 public support and everybody. Good morning. I'd like to welcome you all. Thank you so much for coming to discuss this extremely important topic with us today. I'm Catherine Bell from Quartz, the global business and economics news site, and I'm here today with an absolutely tremendous panel who I will introduce in a moment. When it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, we are at a very frustrating state of affairs at the moment where we are moving forward and backward at the same time. Since we all last met in Davos, companies have made real progress pushing DEI initiatives further up their agendas and investors have started taking the S in ESG more seriously. But COVID and the more recently the war in Ukraine have really set us back. They have exacerbated inequalities and delayed progress on a number of fronts. So the global gender gap, for example, has been extended by a full generation. LGBTQI and women's rights are under intense pressure in many places. And two years after George Floyd's murder, the racial equity movement has lost some momentum. 67 billion dollars were committed by major global corporations after that and only one percent of that has been actually dispersed. So here we are. We've been hearing a lot about the outlook for the economy and that is worrying because as we all know, when the economy goes in a negative direction globally, underrepresented groups are disproportionately affected. So what we want to do is take this as an opportunity to make sure that we build in a way that is truly inclusive and that ends up in a place that's better than we were before the crisis. And so we have a fantastic group of people here from all sectors to talk about how to do that. So first we have Ilham Kadri, who is the CEO and chairman of the Executive Committee of Solve in Belgium. We have Peter Grower, who is the chairman of Bloomberg. We have Petra DeSuter, who is a deputy prime minister, also of Belgium, and also minister of public enterprises and public administration. And finally we have Nadia Murad, who is a Nobel Peace Laureate. She is the president of Nadia's initiative and the co-founder of the Global Survivors Fund. Thank you all so much for being here with us today. So Ilham, I'd like to start with you. You work in the chemical industry, which is not known as an industry in the absolute forefront of DEI initiatives. Can you talk about what your biggest challenges have been over the last couple of years and what steps you're taking to tackle them? My personal challenges. Well, the challenges that your company is facing and industry is facing. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. And yeah, I'm indeed very proud to represent the industry and the chemical industry. Well, first of all, I'm here probably because I'm a pure product of inclusion and diversity and equality, right? And I'll start by saying, if I can do it, everybody can do it, right? And it started by my upbringing by my grandmother, illiterate grandmother, who raised me. I was born and lived in, raised in Morocco for 17 years in a very frugal home where sustainability started at home. And she taught me one thing. In Africa, we say for young girls that you have two exits in your life. The first one is from your father's home to your husband's home. So we are all asked to make a good marriage and be a good wife and good mother, learn how to cook, et cetera. And the second exit was to the grave. My grandmother illiterate said, well, this is not sexy, isn't it? So she asked all the girls of the family to find their third exits. Mine was education, as simple as that. So I'm passionate about technology. I'm a scientist and humanist. And you know, I abuse of mentoring. I found great mentors, many, many men, by the way, mentors along my career. And I took some trains. So it comes with you first, right? And after when you climb the ladder, obviously, it's not easy in all continents. I lived in the four continents, in America, in Japan, in Middle East. I worked in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I am now back in Europe. It's not easy. And it's universal. It's sobering. You're right when you talk about the statistics. So at Solvay, and I joined, I'm leading this 160-year-old lady since now three years and a half. And I was wondering, frankly, when I was trying to craft the Diversity Equality and Inclusion program, and I reflect on my career. I've been 25 years in the industry. I always failed in the DENI. I must confess it. Because, you know, the diversity is the statistic. The inclusion, I would put the I before the D. So at Solvay now, we launched what we call Solvay One Dignity, because it's about putting the dignity at the center of everything we do, regardless if we're a woman, regardless of races, ethnic, religion, sexual orientation. It was a taboo in my company. Now we have LGBTQ employee resources programs. So we really, you know, we decided to craft it around the dignity rather than, you know, pushing the statistics on diversity. Because if I leave today Solvay, and I left diversity before that, if I leave Solvay today, 99% chance that it's a white male, you know, successor, right? So we need a pipeline. We need this education. We need academia. We need policymakers. I must say now we have 48% in my senior leadership council. Young women, we are, you know, grooming them, sponsoring them, mentoring them, et cetera. And you need this education. You