 Recording Secretary Montoya we could go ahead and start the meeting and ask all board members to turn their video on. Okay it's 4.30 and I'm calling this meeting of the City of Santa Rosa Cultural Heritage Board to order. Vicentos if we could have a roll call. I'm sorry, Ms. Montoya. Absolutely. Let the record reflect that all board members are present with the exception of board member Fennel. Okay thank you. Looking at approval of previous minutes we have none so we will move on. Item number three public comment. Okay we are now we are now taking public comment for item four non-agenda matters. This is the time when any person may address the board on matters not listed on this agenda but which are within the subject matter jurisdiction of this committee. And then recording secretary do you have directions for the public? I do thank you. If you'd like to make a public comment on non-agenda items please raise your hand and for our calling attendees please raise star nine to raise your hand and then the star six to unmute. Thank you and we'll give a minute see if we have anybody who would like to make comment to the board. It looks like we do have one public comment so let us pull the timer up and then I will give her her time. Okay. Do you have a name for the person? Yes it will be Carol. Okay perfect. Right Carol you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please start by stating your full name for the record please. Carol Case and I'm I'm new to Zoom so forgive me if I am speaking out of turn because I wanted to comment on the Living Roots project. Is this good or no? Yeah we will give you time to comment on that. Right now it would be four items that are not on the agenda. Okay I'm sorry thank you. Oh no worries no worries we'll look forward to hearing from you at that time. Okay thank you. Okay it looks like we have no other hands at this time. Okay moving on then to board business. I'd like to read our statement of purpose. Principal duties of the board include undertaking and updating historic inventories or surveys recommending designation of landmarks and preservation districts reviewing proposed alterations of historic buildings and promoting public awareness of preservation issues. Moving to 4.2 board member reports. Do any of the board members have anything they'd like to report at this time? So if you raise your hand. Seeing no hands raised we will move on then. 4.3 other items we have none at this time so we'll move on to item 5 department reports and I believe our staff liaison Ms. Murray have staff report for us. Yeah I do. I actually have something super positive. As many of you know we've been severely short staffed and we have just gone through a couple interview processes. Processes I guess and I'm happy to report that it looks like we've got some prospective planners coming on board. So what that means for you is you'll probably see some more projects coming to you and what that means for the citizens of Santa Rosa is we'll be able to step up the pace a little bit because there will be more of us. So I wanted to report that I think there were either four or five city planner positions so again we're real excited to have some of them coming on board and then we also had a recruitment and stay tuned for the deputy director position in our planning department so stay tuned I don't know the outcome of that but I'll be happy to report it in my next visit so I hope. Thank you Ms. Murray. Moving on then to item 6 statement of abstentions. Do any of our board members have any abstentions need to abstain from any of the items that we have today? I have a rental home under 300 feet away from 610 Orchard Street and then also there is a 1122 McDonald. I'm two doors down three doors down from that so probably under 200 feet. So that would then be the first two items or 8.2 and 8.3. Okay okay and I also need to abstain from 8.2. Let me let me bring Ms. Murray back up and because we won't then have a quorum for 8.2. Is it possible to do a straw on that? No unfortunately because board member Fennell is just out of town and she's not off board permanently. We will lose the quorum for that for that item so we are going to have to continue it. Well you know you know what I'm going to do is the the line the circumference line from my property just touches the corner of that property. I'm just outside so I'm not going to abstain. I'm going to I'm going to stay in. I don't have any financial interest in that or anything so I was going to abstain just because I was pretty close but I want to see the item move forward so at least one way or the other so I'm not going to abstain. Well I'll tell you what I I bet you my applicants are gleeful right now actually Monet's applicants. Thank you. Okay any other abstentions on track here? Okay that brings us to consent items which we have none item seven and then on to our scheduled items starting with item 8.1 which I forgot too many pieces. Fremont Park defined scope for future agenda discussion at 8444 street and this is a discussion continued an agenda highest discussion continued from the May 4th 2022 meeting and our presenting planner is Ms. Murray and would you like to start us off and then I'll jump in after you? I would and I'm hoping all the board members had an opportunity to read my memo about this. We have a process for getting items on to the agenda. It's a three-step process and we kicked that three-step process off on on March 2nd as chair Musa pointed out and so at that point we decided to add it to an agenda to add it to an agenda so so right today what staff is looking for from you is the scope of what you would like to talk about in the the third meeting which is actually a study session and we would also like to know what materials you would like staff to come prepared with and we need that information so that we can we can gauge the return date. I won't be able to give you a return date today but I will be able to give you a return date at our next meeting if it's not on that agenda. So this should be a very short meeting it's not it's not a time to discuss the project the park just the scope of what you would like to do at the park in terms of landmark designation. I have some photos that were in the packet materials which I'm happy to bring up on the screen if y'all would like. Actually I'm going to ask Michelle and Lonnie to help me with that if need be. Okay thank you just by chance is Ms. Santos and the wings tonight if we have questions for her? Yes I believe she's on I believe she's on the meeting but but she's yeah I don't know I don't think that any questions for her should really be part of tonight's discussion although information from her can be requested for the next session. Okay yeah let me just kind of take it just a little further with overview so basically at our last meeting we talked about potential landmark designation for Fremont Park or possibly the the elements or the items within Fremont Park. As Ms. Murray said today it's just a really brief discussion as to what we want to really or focus on at our next meeting and put on on the agenda there won't be a resolution at the next meeting it's it's just going to be bringing down the topic to actual action items that will require staff work and reports created and such should we go that direction. After that meeting and after and should this issue continue item continue towards landmark designation we would then have a a historical review report a staff report and a staff presentation and a resolution. Our board's resolution is basically a recommendation to the city council the city council would then have to take the item and it would be in their review to determine whether the park or its elements should have landmark designation so it's going to be kind of a drawn-out process and potentially one that there might have to be budget money found to accomplish but that's not to say that we can't you know continue on with it or go forward with it should we want to. One two of the questions that that I've had tonight that are really important questions to me as far as how we focus and move forward are one if Fremont park itself receives landmark status we know that the zoning has to be changed for that property with an H historic overlay. The question I have is if we just chose elements within the park such as the fountain the arbor you know the yew trees to be landmarks which our board can does the property zoning have to change to an H overlay and I've done some research of the 22 historic landmarks in the city of Santa Rosa and not all of them their zoning was changed there there's even houses that the zoning the property wasn't changed the Cottingtown sign the zoning wasn't changed for Cottingtown the flamingo the zoning wasn't changed so to me that's one of the big questions because having the zoning changed of the property is more significant in the process and more costly in the process than just choosing elements and if the board was interested in just you know the elements it might be an an easier you know way to go the second question I had was for the Santos and that was we had a discussion before and she indicated that they would probably be doing a historic evaluation or report on the park and and I'm wondering if that's been done or if there's plans for that to be done because that that would be useful information to determine whether we think is historic is is or is not so anyway those those are two questions um and then at at kind of at the end of our discussion amongst us our brief discussion about this um I plan to make a motion uh if a board member agrees with that motion I'll be looking for a second and then if a board member feels that there should that motion should be amended or something added there'll be an opportunity for that as well that'll need at that amendment we'll need a second and then we'll we'll move forward however if the board as a whole feels the motion isn't appropriate you'd be able to identify that through your vote so so this Murray's that all makes sense am I on the right track you're on the right track so um as far as what zoning is required for the landmark designation um I don't know the answer to that yet and I will certainly come back with the answer when we're ready to move forward on that or you know for the study session um I did speak with Jen Santos or just got a message from her that she's she can answer the question asked of her so um she'll get speaking rights right about now and she can respond okay this would be a good time to board members if you have any additional questions for her you know but again just kind of keep it brief because we'll probably have her at our next meeting for for a greater presentation and information I think at this point it's just technical questions nothing really about the park or yeah we've got to really keep a tight reign on what the discussion is hey everybody thank you chair Muser this is Jen Santos the deputy director for parks can you all hear me great uh so just to get back to your question about the historical evaluation we have not started that process yet um generally the the park project is generally on hold until we can have a further discussion with this with this board about what their interests where their interests may lie and then we can we can go from there on um how we decide to move forward with that uh process the historical evaluation or and what type and how deep all that all that kind of stuff we want to know some of the parameters before we get started so right now we're just in a holding pattern on the park project okay thank you very much anyone else have any other board members have any clarifying questions or for Jen okay saying none thank you miss Santos I sure appreciate you taking the time and we look forward to working with you in the future thank you same same here looking forward to the next meeting okay um I think before I go to the board for discussion um I do want to open this up to public comment um so miss Montoya is there um let's go ahead and and uh open public comment for this item and we'll see if we have anybody calling in okay thank you so much if you would like to make a public comment on this item please raise your hand now and for our call in the attendees um please press star nine to raise your hand okay Carol you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and please start by stating your name for the record oops it looks like she has her hand down um if anybody else would like to make a public comment on this item please raise your hand now okay chair me sir I see no public comment at this time okay um I will close then the public comment for this item and bring it back to the board so members of the board um basically um again we this is a discussion regarding landmark status for Fremont Park and an opportunity to give some thoughts or comments support or no support okay board member Garrett I support um the move to make the park a landmark and um I assume we would have the original drawings and all of that available to us when we actually go for the discussion okay thank you very much okay not seeing anyone else I'm going to go ahead then and um make a motion and we'll go from there there will be opportunity again to second a discussion any addition to the motion you'd like to add and then we'll vote um so I move that the board at the upcoming meeting at an upcoming meeting consider a landmark designation of Fremont Park or of its historical significant elements within the park and do I have a second board member Garrett I second the motion I'll open it up again for discussion would anybody like to add anything to that motion and board uh vice chair cut cells so I'm not sure if this is the night I want to add to the motion or more of a question um but you know I think before we could say you know this is eligible for landmark status we would need a full you know reports um so that we could formally kind of evaluate it make sure it meets all the criteria for landmarkings so I'm assuming that that process would take place prior to you know making this kind of designation is that what we're we're establishing what we want staff to put together for us uh what I'm saying is we would need a qualified person to come in and do a full study on and evaluating the park um in relation to landmark criteria before we make any recommendations absolutely um that's a a good point that you brought up and and so again kind of the process would be at our our next meeting based on the motion um we the board would need to identify what reports what elements um the board needs to make an educated and a logical decision on whether it should have landmark status so right now we're just in the exploratory phase of it I know that Miss Santos will will be a great help in helping us make that those determinations