 Commercial buildings help business owners to trade and make sure that we have places to go shop, to go eat, and to basically enjoy our lives. This is the Private Property Podcast. My name is Tumi. Let's unpack. My guest tonight is Wendy Gianni, who is a portfolio manager at Abril Property Management. We're going to be talking a little bit more how if you are a property investor, you can keep your commercial property investment in top condition. So hope you stay with us throughout the conversation tonight as we talk. Wendy, good evening and thank you so much for joining us. Good evening. Hi everybody, how are you doing? Good, thank you. And hopefully everybody at home is doing well. Send us those green hearts in the comment section and let us know how your day has been. And if you are looking forward to the conversation we are about to have tonight. So Wendy, jumping straight into the conversation tonight, tell me more about your experience in the commercial property management space. How has that been for you? And are they different categories? Is it different in terms of industries when you're working with these commercial properties? Okay, so I've been in the property game for approximately 13 to 14 years now. I started at the bottom, basically as a lease administrator and I've grown to arrive where I'm sitting now, which is a property portfolio manager at Abril Property Management, where I manage the jewel of the crown, which is Hartford Office Park based in Waterfall. In terms of the experience, I have grown substantially because I've been exposed to leasing as well as ops management and understanding the different aspects of it. Prior to Abril, I worked for GHI where I was working under Fortress, which was an industrial portfolio. And believe it or not, in as much as I love my heels, I had to wear safety shoes and a safety hat. So I worked on an industrial portfolio as well. I've dabbled a bit in terms of retail. I've worked on approximately two retail centers, not for a very long time, just a few months. My strengths are definitely in both commercial and industrial. Sure, and tell me about if one wants to start a career in property management or even commercial property, whether it's residential actually or property, what can they do? Where do they go to study? What kind of courses do they study? And if maybe someone is already working, what can they divert? Can they come into the space? Just talk us through that a little bit. Okay, so you've got actually three options. I know Pretoria offers a degree in property management. VITS offers one as well. If you've got prior experience, right? They do a different degree, suppose accounting, for example. They offer you RPL, which is through the support system. So they recognize what you studied, okay? And they would obviously exempt you from certain parts of that course. And then you would go through what they call log books, et cetera, and finish that. And then you would be recognized as a fully-fledged property practitioner. Nice. And some of the challenges, let's talk those, because we know everything that Rosie has done here and there. Let's talk about the challenges that you've experienced and encountered in your journey. And they also might not be something that's really peculiar to you. Maybe they're just some of those challenges that are in the industry. What are some of those challenges that you could just take us through tonight? Okay, so look, in terms of property management, I always tell people that it's actually more people management. A property is a building that's sitting. You can manage a building. The challenges is always maintaining a balance between your landlord, as well as your tenants, your suppliers, your shareholders. And always, as a property portfolio manager, you're always the ham in the sandwich, okay? So I would say that's a particular challenge. But it is something that I do enjoy, simply because I'm somebody that loves interacting with people. That's been my biggest strengths as well, building relationships in terms of not only just your tenants as clients, but your suppliers as well as your different shareholders. Sure. I would say, yeah, pretty much that's it. Sure, and let's talk about the tools and techniques. I mean, you're saying this is one of the things that you enjoy. So I'm sure there are some tools and techniques you employ in order to make you successful, because I mean, you've been here for 13 years, and I'm sure you'll still be in the game for even longer than that. So let's talk about some of the tools and techniques you've employed and how someone out there who's watching us today can benefit from employing the same. So look, I would say firstly, the most important thing is having the correct technology. So you've got different variants of that. You've got MDA, you've got NECO, you've got support, you've got Oracle. There's several different property management tools that you can utilize, okay? But other than that, I think the most important people is having the right team, the right structure, the right support. I'll give you an example. At April, I've been there for about 14 months now. I can't live without my ops manager. He's like my right-hand man, you know. If we need to get done the trenches we do, as well as my property administrator. So having a team that understands your drive has the same passion, you know, and the desire to obviously meet expectations both landlord-wise and tenant-wise, that's the most important thing. When you have a team like that, then you won't fail at all. So that is, I would say skill set. And your best technical tool. Yeah, and you speak about technology and that's one of my next questions in terms of, you know, technology is only great when it works and so many people are scared of it because they feel that it will take away the human element and it will take away people's jobs because everything is getting automated and things are going online. What is your feeling