 Good afternoon everybody and a very warm welcome to our lunchtime webinar express series We've got a great session today with Megan Harrison on the opportunities and challenges to marketers in transforming businesses If you would like to share any thoughts about today's webinar on the socials, you can use the hashtag CIM events We love to see your comments on the socials. So please do get involved and let us know what you think of today's session Okay, so without further delay, I'd now like to introduce our guest speaker for today's session Megan Harrison If you'd like to turn your webcam on Megan, I'll pass things over to you and the floor is yours when you're ready Thank you very much Pippa and good afternoon everybody. I'm Megan Harrison as Pippa just said and I look forward to Being here in the next 30 to 35 minutes To share some of my thoughts around business transformation and the implications for marketing and marketers like us and before I Go on to introduce myself a bit more. I thought just set us up to as a reminder of what we'll be covering today So a little bit around business transformation and why marketing is often at the forefront of that and then We'll move into sort of the organizational impact of that and really looking at some of the opportunities and challenges that throws up Not only at the organization level but actually from a marketing perspective as well And then we'll go on to talk a little bit more about the real impacts to marketing Not only functionally but from a leadership perspective as well And then as we said there will be time for lots of discussion around the examples Learning tips and Q&As at the end as well So by way of introduction probably not so much about me but more about setting context For what I'm about to share my thoughts and this session overall I guess the the real purpose of this slide is to say hello and this is this is I guess Me so I've worked for a real diverse bunch of businesses that you can see here and left some Fantastic businesses and also some fantastic brands But I think really the purpose of showing this is to lay the the context for for the discussion to say These businesses are fantastic and these brands are fantastic But all of them actually quite different to each other. There's a real mix of PLC businesses in here as well as some privately owned businesses And there's a real mix of brands as well So some of those in leading position some of those in challenger position and I think what that really therefore kind of led me to to kind of develop and learn about is that Really through all of my career most of those businesses have wanted I've had some appetite for change to some degree so some of them would like a complete overhaul and that's the task in hand and They want to totally transform the way they work and some of those just have smaller aspirations But there's always a good appetite for change in those businesses that I've worked in and in my career Overall and the second thing that has been common actually through all of those roles is most of those businesses Visitors have set the agenda to become more consumer or customer focused in their approach and Really become more consumer centric essentially now obviously and my career is very much in FMCG That's not necessarily true for everybody who is listening today But I think and hope that we would all be able to identify with some sort of customer or Consumer that we are serving as marketeers and therefore hopefully that generic thought is very kind of relatable for everybody So and of course that leads us to quite an obvious point I guess so who wouldn't agree with that. I think as market is particularly here, but also brought a business Leaders as well I'm sure we would all agree with that and actually most organizations would agree with that principle that we should become more and more consumer or customer focused and So I think you know as a principal itself Everybody would tick the box and sign up to that being a very good vision set and a very good thought to progress It no matter what stage of a business is out overall So in business transformation for that reason then marketing is often right at the heart of this change and We find ourselves therefore sort of often either having to lead That transformation or at the very least having to be a fundamental part of that shift Towards a more more consumer or customer centric approach and of course to do that then you might need some mad marketeers Just like us to take up this opportunity or challenge and you know I think I think it does throw up a lot of opportunity But it does throw up a lot of challenge and of course we're often writing in the thick of that as well. So In all of that, of course that that I think is why business marketing often find themselves at the centre of business transformation but of course the impacts of that are Widely felt actually through an organisation if a vision is set in that way, then of course the realities of that are actually become quite Quite challenging. They throw up many many more things than that principle that we all agree to upfront and think is a great idea to do So these are some of the things that I think I've learned along the way about what that that can throw up The reality of that situation might be for example, if you look in the middle of the the left-hand diagram there, the circle That that might involve more over investments in what I've called the front end of a business model. So We might have to invest more in Dealing consumer insights or actually in supporting a brand or even in Where we invest overhead perhaps