 We are very lucky to have these three amazing speakers from very different parts of the world But all of them working in a very similar sector, which is the artisan sector I'll start with a few very interesting statistics But I don't know if you know that there are more than 300 million artisans around the world and it is the largest source of employment in Latin America, Africa and Asia just after agriculture and as it's mostly made by women it's one of the clearest paths to eradicate extreme poverty across these regions and This session is very special because we have three amazing people from Different countries, but also that are tackling the same problem from three very different angles One has their own brand trying to connect with companies and create really beautiful products in Kenya One is attacking this more from like the ventures perspective and investing in Native communities and the last one is a foundation working in the Amazon and also making beautiful things So I would like to start by asking you First of all a little bit about what you do, but more importantly, why are you doing it? How were you inspired by or to start your ventures? Maybe Caroline can we start with you? Good morning, everybody. My name is Caroline Ganga. I am from Kenya I'm the founder of a business called crafts with meaning We are five year old social impact business in Kenya We just try to harness the artisanal spirit of our people mostly in rural Kenya to create bugs Home decor and lifestyle accessories which we sell in our local market and we also do a bit of export here to the United States So I came across the opportunity to be of service to the artisans while doing my Just going through my career, you know and I happened to be working for the government of Kenya in the Ministry of Tourism and As you may know around the tourism hotspots is one of the places artisans try to sell their products Most of the times the products are not standardized. They are not done so well. The designs are not more done Probably not so useful. So the way they try to do it is what we call PT selling So they'll come to you. Oh, please. Could you buy this item from me? Because I can't feed my children, you know, and they will relay that the tourists borderline harass them, you know to get the items off their hands and Observing this everywhere we went in the course of my work I just thought because the technique is the same that they would use to make better items and then sort of do better value addition and seek the market. I adopted one of the groups That I met and that's how it all started It was initially just something I did on the side as a passion project to support these women I honestly didn't even really think of it as a way. I could make money I just thought about them firsts and as we will, yeah as we move along It just sort of got a life of its own Eventually, you know, there is one group and there is another one and there is a product and there is demand from the market And you start to be seen now as a more organized structure around which artisans can work because that's one of the challenges We have corporations want to buy from artisans, but where do they find them? Where do they? Connect with them are they formally registered companies won't deal with you if you're just an individual and we've been going through the paces And our company is growing and I look forward to sharing more. Thank you Thank you so much, Caroline. A big applause for her Now Kelly, could you tell us the story of Scott and Bernchers? How did you start and why did you start? so That's a very good question. I and I Have to move back a little bit like I have to start at the very beginning of my journey I am actually an entrepreneur I Founded my own Multimedia company and magazine when I was only 20 years old and this year we celebrate 11 years of existence for that thank you and I am I'm a creative entrepreneur. I come from a very artistic creative family I'm Native American. I'm in a Kojula culta to be specific originally from South Dakota and I grew up around art, but I Just really disagreed with the You know exploitation and the lack of support for our native artists You know, I know artisans are literally living from you know paycheck to paycheck, so Just growing up and seeing this it was tough to see you know my mom Make these beautiful star quilts and only sell them for $80 $60 just so she can buy food for us so That really fed into my passion. I started my company and just even Growing my business. It was a struggle. I had zero resources zero support and zero funding but I did it anyway, I bootstrapped and invested whatever I made into my business and Last year We were working with our entrepreneurs that graduated from an accelerator program that I also host but in reaching out to the Potential funders and investors in Denver. I invited them out and It was a mess. It was very bad They sat across the table from our native indigenous creative entrepreneurs and There's just a lot of going back and forth handing off Trying to refer them to someone else there again I seen this when I was coming up with my own business and it was frustrating So then I looked at my founding partner Alice Loi and I said hey, let's start a fund and she was like, okay so random what and So that's where the I at the purpose of Skodan and why we founded Skodan ventures, so Skodan ventures is a fund where we are ten million dollars and We are looking to invest in indigenous black brown and women entrepreneurs in the creative sectors that precede so very very rare But again, I how can I continue my work and empowering our Marginalized creative entrepreneurs and artisans so that's about Skodan Thank you, Kelly and Leo, can you tell us also how you started and why did you start? I feel like indigenous people as indigenous people you