general orders number 330607 Establishing the salaries of crossing guards Alderman Rehassle Thank you, your honor. I move that the general ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There being none please call the roll Bauch Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Vanderweel Rehassle Wangaman Heidemann and Boren Heidemann 15 eyes Motion carries Other matters authorized by law 1235 will be referred to city plan commission and public works 1236 will be referred to public protection and safety 1237 will be referred to public protection and safety 1238 will be referred to finance 1239 will be referred to finance Other matters Attorney McLean 1240 is an ordinance amending section 2975 of the 1975 municipal code So is the change the tables of organizations the city development department director of city development and engineering slant city engineer And that that wouldn't lies over 1241 is an RO by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending june 30 2008 And that one will be referred to law and licensing as a matter of public information the council is now going to go into closed session The council will debate an issue and Make a decision and we will no longer come back live After closing for a closed session president hannah. I need a motion Thank you, mr. Mayor. I make a motion that we go into closed session There's a motion in second to read it all Does it need to read it all? It should be read The motion to convene in closed session under exemption provided in section 1985 Wisconsin statutes for the purchase purpose of deliberating the sale of land in the shabuigan business center Where bargaining reasons require a closed session and under the exemption provided in section 1981 g Wisconsin statute for the purchase for the purpose of conferring with the city attorney Who is rendering oral advice concerning the strategy to be adopted by the city with respect to litigation In pool versus city of shabuigan second. Thank you, president hannah. I wish it in second All in favor say aye Any opposed we we will go into closed session now ask that everyone leave except the council