 This is Will Spencer from the Renaissance of Men here with the new 21 report and Ian Smith of Attila's Jim & New Jersey. How you doing Ian? What's up, man? How are you? Hey doing really well. How are you? Good. Man, how was your talk today? It was awesome. It was awesome. A little bit different than what I'm used to. Much more intimate environment. But I liked it. It was allowed for the personal aspects of the story to come out a little bit and the longer format was was nice to be able to give the whole story and not just to highlight real because I think there's a lot of important lessons for men in there. Yeah, what were some of the things you got to share with the men here at 21 that you don't normally get a chance to talk about? Well, you know, typically I'm in front of a more political audience. You know, most of my talks are at medical freedom rallies, pro-freedom rallies, stuff like that. So the format is the same. I tell the story, you know, because it's an interesting one about what Frank and I did keeping the gym open during COVID. But I try to leave people with some some things that I've learned. You know, people are going to take what they want from the speech and they'll learn stuff. But there's there's important points that that myself and Frank have learned, you know, in the process. So I try to wrap the speech up with that. It was just a little bit different today in terms of what the the messages were. You know, I spoke about the importance of brotherhood because if it was just me or if it was just Frank doing it, it couldn't have been done. You know, we rely on each other and we built we built a connection with each other that helps us both be able to perform, but also keeps us sort of sane through the fight and you know, the weight of the world is too much to carry for one man. No matter how big and strong you are, no matter what battle you're fighting, it's always good to have brothers around you. You know, they make you better. And I've learned that not only with my, you know, my my brotherhood with Frank, but the tribe of the gym, that important aspect of building a tribe of people who are of like-minded, who you can depend on, who hold you accountable, who will call you on your BS. And I don't think that there's enough of that today, but those things need to be consciously created. Because I do believe that they're consciously being destroyed. Brotherhood, community, consciousness. Yeah, absolutely. So that was lesson number one. Lesson number two is the importance of your word. We made a promise to each other that we were gonna see this through no matter how ugly and nasty it got. It's gotten pretty ugly and nasty and I don't ever have to worry about Frank not holding up his end of the deal. You know, we're business partners, but it's beyond that. You know, Frank gave me his word and I gave him my word that we were gonna we were gonna keep our gym open no matter what and knowing that your word is good and having a track record of that makes your relationships better, but also knowing that the word of others, you know, those brothers that you trust, that tribe that you trust, knowing that their word is something that you can depend on changes things, you know, because you can let your guard down a little bit. You can focus on other things and not have to worry about the what ifs of, you know, a shaky agreement and really just wrapped up about the big lesson is that agreeable men leave weak legacies and agreeable men sit on the sidelines as the world turns and culturally we've been conditioned and pushed towards this agreeable soft compliant man and, you know, we're watching society rapidly change around us in some not so good ways and it's because men are not standing up anymore or not enough, you know, and that used to be something I think that was far more common where men would call out BS where they see it, you know, now everybody's so worried about getting criticized and, you know, God forbid you speak up your toxic masculinity or your mansplaining or your whatever and all those things are just smoke and mirrors real things. So I try to tell these guys to be less agreeable, you know, to question, to challenge, you know, it's not about being an asshole, it's not about being combative, but it's, you know, I use the example of pack animals, right? The alpha is always being challenged, doesn't mean they don't respect the alpha, doesn't mean that, you know, they're trying to overthrow the system, but they're challenging the people in charge and that keeps the people in charge able to be in charge and do the best job possible, but it also keeps the whole group energized and sort of moving in a direction where everybody is constantly getting better because of that challenge. So that's the lessons that I got out of that. Just for these guys, you know, like I said, it's different for every crowd, but you know, these are men in this audience who are looking to better themselves. It's not necessarily a political thing, it's a personal and an individual thing. Were these themes that you thought about beforehand or was like speaking at 214, should you kind of think about, well, what would I say about masculine today too, a bunch of men curious about the topic? It's stuff I've thought about, you know, through my own desire to understand what it means for me to be a man and what value system that I have, but speaking at 21 convention has forced me to put those into more than just a fleeting thought, you know, and really think about it and take a look at our story, the story of Frank and I and the story of Attilus and try to find some gems in there because there's a lot, you know, but there's a lot of gems in there for a lot of people. So, yeah, I think these are some of the most important things that you can take away if you're just looking to be a better man. Looking back, so let's turn back a clock like two, three years, something like pre-COVID. Would you have ever thought that you'd be a public speaker to thousands of men and women around the world? No, no, not at all. You know, you would ask me two years ago if I could have had any impact on the world, I would have told you like, no, I'm just one person or, you know, whatever the standard answer to that would be. But here we are 20 months into the COVID madness and Frank and I have inspired