 Is that good? Yeah, we can. Okay, don't know what that was about. I go ahead. Marcus, we're all here. Thank you, Guildford, for sending your crew. You must have known it was the attack meeting tonight. Where did he send this crew? It's in front of my house to the big. A hole is outside of it. Oh. Well, how do I get people into my pot? My favorite. Actually, the one that I've been noticing lately is the one right at the university drive crosswalk, like across from the. Medical place. And it looks like it's been patched, but now. I know some of it is pretty deep right on the CVS side. Anyway. Right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You said said he wouldn't be here tonight. So. Okay. And I, I have a hard stop at six 30. So my apologies. Oh, it's fine. So we'll open this meeting pursuant to governor Baker's Mark 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of open meeting law. This meeting of the tack is being conducted via remote participation. So there's a public comment. Do we have any public with us? Nope. Yeah, I will let you know a lot of people did call today. And yeah, about paving questions. And I just reiterated that Guilford was restating. What was presented at the TSO. So I don't think, or I don't know if people are going to come for that part or if they just went and they checked out the. Presentation as it was posted. So. I was actually expecting some attendees. But it doesn't look like there are any. So Amber, where, so where has it been posted on the website? If we get questions about that or. So in the agenda. If there's a link in there. That link. Oh, right. Yeah. The copy of it. That's on the town website. I know at the TSO meeting, the time manager had said that there would be like the recording. And that it would all be available. So I didn't know. That's on the town. That's on the town YouTube channels. So. Yeah. I just haven't checked it. I haven't checked it out yet. Okay. Yeah. They haven't done it yet either. I don't know if you've seen everything on Fridays. So. But I thought it made it sound like just because there are going to be questions that come up and also because it was a really good presentation. By Jason Guilford that I think it would be great. You know, if it could, in addition to being on the YouTube channel, if it could be placed somewhere like on one of the DPW pages are also higher up just because it was just really well done. And we just don't want to get a lot of questions. So. It does get put on our blood page when we actually get the rest of the stuff on it. Cause sure. We do it all. We put it all in there. When it's all ready. Yeah. But I meant like if the town manager wanted to put it in his report or something, you know, other places where people are going to ask for it. Maybe a link from engage AMRs. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good question. I mean, I don't know where to find stuff on the website. So. I would be front center. So I think, um, so Guilford is here to present. Oh, well, and I think that I'm really looking forward to that. I did have a question though, because. Because we didn't meet last week. We had talked about meeting next week. On the fifth. Now there are a lot of other things happening in town on the public forum. I mean, there's a lot of other things happening on the public forum. Um, there's a lot of other things happening on the public forum. Um, and there's also the TSO public hearing. Um, so I don't see us getting a lot more added to our workload until after TSO meets. Like if they did want to refer anything to us. Do we feel like we definitely need to meet next Thursday? Or could we push it to, we typically would then meet on the third. Yeah. Well, we typically meet on the first and the third. So. Right. It would be. It would be on the 21st. Do we want to just, we'll just not meet next week. You know, but I have coming up. Oh, wait, that would be May 19th. Oh, sorry. May 19th. That's what I meant. I'm sorry. So we would only have one meeting in May is what you're saying. I mean, it's just a question for the group. I'm okay. We could meet the 12th and the 26th. I mean, I'm not available on the 26. I mean, I, I feel like, I don't think that there would be a lot of things for us to discuss at the next meeting necessarily. I mean, there's something, you know, Christine has some updates, things that were working on a little bit sort of in the background, but I don't feel like, and particularly with some of these other meetings, I just, I'm not. I feel like some, there might be some kind of, you know, I just take the whole month off. Make your life easier. I won't. I won't be here the 26. I won't. I probably. Make me able to make the 19th, but I probably. Would give it to somebody else if it's on the 19th. And do we want to try to meet on the 12th? What do you guys, I mean, that's after you've mass graduation, right? No, it's before you mass graduation. I don't know. I mean, don't know. No. So that's what you're saying. Yeah. I think I have to do a graduation thing. Right. Yeah. I actually have to do a graduation thing. I'm on. Yeah. Go to the honors college graduation at night. So I can't. Right. So why don't we plan then a meeting on the 19th? Okay. And if we decide we want to then have additional meetings later, that's fine. On the 19th, we're on the TSO's agenda. We are. But how can we do both? Well, no, because our meeting is at 530 and they typically, I think. They typically meet at 630. Sometimes they've met at seven. Okay. And we're not first on the agenda there. I think Guilford may be first on their agenda. I'm not sure, but. Maybe that's why that's true. He probably wouldn't be there that night. He said. Yeah. I haven't been told that yet. Oh. Okay. All right. So let's just, we'll plan on the 19th. For now. And if we want to, you know, load in. I mean, sometimes it's quieter in the summer. So we'll see. Okay. Thank you. Great. And should we, we should approve our past minutes, which Amber did so nicely up for us. So that those are the minutes from Thursday, April 7th, the last meeting. Anyone is welcome to comment. And I'll wait a moment or two before we vote on this. So anyone. Wants to take a look. It's good to me. Great. Would you like to make that into a motion? I motion. To approve the minutes. Second. Great. All those in favor. Marcus. Are you voting? Oh, yes. Hi. Okay. Great. A motion. The minutes are. You know, I'm a silly approved. Thank you. And the next. I don't. I'm sorry. Kim, I just want to quick question. So Betsy. Johnson, isn't she spelled with an S E Y or just a Y, but Christine. I thought it was just a Y, but. I don't know offhand. Okay. Yeah, it's just a Y. There's no UI. Yeah. And she's actually not. Yeah. She's the chair of the walk Boston board or something. So I'll just clarify that. If Amber isn't still here, I'll just send her that correction. Okay. No, yeah. I'll send her that correction. That's fine. Okay. Thank you. So amended. All right. Great. And next. We have. Guilford. Presenting on town roadways. Current conditions and making. Repairs. So the town have roadways. There's a lot of them. We try to fix them. No, you do not. Really? All right. I'll share the presentation. Guilford. Guilford. What about. And my sidewalk. And my potholes. What about mine? Me, me, me. We don't do me's. Right. Can everybody see the presentation? No. No. No. He started sharing your screen, but you haven't showed us anything. Black screen. I hit the pause button. Now we see. I can pause it. That's great. I can start again. I can pause it. I can pause it. I can pause it. I can pause it. I can pause it. I can pause it. I can pause it. I can pause it. I can pause it. And I can start again. I learned stuff all the time. Sorry about that. All right. So this is, this is actually the third time we've given this presentation. We giving it this. We've done this three, three times. In the presentation. Each time we have to, we do a survey. called StreetScan now. Their previous name used to be called Pavemon. And they have a little car, they used to have a big van, and you'd see the van drive around, but now they have a little Honda Fit. And they use a combination of cameras, GPS locators, and then LiDAR cameras in the back, which actually scan the roadway as they drive over it and collect data on all the deficiencies and all the imperfections and all the perfectness as well. So collect all that data. They didn't take it and they crunch it in a bunch of computers and