have no other choice that to Support your community protect your territories go to school if that for that will become your platform to support your village and your community and and Haku Amazon Foundation came out because In the in the Amazon especially a lot of like partners and NGOs have this very paternalistic ways of Working with the people in the Amazon a lot of times indigenous people get like In reality the indigenous people get less than seven percent of the funding That is being given towards the indigenous people around the world So that is to this is really is it's very bad for the people who are working towards You know climate change issues indigenous rights issues and we don't get any of that funding directly so in in my life have been working with Human rights advocacy and I had been in the world of NGOs to support Indigenous communities in Latin America So I decided to quit my job in 2016 and Basically said like I feel like we are at a stage in which we can take things into our own hands in terms of financial support in terms of in the implementation of projects in terms of Deciding what to do with our own lives because most of the the International political agenda or the NGO agenda is not what we want in our communities And it's not what we ambition on doing and it's not our reality. Those agendas are just mainly imposed by the people controlling the money and Therefore I decided to open up my own nonprofit to work directly in issues tackling our territory on issues that We as community decide what that we want to work for so in 2016 I quit my job I moved back to my village and And decided to support like one of the the very key elements in my village was like the women every time I I Had a job or I move out. I was traveling for work. They will say please help me sell this thing You know, please help me sell this thing I was you know, I can't just do this all the time like go to a conference put aside a table and try to help them Or at the end of the day I will end up buying them myself So then I have a stock of things because like with the money that I was making I was like just buying handcrafts from my aunt and cousins in my whole village So at the end of the day I decided to create a platform in which we can include fashion and Activism, you know fashion and human rights. I think that is the key element because like What I was when I started like selling and creating the platform I wanted to include the story of our people include the story of activism and Artisan and the women and why what are we doing this like like one of the key elements of Supporting reticence that are mostly women is that once we leave our territory our territory is left for fossil fuel extraction violence Destructivism so if we are able to Create a way that the women can have a sustainable source of income I think that is a game changer not only for the community but for the protection of the territory for the protection of the water for the Protection of our biodiversity ecosystems kids culture everything and holds like in globes like women Having this alternative source of income So that's how I decided that I want to be working and have one muscle design is one of the The projects that we have with the foundation and with the foundation like we have like a range of projects We have we have created the black indigenous liberation movement We have created the the fashion line the artisan line and now we have a production company To create videos and to tell our own stories So like it diverts into different things that in globes things that we want to do and that we decide to do as A community that in globes our own reality and the way we want to move forward Wow So as you could hear we have really really amazing speakers I think we could be for a full day listening to your stories and And I think another very interesting parties that all of you Understand very well the problems from the roots not from another place and came to the region So that gives you a very unique perspective. I would love to listen to What are the main challenges you haven't seen in the communities that may not be that obvious for people not being there and After that I would love also to talk about all the opportunities that you are envisioning and all the things that are going on that You believe can make the industry keep growing thriving and creating more impact So Leo, maybe you can start with you now. Could you share what are the main? Obstacles and barriers that you have seen in the community and how have you been able to overcome them? Yeah, I think one of the main Obstacles is like the the social capital that we as indigenous people do not have access to to open doors to open Financial advisors to open to funds to open to anything that has to be with money I think that is the biggest challenge. So for me that had had to grow into that I have like, you know, like 10 years have to pass before people start opening doors, you know And my career and the philanthropy world in the any kind of work that I did so once I had that in into Philanthropy or the financial space that was when I decided to open My own doors that to create I think like that that is the biggest the biggest challenge is finance the bill the biggest challenge is like access to finance and The other and one of the opportunities I think is There is a market. There is a market for stories. There is a market for our story. There is a market for people that want to consume things that do not damage the the planet because You know, you have like this old, you know green green fashion green green things But if you can say, okay You you can buy this green product But also if you can support this community in the way that you are supporting other products that are not necessarily indigenous I think that is that is something that is happening