millions of people around the world. I mean, we've, you know, it's hundreds of thousands, I don't know, it's a lot and we're just two regular guys. Like we say, we're just two dumb gym owners, you know, but we did something that people respected and we never faltered from that no matter what came at us. It was always in our hearts and our minds, we knew that we were doing the right thing and we continued to do it even when it got harder and harder and harder. And that's, it's just been an awesome journey. It really has. As you look back to previous phases of your life, can you kind of see shades maybe, you know, you put the pieces together, looking backwards and not looking forward, can you see like, okay, I can see some of the things that might have lined up to make me this? Yeah, you know, the woman, you know, the book is written collectively sort of by myself and Frank and mainly the author who finds stories like this, you know, and she's a storyteller, you know, she lives through something with people or, you know, she recounts it through stories that they tell and others, but she has said that quite a bit. Sorry, the book you mentioned? Yeah, the author of the book has. Which book? There's a book coming out called, I'm sorry, there's a book coming out called Two Dumb Jim Owners and it's the story of Attila's Jim and Frank and I with a little bit of her backstory and just the details of the battle. And the woman who wrote it or who wrote the bulk of it has said that numerous times, you know, because she's asking about early experiences and stuff like that. You know, she's an author, she's curious and she's asking questions and she said that several times, she's like, yeah, this was a long time coming. You guys just didn't know that and I don't know, but I guess from somebody else's perspective, to us, we just stumbled into it, you know, the fight came to our doorstep and Frank and I had to make a hard choice and we made it and it just so happened to be a really good one too. But yeah, I mean, I guess there's a lot that kind of leads up to something like this. A lot of pieces that are there for a while and don't make a lot of sense and then all of a sudden they kind of fall together. Did you find the men were receptive to your message about brotherhood and your word? Very much so. Men are in general are hungry for that right now. And men are also very aware now that women are very hungry for true men. So you have a surge in the interest of just figuring out what it is to be a man, figuring out what your value systems are. What do you care about? What do you not care about? Where are your boundaries? These kinds of things. Typically, we don't ask ourselves these things anymore. That was once, I think, a normal part of life for men. We sat long and hard and we thought about our values or we were taught our values and these days it's just not, but you have this resurgence, this renaissance. But it's true. You have a good title for a reason. It is. It's this renaissance where men are suddenly opening their eyes and looking around and saying, I don't like this. I don't like where I'm at. I don't like who I'm not that you don't like who you are, but I'm not as good as I could be. And how do I get better? Where do I start? What do I start with? Do I go to the gym? Do I read books? So you have this huge community that's just rapidly expanding and these guys are more than ready to learn and to put into practice. So it's awesome crowd there. Yeah, I saw you having some conversations with some of the men last night at dinner and then afterwards like what sort of things are the guys talking about? Asking about your story, just sharing stories back and forth or what's I like? You know, it's it's you have you have guys that are just trying to figure out their own shit and there are a lot of questions that that are mainly guys just looking where to start you know because that's the big thing. Once you get momentum and you start kind of understanding more about yourself that it's a snowball effect. You know, you can use the example of the gym which is just one of many avenues you can take to start improving yourself. You go to the gym and you're nervous and you know nothing what you're doing and you look stupid and you feel stupid and you know you're doing stuff wrong. But once you like start getting those little wins and you know you see that first change or you walk in the gym for the first time and you know you're not thinking about everything you just go get like a really good workout. That snowball is very quickly. So I think you have a lot of guys right now at that initial phase where they're just looking for the first steps. So you have a lot of questions guys who are now thinking hey maybe I can start something in my area. You know maybe I can maybe I can convince some of my friends to be interested in this too and maybe I can form my own little tribe and that's what needs to happen. So you got a lot of questions about stuff like that and you know it's that's the big thing. People are looking at where to start because a lot of people are just now kind of tuning in and being brutally honest with themselves and saying I need to get better. It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. You mentioned women being hungry for authentic masculinity and we have the 22 convention going over that going on over there. Have you interacted with any of the women either gas or speakers? What have they said to you? Same thing most of the women that I come across say you know I started being a political activist with with all this and you know we would go to these these rallies and stuff and it would be like nine to one women to men. Yeah I remember you tweeting about that. And I mean that's and you talk to these women and you know I speak at these rallies I talk to these women they thank Frank and I for what we've done and they they tell us that they wish you know their husbands would stand up or they wish that they that they could find men who will stand up and it's like there's nothing inherently special about us and but these women are just looking for men with character and conviction and because so many men have just like kind of tuned out they're they're missing these opportunities you know and it's you're having this huge disconnect between good women women of