need to bring more and work on the unconscious bias. And I can talk more, but I will, you know, honor my 120 seconds. So Peter, the next step really from, from working with your workforce to make sure that you're doing as well as you possibly can on DEI metrics across your workforce is to really put those ideas and those values at the center of your business and the center of your business model. I know that's something that you're committed to doing at Bloomberg. Can you talk about how you're thinking about making that shift and why? Yeah. So this has been a journey that we've been on for a long time, but really formalized in April of 2014 when I said to our founder and my boss, Mike Bloomberg, that as executive chairman of the company, I was going to put a stake in the ground and really lead the charge internally. And as is the case with anyone in an institution like ours, you make some steps forward, you make a couple of steps backward and external events occur, which influence what goes on internally. But I'm fond of saying, first of all, what we are all doing from a DNI perspective, almost regardless of the application, is it's evolutionary. It's not revolutionary. These things aren't going to happen overnight. The second thing that I would say without being too articulate is that we are in a race without a finish line. This never stops. And so my mission and our mission has been to basically permeate the organization with the underlying importance of the value of inclusion in our workforce. We have about 22,000 people that work in 130 countries around the world. We are consistently every day in a war for talent. We have to be able to attract people from lots of diverse backgrounds, whether they're any underrepresented group or most that you can think of. Because what we are looking for is that unique combination of people and intellects that bring together and create a unique environment, a unique opportunity for our clients, for our product offerings. And so we're on this journey and I think all of our 22,000 employees around the world understand that diversity and inclusion is a critically important value of our firm. Number one, number two, we all have a responsibility to contribute to the best outcomes that we possibly can. And number three, that responsibility starts at the senior most level in the firm setting really the tone at the top of the organization. But all of our businesses, we have 13 separate business units. Each business leader, similar to putting together an annual operating plan, puts together a DNI strategy focused on recruiting, retention, development, and then kind of an all other category, which is give me your best idea. Let's throw the pasta against the wall, see if it sticks. If it does, we'll take that throughout the organization and really benefit more broadly than just doing it in a more narrowly focused environment. We review those plans twice a year, once when they submit them. And then in six months, we have a formal review. Our head of DNI meets with our managers literally on a monthly basis to make sure that they're on track. And if not, what can we do to make sure that they're on track? But the important thing is, as I said at the outset, everybody understands this is a critical part of our business strategy, and we've got to execute successfully to maintain our market position and do the things that we do. I would close by saying at our company, 85% of the profitability of our business goes to Mike Bloomberg's foundation. And as a consequence, it's a tremendous draw for people to come to the firm, which is why diversity inclusion is so critical to our performance. Because in the end, Mike's going to give away, for example, in the last year, he's given away over $1,700 million to a number of causes around the world. And that really drives us. But the DNI component enables us to have the best performance possible to enable us to give all that money away. Thanks, Peter. Petra, we've seen a lot of evidence that diversity and inclusion increases resilience both at the company level and in the public sector. So what can governments do to make sure that they're including DEI ideas in all of their policies so that they can create more resilient societies? Yes, I want to answer to that. And you alluded to it in the beginning. You said we're only looking at the economy. But if you talk about inclusion, diversity, you are talking about efficiency of institutions, organizations, companies and so on. So it has also an economic interest. I think we have to stress that specifically to people that do not always understand why this is important. Of course, at the level of the organization being more inclusive will create a culture where people feel safe, represented and will be happy. Whereas if they are having to work in an organization where they're not represented and I'm responsible for public administration, which means that I really want that public administration reflects the society that we are serving that we're working for. I would add that it's not enough to use quota or KPIs. How many people of this and that do we have? You'll have to take an intersectional approach, of course. I think we will maybe discuss this later. And by the way, it's difficult to use quota and find out how many people you have because we do not ask sexual orientation or even people with a handicap. It's very difficult because not all people want to disclose