 If you want to be unhealthy, mentally, spiritually, and especially physically, follow the world. The world moves in an unhealthy direction. Everything the world tells you to be sedentary, distracted to be alarmed, tells you not to meditate or pray or learn. Just consume, consume, consume. Don't listen to the world. One of the best things you could do if you want to be healthy. My favorite quotes. Shut up, Mother Earth. The majority is not always right, sometimes the majority just means all the fools are on the same side. Yeah. Love that quote. No, I mean, if you think about it, right, the world serves, you know, the human desire mostly. And we desire to distract ourselves. We desire to be sedentary, to not have any challenge. We desire to stay in the same place as comfortably as we possibly can. And so, following this, you know, this way, you find terrible health. Not just physical health, but mental health. And there's even spiritual health crisis where people are losing a sense of meaning. You see depression, anxiety, continue to rise, even though we have more stuff, more food, more shelter than ever before. And then health, obviously physical health, I don't have to make that argument. And it's literally, I mean, this is 100%. If you want to be healthy and all those things, you got to be different than almost everybody you know. You have to literally not buy the things, consume the things, watch the things, do the things that everybody else does. Or that's exactly enough. You got to advocate for yourself. It's crazy. You really have to look. It's so nuts to see how, you know, growing up, you listen to a lot of these institutions and a lot of these recommendations and standards and then, you know, you get older and more mature and you look into it further and you're like, wait, this wasn't helping me at all. In fact, it's the opposite of what I should be doing. Totally. Isn't that frustrating? That we probably all shared in common. I mean, obviously, well, before any of us knew each other, I know I was like this. I'm pretty sure both of you were like this too. When you grew up, like, I was totally not the kid who was trying to fit in with a certain group or do what everybody else did. Like, I liked the fact that I was different, you know. Now, what I try and, so it's hard to remember like where that came out of. Like sometimes I think it probably came out of necessity and survival because I bounced around so much. I didn't have. So you just embraced that you were always the outside. Yeah, yeah. So I think there was probably a moment or a moment in time where I might have been challenged with it, but quickly realized that that wasn't going to change. I wasn't overnight going to become the rich kid who had all the enclose or what do I thought. I moved around enough towns that, you know, in some cities and some towns, I was, you know, the ethnic kid and then other ones that was the white kid. And so it was like, I didn't fit in in a specific demographic or group. And so I think quickly I realized like, Jesus, I don't even want to try and fit into these because I don't naturally go into anything. And so I embraced this being unique and different and definitely served me into adulthood. It could have gone the opposite direction, right? Like trying so hard to be accepted, right? I didn't move at all. You and I couldn't have lived more in many ways, not always, but many ways more different lives. I lived in the same house mostly for most of my life. My parents still live there. So very consistent. But I definitely, I felt different. I wasn't stimulated by the same conversations. I saw what kids were into. And some of it I was, some of it I wasn't. And I just kind of felt, I don't know, like I wanted to learn other things. And I really didn't care too much what other kids were into. I would be into something and I'd go for it. I wasn't embarrassed about it to a fault. Sometimes I think I go against the grain because I hate so much to go with the grain. Yeah, I was such a non-conformist, man. I don't know why just it's just one of those things. Like I just didn't relate at all to a lot of people I grew up with and my family even it was just like, I just was into way different things. And then it's like, you know, is there something wrong with me? And like, you start kind of going down that, you know, negative path. And then you start realizing, you know, well, I'm just different. I'm different than everybody else around me. And that's fine. And then I'd sort of leaned into that more as I grew up later and found like a few people kind of like me. But it was like, it was weird. It was like, I just always felt like, man, I'm out of place here. I'm out of place here. And I didn't travel or move a lot. It was just like, it's just one of those things. Everybody kind of had the same sort of think and I just wasn't there with it. That has to be a quality that like connected all of us. A hundred percent, because we're different. We didn't know. Yeah, we're very different. We came, we all had very different backgrounds, but we all are. I mean, to a fault, I'm a non-conformist, too. Oh, I know. There's big times, right? I really want to do something because everybody else is doing it now. I'm like, fuck, I can't do it. I kind of hate that I'm a red boy, but I have to be that way. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I really want to do it. I told Katrina this just the other night. We're talking about, I can wear a uniform, I swear. I told her, I was telling her, I was like, you know, I really, I really want to get into jiu-jitsu. She's like, well, then why don't you do it? Everybody does it. Because I'm like, everybody's doing it. That's why. Exactly. She said, you're so funny. I'm like, well, that's a problem for me. I'm saying, because everybody's doing it, I don't want to do it. I could totally relate. No, I, you know, I was like that was for me. The first time I ever felt like I like, oh, this is where I'm supposed to be was when I started working in the gym. But it wasn't the gym where I felt like I belonged. I love the gym. I always like working out, work out my own. I don't, it doesn't matter where I work out my garage, my backyard at a gym. I enjoy it because it's my thing. But it wasn't the gym that I felt like I belonged. It was the, the atmosphere. And very quickly, I was put in a leadership position and I just enjoyed doing that. I enjoyed working with people, feeling motivated, learning, teaching, growing. I met a lot of growth minded mentors during that period of time. It was a great period for anybody who ever worked for 24 hour fitness in the late nineties, early 2000s. You guys did. It was a great, like super growth minded time. It wasn't always good stuff that I learned, but everybody was always trying to like be better. So that was the first time I really felt like, oh, this is a place I belong. Well, one of the things that is the, one of the few positive things I have found in the Bay Area is it's such a melting pot and you have so many different types, like so many of cultures and races and religions. And people are things that people are into. A lot of really smart people. Dynamic and interesting. Yes. Did you guys learn, you know how much I learned from my clients? It's, I feel like I got several degrees just from learning from the clients. Oh yeah. I mean, how, how families operate, how people work towards business and their goals of different cultures, value, different things. Like I really appreciate it. That was one of my favorite parts of being a trainer was I felt like I got faster. I almost felt like I got to be a world traveler without ever leaving my city in a sense, because we got to train so many different people from so many different parts of the world with so many different backgrounds. I felt like it gave me a chance, even though I didn't travel and go there. And I know some people that are big enough to travel and would be like, oh, it's not the same as like getting your feet on the ground and being there like, I get it. But at least I felt like I got a piece of that. But you developed close relationships with different people, which has got its own value. Sure. Because these are people you train. I mean, one of the things that's valuable about this, and you know what's interesting now that we're talking about this, this probably feeds into that attitude that all of us have about not immediately going along with the crowd and obviously being, you know, skeptical is you train so many different people. And in order to be successful, by the way, you create intimate relationship with your clients or close relationship because you see them week in and week out for years. If you do a good job, you see somebody for two hours a week, undivided attention for five, six, seven. I had clients that had for 12 years. Like you get really close to people and some of them are old. Some of them are young. Some of them work in a desk job. There's some people that are blue collar, different cultures. And in order to be effective, you have to really accept all these different things and work with them and move with them and communicate with them and learn from them. And I think that that gives you that that perspective gives you so much. You get such a broad view of things that I think it's almost like almost like a lie detector with the world. Like, well, actually, I know people who don't do that. Yeah, this way or they believe this thing and it works out for them. Yeah, you learn a lot with all these different characters that you've come across, especially with the clients I've trained and just the way that people think differently, the way that they communicate differently with, you know, body language, like all these types of things. Because you're always observing as a trainer, too. Like you're trying to look at like, what's their energy coming in? Like, can I see whether or not they're in a certain mood? Is, you know, are they affected by work or like some kind of relationship? Like you can read a lot from people before they even speak an utter a word. And so that was just something that I started to kind of, you know, really observe and lean into a bit more. And it was cool because you could get so much variety, especially like when we were at 24, our fitness, it was like just a nonstop sort of factory conveyor belt of clients that you're just like, Oh, my God, I got to like break this down and analyze it and do my detect, put my detective hat on and figure out how to help this person. It's such a beautiful and fruitful, uh, you know, career choice. And I know we a lot of times discourage people from going that direction because of how hard it can be as far as making a lot of money, right? It's not just creating a career, supporting your family. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a, it's a hard job. The hours are unique because you tend to have to work around, uh, client schedules, which is early in the morning, later in the evening, or after, after work hours for most people. Yeah. So most successful trainers are working two shifts twice a day, four and four. Yeah. And probably six days a week because you have three, three on three. All right. You have the three day split type of deal. So it's normally a six day a week. It's normally eight, 10 hours with these four or five hour blocks that are divided in the middle day. So it's a really can be, to be very successful at it, right? And, and even then you're not going to get rich probably worth those, but the, it is incredibly rewarding for all the things that we're talking about. And we don't highlight that a lot, right? We, we talk a lot about the challenges and difficulties, but I tell you what, I wouldn't do anything different. I'd go back and do it the same way again, like even going through that I might have made pivots sooner. Like I definitely think that, um, I got caught in that paradox. I talked about before where you, when you're comfortable, you know, so for about four years I was comfortable in a position where I should have like, I wish I had a mentor or an older wiser person telling me, like, and, and for those that are listening, like this to me is, it was when it's time to move on from whatever career you're doing is when you stop growing and learning within the ecosystem that you're in, when you can honestly go, I'm not really growing more as an individual. And what I did is I took that on as my own responsibility to go read and so that's what that's, that's, I know exactly what that feeling feels like, you know, when it starts to feel like to me, I stopped wanting to show up. Yeah. Yeah. I just stopped feeling like your service quality, everything kind of diminishes. Yeah, it's a, it's a terrible feeling. Well, what it was for me in, in, in, I had a really later on had a hard time reconciling this because the way I justified it during the, during the process was I knew I could give, you know, 75% and I'm not sharing this pat myself or ego boost or anything like that, but I knew I could give 75% at