and uh so um yeah so we're not asking you to to basically say tonight that it should receive we're just basically saying that we're gonna move forward with uh determining whether it qualifies for landmark status or any of its elements qualify for landmark status any other comments okay so with that um so Miss Montoya if we could call for a vote on the motion that was seconded by board member Garrett okay um so we are doing a vote board member boran aye board member Garrett aye member palm aye vice chair pritzellus aye and chair mesir aye okay the motion carries all members present tonight voting aye okay moving on then to item uh 8.2 the sub-public hearing for living roots fire rehab and church restoration a landmark alteration at 6 10 orchard street lma-20-008 now read the background major landmark alteration permit for alterations is an existing religious facility including one rehabilitation of a fire damaged two-story personage and two restoration of a steeple on a church structure the proposed personage would include a primary dwelling unit and an accessory dwelling unit as well as instructional classrooms a kitchen and office areas for church related uses the church structure alterations include restoration of a steeple and accessibility improvements to entryways on the south and north evaluations our project planner is uh monay oh boy somebody helped me with monay's last name so i don't destroy it it's monay chicali and you're stuck with me again because monay chicali is on vacation so i'm going to be filling in for night i see i see that now presenting planner miss burry all right so i i have to go ahead and share my screen and while i'm getting there share i hope can you see the presentation yes or my email there there we go so before i get started just knowing that this monay has been very much involved in this project and i have just learned a bit about it in the last few days so this was kind of a short notice vacation the applicant uh team including two architects are available for questions and so i'm going to give the presentation but i will probably defer to them for most of the answers unless if for your questions unless it's something that's more related to uh process so the project before you is the living rooms fire rehab and church restoration it does involve a major landmark alteration the prod the the two buildings are located on the same property um 610 orchard street and 801 cherry street miss murray if i could just interrupt you and i think board member wang i think you need to um weren't you going to abstain from this yes so i should log off yes you don't need to log if you just um shut off your video and close your mic and then you can you can watch on and when the item is or when the items are over that you're abstaining from you can come back on okay great thank you so as i was saying here we go so the project uh proposes alterations to to both buildings rehabilitation of the fire damage two-story arsenic including an encroachment into the side yard setback um and restoration of the steeple on the church structure including an increase in height so the the site this is an aerial view of the neighborhood to give you a kind of a neighborhood context as you can see it's surrounded by several residential uses for sure and then here's kind of a closer bird's eye view of the property itself here's a a site plan um of the you know existing conditions and then here we're letting you know that the general plan land use designation is low density residential and it's owned our one six which is consistent with that it's single family residential zoning and it's within the age or historic combining district this is a photograph of the church believe uh in its in its heyday um the the red box um on the historic photo on the that occupies most of the screen here outlines where the steeple once stood and in this photograph it was there so this is uh kind of pre-fire conditions for with the front porch of the of the residential unit on the property and right here she outlines the the porch in red again these are pre-fire photographs of the church and and the um residential structure more and existing conditions right now which um will be addressed in the the remodel existing conditions after the fire where the buildings the windows and what not are boarded up here's the floor plan for the personage on the first floor and the second floor floor plan the church floor plan and then of course the two elevations that show the steeple at 65 I think it's well not quite 65 feet 62 and a half feet and um the renovations for the uh the residential structure east elevations and north and south elevations back uh gosh I'm not sure if it was 2019 or 2020 this project came into the board um on a concept basis there were several elements that the applicant was asked to address one of them was light fixtures and and just to provide an idea of what they were they would be installing they've done that I'm going to back that because that triggered a thought here um the other thing that they were asked to address on this slide on the in the lower left hand corner were the garage doors I guess they were arched before I'm not I'm sure the applicant could provide more information on that but the board requested or suggested uh square garage doors they also suggested apparently the the the um open space that's on top of the garage garages um is kind of an open space for the uh pastor and his family and um because there's not a lot of room for that on the site and it was all open like almost a picket fence I believe uh during the concept review and the board suggested closing it in so there would be some privacy up there and whatnot so their uh alternative or what they've done which yeah the how they've addressed that comment is to kind of do some enclosed some some exposed so you can see that on this elevation as well we'll get past the sconces here so this is a more lifelike um um uh image of of the changes the um the balcony on the the residential structure will wrap on three sides um and that is is a new it's new and it encroaches into the setback on the back side of the building um but there's a stairway there and now it's kind of a funny stairway it doesn't seem to lead to anywhere I don't know the history of that but um so we're already encroaching into the setback I guess that's my point so again here's more lifelike pictures renderings and with that it's recommended by the planning and economic development department that the cultural heritage board approve a landmark alteration permit for the property located at 610 orchard street and 801 cherry street my contact information is on this slide however monisha collie is probably the person who can best answer questions for people writing in after the meeting I will forward any emails I get I know that the applicant does not have a presentation but they are available and anxious to answer any questions and I'm going to ask the applicant to raise their hand if you want to say a few words or just wait to keep your hand down if you want to wait to be asked okay oh I see a hand this right applicant senna you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute I think I found it can you guys hear me we can go ahead awesome I just uh wanted to thank you guys for your time we've been really excited about this opportunity it's been since 2019 since we first presented uh to you guys and uh we've been doing a lot of work behind the scenes with engineers and architects and whatnot and so uh chair muser as you were almost going to abstain I was like oh no we're gonna have to wait longer so I'm so glad that uh you're here and your guys this time thank you tonight we're I'm looking forward to answering any questions you guys have and our architects are on as well I believe I can't see all who's who's on the meeting from my end but I believe they're here thank you guys for your time okay thank you um before I I bring this to the board for discussion I'd like to uh go ahead and open up uh this is a public hearing so I'd like to open up for public comment so uh this Montoya if we could open uh the public uh comment absolutely we are pulling the timer up now all right first we have Carol Carol if you could start please start by stating um your name for the record hello my name is Carol case and I'm the property owner at 807 cherry street which is next door to the church and just a little background I've owned the property for over 20 years and the back staircase there was a question on where does the staircase lead prior to the fire the staircase led up to a living quarters for the pastor back 20 years ago or 15 years ago I have several concerns one of which there is an open issue with ordinance regarding sound and that has I referred that to Monet and she's apparently still working on it I am very concerned about the sound uh the first thing though is I'd like to be assured that the city of Santa Rosa will maintain proper control over this project and that the city will require consistent compliance with the current building codes secondly the work will be done during business hours and during the week my tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment and on the quite enjoyment on the weekends and during the evenings after five p.m the building itself is a four-unit building um and it's been a four-unit building since 1947 the next thing I would like to be assured that all work will be done by licensed contractors um in addition to that there's been a discussion about the five foot setback and encroaching into the five foot setback I would highly recommend that we revisit that because that five foot setback with the stairs is right on the property line and it might pose a health and safety issue for fire access I don't know this I'm new to this process so I don't know how the process has been moving along or who's been out to the property but the the other thing is privacy I'm very concerned about privacy for my tenants because the building my building is a two-story building currently the upstairs units look directly into the church and over to the side of the church so potentially you could look directly into the the um parsonage uh living quarters there's been no discussion that I can see about these the oak tree in front of the building because it does it does have portions of the oak tree on the church property and um but my and also just the steeple is the steeple going to have bells or is it just for aesthetic um improvement so I um I think that the biggest problem or not probably the biggest question I have is the is quiet enjoyment for my tenants and noise so I thank you for all of your work because it's a it's a beautiful presentation but I think I would like to see more work done on it so that there are some of my answers could be addressed and I would appreciate it thank you thank you mess king um so um just to kind of recap um your concerns are um sound related to church activities um making sure we have proper control over the project and that the they follow all city uh requirements make sure the work is done during proper time periods that's associated with the residential neighborhood that they use to let license contractors um concerns over the five foot setback regarding fire access um um privacy um um probably maintaining the health of the oak tree and the question of whether there'll be a bell in this the steeple so um at the end of a public comment I'm going to ask um uh Steph uh liaison um Murray to see if she can address those items for you um do we have anyone else who'd like to comment okay um we do and just a quick reminder for our call-in attendees if you would like to raise your hand to um uh submit your public comment you would press star nine next we have john john you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please start by stating your full name for the record uh yes john d lila um I as far as the project goes I think it's an enhancement for the property and definitely for the neighborhood um the um I mean you guys have all seen it and you've already commented on it and had one and change is done and so I just think it's uh an asset to the community of being that it's a an extremely old building that was built 142 years ago so but I think the architect did an excellent job in the flow of the building and stuff so I think any other you know any issues can always be overcome I think with a little work and and stuff so again I'm I just I'm really excited about the project and I think it's just going to be an enhancement thank you thank you john so um thank you for your words um just to recap you're pretty positive about it an enhancement and an asset to the community have anybody up next not seen any further hands but we did receive an email that I would um like to read into the record for you all if you could give me just one moment um while I pull it out okay dear planters your colleague we are writing to express our very strong support for the application submitted by living roots to restore their church rectory in the cherry street historic district as you know the structure and question was severely damaged by a fire some years ago the current owners have done an admirable job with limited funds to bring the property back now they hope to complete the work with the installation of a new fire and the restoration recovery completion of living units one of which will be affordable the current state of the property is an eyesore in our community the proposed work will restore it to a condition which is um sorry I lost the email excuse me which is um commerce net with its central location in our neighborhood we strongly urge approval of this much needed property our only hesitation is that we wish the project included more units allison um dykstra and andrew shulman owners occupants at 7037 street cherry street historic district okay and it looks like we have um more hands moses you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute anything to please start by stating your name for the record hi yes so yeah i'm moses galler and we're at 722726 cherry street and i imagine you're hearing me hopefully we hear you oh great so um we are really excited that this project can move forward um i think we're between 12 and 14 years of this burned out structure and we really want the improvements to go in and and we've gotten to know the the folks that have turned in this reconstruction project and they're really really cool people and i i look to see the church being really good for our community so we are a double yes to make this go forward i hope that they have all the funds so that this will move efficiently we we as a community really waited a long time so there you have it i wish him the best and i wish all of us the best thank you thank you moses thank you for the comments do we have anyone