 We're still the breakfast and plus TV Africa, well 24 Nigerians have filed a lawsuit against the independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, for failing to give them another 7 million Nigerians adequate time and opportunity to complete their voter registration after they have carried out registration online. The plaintiffs who are suing for themselves and on behalf of 7 million other Nigerians are seeking to complete the registration process so they can obtain their Permanent Voters card, the previous's, and exercise their right to vote. INEC had recently revealed that out of 10 million 487 thousand 972 Nigerians who carried out their pre-registration online, only 3 million 444 thousand 378 completed the process at a physical centre. It represents 32% of completed online registration. At the Federal High Court in Abuja the plaintiffs are seeking an order of mandamus to direct and compel INEC to reactivate its continuous voter registration exercise to allow the plaintiffs to complete their registration and collect their Permanent Voters card as a PVC. They are also arguing that the inability to complete the registration is entirely due to factors outside of their control. We have Justice Umuigwu, he's a legal practitioner, human rights lawyer right here in Lagos. Thanks for joining us. Unfortunately, we're unable to have Faisal Sokoye who hasn't been able to get him to answer his phone. Good morning. Good morning. So my question is what do you make of the situation? I mean 24 Nigerians who have actually filed a suit against INEC and the reasons that they have given is that they have not been allowed to complete their voter registration. I mean the circumstances surrounding it is outside of their control. Well, I would say that we actually progress and in democracy this is the kind of thing you get is the kind of thing you see. For me, I think it was a good attempt. I align myself with those people that are going to come to seek redress. The law or the rule is that at any time your right is about to be free down or has been free down or likely to be free down, you can go to court to seek for a redress. So it is okay. It is a good one in a good direction. Alright, Justice Uegwu, you've said it's a good law in a good direction, a good step rather than a good direction. But what about the fact that the Independent National Electoral Commission have given me a reason. So what they've said is that they can't spend the entire time between now and the election working on the voter's register. They need to also have some time to complete the process and prepare for the election ahead. This is an explanation that's been given several times by INEC, especially through the National Commissioner of Information and Voter Education who has been here on this program several times. Does that not make any meaning to you? No, it's not as if it does not make any meaning, but the truth is this, you see INEC ought to have started this whole process on time. Nothing stops INEC to have started this thing earlier before the time they did, knowing the antigens of Nigeria and also knowing that we have a huge population in this country. So as far as I'm concerned, it is their duty to make sure that things are done, appropriately. In fact, like I keep on saying that things are done when it's supposed to be done and it's supposed to a larger scale satisfy every Nigerian that is legible to vote. So yes, INEC has come up with one excuse or the other, but should they continue giving excuses at every given time? And the answer is no. Now if that is not done, do you know how many Nigerians there will be different choice in the forthcoming election? We're supposed to have gone past this. In fact, if the INEC server or every other thing has been put in place, we will be having some of this problem, they launch a technology outfit for a station and all the way. But as I speak to you, most of these media are not working. Nigerians get frustrated on daily basis. Some of Nigerians that are even doing it manually visiting the INEC offices are just going to various INEC offices and see the frustration. But Justice Huebu, will you agree? Will you agree with those who are saying that a lot of Nigerians waited until the last minute to rush to go do the fiscal capturing? INEC began this exercise, this continuous voter registration in June 2021. And finished just some weeks ago. That's about one year. One year not enough for people to complete their fiscal capturing? Well, the truth is that it is immaterial whether people went late. The most important thing is that before the end of the exercise, people troops have a match. So the question we should be asking ourselves today, do INEC actually have the capacity, the manpower capacity to have satisfied every Nigerian that come out to come and do this exercise? And the answer is no. So that is just the thing, whether it was a rush hour or not, because immaterial. They ought to have envisioned this, know that Nigerians, that's why I say that Nigerians, we have our peculiarity. People always come out, like you said, during the rush hour and the other. But that doesn't make meaning. People have been prepared for this, knowing that this is what they are going to be. I've seen one of the centers, INEC centers in Imo State, no worry. And what I saw, my brother, I almost shed tears that day. Come and see how security agents were bullying people. People who go to INEC office from 6 a.m. at times, 5 a.m. and stay there until 7 p.m. Nothing is being done. I know what I'm saying. I witnessed this myself. I tried to move around and monitor some of these things. So let us not blame Nigerians. They must have the capacity to do the needful. So one would be wondering if the capacity to do the needful, it's also time-bound. At a time where, I mean, speaking with Festus