this. And so how are you going to increase the number of people with the disability in your organization? Now, at the policy level itself, as you ask, we really try to take that intersectional approach and to use, for instance, the principle of gender mainstreaming in the decision making that we're doing. In the COVID pandemic, we had to take a lot of decisions that affected specifically vulnerable groups in the society. We know that you talked about inequality that has increased and the pandemic was definitely one of the causes for that. So if we take measures, we have to think about what will be the effect of gender equality, for instance. We are now in our government working on a pension reform. And in that pension reform, the gender dimension is pretty important because we know that there's a lot of inequalities in pension systems if you compare men to women. So we can try to address these. And in the recovery plan, because you're all trying to reinvest after COVID and we get European money for that, we have added the dimension of gender mainstreaming there. Very specifically, every project will be also judged on its effect on gender equality. I think it's a positive way of looking at it and trying to improve policies in the work that we're doing. Your point about representation not being enough came up a lot in both the LGBTQ panel and also the disability inclusion panel that I also moderated this week, where it was such an important point that people aren't just there, but that you listen intensely to them and also that they are really involved in decision making and designing and every part of the business. We'll talk more about that. Just add a few seconds. There it is important to stress the difference between equality and equity. Maybe not everybody knows the difference. It's very important that you give the right tools to people so that they can enjoy the equality that you want to propose. For instance, for people with disabilities, if we want to recruit them in the public service, we offer them reasonable accommodations, as we call it, so that they can really do the tests with the same starting possibilities as other people without disabilities. You have to help them. This is positive action that is absolutely needed to reach that equity rather than just say, okay, we're equal. You are welcome. Everybody can do the same thing for gender equality. It's gender equity. Of course, women can enter in the public service, but if you look at the top management, 25% are women. Why is that? That's what we have to address. We've been talking about a lot of progress. At the same time, people's fundamental rights are being violated in many parts of the world. Nadia, I wanted to ask you, because you work in this area, how are these things related? How are the day-to-day discriminations that people experience in the workplace around the world related to sexual violence and other traumas that are taking place in conflict zones? Well, thank you so much for having me. Sexual violence is used as a weapon of war in conflict around the world. Right now, it is happening in Iraq, in the Democratic Republic of Congo, in Ethiopia, Colombia, Myanmar, in Ukraine, and in so many other places. Well, historically, rape and other forms of sexual violence were seen as an individual side effect of war. Now, there is a better understanding that sexual violence is used as a targeted strategy to destabilize communities, to destroy victims' lives, to dissolve the ties that bind our communities. It is important that recognizing and naming sexual violence for what it really is. It is an important first step. And now, we need to translate this understanding into coordinated international action to prevent and respond to sexual violence, support survivors, and hold perpetrators accountable, not just for terrorism, but for genocide and sexual violence. We need consistent commitments from the international community to address the root causes of gender-based violence through law and accountability. With all the devastating news we've been hearing from all of the places you just mentioned, are you seeing progress on the way that we're approaching sexual violence as an international community at all? This is very slow. What happened to me in my community, it was just eight years ago when ISIS attacked my community and they enslaved more than 6,500 women and children into sexual slavery, including myself, 11 of my sisters-in-law, five of my sisters, my nieces, my cousins. And as we speak, 2,800 women and children are still missing in captivity. I mean, there's no way that I can explain that we have made any progress in Iraq for women and children who were taken from their own homes, their own families, into sexual slavery. We were both unsold. We were repeatedly raped and tortured. And we have all the evidence to hold the perpetrators accountable. And so far we have only seen one case in Germany when last year a German court convicted an ISIS member of genocide and sexual violence. So more is needed. And that's why it is repeated. We are seeing the same pattern repeated in other places. And we have seen reports of sexual violence already coming from Ukraine. So we have failed to protect the basic human rights of women, especially in Iraq or in Afghanistan and so many other places. And you know where I came from and even here in some places in Europe, sexual violence comes with a lot of shame and stigma. And it's