 Thank you for joining us for this CNBC Africa debate coming to you live from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. Broadcasting live to 48 countries in sub-Saharan Africa. Over the next hour, we focus on Africa's next challenge. The continent is home to nine of the world's 15 fastest growing economies. Yet, over the past 10 years, productivity has fallen. How will the fourth Industrial Revolution impact Africa? Joining me for what promises to be a spirited debate, Paul Kagami, President of the Republic of Rwanda. Hans Bestberg, President and Chief Executive Officer, Ericsson Worldwide. Halle Mariam Desalen, the Prime Minister of Ethiopia. Akanwumi Arashina, President of the African Development Bank. And in a short while, Yemi Orson-Bajo, Vice President of Nigeria, will be joining us. Unfortunately, he's running slightly late due to his plane being delayed. Welcome to the joys of live broadcasting. Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining me. So broadly speaking, the fourth Industrial Revolution is about the convergence of man and machine. I'm borrowing here from the World Economic Forum. Digitisation is changing the way that we do everything. Emerging technologies are being developed faster than we can govern them. But there is a key underpin to all of this, and that is technology. The African continent has an energy deficit. 645 million people do not have access to electricity on the African continent. That's just over half the total population. You need power to power technology. And without technology, you can't make those quantum leaps in education, healthcare, financial inclusion, agriculture. I was very fortunate to attend an event last night, and I'm going to throw now to President Arashina from the African Development Bank, who unveiled a vision for a new deal on energy for the African continent. And we're going to start setting out that vision and how exactly we're going to execute on it, President Arashina. Well, thank you very much. I think we're talking about the fourth Industrial Revolution, and the first revolution was just simply a steam engine, right? Well, that is first, second, third, fourth, 50 Industrial Revolution. They all start with a basic thing that you must have electricity. You say electricity is like the blood in your body. If you have blood, you leave. If you don't have blood, you don't leave. And what happens is that 137 years after Thomas Edison developed the light bulb, simple light bulb, Africa is in the dark, makes no sense, right? You got today, you were coating the figure about roughly 645 million people without access to electricity. Additional 700 million people can't even cook on basic things, right? Now, these are numbers that we know, and we actually think that this is not acceptable. And that is why I was very delighted that President Kagame and Prime Minister Halle Mariam and President Alpha Konde of Guinea and Prime Minister of Ivory Coast joined us yesterday and Mr. Kofiana when we launched the new deal on energy for Africa. What exactly are we talking about? First and foremost, we want to make sure that it's universal access to electricity by 2025. With electricity, then you can have industrialization. You can create jobs, SMEs, smaller, medium-sized businesses can work. Schools can be powered. Vaccines can go into hospitals and be saved. And then Africa will not be known by the darkness of its cities or the darkness of its rural areas. Everywhere will be bright. So that is fundamental to what we're talking about. And I think the next part of it is really about industrialization and you were talking about it there. If you're going to have industrialization, take a look at our situation in Africa today. Africa accounts for 1.9% of total global manufacturing, right? We are here in Davos. Some of you may like skiing and all of that. If you literally have a skating board and you put it up on this platform right here, and that is Africa's share of global manufacturing, you can skate on it. It's flat. It came down from 3.4% in the 1990s to 1.9%. So as we talk about the Fourth Industrial Revolution, one thing that we must do is to make sure that whatever Africa produces, whether it is minerals, metals, agriculture, oil and gas, we can be at the bottom of the value chain. We've got to get to the top of that value chain and process and add value. That's why that is the kind of industrialization that will create jobs for us on the continent. And I hope that we'll be able to talk about that today and what kind of skills we need to be able to do that. We're definitely going to speak about the skills and STEM skills in particular science, technology, engineering and maths. President Kagami, let me bring you in here. And President Arashina has already pointed out to the heads of state that were present in the room last night supporting the New Deal on Energy for Africa. Talk to me about the political will, sir, behind this initiative. Thank you. Political will is really what is at issue here. Or other politics, if you will. Maybe the political will is there, in the end doesn't translate into the many things we want to see happen in Africa and beyond. I think the political will is there, especially in the recent times. Leaders in the government, leaders in the business, aligning their language and speaking the same language and the sense of urgency that something must be done. And I think we are discovering that though too late we are trying to do what we have known for too long that should happen. And that is government has its role to play, businesses have their role to play and we must come together to make sure that we are practical in doing things, depending on how we are organized as well. In actual fact, political will is the starting point. Whether we realize the energy level and objectives we want to put in place so that energy can lead us to realizing many other things, whether it is in manufacturing or growing of industries in different sectors, energy is essential. But for that energy to be in place, of course for example in Africa, we