come up with all the different types of bumps and all the all the distresses we have. So as you can see, these are the main distresses they pick up. Distortions and stuff, they get potholes, patches, cracks, crack sealing, block cracks, longitudinal traverse cracking and alligator cracking and they take all this data. And once they get it, they send it through an algorithm they have, which actually we've been working with them on the algorithm. And we've actually got it. They have a different algorithm for different areas of the country. They do this in other places in the country. And we have kind of like a northeast version of this algorithm, because our roads sort of fall apart a little differently than other places of the country, like down south you, you don't have the same problems we have here. In the Midwest, they have about the same problems. And so we've kind of gotten the tailor for us. So out of this all this information, the roads are rated, and then the rating scale is here on the right. It's 100 point scale, 100 point being the best. We do not grade on a curve. It's a straight grade, it's no curving it whatsoever. So most of our stuff right now is in the fair condition, and we'll talk about a little more, but this is the breakdown of how you get or what the scores are. Do you want you can ask questions if you want to on each slide or you can wait till the end, it's up to you guys. Right? No question. This is one question, sorry. How deep? I mean, they don't have a ground penetrating radar, right? So they couldn't, they're just looking at the surface condition and guessing what's below or how deep are they really going? No, the LiDAR can actually, if the crack is open up far enough, they can tell exactly how deep the crack is, and how wide it is, and then there have been instances where they've been able to tell which cracks are connected together, which is kind of interesting. But it does get the depth. So this is an example of excellent condition 85 to 100. You see no defects on here, you just see a bunch of little oil drops. That's basically an excellent road. 75 to 85, you start to see some cracking, you have some longitudinal cracking along the centerline, which is a failure, a failure point almost always. And then you start seeing longitudinal cracking over here in a wheel rut. This is where one of the wheels would be, and you start seeing, you can see cracking there. 25 to 40, you see more distresses you got. Sorry. We missed the fair. And we missed poor. This is this is very, very poor. So this has a lot of alligator cracking, especially in the route where the wheels are. The center between the wheels is a little, little better off, but where the wheels are, you have a lot more cracking. We missed serious to okay, so this is failed, this is totally failed. And actually, this picture is not from, this is pictures not from Amherst. So just so you know. But here you have lots of distresses, lots of potholes, lots of failures and then lots of patches to fix it. And then you, you create more bumps that way. Bay Road, probably at the east side of Bay Road is what this would be a failed section right now. So they do, we do all the rankings. And then once we get the rankings, we can actually put the other color coded map, which shows the segments of town. This is the current scanning we did. So we have no failed roads, except you can argue that Bay Road failed. This scan was done last before the winter last before last winter, it was in the fall. So some of the roads have failed over the winter Bay Road being one of them. So the eastern part of Bay Road, this section in here kind of blew apart this winter. A couple other sections around the blue part as well. But this is kind of the overall map. And we do post this when we do post this on our webpage, and people can look it up. And we also take the data and put it on the GIS, you can click on our road on the GIS and the new ratings will come up. And that's how we communicate this to people. This is another thing a map they can make for us. And it shows every distress. So every patch pothole alligator crack section that shows it all up. It's actually very busy. And it's not a very useful tool, unless you really zoom into it. We don't use it very much. We like to just show it. But the software can do all this as well as just rate it. You can actually see where every distress was it made the rating. And from that, we make a table of the payment condition index. And this is what the table looks like, it starts with number one, and it goes down to number 732. And all the street sections are listed the streets to and from and then the links are here and then you can get the PCIs. So that's, that's what that's the outcome of the list of the data collection. From there, we can take it and start looking at it. Overall, our condition right now after the last survey was 65, which is fair. And then we have the breakdown on the right of how they break down how many roads. We have nothing right now in the failed or serious when we did the survey. Although like I say Bay Road is probably in this failed section right now. And then it also has an algorithm which computes the methods we should use to repair all these roads to take them from the rate they are ranking they are now all the way up to 100. And if we wanted to do that, our backlog is $48 million, $49 million. The thing to remember is that all the price increases we've had are actually in this number. So our inflation numbers are inflation is very high right now. The cost of construction is very high. asphalt prices have gone up. Those things have all gone up. So this is actually twice what it was last time, which is the next slide. But most of this change is because of inflation, not because of we have more work to do really. Okay, so that we do it every five years is that when we do this we do it every we do it every four to five years we try to get it at least four years is what we try to do. Is the actual goal to have all roads at 100% or 100 PC? No, we want all the goals to have all the roads in the 70 65 to 70 range. That's our goal. So when you're stating the backlogs it's to get all roads to that level or is it or is that a backlog to get everything to 100? It's actually we looked it up it's a get it to 100. So this is what it was last time 63 we came up. We came up to our backlog was much less but then prices were a bit cheaper back in 2018. And then like I said, it'll also tell us how we should repair the roads and I'll come up with a plan. This is kind of a breakdown of where the road the PCI condition is in this area. This is the type of road repair we want to do and this is the prices for those type of things. 90 to 100. We're not really recommending doing anything on it because it doesn't need anything. Then 70 to 90. Those are just surface repairs, crack sealing, thin overlay, a chip seal overlay, a rubber asphalt seal overlay. Those are the things we're talking about in this in the 70 to 90 range, the 40 to 70 range. We're starting to talk about milling and overlaying and the prices are going up as we get more and more involved in what we're doing for repairs. Basically zero to 40 roads gone, grind the whole thing up, inject asphalt into it, make a new base and then start paving on top of it again. And then like you see the prices are going up kind of exponentially. It's 100 basically $100 a square yard to do a full repair and then 25 for milling and overlaying. And you're in the dollar a square yard range when you're doing just the micro surfacing and crack sealing type treatments. So one thing I'm not seeing a lot of over here is putting down tar and then putting finings on top. Is that something that you kind of, you know, to refinish the surface? That's the chip seal and surface treatments that we talk about. Okay. I just don't tend to see a lot of that around here. We have not gotten into it very much because we've been trying to catch up on the backlog of the worst roads. So we haven't spent much money on it. The town of Hadley does it a great deal. The smaller towns will do it more than we actually do it. Instead of doing a milling overlay, they'll do a chip seal and so forth. That's kind of where you see that more often. Is it, I mean, is it worth the time to do that to, you know, increase the length of the time before we have to start milling or redoing everything? It is worth it. But then we haven't had enough time and money to actually break it. We've been