currently I think that that is the opportunity that I I think we're trying to have an in in that stake of the cake because Yeah, we hadn't had that chance in so many years. It was really really hard like for us We were just we just presented a fashion week, you know and last February and and it was it was really hard to have an Invitation to come to fashion week to even attend fashion week and no other than present at fashion week and that was February this year and then In September this year We're gonna ask another fashion show in Jacob and one of the indigenous designers of in the US had had its own show And it was amazing So I think like there are doors that are opening and now do you see like indigenous people are named team Other magazines and I think there is an opening and there's like a different kind of awakening of consumers of people and Which is need to know how to handle that because we also we don't want to be used, you know for promotion We want to be seen But we don't want to be used and that is a fine line that we have to be very careful with Amazing you. Thank you so much Kelly on your end. Could you tell us which obstacles have you seen on your part of the world and how have you been able to? overcome them The first thing that comes to mind is Because we are here in America People tend to assume that we have it just as good as other Americans and we don't a lot of reservations are Compared to third world conditions. There are reservations that don't have clean water running water electricity Transportation is sometimes shot usually it's just a gravel road and That you need like a Truck to drive on because the roads are that bad the infrastructures I What else lack of Service so like just even Wi-Fi Come on, you know, and a lot of people just don't understand that or haven't I guess you know learned that but so in my work with my my company native max magazine I Have featured native artists Since the 11 years that we've been in business. So I know what it's like or I I've seen you know the These artisans these artists struggle in North Dakota like the nearest To even ship out products say an artist wants to ship out some product out of their office or their home they have to travel like two hours to the nearest post office and On a lot of reservation on almost all reservations to you don't have a home address to get Packages and mail shipped you have to go to the post office and check your p.o. Box or your your post office box So that's another challenge in itself as well you can't just call you know UPS and hey, can you pick up my packages because I have to deliver them to my customers? Again, that's here in America That's the infrastructure that we are dealing with that we have to just you know, but we adapt native people indigenous people work We're adaptable. So whatever but so that's one of the challenges just automatically off the top of my head and I think the solutions are oh And another challenge as well as the exploitation that we touched on The tourism industry is well known for exploiting native people here in the US Yeah Loads of challenges again, I could we could go on and about this all day I have a whole list and obviously as a native person from here We're typically excluded from a lot of these conversations, you know, especially around problem-solving It's like, you know, hey, we want to talk about this and this but we're just gonna leave the other ones out You know and it's frustrating because we are indigenous to this land We I feel like and I believe that we should have some of the first say in a lot of these problem-solving conversations, but Yeah, so but with my work with Skodan, hopefully, you know, I can help Help start these conversations because it can't be just me either or can't be just native people either trying to figure out these solutions. So Yeah, those are some of the obstacles that I see Thank you, Kili and you Caroline Okay, I resonate with most of what you say just maybe in different form and it just shows that the bottom line is the same Exploitation and all that but what comes to mind that I'd like to speak about is The statistics that you just mentioned show the potential of this sector to get people out of extreme poverty But it is not seen as such important work. It is not seen as For instance, I'm educated. I have an MBA So when I say that I want to quit my job to start working with artisans, everyone thinks I'm crazy You know, they're like, oh, I mean you don't have any other work you can do and it is the general notion that is spread around The kind of work we do most of the times it's seen as a last result for people who do not have any opportunities So when people see that you have opportunities, but you've taken this work they're not very sure why you have done that and I think that limits the number of people that get into this very important work That would cause a ripple effect in the villages and so on and we start to concentrate on things that don't have immediate impact in the circumstances under which we live in our various places. So I always find that as a Big problem and I mean how I have dealt with it is just going for it and talking about it You know and when people see Sometimes they'll ask you also does your work really pay the bills, you know For those who know me they're like all these people shouldn't be asking these questions It pays the bills and pays for many others and many more people maybe should come up and do it Because also if this work is done by people without exposure, then there is an automatic limit to how far they can go with that I mean, it's not easy to come all 20 hours from Nairobi to attempt to sell things here to interact with people here To try and go into the retail space here Even locally in Kenya just getting into the retail space is not just something you