have huge potential in various sources of energy. But it is not understandable why we are at the point we are after so long knowing that energy is so essential for other things to happen. So the political will and the politics and governance thereof should be what we look at so that these things actually happen because all ingredients are there. All things we have to grow from or even the skills to put things in place, all these things are there in Africa. So we need to probably examine deeper why this political will doesn't really move as fast as we need. I should say we need to move very fast. We're going to definitely talk about speed of execution. Prime Minister, I'm going to bring you in here. The vision clearly sets out that all Africans should have access to electricity by 2025. What are the key challenges we've spoken about taking that political will, creating action, execution? What other challenges do you see Prime Minister to achieving that objective? Thank you very much. First of all, I think as any nation does, Africa also needs to transform its economy and that economic transformation needs a vibrant leadership in Africa and lack of leadership is one of the main issues and a bottleneck. That impeding constraint has to be resolved. And we as leaders of Africa, we need to show up that we are up to the requirement this time because Africa has huge opportunity and it's becoming now a global pole for growth. That opportunity has to be harnessed and we need to have sort out this challenge. We also know that there are a number of challenges in terms of technology transfer skills and lack of that capacity that needs to be enhanced. And again, countries like Rwanda, Ethiopia, we have challenges in logistics and all kinds of those things. But the main challenge again is power infrastructure. Energy is the main challenge in Africa. It's also one of the challenges. Of course, there is infrastructure deficit in Africa in many ways, but the main challenge is to have a quality, reliable energy source that makes industrialization possible. In my country, we have witnessed a double-digit growth for the last 12 years. And the need for energy is growing by 25 to 30 percent, which is beyond the growth rate you are making in the country. So it means that we have to move very fast in energy development if we want to move again faster in the development. I appreciate what the African Development Bank has launched, the vision of the president, which is very essential. And Africa has huge potential of green, renewable energy sources like in my country. We have to harness this potential at this time and we need the private sector to come in and engage in developing this potential in the country. We have in Africa. Again, we need to also see the good governance issue has to be addressed properly. You know, this is important. We can't hide that there is problem in good governance in Africa. We should have a zero-tolerance corruption and we should have a vibrant bureaucracy which helps the private sector to engage in and we should also have a political stability and macroeconomic stability that the private sector comes in and engage itself. So I think there are daunting challenges but the two narratives that Africa is rising and again Africa is a doomed continent is wrong to us. Africa is not a doomed continent. Africa is, there are challenges but it's a rising continent. We can address the challenge together with a political commitment today that's emerging in Africa. Hans, the Prime Minister refers to engaging the private sector. Ericsson has been on the continent for 120 years. You've got some 3,000 people across 53 countries of the 54 in Africa. Talk to me about that private sector engagement and your robust foray into the African continent. First of all, I think that there are a couple of things that are happening on the continent that are extremely important for having economic growth and sustainable development and one is of course universal access to electricity which is extraordinary important. The other is technology that is spreading across the whole continent. Right now 80% of the Africans has a mobile phone which is just amazing how quickly it has gone but that's slow compared to what we're going to see in the next five years. We go from 70 million people in Africa having access to internet to 700 million in 2021. So think about those two assets that now Africa is sitting on. They're sitting on electricity as far as it can come and then of course technology. That is of course enabling the fourth technology revolution in Africa start using the embedded technology for transforming industry but not only that. I mean doing things that some of these heads of states are doing here, transforming the society by starting getting digital healthcare, digital education, the inclusion because all that will be important when we're going to have economic growth in Africa and we just need to have that. But this time we can pair that with sustainable development and I think that's a unique opportunity that Africa has in this moment. Many of the African heads of states are talking about smart cities, the inclusion. We still lack the scale of it. We don't have the scaling of it yet. We still lack a little bit of the competence to work with governments to actually understanding how to do this using these assets. But clearly the 21st century infrastructure is coming into Africa quickly based on private investments and that we see will continue. And I think it's more for us to work together as President Kagame said you need to work over borders here because we have one part of the solution. The heads of states and the governments has another and of course society in large has to be part of it. That's what we see coming forward and that's why I'm excited to be there for 120 years and I have a plan to the next 120 years as well for sure. I want to get a little country-specific now again to set some context and we're looking at a situation where the Prime Minister refers to Africa rising and the Africa doom and gloom scenario. Now