else okay um carol i see that you've raised your hands again unfortunately during a public hearing you are allotted one three-minute period to share your comments and feedback i am not seeing any further hands at this time okay with that um i'd like to close the public comment period this murray would it be possible for you to address the items that miss keen had at this time or or give us some information regarding that i'm happy to before i forget though i want to make sure that we do an expert a disclosure oh yes we can do it now or we can do it before you all start chatting about this let's go ahead and do it right now so um calling for an expert a disclosure so basically if anyone has had any um uh viewed the side or talked to any applicants or had any discussions on this project and i see uh board over care um i was a part of the original um concept reviews several years ago three or four years ago and i um of course have gone by the project has actually twice um just recently okay i also went by the project um that i have not spoken to anyone regarding the project till tonight okay with that back to you miss murray okay let me see what i can do about addressing uh some of these questions i am not sure um let's see i don't believe um i'm going to defer to the applicant team the architect to talk about the bells and the steeple if there are bells or chimes or anything that i don't have an answer to as far as trees uh the the tree question has come up before and money made me aware that there is no proposal to remove a tree or and we can certainly condition the project so that if any work is going to be done that could threaten the health of the tree then an arborist would be required to be on site although i don't anticipate that to be an issue but as a safety measure the board can add a condition that an arborist be on site during um any ground disturbing activities that would upset the tree um the city has a noise ordinance regardless if we condition the project any any business any any function is required to adhere to the noise ordinance um we can we can add that certainly add that in as an uh as a condition of approval but as i said regardless if it's there or not we all have to abide by those rules in our homes and businesses as well um the as far as the let's see there was another question uh the there's setback privacy what am i missing chair muser on that so as far as the setbacks i know i before i lose the noise thought i'm going to come back set setbacks the other thing is if you look at the conditions of approval miss chicali did um actually limit the hours of construction which is something that we do pretty pretty frequently when it's in an area surrounded by residential uses acknowledging that you know people get up and you know they need to get children ready for school or or may not want to get out of bed before you know eight o'clock on a weekday so she's limited to construction hours from eight a.m to five p.m monday through friday and from nine a.m to six p.m on saturdays and this is she's done that intentionally to just to be a nice neighbor um our standard hours are seven a.m to seven p.m monday through friday and uh nine to six on saturdays so um then i'm getting into the setback and privacy miss chicali addressed this in the the findings um and uh mr perry mark perry the um consultant the historic consultant addressed this in his evaluation um i think i'm going to defer to him i believe he's on today i think i saw his name in the context and i think i'm going to defer to him and let him respond to that and if i need if if you want anything more from me afterwards i'm happy to to chime in so let's defer to the applicant team for uh any bells or chimes in the steeple and the setback and privacy issue hello my name is michael andrey titch i'm the architect for the project can you all hear me yes we can okay great i have major zoomophobia so bear with me i i like that there's no video but uh thank you for your time board members and susie um i'm sure it's real fun getting handed a project with the few days to prepare but you did great with the presentation and i'd like to answer some of the questions and certainly carol's concerns uh let's start with the um tower um of course i've tried to replicate exactly what the old photograph showed uh it's been a labor of love taking quite a bit of time and i never saw a bell in any of the photos so right now there's no intention of a heavy iron bell being rung however we did talk about a digital uh one possibly for occasions of a milestone occasions christmas easter and whatnot and sound ordinance sound ordinances would be respected and certainly timing uh i think i only spoke with art about this one time so it's just a concept for me uh saving money and space and weight you don't want to put something heavy up high in the air and california with seismic concerns so if there was any bells or chimes uh it'd be digital in nature um and no bell swinging back and forth and weighing a thousand pounds that could fall from the tower so i hope that helps answer that question um building codes oh my gosh yes no one gets off easy trust me they'll put us through the ringer with the plans that i continue to work on and work during business hours of course uh what susie just mentioned we have to cater to that licensed contractors we have electrical and plumbing contractors in the congregation however due to the nature of the project and fundraising there'll be a lot of owner bill there swinging of hammers but luckily we all know which end of the hammer to pick up and would certainly be respective of noise issues and and things related to neighbors being comfortable with our work going on but in general it'd be licensed contractors for the big ticket items and pounding some nails may need to be cost wise a function of the church members are doing so um sound um as related to a couple things um susie if i could ask you to pull up a 2.2 the second floor plan while i speak to the rest of these comments would probably help everyone is that possible if it's not for me i know that my friends in the chamber will help me out here but i'm going to give it a whirl so okay great i'll i'll start talking while they're trying to get that up the upper level plan is an existing almost a box almost a almost a perfect square the floor plan walls are very well respected with just a few nuances to accommodate the new design mark berry the historic architect made a good point for insulating the walls and these these structures typically didn't have any plywood back in the day so the siding is just nailed to the wall framing and a great way to insulate the building and they come in on the inside and they do the spray foam if you've ever seen that and it expands inside the wall cavity it's very dense it does an incredible amount of soundproofing over bat insulation so we think that'd be a huge upgrade we kind of need to do it vapor barrier wise so i wanted carol to know that the insulation that does go on the walls is i'm just guessing probably four to six fold more dense and sound prohibitive for noise transmission and then if you look at the floor plan here on the top of the sheet you see kitchen and master bedroom and the kitchen has a mechanical room right in front of it if you drew a line from the word kitchen to the word mechanical it kind of would go straight over to carol's property and where some of the noise issues may be so there's already a buffer there of that the mechanical little room there when you're in the kitchen of course you're at the sink most of the time so that person would be looking out to the south along the kind of narrower deck yeah there and in the master bedroom you're at sleep at night and you wake up and you're kind of out in the family room dining room and kitchen the rest of the day so i don't see a lot of emphasis on that east wall at the top of the sheet looking looking you know back and forth between neighbors i just i just don't see it really happening and while we had the sheet pulled up i just wanted to point out mona asked me to speak to the setback and i don't know if there's any way to zoom in on that but those are keynotes on the right you guys and just starting with number one that's the existing landing that comes into the existing kitchen and it's in place right now if we all walked over there right now you see the landing and that's keynote number one existing porcelain landing at parts parsonage entry debris built it's kind of falling down and then please go to keynote number two and i dashed in the existing stairs that again i just took a photo the other day i wish i had it for you but those stairs are there rickety as they are coming up to the existing landing at one and obviously this is existing it was built in this part was 1890 church was 1888 but in the new design the reason we're extending more deck and moving the stair was that the roof deck design needed a way of egress off of it so if you go to the left hand side of the sheet you can see the roof deck this is kind of the yard area for for the parsonage people there's very limited ground area to play play on and this is a safe place for the kids to to be and can you go to keynote number three and then just a few feet down from it you can see that three or four steps coming up to the roof deck so i kind of needed to the roof decks higher than the landing i needed to get egress to and from the roof deck for fire safety and then i put the stairs directly against the parsonage to be able to start the stair down to grade keynote number four as close as i could to that i had to miss some windows and doors of the entry into the adu so i just wanted the board members and everyone and carol to understand the kind of design sequence to how really the stairs reposition from number two to four but it's basically all the same concept a stair with the landing that's already been within the setback of the property there and kind of is what it is so that's that and and then if you could go to the elevations i can speak to some issues there board member garrett you're correct you were there at the first presentation and zooming in on the west elevation at the garage there i had a kind of arch top door on there and we've revised to the squared off door there'll be it'll have some carriage type hardware on it and look kind of cool and then to your point while the landmark building is a stone throw away and i work right next to it in college which has a railing around the whole upper level and i actually thought it net looked better but to your point of asking to close in i think you i think the suggestion was really forward-looking and well received in that this as i mentioned is the kind of front yard if you will for the parsonage and i believe someone at the initial meeting spoke of well there'll probably be a barbecue up there and a lounge chair and whatnot so it could be screened that a little bit so long story short i did a combo got some open railing in there at all the outside corners i have a good four foot chunk of wall it makes it strong and then straight ahead the gap in between the garage and the parsonage you can see that's solid back there so there's a if you're in plan a z shape of solid wall there so much of it is contained and yet as we look at the other elevations you can see there's portions of open rail so i thought it was a nice compromise and and got over my ego a little bit and realized that hey it is going to screen any stuff if you will that'll be up there so that was that you asked for the windows on the front elevation to get a little taller so the upper level and the lower level were both increased by a foot they're six foot four wide went up there and measured the existing opening so we're trying to work with the existing framing as much as possible but the windows were you got a note here the original they were five foot tall up above and four foot tall down below and now up above it's six foot tall and the lower level is five foot tall both one foot taller making a little more vertical i have egress safety issues to deal with and then at the lower level there's a very high strange curb in the lower level areas that i'm contending with so i think that's about as much windows i can give there it's been a labor of love we really feel like the whole project will be like a hub to the community with all that's going on in the world i think this is such a positive project and i think i think we'll all be well served by seeing it through to completion and thank you for your time this is mark perry can you hear me i can hear you thank you i'm a federally qualified architectural historian and preservation architect and i have consulted with the architect and the design team from the earliest phases of this actually i had done work on the addition of the building for previous owners of bathroom at the back so i'm very familiar with it i knew the building before it burned down it is a historic rehabilitation in that the design theme is sensitive to and in a large part restoring much of the original building the the canopy or the balcony at the rear building is been carefully crafted to reiterate what was already there the wraparound porch although a newer element is typical of the era um and i just wanted to underline a couple of points if you look at the site plan the um the bat the after we get there you'll note that this building does not actually look at the property next door it's into the backyard uh the property next door looks at the back of the existing sanctuary so it isn't entirely correct that people will be looking into the property next door um and the bulk of the of the uh personages being is in the same condition it was at um so there really isn't a change other than to the deck which is at the upper third of the property at best and i think that's overlooking a garage on the property next door and the final issue and we need to be reminded that historic projects are based on precedence zoning planning uh that is what's going on before if it went on before and it worked and was needed and useful you can continue to do that which is what's going on with that exiting it's slid up but it is still it's moved up the site about 10 feet but it is still a required exit path and it still works as an exit path and so it isn't a prescription you can't necessarily or you have the option of not making it meet all the current codes uh but historic properties can be precedence based and they have met those and continue to use those planning zoning precedences that were on the property prior to the fire and we're just getting it back to utility and um i give it a big thumbs up i think it's a my mica has done a really fine job and it really is um and you don't often see restoration such as that tower it's really a cool thing that he's