 Thank you everyone for tuning in to Straight Talk Vermont Show. I'm Bruce Wilson, Executive Director of Service Render Incorporated and Straight Talk Vermont is a program, one of our programs. We have many, and I'd like to start off saying that we'd like for individuals to check out our art so wonderful gallery in the University of Mall, and we're also building an art so wonderful studio in a city place Berlin tomorrow to help individuals who want to do, who just want to come out and do art, and we're going to provide that for them. We have a space there around 1,000 square feet, and we're going to help them wherever their needs are. Our space in the University Mall is over 5,000 square feet. Incredible art from individuals from around the state. You know, we sell their art, you know, and I really appreciate my art director, Alondra Dilekouesta. She's a curator, an art director. She's an incredible person. I couldn't do this work without her, and we have all the art in there because of her and people who want to be a part of it. And I just want to say something. I think we're not better than no one because it's the first time we did art galleries. We usually have the youth centers, chillout centers, living rooms, Loft 89 and Fairhaven. Across the state we had open youth centers in the malls. But this is my first time, but I think that we're, because we want to work, and what we do is help people with their goals, dreams, aspirations, that our art gallery, we don't charge you nothing to put your art up, and then we only take 30%. So you get 70% of your art, and the youth that have art in there, they get 80% of their art. So we're very happy about how I was going. We had it for like two years now, and it's going well. We had some situation with the COVID, which probably everyone had. Can't say it was a bad thing, but it seemed like it, because a lot of people died, but my degree in psychology, so I got to go, what's good, be objective of John's judgment. But today, we have our incredible guest, Oliver Max Tracy, Burlington City Council President. Oh man, how important is that, how important that job is. I know a lot of you have heard of Burlington City Council. You might have presented there. You've seen some, you saw Max there, and here with the issues, their goals and issues, they have a lot of things they go, well God, I've been through some of the meetings there, probably more or less on youth agenda items and output development, developments, because some of my advisory board members are developers. But it's a long, it's a long day at City Council. Max, thank you for coming on straight talk for my show. Thank you so much, really appreciate you having me. Oh man, I really appreciate you coming on to tell that our audience know exactly what, you know, what you're the President and what Burlington City Council, what, you know, well let's start off with, how did you get involved with this? What do you mean, what's your, what's your meaning, your short end of your viral, you know? Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I came to Vermont in 2005 to go to UVM and while at the university, I got heavily involved in activism and politics. That was one of the things that drew me to this area and just the human scale of those things, you know, being from Chicago, you know that it's tough, it can be tough to get involved there unless you're into like the kind of machine politics kind of things and so I really appreciated what I saw as sort of the more human scale of Vermont politics and the ability to get involved. And so came to Vermont to study and got involved with some of the student movements that were taking place at the time focused on labor issues up at the UVM campus, namely around getting livable wages for all campus workers and sort of along the same time frame I was also working pretty closely with Vermont Progressive Party and, you know, I was very attracted by the idea of having a more pluralistic political system by a party that didn't take any corporate money and just, you know, some of the key issues that the progressives have focused on over the years, things like single-payer health care, you know, not supporting the ongoing, you know, and continuous military industrial complex, just a number of those types of things. So I got involved with some working on some some campaigns with the progressives as well. So when I graduated from UVM, I ended up running in 2010, losing, staying involved, getting on boards and commissions, and then eventually running again in 2012, at which point I won that election and I've been on the council ever since. You lost the first one then you won in 2012. Yeah, and so I've been on since since 2000 on the city council since 2012 representing this ward where we are now Ward 2 right in the heart of the old north end. So it's been it's been absolutely incredible, just a true honor to be on the council and get to serve the community in this way. Well, Max, I'm telling you, man, first of all, you know, I like, you know, I like the goals and the trail that you blaze for yourself. And I'm coming to Vermont, you know, you know, it's kind of weird. Well, we love Vermont. It was a lake in the mountain, you know, everything about Vermont, you know, but I'm coming from Chicago, as you said, you know, I mean, it's like so much, it's a gigantic place, you know, so much different than Vermont. But, you know, just to come here, as I came here in 89, and I'm, of course, you bring me home. I was young, I told the story to artists many times. And I love the lakes and the mountains, you know, and I still I go back home to see my family, you know, as often as I can, because I still love I still love the skyscrapers and, you know, Lake Michigan. I love the millennium. I mean, the yeah, what's the name of the millennium park, the beam. Yeah, all that stuff. Navy Pier. And, you know, I like, you know, the loop uptown, new town. Magnificent, all those incredible architectural designs. And it feels just like a, like a trivium building, they call it. Oh, incredible, right? Yeah, you definitely miss those things. I definitely miss those, certainly the family and those things. But, you know, I think, yeah, I love the, just love the smaller scale that we got going on here and the ability to connect with the community. Yep. And I just want to say one thing I miss the most about Chicago is that the Art Institute, the Museum of Science and History, the Museum of