a taboo. You know, it's so hard for survivors to speak about it because there is no laws or institutions to support them to stand up for their rights. What do you think are the most important steps the international community needs to take to start addressing this? I think the most important thing. So I have been working with my lawyer, Mal Cloney and the UN member states for like, we worked for two years to establish the UNATA team. It's a UN team investigating in ISIS crimes in Iraq. They have all the evidence, thousands of survivors have given their testimonies and we have documentation. And ISIS did not hide its intentions of eradicating our communities, fueling their war by using women and girls for sexual violence. We have all the evidence and it is hard to heal and to recover without justice. And justice means, you know, helping perpetrators accountable, supporting survivors to have a dignified life. You know, after I escaped with thousands of other survivors from ISIS captivity, we had nowhere to go. We had to go to displacement camps. For eight years, survivors of sexual violence in Iraq are being displaced. They have no basic privacy. They don't have job opportunities, no education. How can they recover from the trauma? They have been, you know, giving their stories times and times without any justice, any progress to help them to go back to their homeland in Sinjar or to bring them to, you know, places where they can have asylum. There's only two ways to help survivors in a sustainable way, to, you know, help them to access support and justice, to go back to their homes and have a no basic services or to give them asylum in other countries. We cannot just keep them after all they have been through in displaced camps where they can't recover. The camps are, there are thousands of people in there. You know, there are journalists and other investigators. They go to them and they ask for their stories and sometimes they retraumatize them. You know, that's why I worked with the UK government and last month we launched the Murat Code, which is a guide for journalists, investigators and anyone who is working with survivors to do it in a respectful and supportive way because we should not retraumatize them. And we have shared with the government of Ukraine, with the survivors and we are hoping that, you know, they deserve more. They've been through a lot and we cannot just solve the issue of gender-based violence, conflict-related sexual violence by just, you know, we cannot just address their trauma. We have to talk about other aspects of marginalization as well. And sexual violence does not happen, you know, on a vacuum. So, Nadia, you've talked about involving survivors in rebuilding communities and also that intersectional way of approaching things that you can't just address one problem without all of the others at the same time. And Petra, I'm wondering from, you know, from your position in government and looking at policymaking, how you think about incorporating underrepresented groups in the decision-making that affects them? Yes. What is so much to comment on what Nadia said, but I understand we have to discuss other topics as well. I think it's extremely important if you, as a government, as policymakers say we want to work on more inclusion and diversity that you talk to the people that you want to involve, of course, that they are the ones that needs representation, that needs their rights to be respected, that need to participate to whatever policy you are making, so you have to sit with them and talk with them. And I think, at least in Belgium, we are trying to do that as much as possible. I gave already the example of people with a disability that we apparently are not successful in attracting them into public service. While we are sitting together with their representatives, their organizations to see what can be done to improve, to increase the numbers in public service, we have, of course, very close ties to the LGBT community, and they have their own groups within the public administration, which is much more difficult in Belgium, at least in the public administration, is to reach and to attract more people with a migration background. That is really difficult. We do not have data. We cannot really follow up. But of course, I started to say the data is not what is really important, so we have to do much more of an effort to reach out and to attract the people to get for recruitment, for instance, in the public administration. So I think at all these levels we're trying to do that, and then we didn't even discuss intersectionality, of course, because if you're a woman of color, your situation is quite different from other women and of men of color. I mean, we need to realize that because we usually look into silos and we say, okay, we're doing so much for the women. We're doing so much for people with a migration background or people with a handicap. But intersectional approaches are more and more important, and we need to address them also in the way that we're looking into ways to improve inclusion. What do you think are concrete steps that organizations of any type can take to take a more intersectional approach? Because you're right. It's so siloed right now, and in reality, all of us have multiple identities happening at once and affecting each other. What does that look like in practice? Well, to start, I would say, raise awareness about