actually entirely detailed that tower to restore the previous one so i i say yay let's do thank you miss hurry back to you thank you mr perry i i would like to add just one little element and that is for the the concerns about the contractors in addition to having some i'm sure very skilled people building or implementing these these changes there will also be several city inspections that comes as a bonus with building permits so so to hopefully put carol's mind at ease this will be done safely okay thank you miss murray yeah and i um and again just you know final comments to miss kink it's you know unfortunately any restoration uh project or anything there's going to be noise involved but there are um the city does have um um regulation that will keep keep hopefully the noise and uh you know the one thing that that i would tell the applicant is your contractors that come in they don't realize that the noise ordinance begins at eight o'clock in residential neighborhoods typically they want to start at seven o'clock so you may have to you know hold them off to just keep you from getting sideways with your neighbors or and and also making sure that they quit you know before five o'clock that they're not working especially in the summertime into the evening hours uh break up concrete or whatever so anyway okay with that i think we're ready to bring this back to the board for comment and any further questions or clarifications from either susie or the architect or the applicant i'm seeing hands by up for both the architect and the applicant are you wanting to speak i this is art senna um just wanted to speak a little bit about the contractor we do have total concepts a well-known contracting company the owner has agreed to head the project and so he as well as an engineer a company have been already overlooking the project and taking care of that so we're going to be under his leadership and in regards to overseeing volunteer teams that's going to be my role personally as the pastor on site my number one priority is to make sure to love my neighbors well and most of the neighbors we interact with know that we care about them we're involved in the neighborhood and we care about what's going on there the last thing i would want is to give god a bad rap and so whether people love god or don't love god my role is to just be a good representation of him and so whether it's carol our neighbor or others you know as concerns are shared with me i'm going to do my best to make sure we care for people well in general and so i will be overlooking the start and finish of any project as we've inherited this building in 2018 and from then on we've been trying to be a blessing to the neighborhood and so we're really excited about this and we're continuing to pray that god would raise the rest of the funds we've raised over a hundred thousand dollars we're really excited about have some pretty big grant opportunities we've just applied for and we're just looking forward to continuing to be a blessing in the neighborhood so that's that's it for me right now thanks okay thank you very much mr perry did you have something you want to say i see a hand up no comment okay yeah maybe um if you put your hand down and how about um our architect for sure andrex okay we're good all right his hand just went back up sorry i'm clicking all over the place here no comment here unless someone had another question for me okay thank you okay back to the board so any hands the board it's time okay board member gary i'm laughing because i think i'm always the first person to talk um i i would actually like to congratulate the applicants um i think they've done a really wonderful job of um presenting this as as a restoration and i'm excited to see the steeple come back um i have a couple of comments to make that but other than other than those um i um i'm ready to vote for this project to go forward uh i the the open and close you know that's sort of hybrid of the rail which i talked about before um i still think that that the person and his family will be a lot happier if that is solid i had an open rail off the master bedroom of my old house and it was quite a large patio and it was very uncomfortable to use it because we literally were on display for the neighborhood um so i think closing that off entirely or predominantly on the front and that back on the side would be something to think about um and then to the late the miss miss kane um i live across the street currently from a very large church that has a very large congregation and i can assure you that the noise from the church even this large large church i live across the street from is minimal um they do have a church bell and it's actually quite lovely it brings four times a day at nine noon three and six um and it has never bothered us uh so i you know i don't know about the sound being the building sound or the congregation sound when they're coming and going from church but we've never had a problem with that parking however sometimes is an issue i um i i think the project is really wonderful and the only other comment i have is purely an opinion and an aesthetic issue and that would be i think i would not go too heavily into the blue trim paint on the back buildings because the building you really want to focus on is that beautiful church and the new steeple you'll be putting up and i think the restoration is going to be spectacular so good job thank you okay board member born um i absolutely agree with capi on the blue trim over the garage and and that i feel i exactly it takes away from the church um so that would that would be my comment and i know this has gone this building has gone through so many reincarnations over the years it was even a synagogue at one time way back so um but i think it's a lovely project thank you board member born uh vice chair pratt cellist so i'm also really excited and supportive of this project um i don't have any questions i just wanted to thank um the authors of the historic research uh survey and simple evaluation that was a really um well put together report i really appreciated how clearly the criteria was organized was very easy to follow um also super interesting so thank you for putting that together and i'm just excited to see how this unfolds thank you vice chair pratt cellist for the comments i'll make my comments real quick um you know i i came from that neighborhood a few years ago uh from semithen humboldt i don't live there uh now anymore in fact i was living there when the church burned and it was a very sad day for the neighborhood um i've uh um been waiting and watching and hoping for uh the rebuild um and i'm i'm very excited uh to see it happen um i do see some of the concerns uh i feel like are um based on being a church itself concerns versus the remodel concerns and i think for me what's important to remember is this has been a church it's still a church it's it's always had the concerns regarding the church and if there are concerns with how the church operates i think that's probably another venue with the city and that our venue is more to look at um the remodel and if we approve you know the uh repair and the remodel appropriately which i i too um will support at this time and uh don't have any requests for any changes or concerns so any final comments from board member before i asked for the resolution to be read board member garret since um you've been on this project all along the way that i uh asked you to if you'd be willing to uh read the resolution and you're on mute there we go sorry i'm gonna see if i can get it uh i actually don't have it i'm unable to access the i legislate right now um yeah they uh they did a really fun thing on the day of our meeting to uh do the password uh great and i can't i for some reason i haven't been able to get on it but um i totally understand i would be low i would actually love to to move the resolution but i think someone else will have to do it uh do we have another board member who would like to read the resolution or has it in front of them my share pratt tell us i have it in front of me i'm not sure like which part i have to read the whole thing just the first i'm sorry say that again um i have the resolution in front of me but you just need me to read read the first correct uh right all right resolution of the cultural heritage board of the city of san ariza approving a landmark alteration permit for alterations to an existing religious facility including one rehabilitation of a fire damage two-story personages personage and two restoration of steeple on a church structure for the property located at 610 orchard street and 801 cherry street assessor parcel numbers zero zero nine zero three three zero one four and zero zero nine zero three three zero one three file number lma 20-008 thank you and could we have a second board member carrot i second it thank you okay thank you okay so um at this time uh we have an opportunity for any further discussion or questions if anybody wants to add anything to as a friendly amendment to the resolution or we'll move forward for more seeing no hands uh miss montoya if we could call oh partner gary i do have a question um if they would like to um to either you know completely enclose that uh railing on the top of the garage do we have to say that that would be all right with us in the resolution um or yeah that's a good question though we won't want them to have to come back to us so miss murray would that be a friendly amendment would be a friendly amendment and you can add it in as a condition where if they so choose they can modify and enclose more or all of that that area so can we add that to the resolution then yeah so board member gary if you would uh just give us a brief uh language and then i'll call for a second on that because we'll need to in fact we'll have to get well let's see board member garret was the second of the original motion so how does how does that work miss murray um we usually go back to is there somebody else willing to make that motion yeah i'll make the motion um i make a motion a friendly amendment to make a motion that should the applicant want to completely enclose the railing above the garage uh space um that the board um would approve that so and then can i second that and then you would need to second it because you seconded the original but um actually let's see miss murray does our originator of the um original amendment so uh vice chair prasellus do you uh agree with that yeah okay good and then board member gary do you agree with that friendly amendment is for that yes i support that okay and i'm just going to ask the applicant real quick you know just because i i think we should always go back to them are you okay with that having that option i'm so blessed to have that option and i'm thankful for the insight and i would like to talk a little bit more about should we paint it all white like the blue takes away so we could talk about that later but thank you so much this is great yeah yeah we're not going into colors at this point we're gonna vote okay so we have um the original resolution uh with the friendly amendment to give the option of closing in the uh the upper railing or leaving it open applicants just discretion and uh miss montoya and unless we have any other comments could we call for a vote absolutely board member boran hi board member garret hi vice chair prasellus hi and chair me sir hi and so the resolution passes with the friendly amendment by all eyes of all board members present okay moving on to our and correct congratulations to the applicant and we look forward to uh the progress and thanks for your time and effort of everybody involved the architect and the historian and i i do also agree the historical report was really really fun a really really fun read so thank you so we're on to item let me get some notes here item 8.3 this public hearing for front yard landscape and hardscape landmark alteration at 1 1 2 2 mcdonald avenue lma 21-018 dash dash something continued from may 4th uh 2022 meeting uh background landmark alteration permit to allow the following alterations to a structure and property within the mcdonald avenue preservation district at brick steps from brick walkway to the porch replace rotten wood steps from the driveway to porch with bricks add brick skirt to front of house to cover foundation at porch height replace existing brick concrete driveway with brick install brick walkways in front install fountain on brick walkway to front door and replace existing rotten porch deck with brick and landscape hardscape brick add new wooden fencing to front yard um and i'm going to go ahead and call for it now ahead of time so any ex parte communication on this project for member care um i used to live down the street from the project and i currently live a couple blocks away and i go by it all the time um and i've talked um several times within the past with the applicants thank you um and board member press house uh i just drove by and looked at the place but i haven't had any communication and board member borne i have also seen the location but have had no conversation and i also have walked my dog by there uh on on many occasions favorite uh walking route so okay with that um and our project planner uh for this project is christina to me and uh we'll turn it over to you thank you chair muser and members of the cultural heritage board i'm christine two means senior planner and i'm happy to present one one two two mcdonald avenue landmark alteration you may recognize this project because it came before you on march second um as a concept um landmark alteration permit review and as you mentioned um in your introduction um there are several items included in the project description um adding brick steps from brick walkway to porch replacing rotten woods wooden steps from driveway to porch with brick steps adding a brick skirt to the front of the house to cover foundation at porch height i replace existing brick concrete driveway with um brick install brick walkways in front install a small fountain on the brick walkway to the front door replace existing rotten porch deck with brick and um brick walkways with planting areas as well as a front yard picket fence this is the project location it's near the corner of spencer avenue mcdonald on an interior lot here is the proposed site plan showing the uh landscape configuration with the brick walkways and planter areas um here is the existing elevation that the applicant provided excuse me i don't think we have the presentation up oh oops let me go back i apologize no worries take your time oops here goes what's up okay apologize so here's the project description that i uh went went through the itemized list of all the different um elements that the applicant is hoping to um alter to the front