my profession and it was better than everybody else that my peers and, but that was, that's like, I'm, I'm robbing myself. Yeah, you're like on autopilot though. Yeah, it was like, oh yeah, I can, I can, I can give this, this job half ass and I'm still out competing my, my peers, not growing and I stayed in that place for almost four years, four years of my life. Yeah. I was probably stuck there and, and again, justified that because I was still having some success. I liked being in the gym. I attached it to all these things that we're talking about, like, oh, I still love my clients and I was getting stuff from them, but really, from a, from a business perspective, I wasn't growing anymore and I probably should have moved on, but that being said, I would have never done anything different as far as like working in a big box gym and being a trainer and cutting my teeth that way. No, I, I, if you have a passion for people and you like fitness, then it's very rewarding. If you don't have a passion for people, this job sucks because you're working eight. I mean, I could pull it off. I, well, that's what I'm saying. You quit because even if you're blessed with 40 hours of, you know, 40 sessions a week as a trainer, okay? So you like, you don't have to worry about getting clients, which you won't get if you don't like people. But let's just say somebody gave you 40 sessions a week. That's 40 hours in front of somebody that you're working with. You're not at a desk. You can't just walk away from your computer and get some water. You're with somebody that whole time. If you don't have a passion for people, you will be exhausted. It will not feel invigorating. Now, if you have a passion for people, then it's, it's invigorating. I mean, I'd be tired and a client would come in and we'd have, you know, conversation or it asks them things or see what's going on and learn things from them. I used to love, that's why I used to love training older people. I would ask them all kinds of life advice and they would sit there and just tell me like so many interesting things about their lives. Oh, so cool. I mean, I didn't know we were going to go this direction in the conversation, but this, I just recently had a conversation yesterday with the RVP of 24 Hour Fitness and, you know, we've been in, in consistent conversation about our coaching program and it's just, I was sharing with him like, I mean, it's so cool that this year that we partnered with NASM and now here we are in conversations with 24 Hour Fitness and I'm like, how cool would that be to be able to kind of complete that full, like. That'd be weird. In ASM, I think of like, was like our, was probably the schooling for us when we were coming up and I think of our parents as 24 Hour Fitness. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like so, so to kind of to partner up with them as a company, you know, almost 10 years later for us, I think is so cool. That'd be so wild. It's so cool that we're already partnered with NASM and I just posted that. Like we obviously we've mentioned it because we started the commercials for them a couple of weeks ago but I just recently posted the, you know, the official NASM as partnered with 24 Hour Fitness, I mean with Mind Pump and getting all kinds of people like, oh my god, that's so crazy and it's just like, it is crazy when you think about how. That was the first, like, legit sir I had. Oh. First one. Actually the first sir I had was the 24 Hour Fitness sir. They had the wrong sir. I'll tell you guys that. That was my first. I had that too. I did a weekend and got that one. Yeah and then I did NASM and that's where I really started learning. So you know that they went, so from you and I, it was a full week course by the time Justin came through it was a weekend course and then eventually they got rid of all of it completely. And by the way, one of the things we were talking with him, this is one of the challenges we're having. So that was done by Apex, right? Yeah. It's funny you bring that up because when we were having this conversation, him and I, he really sees as us being the Apex for them like Apex was back in the days. He goes because they were a great farm system for them. For trainers. For good trainers. That's one of the things they're challenges right now. When they hit through COVID, they cut 60% of their workforce. So 60% of it and they had about 4,500 trainers working for the company. So you're talking about like 2,000 trainers left and they're struggling to get talented good trainers working for them. And so their hopes I think of potentially doing something with us is that we provide a farm system for them much like what Apex did. Listen, the problem is, the problem is very clear. If you are, if you're passionate about people, you like fitness and you're growth-minded. Okay. I could take you and with 100% certainty, unless you're like super lazy, got terrible, you got some drug habit or something weird. If you have those things and you're willing to kind of work, I could make you successful 100%. 100%. I know you guys feel the same way. The problem and why that's not the case with people that become trainers who love people, passionate about people love fitness and are growth-minded. The problem is nobody teaches them how to do that. They don't really, nobody really coaches and learn, you know, and mentors them on how to do this. This is why you see such a huge difference between when you see good clubs with good fitness managers versus comparable clubs with not great fitness managers, the difference in the training staff and the training staff revenue and how many clients get trainers is dramatic. Oh yeah. It's like massive, the difference. It's because just don't get the training, you know, it's all about the training. Yeah, there was an old saying at the club that there's no such thing as bad clubs, only bad leaders, you know, and then they've proved that many times where they took a club where, I mean, I remember when there was times when they were going to shut a club down because it was underperforming. They put the right manager. Yeah, and they put the right, they put the right leader in there and then all of a sudden it breaks records. And so that's a perfect sample of like how a club, literally this was, I remember when they did this with Larry Evans, I remember when I took over the Capitol McKee location, I followed somebody and it was like, they were underperforming, a different person comes in and then it not only rebounds, but then it sets records from that. I mean, that's a huge example of like it wasn't the club that was underperforming. It's the culture that was developed in it and it is a top-down thing. The gyms have a culture for sure. You can feel it when you walk in. There's a for sure culture and that has a big impact on the club's success, both with how many people they sign up and then how many members show up and want to work out and want to be there. It's about the culture. I think a lot of people think it's about the equipment, but it really isn't. I've worked in some clubs. Man, one of the, I managed, I managed Sunnyvale before they remodeled, whatever. Man, that club was old. I mean, we had weights that didn't match and when it rained, the ceiling would collapse and the pool would be broken after. Green pool. Yeah, but it was one of the original clubs. They had racquetball, you know, like Capitol was one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And but we, you know- What number was it? It was 506. 506, yeah. Hillsdale was 504. Capitol's 505. 505. So Hillsdale, Capitol. Yep, those are the first ones that they put together. By the way, with the NASM, they're offering our listeners a discount on their certs. So the all-inclusive, I believe the all-inclusive is, I want to say 1249 or the premium self-study, sorry, it's 1249. They'll get it for 899 and they're offering discounts with their CPTs across the board. So whether you get the self-study, the premium, or the inclusive. They also offer on all their stuff, which they didn't do this in the past, which this is the coolest part about, or at least what I think is one of the coolest things is they offer monthly payment plans on it. Yeah. They didn't do that back in the day. They didn't do that back in the day. Yeah, you had to come up with the cost up front and when you're trying to build your business, spending thousands of dollars on certifications sometimes, as much as you want them, you're like, oh god, I'm not even making that much money. Yeah. Do you have to still pay for the retest? I know that was another thing. If you fail? If you fail. I'm sure you do. Yeah. I'm sure if you fail, you still got it. I don't know what it was. We could find out. We could find out. Yeah, what it is. But no, I think that's... Yeah. It's incredible what they're doing or the things that they're offering for free now in addition and the things that they're complimenting all the certification courses with. They're trying to take over the... Incredible. Well, I'm curious to see if there's like any kind... Because I know there's been an influx of people interested after COVID and everything else of getting into the health space, of like actually being interested in becoming a trainer through a corporate gym versus now going into like a smaller box or like online. It'd be interesting to see like the motivation of somebody coming in. We obviously recommend going through the corporate gym route because it's the proving grounds. It makes it face to face. It's the hands-on. Yeah, and they'll give you... They'll give you tons of marketing. You have tons of opportunities at gym. Yeah. Way more leads. Makes no sense to start as a personal trader. No. In a small studio. Yeah, but you don't know that. Unless you have great mentor. Unless you have a strong entrepreneurial background before getting into personal training. Sure, sure, sure. Because that's a bit of a business acumen to understand that. Yeah, that's true. To know that marketing and advertising, lead generation, repetition, all those things are a major factor in the success and the scaling rate of any business. If you don't really understand that, like a lot of trainers that are just really dipping their toes in entrepreneurship, you don't realize that. They go by like, oh, I like this gym, or it's close to my home, or it has the equipment that I like, or I like the other five trainers that work here in this private studio or whatever. And they don't realize like, that is not a big part of your business at all. A big part of your business is just access to leads. And you're just not going to get that many leads like you are in a big box gym that's getting 2,000 plus workouts a day. You're not going to get the practice of your craft. Yeah, so I still recommend that. When you do the self-study the self, what is that, the self-study premium? Is that what that one is? Yes, self-study premium. Then you can get an exam retest. Oh, okay. That's cool. Oh wow, that's cool. Let me do that before. The one thing I don't know about that I want to know about and I see it on the thing because Doug's got up on the screen right now is that the job guarantee. They have a 90-day job guarantee. You get a refund of a certain amount is what it is. See if we can find out what that amount is. It's not the total, but within 90 days if you don't get a job, there's a job guarantee amount that they refund you. Is what I believe. So you'll get some sort of... Send that to Katrina so she can get those exact details because I find that really interesting that they... I mean, that's a big deal to build. That is a big deal. It's a great deal. Which they'll also highlight probably the success rate of trainers that go through an NSF. Yeah, totally. You know, don't have a hard time getting a job. Today's giveaway is MAPS PED. This is the most advanced program, probably mostly inappropriate for all of you because it's a lot of training, but you can win it. But you have to do this. In the first 24-hour period that we post this up, you need to leave a comment below this video. Also, subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications if you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also, this month's program sale MAPS Anywhere and MAPS Hit. 50% off. Go sign up. Click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. All right, you know what else... The employers love it. You know what else? It's a big deal. What? You look... How much weight you lose with it? What are you down? I don't want to... I don't walk into that. Tread lightly, dude. You look like a fashion... Easy, dude. My wife said to me last night that I was... She said lean, but she didn't say it in a complimented way. Oh, no. Mid-sex, dude. It was totally ruined the moment. No, dude. Yeah, yeah. Was this all for the Viori shoot that we have to do? Yeah, I didn't know. What do you follow up? It's sporty. It's sporty, Adam. Follow up, mid-sex. She's like... Mid-sex, bro, my wife. I don't know what she's doing. She's like, you look