that, educate people in your management. So what are we doing? Because of course, the federal administration in Belgium is quite large as a number of people working there. We train the managers. We train the management. We explain what we want to achieve, and we have, of course, our policy goals that you set as a minister when you start, and then you say, how are we going to do that? We do a lot of analysis and studies, and that's very interesting, but then you need to work with that. And the first thing is to train the management and to raise awareness about all these issues, and very often they will say, well, we're doing whatever we can, and they understand, if you explain them, what unconscious bias is. You mentioned that. I think it's extremely important. It's something a lot of people do not understand, or they are not, well, it's unconscious, of course, so they're not realizing that they are biased, and then even in the decisions that they make to improve gender equality or whatever inclusion, they sometimes make the wrong decisions. So you have to train from the management up, and otherwise, you also have to work bottom up, of course, and really have the people that you are working for and with the voice, so that they can tell you, I will tell you what is important for me, and so maybe we can get further from that perspective. So it's a continuous work that you have to do. Another thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is that DEI means something very different in different parts of the world. So if you're in Nairobi, if you're in New York, if you're in Tokyo, how those things play out is different. So Peter, I'm wondering from your perspective and from anyone else's, as a company that works internationally, how do you overlay that international lens on to thinking about this? Yeah, I think I mentioned at the outset we have colleagues in 130 countries around the world, so it's a pretty broad sampling. And the argument often comes up as to which culture is the prevailing culture? Is it the firm culture, or is it the country culture and the city culture, wherever we're operating in around the world? And we have concluded that for us, kind of the firm culture is what is the umbrella under which everything else operates. And within the context of that umbrella, obviously we want to be good citizens, we want to do the things that are requested, we want to be better than that. But it's very much kind of the fundamental values of what our company Bloomberg is all about. But with a heavy understanding that we've got to be good citizens locally, we've got to basically address the issues that we should, and in many cases, extend ourselves beyond what other organizations do. And so far, that has worked quite well for us. Many of you may also know we are the premier provider of news and data to the financial services community. But on the news side of things, obviously Bloomberg News is on our terminal, but we're in the media business. We have probably the only global media platform, which is Bloomberg Television, both digital and obviously over the air. And so we have kind of a different platform that we can also address some of these issues with through our media outlets. And we try and be consistent, obviously, but focus on the issues that are important in local environments in which we operate as well. So we try and do it both within the firm. But as I mentioned also before, 85% of our profits go to the Bloomberg Philanthropy Philanthropic Foundation. And then through that vehicle, we do an awful lot with local organizations to address issues of inequality, to address a wide range of social issues, because we feel giving back to the local communities is a critically important part of being good citizens and good partners within those areas. So I'm about to turn it over to all of you for questions, but I have one more question for you, Aham. How do you think about extending, you know, moving from thinking about EI internally to extending your company's influence to the industry and beyond? Well, first of all, you need to do the job internally. We're not yet there as a company. I have 30% of women. We are 21,000 people around the world across one third, one third, one third, across the three big regions. 30% women. But when you climb the ladder, less than 20% in the top 30. So it's sobering. It's not because you have a woman at the top that the problem is resolved. So we have a code of business integrity, which I made it mandatory to be read, to obey to, and to sign it off every year by all employees of Solve. It's new in the company. And there there is zero tolerance to discrimination, harassment, or racism, etc. We hire and we fire, regardless of your performance, because of the business of business integrity. And then, you know, you know, that I belong to the chemical industry. So climate change in the top of the agenda, house gas emissions. So what we did in Solve One Planet, where Solve One Dignity belongs to, we put the DNI at the same sense of urgency as the climate and the resources is the same. They're related, right? They're related. They're related that the most vulnerable they suffer. And it impacts my pocket. You need to walk the talk. So 15% of my variable compensation is linked to Solve One Planet. So it is for the whole organization. So we walk the talk. And then I think a lot has been mentioned from training the top leaders, right, on unconscious