 Hi, yes. Oh great Nice to meet you Audrey. My name is Jason Hey And I'm I have to say that I have done Some research about you in preparation for today and I am a fan. So I apologize if I seem a little crazy because I am so Enamored by your work and what you do. So I'm honored to be chatting with you today Really happy to be chatting with you as well and far as I understand this is a pre-recording. So if there's any Like a thing we need to rerecord. I'm happy to do so Thank you for your cooperation. I know that you're very busy. So we're happy that you gave us some time today And we're really happy to be doing this Before we start, let me make sure everything is okay on our side I'll be in the danger of this come on. I didn't touch the danger of this guy Okay, nice to meet you. My name is Mackey. Very nice meeting you I'm for today Excellent. So I think we're ready to start Let me give you just kind of a run-through as to how the interview will go so that you know, what's happening This is a family show geared towards family But mostly for for young children for children So as you're answering it might be the best if you keep your answers simple and kind of poor kids So children's children friendly as far as the depth of the answers goes We have about nine questions first that I'm pulling just quick questions So it's a quick question and we would like just quick answers is whatever you think they're mostly fun And then there's a few questions that we want to spend some more time on After those so to the quick questions first we have about 10 minutes for those and then the rest of time I want to give you time to Answer the questions as directly and as thoroughly as possible Okay Okay, just want to make sure the local crew is okay They're fixing the cameras so just a second Well, you look fantastic so you can be you can be rest assured that you look amazing, okay Take taking your words for it So I follow you on Instagram and Twitter, and I'm just so I Love what you're doing, and I love following and I love your insights and you're you're very articulate and you're very Compassionate and so I I really am so happy that I get to chat with you today Yeah, they're fixing the cameras. There's three of them one by one. So I think We're about to start we're about to start. Okay. That's awesome Okay, so because this is a broadcast in Japan We have to really focus on making sure that our answers and our words are easy words and easy to understand for a Japanese second language audience So here we go start with the quick questions Number one When do you feel happiness the most I? Feel happiness whenever I connect to Someone that I didn't know before and have so much to learn with one another such as this very interview Excellent. Thank you So you're very smart, and you know a lot of things What is your weak point is there anything that you are not good at I? cannot feel a lot of rage or Hatred or a vengeful feeling because of my heart condition when I was a child I cannot get very excited either positively or negatively Okay Number three What one item would you take with you if you were going to be on a deserted island alone for one week? I will take a hibernation pod Currently under research that can put me to sleep for seven days excellent, okay What? Ability not held by humans. Are you most jealous? I do not have any such jealousy abilities for other biological beings I appreciate them having this ability, but do not want it for myself Okay, excellent If you were to meet an alien What are some of the wonderful things about earth you would want to show them? I would show us biodiversity The various different marine and land species that earth has in its ecosystem great Okay, so on your tablet There's a circle and a triangle and a square Which shape? Which shape do you like best? I like best this shape which is three-dimensional and can fit through the three different shapes that you just mentioned Okay, why is that? Because this is a cylinder that has been cut on both axis So in this side it can fit through a triangle hole on that side It's a spherical hole and on this side. It's a square Excellent If time travel were possible What era would you like to visit? I would like to visit the here and now which is the year 2021 in our interview Maybe maybe this is time travel and you did come back to this moment. Excellent It took me 39 years to get here to talk with you. I feel honored. All right What would you do on your last night on earth before your departure to Mars? I will get a full night's sleep at least eight hours Excellent So what is your core essence if we were to take everything away from you What would be the last thing that would remain? Nothing will remain Why do you say that? Because each and every word that I speak including this interview I publish to the creative commons or in the public domain so that anyone can take it to any direction I relinquish the copyrights of everything that I do. So there's nothing that I remain in control of Okay How about your your values, which was the last one that you think would remain I think it's not my values. There are existing values such as sustainability and inclusion That I reached to when I was a child and will pass on to future generations I'm merely a vehicle of these values. It's not mine Excellent. Thank you Okay, so this is These are the quick questions Now my team is going to see if there's anything we want to come back to and ask a little bit more So just one moment, please. Sure. I understand we didn't take 10 minutes You you're an excellent interviewer excellent interviewer Uh I Okay Okay, okay Oh, okay, okay, okay So you said that okay, we're ready So you said that to feel connected to someone is when you feel the most happiness. Why is that? because the universe isn't just one perspective As myself, I can only witness the world from one perspective But connected with you. I can look through your eyes