smart. Yeah. I almost shut it down right there. Why would you say that to me right now? We're right in the throes of this right now, and you're going to say... Maybe afterwards when I'm tired. In a non-complimented way, because she even followed it up with like, I don't know if I like it or not. Oh, my God. And then I find myself... I'm like defending myself in the middle of sex. Like, hey, I'm flat right now. I haven't got any car behind me. You're all flexing extra. I'm like, you're not helping this situation right now at all. I'm trying to embrace this, like, getting leaner and small... You know, smaller and kind of shrinking down and seeing how my body feels. Oh, my God, that's hilarious. Aside from the... I also... You know, this isn't all from the trezeppatide because I also caught my son's flu bug. Yeah, that's right. And so I have for the last three days... You had the poopies. Yeah, the f***ing things. For the last three days, I've had... Medical term. I've had the stomach flu a bit, and just real mild. Like, I didn't get hit like as bad as he did, but I've had it. But interesting to be right in the middle of doing this trezeppatide while also getting a stomach flu is like, I have like... You don't want to eat nothing? Nothing. I have no desire for food at all. So, yeah. No, I'm down 10 pounds right now. No, a lot of that's probably water weight. Yeah, you're probably good. You're probably... Oh, yeah. I'm going to pass that as well. Well, I'd put three... I'd put three pounds right on on a full day of eating right away. So, you know, I'm probably down though with solid seven pounds. If I had to guesstimate in the last two and a half weeks or so that we've been running the trezeppatide and so... And still really fascinating what's going on with it. And I feel, aside from the flu bug, I feel really good. Like, I'm going to keep going and just allowing it to unfold. I was... You know, Doug was bringing up a point of like, oh, man, that's probably not good. You're that low. I said, you know, but I don't want... The thing that's going to be most challenging is to not let my wife get in my head, not let my... I'm going to send her a text right now. My knowledge... Adam's really insecure in that kind of stuff. My knowledge around macros and what I need to have a certain amount of muscle in my body. Just be fattening up all your food. I really want to go through this process like I was a client who's kind of unaware a bit. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I'm trying to be really like... Really, I love it. And just let it go and then express my feelings through it. That way I... You have a real good opinion. Yeah, because I definitely know how to go through this and manipulate it, accelerate it one way or mitigate... And they don't know if it's doing it really well. Yeah, then mitigate the fat... The muscle loss because I'm stuffing myself with protein and not like, I don't want to do that. Like, I'm going to eat when I'm hungry. I'm going to really try and go off The interesting part is the urges for junk food at all have just not been there. How was your... Are you working out? Well, you haven't because you've been... Not the last three days. But I was before that. I'm interested to see how your performance is. You're going to have to wait though until you can do that. Yeah, I'm a bit weak right now. I mean, I know I'm weak. Like I'm... I lifted... I squatted the other day and it was more challenging than usual. And so... But I mean, that's calorie deficit for two weeks. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I mean, this might feed right into your basketball goals. Yeah. Secretly, that's my goal. Secretly, I'm like, I'm going to go with it and lean into it. Part of leaning into it was like, Hey, if I keep getting leaner and leaner and smaller and smaller... So if you're light and you're bouncy, you know, that's... And I'm less likely to get injured. And so that's kind of the idea. It's like, I'm going to... Which is also... I didn't want to talk too much about it because then everybody was asking. Where do you play? I don't play anywhere right now. No, no. If you do, if you start someplace... We should start a league, bro. Like, whoa. So that's actually a really... That's actually a really... Old guy league? Funny, interesting question. No, there's like... We've talked about this before about... Do you do this? That's the old man league. No, there's a... I thought of this a long time ago. Remember when I was bodybuilding? You have to wear a new balance. I used to tell you guys that there is... And maybe this is angrier, you're like this. There is gym memberships, part of why I keep all of them is because where I'm at in my lifting career, I'm going to certain ones. Bodybuilder gym. Yes. You know, steam room gym. Just starting again, you know what I'm saying? You're like feeling myself in gym. You know what I'm saying? So I had different gyms. Just a Smith machine. I have different times to play basketball at different locations based off of where I'm at in my basketball game too. Like if I'm like going to go play my first pickup game, I'm going during the week around 10 o'clock in the morning to 24 fitness on Kottel. Like that's when all the 40 plus dads... Other point dads. Yeah, but... All the sloppies. What they got game. You know what I'm saying? They got game. They can play, you know what I'm saying? But it's not the... It's not the... They're not moving quick. Yeah. Then as I get better, I'll show up on, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday nights. After all the kids are out of school and now I get some of the high school, college kids that are playing like gang just love it. Then Saturday mornings at the Super Sport is like, now you're getting like kids that are playing... Oh yeah, they're still playing ball right now. And I better have made friends and connections on the way up to that because I won't even get in a game. Right. Yeah. Now you get picked up. I'll look like Billy Hoyle. They'll all walk in. They'll be like, Who the fuck's that guy? I didn't know he was going to pick him. Hopefully something's going to get a headband. That's how like, that's how crazy it is that in competitive it can get even in these gyms is if you don't, if you don't have your five and you roll up on a Saturday morning when it's, the whole place is packed to people. You're going to get cold. You'll sit, well you'll sit and watch four hours of basketball and never play. Exactly. Hey, you sit there. Hey, nobody's tooling your thumbs. There's no way, there's no way to get a turn in or something? Oh yeah. No, you will get picked up. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, you will get, you will get picked up. What'll happen if you're like, I get a turn. Oh, people just look. They don't even do the shoes. They'll tell you like, hey, go play on Tuesday mornings, bro. This is for a, you better, you better have a squad or you better, you better have a reputation if you want to get picked up on Saturday mornings. And so. Why got a mediocre spot for it at the high school up where I'm at? So I'll pull you in on that game. Yeah. You'll have to tell me like, you'd be fine in this. Okay. Yeah. So I like to start there. Now the problem with that though, the danger, it is the less, like I can't start it. It's such a low level that you have just a bunch of like park kids playing. Because then they, you get injured because then kids just do stupid. Progressive. Yeah. Kids that don't play the game, right? That are just out there running around the hell out of you. Yeah. And that's how you get hurt. That's how I tore my ACL. So when falling on my knees, it's like, that was just like a stupid other person doing it to me. Right. So yeah, there's definitely like a place where I'll play at a certain level of my game when my game gets to a certain place that I can graduate. Speaking of bouncy, we built a trampoline in the backyard, like a legit one. Justin Kim over here too. Did I tell you guys when I tried it? Did I tell you guys about this? Yeah. Did I tell you? What that was like? Bro, I jumped on it. Oh, shit! Got down from it. I wish I had a video of you jumping on trampoline. My wife was there like, oh, I'm sorry you saw that. Oh, man. Oh, man. Sorry, babe. Not my proudest moment. I gotta go do something sexy real quick to reverse this. I'm going to go deadlift right now. You want to watch me deadlift real quick? Oh, no. Yeah, I should have seen that. Make a little like a scream. Oh, I'm getting high. I feel like I can see you like flapping his flapping arms. Immediate pucker, dude. I don't scream though. I don't scream though. If I scream though. Like a hummingbird. I feel like it's really accurate. Dude, I really feel like that. No, no, no. Don't go screaming. There was no way to scream. Wow. Oh, that's terrible. But I, it's, you know, I'm having a little bit of a fitness, like what do we call it? Crisis right now. Oh, God. Yeah, no. So I've been, you know, I'm really, I'm actually, maybe, maybe I am, maybe I'm not, but I feel like I am right now. So we'll see, don't hold me to this, but I'm really trying to like, okay, we talked to so many people live. We help all these people who have a dysfunctional relationship with exercise and supplements and all that stuff. And I'm like, you know, I should probably visit my, my relationship with this stuff, you know. So this week, doing my normal, you know, workout schedule and we have family coming because we're, you know, Eastern, you know, we've got the holiday coming up or whatever. And Jessica's like, hey, do you, do you, would you mind working out, you know, in the garage on this day instead of going to the gym? And I'm like, no, I love the gym or whatever. And then I paused. I'm like, maybe I should take the rest of the week off. Maybe I should just not at all workout for the rest of the week. And so I told the rest of the, you know, this is a good opportunity for me to challenge myself because I never, never miss workouts. I mean, I worked out this morning and I literally got a grand total of probably four hours of sleep last night because my daughter, you totally would not tell your client to do that. No. So, uh, so I'm going to take the rest of the week off and then when I get back into it, I'm going to try to revisit how I don't know if I make you sweat thinking about that. It's very anxious right now. Yeah. I don't know if I want you, I don't know if I want you to fix this dysfunction right now. We need one maniac. That's going to put a lot of pressure on Justin. Yeah. What you know, if I try to get a skinny basketball guy, you start losing all your gains, you know what I'm saying? Justin's going to have to really step the fuck up. Oh, I'm feeling good right now. I'm not trying to. Because the only thing that was okay with me losing the bodybuilder look was there was like, oh, well, Sal's fucking jacked right now. At least one of them knows what they're doing right now. Doug and Justin, it's up to you guys. You know, I love when we get comments from people who don't know anything about us. Who the fuck are these guys? They don't even look like they work out. Oh my God. Average schmooze. That's so mean. Yeah. Everybody's so mean to bring. You get though why so many of these insecure fitness people have to do videos with their shirt off all the time just so they can prove. See, look at my muscles. Geez, I have them. I got muscles. It's bad, dude. It's a bad space. Well, speaking of mean, like I told you guys, I didn't get any sleep last night. Man, I had one of those moments where I was just, I was angry with my, she's only, you know, she's what is 16 months old. Would not sleep. I don't understand. Not sick. Nothing wrong with her. You know, I'm like, maybe she's sick. What's it? No, no, nothing. Just not sleep. I think she's going through one of those leaps where they're learning a lot because she just started walking. And so I think it's like a leap that's going on because the brain is forming all these new connections. Did you pull up the app? I felt that always helped Katrina and I. I'm going to find it. Yeah, I always helped Katrina and I when we had those moments. Because it always connected. Yeah, and it calms you down. It does. Because there's a, there's that part of the parent control. Yeah, she's probably fine right now. Like, yeah, you're like, this makes no sense. We did this, our routine is normal. Well, this is not like, why didn't you see like, Oh, okay, that makes sense. So last night, she's not sleeping all night, you know, on and off. Finally, Jessica's like, I'm going to have her stay in bed with us. So she takes her in bed, but she's not sleeping. So she's like pushing up against her mom the whole time about three a.m. And I'm not sleeping. I'm in and out, but I'm not really sleeping well this whole time. Right. Finally, you know, Jessica, she asked me very nicely. Can you please, you know, try putting her down because I just, I'm so tired or whatever. And I'm like, this is one of those moments