broadly commercially And you know that that might also represent a very different shift in decision-making that we are trying to therefore Focus on consumer-led decision-making rather than perhaps in the FMCG world. That might be a supply chain or Trading focus that might have lived before that And so those kind of realities Starts come through quite quickly and what we then start to see I think quite quickly as well Is some of the more challenging areas of transformation emerging? So we start to see this point around alignment. Is everybody aligned in the realities of what that means? Does everybody is everybody willing to make that shift to a consumer-led or customer-led decision-making Sort of approach and actually some of that can represent perceived shift in powers with the Organization which perhaps aren't real Obviously can cause some some challenge along the way Does everybody understand what this really means and does everybody have a good understanding of the change that is that is coming? And actually is everybody does everybody have the right level of capability and skill sets to really drive that agenda? And you know, that's not in any way weakness. That's about signaling that a business is going to change. And therefore the levels of capability may also change in that way Through this process some Deep-rooted cultural norms will no doubt be challenged You know business is used to operating in x-way and then when we start to move in another way Actually what we used to do yesterday is not going to be the same as what we might be doing tomorrow and so The the cultural Norms of a business might also need to adapt and of course ways of working structures processes They may not be fit for purpose for that new way of working. And so there's a whole sort of Shift in that that also needs to happen and when they're going really gets tough I think it's really interesting always to see how that how committed really We are to that vision For the long term and even how much the sponsors of that vision come under pressure to sometimes Perhaps compromise on that in some ways as well. So I think all of those things represent the impacts to an organisation Through a business transformational process and of course closer to home then for us what we start to see more of is is emerging Is those key opportunities and challenges for marketing and clearly today that's what I'm going to sort of really move on now to talk about In and how that impacts us as marketing is closer to home So I think always in that situation if a business is really trying to become more consumer and customer focused and We accept the point that marketing therefore will be at the heart of that transformation Then of course it will a lot of the the emphasis on what happens next will fall to marketing and You could even go as far to say it starts with marketing because The consumer is that front end that we're really trying to focus on So one of the things I've always reflected on is that to be able to start leading in that way and driving that transformation With the business and then Of course, we must get our own house in order to start with and That can vary depending on the state of an organisation For the you know, how developed a marketing function is within an organisation and the individuals and and and team Sort of development is as well So I sort of just listed out here some of the typical questions I've been asked about Sort of just listed out here some of the typical questions I start to ask Myself in those circumstances and really it's about just really holding the mirror off at this point saying are we are we in a good enough position here to start leading that You know that that transformation that we're being asked to And I would ask these questions of myself as much as of So I have to put the light back on there we go. I would ask these questions of myself as much as I would of lots of other People in my team and us as a function as well. So Here are some of those questions. Do we have a clear vision and strategy that a business can follow Do we have are we the truly the consumer customer experts? And are we really Driving that to consumer focus decision making and everything that we're doing are we credible? Do we appear credible both internally to the audience as well as externally outside of the organization as A group of marketers or a team that truly can lead that Do we come across as professional confident even bold because we will have to be brave at times to Lead the way on that transformation But also as a team are we aligned are we clear on that alignment and what we stand for? In the organization and beyond Are our fundamentals of marketing Established and clear and are we really clear on our strengths weaknesses and gaps and and those might be Okay, if we know that our strengths are in the right places And are we able to lead and influence beyond marketing? Which is a huge role for us to be playing in any business transformation And are we sound in terms of financial and commercial acumen and and that makes a lot of difference Depending on who you're trying to influence in in the organization to do things differently So the question I was asked is is why should anybody? Be led by us Are we fully equipped to do that? So how does the function stack up and and perhaps what's the roadmap to building this together? And I've just popped in here perhaps an example of a useful tool that You can use to do this. It's fairly straightforward But you I think when you really understand that a business's vision of where you really The business would like to go Then from a