to a fresh perspective and that always makes me very happy so for you You feel happiness when you're able to look through someone else's eyes and see their universe That's right. And this is what I refer to as taking all the signs Taking all the signs sides excellent like taking your side and their side So the ability to see others perspectives and other opinions is happiness for yourself. Yes That's that's amazing. I really like that Um, you had said that your weak point your weak point was the inability to feel rage Or to to get angry about something Do you think that's a bad thing? sometimes uh to get people focused on a social injustice Some sort of feeling of outrage may be productive so that people can think together about how to prevent something like that from happening again So the the the empathy the feeling of the same feeling Having the same feeling as people around you whether that's good or bad is actually Something that you feel you're not good at So if you feel happiness I share the happiness very easily if you worry about something I can also worry about the same thing with you But if you are very vengeful or if you feel a lot of hatred towards specific people or groups of people I cannot easily sympathize with that feeling and it's one of my weaknesses I see So you're able to empathize with the positive side But when it gets negative or emotional in a negative way, it's difficult for you to Share that feeling. I don't know worrying is also sometimes casted as negative So this is not about positive or negative But rather about my heartbeat for you see with my heart condition when I was a very young child The doctor said if my heartbeat Goes up Like many heart beats per minute Then there's no sufficient oxygen in my brain and I will faint And so this is more about excitedness or upsetness rather than negative or positive I couldn't feel a lot of joy as a young child either So the extremes For you was what was difficult. That's exactly right. And when I become an adult and The surgeons repaired my heart condition. I sought the very positive extreme feelings Actually going to disney land and so on as a adult So I know the feeling of extreme joy, but I still don't know the feeling of extreme negative feelings excellent excellent So you had said that there's no abilities by Animals or other Beings that you were jealous of their abilities of Um Why is that? I think that's because If they are evolved to have that ability Then I appreciate and make sure that there's sufficient biodiversity for these abilities to pass on To the next generations, but if I take it For myself, then I don't think it's actually respecting the evolutionary path That these biological beings Initially had in the first place. So I will work with them, but I will not essentially take it for myself So the ability to fly or the ability to swim underwater for a long time You respect as that creature's ability and you don't wish that for yourself but wish to Harmonize with that creature. That's exactly right to learn from that creature maybe But it's not my innate ability as a homo sapiens as a human being Maybe we can for example, learn how to make Airplanes that flies like eagles and so on, but it's not my personal ability excellent excellent again, so So easy to understand and your your thought process is so Interesting for me, and I'm so happy to learn. Um Let me make sure that this is all we have for the quick questions before we move on to the other ones I do Okay, okay two more So you had said that if you were if time travel was available, you would fly to Here and now to this interview in 2021 Are you not interested in the past or seeing what the past is like or what the future will be like? I have been to the past. I traveled all the way from the year 1981 to here Are you interested in seeing what was Well, we do have of course already Plenty of documentaries and histories and so on in that era So I already can see the histories on the other hand if I do travel back there Then it runs the risk of me actually interacting and disrupting history as we know it And so I've watched the movie tenet. It's probably not the best idea I see how about the future? Well, uh, we are now moving into the future One second per second. So I'm happy that we will explore the future together It's not me traveling to the future without you So together we'll go together. Yes, the entire planet will go to the future together excellent So you had said that on your last day on earth before departure for mars You would get eight hours of sleep. Mm-hmm How much do you usually sleep eight hours? So in preparation for mars, you would do what you can to keep the same schedule That's exactly right because when I am indeed on mars, maybe after a few months of hibernation Mars will have a very different time schedule as compared to earth So while I am on earth, I make sure that I still operate in earth's schedule And then when you go to mars, you will adjust to mars schedule Of course, mars will have a different time of hour of the day Excellent. Excellent. So interesting Okay, so we're going to switch gears a little bit and we're going to move into the other questions there are I believe there are seven questions and I want to give you About five to seven minutes per question. So, um, I'll probably come in with some follow-up questions during your answer But I want you to feel free to Really give us the full Answer give us as much information and I can tell us as much as you want to as you can about each question All right, the first question here we go As an adult looking back Were there any comics or animation series that influenced you as you were growing up I'm influenced by the japanese animation series The ghost in the shell the neon genesis ivangelion And as a younger child Doraemon And these still are with me as a older adult I really enjoyed for example the animation Inside out from pixar and