wake up and do there is a bit of you know You have to put together a team and that's not just something that can be done by Other people it has to be done by people who have the experience who have the education to go with it Who have the exposure the connections to go with it? So I hope by the work that we are doing that more people will be encouraged and we'll see it as really a fruitful career that Both supports the artisans and their livelihoods and their homes, but also contributes to Giving the world better products more carbon-neutral products as compared to all the ones that we are competing with Thank you so much Caroline I think there were a few things said that I really really love for example the concept of being seen and not being used is very powerful and also the fact that the artist and industry Could be a big part of the solution to the climate crisis as well. So I would love to ask you Two questions one is how can we make indigenous people be seen and not used? What are the tools that you envision for this and to how can the industry? Be better at communicating that working with artisans is at the same time a Very good way to have more sustainable production. So Caroline would you like to start? I think as Leo said one of the most important ways is to create our own stories our own narratives and not wait for people to come Look at the people we are working with Try to create stories that fit into their narrative. I mean these are people living in their homes Generally successful in their own right and we should see them as that and see them as people of dignity And we must communicate that story our way It may be slow how the uptake of that story But if there is a critical mass of people who consistently share that as a story and Having even this conversation specifically in this conference about artisans is one of the ways I see as important I mean we've had Sessions on all the other Hype Topics so to speak the topics that everyone has in their mouth are everywhere But just to have one that speaks about this Usually ignored sector is important. So I see and probably that's how I am trying to do it just tell the stories profile the artisans with work with as people of Dignity people who have their homes who live in their homes who have a talent that the world needs and not as very needy people who the world must really pity and you know help just Profile the industry as part of all other important value chains. Yeah Okay, can you repeat the question real quick so I so How can we ensure that indigenous people are seen and not used? Inclusion Being prioritized There's again, just so many conversations that indigenous people are left out of especially when it comes to solving these problems and What I've noticed with you know Skodan We Have our we had to develop our own impact model Because you know there are tens if not hundreds of different impact models out there, especially for venture capital, but I Didn't see one that fit in from the indigenous perspective and said it was switched around It's like we're doing all the harm, but how can you help us fix the harm? We are inflicting on you I am not about that. I am like nope. I don't want to be gas lit. So I Sat down with Dr. Lee Francis. He's Laguna Pueblo. He's one of our advisors in the fund And I asked him to help me develop an impact model a Proprietary impact model and we'll measure our own impact within our portfolio companies and Also it promotes data sovereignty. We keep the data. We're not gonna You know, it's not going anywhere. So it's gonna be ours and we came up with this system to be able to measure the impact and it's really based on indigenous values and I Don't know how many people have approached me and like hey You know native people indigenous people have kept up the earth for so long and you know now We need your knowledge so Keep it up more into the future like how can we how can you help us again? So then it's like again like coming back around of like, you know exploiting like our knowledge to fix the problem you started and it's it makes me laugh every time but I see that now is all of the I don't know different people and Whatever Are looking to indigenous perspectives to help solve these problems But Yeah, I would say you made a problem you fix it Like a lot of times they're like in terms of climate change. Yes. Yeah, we have been resilient. We are the forefront of the fight We're doing we have community Law called perspectives and projects, you know in terms like tackling climate change We're doing it if like if you don't protect the protectors of the forest There's no way you can tackle climate change that is basically because we need We we need to defend the defenders and that when people talk about climate change They talk about the forest the co-systems the species, but they don't talk about the people in the community is thriving And the community is thriving we need thriving communities for thriving forest and That is one of the key elements that we do and in terms of The fashion line, I think like one of the key elements for climate like we were just talking right before the session The fashion industry contributes like 10% of the global carbon food print emissions of the of all of it so And we went and it's one of the most lethal industries for the planet and how are we going to change that narrative? How are we going to change that? Consumerism because at the same time we are selling things yet. We want to protect the planet. So how that? goes with our bottom line and for me in order to do because we were selling jewelry with haku amazon design and The way that we think undo it was like what is our next step? How can we improve or going to ready to wear and one of the key elements to go into the next step was We need to be a conscious line. We need to do We to make