President Kagame we've sat on this platform a number of years in a row and I think that we're facing challenging times and potentially more challenging than when we sat here in 2015 in January 2015. Obviously Rwanda is seen as beacon of hope. It has transformed itself since the 1994 genocide. There's economic growth. There's development. There's digitisation. But sir I need to ask you given the external environment and the challenges including falling commodity prices and the risk-offer environment what is keeping you up at night? Well the challenge is all over the world and they will continue to be there. They will always be there. But what keeps me up at night is to try and do more and better of what we are doing already. I think some of these challenges come with opportunities including there is a silver lining around these problems. They make us Africans at least in Rwanda think harder and smarter. At the same time these challenges remind us that there are actually things we should be doing that are within our means that we are not doing. Maybe we should just stop rushing out there for everything and anything and also remember to carry forward what we are capable of doing. I'll give you a simple example. If you look at the levels of intra-African trade very low. Now while we also know that if we Africans traded among ourselves cross-borders we would have a lot of gains in the growth of our GDPs. Is that intra-Africa trade still sitting at 12 percent? Well if there is an increase it is one or two percent but we need much bigger than that. And these are things that we don't have to wait for and they are really not related to some of the challenges we are seeing outside there that we are worried about that are actually affecting us so we could easily compensate for what we are losing that we have been gaining from outside by concentrating also on what is very close to us and that we can do between and among ourselves Africans. Ladies and gentlemen as I alluded to earlier the Vice President of Nigeria was delayed. He is now in the room. Please welcome Yemi Orson-Bajo Vice President of Nigeria to the stage to join our discussion. Thank you very much for joining us Mr Vice President. I'm going to give you a moment to breathe while I go to Prime Minister of Ethiopia Mr President Adashina. Let's talk again Ethiopia specifics as you alluded to very high growth rate for the last decade above 10 percent. Government is targeting and correct me if I'm wrong above 11 percent for 2016 but softer commodity prices are impacting the environment and already your GDP agriculture's contribution to GDP is probably falling back from about 40 percent to 35 percent. Do you still think you're going to make that aggressive growth target and is it a direct result of your growth and transformation program which is the second growth and transformation program you've brought into Ethiopia? Again I would say that accelerated fast growth which is broad based and inclusive and shared is just not a choice because if we don't do this you know the poverty rate is moving very fast and it will engulf you so that there will be a huge problem the history of development in many nations tell you that there should be something pushing you very hard so that you can move very fast in economic development and deliver so we put this and we tried for the last 12 years and we succeeded in doing so and we put again for the coming 5 years to grow at a double digit we know that the global economy is not favoring us in some way but there is also huge opportunity for Ethiopia on the other side in the ladder of the economic development emerging economies like China India they are no more competitive in leather intensive manufacturing it is the turn of Africa now so Ethiopia has that opportunity we have to grab even though the commodity price of course the commodity price always will be volatile because you should add values on the commodity if you want to have a price that helps you to move forward so Ethiopia is now focusing on becoming a manufacturing hub especially in light manufacturing where we can compete better in the global market this time so again we have opportunity there is some slack and some areas of the economy there are also opportunities on the others and we need to harness that opportunity to the maximum possible that is the opportunity that the global economy gives us now to Ethiopia so we want to attract more FDIs from emerging economies and also other global partners we have witnessed this and we are working very hard to facilitate industrial parks development in Ethiopia with a huge vigor and companies like pvh and the big companies from Asia and I'm going to bring it to President Adashina because we cannot have a conversation about growth on the African continent without touching on agriculture and the potential to industrialize the supply chain, the value chain where agriculture is concerned if you could comment also on what this will do for women I'm not sure if you're aware but half the farmers in Africa are in fact women Sir? First let me comment on what the two presidents and also the prime minister I think they are absolutely right when President Kagambi was talking about the need for Africa to diversify its economy we have all these economic headwinds that are there but it exists because of the nature of the growth process our growth process has been commodity based but when you export commodities raw commodities you subject to those low prices, the volatilities of it and the contraction in China is a big problem and also the slow growth in Europe has also been a contract problem for us in Africa but what we actually absolutely need to do is to agree on three things first I have never seen any country or any region for that matter that has actually developed economic commodities people make money at the top of the chain at the bottom of the chain and so what Africa has to do is to diversify its export mix but also make sure whatever it exports whether it's gold, whether it's diamond whether it's copper, whether it's aluminium whatever