Natural History, the Aquarium. Brookfield and Lincoln Park Zoo, I mean, yeah, the culture is amazing. I know, man, it's so cool, you know, I miss those the most. But when I go home, I try to go there, you know, check out some things that that I loved when my folks used to take me to when I was a kid. But so this the the student liveable wages, that's what you was trying to build at UVM. One of the things you try to do was student liveable wages. And how important is that? Now, where you want to take over the buildings? Yeah. Oh, yeah. William, where's the buildings? What's the? We took over the the the the President's wing. When that was that was what's the name of it now? That's a waterman. Waterman. Waterman. The President's wing and the Waterman building. So I was part of that that takeover. I was there watching you guys. The last successful takeover. Yeah. And then we had to sit in outside of it and all that. You actually took that place over to you guys. We had all kinds of different actions that we did is to put to bring pressure on them to raise the wages for folks. And, you know, the battle continues to this day, you know, with staff having just successfully organized a union for the first time. I think they saw that, you know, they needed they needed the real real protection that comes with with with organizing a union. And so they were able to successfully do that. And then you also see, you know, student movements continuing sort of I see, you know, picking up that call around the wages. You know, maybe a little bit of a different form in the sense that, you know, they're trying to get Sodexo off their campus. And Sodexo has been sort of one of the the employers that has not paid those wages for years and years and it has a bad track record. Yeah, I know Chef that's worked here on the campus. Yeah, you know, the workers are great. The workers are awesome. Yeah, it's the company that's the issue really. And I think those workers should get paid more because they're working so hard in order to make, you know, make sure that the students have good food to eat. So that's always been been been something that you know, I've cared about since I got here because I always saw, you know, those those rank and vile workers up on the campus, you know, really making a daily impact on students' lives. No doubt about it. Yes, it does get paid enough to live in a very, you know, in an area where it can be really challenging to find, you know, affordable housing and things like that. And so, you know, I think that that's something that we need to really that they needed that the university really needs to continue to address. So let's talk about affordable housing and livable wages, which you you really fight hard for, for people who look like me, people covered by park. You want you really won't like, you know, listen, people who look like me need to have housing, live wages, and we need to help them with, you know, get to get some houses. I mean, get some, you know, make sure they have like you discussing this a minute ago, livable wages. That is so important. I appreciate that you, you know, that's one of your platforms, you know, it is your incredible platform that before like Black Lives Matter and, you know, all these incredible events that people color going through and going through and has, you know, that we created, you know, so, you know, when I learned that about you that work, I'm like, wow, he's doing this before me, all this hype about Black Lives Matters and everything about, you know, people of color and BIPOC, you know, and you were there on, you know, boots on the ground helping people to get housing and livable wages and be represented in places where like that they might normally might not normally might be represented on. And so, you know, I appreciate that about you. You know, I mean, as a person of color, you know, you know, who wouldn't, who wouldn't, you know what I'm saying? So thank you, thank you very much for, let that still continue to be your platform and work with people who look like me to get better, better and learn ways how they can get housing and livable wages and, you know, a lot of ground grassroots things that they can get involved with that they don't even know about, because I'm telling you something, I've been around since 1989, and I'll tell you something that I know for a fact that every time I've been going to meetings with all kind of credible people, you know, leaders in the state, and I'm probably like the only one that's in the room, me and I look over 300 people over there, there's a black person over there, there's a person of color over there, there's a, you know, right there are 300 people, you know, come on, man. Come on, man. You know, I know we like was 0.1% of African Americans or whatever, you know, it's more than that now, but now it's more than that now, you know what I'm saying? I think it's still the second-witest state in the country. I mean, I think that still though, I think what you're saying is very true, which is that even that being the case that we still see a disproportionately white, you know, sort of, you know, political sort of scene, you know, in a lot of ways just across the state. And so I think that that's that's certainly a piece of this, you know, I think the other piece that I was taking from what you were saying is also that, you know, while there is this and necessary focus on the criminal justice system, and specifically on policing and making real progress on the systemically racist policing systems that we have in place and have developed and are still, you know, unfortunately, some are still really resistant to changing. You know, I think that that you can see that, you know, that the fear that gets mobilized on that really is, you know, is unfortunate and is part of this, this effort to really kind of take those things down. But at the same time, you know, I think that that is also mobilized to really focus a lot of attention on that one particular issue when the issue is much more broad, you know, there's questions around economic and social inclusion and progress that, you know, we're quite frankly not making nearly enough progress on, you know, thinking about like on the housing front, you know, we see a rate of black home ownership that is pathetic. You know, some people will say, oh, I'm shocked, you know, that there are essentially like seven black home black owned homes or properties in, you