landscaping and also to um the front facade of the of the house which includes the adding the brick skirt the front house here's the project location near the corner of spencer and mcdonald avenue it's on an interior lot here is the um applicant site plan showing a bird's eye view of the landscaping um hardscape um that would be mostly brick um and the pavement configuration that he's proposed this is the existing um street elevation that the applicant provided and here's the proposed street elevation with the addition of 16 um 16 inches of brick um to cover the foundation um of the front of the the residence there's an additional drawing that the applicant provided showing a brick walkway and brick skirting here's the proposed material uh paving brick that the applicant has chosen as well as a um front fence detail and brick skirt detail and you can see in the top right the proposed picket fence around the front yard and here's some original site photos i believe this photo i can move this over from march it's from march 2021 here's some site photos from august 2021 oops sorry here's here are photos from december 2021 showing some of the brick pavers here's uh uh what the applicant described as a current site photo from december 2021 sort of a hollywood drive or ribbon drive to the garage in the back and i believe these are the rotten um wooden steps that the applicant is proposing to replace with brick and um at that march 2nd 2022 chp meeting where this was brought before the board as a concept uh plan the chp acknowledged that the design guidelines specifically says not to replace wooden porches with brick it conceded that redwood is no longer considered a hardwood there are many instances of replacement brick porches in the mcdonald neighborhood and the applicant has provided some examples um of some brick porches um near the project site um there was also additional concern um posed by the board regarding removal of any original siding on the house to accommodate the the new brick skirting the applicant at that meeting in march stated that he could install the brick in such a way that the change could be reversed and not alter the original siding the board stated that they you had no issues or concerns with the brick walkways driveways fence fountain or landscaping so i believe the main concern at that meeting was over the brick skirting and this is my contact information if anybody um in the public attending or listening in would like to submit a comment my email is ktoomians at srcity.org and my um office number is 707-543-4692 the applicant mr bean is available if you have questions of him and i'm available for questions and comments thank you thank you um is the applicant um wanted to make any comments or presentation tonight not seeing any no i think we've thoroughly discussed it at the march second meeting okay thank you okay um then i will uh go ahead and um this is public hearing so let's open it up for any public comment so okay if you would like to make a public comment on this item please raise your hand and if you are calling the attendee please press star nine okay and i'm not seeing any hands at this time okay with that i will close public comment and bring it back to the board for discussion or questions and board member gary i have a question as to um why this is coming to us when the majority actually all the work except the brick porch itself um everything has been completed and in fact additionally um shutters have been added that i don't think we're on the original um request and certainly are not original to the house um i've pulled up photos out of the mcdonald avenue book that was written by anna connor and there were um no shutters um dr bean said last at the um last meeting that um this this home was in a mirror image of the neighbor to the north of which um mistoumian showed a photo of and and the two photos are also in the mcdonald avenue book and um he's right they they both had exactly the same harbor um and the same um entry which was from the parking strip there were no front steps um originally and actually the front door on the photo in the mcdonald avenue book is on the side wall as it is in the house to the north so i just have questions about how that process works um and um i i still have my same concerns i mean our um mandate as a cultural heritage board is to protect and promote the long-term preservation of the properties within an historic district and um i i see if we're removing some of those um materials that both the city guidelines the state guidelines and the secondary of interiors guidelines um say are important to maintain and not and also not to add um materials that were not original which in this case would be the brick um citing all on the um um on the foundation um i i would like an explanation for all that and and the brick citing is already partially up and i'd like to know how that was installed that so that it can be removed easily so i have a lot of questions so i can speak to one portion of your um questions which is regardless of when and if the work was done um the applicant would be required to obtain a permit um whether it was um you know before work is performed or after the fact so um in some ways he's legalizing a lot of the landscaping work that was done without benefit of permit um staff was not aware of um shutters being part of the proposal so that was a new information to us um and so i would pose the rest of your questions to the applicant uh mr uh jeff bean uh to answer okay question one yes of this being i think the question was um regarding that uh if shutters have been put on the building um without going through this process and also the um state of construction that you've been progressing um without approval at this point yes uh some shutters were added to the front windows they're held on by two screws screws went the top one the bottom is the uh removable um to add my third color to the house this is shelly bean i built them i made them i routered them i painted them i put them up didn't think it was any big deal to add a third color dimension to the house um like i said there's one screw up top one screw in the bottom okay yeah i think um i guess you know the the principles of being in a historic neighborhood and and uh it was involved and in being an owner in the historic neighborhood um you may want to um kind of become more familiar with that um the difficulty for our board is you're in the middle of one process but then if you start something else that that hasn't been addressed it just makes things more complicated um for our board uh to make a decision i think tonight um i'd like to just focus on the resolution as it's written and the items that are are written as far as the shutters or any other changes go i'm going to um um leave that back to our planner to work with that with with the applicant um if proper permitting is required but we really um can't address the those items tonight because those items the shutters and such aren't really before us tonight and um i'll ask miss murray to kind of uh uh chime in on this as well and if she has any additional guidance to give us so we have a couple options so we've got elements that we're not we're not included that have already been applied for and we don't have any um any documentation or any way to research those elements the shutters um i'm i'm assuming that's it i don't know for sure that there are other things that haven't been added and i'll defer to the the beans to let us know that but my my recommendation would be rather than i mean the two options that we have are move forward with what we have and they go back through the process or a new permit to legalize those or we condition the project to remove what's there um or we continue it until we can get approval on on those those i or approval for those items um that were not included or not approval review till we have an opportunity to review them um which we don't we don't have that time right now i think there would also be a some sort of a historic report that would likely be required but the board does have options i'm going to ask the beans if you guys could please mute yourselves while i'm talking i would appreciate it or if staff can thank you um so you do have options you can approve what's before you this evening you can approve it and add a condition to remove the shutters until they're approved or you can approve or you can continue it to add the full scope of work to come back to you at a later date and i will leave that option those options out for you to discuss okay i'm going to go back to um good beans and basically based on what uh miss murray has told us you do have an option of continuing this item which would give you an opportunity to um bring back to the board the additional changes such as the shutters for review your application would be you know updated to include that or we can just um move forward tonight with your existing application but would probably result in having the shutters removed and get your thoughts if i could so if we can we go through everything else first and then say okay we're going to reapply for the shutters or are you saying that if we want to leave the shutters up and then we have to go through this whole process just to vote for the shutters and then we got to wait for everything else um if you continue the item to include the shutters yes you'd have to wait for everything else um if we move through the process tonight basically you'd have to um remove the shutters um as a code compliance uh and um to get the shutters back on you would have to probably go through this whole process again okay good um so if i took the shutters down and then i wanted that third color and i painted had a painter come in and paint shutter looking like um you know paint looking like shutters then that's okay you just can't have the two screws in the wood touching the house for the third color yeah our the board doesn't typically regulate painting or paint colors um but it does um it does regulate forward facing part of the structure uh changes which include windows and shutters and such uh board member gary um shutters are not generally applied to um the crescent type cottages like this um there are none in the neighborhood that have them there they don't show up in any of the books i consulted um so that would be and that would be adding in a something that is contrary to the age and the property um and yeah my concern here is not the aesthetics of what's what's happening but the fact that we are charged with keeping our historic districts um you know in good condition and and and properties that are part of those preservation districts um need to keep their historic value and once we start destroying that fabric in you know one property that will continue happening in other properties the other thing is if you no longer have to actually get a permit to do all the work you want i think that's a problem um and i think we'd be setting a precedent but i mean there's a very awkward conversation for me because i've known dr and this is being for a really you know for however long they've lived in that house that house next door and um it it's a matter of in my mind of how the city wants us to um to work with planning in the future can i just say that if you look back at the picture of the um mirror image house next door you'll see that it has black shutters on its windows these two houses were built at the same time as mirror images so are you saying there's none in the neighborhood but there's some right next door on a house at the same time are you talking about the one on the corner that one yeah right yeah and that one also has a bay window which takes it out of the craftsman style but the porches are what you are i think what you were talking about in um your you know last time you came and the porches were identical but the um the um arbor part over um the porch with those four uh four posts those probably four by four six by six posts or this exactly the same on your house originally i i believe the part where her porch is now now was added on her house her house is much wider than ours well the pictures of her house um the early pictures are are what it looks like now and um there's a picture of your house this is from uh hang on the one in here is from 1970 i didn't have time to to um you know go any further than what i had available on you know on my desk here um but i mean i think that i mean that's the porch has already been changed um your porch has already been changed while you while you and i are conversing could you tell me why uh or not why but how the brick siding was installed so that it can be removed easily it's just some little thin veneer bricks on on end that could be off right off are they mortared on yes they are okay okay thank you and are you uh is it okay if i ask direct questions chairman yes go ahead okay um so jeff the so are you gonna um are you still planning on taking the siding off or are you going to leave it the way it is now i'm going to leave it the way it is now and not take the siding off correct good okay then i don't have as major a complaint about that um if the siding is is not being taken off for more burden um are you going to continue that brick siding all the way around the house or are you only applying that on the front and and the side where the steps are only the front the side with the step is okay okay chair muser this is susie can i interject a comment yes please i i think for the sake of discussion tonight we should stick to only the items that are included in the landmark alteration and figure out how we're gonna how we're gonna discuss or when we're gonna discuss the shutters um they should not be part of the discussion tonight though other than whether they're added as a condition to remove continued for an opportunity for staff to do a proper analysis or removed and then they come back through the process on their own yes i agree um and i'd like to yeah bring the board back to the the resolution at hand and i think the shutters um being applied to the building are something that city planning and code enforcement should look at and deal with and that is something that we don't really need to deal with uh tonight it's it's um it's not actually part of the agenda i know it's it's related but um i think i think we should just focus tonight on um whether we're going to approve or disapprove the landmark alteration as it's written do i have any other comments from board members questions so just a question for clarification i'm sorry if you've already reviewed this but i want to make sure i'm fully understanding it sounds i'm also similar to board member Garrett surprised that we're we're voting on something or proving something that is sort of half constructed so i'm wondering if the