it is, online gas whatever it is, we've got to process that and actually be at the top of global value chains and the first thing the second thing we have to do and President Kagambi mentioned this now if you take the continental free-trader area that we have today which in Africa Southern Africa we have the East Africa community and all that, it's one trillion dollars total, right? and so if we are able to open up that most of the exposure to global volatilities that we have will go down countries that actually concentrate a lot more on regional trade are less more likely to face a lot of those volatilities that we have the third thing that I think is absolutely very critical is agriculture which you mentioned. Today Africa has 65% of the global amount of arable land left in the world to feed all of us that well I don't plan to be alive by 2063 or whatever, 2070 but at least there's going to be roughly 9 billion people that we have to feed by 2050 and they don't smoke gas, they don't drink oil, you know, they eat food and Africa has the capacity to do that so we must unlock the potential or this presidents are doing that and so is the vice president from Nigeria with the new government there but in trying to do that the question we must ask ourselves is what type of agriculture agriculture is not a way of life it's not a social sector it's a business, right? and so we've got to make sure that we do commodity-based agro-alite industrialization of the continent today Kotevoa, Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon produce 75% of the global supply of cocoa, right? the size of the chocolate market is 100 billion dollars a year but Africa accounts for only 2% of that, right? and so we have to set up agro-alite industries at home that process everything we've had into high-value commodities that's the way in which you make a lot of money and you talk about the issue of women I am very passionate about women issues in Africa, look if you support women farmers with access to technology access to finance, link them to markets these presidents are all doing great things on that and what we want to do as African Development Bank is I announce that we at the bank we're going to provide a facility of 300 million dollars that will allow us to direct the financial institutions to lend more to women and that will allow us to leverage 3 billion dollars for women farmers and SME-based women businesses in Africa we've got to unlock that potential of women all across the African continent and one last point that I think I'm going to make is the fact that you know, political is critical yesterday when we had the new deal on energy and we had these presidents and everybody was there we all agree with one thing that whether it's agriculture whether it's SME, I don't care what it is without energy we can't solve it that political will is critical and that's why I want to say that we all agree that Africa is tired of being in the dark also tired of having discussions around beneficiation, we've been having that for years but even having that discussion about beneficiation in the dark because if you don't have electricity you can't fix any of this problem and I'm going to take that opportunity to bring the vice president up to speed so a little bit of context we've spoken at the outset of this debate about the new deal on energy for Africa which was announced last night we've then gone into a little context around both Rwanda and Ethiopia and obviously we've also chatted about the agriculture context we've been waiting for you sir to get a little bit of an update on the Nigerian economy now again context the president Buhari recently tabled his 2016 budget working on an oil price of $38 a barrel we know that the news headlines here at the World Economic Forum in Davos have been focusing on the fall in the oil price it is now below $30 a barrel and counting how is that impacting Nigeria? Well first let me apologize for holding you up the truth is there's no way of not being impacted by the falling oil price I mean we had initially thought $38 was conservative enough when planning the budget but that's gone as you pointed out below $30 but then for us also there's a silver lining there because it means that we're not paying any subsidies which frees up something in the order of about $5 billion which was a subsidy cost so in terms of the budget I mean we're still working on the figures but oil prices also mean that there's some advantage there but overall we still have to think in terms of financing the budget you know and we have about $2.2 trillion something in the order of about I think that it comes from like $4 billion or so US dollars deficit which has to be financed and with the low oil prices obviously we're going to have some challenges with that domestic resource mobilization we're looking at domestic revenues especially VAT extending the coverage for collection of VAT and also customs being more efficient with customs and general governance issues managing the whole process of government expenditure more closely and with a lot more transparency so we think that with adequate governance around budget management and around expenditure management we can actually do quite a bit recently implemented some some processes such as putting all of the civil servants and all public servants on an electronic platform which of course has also led to substantial savings we've also done the TSA, the Treasury Single Account which means that all government revenues come into as it were a common pool and the Ministry of Finance can at one go take a look at all government finances see expenditure see receipts and also be able to watch expenditure some of those will save us substantial sums of money and I think for us transparency is key and if we're able to do those things I think we might be able to come away with our under $30 although we do expect that some magic on scene hand is going to turn things around pretty soon I just want to give a time check we have 30 minutes left for our discussion I think we've set a lot of the