marketing perspective We can start to think about one of the priority areas therefore that we need to be absolutely Brilliant as marketeers So you could list those out on that first column on the left there And then the second column is very much about a current assessment of Our capability as either a group or we might choose to do that individually How good are we at those things right now on a score of one five? It can be that straightforward but actually How important is that attribute if we were achieving excellence in it? Would it be to that business transformation and through doing that? I think you can really start to get very clear on the priorities That you'd really like to focus on to Make sure that the function or individually You're up to that those opportunities and challenges that we've outlined To take on that transformation overall and from there you can get into a roadmap So perhaps starting to get to a plan of how you might start to improve certain areas or develop In other areas and in which time frame So which I think is a great place to start as a marketing function But beyond marketing There are many many other skills that we need and and actually other things that we have to do to try to drive That kind of transformation agenda So I've got six here that i'm now going to chat about a little bit more And in each of these i'm going to try and give a bit of an example Perhaps some how i've how i've done that in the past some of the key learnings And Then i'll summarize these at the end before we go to q&a So there are six as I said, there's one all around engagement and how we can never underestimate that There's one around using our core strengths as marketers of getting creative well beyond marketing and into the organization more broadly A third around pragmatism and how important it is to stay pragmatic in these times of change A fourth around pacing ourselves A fifth around really engaging others as advocates and influencers to try to I guess Help the help you on your way and and engage other people to help you do the heavy lifting And the sixth and final topic is all around The fact that there will always be pirates in this and those pirates I use that term loosely But people who don't want to change or people who are finding that agenda quite hard and how to really Think about those and break break down the challenge there in a really proactive way So the first thing i'm going to talk about is engaging and I think um engage engage engage I've called this because I think you can never do too much engagement and Of course Our time isn't limitless, but the more you can do that and get people really bought into The vision and perhaps the consumer or the brands themselves I think the more successful you can be so by this I would mean not only internal Sort of closer to home but actually the total business how do you engage the total business around that vision? Um beyond not just marketing but commercial or the other functions that perhaps um you work with every day and of course There are key sponsors and stakeholders who've probably set the vision but really engaging them around sort of the the marketing Element of that is really really key as well as the external audience. So really building the reputation externally As well and then also doing this with a real sense of boldness that um if we Can't engage an organization around the vision and The marketing agenda then um, I think it would be quite hard to sort of keep going ourselves at it so I would always encourage be brave be bold and um sort of really Um Live the the vision that you're setting. So a couple of examples here um when I was from when I was at Robert's bakery um, we had to relaunch we relaunched the brand at a time quite radically actually and um, one of the things that we we were very very cash strapped. We didn't have too much money, but we really um believed in trying to do things differently Um and trying to cut through and we launched we we knew we had to launch this new vision to the business um, but without much money and without much space actually to get the whole business um, sort of uh In one place at one time We came up with this idea that we would do this from the side of the lorry a lorry And it was one of those lorries where you can pull the curtain back and you can see that there And all the money we had we invested in some amazing kit. Um huge screen Um and sound system and we literally gathered people to the side of that lorry and I would love to have played the video for you today of that Of how we engaged um that total business in doing that but um, unfortunately that doesn't work very well with the webinar So we've um, we've had to not show that um, but I'm sure I can share it if anyone else would like to see at that point So that was just a way of engaging people in a really different way the middle section here You can see this is just uh, I think a great way to try to demonstrate how bold We were at that time in engaging the external audience and This we went to um an awards um evening where we were up for a big award and We just launched um a new product which was the first um bread skew ever to be launched in recyclable paper And we really wanted to make our point about that and so we decided it was a black tie event But every single one of these people agreed to doing this will be made our costumes out of those bread paper bags And you can see me here wearing a bread paper bag skirt And lots of these other people with bread paper bag bowtie, waistcoats, handbags, masks, um, and you can see that when you go and do that You do make quite a splash