just a few days ago I watched souls from the same studio and they are also with me Because in inside out I think there is a really good portrayal of the modern understanding of emotions That is to say as a very young child Of course each and every one of us tend to feel one dominant feeling at a time But the thing about growing up as portrayed in the movie is that one can recolor Existing memories so that it becomes a hybrid feeling For example, if I feel a little bit upset It's a tendency for me to mix some different teas together and drink it so that this Joy is mixed with Upsetness or if I really worry about something I will listen to a new music a new combination of music again connecting sadness to hopeful feelings I think all these are very important in the modern day because the social media on many platforms Tend to spread a kind of message that evoke one dominant feeling More often than not outrage and so having the ability to Essentially look at one's own emotional repertoire and not be over dominated by any particular emotion I think is what we call emotional intelligence Around here and is one of the core things portrayed in the movie Inside out, I mean as for the earlier comics like Doraemon It informed my understanding of AI and is indeed why I call AI assistive intelligence For Doraemon even though much more powerful than other children in the comic book Nevertheless offered the various options for the technology to work with the society But Doraemon never in Terminator style Changed in a very disruptive way Existing societies and the children after trying out those assistive technologies Sometimes conclude that it does more harm than good actually most of the time And then what we are seeing actually is only the Things that are simple easy to understand easy to explain and easy to adapt remain as staples in Doraemon such as well the personal helicopter for flying around but other than these They don't tend to disrupt the society that much and that's what I believe about AI in the present era as well So you said a few interesting things inside our head the emotions inside our head Something that I thought was really interesting about that movie was that The gender of each of the emotions For the main character for the girl the gender of some of the emotions were different And then when there was the part in the movie where there were showing the The voices for other people the women had all women Voices and the men had all men but the main character Inside her there were a couple of boys and there were a couple of girls and I thought that was so interesting What do you think about that? Yeah, I think gender expressions Is what many adults feel that in order to express certain emotions one have to conform to certain stereo types On the other hand as you have just pointed out in the movie There's really nothing inherent about any particular emotional expression that need to feed particular gender stereotypes So I think the movie is brilliant in pointing out that gender stereotyping is actually orthogonal or unrelated To the emotional expressions. You can be very boyish or girlish But you can also try different expressions for Sometime of your emotions based on your interaction pattern with the environment or based on the person you're talking to I agree. I agree And you also you also talked about Doraemon And his experience and you said ai which mostly people associate with Artificial intelligence that you said it was assistive intelligence Why do you think that Doraemon was assistive intelligence? Well, certainly we can see Doraemon respects What's the best interest for the children that Doraemon interacts with instead of taking over their life's agenda Doraemon is there to help them to fulfill their life's agenda And this is what we call value alignment Just like my eyeglass here helps me to see better because I want to see better if the Eyeglass here instead show a pop-up advertisement that I have to count to 10 to close Then it's aligned to the advertisers and not to my best interest The other thing is that the Doraemon gives a full account of how exactly the different technologies work In the society and if it's not aligned then Doraemon is happy to Change that or even to take it back as we see in many episodes in the comics And that shows the accountability of technology providers If my eyeglass is broken, I can fix it myself or I can take it to a nearby repair shop I'm not bound by any contract or something to keep wearing the eyeglass even when I don't want to Excellent. So uh, you you mentioned a couple of specific things in Doraemon about the Take Copta And different episodes. Was there any episodes of Doraemon that you remember now? Any specific episodes? I remember many episodes and also movie lengths Explorations like back to the Jurassic era Exploration with the dinosaurs and so on and I enjoy all of them very much What's what's your favorite Doraemon episode? I don't have one I think I understand the Doraemon setting in a more holistic way So it's less about focusing on specific episode But about the particular ways that Doraemon interacts with the society around it Yeah, Doraemon. He's been around for a long time and I think that he's a staple in Japan I I want to try Doko demo door How about you? What are Doraemon's tricks? Do you want to try? So of course, I um enjoy the same food the same dessert that Doraemon enjoys But I don't know the Japanese word for it in Mandarin. We call it Tong Luo Shao What what what kind of dessert is that? Let me look at the Japanese word There's a Doraemon movie actually just came out recently. I think here in Japan. Yeah, so the dessert is called Dora Yaki It's the same prefix as Doraemon Ah Dora Yaki Yeah, I enjoy Dora Yaki very much Dora Yaki, how about drinks? Drinks. Well, I usually drink tea as I just mentioned This I think is green tea, but I also sometimes drink bubble tea Bubble tea and