putting all our time and money and effort into getting the really bad ones back up to speed. So we spend all our money there and then we don't have enough money to spend on these other things. We haven't, we have increased crack sealing a lot and we're hoping next year to start doing a couple of the surface treatments. Chip sealing is really rough and people don't tend to like it. Yeah, I mean, it messes your car up, but it was worth it in the end. It does. There's something called a fog seal, which we're hoping to do on a couple of roads next year, which is the chip seal with another finer layer on top of it, which makes it a little smoother and people tend to like it. When your kid falls on it while they're rollerblading or bicycle, they don't get a bunch of rocks in their legs or their elbows. I shouldn't be going out and doing that sort of stuff anyway. But yeah. So these are the types of repairs we do and how we decide basically the cost. So then we run it, we can make some decisions on how much money we want to spend, and we can run it through the program and it'll spit out a recommend repair list and what should be done. So this, this is the recommended repair for every street in the inventory. So as you see, Pelham Road, which is 98, it says nothing, don't do anything. This whole lane, which is 38, it says reconstruct the whole road appear far view way is 95, nothing. Mill and overlay for Blackberry Lane, crack seal and surface treatment, which is what you were talking about Marcus for Mountain View Circle and University Drive. So it gives us a, it gives us a place to start, this gives us a place to start when we start looking at what to do for the road repairs. And then of course, there's, it maps everything because everything should be mapped. So there's a map that you can have that shows which areas should be reconstructed and which ones should be crack seal, which ones should be milled and overlaid. And then this is where everybody likes to see these are our worst roads. So we have nothing, we have nothing under a 30, which is good. These are the worst roads in town. If we want to do all the worst roads in town, we need $2 million with their recommended repairs to fix them. Anybody on one of these? And then just one of the things that we were asked to do for the TSO presentation was talk about what we've done the past years. So over the last six years, this is the list of roads that we've we've repaired, what we've done to them, and then the prices on the right. And then the links are on here as well. We're up to about 3.7, 3.9. 2019, we actually got four, four miles a road in. 2019 was a lot of, we did a lot of work for Amherst Woods for sewer. And we actually did a lot of in, in DPW crews did a lot of this work. So we actually could lower the price. These bottom four were actually the bottom five were all done, partly done or mostly done by DPW crews, not by a contractor. You can see the prices are pretty, they're pretty much, they're a lot lower actually. Oh my gosh, a lot lower. That's, that's because the labor cost is included in our budget, not in the actual work number here. This is just material and expenses and we're doing it. So these are the last six years, back down to 2016. And then this is kind of what we're doing for 22 and 23. This is a little work, our work program. We have a bunch of different things here. It's easier to just get into the discussion. For rehabilitation reconstruction, this is the list where actually we open bids today. And I haven't heard what the bids were. But we actually have about $3 million out for work right now. And these are the roads we want to work on this year, the section of a road which blew apart. East Hadley Road. We want to clean that up since we've done the multi the multi purpose path in there, we want to make the road nice as well. So it was like a complete job, not just a halfway job. Leveret Road Leveret Road kind of blew apart this winter as well. People were concerned about that. Meadow Street, which is this is the section of Meadow Street, which is actually people think is in Hadley. You cross 116 and it goes from 116 to Roosevelt. I think some of those potholes are like a foot deep. Yeah, they're pretty good. Actually, to tell the truth, that road gets less attention because that's where I live. So I can't just keep sending them to my roads all the time. You got to stop calling them potholes and start calling them traffic calming devices. Yeah, we can call them that. Meadow Street, yeah. I prefer traffic calming that doesn't harm tires and cars. So when we go to Meadow Street, there's a little road over there called Russellville Road as well. We're going to do that because once we finish in the what we call the Hadley side of Amherst, we'll probably never go back there again. So we're going to do both those. We're doing Bay Road, like I said, there's a little road called Harris Mountain Road off of that. We're going to get Harris Mountain Road. And then the only thing to get back to is to come back into the Elphill neighborhood and do that. Kellogg Street is part of another project. And we're just we're paving the road while the other projects doing some other stuff. And then we hopefully will get Pomeroy Lane from West Street to Middle Street, get that redone as well. But that's expensive. Yeah. Was a lot of that due to the was it Pomeroy, where we had the person's water running down the street? There is a place where there is some water running down the street. I mean, was that was the freeze thaw on that causing some issues? No, it's just kind of I hate to say it, but the roads that have trees closer to the roadway, they tend to have the most problems and have the most free. But you can look at the maintenance suggestions here to Bay Road and Pomeroy or full depth reconstructions. That's why they cost the most. Then we have milling and filling. That's two processes. And then a overlay is just one process. So that's why they're the cheapest. You see the square yard cost here. Oh, yeah, so that's our road reconstruction for this year. Our preventative maintenance, we are crack sealing. We have a company coming in crack seal. These are the roads are going to crack seal this year. And it's $100,000 gets us a pretty good amount of roads and helps us extend the life. We think when we start doing the chip seals and the slurry seals this will actually we'll actually see that this part will expand a great deal and a lot better. You also slay the traffic down too. If you put the Cape Seal on it, it does smooth it out and people don't think it's as rough. So it's just as fast. This is our sidewalk run. These are the sidewalks we've got going right now. They're working on Ami Street now. If you live in that area, you've seen them working. And these are the ones we're going to. Taylor, Gray, McClellan and Chestnut. So yeah, that's a half million dollars almost to do sidewalks. So do those? Oh, what is that? Oh, I mean, are the, it looks, I saw the ones on Amity are getting completely removed and then put back in, right? So yes, that's called R and R. Yeah, remove and replace. Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah, thanks. The issue with the issue with sidewalks and the issue on paving roads with sidewalks is that if the, if the crosswalk and I can, I'll call it the handicamp ramp, but the crosswalk and where it joins the road isn't doesn't meet ADA standards. We have to take that all out and replace those with concrete. And that's very expensive and time consuming. Yeah, I see that's what you're doing, right? And on Amity now. Yeah, right. I have a question just about the Amity one just because it's in my neighborhood, but the, I keep thinking about like once this is done, like R is the town going to be doing anything to improve just the safety of the crosswalk across Amity at Lincoln, just because that is a place where there are crashes and where some of the sightlines can be bad and you have the, the ridge of the hill and so on. So some of the lighting isn't as good and the street is wide and it's not the most pedestrian cross, friendly crossing. So our other improvements planned in that at the intersection as well. There are. Oh, great. That's good to know. So can you know what they are, don't you? Well, yeah. We haven't, we haven't finished with it, but we, I think more than likely it's just going to be the, we're just going to put the wrap in rectangular flashing beacons there. Oh, okay. Really? Oh, it's so good because that's such a dangerous place. It's pretty dark there. I mean, it's, I walk there a lot. There's a lot of road to cross too. It's a wide road. So the thing is so on the other side of Amity on the south side of Amity, right? I mean that some of those I mean, those sidewalks aren't slated for improvement either. So that's right on the south side. No, we're doing from Lincoln all the way up in the town, both sides. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, you started on the other side today, but then then the other, the other part of Lincoln is really bad too. That part that heads over to route nine. Lincoln, yes, but we're not doing Lincoln. Yeah. Yeah, I understand. Is there someone out there that has like adapted the streets, street scan technology to sidewalks? Yes, they have. No, they have a, have you seen, you've seen those, those like baby joggers, strollers with the three big wheels. This company has one of those that's got all the gear laid out on it and they push it. They also, I suppose we have a segue that has all the gear on it and they do the segue as well. And I know you asked one of the researchers is using wheelchairs, sometimes doing some stuff with wheelchairs and things too. So there's a, go ahead. It costs about $60,000 to do. Oh, it would cost $60,000 to do all our sidewalks and it costs 18 to do the roads. Oh my gosh. Right. Cause you can go faster. And you have both sides of the street if you have sidewalks. Yeah, but you have both sides of the street if you're driving. Yeah. No, but I think, can you cap, you know, they don't have to do the two lanes separately. Do they have to? I do. I do. Otherwise you're going to have to have a boom out over the travel lane. Well, yeah. So I've been meaning to talk to that researcher. Just to, because so he's done a number of pilot studies. His name is Chenguo Ai and he does a lot of like AI and things, but also using LiDAR to do the data collection and he's worked with MAS. One on a project to improve the sidewalk inventory layer, you know, do the sidewalk conditions and then import it as a GIS layer. And he's also been working on one for like pavement markings and so on. Like other inventories that are just not really kept up in some asks that doesn't really know like what the status of them are. I wish there was some ways to like automate it more, even potentially or something. But I haven't gotten to talk to him yet, but but his students are doing a lot of really great research on sidewalks and accessibility and safety and stuff. So that's the sidewalk plan. And then these are the other three projects that are going on this year. Mill Lane, another multi-use path is going in from Mill Lane to Graf Park. And that's just that one you guys have. I saw there was some red marking right now. Yes, there's the contractor should be in next week. OK. And then County like Avenue, we're do replacing the sidewalks from North Pleasant Street up to the bend in the road or House 44. We're replacing those all those sidewalks, except for the sidewalks by the church where the trees are. So those sidewalks are replaced and then that's the road. We'll go and come back in with our repair, a road repair money and we'll pave the road. Cool. And then hopefully we'll get to West Street and Palma Roy and do the intersection. Oh, wow, this season. Yeah, this is all this season. So, I mean, doesn't that what the Palma Roy money like need to be used like, is there is it kind of? There's a time period for using it. In terms of, you know, we've got an American rescue plan, whatever it is, the infrastructure plan that's going to. I think they will probably won't see a lot of money spent on that until the third quarter of the year. But is that going to interfere with with your planning? How many of these contractors that we use are likely to be pulled into the larger federal and state projects? There's only there's basically in our in Hampshire County, there's really only three large paving companies that do the work. And they also do Hamden and Franklin and they also go in the Berkshire County. So if you think about if everyone has a three million dollar project to do and they all put them out, those three guys, those contractors, the only three there are that in the area. So we are we have seen it happen before. And we expect it will happen now. We expect it to happen that there's just going to be too much work for our contractors to handle. Yeah. Back back when they had the. Our money, the American Recovery Act money. We did a couple of roads with that money. At the same time, we were doing that. The state had a huge pile of money and we were all trying to spend these big gobs of money, but we only had three contractors. Yeah. So it went. It went a little long. Well, that I'll say. I mean, I don't I would just imagine. That there's not a real competitive. Pricing situation here that. You know, if there's three three major contractors and one or two. Gas fault plants that. The chances of getting a little bit or slim. Yeah, we're really curious about what the bids were. We got this time, I mean. I mean. The one thing that the state does requires when you're doing paving jobs and if you're going to use your chapter 90 money in the paving jobs, which we always use chapter 90 money, you have to put escalators in in the contracts. So you have a price escalator for asphalt for diesel fuel for steel. And I think for concrete. So if you put those escalators in there, it protects the it protects the contractor a little bit from price fluctuation. But then again, the contractor is going to bid based on what he knows he needs to bid. And we're seeing the biggest issue is just workforce. We had a contractor in today and he says he can't hire anybody and anybody he hires to work just to be a laborer. He's paying thirty dollars an hour cash. That's crazy. It'll work itself out. It may take two or three years to get all everything done, but it'll work itself through. And then we're actually working on we're already working on the next list of roads to do because we're anticipating more money coming at us. So this is will be the twenty twenty three list, which we will probably bid sometime in the summer to try and get contractors lined up to do this work. And if you look at some of these, the almost all of these are on the bad boy list. They're the worst roads in town. We heard from Sunland how they're sort of late work went. I know they were running sidewalks into what? November, late November last year. Have you heard how that went? Everybody who everybody who worked late went OK. The people who there's actually a water line, they put in a long meadow and the asphalt they laid in December actually is OK. But then again, if you look at the patch job they did at UMass for the drain realignment on Mass Ave. That that that job settled really weird and it's not a very good. It's not a good paving job and they haven't fixed it yet, but hopefully they will. With concrete, if you want to go a little late, you just go a little late and you put blankets and heat it up and you keep it warm and you can make it work easier and you can't asphalt. And they were laying blankets like they were late tomorrow. So Mass Tut has been doing. There's a couple of researchers at at UMass. UMass Amherst, but there's also a big pavement guy at UMass Dartmouth. But but UMass Amherst has been doing some studies just so Mass Tut has had some issues where some of the sidewalks are like having significant cracking and issues after just a few seasons. And so they were asking them to look at what the main issues were and how they could prevent them. So that they were doing some work at the facilities, the materials research center in Central Mass, where they laid out all these different slabs and they had different treatments and so on. They did it over the winter and they're also doing one in the summer. But they've been Mass Tut's going to update like their guidance like based on those research projects. One of the takeaways I had, I saw from the winner, the study about like the winter is that one thing is that even though sometimes towns are really good about the not treating the sidewalks with like serious chemicals to keep the sidewalks in better condition and also just for runoff and so on. But the but if the plows are plowing like the more heavily salted road stuff onto the sidewalks and then sometimes it sits in piles. I guess this happens particularly along some of the state