context we're now going to pick up the pace because we've got a lot of ground to cover the next challenge Hansa I haven't been ignoring you so I'm coming to you because of the recent reports about Barclays PLC pulling out or reducing the exposure to emerging markets and one of those territories being sub Saharan Africa I'm going to ask you what what do you use to assess the level of risk in an economy and what would make you pull out this goes to the doom and gloom side of the conversation Prime Minister that you alluded to earlier probably talking to the wrong guy I think we never have left the country that we've entered in so I think in the long term there's always challenges in different countries so you're there for sick also absolutely I mean of course if we're not allowed to be there we will not be there but we're a long term and we think we're working with infrastructure we're working with services we're trying to educate our employees I mean for us it's super important to be in all these countries we're working with available solutions worldwide I say the same technology in New York as I said to Rwanda or to Ethiopia the same technology so for us to be all that getting all the different exposures the needs of Africa how we build our technology for that is super important I think that when you of course understand the challenges you have in raw material volatility and all of that it comes back to what the President said that's also the time when you need to you always need to act upon the crisis I think that's the best moment thinking about how can you work differently how can you be more efficient I mean thinking about the tools that are getting into Africa and yes I sound like a parrot coming back to ICT but that is coming naturally into the whole whole continent the connectivity mobility broadband and cloud is coming into Africa in big almost all Africans will almost have a smartphone five years from now think about what you can do as a government using that tool in order to get education information public services in a much more efficient way than you do today once you have energy yeah energy of course today you're doing it without energy but you're doing it with with fuels that are of course waste in diesel etc of course it's much better to have electricity that are renewable and all of that so yes we need to go hand in hand but we don't need to wait for that because it's going to still happen the technology will come out I am going to pull from two private investors in the African continent in our audience so Jeffrey White is the CEO of Agility large logistics multinational investing in the African continent or on the African continent rather Jeffrey please keep it very very brief I'm just giving Hans some support being the only private sector voice I'm going to UN Global Ambassador Helen Hyde who's sitting in the front here I'd like to also get your thoughts but please keep it brief I've got skills development to talk about we've got a lot more ground to cover Jeffrey thank you very much so we're investing across the continent in building physical distribution networks and I actually think Africa's next challenge in relation to the fourth industrial revolution is probably the wrong term because what I believe from an African perspective is we've got challenges in relation to power in relation to infrastructure and those are historic challenges that are being solved and worked on I actually think the fourth industrial revolution brings a huge opportunity for Africa to actually embrace it and if you look what happened with the cell phone market Africa took a quantum leap from having no cell phones to using cell phones to transform the economy for accessing information accountability traceability and everything and I think an awful lot of what I've heard in Davos in the last two days is all about the fourth industrial revolution that actually if Africa embraces it will be another quantum leap that Africa can take to catch up Helen can we get your contribution Jeffrey would you mind passing the mic there to Helen I'm so glad to hear industrialization from everybody because China is moving from a labor intensive economy to a capital intensive economy 85 million jobs is currently leaving from China so clearly there's a great golden opportunity for Africa to tap that and I'm also hearing at 2025 there's this energy project but how about the coming five years because all those jobs is relocating out of China now is Africa ready in the next five years to grasp that to grasp that and that's a question actually for Prime Minister of Ethiopia and another question I'd like to raise is in last November during the China-Africa Collaboration Forum China talked about five collaboration pillars with Africa and 10 projects out of the 10 projects the top way is to help Africa to build industrialization second way is to help Africa build modern agriculture industry third way is to support Africa on finance fourth way is on infrastructure development and as a result of it China committed to give 60 billion to Africa in the coming three years what's your view I mean I would like to get the view from the president of Rwanda to talk about the China-Africa relationship in the coming few years so I'm going to pause on the China-Africa relationship I'm going to bring it to digitization which again is the underpin of the industrial revolution I'm talking about a smart Rwanda a partnership with Ericsson this was started in March 2015 what benefits are you reaping of the smart Rwanda this is about the transformative nature of technology that Hans has been leading to Mr President there are huge benefits already we are seeing and there are more to come we work with Ericsson for smart Rwanda and other technology companies and we are seeing that the convergence of for example bringing together the side where business education and research and also finance these things are coming together so on the side of companies start-ups so existing businesses coming together we have created a special economic zone where we have for example had