know, in Burlington. I mean, it's it's the number. Some people say they're shocked, but but that's that's not that shouldn't be shocking to us. You know, we have a systemically racist system that has been developed over many years to create those outcomes. It shouldn't come as a shock to us that those are the outcomes of this system. What, you know, what should be surprising to us is that, you know, we, we, you know, we just haven't been able to make nearly enough progress on those things. Yeah, well, I think, um, um, for all of us, you know, I sit on a Vermont State Police, very much policing. I hope I said it right. When you see as I sit on a school district anti-racism committee, I sit on a governance level with the anti-racial committee. We help on common alliance. And years ago, we helped change the data collection. And now on the back of tickets, you people have a race in the cities or who you are or whatever on it. And so we made some, we just distanced here in Vermont on these issues. But I still, but, but, um, it's not still clear. It's not, it's not, it's not working, to be honest with you. But, you know, if any of those boys that, that, that, um, that's out there, I probably was on there on somebody. I have some opinion. I had something out there. Yeah, you're, you're involved in this so, so, so deep in wine. So, so, um, just equity, diversity and inclusion. You know, it's hard that everybody's got like a equity and inclusion person in the city, in their cities now, probably because of Floyd or Black Lives Matter. And, um, so why do you think, why do you think that everybody's like, you know, why do you think anybody's on board, like not everybody, but a lot of people, like, when I used to look at TV and you talk about Black Lives Matter, it was more like more white people out there than black people. So, you know, I think that, that, um, they, um, Canada and young, young people, and, um, and I think they, I personally think that they, um, um, understand the plight of, you know, they, you know, the plight of, um, people, African-Americans or people of color based on that, um, they, we're never in their history books. You know, we, we, they didn't know nothing about us. You know, another thing too is that, um, we didn't live right, we don't live next door to you. We don't go to church with you. We don't go to grocery store with you. We don't, so, um, so you really don't know us. And how you know us is by stereotypical ways. You know, it's from, um, someone on TV, in magazines you read, oh, look at those black people. They live in, look at their neighborhoods. They out there, look at them looting the right, the stores. You know, you know, white people just do the same thing, you know what I mean? Hey, they probably do more than, or the same. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, they do much more. But they, um, they put that against us. So, you might hear Oprah Winfrey or somebody saying, you know, somebody, some black person makes some achievements somewhere down, I mean, Mike, you do hear from her. Um, so, so just as equity, diversity, inclusion, and equity, and inclusion is, uh, they have started the cities, cities around the country. It's hard. It's no office that have equity and inclusion, you know, directors. And I bet it isn't, yeah, nowhere it is. I bet everybody have one. Somebody, and so, you know, you know, you know, I bet everybody have one, somebody, and so, um, for me, I think that's a good thing to, to do to have somebody equity and inclusion. But, you know, you really, I, I, you know, I, I want, I want to know a person. So, I, I guess, I really never heard nobody, um, majoring in equity and inclusion or justice equity and, I really, I don't think that, I don't, I never heard nobody get an degree in that. So, so I think that, that, um, for me, you know, um, you know, in, in one of my shows I had on here, I'm just going to back up for a minute for, because I got to watch what I say. Is that I had, um, um, Taisha on the show. Oh, great. I had, um, Yasmin. From, um, Wunuski. Oh, cool. Equity, these are all equity, well, Taisha's more, she's, she'll put you straight. I'm racial, you know, in the inclusion. And, uh, Erin McGuire from Essence, she works in the school district. Very cool. Um, with students around equity and inclusion. Nice. And so I had them on the show just right here where they, you know, they talked about a lot of incredible things that, um, that, um, they did doing in the community and this thing and the other. And so, by me being, um, when I was, when I was growing up, um, in Chicago, I was part of the Civil Rights Movement. I'm, like, Jesse Jackson and Jackie Jack and Harold Mill, you know, came to my house and I was part of Operation Push, Operation Batch, SCLC, or really all that from years, you know, before. So when I came to Vermont, um, I had all this instill. I mean, my folks used to bring me up here. And my mother, I told her one year I was going to move here because I was looking at, um, um, the most discovery channel. And they were talking about Vermont. You know, Unity and Freedom Underground Railroad went through here. Um, they did slavery, you know, which is, you know, I think they did have slavery for a long time. Right, I mean, that picture is more complicated than I think many Vermonters would like to believe in the sense that, you know, slavery was outlawed but then existed in many forms well beyond that actual constitutional document. But that's what made me come here. One of the main reasons came up to um, I can't take her name now and the family who lives in Charlotte have that. The Clemens family family? I mean, I see her son. He was at the African First Latin in, um, and he was talking and, um, I never met her. It was funny how I was, somebody asked me about why I came here and I was telling a story about that and I'm, we need to meet that lady, Ms. Clemens. You know what I mean? I said, I still haven't met her. And they said, she just left and I'm like, oh no. So I got to, I sent her some emails and I, I'm going to talk to her because when I come up for the kid, as a kid, my first move is to go to her store, Africa Authentica. That's what was her, her store named after that woman. I was like, wow, there's a black lady in there. She got her place called Africa Authentica. When she import, you know, stuff, masks, those kinds of things. Yeah, I'm like, wow. You know what I'm saying? And they put it on the screen. So