high value that men should want and should desire and and the men that would be filling those roles in in these women's lives and there's disconnect because men have tuned out and and they're distracted and they are holding the wrong things of high value. You know it's it's incredible the amount of messages that I get in my inbox on a daily basis that are women who say literally the same thing you know you get women like men like there should be a dating app for for patriotic men you know there should be a dating app for for men who will you know who will stand in support of whatever you know what I mean they're just they're so tired of what they've been force fed with feminism and this third whatever wave of feminism we're on at this point that even the women who subscribe to that don't respect the men that they're with they're looking for something bigger and stronger and more masculine and I think if once guys realize that it's a pretty good motivator for most men as it's always been it's it's all women women have always been a motivator for men you know women motivate us to do incredible things because women women are our mothers and our sisters and our daughters and there's nothing more beautiful and sacred and important to a man than than that because what legacy do you leave if you leave nothing behind these are these are the women that will bear your children these are the women that will raise your children these are the women that will hold your family together while you go out into the world and be a man and there is just a huge demand for men to step up and start those roles that's really incredible I was talking yesterday on a panel and had the thought that there are a lot of people out there that think masculinity is the problem with feminists think masculinity is the problem yeah but masculinity it's the opposite it's the solution and it's really really it's really encouraging to hear that women are recognizing that masculinity is the solution because in on the ground in many men's lives it wouldn't be seemed to be the case that people feel that way yeah absolutely but you see the you see the opposite women saying like no we need more masculinity you're on the ground with that absolutely you know we are you need both you know you need the inherent characteristics of both to have any any good working system whether that be a a one-on-one relationship or whether that be society as a whole there has to be a good balance of those characteristics of masculinity and and femininity you know we have to be tough we have to be rugged we have to be firm we have to be able to protect these are all masculine qualities we have to be able to compete and push the ball forward but at the same time we do need that softer side that emotion that caring you know all all of these things that women bring to the table but what has happened is masculinity has been pushed out of culture and demonized by culture and it's been overtaken not by feminine qualities but by hyper feminine qualities the the the spectrum is skewed there should be a balance you know what exactly that balance is i think that's up to the culture but we've skewed so far that there's there's very little masculine energy in our culture at this point you know look at look at the men who get catapulted to the top of our culture you know we we idolize actors you know what what is an actor what kind of man and then again nothing nothing against the the the job of acting but like what what kind of man it just pretends to be other people for a reason and these are but but these are the people we idolize you know what i mean um and even if you look at the way like the the film industry and hollywood has changed you know look at your look at your action stars back in the 1970s who were they they were rugged men they were men so like stuff like that exactly and look at your look at your action stars now i mean look at your like your look at the guy who plays spider man like yeah that that's a hero yeah that's like a flimsy soy boy they do that man rubber exactly you know bat batman used to have like a barrel chest and and well you know he was he was a man you know he was rugged he was rough he was there was there was a darkness to him there was um there was a masculinity to him you know now it's he just as long as he doesn't offend anybody you know he can keep doing his job saving the saving the world but god forbid you know so it's and that's just one of of many examples where you've had this this major dilution of masculinity you know even look at our sports i mean football you're not allowed to like i mean it might as well just just do flag football right you know every year and again it's again you don't want guys to get hurt but it's it's a sport you're banging heads you're knocking heads you know it's like they used to wear leather helmets you know and they used to get out there and and and and just wallop each other rugby yeah and it's like now it's you know you got guys like LeBron James who like if you if if he smells your breath he falls over like it's just and it's that's such an insult to the the competitive nature of of life and it's like but we put these people up on pedestals and then and then we wonder why we make no forward progress or why we're in this this disarray where we have this hyper emotional society that's just super reactionary you know you look at the way people communicate everything's based on emotion now and it's like where's where's the critical thinking where's where's the where's the facts you know facts don't matter anymore in our society it's all about how you feel the right facts matter a lot but yeah the wrong facts they don't matter at all yeah exactly and but it's we have too much feminine energy and we have we have we don't have good feminine energy either and that's that's that's another issue is we've gotten so far from what is truly feminine energy just like they changed the masculine energy you know to what I was talking about you know soy boys and and dulling down masculinity they've they've contorted what it means to be a woman you know they the fifth wave of progressive feminists came by and and celebrate you know sexual liberation and it's like that's great that's great a woman should be sexually liberated absolutely does that mean she should go out every Friday