and we ended up right on the front of the homepage here of the um the bia at that time Attracting um attention for the business and the brand and really leading as we meant to go on from the front And the third section here, which we used to do we have this just idea one day of um getting these sort of temporary tattoos and the idea really being about us wearing the brand and we used to take these stencils to both internal events and external events and um, we used to sort of see this as a way of just really publicizing the brand either internally or externally so and hopefully just a couple of examples of how you can really Engage people in really different ways that um I think um get get you noticed in in an organizational outside The second area is all around getting creative and as market is I think sometimes we take for granted. We are creative if we aren't Creative in the in the classical sense of I'm no artist by any means but we usually have creative minds and creative mindsets and one of the observations I've had all the way through the years of um being involved in in transformations is that we can use our creativity to problem solve but to bring fun challenge and also to influence and most importantly beyond marketing so Taking our creativity out into the wider organization is a great way to bring about that influence It's a great way to network. Um, you're doing something for other people But in return you might always ask for 15 or 20 minutes on their agenda To talk about the vision and what they can do to help that vision move along So cover three examples again here. The first is an initiative in in pizza cousins where um, this is more of a um an hr initiative around launching More of um refreshed values But through that we really want to instig it'll bring about a lot more sort of a culture of More continuous feedback and we have this idea that we would therefore become the feedback fairies This is me dressed as a feedback fairy and um, we basically ran almost like a speed dating style of feedback with lots of different groups in the organization which are nothing to do with marketing. They might be in the supply chain or the operation and um, this was obviously Encouraging that culture of feedback, but obviously gave us presents and network opportunities and opportunities to talk to That those groups of people as well about the marketing agenda the middle one is um Gonna look very very strange and actually it is a quite unique idea and it isn't my own So it's from um a book called the Pirates Inside which Adam Morgan wrote And you may have also read it's very focused on challenger brands But here's the point really in and this was If you know one of the best symbols of bringing a consumer to life in an organization is go and get a mannequin and dress them up as your target consumer and get them present in your organization and um, as you can imagine, this is a very strange idea Um, especially when I've got two mannequins in my garage at home and my husband was really wondering what Merth I was doing with these but um and then dressing them as our target consumer was pretty interesting as well But we literally then did place them around the organization We got whole organization focused on at this time. Um, this target consumer was called next gen jemma She was a millennial and we wanted people very focused on who we were serving And the best thing about mannequins is you can pick them up And you can cart them around with you to lots of different places. So um, we were Very very keen to always have her present and here she is actually sitting in the chairman's seat Um, as he walked into the office one day, we had her sitting there and he luckily had a very good sense of humor um, and um, you know, that was a little bit of fun as well And the third one was very much around some things I used to do way back actually in kimmy clark and You know, we were creatively trained and we used to run creative sessions And I ran a very dry creative session on cost saving with an operations team But again the opportunity for networking for Bringing the marketing agenda forward is is really really important. That was another great way to be using our marketing skill sets The third is all around staying pragmatic and flexible And I think really what I mean about here. This is that as marketing is we can have these wonderful visions that are truly You know inspiring our inspirational and really really motivating But I think at times of change as well We can sometimes get a little bit stuck in our ivory towers on those and become a bit puristic so For me the advice here is ditching the ivory tower to make some progress and that doesn't mean completely ditching it It means stepping out of that to become slightly more pragmatic knowing our strategic boundaries But also knowing what you can compromise on so creating those win-win opportunities that serve the strategic agenda overall but Do mean that you make some progress and one of the examples i'm going to share here is that when I was really struggling to to get this idea moving in terms of how we could combine those two agendas and so I made up this word Which is practical and um, hopefully you've already guessed What that means is that when you've got a very tactically focused organization that really only wants to think about tomorrow and maybe volume versus value or maybe a promotions led environment that you're trying to make some headroom with On by driving a brand Then actually, um, I really developed this word as a bit of a signal for all of us to be able to use that If someone came up with the