bias. I have one. Everybody has one hiring with anonymous CVs and resumes to attract more ethnicity and obviously gender. Help women to be more ambitious. We have an A effect, A for ambitious, and raise the hand, right? We walk the talk as a company three weeks ago. We have published the wages gap between men and women. It's the first time in our history. We promise to close it. By the way, it goes both sides because in Belgium, women at Solve, without my salary, are paid more than men. So it's an anecdote, unfortunately, but it's the case. We also realize that we are losing women during maternity leave, right? And this is very tough times, including personally, I suffered during my maternity. So what we've done is that we extended the maternity leave to 16 weeks. We extended it to fathers and all co-parents regardless of their sexual orientation. And what happened is that last year, 200 babies enjoyed their fathers, which is great at Solve. So welcome to future fathers who want to enjoy their babies. But what happened as well is that the LGBTQ communities, right, made their coming out because they have also gone off for adopted children or whatever. And we want to, you know, frankly, beyond diversity and the saying, invite diversity to the party and don't forget to dance with it. Because if not, it will leave you and the best people leave you first. What we are doing is really we're getting this bottom up approach. Are people recognizing that dignity has to be at the center of everything we do? Because if you have it, if you have this respect, if people can bring their whole self at work, by the way, we're not going to do it because we're not charitable company. I'm running a profitable company. And it impacts the bottom line, definitely. On that note, who has questions? Thank you, everyone, for excellent insights this afternoon. My name is the Bangat Rehan. I'm a global shaper from India. In multiple conversations around DEI, I've observed that the common consensus is if you can share your stories, you can start a conversation. My question really is that historically, when people with disabilities, LGBTQ community members, they've shared the stories, they've been injected, they've been discriminated, they've often been bullied as well. What can we do as a society to ensure and give that psychological safety in schools and colleges and workplaces that the next time a person on the margins wants to share their story, they're not discriminated against and they're not bullied? I'll add a post script to that, which is in a world where things are in many countries are getting more polarized. Anti-DEI language is being used politically increasingly. And so in that context, tackle that question. Petra? Yes, I'm willing to start because it's an incredible important and difficult question at the same time. I think it starts with having the legal frameworks that protect people. And as you know, and for instance, at a higher level in Europe, we have established that in the workplace. No discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or whatever other discriminatory grounds in the workplace. Many countries have extended that to other circumstances in society. That's the legal framework. I think you really need to fight for that and it's a political struggle and it is not easy and there is evolution in different directions today in the world. We know that we need to be aware of that. But then you're not there yet because we know that even if you have that legal framework, it is in the minds and the hearts of people that discrimination arises very often in very close surroundings. If you talk about coming out that you're gay, it might be your friends and your family where you have really two overcome problems of discrimination or worse, not only in the workforce. So it's a two-step approach. But I think the legal framework is very important. That's the political struggle so that you know you're living in a country where laws protect you, you cannot be discriminated, you can go to court, you have your rights and the second step is much more difficult and we know that but it is also work in progress. We still have to fight for that every day, all of us in our environment, to your friends and family, what the values are that we cherish. Thank you so much. My question is regarding, you mentioned using blind resumes. So I'm working on inclusion of people with disabilities in Latin America and I want to dig further about your experience using blind resumes because in ours, blind resumes can get you to an interview but if you're not removing the bias, nothing is changing. I mean it's delivering further frustration and it's not working for anyone. No, it has to go together. It's an excellent question. I actually trained my top 100 leaders on unconscious bias and I sat with them because I have an unconscious bias. When you look at me, you say oh she's not from Scandinavia, she's probably African, Arab, whatever. So I think the unconscious bias is part of us and we need really to be trained and remind ourselves during interviews, rights about it. So it's about training, educating again and again. At the end of the day we want the best people and the best competency to take the job and we never compromise as a business leader about competency but I'm forcing for the hot jobs, right? The hot jobs are the senior jobs, right? 