applicant can can clearly state like where are they in this um instruction process like which it sounds like the the brick is half completed so just it's i don't know it's sort of an awkward if we don't approve it you have like a half done just it's it's an awkward sequence of events so i'm wondering if you can clarify which pieces of the proposal have been uh installed thus far we have done the brick hardscape with a permit with the permit we were told that if we did the steps and kept a space between the steps in the house that's considered hardscape so since this was taking so long we just we talked to our brick guy and we decided to go that route now there's a space between the house and the bricks the steps they don't touch the house and so that's how we kept going with the brick work we were told we could do the hardscape if it was a landscape feature and that's what we were told so that's why we move forward okay so you can sort of considering it like a separate piece of this and the the pieces that we're looking at haven't been uh started I'm sorry your can you consider your construction like the the the beginning part of the path has already been constructed but that wasn't part of your proposal that you're presenting to us so that's kind of how you made that dividing line between what you would start constructing earlier and what you're waiting for yes yes thank you for clarifying thank you thank you yeah the board questions or comments a board member boron so is the brick going up the wall other than the um than the porch or not no no okay no we're not taking off any sighting okay questions or comments I think for me um I think the process has been unfortunately difficult for everyone but that having been said we are where we are today and the applicant is um basically requesting approval from us for um so specific things that are in the resolution and I think it's unfortunate that things have already been done but that's been done and here we are so I I think for me it's um a matter of whether I can approve um what is being proposed in the resolution and what is being done or um if I can't support it and probably the difficulty that that I have is on one hand seems we all from our last meeting agreed that the brick on the porch was okay it's a removal of the wood porch and to put the brick on the porch would meet our approval but if we put brick on 16 inches up over the siding that that wouldn't meet our approval and you know siding secretary of the interiors you know reasons why that wouldn't meet our well those same reasons would really apply to the porch as well so it's almost kind of like if you if you're going to approve the porch if you're going to support the the porch and change that from wood to brick and it isn't that far of a reach to go from to over to the wall and walking by and looking at the site and looking at that wall and looking at the foundation below that wall which is really very unattractive to tell you the truth I think that that I can especially now that that the applicant is willing to leave the wood behind it so that if it ever wanted to be removed it it could I'm probably going to support the resolution tonight so board member borne oh okay sorry hand up so that's my comments for tonight for any further comments or discussion can I just say that the original wood porch two by six wood we we decided to keep it and not go with the brick porch oh okay but the face of the and and the steps going up to the porch are still going to be brick correct yeah those don't touch the house though the bricks the steps are a landscape feature not not that's what we were told if we keep them a certain distance from the house then their landscape feature and that's the only reason why we went forward because this is taking quite a while and we said okay does this really matter to us can we really preserve the wood behind it if we did that talk to our brick guy so that's why we went forward so we don't want a brick porch and we're not going to take off the siding or cover it or cover it it is what it is okay thank you very much for that clarification welcome okay are we ready to introduce the resolution do we have a a board member who would be willing to introduce the resolution for the applicant tonight okay i have a question okay go ahead i mean my inclination is to vote no because they are definitely changing historic elements um but there are only four of us here so that means it won't pass is that correct that's correct okay so if we can go through this resolution and remove the language like the proposed exterior changes are consistent they're not consistent so i somehow we have to remove the if you i mean if you need my vote we're gonna have to remove that language and can excuse me can i interject we have a quorum we need a simple majority three votes will pass oh okay okay all right i was going by the the old rules you know they keep changing so thank you and also um after the again after the resolution is read and if it receives a second there'll be an opportunity for discussion as well as uh any friendly amendments or changes to the resolution that uh any board members might want to make uh board member boran what i don't understand is you're saying that the stairs these stairs are leading up to the porch but they are not touching the porch correct there's a space there's a space there's vapor barrier and there's a space and and that's considered safe yes all right nobody can follow in the space it's then other questions okay well maybe i'll uh i'll go ahead and get get it rolling out i'll read the resolution if we're ready for that and then okay i think board member garrett has a question i do have a question oh yes the applicants um that is the is there a space where the brick and the the siding at the house meet where you where you've applied that over the um the brick over the uh foundation did you play they the the little six inch bricks inscript are are against the uh concrete foundation concrete but they don't they don't about the siding no they're below it so are they are they actually behind it as well no below it below it but there is a small space there yes okay okay thank you and they're slashing and they're slashing flashing separate society okay okay thank you um actually just for interest almost never is the foundation covered because it's important to leave it so that you can see um the the foundation itself and judge um if there are any issues so if you look at old houses in in the mcdonald neighborhood and probably the other old neighborhoods all the concrete foundation shows but that's just an fyi okay okay comments or questions okay i'm going to introduce the resolution resolution of the cultural heritage board of the city of san rosa approval ammo cooperation permit to one add brick steps from the brick walkway to the porch to replace rotten wood steps from driveway to porch with bricks three add bricks skirt to front of house to cover foundation at porch height four replace existing brick concrete driveway with brick five install brick walkways in front six install small fountain on brick walkway to the front door seven replace existing rotten porch deck with brick eight landscape hardscape brick add a new wooden fence to front yard located at one one two two mcdonald avenue in the mcdonald's assessors partial number one eight zero dash six four zero dash zero five eight file number lma two one dash zero one eight and i waive the for the reading of the text okay we have a second okay vice chair pretzelis seconds okay i think we need to now open up a discussion because it sounds like there are some changes some friendly amendments that probably need to be made to make the resolution more accurate and i'll kind of open that up now anybody has board member borne so my understanding is that the brick covering the original foundation can be removed so that any future so that would be available and visible at any future time is that true and it sounds like that's the case but mr bean if or miss bean if you could comment this on oh sorry the the brick veneer is about three quarters of an inch thick and can easily be popped off okay thank you thank you anyone else okay not seeing any further discussion we have a resolution we have a second and i have a question and this is probably for the planner or for susie um if we write um everything under the so all the proposed exterior changes are consistent with you know that that which i can't find any of them any of these maybe you know see through age as consistent with guidelines for the historic district can we just uh say that we're voting for this because the work has been done and leave all that other um wording off otherwise i think i'm gonna have to vote no and it may not make a difference because there's a form yeah and i and i think um it's a really good point and basically um um the findings that have been identified you know which is basically uh a through h um if you don't agree with those findings then you don't support the resolution i mean that's that's kind of you know um however i will say that you know the reason why we are a board and things aren't you know necessarily black and white there's a little bit of gray and there that we we look at the big picture and we look at everything and then then we make up we make our our you know our choices and we place place our votes so um other comments questions okay recording secretary montoya could you call for a vote please yes thank you um board member boren i will vote yes it's been a very unusual presentation and back and forth but if the work's been the work has been done so i will vote yes okay um board member garret no um vice chair pritzellis hi and chair me sir hi okay so with the uh vote the um the landmark alteration permit uh passes um with three eyes and uh one no okay um um i i would like to um just throw caution out to the applicants that um you know you are in a historic neighborhood and um and by doing these projects and continuing these projects um without you know understanding the ramifications puts you and puts the board in a very difficult position so um you did get approval tonight um i would probably highly recommend that you remove the shutters until you can get a proper approval for that but uh thank you for your time and your patience and uh good luck with our rest of the project thank you very much okay um um if it's okay with the board i'd like to take a 10 minute break before we uh proceed on the last the last two items would that be all right with you uh leah's hummary i was going to suggest the same thing it was almost like you read my mind okay there is a hand vice chair pritzellis did you want to i just wanted to second what uh board member goren said you know i i supported that but i didn't it was an awkward uh uh resolution and i hope that we can avoid that in the future because you know it's not what we're here for and it sets a a bad precedent and i think we should be watchful of that and we need staff support to make sure that that doesn't happen we need to have regular meetings so that people aren't put in a position where something like that happens um because yeah for obvious reasons it's just not not how we should be functioning so um yeah i i want to respond and that there's we have very little control when people do work we are we're having much more regular meetings and we turned this around this particular project around quickly i want to say that when staff receives a code enforcement we look at that work as though it has not been done yet and we consider that throughout our analysis um i don't think we were aware that all the work had been done we also don't do regular site visits we don't have the time to do that but i just wanted to respond to that that it's a very this was very awkward it was awkward for you it was awkward for us as well and um i i don't think any of us are the reason for that awkwardness so i want to thank you all for the discussion and and let you know that you're very much appreciated okay thank you so with that um let's take uh 10 minutes and we'll look forward to board member along coming back and joining us uh for the last two items somebody has not turned their um mute on i just muted the person's board member carrot join us we'll we'll resume i'm so sorry i had to climb over a baby gate to get to you i think we're yeah we're just uh waiting on board member cat okay we're all here okay i'd like to uh resume the uh our cultural heritage board meeting and uh move on to item 8.4 which is Williams residential garage and adu and this is a concept landmark alteration at 212 Benton street lma 22-003 uh continued from the uh may 4th uh 2022 meeting and um our presenting planner is uh Connor McKay so i have bad news for you you're stuck with me again so give me one second here bring up my presentation i'm filling in again for Monet i did speak to the applicant this morning to let him know that um uh that i would be referring to him with questions so here we go share a screen okay so before you this evening is the Williams residential garage and accessory dwelling unit addition um this is a concept design review so there's no decisions being made tonight the applicant is seeking guidance from the board i'm going to say the applicant and staff they're proposing to construct a new garage with an accessory dwelling unit above the garage the student the two-story building would be placed at the front of the property the existing residences as you'll see in um upcoming aerial photos is as constructed at the rear of the property um the required project will require a minor landmark alteration permit and because of the state's adu laws um uh our laws pertaining to accessory dwelling units we can't require any additional excuse me any uh land use entitlements for accessory dwelling units so the accessory dwelling unit is exempt from the landmark alteration which limits the scope of your review to the garage only i'm sorry it limits the scope of staff's review and the zoning administrators review because it's a minor landscape alteration to the garage only which is why staff is also looking for a direction from the board um there here's an aerial view of the site it's uh near the corner of of Benton and Ripley street and here's a closer version of that and as you can see the the primary structure the existing structure is towards the rear or the south side of the parcel here is the the site plan kind of turned at the north side is on the the left of the screen and you can see where the existing structure is and where the proposed garage accessory dwelling unit would be placed right up at the front looks like on the 10 foot set backline and i think i'm another easier to read um so you understand the layout of the site and here are the south and east elevations and the north