tax initiative, how could we do that and help the business? But actually do it on the strategic agenda. So this word's practical embraces all of that and there's a couple of um outside Sort of examples here that you can see from other businesses that I'll leave you to To look at more deeply perhaps afterwards But again, um in the spirit of just trying to share a couple of tools And this is a very very straightforward tool that essentially um is Is um, I guess the next size of just so we're going to put the light back on again It's just an exercise of laying out and being clear of your strategic priorities on the left on the right understanding that tactical business need So um in this example, which is totally made up because I couldn't share anything for confidential reasons of the past but um, you know, you might have a brand that is premium Italian and all about good coffee But the tactical business need is essentially we need a retailer specific skew That's a good deal. Um, that is blue and um, you know to try to find that Stractical sweet spot is really what I'm encouraging here And the example here is okay to have an adulterator one-off exclusive that meets both of those needs That won't compromise the strategic agenda overall So that's what Stractical is all about The fourth is all about pacing yourself and I think um, you know, there's there's everybody will understand that saying It's it's a marathon not a sprint But I think in particularly stubborn businesses that really don't want to change or have or finding change very difficult um, you know, it's always trying to remember that this will take some time and Being really clear on expectations of timing that it might take x amount of years Setting some really clear milestones and and really celebrating those when you when you meet them and it's 85 effort rule has been um widely discussed and written about by Greg McEwen But I think the point here is not give 85 percent time or effort but more just about actually making sure you're working really smartly so that You don't exhaust yourself in trying to get that transformation agenda moving and really thinking about So how you pace yourself for the long term to get that job done The fifth is really all around finding identifying these champions advocates and influencers and Identifying and then working them hard and I'll say that With a big smile on my face because I'm very open about that with people. I'm asking to also partner with With me on those agendas And I think the key thing here is identifying those influences They may be formal or informal and the context I shared earlier to the different businesses I've worked in have surprised me sometimes in terms of the way that the stakeholder or influencer network might differ You know some of those businesses are very subjective And so the last person you'd expect to have the greatest influence does And trying to really find those people and observe Is really really important And then using your extended network within the business or even outside Is really important to gain that help And always establishing that win win mentality too So a great example here is a long time ago now when I was working in the global duix team And we were trying to set a new direction for the brand and we were trying to do exactly this Lead with the consumer and the brand more strongly in a very sales driven environment And one of the things I had to do really was um, you know Find an influential partner in doing this and I found this in in the french team And they were exceptionally credible very well respected actually by the rest of the organization the other local markets And but they were very particular as well about what they wanted and we were bringing forward a different kind of advertising Vehicle and they were very specific about what they wanted on the end frame and in the end I felt it was more important to compromise with that. So it's sort of an 85 15 compromise To really get that french team on board which they did Then get on board and from there they then did the heavy lifting of wanting everybody else to use that advertising vehicle And they helped me no end with convincing other markets to do that So I think that's a good example. Hopefully of how you can really get those partners working for you If you can identify them And the last is, you know, this is tongue-in-cheek, but there will always be pirates So expect them and when I say pirates like I say it is very tongue-in-cheek I don't think anybody's purposely ever trying to derail an agenda but lots of people for lots of different reasons are in different stages of how how willing they are to embrace that transformation agenda And for lots of reasons people might not want to they don't know how to Or it represents some kind of challenge or threat for them So the key I think here is to spot them And really try to understand why they might Not be so up for it And then really take those steps to try to move towards them try to Get some common understanding and understand what's important for them And again creating those win-win agendas And I think trying to find points to help them shine as well Help them shine in the agenda that you're trying to drive and create And also asking for help either from other people But perhaps even as openly as with them themselves. So Um, I think there there are many specific examples probably that I can't share Specifically, but they are my my top tips around parts. And I think the key thing is always Expect them and move towards them if you can So that is me drawing to a close in summary then I think in business