things that will not harm the planet. How are we going to make that? How are we going to talk about upcycling? resourcing and reducing the impact and I think that has to be at the bottom at the bottom line and what on the other two key elements I think when we first started we started with creating like the Like the jewelry line with the community and I remember in the second year One of the one person one one person wanted to invest and was like I will buy you out I'll give you three hundred thousand dollars. I'll buy you out And we were like we were just like very like you know like our second year like third year And like they're all will buy you out three hundred thousand dollars and that's it will put all the money and I think for us That is a no-go Because we need to support our value chain. We need to support the artisans We need to support the women we cannot leave them stranded and that was like we need to understand How to grow how to move forward how to escalate if we want to escalate But the most important thing is how to protect the people that we work with Because the people that we work with they're not just numbers that our families are causing our aunts and The people that we live with so I think that is like One of the key elements that we have to think in order to move forward with business because business and indigenous people how We are going to intertwine in the elements of Moving forward, you know, we have to be a business savvy, but at the same time protecting our forest defend the people who are defending the forest a creating alternative sources of income Stop mining companies that's a lot to do with and then throw like business You know and money and interest and I think like we have to establish those like core boundaries that core Values in our companies so then we can move forward into whatever what industry that we want to do in terms of like narrative, too Like we are like how how can we be seen and not be used in the fashion industry? That that's really really hard because people want to see like in the stories that we put people want to say I remember the first time I was featured in a In a national Magazine in Ecuador, they basically wanted to say that oh, I just came from the jungle Straight to the city and it was just it You know, that's the perception that they have of an Indian of an indigenous person And my mom was so pissed because she wanted to to show her coworkers that I was it was like this is not you I was like what have you? What what have you said? I'm like, you know, like we invested in you and like your education like all of this things But like the narrative that people want is that you cannot thrive as an indigenous person This is just like something of luck, you know that you didn't have all of this as steps before you Accomplish certain things so like I think that that is changing and that is that is upon us as well to keep our boundaries and Do not let other people wear feathers, you know, like I want to shoot for this thing Can you wear a feather? I was like I only wear a feather with my people with my community I'm not gonna do that so I was like I had to stop shoots because I got into a shoot and they'd like have like feathers and like people I'm like I'm like, oh my god. I'm not gonna do this, you know, I'm not gonna First of all, like my people will like kill me like If I'm trying to to do this but that that is also but in some sense we we We we we go in with that, you know, we go in with the other people and without knowing and That is what I think like we have to try back think about what can cause, you know What is the damage to our community? What is the the the the things that we don't want to portray as indigenous people and How to be truthful to the way we are to the way our people are and not trying to Create that narrative that they want to hear it's more of like how we want to be seen in the way That is more true and natural for ourselves Amazing Look, could you repeat the phrase about protecting the people who protect the forest so we can all use it No, I usually say like how can we protect the planet? We don't protect the people who are protecting the forest You know forest try the thriving people thriving So that is like one of the key elements because when we talk about forests and and ecosystems and climate change I was like, how do you want to protect all of that? You don't protect the people who are protecting the forest? love it So my last question before we let the audience also make some questions would be I Think it's very clear that you are amazing in a lot of different fronts. You are smart You are driven you can communicate very well How can we have ten times more? Caroline's Kelly's and Leo's in the world Do you want to start Kelly? Where's the clone cloney machine Again, it's it's helping Create opportunities and accessibility to these systems I come from the res where I think just Financially we're considered poor, but we're rich in culture. We're rich in knowledge So my mom would always tell me we're not poor. They think we're poor, but we're not poor But I really just looked around me and I I just knew in my heart we deserved better We deserve better, you know, we hear the stories of our people and the resiliency is there And I'm just like, you know what I refuse to just Keep living this way and you know, I really want to change. I want to see change I want to have change within my life and I really have my mom to think for that and I Really had to learn Every everything that I know now it was either through mentors or I had to learn myself Again being an indigenous person We don't have access to again a lot of resources That promotes upward mobility we don't have that Society assumes these different things about us. They have the stereotypes and all of that So You know, I even heard