green tea. Excellent So we saw that you actually dressed up as Doraemon once yes, and uh, it's very popular I did this And uh being authentic didn't show my fingers in the film So why did you decide to dress up as Doraemon? Because uh, it is a recruitment film actually for uh, young adults Who just graduated from undergrad to serve as what we call the digital transformation ambassadors Who can go to the small and medium enterprises and the social Entrepreneurs and help them to digitally transform and show Ambassadorship meaning that they bring these digital thinking Into existing social configurations. So the idea is that one would inspire them to serve as kind of like Doraemon to the local communities Excellent, that's a great way to show interest So Doraemon is a Japanese anime Do you think that there is a reason why Doraemon came out of Japan culture? I think in japan each and every Spirit can be imbued in everyday objects in mountains in rivers and so on So there is this white acceptance of ordinary things taking sort of a life of its own And interact with the human society It's less likely to imagine that in other like more monotheistic Cultures where this idea of spirits around us is less prevalent in taiwan We are also very much believing that each small hill each stone For example can also be a spirit. So we relate more easily with the Doraemon worldview Excellent. Thank you Okay, next question that was excellent. Thank you next question in in 20 years What do you think the most aspired job of children will be In the future. So now the most aspired job among Japanese kids is like They want to be an idol. They want to be a game creator or a youtuber or an artist What do you think those aspired jobs will be in 20 years? I think the most aspired job will be what we refer to here as a slash So people could be a youtuber slash Artist slash game creator Slash, maybe digital minister And so on So the point is not in any particular job But in the ability to fuse between multiple jobs together I think what we are witnessing now is that's the barrier between the different siloed Disciplines every kind of tasks and jobs in the society is being blurred and people are looking for other people who can connect in a cross-discipline Transcultural way across different silos and different places and so on and to figure out something together across existing job definitions and so Today, we still see many people think of the education Or the career ladder as a linear thing But more and more people are doing zig zags across different sectors because all the important problems facing our society such as climate change or tackling the pandemic and infodemic and so on Cannot be solved by one discipline alone All the different disciplines need to work together and people who can visit easily Throughout those disciplines who can translate the insight from epidemiology to the media studies To politics to poetics and so on these are will be the most aspired to job Not only 20 years down the road, but also you can start preparing now So you think that the combination and the connection of different genres and different abilities is actually what going to be people's What people will bring will be aspiring to in the future and connecting and zigzagging between disciplines and Fields is what's going to actually be Aspirational jobs in the future. Yes currently when children aspire to particular jobs It's like looking to the sky and identifying with one constellation or the next What I was referring to is zigzagging choosing the stars that are more aligned with your direction and forming your own constellation Excellent, so you believe in the future. It won't be one job. It'll be I can do three jobs And I'm a slash b slash c. That's exactly the point. Yes So what do you think society will be like in 20 years? I think people will not be defined by particular majors that they graduated with They will not be defined by one full-time job that I hold They will not define each other in terms of easy to apply labels or even stereotypical roles in the society rather people will connect to other people with similar values And each and every one of us hold a complex set of values that if communicated well enough We can always find commonalities despite our different positions so that we can innovate to solve large structural issues together with common values So rather than connecting through skills, you're connecting with values with shared values. Yes shared values Why do you think that's important or the society in the future? Because as a society we're now more and more understanding the repercussions of our actions And most of the problem that we face for example a warming planet None of us can solve it by ourselves So if we do not form partnerships in a planetary scale None of the truly major problems could be solved individually or just by people in one discipline So that is not just a good to have it's a must-have configuration for the society So in your opinion you believe that Problems like climate change you just said will be solved not only by scientists but by people of all disciplines working together artists and poets and scientists and teachers and People working in in technology It would be a Combined effort that will be able to solve problems like this in society. Definitely. I know a game designer That designed a game that won the taiwanese presidential hackathon last year And it's basically an adaptation of the japanese app maimitsu That shows the refillable drinking fountains near oneself But they added to it a pokemon go like mechanism So that if you keep checking in and refilling your bottles and understanding how to combat climate change You can earn coins and redeem it to Understand more about the local specialty drinks from the agricultural products from the social entrepreneurs and so on And you'll get more push notifications that you're going to for example at risk