I'm like, yeah, I'm coming soon. And so, um, I'm going to tell you a story that I tell all the time. Not all the time, but when I can. I like to tell it. I told my mother, she told me when I told her I was coming, she said, you're going to make a difference out there. And I thought because it was a white state in America, when I came here, 89. And then, um, and, um, I was in a civil rights movement. I thought that's kind of what she meant. But, you know, I, you know, I already knew I was going to make a difference. But, um, because of who I am, you know, I was raised, I was raised. But, um, um, so one year my mother said, mama, mama, I made a difference. I made a difference. She said, what'd you do? What'd you do? She probably thought I created, like, rocket fuel. So I said, I said, this is a second white state. She said, boy, I told you I was going to make a difference. Yeah, so I didn't make it. So one vote do count, you know what I mean. So, um, so I, so I made a difference. I mean, I do a lot of things. I'm a community organizer. I work on a new service provider. I, you know, like you said, I do a lot of things, you know, I'm on, you know, um, Democratic Chairman in select three, like, a month ago, and sitting on a lot of different things, and then formerly a commissioner in, um, when you ski. And, um, I was on board works for one year for parks and rinks and blah, blah, blah. A lot of stuff, you know, I did, you know, and still do, you know. But, um, so, um, so those type of things that I did, well, in Burlington, first, first and foremost, when I first moved to Maple Street. And, um, you know, is that, um, one thing, my goals was work with youth, you know what I mean, youth service provider. That was my, my, that's what I'm the best at is a community organizer, working with youth and, um, families and community. I'm the best at that. You know, I don't think I'm better than nothing, but that. Somebody want me to help them organize something. People do. A lot of cities, and the county asked me to help them pull the, like, I did something for the National Night Out. We did the Out and About event, we did doing things, you know. So, you know. Yeah, Juneteenth was spectacular in Burlington. Yeah, I know, it was there. It was amazing. He was hanging out, you know. You know, it was good to see him there. Just in the park over here all day, it was great. For food, incredible performances. Lots of learning, taking place. It was incredible. Wow, so I can't wait till next year. That's the first experience. You know, what's going to happen in the coming years? I think it's going to only grow and only get better. Well, I think that, um, I know Tahitia has something to do with that and Yasmine has something to do with Munozki and Ousimapuku has something to do with it. Oh, yeah, it was a huge effort. She planned that in essence. And so, um, they're only going to get better because I think the outcome measurements were saying that, you know, we need to do that. We used to think about better location and, you know, I think I don't know what you can do better in growing here. They had like many sites that they was running to. And, um, and, um, Munozki, they did this road read. They had like, um, Myra Flann perform and Craig Richard. It was, it was cool. I was at all three because, you know, I got to be there to represent people who look like me. But, um, so, Max, let's talk about, um, City Council You guys got a lot of objectives with genders on me. Good Lord. You look at your agenda and like, you know, it's like when you guys meet, um, you met Monday. Yep, we met this past Monday. So we had a number of different things on the agenda. Everything from, um, the, uh, from, uh, the downtown tax increment financing district to, um, some zoning changes to, uh, a resolution having to do with the Sears Lane encampment and the future of, of that site, um, going forward. Um, that was kind of the primary item that we discussed on, on that day. Um, the progressive caucus's feeling is that, you know, we should really continue to try and create an effective management strategy for that site and that, um, we need to make sure that, you know, that, that people weren't just getting kicked out that they were actually, um, being placed in a situation where they had secure housing. Uh, if that was their choice, recognizing that, you know, we're, we're, we're wanting to stay on the site and to try and hopefully find a management strategy that would work for that. And so, um, that was the, the, the resolution that was brought, um, to, to the council on Monday. So that was seen pretty short, but you hear a lot of stuff. You know, you guys always say it's like for, you be like, I don't know how you can, you know, well, it's probably a job, you know, make sure things get, get, be right in, you know, let's say everybody what they got to say from the people who you serve. So, I'm the best at that. I could never do none of this work without, you know, like, like, um, listen to you or, you know, you're a constituent and mayor and people like you want to work, I do. I don't, I don't, or you find work with or community people. And I tell stories that Tony Lam told me was, I don't know if he was a lawyer. He's a mediation lawyer years and years ago. He said, I was telling a story about me going to a Bailey Howell library at UVM to find out a law, he's a lawyer, he was a lawyer, to find out a law answer. And so I was telling him, like, when I went to this, and I'm talking to Tony, I went to Bailey Howell, I was talking to the rest of them. Can you tell me what the law books are? And she said, the black law books are around the corner. I'm thinking, you know, here's my psychologist, okay, I'll be objecting. I said, excuse me? She said, the black law books are around the corner, like a puppy, you know, to tell what they were like, sure enough, the name of the law books is black law books. And Tony was like, he didn't, he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, what's, you know, he was like, what's up, what's the story? Keep going with the story. And so, when I found out the answer, I thought I found the answer, and it took me like over an hour to find an answer that I was looking for, I went to present the answer. And when Nate told me that Bruce, that's not the answer. I'm ready to flip the table over and like, yeah, that's the answer. You know, somebody probably forgot to put the amendment in the book. You