transformation Marketing is often at the heart of any change Especially if a business is trying to move towards a consumer or customer centric model And transformation does bring many opportunities for marketing, but also some challenges Um, a big big point here is about getting your marketing house in order first I think is really really key so that you can then go on and Beyond functional marketing and influence further So, um, I've talked about all of those uh, those six points around engagement Getting creative and using your creative skills beyond marketing to influence Staying pragmatic pasting yourself And finding your champions advocates and influencers and working them really really hard And watching out for those pirates and trying to bring them closer rather than push them away from you And above all I'd say really do try and enjoy any transformation ride It is quite a hard work and it is challenging, but I do think it's exceptionally fulfilling as well If you have any further questions beyond the q&a today, um, this is where I am I'm um on linkedin. That's my public URL And I'm happy to help do reach out if you'd like to or contact me And I think then now we are over to q&a Brilliant. Thank you so much Megan. That was absolutely fantastic and really really insightful We have had Some questions and there are still some kind of coming in at the moment. So just looking at some of the um First questions that we had in were more on the practical side of things So one of the questions was can you recommend any reading or courses on creativity? Gosh, yes, I can now. Um I mean, I think it's it's interesting as it because creativity I think can be taught I think a lot of people say that you have it or you don't well, maybe if you're Um trying to be a um a fine art student You've got to have some some I think you've got to have some sort of tendency towards that But I think creatively creativity can be taught I When I was taught about creativity, it was with an agency called what if and I was Classically trained in creativity by them. Um Now, I know they are still around. I don't know if they're still doing those training courses But um, certainly they do have some really great books Um around creativity um written by what if um, so it's what if but I think a question mark an exclamation mark And I'm still really advocate them and actually I meet many marketers today who were also trained at that time By what if and I think using their processes are really good They I think it is quite straightforward. So if you it can only get hold of the book yourself Um, then I think you can teach yourself that there's some great tools and techniques in there and really practical applications of that as well Fantastic, thank you And one of the other questions in a similar vein was what strategic models or tools Do you recommend for use throughout business transformation? Yes, I mean, I think you know what's really interesting is I tend to have just developed and keep um Sort of moving on my own really because I think um, and I knew I knew I did Put all in here actually But it's other thing. It's almost like a whole nother webinar because it's quite it's quite um complicated or long to discuss Um, I mean there obviously if you wanted to do some formal training I was lucky enough to go to ashore's business school and there are they do run some amazing You know a couple of days there in um strategic business tools Um, and you know that's something perhaps you could ask an organization to sponsor you in and those tools were excellent in that You really do take out a series of tools with them And there are lots of other partners. I work with as well in the field Um, and I can most definitely put people in contact with them if you would like um after this Two or three very very good strategic partners that I've worked with who have tools But the things I would say probably is that most of those are the same tools and a lot of those tools The way I like to think about it is tools around the where to play And then tools around the how to win and the where to play is really all about can you get that vision formed? can you um identify your Leavers for growth in how you are going to set the vision for for growth for It is consumer or customer based into your brand levers and Can you understand what that side of opportunity is and most of that is the where to play And then the how to play is really about against that strategy. How are you going to? activate to deliver that and Classically that might use something as straightforward as a 4p model Which we're all familiar with and particularly. I'm sorry if that's very FMCG, but that is essentially Using lots of the activation tools to deliver that strategy Or the tools of mental availability or physical availability The other one I really could recommend to everybody for some reading would if you haven't read this before is a book called How Brands Bro by Byron Sharp That's been around about 10 years what I love about that book is it is scientifically proven Principles that you know, it's basically base. It's based on statistical modelling So it's pretty hard to argue and I think it's a really great Sort of book to read to to get some guiding strategic principles from if you're interested Fantastic, thank you We've had a few pirate related questions. So I'm going to try and Put them into one question because they were there's a few of them and they were asking What's the best way to deal with those that are Perhaps a little bit resistant to change and on the basis that It's unlikely to get everybody on board what would be The best