of heat damage So you should feel your bottle and drink more and when people engage with this game for 50 days Then they make a new habit of refilling their bottles rather than buying new plastic bottles Which reduces the plastic waste as well as lowers the chance of climate change So you believe that in the future successful students will be people who can combine More different more more fields and more areas together to combat a certain one problem That's right and form their new constellations Excellent So that's actually like programming Yes, it is a sort of design. Yes How is that like programming? Do you think? So in design thinking we need to first explore to discover what other people's feelings are And then we need to define together the common values that can unite us in collective action So that's the first diamond in the double diamond view of design thinking Now the second diamond which is more about computational thinking is about dividing the task so that multiple teams can work on it concurrently And then converge together into a final Solution but the solution is not actually final It is just a beginning for another round of feedback and design thinking so that the design thinking computational thinking Follow one another in tandem Excellent at the same time so it's It's finding your common goals defining your common values and then dividing the tasks and moving together. That's exactly right So in this case, which is more important a specialist or a generalist? I think it is a generalizing specialist A general Combining both of them. Yeah Someone who is specialized in many things. That's right. Just like the triangle square and sphere Three-dimensional object that I just show you Excellent. I really appreciate the way that you are thinking Out of the box as we say in English you're thinking out of the box you threw the box away and you're just Using your open mind and I really appreciate that Okay, next one Currently and looking into the future What are some elementary school subjects that we don't have yet that in the future You think will be a part of elementary school curriculum curriculum design Curriculum design. All right. Tell me about that In taiwan, uh, we are now working with a new curriculum That's very consciously leaves a few hours every week for the student to draw up their own curriculum So that they can uh, what we call a purpose-based learning They can engage with this kind of pbl to find their own purpose and work with the school Which has a curriculum development committee that has student representatives in many schools And so the student has a way to participate and change However, they want the school defined curriculum how it works So if the students collectively want to learn philosophy, uh, even though there's no such Elements in the curriculum they can actually work with their teachers and start philosophy classes The same goes for for example esport or really any other out of the box thinking So this participatory Democratic design of curriculum is what we are looking at when we're empowering our next generation Who often know better what they are wanting to learn instead of we as curriculum designers So with the curriculum design theory Students will propose what they want to learn. Yes. They want to know more about that's right And then present that and the teachers that in the school the administration Creates curriculum and learning Learning space for them to learn what they want to learn. That's exactly right. So they become co-creators not just consumers of curricula Co-creators and not just consumers. I like that. Why do you think that's important? Because the world changes faster than we can anticipate as Curriculum designers and the world changes literally every second At our curriculum, uh, we change the structure only once every decade or so So it's almost Inevitable that it feels outdated the time that it really hits the schools And so we deliberately Make sure that the Schools work with the student not just for the students to shape their learning so that whenever there's any emerging thing For example, the sustainable development goals Or the pandemic, uh, and then the school's curriculum can reflect that in real time instead of waiting for another 10 years So it's more time sensitive and more respective of the Choices of the student that may have before They can only choose this school or the other Which interprets the same curriculum in a different way, but with them as co-creation Pogness in the school They can actually work through their school curriculum design community to make sure that the next Great, uh, the younger people who enroll to the same school can also benefit from the lived experience of the Students that came before them and participated So we just talked about what we think maybe will come in the future Do you think there's anything in the current curriculum that will not be in the curriculum in the future? Well, I think currently in the curriculum We already focus on the competence instead of just literacy For example, we talk about media competence the ability to produce your own media And the journalistic standard that need to be associated with it But there are still some points in the curriculum that talk about literacy, which is Foundationally about a one directional like listening to radio watching television and things like that Because truth to be told there are still such broadcasting televisions in our society Including this very one that we are speaking on But in the future, I think most of them will be What we call a multicast meaning that people can talk to Various other people without necessarily the intermediary of tv stations or radio stations And at that point, I think media literacy would be gone and replaced entirely by media competence Media literacy will be replaced by media competence. What about subjects like math or Reading or science? Do you think