when you reflect and like, what a dick. I'm like, I got up just kind of angry because I'm already, I'm mad. Like, we're not sleeping. And I take the baby and I put her in her bed and I walk away and she starts screaming again. Right. And so Jessica's like, what are you doing? I'm like, she's going to cry for a little bit. So of course, Jessica gets a baby and her and I get a little like mini argument about it. She goes downstairs and I was left alone to reflect, you know, and I'm like, fuck man, I just got mad at a baby. I just got mad at a baby. It's your boy, dog. And my daughter, and I just let my frustration take over. My wife sincerely needed help and she asked me nicely. Like, it wasn't like she did anything mean to me. So I'm like apologizing and so, but good moment for us to connect because that could have turned into something much bigger, you know, type of deal. Did you guys do the 10 minute cry method? That's what we use. That worked really well for us. You know, I know there's a million different ways that everybody swears by. That worked really good for us. You know, we did something else. So Raelius was really tough. We did something else with him, but one of the people that we worked with and we really liked, you know, where she got her data science and also made logical sense, she said, what you don't want is a child. A child needs to be secure. So calling out to you and crying and that you show up and you're there helps them build security. It doesn't baby them. It doesn't make them, you know, some people will say, a baby's your kid or whatever. And I believe that evolutionarily, it would make no sense for a baby in the middle night in the Savannah to scream and mom leave the dinner bell basically going off for all the lines or whatever. So that makes sense. So the process that we did was more like you give them the security, but you slowly separate yourself. So, you know, at first you put the baby down and then you pat them on the back or rub their back. You sing to them. And then as they start to calm down, you take your hand off. If they start up again, you do that. You rub their back and then eventually you're just sitting by the bed and you sing to them when they cry. And then eventually you're outside the door, but when they cry, you pop your head back in or you sing from outside the door and then eventually you sing into the monitor and then you don't do it at all. That's similar to what we did. Okay. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. It was similar. So very similar. I would put Max down and I'd leave my hand there for a while and then I'd step away and I'd sit in his rocker. And then if he would see you. Yeah. So he knew I was in there and then I let him fuss for a little bit and say, lay down. It's time for bed. Learn to see themselves. So, yeah. So he knew I was there, but I wouldn't just go to or developing this. That's right, but I wouldn't go there and pick him up every time. So I wasn't being trained, that I get him every time he cries. And so then I would slowly do that and then eventually the final break is the 10 minute thing where it's like once we get out of the room, it was we would never let him cry for 10 minutes. So if it was nine, we let him go up to nine minutes and 59 seconds. And then if it was at that, we come in and then restarted all over again and soothe. And what I found is like it, we never really went past 10. I think maybe less than a handful of times we had to deal with the past 10. I tell you what though, so people who don't have kids or people who've had kids who never dealt with this because there are those parents out there like, oh my kids slept at ours right out the gates. Like, you know, go screw yourself. Because that's what I'm talking about. He was my friend. He was a kid with an angel. But if you're a parent and you have the average kid, like that is so challenging. There's nothing like it. Nothing will test your patience or your sanity like constant, poor sleep. The hardest I think Sal is when, because I never had a problem with, like we, when was the last, we just had something with Max being off. If his behavior is off and, you know, whether it's crying, not going to sleep or something like that. And I was inconsistent in something of the day. I don't have a problem. Like I own that. Like we, I take that like it's just like, God damn it. It's my fault. My fault. Got it. Where it's difficult is when you've been like consistent and then it's out of nowhere and you're like, can't, you can't connect the dots to like, how could I have been a better parent? Right? Like what could I have done better here? Yeah. One of the worst things is just having expectations where you, you have plans and they get thrown out the window because kid won't go to sleep. Like last night, you know, we had two nights of bad sleep previous because of my three year old. So leading into this, we're like, let's start it early. We'll set the candles. No TV. Right. Like we'll tell a quiet story. Get ahead of it. Yeah. We'll tell quiet stories. Jessica's like, oh, I had the kids outside all day today. They're totally going to go down. Lots of sun, you know, like, she's going to be exhausted. Oh, let's watch that series that, you know, Adam and Justin were telling, you know, you about the octopus one or whatever. Oh my, and we're like excited, you know, like this is going to be, and we get to go to bed early if we do this right. That definitely is because you got your guys' hopes all up. Oh, hopes were up. We're going to connect and hang out together and boom out the window, dude. Until three. So yeah, that definitely makes it worse. Oh, especially to if she did all those things because that used to be like the solid recipe. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Like for us, it was like, man, if we get him outside in that sun and playing all day, like it was pretty set. We're going to get him down pretty easy, but that sucks if you do all the right things. Terrible. Yeah. That's to me, that's where it's hard. Like I don't mind, or at least I never mind when, you know, it's part of a kid raising a kid is they're going to be difficult sometimes. Especially if you're like driving and traveling. Yeah. And like, for example, I remember when I was like, there was something that we just, Katrina and I both like, I love that she does this too. Like she, like Max was, I'm sitting at the, it was time for dinner and we were letting him play on his iPad. We get, he was sick. So we gave him more of it that day. We tend to loosen up the rules and boundaries on him when he's not feeling well. Sure. Like we're a little more loose with like this, the stuff that we hold him. So we allowed him to play more than what he would normally get. And it was time, time to eat. And I called him over to the table and he had his iPad with him. I said, no, no, no, not your iPad. You just come here daddy. And he looked at me and he was all sad and he just started crying. And instead of us getting frustrated and mad about it, Katrina apologized to him. Oh, I'm, I'm sorry son, I let you play too much today. Yeah. And it was like, and that, and like, so instead of getting frustrated at him because now he's throwing a fit because he doesn't get to do that, it's like, well, as his parents allowed outside of that, we know what that does. We know that if he plays more in about 20, 30 minutes on that thing, like in a day, like he's attached to it. You know how powerful that is to apologize to your kid, by the way, when you really genuinely mean it, to show them like that teaches your kid. Like I remember, I think my mom apologized me once. I don't think my dad ever did, but I know my mom did one time and I remember it because it was so impactful. Bro, it's so dope that I've seen him before because she's done that consistently when like he has a behavior that is a result of us not doing good parenting that he, I'm sorry, I had too much iPad. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, so, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't get good sleep last night. He's like apologizing for, and because we've been consistent with that. Dude, you know what this reminds me of? That I read a while ago and we did it with my three-year-old. So when a kid has a, let's say, a scary experience or a tough experience, especially when they're young, you can retell the story and make it a funny or remember that thing that happened and change the, the perspective. So I'll tell you what happened, right? So we were playing with the kids and Jessica was giving our three-year-old, she had like this, I don't know what it was, it was like a biscuit with peanut butter and he was gonna bite it. So he goes to bite it and bites her finger hard, like really hard and she screams, ah, scares the crap out of him. He starts crying, scares the baby, she starts crying. Then she, and she's holding her finger. It hurts really bad. Then she's holding both of them to try and calm them down and eventually we got him calm and it was okay, but it scared the kids, right? So later, wait a couple days, I'm like, hey, remember, remember when you thought mama's finger was a cookie and I start laughing and he starts laughing and Jessica starts laughing. Oh my God, that was so funny. And then he's like, mama's finger got hurt and I'm like, oh poor mama, but it wasn't a biscuit and we start laughing. Like you change the story and then when they look back on it, it's got a completely different perspective. I thought that was so brilliant. And it also shows, it also highlights how the negative side of that in families where you normalize bad behavior, right? Oh, it could go bad. It could go the other way, right? That's what happens when you grow up in a household where there's violence or abuse or lots of fighting and all this craziness. And it's so consistent and normalized that that's just how things are that we don't even overreact to it anymore. That kid ends up being an adult who then is attracted to a relationship like that because they interpret that. It could go both ways. Yeah, it goes both ways. So that's very powerful. I mean, it's great to be able to pick that up and see that and to reverse engineer basically that for the good, what you did. But this is a thing that I always think about as parents. I mean, we are 100% laying the foundation to how they view the world and communication and interpret everything, man. And so to ever think that how, I mean, Katrina and I even believe that where our emotional state is around him affects him. Like our energy. You know why? So that's a fact. So children, actually data on this, children are so attuned to their parents' emotions and moods because that is the person that helps regulate. It's like the pilot on an airplane or the flight attendant. If the plane's rocking and you look at a flight attendant and they look chill, okay, we're fine. You see the flight attendant freak out, then you start to freak out. And not only that, so kids are super attuned to how mom and dad are acting or whatever. So when your kid starts to act up and you think it's out of nowhere, oftentimes it's because of you. I've noticed that about me. It's almost, I think it's almost always. I mean, to me, like Katrina and I, we've trained ourselves that when it's like that, like... You ever notice when you're in a good mood, they're in a good mood? Yeah. When you're in a bad mood, they're in a bad mood. When we, when we nest, like instantly, it's like, okay, self-reflect, like, okay. That's what I mean. Like when you have a situation like you have where you can't connect it to you, that's where I'm frustrated. If I can connect it to me, like I can grow, I can learn. I go, oh, you know what? That's what I get. I brought work home, Katrina, or the baby heard me being frustrated about something that was going on in the business. Had nothing to do with him, wasn't even the same room, but he felt my energy. Therefore it changed his mood. And so it's like, okay, I got to be aware of that. But when things don't, or when things don't line up with anything, that's where it's tough. It's still lesson. I still learned a lesson, which is like, be more compassionate. Geez. So mad, you know? You get mad at your kid and your wife. I can diffuse so much more effectively when I can not allow it to get me frustrated and get me emotionally invested in whatever is going on. Because I mean, it happens so regularly. It'll be like just getting ready in the morning or something, and one of the kids is just on one. You know? It's just like, ah! And I could sense it, because then either Courtney or me will kind of get the brunt of it. And then if we don't react, then we don't allow that to kind of, okay. And then I can usually diffuse. I can make a joke. I can kind of come in and change the sort of narrative and reframe it a bit, and it works. And it's just like, okay, now they're out of it. But it's like, if I can't do that, it's like a bad day. There's this type of, I don't like the title of it. And in fact, I'm going