way to Deal with the percentage of those on board. Would you be looking at a particular percentage of having The workforce behind you or those that you're trying to convince And look at perhaps any more than 60 70 percent or is there a case of Where do you stop putting the effort in because you know, you're not going to get 100 of pirates perhaps to Support you with the with the change. So they were just asking what What do you do with those that are Resistance change and at what point do you kind of consider it successful that you've kind of converted the majority who were initially resistant Yeah, I mean, I think here it is exactly that point. You need the majority Because otherwise you can't move the agenda forward. So you do need the majority Um, I mean, I've never really put a percentage on that. I think you get a sense, don't you? Of whether you are feeling as though you have enough people On board or whether you've got to work harder at that I would definitely say you will never get a hundred percent And so I would almost go as far to say you almost like that each five percent rule again Perhaps don't try to get them all except there will be some pirates always try and work hard on them Um, but sometimes you won't get everybody. I think the key is you must get the majority So I guess the 70 30 perhaps would be the right place to go Those who are particularly stubborn I think there's some that You don't really mind you can have a healthy debate with they're never going to be convinced, but they're actually Not going to do too much damage I think what you've really got to focus on are the people who either have a very influential voice who are very um, who really are not not for their converting or and people who are very influential with Sponsors that you need to Continue to support you on the journey that you're going on So and then I think you've got to really start to break those people down. Perhaps there's five of them And really start to try very different ways in and tactics But actually you might need to enlist some help as well Not only from those key influencers that you heard about me talking about with the french Duex example, but actually maybe some really senior people in the organization as well So I've got to do the light again and some really senior people in the organization as well Who are sponsors of this program? and um, obviously that needs to be done with exceptional care because What you don't want to do is um to start any kind of sense of a tale tale And sort of mentality or culture, but I think asking for support Is always a good thing to do And and asking for support of other people who can perhaps influence on your behalf Um, because sometimes it not coming the message not coming from marketing is also very very powerful So, um, hence if you build that network out and you start to build some great relationships with other people Who can then do that job on your behalf to some degree? Um, that can really save you a lot a lot of pain and move you to a greater majority. Hopefully Amazing, thank you. And I think we we may be able to fit one more quick question in. Um, and this one is, um From somebody who has got a a big project at work and They're trying to they've had some delays with it. They're trying to rebuild the momentum and excitement and have asked Are there any tips for um when the trust or confidence is is lost trying to rebuild that trust and confidence? Yeah, well, you know, um Probably I would I would really think about do you punctuate that a bit more formally and say, okay That's been quite challenging. We've got to this point. We still believe in the long term um, so let's have a kind of a quick time out and let's hear all the pain around the room about what's what's feel what's feeling quite hard actually And let and that gives you some amazing feedback then to go and build again And then I would actually almost do a sort of mini relaunch of it again internally Once you've done that and of course we good at that. We know how to do that So how do you sort of go again and say right look we've caused correct a little bit here because that was we were finding that duty we've listened to the feedback here's um Now where I think we probably could go with a few tweaks that obviously is still on the vision of what you've got to do and To really signpost and signal that You know, you might you might want to then sort of relaunch that in a in a in a way that really grabs attention to say we're going again We need full commitment. You know, this is almost phase two of that journey Um, and you know some of the pacing yourself comes in to that problem a little bit. I think where Um, you know, you might have to acknowledge there's a milestone there Acknowledge the great achievement and successes, but acknowledge some things aren't quite working at this point and better to do that I think than keep continuing On a on a journey that practice feeling hard work for everybody Great. Thank you, Megan. Really appreciate you taking the time to answer those questions as well as lots of Great questions coming in. We've also had some really really lovely feedback as well saying That the presentation was amazing and thanking you. Um, so just wanted to share that as well Um, but unfortunately, um, that's it for our webinar today And I would like to thank Megan once again and also the cim northwest group for organizing the webinar So that just leaves me to say a final thank you to you for joining us today We hope you've enjoyed the webinar. Take care everyone. Have a lovely summer and we look forward to seeing you again in september