these start-up companies existing companies existing and living side by side with anchor tenants like Kana Gimeron we are now having Institute of Theoretical Physics coming in to help with that and then companies in this area like Ericsson and others involved in this area coming together as well as what we have also created in terms of innovation fund in fact which African Development Bank is supporting as well so when we bring these three components together they demonstrate that this getting together and working together for the common interests we are talking about in the digital development and associated benefits can happen and we just scale that up so that is already become obvious but again this is not an end in itself it also has to you have to make sure that this is linked with the understanding and involvement and the participation of the general public the citizens have to participate in all this and it has to be geared towards the growth that we want but also growth that is inclusive and associated with the development Mr. Vice President I'm bringing you back in here I need some more context around Nigeria given its importance to the region you are the largest economy by GDP you've got the largest population Boko Haram safety and security has been a key concern also corruption and how the new administration is dealing with both of these issues please can you use this forum to give us an update on that front again this comes back to our topic because it directly affects foreign direct investment which has been dropping in Nigeria well as far as Boko Haram is concerned what we know now is that militarily Boko Haram has been practically almost completely degraded so in terms of military force or power Boko Haram is virtually non-existent but of course you'll find suicide bombings and bombing soft targets and that kind of activity and that really is what may constitute the current threat we're trying to move people back to their homes especially in areas like Miduguri which are the worst Toronto State which is in the northeast and which are possibly which is probably one of the worst hit areas and the other areas Adama and Yobes are relatively stable so we think that in terms of a real existential threat Boko Haram has been substantially degraded and we don't consider that that is a significant problem today but of course we've got to deal with the fallout of that we've got huge numbers of IDPs huge numbers of persons who have been displaced the economy of that region has of course practically been devastated so there are huge human and social concerns huge economic concerns which we have to deal with the corruption issue? Well corruption we're dealing with and of course we actually came into office on that platform that we will deal with issues of corruption and transparency generally and ensure that there is proper governance. The thing though is that for us the right approach I mean aside from ensuring that there is consequence for corruption the right approach really is to improve our systems across board to ensure that we have systems that are transparent systems that anyone can interrogate anyone can audit systems that people can pass through with our bottlenecks because really I mean rent seeking and corrupt behavior is really instigated largely by systems that are opaque and not transparent so our emphasis is on developing systems that work that are smooth that don't have the number of bottlenecks that there are Yes. Let me say something about the the issue of foreign direct investment because I think we need to be clear that Africa's economy is not they are not unraveling at all Africa is a very resilient region don't forget that for the last 10 years Africa was growing 5.8% almost 6% even now with the economic downturn that we have the slow growth in Europe and also the weakening demand despite that the projection is that Africa will grow but Africa is still the place to invest foreign direct investment coming to Africa is still about almost close to $70 billion right now the governments in Africa are doing great things Vice President just mentioned recently the President of Rwanda is doing a fantastic job the Prime Minister of Ethiopia in general macroeconomic management in fiscal management in times of the cost of doing business in Africa has gone down tremendously just take a look across Africa still remains in fact to an early point the place to really invest now what we need to do is look for the opportunity in the current situation you are mentioning the case of China now China has excess industrial capacity right now but if you look at the industrial wages in China you compare the industrial wages to that in Africa industrial wages in Africa it's about 125% of what they are right now in China so even as China looks internally it is economy through domestic consumption right and it wants to externalize its industries Africa is the place to go what you are doing in Ethiopia is fantastic for leather I mean we are here in Davos it's very cold here in Davos right but everybody has to wear shoes right Africa produces a lot of leather right we got a population of 1.1 billion people going to be 2. something billion people President Adishina I've got to bring it back I was 16 minutes left that point I'm trying to make is that Africa needs to develop industrial growth engines and those industrial growth engines is what's going to actually drive foreign direct investment that's going to mobilize the domestic capital markets for us to grow and develop we can develop simply depending on others we've got to grow domestic capital markets we've got to make sure that we mobilize our sovereign wealth funds we've got a trillion dollars in pension funds in Africa today we're talking about infrastructure the resources to do that they're actually available right here can we spend the last 15 minutes talking about skills development and how important that is to this conversation because Prime Minister and then Hans Westberger want you to come in one thing is having technology so first we have the power then