to find an expert to come on our show to talk about. But it's called, and I don't like the way they labeled it, because it's misleading. It's called gentle parenting. I don't know if you guys have heard this. But the gist of it, and I'm not an expert in any way, like I said, I want to have someone on. But the gist of it is that you understand what is developmentally appropriate behavior. So like a two-year-old who throws their food on the floor, that's impulsive. And they haven't yet learned the skills on how to control impulse. They're still testing boundaries. A 12-year-old throws food on the floor, like, okay, this is a different conversation. But that's kind of what it's based on and understanding that oftentimes when kids act a particular way that isn't maybe desirable, that there's a need that isn't met. And as a parent, it's your job to figure out, okay, what's the need that's not being met? Why is my kid at, is it more time with me? Is it because they're underslept? They need more sleep? Is it because maybe something happened earlier and they don't feel like they can, nobody's talked to them about it? So it's this really interesting way of looking at raising kids. I thought, I think it's absolutely brilliant. But the title of it makes it sound like there's no structure, no boundaries. It's not that at all. No, it's interesting. It's got very good structure. I'm interested to read, or at least talk to somebody about it. Yeah, I found somebody that's really good that I'll have come on the show. I'm really struggling with the, you know, and I was just sharing before we got on the podcast with you guys, just how my son is so in tune with emotion. And because of all this great stuff that we've done and all this positive stuff, and then you see the other side of that where he's just so sensitive. Like they did this egg thing today, right? For hunting for eggs. And they line all the kids up and they have all these eggs out there and they, you know, they get them all ready. All right, ready, go. And a lot of these kids are faster, bigger than my son. And so they all take off in front of them. And he only takes about four or five steps. And then he just, he puts his hand over his face and he just starts crying. And he's just like, they're gonna get all the eggs. And the teacher set it up to where every kid can only get 12 eggs. That's the problem that I see because the natural lesson there, if there is a lesson is, oh, I didn't move fast enough. I didn't get as many eggs. Then you as dad, all you got to do is show up and be compassionate. That's how I feel. That sucks, buddy. I'm sorry. You don't have to say anything. He'll figure it out. Like I got to be faster next time. Yeah. But they give all the kids the same. So they make them race, but everybody gets eggs in there. And also you get to see kind of which kid shine in that moment in terms of like, if it's the kid that like gets all of them and then he looks and he sees like, you know, somebody that's having a really hard time will like offer eggs to them or something. You're not allowing these kids to self-regulate. That's how I would have liked. 100%. That's how I like it was, I think that where they failed as the school is by, like you said, they turn it into a competition, but then it's not really a competition because then you let everybody get 12. So you don't get the lesson. All you get is the hard. So it's like, why do that? Instead, why not just let it be a free for all? And then let's see how the kids regulate and then teach through that process. Like we did like hunting with eggs last year with Max. And Max was actually the older kid with little kids. And that situation does fine because he's grabbing them quicker than them. And then he did exactly what you said. Like he had all of them and the little kid was having, and so he takes some of his eggs out. Oh, come on, what a great kid. And he's giving the other kid some of his kids, you know what I'm saying? So he's got those incredible qualities. But man, when he's the underdog and everybody blasts past them and stuff like that, like he doesn't have that drive. That makes me so upset because what they did is they took the hard part of competition and they left it, but they didn't include the part where you grow. So it's like, why strive? You ever hear that experiment where the professor tells all the students, I'm going to take the top grade and I'm going to average it with the worst grade and everybody's going to get that grade. It was something like that. And eventually everybody just started getting an F because why strive if it's going to go down here and kill everybody? Yeah, so like why have kids compete if there's nothing at the end where you can sit down with them and say, oh, I'm sorry that didn't work for you because that's a really good lesson. Hey, that sucks. You know, I'm sorry about that. And they'll figure it out. Like, ah, maybe I got to be faster. Yeah, and there's the other part of me too that I, so I mean, I told you guys that, you know, after talking to the teachers and everything like that, that he, his emotionally, he's still young for his class, right? So he's already young for his class age-wise and emotionally, he's younger than a lot of kids. And so they've recommended that we hold him back one more year. And so like there's that part of me as a dad of like trying to also be patient. Like, you know, well, maybe this will be different in a year when he's more developed and he's more confident. And these, maybe some of these- How old is he right now? He's four. You know, there's a big difference between a four and a five-year-old. Right. So there's difference. Right. And so I understand that. Like, I mean, I didn't even go to school till I was five. My son's been in school three, having to learn all this stuff and do all these things. So I have to recognize too that, you know, okay, what happens when it's next year, maybe he's more of the confident kid and maybe he's more aggressive then at that point. So I'm trying to balance that, you know, oh, I want him to be more aggressive and be, you know, less sensitive about something like that. I mean, hey, tough shit, kid, you get no eggs. You know what I'm saying? You got to be faster next time. Like, there's that part of that dad of me that wants to be like that, right? Because there's a good lesson there, you know what I'm saying? That's fucking life. You know what I'm saying? When you get older as a adult, there's not 12 eggs for everybody. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's not how it works. And if they promise everybody the same amount of eggs, get the hell out, they're about to put it in. That would want to be, right? In the gulag or something. So, yeah, I saw, you know, I have this push-pull feeling. It's very good that probably his mom was there to handle it because she probably handled it better than I would have handled something like that because that part of me, like, I just, that hurts my heart inside because I don't want my, of all the things I tell you that I like, I want my son to be able to overcome adversity and have thick skin to be tough. I mean, and confident, like that's those, the attributes that I want to pass on to him. And I know that I got a lot of mine from the unfortunate shit that I went through. So it's like, you know, and he's not getting none of that. I wonder, I wonder where you'd be if you had like a good, like a really, like good, like non-traumatizing child. Like, what if you would be like, I don't know, like Elon, like, you know, who knows where you, maybe in spite of all that, that's where you're at. Because that's a tough situation to come out the way that you did. Yeah. Not a lot of people would have done that. Yeah, I don't know. You know, I, I think it's because of that. I think you would have been done well no matter what. I wonder if you've been wired, yeah, to seek out like adversity anyways, you know, it's like, it's one of those things like, you wonder genetics, like the coding in there, you know, because there's some kids like that that are in a really privileged, like beneficial environment, grew up great, but are just like so incredibly driven and just are killers. I've got the, that young kid JT, I'll tell you about, like he's my hope, right? Because like when I hear his dad's story, it reminds me of my story. Self-made guy. He grew up well. Yeah, and so, but he grew up extremely privileged, very, very privileged, but he's, would never think he's a privileged kid because he's got incredible work ethic, he's incredibly successful. Yeah, it's awesome. He's very self-aware, he's smart, like, I mean, he's a 20-something-year-old kid hanging out with a bunch of 40-year-olds, and I would say he's one of the most emotionally mature ones that have all of us in the group. You know, it's interesting, you know that they, okay, so this is connected, trust me, you know, you could clone your, I think we talked about, you can clone your dog. Yeah. So if your dog dies, They say some of the genetic traits are in it. They say some of them the same, but they say they're not the same dog. So they'll say, oh, you think you're gonna get the exact same dog, but you don't. No, because some of the behaviors. Yeah, because I mean, I know that, remember I told you that, I mean, I know that from Nature and Nature, it's not Nature, yeah. I watched how I, when I had my two Bulldogs, how I really, my poor, my first one Bentley, the older, bigger one, the bigger, stronger one, I was so hard on him with the puppy Masi, because he was a puppy and he was little and he was smaller, and that I would, like, I would get him, I'd whack him if he would ever attack him or wrestle aggressive with him. I didn't let Nature kind of take his course and let him defend themselves and stuff like that. I intervened so much that when they got to a teenage years, he was afraid to defend himself because. And they just always remained that way. Oh, yeah. And so then the other, the younger little one would attack him all the time and punk him and just like treat him, and it was like, I know I created that. Like that wasn't genetically in that dog. Like that's definitely environmental, that like I created that for that. Intervened, yeah. That's no different than kids. Like if you, so there's a little bit of both. And I'm sure there's things to your point about like, what I saw, like I was in sports, right? And I think if I was in an environment with a good father figure, who helped me learn lessons through sports other than like trying to figure it out myself. Like I learned those lessons, but a lot of those are like later. Like when I reflect, I go like, oh yeah, I learned how to work with others. And oh yeah, I wasn't the most talented. So I had to put in the extra work. It wasn't like I was doing it because I had a dad who was just like, hey son, they're more athletic and give them to you. If you want to beat them out, you need to do these things. I had to figure that out and then looking back. Like maybe if I had like a household like you're saying, and I played things like sports, because I know like when my son gets in sports, I can't wait to, I hope he does. Part of why I hope he does, not just because I want to vicariously live through them, but also because I think it's a really easy tool to teach some of these lessons. That's a great way to do it. It's such a great, I mean you have to. You put all there. Yes. It's the world that's put in a game. Yes. Leadership in there, their cooperation. How to follow properly, how to lead. Losing. And all of it. Like yes, like controlling emotion, being disciplined. Yeah, there's so many lessons within sports. And of course the kid might naturally learn some of it, but imagine having a good parent who knows how to see that stuff and coach through it. Along those lines, I've had now several people tell me this who are either psychologists, therapists, or who we consider expert on raising children. And they say that if you're the kind of parent that thinks about and actively looks for ways to be a better parent, you already are among the top 10% of parents. So if you're that kind of mom or dad that like reads about it, thinks about it, how can it be a better whatever, you're already killing it. Because most people don't even think. The bar's pretty low, I guess. There's two sides to that. I mean, it's finally got it. Well, I do better, you guys. You know what most people do is they just default to how they were raised. They don't question anything. No, you're right. That's the truth. The truth is. That's really what was modeled is what they repeat. Yeah. I mean, I've been saying that for a while now that, I mean, I told Katrina that when we first got together that I want to be a generational character in my family, which is also why I waited for a while to have my son. I wanted to be more prepared to be that person, to shift, to shift that completely. Because I don't want to pass down. I don't want to inherit any of a lot of the traits in our family tree. I don't