and the west elevations this is the the site looking you know looking at the property from the street um the the garage structure off to the right of the garage is actually the adjacent property and the the yellow hum in the back is the existing primary that's looking straight down the driveway the uh structure is proposed just to the left of this photograph that's the existing home so uh the applicant and the planning and economic development department are requesting that the cultural heritage board provide comments and direction for the proposed structure and that concludes the present staff's presentation okay i'm i'm not sure that i have to ask for this for concept uh items but um i'll ask for it anyway any ex parte disclosures i know i went by and i looked at the uh the site what else i also looked at the site okay thank you so what um what i'm going to do is i'm going to take um uh down your uh recommendations that you might have for the applicant so that we can put that on record and give both the applicant and staff um that information and um miss marie just you know correct me if i'm wrong but um we won't be taking any action on this project because it is an adu and because of state adu regulations but um we will be in hopes that the applicant um and staff will will take our comments and recommendations uh so that the garage and the adu fit appropriately into the neighborhood am i correct in that you are correct and i'll just add that your your comments will be summarized even though you all may not agree your comments will be summarized and provided to the zoning administrator when action is taken on the project okay thank you very much so at at this point i'd like to just open up to the board members for uh board member borne how big is the house does anyone what are the dimensions of the um the original structure there now i'm gonna ask is is the applicant um oh we have the applicants raising their hands never mind yes i'm here can you hear me hi this is ben williams thank you guys for uh considering our project the house on the property now is 900 square feet uh yeah we're really excited about doing this project uh we've picked some plans in a building design that we feel pretty much exactly matches the current home we're planning on going with color schemes that are exactly like the current house just because we like how it is we love living in a house that's from this era and we uh appreciate the stylings and we obviously want to make sure that we're compliant with everything that the city and you folks would uh require us to be so yeah we're we're happy to be here thank you kind of comes from the board i'll kind of make a couple of comments um it's a very bungalow rich neighborhood that that you're in it's got some some beautiful homes um your site is a beautiful site i guess i can just hope that when you choose when you pick um exterior siding materials that you choose something that either compliments your house or compliments one of the other bungalows in the house um when you choose your roof pitch and uh your eave structure that you can consider you know bungalow styling as as well uh your garage door as well um you can choose a pattern and the design that compliments bungalow architecture and uh and of course windows uh if if you know you can uh stay away from horizontal sliders aluminum vinyl and and go with um double hung or single hung style windows yes i think if you guys take another look at the elevations you'll see that we had the very same considerations we you know obviously want to uh we actually had the plans altered um to be more you know uh in in fitting with the neighborhood uh i definitely agree with you you know we definitely want to go with double hung windows we actually are planning on doing shiplap siding like the house house currently um again our emphasis is that it will be an exact copy of the style of a current home chair chair you're muted uh borough garrett um i i was unable to get by the project itself but um the proposed adu building looks fine to me except you probably don't want to use the exact same siding on it as you have on the house because you want to differentiate the age um of the two buildings um that would be um for the secretary of interiors dive ones so similar but not exactly the same so that could be like a larger shiplap or something along those lines like a slightly bigger board or not an exact match in other words not an exact match slightly bigger slightly smaller just so there's you can differentiate between the historic building and the new building okay yeah and that shouldn't that shouldn't be hard at all no it looks like a really nice job oh thank you thank you i have a question um are most of the homes in the neighborhood single level that's a great question uh no in fact right next door to us there is a two-story house uh it's actually a single story house in the front with a large addition in the back that's uh two stories with a dwelling unit above it and a i believe yoga studio underneath the dimensions of that building are probably about 20 wide and about 30 long and it's two stories and it's about 10 feet from our fence um so that's a factor uh there are also multiple uh in our within probably a two or three block radius multiple projects that have gone on in the last two years that have been very similar to this project although ours would be considerably smaller uh and by that i mean you know in the net in the last two years there's probably been at least three or four garages built above garages with adus built above in our general neighborhood um those properties are not affiliated with the historic district as far as i know but uh to answer your question yeah there are quite a few two-story buildings in the neighborhood um one of the other considerations that we had is this building and the plans really are the roof pitch is supposed to be about 20 feet so the total height of the building is supposed to only be about 20 feet and you know we we're really trying to take into consideration a the uh you know the the comfort of our neighbors we don't want this thing to be a monstrosity in the front yard whatsoever that's why we have a 20 by 20 building i mean that's about the smallest two car garages you can get and about the smallest living space you can get so um again you know we don't want to offend anybody we want to make sure our neighbors are happy with us we want to basically keep our lives happy for the rest of the time that we're in our home which is going to be a while so because i'm like looking on on google maps and it looks like most of the neighborhood is at least that street the immediate street is mostly single level homes that's a that's a valid point there are quite a few houses that are the main residents but there's also quite a few single-story multiple there's lots of those multiple dwelling units that are behind some of the other properties but they're not you know 10 feet away from the sidewalk though right that's true that's true that's a valid point is it possible to do um an ad u you know on one level with the garage or do you have to build it above the garage well we wanted to build above the garage for a variety of reasons mostly that we want to have a yard for our children to play in still as well this isn't going to be an investment property where we you know rent it out or do anything like that we're building this so we can have extra living space my wife and i have two small kids uh and a lot of stuff and two dogs and a 900 square foot house so initially we had a plan to just build a garage and and you know use some storage space but we're not sure sort of how our situation will be with uh meeting more bedrooms in the future and things like that so we eventually went around uh to a website and started looking at plans and found this and we were really excited about it because it seemed that it was just a really great match for our house and um again you know our we do have the 10 foot setback uh but that's why we wanted to go with the building that was wasn't going to be huge we wanted to go with 20 by 20 um and 20 feet tall so we have pretty much the minimal amount of impact in the picture that we had during the plans and you see our neighbor's garage is off to the side we're planning on doing essentially a two-story version of that roughly the same spot so the you know the setbacks from the street there's buildings all over the place um but it looks like most of the street it looks like most of the street is single level homes that are setback like 10 feet it's about that yes okay so i think what we're going to be planning on doing is is essentially doing a double level home but right at 10 feet okay thank you yeah yeah no problem thank you i have a question for susie is that okay okay go ahead uh susie so because this is an adu there's really not much we can do or our comments i mean do they matter even of course they matter um and in fact this is it's one of those conundrums because there's a garage attached to it and the garage is is not exempt from your review so or well it's not exempt from landmark alteration i believe it's a minor so it will not be coming back to the board it'll be going to the zoning administrator so this is a challenging project so we look to you and our professionals for some guidance on this so your comments matter in the sense that you'll guide staff and the direction that you you want us to go but your comments will not be included in the in the decision i mean you won't be making the decision and when i say your comments i should let me correct that when i say your comments won't be corrected or won't be included in the decision and they will likely be in the findings when staff takes it forward that references the cultural heritage board's comments at the meet the concept meeting of you know may 19th or may 18th i guess and and saying like the siding um you know is is different um is differentiated you know pursuant to work in in line with the secretary of the interior standards you'll see you'll find things like that we will defer we will refer to your comments in the findings but it unless it's appealed it won't be coming back to the board so really this is staff looking for direction i i mean i just think it you know building a two-story home alters the character of the neighborhood and that looks like it the project looks like a main home to me well the idea was that it would look like a main home and not just a garage since we had a two-story building essentially we actually had the plan's altered to and i don't know if you can put that back up but the very front elevation does look like a two-story home and that we actually did that on purpose because we didn't want it to look like it was out of place we wanted it to look like our current house or a house that would look like that um if it was on the property originally so um again that was you know we did some things there with with the intention to try and minimize the the impact and that you know i definitely share your concerns we've had talks with our structural engineer about setbacks and things like that and we've checked with you know obviously the because it's 400 square feet the setbacks don't need to be quite as bad as they would be if it was a larger building really what we're planning on here is just the fact that it is going to be small you know it's really just a garage with an upper level it's not going to be a apartment building it's not going to be a giant second residence you know it's a 20 by 20 building so i i don't i i feel like sometimes i go back and forth to be honest about our setbacks but uh i don't other than the actual um style of the building i don't think there's going to be a i i feel like it'll fit in well to be honest but i'm very grateful for you guys to put your input in because i enjoy being a santa rosa and i'm a lifelong santa rosa and i frankly want to do this right and i want to compliment our neighborhood and not take anything away that's really important to me so um so yeah i appreciate everybody's comments as well they're very useful to me board member karat that you had a hand up there yes um could you put that um is it possible to put the site plan back up i mean or the plan with the two buildings on it i'm trying thank you just want to make sure it's okay screen one or can you see the presentation yeah so the building on the right um in front of the what i assume is the house is someone else's building right right that's correct yes that's our neighbor's garage and is there um do you not have enough room um where that red car is to put your garage there while we were worried that it would be impacted by the oak tree and we have a large yard in the front with nothing in it so we decided to essentially put it in that spot again we want to maximize the space we have for our family as well and try and save some of the yard so is is where the fence is is that the neighbor's fence the the hog wire fence yes that's the hard wire fence is our fence so your fence goes um the hog wire fence goes along the driveway so your so it's the property line is right where your fence meets the the building to the to the um corrects what is that yeah absolutely so and and that's your the side of your house that we're looking at with the windows that is the front from the driveway viewing down the street it's a foreign house yeah where's your entry the entryway is through the gate that's to the left of the red car there's another gate right there and that goes back into a small yard where there's the entrance back there oh so the house is behind that wall that fence in front of it yes exactly so you can see yeah that's a much better picture you can see how large uh the the lot in the front is with just nothing on it and you can see the house is next door to us with the high pitch roof and on the right side the uh the giant two-story addition right sort of the middle of it with the solar panels i don't know if you folks can see that so would the garage and the adu unit fit um between your house and the property line on the i guess that's the east no there are uh it's pretty hard to see that but there's like palm trees there and that's uh probably i don't know like a 20 foot space or something like that it wouldn't fit there there's also a pond uh right by the house it's difficult to see what the shadows in that particular picture but those those areas are full of stuff and so the house that the three houses on the west side of the property um those are those are all single story correct uh uh i think the one in the middle has a small loft the other two are single story okay and the right does have double story with the solar panels on it like i said at the where the solar panels are behind or towards benton screw that okay where the mouse is now