Okoye, he's also mentioned that there were times prior to the closing of the process entirely. You would have just one person who would show up. And so what if the capacity of INEC that they have is within the time frame to ensure that you have a time, not that you have, you know, people rushing and pressuring the entire process and system. Now, we're still saying this something. If people were rushing and pressuring the entire system, what is INEC supposed to have done? Is it not to add up to their capacity or manpower? I mean, for me, they don't have any excuse. At times you go to an INEC office, you see only one or two officials there attending to hundreds of people. What are we saying? I thought by now we should have gone past some of these things by now. I mean, it is so unfortunate. I witnessed it personally. I'm not saying what somebody told me. I said I witnessed it personally. In fact, if you want me to be specific, I visited the INEC office at Emo State over the municipal council inside the municipal council. What I saw, I was sharing with you that day. Barrister, when was this? That was about two months ago. So we're looking at June 2000 or July 2022? Yeah, this year. So were you part of those who started the process online and then went to now do the fiscal capturing or was your entire process? No, I didn't go online. I personally went there to do my own earlier and now for another. But everybody will not be justice. So were you attended to justice? Were you attended to? Were you able to get your vote? Yes, I was attended to. But I would have to tell you that it wasn't so easy for me. So what you saw was the last minute search which INEC has been talking about. This process has been on since June 2021 and ended in July 2022. You went there in July 2022. And I mean, for instance, if you go to the banks, if you were even the banks that have 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 20 people, it would still be the same. So you saw the last minute rush. Well, like what I said, I saw the last minute rush. But I want to tell you something. You see, most times we should stop making excuses for one reason or the other. As far as I'm concerned, like I've said it and as they mentioned it, INEC ought to have known that there is going to be last minute rush and not landing, ought to have been prepared for it. That is what I'm saying. For example, if you get to some of these centers, at times they would tell you, well, like for example, there were some centers that were opened outside their normal office. For example, let me give you an example. That was a center that was, because that period I was telling you, I traveled to the east. You see, there was a center that was open somewhere, the most in university, you know, for people to come and do the needful and all that. But most times when you go there, you don't see the officials. And it wasn't only there. Some other areas, if something happened. And you know, in Nigeria, most times when people are suddenly willing, especially of serving the public, you know, I don't know the way they reason, especially within that period. The way they behave, the way they talk, and even the manner they address people becomes a different thing in Thailand because they feel, you know, they feel you need them. And therefore, not that this exercise is for the benefit of everybody, including INEC officials themselves. They are all Nigerians. So this issue of early, late hour rush or non-late hour rush, for me, it is immaterial. I mean, we're hoping that, you know, we're looking at the judgment and the statement or the case that's been filed and the fact that they are seeking, you know, asking that they be given an opportunity to complete the voter registration. They are saying that whatever happened is out of their control. Do you believe that this is entirely out of their control? I mean, we know that there's been education, awareness, some sort of campaign that's been going on by INEC, you know. Would you say that this is really because, I mean, this particular statement is not very clear, so vague. When you say it's out of your control, they haven't really stated exactly what they mean by out of their control. What factors are we talking about here now? Unfortunately, we can't have Festus. I mean, Festus is not here, so he can actually answer some of this. But do you think that this entirely, you know, the fault of INEC that 7 million persons plus, or they're about, have not been able to complete, you know, the registration process? Well, I see that when they say out of their control, I have to agree with them because now there was an exercise, and people took out a mask, forget whether it was any hour lunch or late hour lunch. But the most important is that people were on ground to do this exercise, and INEC was not able to attend to them. So it was out of their, it was not their own fault because they were on ground as of this time. So that's what I'm called. And again, we were talking about education, enlightenment and all the rest. Let me ask you a question. Where has our national orientation agencies, where have they gone to sleep? In every local government in Nigeria, there is enough space of national orientation agency trying to reach, you know, the localities, the villages to give people orientation and all the rest. Are they still working till today? The answer is no. How many people today in Nigeria? You see, when we are talking about some of these things, let us leave the end links out of it. Let's talk about the masses. The masses, the poor masses in our localities, the marketry men, the granite sellers and all the rest. Do they have knowledge of some, who said this in certain sense last week? But I am, I tell you, I'm a Nigerian, I live here, I know what I'm saying. There are many people who may not have been aware