Within my work, you're a fast learner You learn very quick. You're able to adapt your but again, and that was all survival mode. That's survival mode Because we needed to survive we will look at something You know, it'll take us a minute But we will learn it real quick and I have my family to think for that as well because again I come from a family of artisans Which you know, it's Another thought that I had too was on My reservation, I think it's the poorest County and the country is Zibach County and But yet we Have artisans that create beautiful work like this like this is dentalium shells This is a ribbon skirt, this is native designer made, you know, so we are very creative people right we have great style and I love that about our people So again, and there's not just me I'm not, you know Crazy story that just you know a once in a One in a million like Amazing person or whatever whatever I hear when I share my story. It's like wow How did you come out of where you came from the rubble or whatever like all of these different things and I'm like there's Many of us out there. We are very creative. We are very smart. We just need that the access, you know to the again resources funding Capital Technical assistance the market, you know, it's it's everything so Yeah, I wish I could clone myself because there's so much work that needs to be done and as a native woman I tend to take it on native women tend to take on the community's work and Society put us there Unfortunately, but I mean I'm again. I don't care how much work it's gonna take, you know I I have a responsibility to my community and not only my community but seven generations from now, you know, so Yeah Thanks Two things come to mind when I think about maybe what we need to do The first one is that we need to work really hard. We have no choice This is the path we have taken We have to align ourselves to the conversations that are happening around the world We have to bring our work to the front not just stay in the shadows not stay in the villages where we are working come to the stage of Worldwide conversations and that will highlight the work that we are doing Secondly, we need to offer ourselves as mentors that we never had, you know Now that we know that that's part of the problem that you had to try and figure it all out on your own So what would have probably taken you two years to Q4? offer that to other people and Show this as valuable work that is part of how we change the world And then maybe we will attract more people to come and do the work that we are doing I think one of the key elements that we have to change is to change the all the systems of oppression where there be like universities Access to funding all of this. I think we need to Help change that narrative. We need to change all of those systems that have Not supported indigenous people thriving or artisan Artisanal people thriving think that is one of the key elements. The second thing that we have to understand is that We are not here forever and that we have to change that like get the younger generation Take the leadership take the leadership position like train the people like what we're doing in Haku is that we started seven years ago and one of the One of like one of the the women in the community now went through college And now she's like an international spaces. Now. She's taking care of like the Data space, you know, so we we have to let people come in and we start other things You know with always supporting that and I think that one that is one of the key elements and for for myself You know when I was growing up and I started like going to the UN and talking about climate change There would like I only seen like other indigenous person from the Amazon at the same spaces and like I felt alone and for me It was I was the most happy when I see now the new generations Occupying the different spaces and I think that is something that would help that we need to help thrive for the future and Let things go, you know, let things go and start and support with the new and and that is good and Retry back out to our homes back in the village and stay there and like happy, but Yeah, I think that's how can you do it and support training support other people. That's what we're trying to do Amazing. Thanks, Leo. How much time do we have? Right, so I think we have time for a couple of questions Anybody who wants to ask one, please Can you share with us what some of those are? so we just looked at what made a group of people society a tribe whatever how Did they live successfully a long time ago pre colonization and it was community and all of these Different elements so what we did was we turned them into pillars of impact so it's cultural cultural human natural and social pillars of a Successful group of people and then now we have to throw in financial because no choice so those are impact pillars and when we look at a company or a Yeah, when we look at a company of those impact pillars We also look at the impact capital of those pillars. What do they contribute to? either their Themself their business the Community around them or the ecosystem that they're in what do they contribute to each of those layers? so essentially it's a theory of change cyclical model and I hated that somebody called it that but Again that comes from indigenous knowledge. We've always known that so to describe it and for someone to say Oh, it's like this or that that's how it works. No, it comes from indigenous knowledge We believe that everything is a cycle In a cause and effect you do something today what you do today will live into the future It might not seem like it and you know again, but this is already knowledge that we have You know, so we just incorporated it into our impact model and we have a metrics and modifiers as well That really helped us with