know, so I'm telling Tony. So you saw like an outdated book or something like that? Yeah, so Tony told me, Bruce, Bruce, all you do is get an answer in five minutes. So after that, you know what I'm saying, I learned from the people who knows. And so, you know, if you, I don't want you, if we have the program that we have, it's a peer-a-peer, you know, as you know, we'll talk about you from Boston in a few minutes. But I always tell them, if you need some answers from a doctor, lawyer, Indian chief, we know them all. We're going to take you right to them. We're going to talk to the president of the, in which we do, you work with our youth on creating, revising a resolution for you from Boston. We'll talk about it in a minute. And so, so that's how I'm the best at that. I have like, I always I get like 900 PhDs because I know the people who knows the answer. I don't try to know the answer myself about why, why, what are, you know what I mean. And you know the answer. Tony Lamb taught me that. So it just makes more sense. And that's why I tell these kids, that's why we know so many people. Because I go right to the people who knows the answer for these youth. And they get them right where they want to be at, you know what I mean. So, so let's talk about a little bit, you know, that, you know, you ran for mayor. Yeah, I had a debt. Wow, that was a good one. You know, if people saw me go for you, you know, I said, oh, I live in Birmingham, you know, like, because the people I work with, you know, was on your team, Brian, and all those cool people who were telling me to support you or boot you around. Yeah. And I did, they supported you. I mean, I couldn't vote for you, but I did support you. Because I thought that, you know, Monroe was my friend for years. I thought your, you know, I thought your objectives and you, like I said, all the things I just said about you, you know, where people color and try and want them to have a housing and be a part of us, get them involved in the things that they probably normally not involved in, you know what I mean, like, like, you know, like city council, jobs, little ways to get them on the equity and inclusion, you know, things that your platform way before is, like, so popular for now. So that was the reason where it's like, you know, that's why I support you in the best ways I could. I mean, you know, I really don't want to hear nobody say those things, you know, other mayors or candidate Americans really say those things, like you said, you know, like you said. And I think a lot of people didn't hear those things from other candidates, like you said either. And so that's why you probably, you lost by what, two votes or something. Not quite that close, but it was still close. And I think the thing though about it though is that, you know, having support, you know, from so many folks across the community, like yourself, you know, you really, at least I really felt that. And so, you know, people are like, oh, I'm so sorry you lost all this. And yeah, of course it's disappointing, but the reality is that I just feel incredibly grateful from all the support that I got from members of the community. Just, it was just absolutely incredible to feel that support from people, you know, just to see people stepping up continuously. You know, I feel nothing but gratitude for the opportunity that I had to be on that race. And just the support that people brought to the table was just absolutely incredible. So I can't say anything about the effort for sure. I think that, you know, if that had not been the case, maybe I'd feel differently. But because it was, I mean, I can't say that I have, you know, a bitter taste in my mouth by any means. You know, I love my role, you know, one has a personal friend, you know, where Stacey, Gleedland, I know them forever. You know, I know those girls growing up. But that's on the personal side, on the business side. I have some, you know, my own objectives about some things. But, so Mark, this is what I'm trying to say is that you gotta run again, bro. I don't know about that, but we'll see. We'll see, we'll see. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see it. You know, I think there's there's a long time between then and now. And so, you know, we'll see. Oh, it's over two years. So, so I'm, well, he's got he's got three year term now. Three year term, yes. It's a while. It's a while, yeah. He's like, we need three years, you know. Peter was like, Peter who else? Oh, right. Yeah, because it used to be two-year terms, and then Peter got to shift it over. And I can see that for sure. I mean, I think that a council term that's only two years is pretty short itself, in and of itself. Yeah, so you definitely have to, well, it's all up to you and your family, whoever, you know, what you want to do, but I'll see. So, I mean, what could be your next step as the President of the City, as the Burlington City Council? What could be your next step? I mean, where you would say, forget it? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I really like serving on the council. It's been, you know, like I said, just such an honor to be able to serve my community in this way and to get to work with so many different people. You know, I really enjoy that. And I try not to put too much stock into, you know, being too kind of coming up by just trying to focus on the task at hand right now. I don't really know what the next steps are in this, and I think part of that's also grounded in the fact that you just never know what's going to come up for you in your life. And so I just, you know, try and take it one step at a time and kind of see where it is. But, you know, for right now I'm really enjoying being on the council. No, not about it. I mean, you know, you're doing a great job, you know. And so what is a city council president? What do you do? What's your job? What the hell do you do? So it's a little bit different than being a regular city councilor because, you know, a city councilor just, you know, serving on the body, they're on committees and they're doing that work at that level as well. There's a variety of different standing committees that you serve on. And that's really where, you know, a good bit of your time can get focused. It can really take up a lot of your time and energy as a councilor to do that committee work. But when you're the council president, you don't serve on committees. For the most part, sometimes