roads is then that actually it's sitting there like the big piles are sitting there and like dripping into the sidewalk for a really long time as it's piled up and that actually degrades the sidewalk a lot too. Oh, but anyway. I can share some of those things, but I think Gilford, I did share some of them with you. But the reasons I'm going, but they are like changing some of the standards and stuff based on it to. Prolong the sidewalks because you don't want sidewalks that only last for a few seasons. Nobody. So then this is our crack ceiling list we put together for 2023 and we'll actually try it. I mean, if money's there, we're going to try to roll it out faster. And we did this year. So this company actually has the ability this company actually works the entire it works Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, I think a little bit of New York and they might get in the southern Vermont and New Hampshire, Maine. But it's just one company, but they're very, they're very good. And they have lots of crews. But this is our next crack ceiling list. And that's where we are. Oh, they put new tar down at that's Mill River. Oh, that's. Yeah. Well, this is the new basketball court at Mill River. We're just we're just waiting for the temperature to get above 50 and to have a dry to have a dry spell so we can actually paint the basketball lines permanently on the court now. Well, this is the only picture we had which had all the the paving equipment on it. That's cool. So that that's any questions? I'm not as I didn't tell as many funny stories as Jason did. We asked all our questions, we're good at that. But that was really informative and I like, you know, particularly, I like how it's like data based. I like that. Yeah, it's not. Sorry, is the money for sidewalk maintenance the same as the money for roads or are those two different parts? It can be the same part, but normally what did it? Well, it's the same two parts of money. It either comes from taxation capital or it comes from chapter 90. Mm hmm. What is chapter 90? Chapter 90 is your your state is state money, which comes from the gas tax. Oh, so it's kind of paid it's money that state borrows and they pay it back with gas tax money. So everybody who has an electric car, you you're not contributing whatsoever to this. Right, chapter 90 is also a strange my estimation, a strange piece of legislation is very prescript. You can only do certain things with the money. You can't, you know, if you chapter 90 money, you have to meet certain minimum requirements for the work you're doing or the equipment you buy. So that can be. That can be troublesome. And it's actually getting harder to put the projects together. The state wants more and more information. Oh, yeah. I hate to say it, but it sounds like the state's just trying to micromanage the towns and it's really getting to be a pain that it's going to be a pain. Well, you you you need prior approval. You can't just spend the month. So well, you now need prior approval and about four different people have to give you prior approval before you do it. It used to be just one person. Yeah, it's getting. Yeah, bureaucratic. And then, yeah, just out of curiosity, how, I don't know, as a new person looking and somebody who walks a lot, you know, there's a heck of a lot more miles being maintained for roads than for feet, you know, for the sidewalks. And I just was curious how that balance, I guess, or whatever is determined in terms of expenditures on sidewalks versus roads. So right now we've been trying to do like anywhere between two to four million two to two hundred to four hundred thousand dollars of sidewalk work a year. So that's what we've been trying to do. It's probably not enough. But then again, if you think about the roads, you have the buses or bus transits on them, you have bicycles on them, you have automobiles on them. And some places you have some walkers on them as well. So those are the you get your biggest bang there. And then we can try to get into the sidewalks. And for the sidewalks, we're also trying to go from the center, the densely populated areas out is what we're doing. And then we're also trying to connect the schools to the densest parts of town that way as well. So right, right. Most of these most of these ones you see like Taylor and Gray or around the high school. Yeah. Yeah. McClellan Street is McClellan Street is just kind of there. Chestnut streets from the high school, middle school into the center of town. Yeah. And then Amity Street is everybody's favorite hill to walk. Yeah. Um, gosh. And then multimodal paths, are they considered sidewalks? So like that big section between like Hampshire College and, you know, Graf Park along or I don't know when it stops becoming a multimodal and just becomes a sidewalk. But is that a sidewalk? The multi-use pass or multi-use pass are just usually bigger. And we actually are doing more of those. So that that's going to take money away from road and sidewalk work to do more of those. So to do more multimodal paths, like or to do their repair to do. Well, repair is we're actually looking at installing more of them, not just repairing the ones we have. So like north and then once and then you're saying so once more installed, then we actually end up in a repair situation where it's roads, sidewalks and multimodal. Is correct. Three. Right. And with money getting tighter. Yeah. Although once you repair a sidewalk or a multi-use path, do you really have a now usually last longer than the roadway? Because the things that actually deteriorate the roadway fastest is weight and speed. So the heavier the vehicles are and the faster they move, the more they're it's like bending. It's like bending a piece of metal. If you're flexing the piece of metal, you know, the more faster you do it, the more you do it, it'll break faster, which is what the cars are doing on the road. If you're just walking, you're not really bending it that much. So it's not deteriorating the sidewalks in the house as much. And then you mentioned this again, you mentioned, but but new construction is a different pot of money entirely. Like, for instance, the. We've talked about this once or twice, but a new sidewalk on East Pleasant between like Eastman and Pine. That's funded out of it, just a different pot of money. It can be, but more than likely it'll just come out of maintenance money and then we'll just not do some maintenance right. Yeah, but it is this where like as far as guiding your decisions on what parts get, I mean, I know lots of people have lots of requests and, you know, you need to make some rational choices for why you're doing what you're doing. Right. I mean, and you've clearly presented those tonight, but at least in part, is that why you want like our prioritization like plans? I mean, that must help with choosing, you know, rationally choosing, even if this road is this great and that road is the same grade, why you choose one over the other because it's more part of a, you know, a connection or priority based on some rational other decisions in town. I mean, that's a question I'm asking, I guess. Yeah. It helps when we want to do more than just do maintenance. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because because North Pleasant Street, the section of North Pleasant Street we want to work on already has sidewalks, but we're proposing to upgrade, make them wider and do some additional things. And the fact that it was a priority of the Transportation Advisory Committee to work in this section. That helps us push that. Right. I mean, yeah. No, I like the rationale. You know, I'm a scientist. I like rationale. I like numbers. I like priorities based on certain statistics or whatever. So I appreciate what you presented tonight, but I'm trying to think about how we can help with, you know, with that job, with your job. I guess. Yeah. Well, the thing I also think about like the community development block grant money, that's money that can only be used certain places. Right. If there's a project that you've prioritized, that's in one of those areas that actually helps push one of those forward, too. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. This was really great. I'll stop sharing. Mm hmm. Really? That was great. Thanks. Really helpful. Oh, I had one other question. Don't break. So the projects you showed us. So do they take three to four years and then we do another street scan or will there just be another set of projects generated for next year from the previous, you know, from whatever the 2022 scan? And that's the way it works until the next street scan. We take the street scan we have. And we usually do. We do can do two or three pavement plans or work repair plans off of them. OK. I don't know how fast we do them before the data, the data really starts to age a little bit and isn't as good as it should be. And we need to do another scan. So that's kind of how we do it. We want the scan and then we can base a few years off of it. Two or three. OK, thanks. So everybody have a question, too. Hi, Bernie. Oh, oh, Bernie just left. So I have a question, too. So you said did you use the same company to do the scan as the scan a few years ago, like the 2000 was a 17 scan? We use the same company, except they changed names. They used to be called used to be called Paveyman. OK, so they're from Northeastern, so they're a little more creative with their names. And then they turn in the street scan. So one question, my neighbor. So some of my neighbors have been complaining about sidewalk, I mean, the pavement here, just especially, I think, because we're so close to route nine and they're seeing what's happening there and what's going to happen with our street and everything. But so one thing that had come up is that somebody pointed out that that my street, my street, of course, but my street, that the rating of it improved from 2017 to 2022 or 21, even though no work had really been done here. And so they just wanted to they wanted an explanation of why that would be the case. Do you have any suggestions for them on that? Must must have been something we did with some of the patching. It must have come out better than it was before. Well, I know one thing is that the gas company, Berkshire Gas, that they extended the lines on the street, part of it. And when they did, they did very, very nice paving on the sections of the road that that impacted, which is a good center chunk of the street. It is not just patching or anything. It was like they laid down new pavement. And so maybe that was why that will contribute to making it better. So anyway, but they said they were skeptical of the system. Anyway, I thought there was a moratorium on the expansion of gas lines. They were cleaning up some existing work that they had done. And there's a there's a moratorium on expanding the lines. But they said the lines stop halfway on my street. So no new people can get them. But I mean, just doing maintenance. Yeah, it was more maintenance, exactly. But OK, thank you. All right, thanks so much, Guilford. That was really great. Thank you. And our next item of business is are some updates from the council and the TSO. And the first one is North Pleasant Street Parking West of Kendrick Park. Do you want to talk about there's a TSO public hearing scheduled on Thursday, May 5th, that's six thirty, which the least a few of us will be attending. So yeah, so that's the same time as the the building forum. That's why I mentioned it. And I think I sent a link, I forget, but I thought I said a link in the public notice just about the recommendation. So the the public notice of the hearing, it doesn't say too much about the recommendations. It's just saying that it's recommended that there be meters there from eight till eight. And then I guess there's been some questions. Some of the council members the other day. We're asking about like how long the meters will be. I think at the council meeting, actually, and things like that, none of those details are specified in the public hearing notice. But I think that some town staff may have some ideas on that. It also does say that they that it's left open if the council want to recommend having some permit parking in the area. So. So I guess after the public hearing, right, that the the TSO will decide with the next steps are. Andy, do you have any other information on that? The answer is no, I don't, because I think we're really waiting to get a recommendation from staff on the matter. So we were necessarily expecting that the leadership would first come out of the committee. OK. I mean, one thing I had noticed is just that if the meters, it sounded like at the at the council meeting that the town manager was saying the hearing notice was saying eight to eight, just because that was sort of the longest duration. And then it could always be scaled back later or something. But it is interesting because I think on Halleck, there are some meters on Halleck and those are only till 6 p.m. And there are also meters on the south end of the park. On North Pleasant Street, and those are also only till 6 p.m. And so. Oh, yeah, right. Just to have like the consistency about it's such a tricky thing, too, because it's like you want to have parking for the people at the park. But if you unfortunately, if you end the meters really early, it's possible that students who don't have parking. Like tenants who don't have parking will park in those spaces starting at 6 p.m. And then they won't actually be available to the public. Yeah, I mean, so that's sort of some of the ongoing issues with downtown parking situation. So I think that's a very distinct possibility of probability. Actually, I mean, those seem like some larger issues that the TSO or the council may want to, you know, tackle at some point because I don't see them even with some of the new parking fees. I don't see them going away, particularly on the streets that don't have the permit parking. So, Andy, would you like to say something? Yeah, I mean, the other thing in this comes from my experience of having been on the select board prior to being there being a council. And so the the 8 p.m. came up for particular reasons. And I'm not sure that a lot of counselors have yet either understood or in some cases bought into the reason for the eight o'clock, but it was to try and make sure that there were spaces available for people coming downtown for restaurants and things like that. And if you let the if you end the meters at six, it opens it up as you were pointing out when you were mentioning playground. I think the difference between the area that's further south is that there are there aren't as many restaurants with parking lots like for Seas doesn't have that problem. Yeah, it was both. Yeah, but like for just for example, for the people wanting to use the playground and things, right? I think that is important. And currently, right, even now, it doesn't get dark until like eight. So I mean, the playground, every time I go by it recently, it's been really packed with kids. You know, in the afternoons or the weekends or whatever. So but I I mean, this is not related to that end of town, but on the other end of town, the with the Spring Street parking lot and the parking lot in front of Town Hall, I do have concerns. Also is when that Spring Street housing apartment, those new apartments are actually being occupied because again, they don't have parking on site. And once the Town Hall, the parking in front of Town Hall is gone. So currently, if you're in the Spring Street lot or south of Spring Street, all those meters end at six. And so again, I can see an issue there if. With the off street parking for the those apartments that particularly of that Town Hall lot isn't there. And then the Spring Street lot is the main lot. If people who live in an area who don't have their own parking decide to park in that lot, that's going to take away from the downtown spaces. And I do think that could create some pressures on that end of town. But yeah, I agree. Yeah, you might want to include some of those comments. I didn't want to speak during the presentation of the Street report from Yelford because I had been through that report previously when it was before TSO. But, you know, I think the one of the points that you made that I really appreciated and I think you should consider putting it in your report, too, is the importance of using data to drive the decisions because the council is very much full of people who are concerned about their own district. And the look at the townwide perspective. Which isn't. Yeah. And that's something, unfortunately, that we've focused on for a long time is connections and making priorities based on, you know, things like where the density of people are and connecting town centers and connecting schools. And that's something that Tracy and I hope to convey when we meet with. Yeah, so we're going to the