night and sleep with another man no you know what I mean and but they're lying to these women they're giving them false value systems and these women are are winding up very unhappy I mean I how many women wind up in their 30s after they've partied their 20s away quote unquote liberated having no value on the dating market anymore go on any dating app yeah you know you know open up Tinder or whatever they're whatever they're called today and you know go through there and you're going to find a bunch of weak men who who offer nothing to the women who are on there looking and the women on there they don't offer much because men of high value are not interested you know in that and they but they they've been sold the lie you know like you should be able to go out and work absolutely believing quality all that stuff that's great it's fantastic but a woman who chooses to be a mother should not be demonized or made to feel less because that's what she wanted to do with her life yes you know it's I'm all for equality now you want to you want to dedicate your life to work awesome but the woman who gets pregnant at 18 years old and married you know and and has three four kids and is a stay-at-home mom and who has never worked a job is just as much if not more of a beautiful woman than some woman who makes a hundred thousand dollars a year because that's what they're judging their standards on right it's material economic only but there's so much more to a woman than that and then you know you tie that into you know you hear a lot of women they say well you know you have to be financially independent these days you know and I mean it's like yes but yeah if you choose the right man you'll never have to worry about that and but we're not doing that we're we don't even choose our partners with care anymore and it's it's the energy is skewed just terribly there's weak mass than energy and there's almost aggressive feminine energy and they've got that totally flip flopped around and but it's and I think that's truly by design I think that creates a weak and controllable society oh absolutely we're seeing it we're seeing it now everywhere yeah so you care yourself as a man who's kind of proven yourself to yourself right you've had the opportunity to be tested in some really difficult circumstances both in life and and I guess you might say out there in the world to how you're going to show up as a man and it would be possible for a man to be as big and strong as you are and not have those questions answered about himself and now you've answered them so you show up in the world a different way now as you're out there in the public going through airports traveling around the world you know even if people don't recognize who you are how do you find that men and women respond to you like really showing up in the world and being visible um yeah it it tells you a lot about who the person is by based on how they respond to you you know they I've yet to have anybody ever come and and truly challenge you know Frank and I got a lot of criticism for opening our gym and all that and there was hate mail and phone calls and you know nobody ever said anything to Frank or I in person you know um but that the way that people react does tell you a lot you know you have um you can tell who doesn't like you and is who is threatened by your presence but it's so funny because they won't ever address the situation like you can feel if you pay attention you can feel it and you can see it you know but these these are the people that will never confront you and these are also the people that will criticize you endlessly behind a telephone um those people exhibit a lot of control over a lot of men because so many men are afraid of that criticism they they they think that that criticism that they seen or maybe experienced online is actually real and the fact is it's it's not and that these people will never say or do anything and even if they do it's it's it's a test for yourself you know you you should welcome these kind of situations where people don't like you because it will solidify who you are to yourself like like you're saying you know you wind up proving yourself to yourself and that's probably one of the one of the best things a man can do is know know who you are know where you stand know where your lines are you know what you will tolerate what you won't tolerate and how you'll react when you're under a little bit of pressure you know when when you feel the when you feel the pressure do you fold do you you know how do you react and you know I said it in the speech um you know somebody had asked about like taking a stand with masks and stuff like that and you know on the surface that's very stupid right it's very superficial like oh it's just a mask um but the reality is is that if you can't say no to somebody telling you to put a mask on your face what what bigger battles are you prepared to conquer you know if if the you know the the the the greeter at walmart is enough to scare you into compliance like what happens when when somebody knocks on your door and says it's time for your booster shot and you don't want one you know or or whatever you know I mean it doesn't even have to be COVID related but you should welcome those challenges and you should you should walk around welcoming and and being ready for them because the reality is they don't come nearly as often as you think and it's kind of fun knowing that you bother people it is yeah for sure you know um you know when I sit down on the plane um without a mask or I you know I'm in a store without a mask um and you can physically feel someone start to like get uncomfortable um just because of your presence you know it's it's good because you're actually doing them a service as well um whether they realize it or ever realize it or not you know you're forcing them to think a little bit um and and and if you have the opportunity to interact with somebody like that you can point out the absurdity and and maybe you'll get through to somebody um but yeah it's guys should welcome that because it's it's healthy it's good it's how you grow you get approached a lot or you tweet about being approached by women to put on masks you know do you find do you find the way that women react to you is different on all kinds of spectrum well yes actually