of this issue of enlightenment education you're talking about. What is the medium for you to get this enlightenment or this education? Is it either the television or the radio station? Barista, Barista, I don't know if I am allowed to disagree with you, that many people were not aware. Well, you have your opinion. Yes, because this procedure has been on before now, from June 2021 up until July 2021. What I may say, and I want you to critique this, is that people began to be hopeful to say, ah, we're not going to vote, we're not interested in this election. Now we're interested because as somebody from a part of the country who stands a chance, then people woke up. Some will say that's the gospel truth, including those who say they don't believe in elections, they don't believe in what elections to hold. In their part of the country, you know, woke up and said, oh, wait, oh, we have a chance. Let's go and register. It was too late till too late. Now they're blaming INEC. What do you say to that school of thought? Well, the truth is that I don't see it that way. My brother, the truth is that, like I said, you are a Nigerian, I'm a Nigerian, we all live in Nigeria. Like you said, you are entitled to your opinion. It's a school of thought, I'm just throwing at you to get your opinion. Yeah, yeah, I'm coming. Yeah, yeah. Let's go about the opinion. Answering your question to that particular school of thought, I don't agree to that. Listen, the truth is this, Nigerians are more politically conscious now than before. And the reason is because of what the present administration has taught Nigerians. In fact, they have opened the eyes of Nigerians. Today, every person in Nigeria has become a politically motivated person. Nobody likes what is happening in the country. One way or the other, everybody is involved. So directly or indirectly, we are all involved. So it's not a matter of because somebody came from one side of the country or the other side of the country. Is it only people from that side of the country or that side of the region that are clamoring for this? The answer is no. So for me, I see that Nigerians have become more conscious of their environment and the election now. Because what is happening in this country today, in this administration, has never happened in the history of Nigeria before. The poverty rate in this country now has gone that Nigerians are no longer sure if they wake up the next morning and see food on their table. Who will be happy? So that is the truth. Forget about this school of thought or non-school of thought. Those things are political gimmicks. We really say that they are political gimmicks because if you look at it, it feels like Nigerians have always been in the culture. You have said that we have a style that is peculiar to us. I really don't understand what that means because it feels like we're not always on the other side of doing the right things. You say that we're all part of the issue. We're all part of it. It affects everybody. But would you say that Nigerians have been acting the part of being politically aware? I mean, it's okay to say, hey, we're politically aware, we understand what's going on. But have they been really responsible with your actions as we're head towards the elections in 2023? And if you look at the economy generally, have Nigerians been taking responsibility to ensure that we build this nation and move the country forward with their actions every other time, with little things as respecting the traffic light and paying taxes? Have Nigerians, you know, lived up to the expectation? Have they been playing the part really? Oh, we're just waking up and we're saying, hey, we have a candidate. I really don't know if that's the case. But I'd like to share your thoughts on this one. And do you think that this is the kind of energy with this attitude? Because it's an attitude thing that you have said it feels like it's very peculiar to us. It's our thing. And so we're accepting it as a norm that we don't have regard for time, including ceremonies. I mean, casual ceremonies that have no, you know, consequence. But how many times do people show up, you know, to their different meetings and what have you at the time that they're supposed to report to? These are the issues we're talking about. And that has trickled to affecting, you know, the entire registration process. We're hoping that there will be very detailed with the issue. So we have INEC also responding to it on the other hand. We understand that, you know, it's not an entirely perfect system. But we can't just shift the buck, you know, to one part. And then we think that that's okay. Well, as far as I'm concerned, we don't have a choice than to a sort of press on INEC to do the effort to make sure that every Nigerian is satisfied. Let me tell you one thing. You know, we talked about regularity as Nigerians believing up to their duties and all the rest. Yeah, I have to tell you the other truth. The problem we are having in this country today is that Nigerians, the people, the masses don't even trust the government because there is a disconnect between the government and the people. We say power belongs to the people. But in Nigeria, the power actually belongs to the people. In a country where the executive or the people in power do whatever they want or they feel they want to do without minding the public opinion, the general opinion, the totality of the interests of the people. What are we saying? We are Nigerians. We see what is happening. Let me tell you, when there is good governance, every citizen will comply. When the head is sick, definitely the whole body will be sick. But when the head is right, definitely the whole body will be right. So the disconnect is between the people and the government. And let me tell you, Nigerians are disappointed. And that is