want to pass any of them down. Like I want to break all that stuff. And so a lot of that comes with just emotional maturity and being wiser and more experienced. So that was part of waiting as long as it is. It's the hardest job, dude. Hardest job in the world. Anyway, I got to tell you guys that we work with Caldera and it's got to be one of the more interesting questions or compliments that I often. I've had now several people talk about my skin specifically and I recommend Caldera. Nobody's ever said anything to me about my skin before. Until, you know, maybe it's because I'm older. I wonder if it's because I'm older and they expect my skin to look like this. I think it's probably the hair color like it. Because I've had that before, you know. I think you've got a nice surprise of a 60-year-old. You have wrinkles and you're doing pretty well. Thanks. It's also the brand in partnership that I get the most non-fitness friends and people connected to me that reach out. So I get a lot of people that either one have seen the commercial. Even if they haven't seen the commercial, they've heard about the brand or they know that it's connected to me somehow and they're curious about it. They have nothing to do with fitness or they're not liking the health at all, but they are very interested in looking younger and feeling younger type of deal. And so Caldera has been popular. I think, speaking of Caldera, I think that they do the best. And this is to all the other partners that are listening. They do the best with commercials and ads. Oh, because they clip our show or clip what we say, put it in a great ad. Yes. They're the best-looking ones. It is. It always looks good. I mean, and we like, we're about to do this right now. When we hang these mics up, we have to go and do a photo shoot for one of our other partners. And so that it's like... We love photo shoots. The least favorite thing. Yeah. It's crazy. And we've tried to deter like telling people, no, you got to pay us this much to do that. And they're like, okay. It's like, oh, God, I'm trying to get away from it. Now, what do you think it is? Do you think... I feel like it's because I hate... It's the least authentic. Yes, it feels fake. It's the least authentic. Even though it's not... You feel like the guy with the protein shaker cup like, yeah, it just appeared right here weird. I can't do it. I'll make you fun of myself. Well, this is why I like Caldera so much because what they do is they do a really good job of cutting these natural commercials and stuff that where we talk about them in there. And that's very authentic. This is an authentic conversation. I had no idea that's what you're going to say or how you're going to say it. And so that it comes off that way. And like, I mean, every one of us, or at least I know you and I, are wearing Viori pants and clothes. Like just having that on and wearing that, that's all authentic and normal for me. But then if I had to go out and go pose, wearing them, to me, that's just like... Like drinking yourself out. I don't know. To me, it's always been interesting because I've hung around models. Obviously, I do a lot of the shoots for all our maps programs and for a lot of these things. And even before that, I was interested in maybe going the actor route and all that, but I just couldn't do it because everybody's so weird. It takes a certain kind of personality to really like, hey, look at me. Well, maybe, hey, maybe part of why we don't like it is that we suck at it. I mean, that's the real, that's the real real. You know what I'm saying? Maybe if we were really good at it, we'd be embracing a little bit more. It's a little bit like, we suck is what it is. It doesn't come natural to anyone of us. I like to think we're just too good at beating ourselves and not something else. See, that's what I like. I like the positive spirit. Yeah, I got them spinning. Yeah, you might be right too. Well, you know, what it reminds me of, so you guys, I don't know. I mean, I think I've talked to you guys about this before. I was so resistant to practice posing for men's physique. And you got, there's like a, there's a, you have, there's a routine. Yeah, I know. You got to do a routine. That's making me laugh. I remember how stiff. Now that I know you as well as I do, at first I didn't know you super well. It makes perfect sense. But knowing you as well as I know now is like, how did you get through that? Bro, you know how funny, how funny this was? I actually, for most of my prep, okay, getting ready for my very first show, I had the attitude that I was, I'm going to smoke these fools in my physique so much. I don't even have to pose. Like that's going to walk around. Yeah, let's go walk up. I'm just going to do dancing in the mouth. Like that was like literally my plan. My plan was like, I'm just going to smoke. You're going to walk around standing. Yeah, I was going to smoke everybody physique-wise so bad. You like who you see? You like it? Yeah, yeah. Then I don't even have a routine. I don't even know what I'm doing up there, you know what I'm saying? And the truth is though, and so there was a lot of people in the crowd that like, booed, it was a big deal because I did literally show up my very first show and smoked everybody like leanness-wise and everything. And I did, I only placed fourth and it was because my posing was terrible. When I look back at the pictures and the photos, like when you're supposed to do your old lat spread and show your back, like my shit was all, you know, it looked terrible. You know what I'm saying? Well, I sure my physique looked great, but like if you can't present it very well, it's awkward, doesn't do well to present. So I totally, it reminds me of that. Like in the truth was I sucked at it and so I had to practice a little bit out of it. Never did I like it. Never did I get good at it, but. Now that I know you as well as I do, it's like, oh my God, you signed up for that. It was all the start of business. It was, it was all. And that makes sense. No one goes well as they do. Animal pose. You literally. Because for a business, you know, make sense. I love that. I was like, yeah, you do that. All right. Today's shout out is mindpumptrainercourse.com. This is a three day free course that we run and we teach trainers how to sell bigger packages, how to present personal training, how to forecast what you're going to make for the month or the year. It's totally free. So it's mindpumptrainercourse.com. Children's multivitamins are typically just candy. They're gummy candies and they don't even have adequate nutrients with the kind of nutrients that children need. There's a company called Haya that is very different. This is not a sweetened candy. This is a multivitamin that kids will like, but also has the adequate nutrients that children need. It's not a high sugar candy. It's an actual multivitamin and your kids will like it. Go check them out. Go to hyahealth.com forward slash mind pump. And on that link, we'll get 50% off your first order. All right. Back to the show. Our first caller is Maggie from Colorado. Hi, Maggie. How are you doing? Good morning. This is so cool. I'm so nervous. So I just want to super quickly say thank you guys so much for all that you do. Just yeah, thank you. So my question, I am a textbook hardgainer. I, my maintenance is like over 3,500 and I'm 5'4". Like I'm little and I've gained about 40 pounds over the course of four years. So don't freak out, but I used to be at 84 pounds. So that's been, yeah. But the thing is I still just look small. Like if people had to guess looking at me, they'd guess I'm about 100 pounds. And I'll like, don't get mad, but I'll compare myself to influencers or other women. And I just don't have that muscle fullness or like any feminine shape at all. And I just, I'm tired of getting mistaken for a 12 year old, you know? So like, why do I just still look so small even if I eat and train and it feels like I'm doing everything right? And I just, like I look muscular, but I just look so small. Well, Maggie, did I, am I reading this correctly? You're only 18 right now. Yeah. And so I'm curious, it's like I've heard the term muscle maturity. Like is that just, I just need to age five years? Yeah, I mean, when you come a long ways already, if you've already put on 30, 40 pounds in the few years and you're only 18 right now, so. No, you're kicking ass. I think what we need to do is, have a different understanding of what's going on. I don't know many people, especially women, who've gained, you know, 30 pounds of lean body mass over that period of time. I don't know very many young ladies that are not afraid to consume over 3,000 calories and lift weights, or who have the confidence to say, I want to look like I have more muscle. Part of the problem, Maggie, is that you're kind of being a little hard on yourself. You're not really being fair. And you are, you're breaking the cardinal rule, you're comparing yourself to a lot of really dysfunctional. Yeah, yeah, you're comparing yourself to. Photoshop distorted images. Don't do that. I mean, the best advice I could give an 18 year old, like yourself, is to literally shut off social media. Don't go on it, or intentionally change the algorithm for pro personal growth posts. Not posts that will either unintentionally or intentionally cause you to compare yourself to other people. Because what's happened, and I'm 100% on this, I'm very, very confident with this. You have a distorted view of what's going on. You are crushing it, and at your age, oh my God. I mean, and you're going to continue to develop a strong, healthy, mobile physique, because you're just a kid. Like you haven't even come, you haven't even got to the point yet where things really start to accelerate. So my advice is have fun with this, and don't be so hard on yourself. Yeah, I don't think we need to change anything, but I am curious about like, what's your activity look like? I mean, are you, do you do sports or something? Like, what are you doing that to have to consume that much? Literally nothing, and it's all your guys' fault. Since I started listening to you, I used to do two hours on the Stairmaster every day, and I was eating like 2,000 calories and stuff, but now I just lift and get my steps in and sprint a couple times a week, and that's it. So it's probably genetic a little bit, but yeah. You're kicking ass. Are you following one of our programs? No, I can't decide which one to follow. I think anabolic, but I love the bodybuilding type, like body parts split, so I don't know. I don't know which one to pick. Do anabolic first, and then you can do split afterwards. Well, here's another option, is would you be interested in just seeing how strong you can get with the big three? I've been thinking about powerlifting, but I just don't know if I can build aesthetic muscle doing that. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, you're talking about you want to build muscle and look bigger or more muscular, especially at your age, get strong. Nothing will do that better than getting strong, literally. Like maybe 10 years from now, getting stronger at some point. You haven't even hit your limit as to what you can do in some of those big lifts. Do you know what your lifts look like? What are your lifts like right now? Do you know what you squat, deadlift, bench press, any of that stuff? I have never benched. I get too scared too. And my deadlift is almost 200, and my squat is 135, so I definitely have a lot of room to grow. Yeah, Maggie, following powerlift, you're going to blow your mind with the development. Yes, you're going to see some serious gains by just getting stronger in those lifts, and I think that's the best program for you right now. I really do. I think you'll fall in love with getting stronger, and then you're going to get the side effect results that you're looking for just through getting stronger. At this point in your career of training, I should say, like that's what you want to focus on. By the way, I don't know very many people that can gain 30 pounds of lean body mass in that period of time. That's phenomenal. Maggie, I'm going to have Doug put you in the private forum too, because I'd love, as you're, since you're going through powerlift the first time and you're, and you don't seem confident in bench, if you go through an exercise video and post it in there, and then we can critique it so we can go, we can help you guide you through the process. So I'll have Doug put you in there, let's do powerlift now, and then we can talk about split or aesthetic or something like that afterwards. I can't wait to see what you do with those lifts. Yeah. You're going to blow, it's going to blow your mind. But once you get going, get a video up on there so we can see your lifts and then help guide you through it. Awesome. Thank you so much. You got it. All right, Maggie. Thanks for calling in. Yeah. Good job. I have a tough time believing that she doesn't look like she totally lifts weight. She's going to be jacked. She's going to be jacked. There's no way. I know she's not jacked. 