those subjects would be around in 20 years in the elementary school curriculum? I think uh mathematics will remain. I don't know about math Okay, mathematics will remain. What about uh science or history or linguistics? Yeah, because to me math uh when I was elementary school children math is about doing hand calculations But I was already programming computers back then so math as in calculations feels irrelevant because I can just Apply the mathematical knowledge that I learned and have the computer do the well computing right the calculation And so uh, I think this has been happening for a long time and nowadays We are okay with student taking calculators for example to uh mathematics examinations And so um in the future, I think there will be less of these math like Hand calculations sort of thing and the same applies to the other sciences as well There will be less chores less, uh wrote memorization. There will be more co-creation Less memorization more creation Excellent What about uh linguistics for languages history? I think uh to learn about a different culture that is still essential and it will remain Uh, but uh the memorization of another language Maybe that will be augmented by assistive intelligences such as machine-based translation Excellent So in your experience you actually have probably created curriculums yourself Yes yourself and maybe for others How has the how has that results how have those results been? Pretty good. Uh, I was one of the members of the national development community of the k212 curriculum That took effect a couple years ago And by far I think we switched from a Memorization or literacy based curriculum structure to a competence based structure And the upshot is that the middle schoolers even primary schoolers many of them are enjoying The freedom of being a media being able to raise for example e petitions That successfully petitioned for for example banning of plastic straws in our bubble teas and other single use utensils gradually And in our national petition platform At this very moment that there's more than one quarter of petitions being raised by people who are not yet 18 years old People who don't have the right to vote in representative democracy are definitely still very active participants in our participatory Democracy and also I think because of this competence based learning They are petitioning not just for their own benefits But for the planetary health as can be evidenced by seeing the banning of plastic straws by putting a cap On the carbon emissions of the launches in schools and things like that Excellent. So It sounds like I'm just shocked that one fourth of the petitions being raised are by School children. Yes less than 18 years old. That's right by school children That's amazing So they're all they're taking an active productive part in their own future That's right. And this is only possible because their civics teacher sometimes Even assigned us as the homework like find a social or environmental issue and start a petition about it Is literally the assignment of many civics classes in basic education now Wow, that's amazing. You should be proud of yourself for starting such a such an amazing future Okay, next one. So now we're going to shift to a little bit more personal So what you we've talked about your professional development and professional achievements Now I want to talk a little bit about some of your personal um experiences um Are there any regrets or mistakes that you made as a child? um I heard that In some interviews and watching that you saw that you said there was times that you felt like you didn't fit in And I know how that feels for my own reasons, but uh, when did you feel like you didn't fit in? Yeah, uh, for example when I was a child I would attend a math class But I wouldn't pay much attention to the hand calculations for I already know how to program And when for example in the first grade in primary school, the teacher was explaining addition, right x plus y Like four plus five is nine or something I was saying that it's only nine if you count in decimal But what if you count in binary one plus one would be one zero? And so on and the primary school teacher simply asked me to please visit the library during the math classes And not disrupt the learning of my classmates and that of course made me feel that I don't quite fit in So you felt like academically you were at a different level. So you didn't fit in That's right, but I fit in with a librarian. That's just fine You fit in with a librarian. That's right. They would suggest what to read They would give you ideas for books. That's right. And I learned about the do with dexamon numbering system In first grade that's right Wow, okay, so then What advice would you give to the younger yourself? It sounds like you had a kind of hard time in the classroom So if you could talk to the younger Audrey, what advice would you give to the to the first grade Audrey? Well that there is a very large world out there on the internet And instead of trying to fit in like literally with the same class of young children There's a lot of very interesting interest groups on the Internet and one can very easily fit in no matter how Obscure one's interests are So you felt like if you could tell yourself You know, don't worry about fitting in in this classroom because if you look online You're going to find people that are the same as you exactly excellent, so What other struggles did you have as a young as a young person growing up? You said you struggled in math class, but what else did you struggle with? When I was in the second grade in primary school I consistently placed the first place in examinations And the person who consistently scored on the second place Gave me a really hard time about it and bullied me along with some other classmates It turns out that they will Actually get punished if they don't score the first place And so