 I'm an explorer. I'm exploring. Okay. Yeah. I think it's too much responsibility to be called an innovator. We are here at the LinkedIn studios in the Empire State Building, and I'm here with Marie Goulammeurle, and I'm going to say it my way, but you're going to have to tell me how it really is saying. It's fine, whatever you like, Nadia. I've been here five years and with so many pronunciations. As long as people can understand my French accent, I'm fine. I can understand it perfectly, and I love it. So Marie is not only the CMO of Calvin Klein, but now has taken on another role at the parent company. You're also the chief digital officer of both Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger. Yes, I am. So Marie, what's top of mind for Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger right now? There is one which is hyper personalization and what it means to unify personalization from product to loyalty to memberships to your online experience, your story experience, and it sounds quite easy when I'm saying it like this. It's a lot of stitching and it's a lot of behind the scenes. That's why having two jobs is useful. And I'm super excited by voice. I think it's going to disrupt how consumers choose brands and products, how they prefer brands and products. The discovery piece is going to be trickier for brands to emerge, especially when you're in visual industries like fashion or beauty. We know images. We know videos. And we're still learning videos. By the way, we can talk about that. We're going to have to learn voice. What's the voice of Calvin Klein? I'm not going to make a sexy voice right now. Not now. It's a serious video. So the expression of a brand through voice. More than just find me the latest pair of jeans. How do I discover and love a brand through voice before other players use voice to work on brand preference? So that's what I'm working on. Because you are so innovative. I don't think I am. You don't think so? No. Everybody thinks you are. No, I think I'm an explorer. I'm exploring. OK. Yeah. There is too much responsibility to be an innovator. All right, so you're exploring voice. You're stitching everything together at every single touch point of the customer journey behind the scenes. And you're responsible for the outward branding of Calvin Klein. What is it that you love the most about that? I love that it's a 50-year-old brand that everybody knows the brand, like 90% awareness. Many brands would kill to get 90% awareness. But it's also a brand that has to adapt to new ages. It's a brand that was mastering print and outdoor. And a certain type of body sizes, for instance. So I'm very excited by the exploration of diversity when it comes to body expression, self-expression, outside of traditional media. And that's what I'm spending a lot of time on. So we just had our D&I Council meeting here two nights ago. And so we thank you. And I missed it. You missed it. But thank you for doing what you're doing, because it's such important work. Yes. What do you think our big challenges are in the industry right now? So I keep getting that question around brand and performance. How do you make choices between your brand investments, your performance investments? It's a tricky question, because it's creating silos within organizations. It's opposing teams. It's opposing budgets. I'm really not comfortable having two buckets, two teams. And what I've been doing has been to merge the teams. So they work on one consumer journey. Going back to unification of the consumer experience. OK. So any tips or tricks you're learning while you're doing that? Don't have two teams. They're going to fight over budgets. The conversion team, the performance team, will use the fact that they have higher ROI. And the brand teams will talk about elevation of the brand. So I would say tip number one, have one team. Tip number two, use data as the neutralizer. And do not get into emotional debates between the two sides of the consumer journey. And maybe tip number three, upskill the teams. So the performance side of the team knows about the brand. And the brand team understands data and what it means to drive this last click. OK, so speaking of upskilling, you've been a huge champion of training and development and performance improvement for all of your team. But what about you? What's a great career tip that you've heard or have shared in your path? So the best advice I got was 10 years ago by one of the greatest mentors in brand marketing. He said to me, come to work every day as if it is your first day at work. Don't ever get comfortable. Try to learn from the others. Continue to learn and unlearn. Learn from your teams. You're not just there to guide your teams. You're also here to receive from your teams. So I'm trying to be uncomfortable and learn and never settle for any sorts of state of school. And know you never do because you're such an explorer. Well, Mary, thank you so much for joining us today and thank you for joining us on top of mind.