yeah I mean when you talk about who have I actually been approached by it's always it's it's always it's always a if you close your eyes and you're like college educated liberal hyper feminist and like close your eyes and think of like who that person looks like it's always them you know I mean um you know and they but it's funny because they exhibit the same type of qualities they claim they claim to hate you know like what if I walked up to a woman I was like put a mask on your face that that would be I mean they would call that violence yeah you know what I mean but these same people who who talk about toxic masculinity will walk right up to you and berate you yell at you call you names you know accuse you of things you haven't done um and it's always women and it but it's always the same type of woman it's all it's always the the do-gooder who's never really accomplished much um and blames the world for everything she's never done um or he you know and that there's there's plenty of them too but that the the men who look and feel or look and excuse me feel like that also are muzzled and and won't say anything because they've been taught that they're not allowed to you know they they let the women speak yeah um so yeah it's funny but most most women do not think like that it's it's a loud but minority of people who have been gifted by the media and the institutions um they've been given a bigger voice than they actually have most women are more than happy to see a man being a man that's been your experience because you've been down 100% that's incredible to hear overwhelmingly in support of of men being men stepping up being assertive um when necessary being aggressive um standing up especially to authority is a big one with women right now you know because they they're wondering how how has all this happened and that's because men haven't stood up to authority in a really long time we've turned into yes man we've turned into agreeable men you know and then all of a sudden government is in your life telling you that your child needs to wear a mask at school or you know kids over the age of five need to be vaccinated and and now now now mom instinct is really kicking in for a lot of these women and but they're wondering saying like why are we here why didn't this stop a long time ago and they're they're upset and they're rightfully upset because that's not their job to be on the front lines you know women have a very particular skill set that is very helpful with this kind of stuff but their organizers their communicators their facilitators they shouldn't be the only ones showing up at these protests they shouldn't be the ones with their kid in hands going to marching on the state capitol about you know about mask mandates for their children in school you know they should be there but they should be behind the men because the men that's that's the men are supposed to do they're supposed to protect it's supposed to protect the families first their community second in their country's third three circles and and we're not doing any of that collectively so you're you're talking about a dynamic that i've actually been really curious about because i've been in situations where i've seen like couples walking around the city or whatever and he's wearing a mask and she isn't and i haven't been able to figure that out and you're talking about the same dynamic where the women are out front leading and the men are staying behind they're like well maybe the men are working or something like that but which valid to a point yeah exactly and that's the thing is like but there's a point at which i'm hearing you say that it's not valid and there are guys that are like you know what honey i'm just not going to go protest and they're checking out of the flight that that must be going on that's incomprehensible to me and yet i know what's going on so maybe that's related to he's wearing a mask because she's not because you would know a ton about this having seen it out in the world i think yeah i mean it's men have been neutered whether they realize it or not it's our generation is significantly weaker than the one that has come before us and and even more significantly weaker than the one that has come before that um and that's a that's a disservice yeah it's a disservice to the men that have built the world around you and and and your bloodline and and your legacy um you're letting the world change because you're afraid of getting yelled at by the walmart attendant that's it's it's pathetic yeah it really is it's it's especially when you know something is wrong you know it's one thing if like you're one of these guys that never watches the news and whatever like okay you got a little pass you're not on social media you know okay get it cool but you should be you should be it's your duty to protect and you can't protect if you're not paying attention so that excuse like oh i don't watch the news it's like well that time is passed turn it on you know what i mean don't get obsessed with it but know what's going on in your in your family in your household a lot of men are tuned out of their households if you go to work they come home they turn on the tv they go to sleep they wake up the next day the woman is just raising the child by herself true now granted you know she's the mother she's she's stay at home whatever but that doesn't mean that your job ends when you clock out at work you know you come home and you you support your wife like she supports you while you're at work you know so men are men are checking out they're not paying attention they're not paying attention to their families they're not paying attention to their communities and they're not paying attention to their country and that's that needs to change you know like i was i was outside the other day and we were walking through i was driving through the city and people are just walking through the city with their face down it's like you live in a beautiful place appreciate the architecture i don't know appreciate something you know other than your phone um and maybe if you start appreciating stuff you'll have have more reason to fight and more of a desire to fight and to to stand up and protect so but social media is this double-edged sword you know for frank and i and atilis it was one of many essential