why this 2023, because of what has happened in the past few years in this administration, every Nigerian wants to be included now. That is what we call inclusive government. People wants to be carried along. People wants to know what is happening. Because the people are feeling disappointed. That is why you see this thing happening. Now, whether it is late hour rush or whatever, I have tried to define that as far as I'm concerned. For me, there is nothing like late hour rush. The issue is this. As I said, the time you are calling late hour rush, where people are on the ground to do what they are supposed to do or what they want to do. The answer is yes. So for me, we should go back and look at ourselves. The government should go back and look at themselves. Have they been able to get it right? Let me tell you, another thing is this. We talk about the people, the people, the people. We don't talk about the responsibility of the government to the masses. We always talk about the responsibility of the masses to the government. What is the government doing for the masses that will energize them, that will interest them? You talk about paying taxis. You pay taxes. What is the taxis being used for? Every Nigerian is a stakeholder in this country. Because it is our common goal and our common resources that they are using to run this country. You come out, there is no light, nothing is working, nothing is functioning. By expecting to take from the people. Let's look at this. Also the fact that, because you are a lawyer, so you are well poised to answer this question. I like started the online processes, the registration and all that. For this CVR, Continuously Registration, in June 2021. It proceeded then to now allow Nigerians to go physical capturing those who are online. And also those who wanted to do their physical registration. In fact, those who studied online should have had an advantage because they are already ahead of the curve. The exercise ended in July in June 2021, 22. And INEC was taken to court. The court ordered that the CVR be extended to July 2022 from June to July, to which INEC complied. Now having had a court decision saying INEC extend the CVR to July 2022 instead of July 2021. Stretch it to June 2022, stretch it to July 2022. Having complied with this kind of court. I want to give you a legal opinion now. Can a court order a further extension? Of course, the court has the powers to order a further extension. Looking at the whole scenario, vis-à-vis the applicants, prayers and maybe one of the respondents who have to respond. Being on the reasons of the other bad. After the courts has the powers to undo what has been done. So it is the law. So a further question for you. How much longer will be necessary in your opinion? One month, two months? Three months? Election is in February? Yes, we are looking at February for the election. For me, it's just that we don't have, for me, I look at the whole scenario. At times we don't have a good technical system to manage some of this. We look at what deliverance we are having. We look at the card reader issue and all the rest. In fact, whatever you look at it, in the rural areas and all the rest. Some of these things don't even work that side. And that is why for me, even election is by February. If I make up the capacity, they can extend this to at least November. It doesn't take anything. It is an issue of technology. So are you going to say without any doubt that all the 7 million persons, because of course we have a total of 12.2 million who have been newly registered. 12.2 million. Every million are part of those who could not do the online and then go to the fiscal. But if you add the 3 million out of the 10 that did online, plus the 8 million plus that did fiscal, it becomes 12 million. Are you convinced beyond reasonable doubt that if we extend this to July, like you're asking for, that all these 7 million plus individuals, 7 million 43,594 will get their registration completed fiscally. Yes, I feel even if they have the capacity and they improve or increase their manpower capacity, both technological and all the rest, it can be done. After some of these things are done, they are computerized. It's not supposed to be... So what if I like is not able to give you that technological capacity that you're looking for and you can't get all of them done in November. What do we do? Should we extend it further? Would you like to see that? No, no. You see, there will be an end to every exercise. Even in court, there's always an end to litigation. But what we are saying is that let them do to an extent. Let me tell you, I'm not just betting 100% compliance or they're about. But does he not bother you before this time? That we have approximately about 200 million Nigerians or more than that. But at the end of the day, only about 50 million. Or they're about to decide the fate of who rules the country. Does he not bother you? Okay, so I'm sure it should bother any person. But you're saying that we can't continue this forever. You wanted to see the accident to November. But you're not sure. You don't think everyone will get registered, but there should be a line. Yes, at least. When you talk about something, and if you can get out of about 12 million, we have only about 3 million or close to 4 million. What percentage is it? Isn't it up to 70%? Isn't it up to 80%? So what are we talking about? Why be realistic here? Justice Wang, thank you so much. I mean, we appreciate you and your time this morning on the show, but we have to go because we're really, really out of time. Thank you very much. It is my pleasure once more. Alright, then we look forward to sharing your thoughts on several national issues. That's the size of it. This morning we take a break. When we return, we'll be looking at more interesting issues with us.