TSO. We're going to the TSO on the 19th. And like one of the things we're interested in is finishing up that map that was in the bicycle and pedestrian network plan, just because that showed all the priorities. That was a well vetted process. And it showed the priority pedestrian networks and priority bike networks and so then to continue to prioritize those areas. Yeah, thank you projects. Thanks so much for those comments, because that's definitely the thing that we want to convey when we. But I feel like presentations and you that with the like because you were on the TSO the last time, too, and you had brought it up. I think even at the council meeting, it's like having policies and, you know, standardized approaches like when issues come up. I think it's really helpful and it's it's a benefit. You know, it's a good way to run things and not just to well, and it's on the loudest voices, or as you said, people, just advocating for their own districts. But it also it also helps to like just make everything equal. You know, like, yeah, it's the, you know, equalizing everything is just based on data and not based on personal preference or something. You know, or like who speaks the loudest, which drives me nuts. And that's what I thought was really I mean, that's why I asked you to come and make the presentation here today. But I also would like I would like a lot more people to see the presentation just so they understand the thinking behind the decisions. So anyway, thank you. Any other comments before we move on to our next agenda item, which is the East Pleasant Crosswalk at Kendrick Park, which is on the council agenda in the 20th. So, yeah, so, Andy, that was on the council agenda. The Garcia is the other day. Is that correct? Did the council get to that item? I I missed part of the council meeting. Yes. And did it just go through? What was the status? Did it? I think it's very if I recall correctly, a lot of them have been so tied up in the budget. Oh, mine is melting. But I think that it was on the consent agenda. It was on the consent agenda. So I'm assuming it just went through. Yeah. So OK, great. Good. Yay. Congratulations. A little less iterative process. I mean, and I am really appreciative of. Chris Bressup and her staff were putting together like the memo for tactics as the basis for our comments. So it really made our job a lot easier. So thank you. OK person, both been great. No, absolutely. Yeah, they are awesome. So so TAC was invited to present the TSO on May 19th about what the TAC does our charge. And, you know, it's a very brief like presentation. And we want to get the biggest bang for our buck because we really want the TSO to know all the great things that we do and the services we can provide. So Tracy, do you want to follow up with some of that? Yeah, I mean, I think we will be put together that three paid sort of summary of the TAC. Kim and I had Kim and I are planning to be at the TSO meeting on the 19th and talk. I know the TSO agenda that night is pretty full, so I don't think we'll have a lot of time. We wanted to sort of recap the high points of that memo, but also maybe to do some slides, just to show, you know, things that we've been involved with. And and then to just, you know, to really emphasize how we are thinking about things sort of from a comprehensive point of view when using all these planning documents as data for thinking. Yeah, for thinking. I mean, I was just looking the other day at the Amherst Transportation Plan, which was done in 2015. It's a it's a great document. It's got so much guidance in there. Yeah. And it made me say, I wish I could get like a print copy. I wasn't on the TAC then. And we also is again, we do have the bicycle and network bicycle and pedestrian network plan. So there's a lot of these documents out there. And I mean, a lot of time has gone into putting those together. So those can really be helpful as references, both for the TAC and then also for the council as decisions are made and priorities are determined. So I mean, I think that's one of the main things we wanted to focus on. Yeah. And and just to, you know, to clarify perhaps like the role of the TAC, like there have been questions about that. I know when during COVID, there were questions about whether the tax should continue to exist and whether we're redundant with the council. I don't really see it that way. I feel like the council is super busy. There's so many things going on and the meetings are already so long. I mean, and we're really advisory in that we can just help and we can, you know, do some of the background research and then present to the TSO or the council with our recommendations. So yeah, I hope that it's seen that way. Yeah. Anyway, I don't know, Andy, I mean, you've been on that. You know, I really appreciate what you do and your importance and, you know, just questions about groups that really delves into the issues and understands the issues in depth because the, you know, the traffic issues and that we've been talking about even today and in public works issues. I think that they are not, there isn't time to understand all of it and to have the expertise and sort of the perspective of people who focus on it because of their, of your interest, I think is really important. So what you do is really, really have great, great value. So thank you. Thank you, that's fine. I mean, so one, I mean, one area where this came up is there are certain items. And I think, like, I know that I had gone to the Disability Access Advisory Committee and now we're including Myra Ross, who's the chair of that committee on our emails and so on. So she's kept informed about our agendas and so on and she can attend our meetings to the extent she'd like and just having, I mean, there's certain issues, certain topics that still will only go to them and won't go to the TAC or vice versa. And I feel like we're all interested in that, like we're both interested in them. So it can be helpful to have those perspectives too. I know when we were initially looking at Kendrick Park and North Pleasant Street and we hadn't yet heard from the Disability Access Advisory Committee, I kept thinking just about the access, the crosswalk access, the sidewalk access, like, and so it's so important to have that other perspective. I felt like I couldn't really, it was hard for me to make a recommendation as TAC until I heard from that group because that group is important, that's such an important constituent she needs to include in the access. So I mean, it would be great if we can get some more guidance from the TSR, the council, just about, what, how tax roll is seen or how where those connections can be made. And I mean, I brought up to the Disability Access Advisory Committee that was way back when on the old like public transportation and bike committee meeting back, you know, right, right, even before Guilford came to town, but we used to have like members of the Amherst Senior Center come to all the meetings and somebody from UMass Transit and somebody from Five College Inc. and somebody from Planning. And so it was really like, you know, tapped into like all those different perspectives like at our end of meetings and now we're all separate a little. But one thing that somebody had recently contacted me just and they were concerned about, and this is an idea of where it's important to have sort of a larger perspective, but they had contacted me because they were concerned about some of the new utility poles that they saw being installed and how the installation of those poles could like potentially impact the ability to put sidewalks on the same streets or to have crosswalks or crosswalks with say rapid rectangular flashing beacons because that was something that came up on Triangle Street where the right-of-way isn't wide enough to have that at the Prairie Street Triangle intersection. And so I know that there's a lot of those pole hearings for the utility poles. And I've seen some memos from DPW talking about, well, when you place the poles, like make sure that you also be able to like access the trees and things like that, but also just let's think about the potential of sidewalks or bike lanes or things like that too. I don't know if that's part of the consideration during those hearings. So. Chris has a hand up. Yeah, Chris, please. Just wanted to let you know that there has been a reconsideration about putting the rapid RRFBs on at the intersection of Cottage Street