that is the two-story building with solar panels oh i see yeah and that's looking down into our courtyard uh and into our basically our front door and could you put the the cursor over where the um front door is please on your property right about there uh right about there yeah so just a question why wouldn't you be willing to put your garage further back closer to your house and have a bigger yard space the idea was to have a bigger yard space by putting it closer to the front so behind it we could have a lawn area or a garden area or a spot for the kids to play essentially now that's just uh a rocky it's pea gravel and then the lawn is uh more or less weeds i mean i keep it very i try to keep it neat but you know it's more or less a vacant lot in the front i mean i feel like something's got to be up there you can see the setbacks on the on the house next to us as well me the the one obviously that's a single-story house but the setback you know it's we're all right on the street here uh huh oh thank you you're very welcome thank you guys the other comments or recommendations board i would think that if it were if this building were moved back closer to the house um with more distance you know maybe where the um the second story portion of the house to the east is um it might be more in keeping um i don't know how tall those single-story buildings are are they do they have high ceilings are they i mean i'm sorry i didn't drive by there so um uh yeah our home is definitely the shortest as far as one-story homes go in the neighborhood the pitch on a lot of the other roofs uh around here is in a lot more um and you know since we have this picture pulled up to you can look at the we were mentioning the pitch of the roof you know earlier and how we don't really want it to be this towering building and you can see all the way to the right how we have our exact 20-foot elevation from uh floor to the tip of the roof so again you know our our emphasis was more of a building that was less imposing on the street we really just kind of wanted to do everything we wanted to have a building that could be a garage an accessory drawing unit for us or the kids if they're older or an aging parent um we wanted to have a uh uh as much of our yard for our kids as we could and we also wanted to um have a building that fit in with the style of our neighborhood we wanted to make everybody um we wanted to get something that was going to add value Susie your email's up here so is the door the front door that the oops yeah into the garage is that a functioning door yes it will be and the garage doors are on the west side facing your neighbors right so when you drive down your driveway you make a turn to the left turn into the driveway or turn into the garage correct to a left hmm okay thank you you're very welcome thanks any additional comments questions board yeah board member borne yeah it's a really unusual situation and i think what you i think you've accomplished something very um that that it's you know it still has the charming effect of the neighborhood so it probably took a lot of twisting and turning to get this so that you could have everything you need so i hope it works out for you thank you very much my wife and i have uh talked about it immensely okay thank borne borne other comments okay well i'm going to bring this then to um a summary of what i've heard and and please if we need to add additional things that i missed um jump in and get it so um what basically i heard was that the applicant should try to use a different siding so that it um differentiates itself from the original structure on the property there is um interest in uh it being a single level instead of two story of that it would that the neighborhood is predominantly single story and that being up at the front of the property that single story would probably fit into the neighborhood better than two story and i also heard that consider moving it back closer to the house to especially if it's two story to kind of eliminate that that two-story presence right on on the street and um and then my comments of uh that the garage door windows light fixtures um general style of the house should complement bungalow style construction to fit in with the neighborhood did i miss anything any other comments we can give roof you say something about roof pitch too i thought i heard that yeah maybe i did yeah and and roof pitch yeah okay um you know i didn't open up any public comment for this um miss murray did do i need to do that i think we need to open up public comment for all items so if there's anybody there that wants to comment okay just want to tell you if if um we can open up public comment absolutely um if you would like to make a public comment on this item please reach your hand now um and if you are calling in please press star nine okay and i'm not seeing any hands at this time okay we'll close public comment okay well i think that um concludes this item thank you um mr. wimps for taking the time and and hearing our concerns and hearing our recommendations um look forward to seeing your progress and thank you all very much for your time and consideration i appreciate it greatly thank you okay moving on then to item uh 8.5 we're in the same neck of the woods um this would be the cambel roof replacement concept another concept review at 408 bentham street uh lma 22-005 um and uh background here's concept review for roof replacement the applicant is seeking guidance from the cultural heritage board for two alternatives the request for the cultural heritage board to provide comments and direction for the concept review item is exempt from sequa because there is no possibility that the action will have an effect on environment and uh our project planner is miss murray and i believe there's been some updates to this project that maybe miss murray you can go ahead and just fill us in uh first um on those and the project i you know i was going to share my screen if that's all right and i i promise to address those updates in my in my um presentation if that's right sounds good okay so again yes this is a another concept item we're looking for direction um from the board so this was originally scheduled on may 4th so for those of you that may have looked at it back then um there were there were three options and the the applicant the property owner um lacy as lacy campbell has um since then been in touch with another roofer so as we go through the the concept review is for um considering two options originally she was going she thought she would have to change the pitch of her roof in order to use the asphalt shingles since then she's learned with a new contractor who's willing to guarantee the work for the life of of the roof 30 or 50 years i'm not sure i'll defer to her on that but um uh that they can install the asphalt shingles with the roof pitch that's there now so the applicant has has changed her her um her options to consider um to retain the existing pitch in both situations and asphalt shingle has actually moved into her first place it was second place before because it would have required her to uh modify the pitch of her roof um price wise those two options were the same she just preferred to keep her her roof pitch lower with the metal roof now she has the option of doing either finishing material asphalt shingles or metal panels um and keep the same pitch the reason that the staff recommended that this item come before the board is because the zoning code um directs us that if somebody wants to change their roof or replace their roof which all of us go through that every now and again um that if they um if they replace it in kind with the original materials that staff can approve it and that's it's exempt we can approve it over the counter what the zoning code doesn't do is direct us on what to do with with the roof with when they're changing materials so because roofs are are you know i mean they're above the eye level um especially this lower pitch roof um we're we're looking to you for direction and taking her through the minor conditional or landmark alteration permit process and piggybacking it on um another project that she or probably the same project but the rest of the project which is all behind your house and is all minor landmark alteration work so um we're confident with reviewing that on the minor landmark alteration level but we need some guidance um on the the roof so her site it's also yes down the street from the last one it's on Benton Street this one is closer to the corner of Glen Street and Benton here's a picture of the front of her home um this this uh slide well I guess it's not completely outdated the standing seam would still last 50 years asphalt shingle has a life of 15 to 50 years and tar and gravel 18 to 20 years um the existing uh I my next note the existing tar and gravel roof also serves as a neighborhood cat box and and the roofer confirmed that in his letter when he went up and and looked at the condition of the roof I believe also that with the um the roofer can I'm gonna I'm gonna ask uh Ms Campbell to to just confirm this after I'm done that I believe that the roofer said he can preserve the existing downspouts and there's there's something old about them so so with that that's a nice short presentation that concludes the options and again contrary to what was in staff's memo which should have been updated we are looking at either the same pitch with either shingle or metal roof and looking to you for direction okay thank you Ms Murray um comments from the board uh Vice Chair Prasalis a question um and do you know kind of in the neighborhood are there other homes that have the standing seam metal or the asphalt shingle or is it primarily the similar roof that she has currently is there a precedent for this change in the in the neighborhood I will say that the roofs in the neighborhood are predominantly asphalt shingle and there I think I saw a metal roof down the road but that's not a real common roof for the the historic neighborhoods that I'm aware of I uh I walked the the neighborhood up and down and um the tar and gravel roofs are um becoming kind of far and and few between um there I think there were this house and maybe one other most of the other houses have been uh converted to asphalt shingles um and the fact that the applicant is willing to not change the roof pitch which I think would just totally destroy the look of that historic house because it's a really cute house um that um and I guess I also have to say I have a house with a similar pitch that at one time had tar and gravel it now has asphalt on it as as well it's it's probably a pretty common go to I do have and I'll talk later but I do have some recommendation today applicant should they choose to go with the asphalt I really would not support the metal roof I think the metal roof would be completely out of character with the building but I think asphalt with proper color um and texture um would would blend in fine with the neighborhood um board member Garrett um I concur the tar and gravel roof is traditional on that style house and historically that was they all had tar and gravel roofs um the asphalt roof would be the more appropriate choice of the two the standing scene metal roof is way too contemporary for an historic district so I would definitely cover the asphalt and probably in a gray to to make it similar to the color of the tar and gravel I mean it is harder than the historic district for our comments um I drove by the property as well um and I think that I would also vote with going with the asphalt shingle I think the metal roof would um be not in character with the neighborhood do that comments okay I just um I'd like to point out to the applicant that going from the roof that they have now that roof was designed with lips around the edge that actually collected the water and then the uh it had a kind of a scubber action that where the drains came through the eaves and and down and in changing to an asphalt roof make sure your roofer you know addresses that um it might require some carpentry work to eliminate that lip um that the asphalt uh I mean that the uh the other process had um the other thing is because of the pitch and with shingles um really use an underlayment to use a an ice or a fire and ice underlayment it's done a adhesive roll that would go over your roof and seal it up with the shingles going over the top and then the other the last thing is the flashing because it is such a low pitch your roofer really needs to pay attention to the flashing and go the extra mile on all on all the flashing uh so that you don't have don't have leaks and I see the applicant has their hand up so I'm going to defer to them uh yes thank you guys I appreciate this time um and I was going to address that the roofer that I recently spoke to uh gave me the kind of the how-to of how he would do this with a underlayment that was essentially a waterproof barrier that would run through all of that and would maintain the same gutter system and downspout abilities by uh using that layman underlayment as part of a gutter um that is as you know is is kind of inset to the roof so that would all maintain the same historical look um which is what I was hoping to keep was the same look um without the cats on the roof was really my preference so um I appreciate the the suggestions and I'll take that back to my roofer so thank you guys I appreciate it thank you that yeah you'll you'll find the the under the underlayment is fantastic stuff and with the protection of the asphalt shingle over the top of it you'll have an excellent roofing system um other recommendations or comments from the board okay saying none I'll just kind of summarize it sounds like the board is is unanimously in favor of asphalt and and then considering a a color that complements um the house as well as maybe uh complements the original uh tar and gravel uh style roof we capture that we got it thank you okay well thank you very much um miss cambell for taking the time to come to our board for listen to us and um I think with that we did you want to do public comment for this item I'm sorry say that again miss montaya did you want to hold a public comment period for this item oh yes thank you very much um let's go ahead and open up public comment okay if you would like to comment on this item please raise your hand and if you are calling attendee please press star nine to raise your hand okay and I've seen no hand okay we'll close public comment okay I want to thank all the board members for a long evening and uh it was kind of a tough board meeting at times but I appreciate everybody's valued input and uh look forward to our next one and with that I will close the cultural heritage for tonight thank you thank you everybody good night board bye