50% representation of minorities, minorities be it gender, races, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation. And I'm not known as a lady of quotas. I've been always fighting quotas in my life saying I'm not taken because I am a lady but because of my competency and my CV and my resume and my track record. But I must say maybe it's age and maybe before my retirement I'm wondering gosh how I'm going to make an impact and how I'm going to make those minorities more visible. So we are forcing now the 50% of shortlisted candidates to come from the minorities in the interviews which made people think where the headhunter comes back say cannot find them. Impossible to fight Chinese. I don't have enough Americans in my top 30 where the U.S. is my number one country of sales. Not enough black African American. We started an employee resource now group. So you really need to make it as urgent as making money. That's it. Really, as urgent as making money. And I think when it's parts of your conversation like now climate and sustainability dashboard are parts of our discussion you will see that we start moving the needle. So let me add a couple of things. Just we do unconscious bias training once a year for our entire workforce. The issue on all these things that we're talking about is persistence. You just can't take your foot off the gas for a minute. Because of the intentionality of what we're ultimately trying to accomplish but also the value of what we're trying to accomplish. And so my responsibility and I think the panel's response certainly from my perspective my responsibility is to be an insufferable pain in the ass to my colleagues. And remind them we're doing this for the greater good and it's not just the right thing to do for us. It's very much a business imperative. But if the leadership and we've been talking about this on the stage if the leadership isn't committed and doesn't set the right tone you'll fail almost immediately. But if you do it right and have staying power you'll ultimately get to the end game. But the end game will come as I said at the outset and please don't forget this. This is a race without a finish line. It's never over. And we're never people in leadership positions should never be satisfied. Yeah I just wanted to add on the quota we don't use quota but we use quota for the selection jurist. Because a jury is you know more you know inclined to choose from candidates that are representing themselves. So if you make your juries more diverse you will have more diverse in top management positions. That is that is where we do it is. And this works. It really works. No it's an important point from the minister. We also have now a hiring group rather than just one manager to really ensure ensure that the decision is done with intersections of views and divergent views. It's great we do it. Hi like Gabriel I also work on disability inclusion and diversity Katie I think has become like a bad name. And what we realized while inclusion of disability it's been really about including value right about maximizing value. So in this value inclusion we have realized a very important insight and I have a question based on that that there is a competency required it's no longer about awareness it's a knowledge skill and attitude and we call that include ability. And I'll tell you why even along with all that access provision or whatever is done the level playing field for equity it could be that the person has not a good education because they didn't get access to education couldn't go to a school and that would be for underrepresented communities and or their language is different and you know there are solutions for all of this just so I had two part question one is are there things like that that you're faced where you've had to step in it's not a policy yet and then you made a policy where we'll take somebody on based on skills and not education etc. So you'll notice that it's a decision that means it's a competency you had to display. So my second part would be really especially Peter I'm wondering whether we conduct a training which is on include ability it's a count competency at management institutes so it's it's more to do with now institutionalizing this and I just wonder if you know there should be something done regarding that so just a two part question one is so it's a two part question with less than a minute I'm so sorry yeah my mistake then we can we can take it offline well listen yeah I mean that's why I started with my personal story of accessing education at the end of the day we can dance on our head it's about having access girls and minorities to that education and that's why for me I'm engaging more and more with academia on and I have a problem as representing the chemical industry the industry but the science technology engineering and math there is a nutrition and we lose a woman along the way so we're doing a lot for girls for sciences right bringing them above and beyond the stereotype that this is not their their field but you're right it's about access to education and now we have in the company and I know it's that some jobs are almost oversized with specs which are over qualification and the question is can we actually review our specs right to welcome more you know less educated probably people back to you Peter thank you we're out of time but thank you all by the bell damn that was close I tried to be fast but oh it didn't work you're all wonderful thank you so much thank you