and Triangle Street. Oh, okay. And there will be some in that location. I don't know if it's two or four. I think it might be four, but the DPW has been speaking with Ben and Ben Breger from the Planning Department and others. Oh, Gilford has his hand up. Maybe that's, he's saying two. Two RRFBs at that intersection. Well, do you mean so one in each direction on Triangle? Is that what you're saying? Is that how that would work? So it looks like he's eating his dinner. But anyway, I think there's going to be enough there so you can cross in both directions. You can cross north, south, and you can cross east, west. It's an important crossing. And that way people can also avoid, you know, the roundabout there if there are concerns. Oh, well, thank you. That's a great update. Yeah, that's huge. So is that coming back then to the, I guess the Disability Access Advisory Committee will find that out and agree. I think they're going to learn about it, but I don't think it's coming back to them for their... Oh, okay, got it. Interesting. Input, yep. But I know my kids use that every day, you know, to walk to school every day, that crosswalk or whatever. Well, and I think part of their concern too, which is about Prey Street, that the Prey Street, particularly like for people who are like completely blind like Myra, that it's just Prey Street is complicated, right? So that original project had Prey Streetings. But it's good, that is a really busy intersection. And that was part of that original shared streets and spaces grant to like improve the whole corridor right between the park and the pool and stuff. So that does get used a lot. So that's great. That's great news. Thank you. Okay. So are there... Andy, do you have any upcoming and or potential referrals from the TSO to the TAC? Do you know of anything? I don't know if anything right now. Thank you. And so our next item is an update on the outreach efforts with Christine and Tracy. Any updates with Walk Boston? Well, Christine can talk briefly. I mean, I can say that I've... I mean, Christine and I both together we contacted. We've had some conversations with people from Walk Boston about pedestrian accessibility and improving walkability. Even though they're called Walk Boston, they are a statewide organization and they have been involved with walk audits and other projects out in Western Mass. And I know Christine has been talking to some people about safe routes to schools and getting more involved in that and potentially trying to tap into some of those funds. So I think those efforts are continuing. Christine reached out to the person who had come to our meeting last summer. And I think they're going to have a meeting, right, Christine? The safe routes to school. Yeah, the safe routes to school, yeah. The consultant, yeah. Yeah, her name is Lucy Friedenendal, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, just in conversation with Betsy, it seemed like, you know, given that the town is in the midst of this huge decision about relocating the elementary school and figuring out which sites and, you know, among a myriad of, you know, set of issues that the walkability and the bikeability, you know, is a concern for me. And, you know, walkability is definitely not all that great at wild elementary. So we ultimately figured out some potential roles for parents and others to try to advocate for the schools to become a part of safe routes to school, which is us, I think it's some, what federal highway administration money that sits at the state level. Yeah, it's through MASDOT, yeah. And then right through MASDOT, and then MASDOT contracts out with this private consultancy. Right. And then runs the program. So at any rate, safe routes to school seems like a good place to start. So I spoke to Lucy Friedenendal and we have a meeting with Debbie Westmoreland next week to actually try to restart the conversation with the principals in the middle school, the elementary principals in the middle school principle about engagement. That an ongoing engagement of the schools could unlock millions of dollars of funding for intersections and sidewalk maintenance and improvement. There's a big grant program that will fund out to two and a half miles outside in a radius around the school. Wow. For a sidewalk and intersection. So that was a big take away from the conversation with Brett C. Johnson, who is, she's a walk Boston person based in Springfield. As we had mentioned at the last meeting, she's the chair of their board. She used to live in the Boston area and now she lives in Springfield and she's doing advocacy there. But Springfield has really been trying to tap into complete streets funding and safe routes to school funding. A lot of other funding to do a lot of pedestrian and bike improvements. And I hadn't realized until she brought it up. But yeah, so the safe routes to school grant program, the larger one, they can be used for grants up to two and a half miles from the school for like intersection improvements and stuff. And I've heard, I mean, I haven't been part of the elementary school building process at all. But some people have reached out to me just about the walkability, bikeability issues, traffic issues, roundabouts, all that kind of stuff. And it seems like, I mean, for the most part, any kind of improvements or traffic improvements, transportation infrastructure improvements that wouldn't be on site that they wouldn't probably be covered by the MSBA money. So like there would need to be some other source of revenue money for that. And so I think, I mean, I think Springfield, they're trying to get like up to like a million dollars of safe routes to school funding. So that can help a lot. Yeah. There's also a couple other grant programs that she mentioned, even mass in motion could potentially do some sort of smaller projects around walking and biking safety. So it was a good conversation and a good start. And I think the challenge will be that the schools actually need to maintain engagement in order to unlock the funding. The plan for walkability and bikeability outside of the school sort of needs to be happening in concert with the planning for the school. So it's a bit of, you know, like, what's the word? It's like a concert of people all seeing their different parts in order to be able to get what we want, but... And the timing and things, right? So I mean, it's come up before that the Safe Recess School program did pay for some of the sidewalk improvements around near Wildwood, like on Strong Street and stuff. So Amherst House tapped into that money before, but as Christine said, we'd have like the town and the schools would have to get more active in the Safe Recess School program if they wanted to try to tap into the money in the future. But... It is getting to our finished time. So I'm not sure if there's any, if anyone has any other pressing issues they need to bring up before we're finished. In which case, Marcus, would you like to make a motion? I would, I was wondering if I could talk to Tracy afterwards though, but yes. Well, Gilford's running this meeting, so I'm happy to talk to you, Seth. Well, hopefully he doesn't leave and leave us as it is. Christine, do you have a... Well, I guess if they can make, I don't know, Gilford, if you make that a post, can you? But... Christine has a... Yeah, go ahead, Christine. Hi. I wanted to speak to Christine Lindstrom and to tell her that I haven't forgotten her question and I will get back to her. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Christine. You're amazing. Yes, she is. I agree. All right. So, well, everyone have a good night and we'll see you. What night did we decide on again? So we decided that we're gonna meet on the 19th. The 19th. And that's also gonna be the meeting of the TSO meeting. So we will only have an hour-long meeting that night. Tracy and Kimberly, did you want us to just be there in attendance? You know... I mean, I think we can do it. It doesn't, you don't have to. Okay, yeah. And there's other stuff on the agenda too. So I'm gonna need to check in with the TSO chair and make sure like we're actually on the agenda because there's other items that have gotten pushed like, you know, from agenda to agenda. So we'll see what we actually have. But thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Have a good night. All right. Thank you all. So Marcus, I'm happy to talk to you if you want to. Yeah. I just turned off the recording. I'm waiting.