around using these technological advances now? Are you saying this is the way to go if someone is a portfolio manager out there you're saying definitely get it and do you think it will make some jobs extend? I think it is definitely the way to go. I do not think it'll make jobs extend. I think it'll make our lives easier to be quite frank with you. Currently at Abril, we are going through that process where we are automating a lot of our reports, okay, through the system that we use there. It is not an intention to eliminate, let's say per se, the job of a property administrator but it is maybe to basically say to edify, to get more accurate and correct reports. When I say that it will definitely not eliminate jobs, what I mean is that what we need to do as a people in South Africa and as students out there then focus on careers that then drive that prop take. So as opposed to going to study something that's becoming extinct now, rather go study technology, which would then allow you to drive the different technical systems in every property organization no matter what role you play. So I wouldn't say that it would limit or make things extinct. Yeah, I wouldn't say that. Definitely. Let's talk now in the South African context in terms of the places in South Africa that you've seen in terms of location and geographical location. Which are the places that you have been seeing as a trend that they are coming up or are phasing out? What are some of those geographical trends that you are seeing in terms of commercial property? Well, I'm definitely gonna say waterfall because it's what I live and breathe right now. But to generalize, I would say how-ting. It's always been the goal, the jewel of South Africa. It remains that. So how ting will always be an investment opportunity in my opinion. Sure. And a question that I had is we see a lot of retailers coming up and I remember you just spoke about how you've dabbled a little bit in the retail space but we see a lot of them come up in different areas in Johannesburg in the suburbs. You see a lot of new retailers coming up. Do you think this is a new investment opportunity that an investor should start looking at? Or is it something that's, it's a trend that's coming in? So firstly, you need to ask yourself the question, why are you investing? Okay, so I would say if my asset manager was here, I would default the question automatically to him because he's more in a position to say, okay, this is the best place for you to go and place your money in, in terms of investment. I would say, yes, retail definitely because we've seen what's happened with COVID where we've literally moved away from a life where we work and we go to work and we go home. It's more hybrid and we work from home. So you do get retailers popping up. Where they're popping up, you're more than welcome to share with me. Whether those are good investment opportunities or not, that is something I would say I would default to an asset manager or a banker to say, okay, let's do the exercise, let's do the research. Sure, and let's not talk about how your highlights rather in your journey, because I want us to start running off our conversation tonight to say, with your highlights and what advice would you give, right, based on the highlights? To somebody who's sitting at home tonight that was like, I'm looking at Wendy and I wanna be like her. You have to be willing to put in the work. You have to be willing to start from the ground no matter what degree you have. So if you walk in and you say, I'm now the lease administrator and I say, you need to punch papers for me for the rest of the month. That's it, you need to start from the bottom. You need to put in the work. Most of all, you need to learn to understand your shareholders, your clients, their objectives, their intentions in terms of the properties that they've invested in. That's what I would say. So I would encourage you to learn your tenants. I would encourage you to learn your shareholders, what their intentions are, what they see in the future 25 years from now. What is their vision? Once you know and you understand that, you're driven towards that and you work towards that. So no matter where you start, whether it's making a cup of tea or making copies for a whole month, you understand the vision and you're willing to be a part of the vision or the team. So I'm willing to be a part of the vision in terms of Aboriginal property management where I am right now because of the exposure I've had in the 14 months that I've been there. So that's what I would say. And your highlight? Highlight. Going to a management meeting whilst I was in labor. So this is rather personal. My daughter's four years, but I drove to a management meeting and then I drove to the hospital and I was in labor. But because property is such a tough industry, it's made me tougher. So I think the highlight for me is I've come from being an absolutely sheltered child and being weak to being an absolutely driven, tough person, and I will do it no matter what. That's my highlight. Cool. Then that's a very high highlight, hey? And that's a very high highlight. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate you taking up the time. Not a problem. I'm sure people at home have received so much great insights in terms of commercial property and actually becoming a portfolio manager in its entirety because portfolios can vary from residential and commercial. Thank you so much for sharing that evening with us. Not a problem. It's a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, guys. And thank you as well to getting to this part of the show where we say goodbye. Thank you so much for tuning in and do tune in again tomorrow. Same time, same place right here on the Private Property Podcast. Also ensure that you follow us on all social media platforms to make sure that you never get to miss a beat. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a good night.