you'll fill in a little bit. But your role really becomes to put together the meeting. So in terms of getting all the different requests for the agenda, getting the agenda set in a way that's manageable and putting that together. And then the other piece is also running the meeting itself. So you get the agenda, get that out, and then you got to run the meeting itself and facilitate the meeting. And then there's all kinds of other things that come along with it. You know, like just managing different processes that happen over the course of the year. So that's kind of the role. It is certainly different than being just a councilor. You take a step back. The other piece is also that's different is that, you know, you're running the full council. You're running the full council meetings. You're really moderating. You're not, like, arguing the points and really entering into the debate. You're just kind of helping the debate to take place. So why did they choose you? Did it be the president or anything? Well, I mean, by the time, when we got to the place of, you know, of having the votes to do that, you know, I felt like it was a new challenge for me, something different. I had been on the council for eight years and so I felt like, you know, I had done committee work for a long time. I had never done the council president role. I wanted to challenge to have that challenge of running the meetings and shifting kind of my approach to my engagement within that body to this more facilitator kind of role and in that also just trying to help other counselors with getting their stuff, you know, getting new counselors situated. Those types of things. So I wanted to just do something different within it because, you know, after eight years of doing the counselor, the straight counselor role, it was nice to have the opportunity to do something a little bit different. So is the city council like on the board of directors for the mayor? I mean, like, you know, you guys in charge, is that how I work? Can you, like, impeach the mayor? No, we don't actually have an impeachment article in the charter and we're kind of, you know, there's, you know, we have kind of a two two different branches of city government. They're in many ways co-equal. There are some powers that are given to the mayor that the council just doesn't have or can't override. But in many cases, you know, you need both to be working together for city government to work effectively and a lot of the big choices require both, you know, approval and both the mayor and the council to move forward. And so you moved out about it. Yeah, they definitely, you know, the mayor always needs your approval to move forward. Like he says, a few things that he I don't think he can approve like planning his zoning and nothing like that. Nope, can't change zoning. He can't, you know, appoint department heads himself. He can't the budget, you know, he has to get the budget approved by the full city council. So there's, you know, there's a number of important functions that he has to work closely with the council on. But as a mayor, a Democrat? Oh, progress. I don't wish to stand this. So he's a Democrat? He's Democrat. So how many Democrats on the council? So there's four Democrats on the council. There's six progressives on the council. And then there's two independents. Councilors Barlow and Jiang are both independents and then you have the Democrats are counselors, Mason, Carpenter, Paul and Shannon. So what about Ding? Is he a, he's must be a Democrat, huh? No, he's an independent. He was a fusion candidate, meaning a Democrat and progressive, but then he's since shifted to being an independent in recent years. Well, I'll tell you something. One of the things that I'm, my executive team about is that if you're going to be, if you're a progressive or liberal, we love you all, but you know, you can't ride on, we're not going to let you ride on a Democratic, you know, be a progressive and a Democrat. You know, we think that's not, you know, you got to call one or the other, you know, I think that's fair. I mean, you know, you just can't, you know, then all of a sudden, when it comes down to economics and then say liberals get the funding or whatever, you know, if that's what you are, then in democracies, we just left on the street and a lot of those guys and, you know, all of our team is guys, but they feel the same way they've been there, way longer than me, you know what I'm saying? They feel the same way about that. We need to really straighten out, you know, you got to say, you know, Democrat. You know, I can see both ways. You know, I think there are people who feel, you know, a connection to both and I can understand that. I know for me personally that I'm in that same position of just being a straight progressive and not really feeling, you know, that sort of need to sort of have the fusion. I think part of that comes from the very unique political culture of Burlington, which there are some very clear differences between Democrats and progressives specifically in the Burlington context. You know, at the same time, you know, I look at Winooski and I see that you have representatives like Taylor Small, who are a fusion representative who's doing great work and is really a trailblazer herself and so, you know, I don't really, I'm not going to hold it against Taylor because she's got a D next to her name as well as a P. You know, I think that Taylor's work really speaks for itself and so, you know, I understand that. You know, I know Taylor. She's such a cool person. She's awesome. You know, I met her with one of our events we put her on for the case around and she introduced me to that, you know, and it's good to know that she was from Winooski. So, I'm not knocking, I don't know, but I like everybody. I like everybody. I see what you're saying. It's a theoretical thing. It's not about a personal thing, it's a theoretical thing but the theory behind what you're saying there is that there are some real differences between the two parties and, you know, when you try and meld them what do you what do you really say? What's the statement there? So, it's complicated for sure. Yeah. It's easy for me as a new Democratic chairman for Winooski. It's going to be easy for me because, you know, when we're going to start raising funds for Democrats and working with state-level Democrat you know, chairman vice presidents, I mean, 80s and things like that. And