they're like personal sense of width is built on something that's very unstable And so I quit the primary school for half a year on the second half of the second grade And then I read up on a lot of for example Montessori, Piaget Many of satir many Psychologists that specialize in children's psychology and learned why those people were bullying me And of course once I quit the primary school The person who used to score the second place now scored the first place So but it doesn't really mean that they learn more It's just that their sense of worth has been appeased So I think this is also one of the places where instead of trying to fit in I would instead want to understand the entire structure and the structural issues that came Because for example of the parental expectations that were misplaced So you were in second grade you quit school because you were being bullied by the person who wanted to be The top but you were always the top studying your top top score And rather than studying things from school, you said it's psychology because you wanted to understand Why This person was acting this way. That's exactly right. And also I put that in the curriculum that I helped design a couple years ago So that there will never be student-to-student competitions and Relative score in the classes would never be taken for example by the graduation requirements Of the universities and so on So did you feel that studying psychology helped you? Yes, definitely because if I don't understand the situation and I would not be able to propose something that will prevent this Injustice from happening again So once you were able to understand the psychology of what was happening with the other students and with yourself Did the bullying stop? Yeah, definitely because I changed to another school. You see I attended three kindergartens Six primary schools and one year of middle school before I dropped out Okay three kindergartens Six elementary schools and then junior high school was just one year So I so I never Did what we call the summer homework because I was just changing schools all the time during every summer What was that like? um, so it's um as I mentioned it means that I constantly connected to new people and learned new perspectives So for you that was a a plus then. Yeah, it is something that's very exciting because instead of just a linear path of understanding the society I could In Germany or in Taipei or in new type of city and so I see the world through various different perspectives I love that idea Okay, so let's go the next one I'm sorry. I feel like I'm playing to this, but I'm just learning so much In your opinion, is there anything that the world views as good But you think is not good. Oh According to the Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. That's the next question. I skipped one What do you feel is necessary for someone to achieve their dreams They need to have sufficient amount of sleep sleep Why is that if you don't sleep well, you don't have dreams And then if you don't sleep with a good quality, you don't end up remembering your dreams in a consistent way And if you don't sleep well, you don't have their energy during the day to achieve the dreams sleep that's Do you sleep well? Yes. I slept very well. I slept for eight hours. I already mentioned that That's good. I I too I don't function if I don't sleep so I I can I can a hundred percent see where you're coming from sleep Excellent. Okay. So back to the question. I just started Is there anything that the world views as good But you think is not good or even bad in our society? Yeah, I think putting extra waking hours to work is sometimes especially around our corner of the earth as showing diligence and so on as a school children One is Recommended to finish one's homework even though it means putting extra hours and cutting down on sleep but the truth is If you don't sleep for a sufficient number of hours, you don't remember those homeworks anyway and so for people who show diligence by putting extra hours and Sacrificing some of the hours for sleep. I think that's actually a very bad thing so the the stigma between Working a lot and studying a lot and sacrificing sleep is something that you view as not good Yeah, if I need to work very hard And integrate various different perspectives into a coherent understanding I would put extra working hours to my sleep I would sleep for nine hours or even 10 hours and that is a much more healthy way to do Problem solving Okay, so you believe to sleep more you can accomplish more What about kids who don't finish their homework? I think if you finish only say Three quarters of your homework, but you sleep very well Chances are you will remember those three quarters much more and much better Then if you finish all of it, but didn't sleep well So you believe that Finishing as much as you can but getting proper sleep is more important than finishing the assignment and getting less sleep That's exactly right Okay Excellent. What if you were the teacher and the student gave you a the The homework and they were only halfway down three quarters of the way done. How would you view their work? I would say that they put in a extra care to themselves and I would Commend them for it So What if they did three quarters of their work? Um, but didn't finish their homework, but it wasn't because of sleep. They just stopped doing their homework Well, I would find out what was interfering with their sleep For example, if they are addicted to touch screens, then I would recommend that they Maybe interact with the touch screen not through their fingers, but through a stylus or a keyboard Which to me consistently improved my quality of sleep Tell me about that So if I use the touch screen too much Then my brain thinks the screen is an extension of my body And then when I start to swipe it sometime I couldn't finish swiping it It feels more like the screen swiping