things that kept us and allowed us kept us safe and allowed us to to be so bold you know we we obviously there was a lot more to it but uh the media gave us a little bit of the head start and we were able to parlay the media attention into um into social media and and we essentially developed our own platform where we could rally support we could communicate with people we could put out information we could share other people stuff you know i can't tell you how many small businesses who reopened said hey can you post us absolutely absolutely you know i mean it's no sweat off our back um and even if it helps get you five people in the door those five people might bring five more and so on and so on um so social media is interesting you know you you you're dealing with an extremely powerful tool um that is currently being utilized in some not so good ways um by some not so good people you have um active suppression of speech in a country where that's not supposed to happen and you have this marriage of big corporations in government where they start to watch out for each other they decide they're on the same team you know and you have facebook and instagram and stuff who are again actively suppressing free speech and it's being greenlit by the government um that's that's that's slippery slope you know that's when the government starts okaying it and making excuses for companies that are finging upon your rights you know that's that's something that we should we should be careful of but at the same time you need it because you know people pick up their phone right so even so say you know instead screw social media you know i'm gonna make i'm gonna make you know 21convention.com who picks up their phone and opens their web browser first right nobody right who picks up the phone and opens up instagram first probably about 80 of people pick up their phone so if you want to communicate with the world you have to communicate through there even if only partially so you have to learn to you have to learn to utilize it use it for what it's worth but you have to also really realize it's not your that's not your world that's not your game you know the real world is so use it for what it's worth be very aware of its pitfalls because there are many and and keep it moving and and live more in the real world pay attention to what's going on out here yeah it's rare to hear a man hearing making a call man need to be on social media you don't hear that often mostly you hear a lot of unplug get off social media which i don't think is wrong but it's just unusual say no the fight is on social media as well and you got to be there to be in the fight just like you got to be in the real world yeah there's about there's a balance to be struck absolutely yeah what would you say to men who are considering coming to 21 or coming to the patriarchs event or even women considering coming to 22 convention these are the type of places where if you want to make a change it's a good place to start and even if you've been making change you want to make more it's a good place to be your one thing i one thing i learned this past year year and a half two years the power of networking power of networking and and we've we've gotten really rusty at that i think collectively you know we take a look at any random sample especially of a man right or even of a woman what happens to your social circle past 20 you know it shrinks what happens past 25 shrinks more what happens at 30 most guys most guys wind up feeling very alone you know their buddies have gotten married you know whatever or even they're married and they no longer communicate every day with their with their tribe they lose that tribe the tribe gets smaller and that's not a good thing i've witnessed the power of having a good network i have a tremendous network around me at the gym and because of that we've been able to do some pretty incredible things we've been able to grow as individuals at the gym frank and i have gotten better and stronger and we're better businessmen now we're better men now but we have this tremendous network but you have to build that network or that tribe whatever you want to call it consciously so you don't do that by just sitting around you know you gotta you gotta make the investment whether it's your time your money you know you come out to something like this and and you don't just come out and attend you come out and you consciously attend you exchange numbers you discuss ideas you put yourself out there you know you don't be afraid to jump into a conversation and start talking with these people because people who are coming here are coming here to discuss big ideas important ideas you're not going to have that opportunity go into the bar on Friday night or not you know if anything you're gonna be yelling at each other you know over over the music so it's a it's a place where you can start to develop the resources that you will need to be a better person so where can men and women go to help you and frank and atilis and the fight overall so uh our website is the atilisjim.com and that's A-T-I-L-I-S is how you spell atilis we're on social media obviously the atilis jim is our instagram i am ean smith fitness that's where you'll find me on all social media that's almost always my handle i tend to be loudest on instagram that's just kind of the way that it unfolded and that's where my platform is and that's it if you want to come by the gym we more than welcome that anytime as you know we're open every single day and and the best way to support us is to just follow the story you know it's not always about you know where can i donate which obviously we appreciate that quite a bit because we don't charge our members till we're done with this legal battle but the thing that has kept us alive is that people care about what we've done you know so follow along follow us on social media we always give updates it's a story that's not yet concluded you know and we're getting to the point now where things are starting to happen in court so follow along and you know maybe you'll be inspired to to find uh something to fight for for yourself amen thank you so much you thank you good to see you thank you thank you this is will spencer from the renaissance of men here with the new 21 report in ean smith of atil's gym thanks so much