so, I'm coming up because I'm just newly elected but so now, so it's going to everybody's liking my objectives and what I'm saying and what my team is saying about, definitely about money, you know, fundraising because, you know, I want my team to be able to go to the U.S.A. to learn about what other Democrats are doing actually talk about some I've learned some more objectives for us you know, let's go broaden our horizon and what that does and I'm probably preaching to the choir is if they go meet with people in Washington or wherever they go, you know what I mean, guess what? These two Winooski are going to be recognized and guess what happens? Economists come to town people want to build stuff here open up businesses kids want to, you know, come to Vermont for school you know what I'm saying, Mike Shepplain and that's what happens it happens that way. So like I was saying Max, I want to thank you for, man, you know help us write that, you know, believe it in new phone boards. You know, Brian Pine and Karen and Hanson of course, yeah the resolution the revised resolution about getting new phone boards I mean getting new phone boards as well as creating more boards and committees to consider and even some voting rights because like for me my organization she created in 2003 you know, we with the help of city council and everybody but you know it wouldn't happen without you guys but you know, I promote new phone boards around the state, I care what board like we have new phone boards on and you know we want new phone, new boards and every board that there is a board you should be on it and that's my objective and that's what we're going to be doing and that's what we've been doing and that's what we're going to continue to do but for you to step out, you know, like you are the president of the city council and he helped us in brand was part of the 2000 he helped us in 2003 when we first actually we have new phone boards city council and he was like hell yeah, you know and so you come right in you know like hell yeah you know I mean let's work together and revise this resolution and get it right and make sure everybody's supporting we had, I don't know, I don't know I think we had five or six because I think you know there's broad agreement that there's real value like you're saying to having youth on these boards and just providing input and getting involved in it you know I think we're going to be trying to see how this really revived effort goes and learn from that and continue to modify it and make sure that we're able to get the most value out of it for not only the youth themselves but also for the boards as well you raise the question of you know Burlington voter to actually vote on it on these commissions so you know there might be a need to change the charter in the future to allow for the youth members to be able to vote but I think that the key is that we're trying to just really make sure that we're involving youth in decision making you know and giving you the chance to really learn about their civic their sort of civic structures and engage with those structures in a more active way because sometimes it can be challenging to know how to get involved where to get involved and then even if you do to really you know have a seat at the table and so this is really saying you know you're going to have a seat at the table you're going to be able to participate and one of the things that I like that you all brought to the table in terms of the resolution itself that I thought was really good was that this idea of having a mentor on the board who's currently serving on the board to work directly with any youth members to sort of show them the ropes of how the board works and just some of the issues that are at play before that board so I think that that was one really good addition to the to the board structure and so are you I have you know I created youth on board for my organization around the state you know you know all of Chitty County you know we had high school weeks and even Fairhaven you know we had youth on board and so we don't call them we don't say you're my mentee everybody's a mentor in our organization everybody's a mentor because if you can't learn from that youth then we don't want you know you need to go we need to take you to some classes or something because if you can't learn from a youth man you know like and like let me tell you something like people like you know like we're part of youth service providers network coalitions and permanent health and one I'll tell you one year we had Shannon who was our youth board president in Rutland County and we got the Rutland youth advisory you know and they will go over all the executive directors and myself will go over go over what they did you know what was going on in their organization with the youth piece that they they direct and so so we're sitting there and I brought Shannon and one thing to anybody will tell you with the youth agenda items on it I'm always going to bring you you know I brought tons of youth here many years in city council here because to talk about what their goal street and aspiration was and you know it's important anybody will tell you that I'm always going to have youth with me if it's about a youth agenda if a youth on the agenda item but anyway so we was in Rutland advisory at some youth advisory committee and all the directors talked about all the fun things and things they were doing they were reporting out right all the cool things they do you know when one lady one of the directors said well we had we had a dance we had 50 kids there I thought how wonderful was that it was incredible we had 50 kids there at an event where there was no drugs and I called the Bakkel having a healthy outlet having a great time you know and then they said Bruce Bruce we know you had a dance too you know we had we had a youth center down on like 4,000 square feet and so and then they said how'd it go and we had it in the mall not in the space because it was and so Shannon I said Shannon you know first of all Shannon you know and they say and then Shannon said they said how did your dance go Shannon and she said oh man she said she said I knew I was going to have to you know tell me not to say something I said so I was just quiet listen to because I was laughing at the dance laughing at them during the dance how what they was feeling about the dance and so she said yeah I told my rest of my youth for a