the output Which is really cool. Again. I'm not an academic or anything I honestly got to where I am at without a degree. My highest education is a high school diploma so it's but I was able to communicate this to dr. Lee and he Spit out this like cool thing and I'm like Yes, you got me you know because that's really the impact that I want to make with Skodan. It's With our impact model. It's revolutionary. I haven't seen an impact model such as ours. It's indigenous made Incorporates indigenous knowledge because again people are looking to us for solutions and Yeah, so that's a little bit about the model little a lot of it But yeah, I'm really proud of our model Other questions And then we're having to go For us it's been more of Two ways so there's a referral model So people who know what we are doing tell others who need our kind of work and we get to know about them from that perspective But also we have really been out there Communicating on social media and letting everybody know that this is a kind of work We're doing if you know any great people who can benefit from the support Then you should let them know this is a way to to let them know that we are here So I suppose there's really no other way other than making sure that everybody first of all knows what you're doing a Lot of times they will find a way of plugging in sending out the message They are using the network you already have to achieve the referral model and also just communicating in all the platforms The people who need it will most of the time reach out to us at times more than we can actually be able to incorporate But which is a good thing because it creates a pipeline and every time our capacity increases then we can bring more people on board Yeah I'm gonna be very honest with you we're We don't have that problem with Skodan or my company We are closely plugged into the community what we're trying to Do it continue to do and we're Finding new ways but creating transparency with all of the systems that we're in because obviously marginalized communities, right? aren't included Again in a lot of conversations. So There's a lot of mistrust there disconnection there. So, you know within our community. There's curiosity like hey And and then that's also a reflection of my work because again, I've been doing this for 11 years So already people are like hey, what is this? I read about this So then when I tell them I have to also explain that you know It's just really funny that a native indigenous person is inside the finite this venture capital world. It's completely bizarre It's so like yeah, so I have to explain, you know What we're doing and what we're about again with the transparency part Is my suggestion as well on top of what you suggested? Hi I Don't know like one of the this when we first started We found a fund and we did like a lot of workshops for many communities and then we Found out that we didn't have the market So that was very detrimental to the work that we did and it was like one of the challenges But the one of the thing is was that the people were forgetting how to make those hand crops so that was beautiful because we're able to train a lot of people and Then they were able to sell in their own communities without us necessarily buying from them And now we have reduced the amount of people or communities that we work with and now for example, we'd say oh, we'll do the the Will do the embroidery with you will do the earrings with you and then that's how we separate we are currently not expanding Because we're trying to focus in the communities that we already work with And that is that is sad because we will love to work with as many communities that we have but also we I think we have We owe them, you know, we owe our community. Oh my village I owe like the people that already work with that process, you know of growth And once we have that established, I think we can go into other communities Yeah Reciprocity with our communities. Yes, and and I think that's the the key element of you like of indigenous people in general like a black brown communities that Once somebody has done something you have to give back to your community. You have to give back to the earth and That's basically that's the model I think we have one more question Maybe you can ask both and we can try to be very quick I Think the work we are doing Fundamentally comes from that place that the items these communities make they don't have any value for them They do it for survival and we know that these are actually items that can be sold in a real marketplace And that people can value so we start from there We create for them a marketplace because there is on there They go out on the roads trying to sell is from a very basic domestic need for money to buy other items So if our businesses our social impact businesses can create a market for them Then I think we will sort of be on the way to solving that problem The other thing that I see from my own experience is that a community in a certain area will always make the same thing the same exact thing So the first one the second one who comes to talk to you they are selling exactly the same thing So can we support them in the design work in creating using the same? Inherent talent for instance if it's weaving you can all make bugs or some of you can make mats Some of you can make wall decoration Some of you can make red ones others can make pink ones Not just one thing which you're now trying to compete at the bottom of the price range So I see those as the two ways in which we can support them Can we put them in decent market places where they are trading from that point? And then can we support them to use the inherent talent that they have to create a variety of products? Of course amongst other ways, but I see those are the two that come to mind right now