we have the technology but how to use it and what to do with it is incredibly important so science, technology, engineering, maths are we making the necessary investments Prime Minister, followed by Hans first of all I would like to comment on China Africa cooperation which is the best cooperation I ever know as far as developing countries are concerned I think that platform is important to be mentioned when you come to any kind of development it means technology technological upgrading and accumulation so we should have a vibrant science technology from the kindergarten up to our university systems as very important for the future of Africa so we have to work on skills development as well as science, technology, mathematics and all those issues very essentially well designed in Africa Hans? Nothing coming back to foreign direct investments and education because they're very paired of course doing foreign direct investment it's really much about infrastructure transparency, countries working but one thing that is enormously important for Africa of course is to have their own labours that we have the competence in Africa we have Ethiopians working for AX and Ethiopia we have South Africans working for us and that has to of course that competence has to go up because infusing people from other continent that's going to be there for a while will not make the growth because there's a fear that technology is also going to replace jobs? No I don't think so that will make efficiency and I think that is a misconception that the technology revolution will actually reduce jobs it is the biggest opportunity for Africa you can leap from we heard earlier that's the leap we can do you can get inclusion of the African continent by using education it's not reducing possibilities but again it's really about also getting that labour that competence that is needing for doing that in each and every country that will grow consumption in domestic consumption so the money is not flowing out and that will be between the countries and again technology will play a vital role so don't forget that Is leadership surrounding themselves with the right skills President Kagami you are in an unpredictable environment earlier we said technology is new technology is being developed and it's difficult to govern that technology are you engaging the right people to help you make the decisions that you're going to have to make in this somewhat explosive technological industrial revolution absolutely and in fact some of those that work very closely with Ericsson as we said with Ericsson, with Cisco these are the best advisors in terms of technology and their producers of technology but let me add something and adding to what Hans has just said before people get worried about the technology replacing you know or displacing them from jobs why don't we also concentrate on making sure that we use technology for the right reasons which is increasing productivity and if we did that then it is easier to see which technology is harmful if at all and then we can manage that as a different problem but there is a blurring of lines here people talk about technology taking away jobs and so on and so forth and forget that actually in Africa for example we have deficit of technology and how to use it for productivity and higher productivity so how do we start getting worried about another problem when we haven't dealt with the first one it comes back education though and to the skills development that we were referring to so that people can work alongside the technology they can augment that technology I see you want to come in here because I want to link the point of technology science technology engineering, mathematics with the industrial development there is no doubt that we need the right kind of skills but what we have in Africa is the needs of the labour market and actually the kind of skills that people are having our universities are giving people labels but they are not giving them the competencies that the labour market needs so we got to break that disconnect the second thing is that we at the African Development Bank are supporting actually the Carnegie Mellon University in Rwanda to actually train a new generation of Africans that are actually first class in terms of computer technologies and stuff like that and all the others are in Africa but I do want to say that we need to look at developing in Africa in my view what we call skills enhancement zones what I mean quickly is that we've got to connect clusters of industries where students come out of universities and they get exposed to skillsets whether it is in healthcare industry, agriculture, whatever engineer whatever, Ericsson and all of that and so that they have the broad set of skills that the labour market needs and some of the ministers of finance are here that you can then use the fiscal incentives to encourage the companies to hire from these skills enhancement zones so that way you are shorting the search costs for Ericsson and so on looking at the labour market you make the labour market entry much easier and then you link the skills and industrial development together I think this is very fundamental but one last point we must pay attention to is education only 6% of Africans will have completed tertiary education and by that time the technologies will have gone faster so what we need to do is accelerate education, primary education science and technology training while making sure we fast-track access to tertiary education everything comes down to skills and don't forget vocational training is going to be very crucial in this fourth industrial revolution Minister Arashina, I'm going to do something we've got 8 minutes left of the broadcast I'm going to give each of the panellists I'm going to divide it equally you're going to get concluding remarks but I want you to touch on whether the fourth industrial revolution excites you or terrifies you in the African context most of us president I'm starting with you well it certainly excites certainly excites me because the truth is that for