bit and said that we weren't going to show our face in town no more and that it was a flop you know they say it was a flop we couldn't show our face in town no more they didn't go well she said no it didn't go well she said well how many kids came she said 185 they said 185 that's that's a lot of that's incredible and she said well how was it a flop she said because we used to get over 300 kids there see because we use a peer-to-peer model and they and and a lot of not a lot of executive directors don't they they planted themselves they said oh use purple and how about the streamers and bring in the you know the dogs and cats you know you know and I don't we don't do that we like my job is to get the building get the permits get the security get this insurance you know that's my job their job is to bring in their peers you know and that's what they that's their job but anyway so so so I've been telling those you know we have we go to like my people which name that person that that nice restaurant up here with a capital is capital Plaza that nice little restaurant there we go there for coalition meetings and I've been telling them for years man that you need a youth advisory board not me I love all those people because they represent whoever they represent and a lot of them say that they can't get high school kids on their own on their board you know and I'm like for me it's because they need a youth advisory board they help them get their own damn kids I don't tell them I don't tell my youth board to to um you know they they find their own people that's what they're supposed to do you know and that's why it's easy for us to get you from boards and you from in part of something because on our own youth boards are people who are part of our organization go go bring bring your sister your boyfriend because all of them when they come and be a part of our programs that we actually educate around drugs and alcohol and tobacco opiate effects you know things like that guess what that's very important so we bring in 30 people you want to because guess what you know because everybody around youth advisory boards got to go to these meetings about drugs and alcohol tobacco and guess what if nobody else come but the uh are you four members guess what just 30 30 kids in our an event getting education about drugs and alcohol tobacco you know we don't we don't care you know nothing we don't care about um we don't care so you know so the more we have on our advisory board you know for my organization the better it is you know we can have a dance party and damn stuff and nobody you know all the people they invite they don't have to come so so that's so that's that's a lesson and I was telling people at the coalition meetings years ago I stopped going to them personally but um because you know they don't have youth they don't have well they all I love I love them all because they all they work with the no I really do because they work of course yeah we know we they work with youth and they work with you mostly they say they can't get high so we know they work with elementary middle school kids you know we know they work with them so we need them to work with them we need them to work with everybody they can work with 50 kids 10 kids we need them to work with them and so I'm not knocking nobody but but I think for me my objective personal objective are you need a youth advisory board to help you decide on the things that they want to do in life come on yeah and that's what we were trying to get at with this resolution on the boards and commissions for sure let me just tell you one thing about um um like this you know like like adults and say I've been there done that right yeah you've been there done that yeah kind of theory because guess what if you were back in caveman days if you were um if you drink a bottle of vodka guess what you're gonna get drunk everybody feel the thing and you drink once a day you're probably gonna get drunk but the thing is how did you learn about drinking it you know so now it's like social media it's like great goose making loose you know I mean you know it's all these ways these youth are learning how to drink and smoking risky behaviors it's not how we I know it's not how it's not how you learn maybe it's definitely shifted that's what I'm trying to say so so when adults say that they've been there done that they haven't they haven't yeah you don't understand yeah they don't get it they can make decisions for these youth without you know without um accident so that's so you got me on that one right that's something that for years yeah for sure it's for real it's for real instead they um what it's social media stuff that youth um know that you and I don't have no clue on maybe stuff that they need to tell me about stuff that I don't know names and nothing about it but so Max so we probably got like two minutes or whatever um man I really appreciate you coming on the show I appreciate you help create the youth on we're gonna move forward you know I I got a new person that work on his name is Evelina Zerka she's uh from Bronson technical um very cool she's awesome she's my intern she's paid the intern for it does that's incredible I know man she's like you know she's so like you know she's like gone home she's like so excited to be that's great you know yeah she's definitely boost on the ground and uh so you will get to meet her could I could I told you you will get to meet her you know I told her that she will get to meet you you know you know see that's another thing too here's a youth on my work who say I said guess what you gonna you gonna get to work not only meet the president of Bronson but work with him how would you think they're worth in their worth is why do you feel their worth isn't when they hear something like that you know man that's gigantic for those youth you know man it builds and it builds their self-esteem yeah absolutely that's the other piece of this the youth on board's piece for sure right so yeah so what do you got anything you got anything you want to say no we cut out of here no I appreciate it no thanks I really appreciate it's been great to great conversation really appreciate it yes I appreciate it look forward to keep working with you in the the other incredible youth that work with your organization thank you so much so yeah thanks everybody for tuning in to straight talk for Macho and Bruce Wilson is Max Tracy Bronson city council president