me rather than me swiping the screen However, if I interact through a stylus like this or a keyboard Then it's always intentional meaning that I have to think about what I want to do before I do it And therefore always it's a computer is by itself And I'm by myself we're in a partnership, but we're not sharing the same body so to speak And so I would not build up the addiction that makes it harder for me to enter the state of sleep during the night So you think that if you Use your touch screen less that your quality of sleep will improve. That's right. If I touch the screen less Then I sleep better Okay So in Japan there are some people that don't sleep and just keep working What do you think about them? I think of course if they are born with this ability Then I applaud this imbued ability, but for myself. I don't really learn things if I don't sleep That's me So I'm really interested in your theory about The touch screen and the phone. Do you do you have a smartphone? I do have a smartphone, but I use a stylus to interact with that phone So it's like a pencil. So for example, I also have my working device Is an ipad But as you can see my primary interaction with it is through this keyboard or through this stylus And instead of a touch screen, I only touch the screen when I'm zooming something in or zooming something out But only very briefly Excellent. Excellent. Thank you So with online communication progressing In your opinion, what new types of people will become leaders? I think they are the people that can work across disciplines across different cultures and across generations Why is that? Because the network connects People previously who do not live in the same neighborhood together based on the common values But if you connect to people who live a very far distance away from your home Chances are the culture will be different and Instead of people in the same class the age may be very different as well And it is essential that instead of seeing things in only one perspective One can entertain the different perspective Drawn by different disciplines and so on. So a transcultural cross-discipline Intergenerational attitude is necessary to get anything done Otherwise, we are not truly connecting to people much less leading the people So a good leader then in your opinion is connected to people and More than leading they're actually connecting to people. That's right And also being able to as I mentioned take all the sides of people So a good leader that will be able to be empathetic and connect to a wider group of people in the virtual realm and online communication That's exactly right because there's more diversity there. So inclusion is much more important Inclusion so in your opinion The new types of leaders will in the in the online communication world are the ones that are able to include as many people as possible That's right. Uh, as long as they share a common value, of course They're in common values. Excellent so is that just in the Internet community or in Society, well, I don't think there's much of a difference now in places where broadband is a human right Everyone can bring some of the online dialogue to the face-to-face communication as easy as opening a Telecommunication tool on their phone, right? So because of that, I don't think there is a Hard delineation between the internet community quote-unquote and the face-to-face Interaction where are now much more integrated than before Very integrated excellent So what about people who are Not as skilled as speaking in front of people But they could do you think someone like that would be able to be an online leader? Definitely People who are specialized in speaking to a camera by themselves Can nevertheless pre-record certain interviews and certain ideas and enjoy the feedback Asynchronously that's to say not in the same time But nevertheless being very eloquent in listening at each other And I think that's the main benefit of internet is not just to transcend the places But also to transcend the time so that people in different time zones do not need to like wake up 24 hours a day But they can nevertheless Replay the critical interactions and offer their take on it Excellent. We're running short on time. So I have one more one more question for you and you can keep it short if you would like to What message do you have for the children of japan? I know that we've talked about a lot of things today But what message do you have for the young people in japan for the for the youth of japan? I would quote my favorite liana kowen poem That says there is a crack a crack in everything And that is how the light get in Is there anything else you would like to add to that? And I wish you all live long and prosper Excellent, let me make sure that we got everything we need before we let you go I realize that your time is so valuable. Let me just make sure that we have everything we need Okay, of course Well, do you have any questions for us? I think we're all good. Uh, and I'm really enjoyed this interaction. You're a excellent interviewer Oh, thank you for saying that. I like that. I'm I am your online stalker So if you see me in your followers, you'll know that it's me. Okay Okay. Yeah, you're you're a stan, right a stalking fan I'm a stalking fan. I'm a stan. Yeah I'll I'll be your stan for a while, but it was so nice talking with you Because of you my day is off to an amazing start and I I really think that this is going to be a powerful message for The viewers here in japan and I'm really thankful that you made time for us today And I'm honored that I was able to talk with you. My team is right here So they can you probably want to peek in and say hi as well Yeah, thank you the team for putting it all together. Thank you Thank you so much. I'm going to pass the torch back to the producers and directors But it was very nice chatting with you. Have a good day. Have a good look at time. Bye