those of us who have large numbers those countries that have large numbers such as we have no choice but to go the way of technology I mean look at e-learning for instance and using electronic tablets to teach large numbers of people using mobile phones to teach large numbers of people we have millions of people to teach there's absolutely no way of catching up with all of the teaching requirements within the time that we have if we're going to rely on conventional teaching methods now we're investigating all of the possibilities we're looking at mobile phones that's possibilities for teaching we're looking at training 500,000 teachers in the next few months how we're going to do that without technology it's absolutely impossible I think that the truth is that you can't there's absolutely no way of getting around technology in any event it is the way forward is the way of progress whatever the cost may be I think is that the upside is absolutely incredible the opportunities are great and I think that we should really go for it and ensure that we're a big part of it we're going to mix it up no protocol here Hans Westburg you're up next sir I think it's just amazing how we're spending time with the UN many years and here I'm on a panel with three distinguished guests and head of states and then talk about technology what I do every day I think we're coming far away from the excitement that I see opportunities the challenge is of course to scale it to see that you can scale the solutions and have the possibility for the collaboration between public and private and ultimately we need bold leaders that actually embrace the technology transformation happening on the continent to make that public service I think that's the most important You're notably excited Prime Minister it excites me because it gives us huge opportunity in front of us to leapfrog to catch up but it also terrifies me if we go business as usual we'll be in a disaster situation You've got a little more time sir Do you know what to use? I can't use it All right, let me go All right, we've got President Adishina and President Kagami taking your time We're giving it up But I think I'm so super excited because to actually take advantage of the fourth industrial revolution requires energy so I think energy revolution in Africa is critical for that and in the next five years the African Development Bank will put in $12 billion into the energy sector and leverage about $40 to $50 billion on that is new deal on energy for Africa and the transformative partnership the other one is that we need to build revolution in Africa we need to make sure we upgrade skills and capacities to actually do the right kind of technologies and to connect into many of these new industries at the end of the day I think we also need a jobs revolution because we've got a population of young people they are very smart but they're looking for jobs so as we actually do technology as we industrialize as we solve Africa's energy problem we will not just be excited it will be the hundreds millions of young Africans that will be excited because the opportunities have finally come for them and I think our role but as leaders in Africa is to unlock that opportunity we have no choice Do you want some more time sir? One more time I can go ahead You can go ahead I'm going to give you I've got four minutes left President Kagami I'm holding time for you I just want to say that we need public private partnership in everything that we're talking about what we're doing is providing what I call public sector enabled private sector led industrialization so create the enabling environment for the private sector to invest this is going to be very critical governments are not going to be able to do everything the private sector is critical in all these things that we are talking about and I think that the last one I'll just make is that most times when we talk about the opportunities for Africa we must look inside the Vice President mentioned domestic resource mobilization we've got to mobilize our sovereign world funds we've got to mobilize our pension funds we've got to actually make our capital markets to work well so that we can actually use our own resources on our terms to develop in the trajectory that Africa needs to go and I think that is really where the opportunities lie for us and I think I've used up enough time President Kagami they've been very generous industrial revolution is very exciting and all it means is the benefits that accrue to producing as well as consuming which I think we need to reverse in our own case in Africa we need to also start producing technologies rather than just being consumers so but that will come if we continue doing some of the things we are doing education education science technology, mathematics management of that is something we need to continue to invest in and people for us in Africa we also don't need to just be thinking of fourth industrial revolution and forget that there is a job that has not been concluded in terms of being at the right level with the third industrial revolution so in my view we have a step in the third industrial revolution and I have another step ahead in the fourth industrial revolution and I have to make sure that I'm doing a good job of that so that we continue forward. The other point is people get worried about fourth industrial revolution in terms of displacement of jobs and so on and so forth but we are making artificial intelligence and 3D printing that may have harmful side effects and so on so forth but remember we are the ones making these technologies I think our intelligence our own intelligence must be smarter than the actual artificial intelligence so let's use our own intelligence to make sure that to manage artificial intelligence and get a good side of it gentlemen it's been an absolute pleasure with that spiritual debate on Africa's next challenge ladies and gentlemen thank you very much that's it from the CNBC Africa debate coming to you live from the World Economic Forum which is currently in session in Davos