30 pounds of lean body mass. Eating 3,000 calories, 120 to 125 at 5'4. She probably, you know, I know she has a distorted view. I bet you she's in the gym working out and other people are like, oh my god. Look at that. Look at that. You know, I do, especially people that know her really well. There is a thing too to be said. I do think that men notice it more, experience it more as far as like the muscle maturity and then like the difference of like the male body at 18 versus like 26. Like, I don't know about you. You remember like, I mean, I looked completely different. Even lifting weights and muscular as a 18, 19 year old boy, the 30 year old version. I think it has more to do because there's a lot of speculation around that. It probably has more to do with the thinning of this. Like all the things that people don't want as they get older, I think is what contributes to that grainy, what they would call muscle mature look. Now, the truth is in real life, you know, it just looks more hardcore, I would say. You could probably accomplish that by getting shredded, but I mean, she's comparing herself in ways that are not benefiting her. You know, her height, her weight, her strength, what she's eating, what she's doing. Do you know any 18 year old young ladies that have done that? No, if she was a client and these were our results, I'd be highlighting her as like the perfect example of what I want my clients to be able to do. She's not doing any cardio either. Like, so she literally, she does a couple of sprints et cetera, a couple of times a week. And then the rest is just straight strength training. She came from eating 2000 calories and 80, 90 pounds is now eating 3,500. And I mean, come on. Yeah. I mean, she'll be, I think she'll be able to pull, like she said, she deadlifts in low 200. I bet that will get up to the mid twos. And it sounds like she hasn't put a lot of energy in like really trying to get strong in those lifts, right? Like she doesn't even bench press. Especially at that age, like the thing that will develop your physique the most, because at some point it changes because there's a limit. But at her age, just get strong. Like if you're watching this and you're young and you're working out like the, what will point you in the direction in terms of getting closer to your progress faster is simply getting stronger. Nothing will do it more than that. Our next caller is Katie from Wisconsin. Hi, Katie. How can we help you? Hi. Hi. Hello. Excellent. Thank you guys so much for being willing to answer my question. I'm pretty new to your guys's programs. I went through a map starter and I'm now doing anabolic. I'm about three weeks in. And I've got some questions about the trigger sessions and how I can customize those for what I'm looking to work on. Ideally, I'd like to work on some core strength as well as neck strength. Interesting. Let's talk about the neck strength for a second. That's not something somebody typically tries to train or work on, except for maybe the grapplers or wrestlers that I've worked with. Do you have neck pain? Is there something that we're trying to correct? Do you wear a helmet, sir? Yeah. I do. I wear a helmet for work. And so I get a lot of neck pain if I'm having to wear it regularly while I'm at work. Wow. Interesting. Okay. So for neck strengthening specific movements, I'm going to send you Maps Prime Pro unless you already have it. Do you have Prime Pro? Yep. I do have Prime Pro. Okay. I want you to do the neck movements in there to work on neck mobility and strengthening. I don't want you to do any straight up, straight, no neck building exercises until you get really good. You know, here's what happens with neck strengthening and this happened to me back in the day is you want to strengthen the neck, but you don't want to move to the end range of the motion that the spine allows because it's a very delicate dance. Yes. Because then you can cause a lot of problems. So you see a lot of football players and wrestlers later on in life developing issues and some of them are because of the neck exercises that we did. I think with the mobility from Prime Pro coupled with anabolic shrugs it should probably do a lot for her as far as support. Yeah. So with the trigger sessions, I mean, the question is how do you put those together? There's a couple of things that happen from trigger sessions. One is this kind of localized effect, localized meaning like the target muscle that you're getting a little pump in, but really mostly it's this kind of systemic effect that is enhancing what happened during those foundational workouts. Okay. So ideally, now you can pick specific trigger sessions and say, oh, I'm just going to do two or three core exercises and that'll be my trigger sessions. You can do that. But in my experience, people tend to get better results when they do like one core exercise and then maybe two or three other exercises that generally works the entire body and moves the other tire body. So you might do like a core exercise, a pressing movement and a rowing movement or something like that or like a lunge, a core exercise and a rowing movement or something like that. And remember the trigger sessions are supposed to be low intensity. You're just getting blood to pump into the muscles. You're not looking for a workout. You might get a little bit of a burn during them, but really you're just, you just want them to move. You just want to move and contract the muscles a couple of times a day. I mean, it's not a bad idea though with the anabolic protocol is literally just add one or two core exercises to her trigger days. Like it's not a trigger. I would still do band curls and flies and all the normal trigger session movements and then just, you could do an active plank. An active plank. Yeah, you could. And some like, so you could ease, those trigger days are low enough volume of training. Like we wouldn't encourage somebody to do like a- A full body workout. Yeah, full body workout or bench presses or squats or something like that. But doing some core exercises on those days I think is totally fine. But just don't overdo it. You don't need to. You don't have, you haven't been doing a lot of that already. So just add one core exercise or two core exercises to those trigger days before you do your trigger sessions. And then that makes now you're, you know, 20 minutes of exercises. I think that's perfect. There's totally, totally fine. And then the next program I think performance you're going to get a lot of good core strengthening exercises built into the routine. So look forward to that afterwards. Since I see that you're now an anabolic, once you move out of that, move into performance, and then you're really going to ramp up like the core strengthening stuff. I'm assuming you're relatively new to strength training because you started a map starter. I have had like a long break. So I was a three sport athlete in high school and a two sport athlete in college and graduated and basically stopped doing everything and have had kids now and have gotten into my career. And I'm just ready to get back into being more fit. Ooh, awesome. Yeah, awesome. How are you feeling? How are things responding? It's been amazing. I have not lost a pound yet, but my clothes fit better. Yeah, perfect. My uniform at work fits so much better. We get weighed at work regularly. So it's always been something on my mind, thinking about weight. And we talk a lot about it with employees just because we're always trying to make sure that we're making our weights. And so it's just been really nice to feel a lot better there. Yeah, so you built muscle and lost a pound. Okay, I'm so curious about the job. Yeah, because you wear a big helmet. You have to be a certain weight. What are you doing? Yeah, you're a race car driver there. Yeah. Are you an astronaut stripper? What are you doing? I'm a flight paramedic. So I work on a helicopter. Oh, wow. Cool, very cool. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, very cool. No, so what you're experiencing right now is like exactly how you want to start. Like you're getting leaner, you're building muscle metabolism speeding up. You're about to hit that snowball effect. So just stay patient and stay the course. You're doing great. And I'm assuming you're hitting your protein targets and all that as well. Yes, it's definitely been a new way of eating, but it's getting easier as I go and doing lots of meal prepping and that. And it really does feel great. So awesome. Katie, can we put you in our forum? I was just going to tell her, yeah. I would love to follow your progress. Yeah. Oh, I'd love that. Yeah, please. We'll put you in the forum and then give us some periodic updates. Yeah, yeah, update us about once a month, letting us know how everything's going. I love that you have the right mindset right now, that you have the perfect mindset for what you're doing. Totally. Excited to see how it pans out. And what sports did you play, by the way, in college? I played football, hockey, and did track. And then in college, I played hockey as well as track. Yeah, you got the genetics behind it too. You're going to respond really well. I can't wait to see. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. You got it. We'll see you in the forum. Okay, thanks. Yeah, dude, I was like, helmet, and you weigh yourself? Yeah, I thought that was kind of weird. I couldn't think in my head, I'm like, what do you do? Yeah, that's so interesting. What a great attitude, especially considering she says she just recently has found us, right? So she hasn't been listening for a very long time. One of the biggest challenges is when you're in that perfect sweet spot is not getting in your own way. Totally. You know, the fact that she was happy that the scale is not moving, right? Most people are like, oh, I need to see the scale go down. I want to see the scale go down, but she's like, Well, even being an ex-athlete and not jumping into our most advanced program, I give her kudos for kind of realizing like, I spent a long time, I'm going to go back into starter. She's like being very methodical about it. I think, you know, the neck training question is always one that's like a little tricky, because, you know, and I remember that as, you know, when I was playing football, I was like, how do we change the neck? And it was such a fine line. And really it's like isometric training is about as far as you need to go. You don't really need to load, but for her just to go through some of that controlled articulation and rotation with her neck, very control is going to help a lot. Oh, I 100% messed up my neck doing the crazy Russian bridges, touching my nose. Our high school had one of the like old school ones where you like vice grip your head. Oh, we had that in the chain with the. We did all that. That's actually better than what I did, bro. We did. I did the old school, like I'd come up in a bridge. So feet in my head and I roll back to my nose, touch the floor. And then I'd walk around a partner, hold our chin, you know, as you're pushing down as far as possible and like the yank your head back. So now my rotation is like, I was limited. Now I look like Batman. Next caller is Rochelle from Colorado. Hi, Rochelle. Hi. How can we help you? Hello. Oh, hi guys. I tell you, I've been listening to you guys for about six months and my heart is pounding. I know they say that all the time when people get on, but it's a real deal. It's a real deal. It's how handsome Doug is. Hey guys, how are you? We're good. How are you doing? Good. Good. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for answering my question, I hope. You got it. All right. What can we do? Well, as my subject line said, I'm a seasoned lady. That means I'm not old. That means I'm 55. And I've been listening to you guys. In my opinion, your voice is a reason because there's a crazy place out there that just is called YouTube and the internet. And it gives you a whole bunch of information. So I think you guys are my rudder right now and I need you. So I don't know if I give you a lot of background, but I want to give you a little bit because I think it plays in how you're going to talk to me. But first and foremost, six months ago, I heard you guys. I also listened to Dr. Lyons and I read a book by Dr. Peter Entera about outlive. I'm going to spot or the name of his book, but outlive the science of aging. And it really hit my heart about how I've been living my life. And my life has been about the aesthetics of being thin and watching a scale, engaging my life off of what the number says. I've never lifted weights except for starting six months ago. I love the outdoors. However, I'm in a battle with my body in my opinion. What I mean by that is I don't have any women parts anymore. Those have been gone for about four years. So I do take hormones, both estrogen and testosterone. And with that being said, I've been trying for that balance. I chose to eat carnivore starting about two and a half years ago. And it helped me manage my sugar addiction, I'm going to say, because there was never a piece of bread or a sweet treat that I would go past. And I couldn't just eat one. I loved them. And so anyway, with that being said, I beat that way. But of course, I'm an extreme gal. I know my personality. I take something and run with it. And I do it to the 100th degree. So I walk every day. Of course, that's turned into walking for a year straight, not skipping a day. I started the weightlifting and I was doing kettlebells with just a video. And then I found you guys and you were like, no, you really want to do a program. So I am doing maps 15. And with that, I'm now doing that maps 15 with my walk. And I'm on the last nine weeks of that advanced. And then the final part of my back history is that through the carnivore and possibly intermittent fasting and eating once, like once a day, listening to my body when I'm hungry. I was probably under. I know I was under. So I messed with my metabolism, as I have. But then I bulked up, meaning like I did what you guys say. I don't really know what the hell a bulk is, but I did it. Meaning I ate three meals a day. I got my calories up and started looking at that a little bit. But I kind of am freaked out by that because I got rid of the scale. You guys are the only people in my entire life that have made me stop working. Awesome. I'm still on the edge of it. But then I thought, don't go crazy looking at what you're eating. Although I do check in with it and I go, where's my protein, how many calories am I eating? And I would say average of 1900 to 2000. So the long and the short is here I am 55, six months doing somewhat weightlifting. I know I want to be strong. I want to focus my life. I am a woman and I will say I'm not weighing myself in my book. My pants are tight and my butt on my thighs. I don't like that, but I understand I'm stronger. My arms, I know there's a muscle there. I can see it, but it's tight in my clothing. So I guess I'm reaching to you guys to say, how patient do I have to be? I'm not patient. Now that I'm finishing out maps 15, I know I'm stronger, but I feel like I'm a bear with a layer of fat in my body. I want to melt away. So I'm coming to you guys. I'm looking for your insight and your expertise. I will follow what you say. I want to just commit to one thing. I want to quiet the distractions in my head and on the internet. And I will be disciplined because that's who I am. But I want you guys to say, Rochelle, if you follow this, you are going to see results and you guys guarantee it. And I promise you I will follow you to the end of the year. And be your mouthpiece for all the season ladies that we're told. I like it. Thank you. I like it. That's our next program, season. Season, season. Rochelle, here's what I want for you. And you let me know how this sounds. I would, I want for you to be able to move forward in a way that's healthy for you, that's going to give you strength, mobility, that's going to maintain a good body composition. But I don't want it to be a stress or a struggle. And I don't want you to do it out of sheer will. I want, I would like for you to be in a mental space to where, and I don't know if you've ever felt this way, but I'd love for you to feel cool, confident and calm as you move forward through this journey. That's what I'd want for you. What I don't want, because I think you've already done this and I think that you probably struggle with this, is I don't want you to just follow something and white-knuckle it because you have the ability to just, oh, I'm just going to do what I'm supposed to do. I want you to do it, I want you to do it because you want to and it's adding to the quality of your life. It is not a stress and it feels good. I want it to feel good. I don't want this to feel stressful or challenging or like you're questioning yourself or you don't have confidence in it. Now the way to accomplish that, it's going to be a bit of a process, but I do think working with a coach, with a good coach is going to be your best bet because I can give you some advice right now, but you're going to encounter challenges and struggles with what I'm talking about, the mental aspect of it, how I feel and oh my god, my clothes feel different and oh, I haven't weighed myself, but I really want to or okay, I'm just going to do this because I'm going to force myself. I don't want you to feel tyrannized by yourself. I don't want you to feel forced. I want you to feel like you want to do this and it feels good and it's joyful, but it's going to be a bit of a process and I think a coach that works with you on a weekly basis is going to be your best bet. I really do. I want you to know that you, I don't think you're far off from this sweet spot where you need to be. I think that, I think you're doing a lot. I think you're putting a lot on you to Sal's point and I think that's important. I think we can put you in the forum. I think we, there's an incredible community and we're in there to help you through this process, but really it would be, it just needs to be less stressful. That you can hear the pressure that you have on yourself of like, I need to do this and I need to perform and it needs to be, it's like, this should be a very enjoyable process. There's a lot of exciting things too. The fact that you're coming from never really lifting weights consistently until recent in your life, that's a really positive thing. That coupled with you feeding the body properly, meaning giving yourself the nutrients your body needs, hitting your protein intake and strengthening. It's going to respond and you're going to continually get better and better and sculpt. What will shoot yourself in the foot though is stressing about it and doing too much trying to get there faster. So it's, it's a dance and I really, I mean, what I think maps in a ballock is where I would want her training wise right now. I think she, do you have access to a gym or are you training from home? Training from home. Okay. And I mean, but if, but, you know, my son was like, are we opposed? It's just a time thing, a convenience thing. I work hard for my, what I do for a living and there's a window. It's early in the morning. That's when I do it. What kind of equipment do you have access to, Rachelle? So I had the adjustable dumbbells up to 50. I have uh, kettlebells up to I think 60 something. And then I have that TRX. I have the hair dyeing. I have, I've banned. Yeah, you're good. You're good. I could send you map suspension so that after 15, if you want to follow something different with the equipment that you have, you could follow that. Maps and a ballock does have a dumbbell only version. You would need a bench. I don't know if you have a bench at home. I do have a bench. I do have a bench. So I could send you one of those. I think either one of those will be great for you. Oh my gosh. Thank you. But I'd like to, you know, let me, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you maybe what would be considered a bit of a personal question. Would you, is that, is that okay? Yes, of course. Would you say that you're really hard on yourself, that you judge yourself a bit harshly and that this is what in the past has driven you to change and grow and do things? Oh, for sure. I would say I am resilient. I'm like tenaciously disciplined. I really valued what you were saying. I do want this journey. I am seasoned. That means it is about enjoying life. I've raised those kids up. I get what you're saying. And I really value that, that like I have to adjust this thought process because it's forever. It's like the forever. I'm in that part of my life. I want to do this forever. But I will honestly say to you as a woman, we know how to do it. And sometimes it is like I had said to my mom, she has a great figure. She's up there. But I have, what I mean by that is like, sometimes as a woman, you're like, oh, skinny fat's fine because of the aesthetic sense of what I'm doing. But I really mentally, because I'm trying to do better for my life, stay longer is better. Stronger, healthier is better. Yes, this is. And so I'm trying, but I'm being really vulnerable with you guys today as a woman. So aesthetically and how I feel, I hate that it matters, but I'm being honest. No. Because women need to be honest with each other. I agree 100%, Rochelle. I appreciate your honesty and your vulnerability. This is a process, like the process of getting better at an exercise or getting stronger. It takes a while before it becomes automatic. So you have an inner voice or a way that you talk to yourself, the way that you driven growth in the past was through probably self-criticism or shame. And you can grow through that. But the problem is it robs you of the joy of feeling like this is something you voluntarily want to do. When it's done through shame, it's almost like it's done through being tyrannized. Like, oh, I'm not good enough. Oh, I'm bad. Oh, you idiot. Or, and so when you do grow that way, what you lose is the joy of the feeling of the, I chose to do this and I want to do this and wow, look how far I've come. So you've actually robbed yourself of the quality of life that can come from growth. You still grow and change, but you're missing out on that. Now it's a process like exercise. So I want you to be careful here. It will not be an automatic. What you're saying right now is totally normal. This is going to be a process of retraining yourself and how you talk to yourself and the self-talk that you might not even be aware of, the way that you judge yourself. And okay, I know I feel this way and I know this is the right way. Let me try and it feels awkward at first. Okay, I want to be strong. I want to be healthy. I want to be calm about this, but it will start to become automatic the more you practice it. But initially you're going to have to practice it consciously, which is going to feel a bit awkward to say the least. But I really do think, and what we'll do here when we hang up here, Rochelle, is we have access to coaches that we really like. And when we're done here and we hang up, we'll discuss who we think might be a good fit for you and we'll send you their contact and you can see if it's a fit. But I really think you would benefit from having a guide through this process. I think you'll move there, you'll move so much quicker by working with someone through this process. As far as like what you're doing, you're doing the right stuff. It's just how you feel about it that we need to work on. At the bare minimum, I want you in the forum. So I'm going to have Doug put you in the forum. So I agree with Sal. If we can get you with a coach, it would be the perfect world. But at the bare minimum, at least coming in and checking in with us in the private forum so we can continue to. And you know, we didn't touch on it. I saw in your notes like you were doing things like 75 hard. Like I want, I don't want you doing any of that type of stuff. I like little follow the program walks are great. Right. So I love the, I love walks and nature and I'm all, I'm all for that. So the walking is fine, coupled with the strength training, coupled with hitting your protein and take every day. Like those are the, those are the big rocks right there. Let's get strong. Let's walk. Let's follow the program the way it's laid out. And let's make sure we hit our protein and take. And then the rest will start to fall in place. And think of it this way, you're not forcing your body to change. You're encouraging it. It's an encouragement. It is not forced. So anytime you work out or anytime you, you're feeding yourself, you, and you might again, consciously do this, ask yourself, am I forcing my body to do what I want? Or am I encouraging it and inviting it to do what I want? It's a very different energy. And it will guide you in more appropriate, healthy ways. If you don't, it'll rebel. Oh, you'll lose. Yeah. If you try and force it or push it or will it to where you want it to go, it will, it will rebel. Here's what'll happen. You'll be like those fitness influencers that we know that take pictures of themselves and they're miserable. They're absolutely miserable the entire time. So forcing it is a lose, lose battle. No, I love it. Two, three things. So the one part, like I always think of Godwings. You're having a Godwin with me right now, which is, because I believe in him and he brings the right people into my life. But you spoke of joy. I don't know if you saw on my email, but my true like salutation is like, go have a joy built date. In my world, the joy is God for me. But you just hit on it saying like, you're, you're not living it at 100%. But if I choose to really embrace that and think of the joy, you hit on it. So you have a Godwink. So that was great. And then Adam, with what you're saying about being in that form, I mean, I spoke to it a little bit, but I'm telling you, as a gal that's just trying to figure it out, you hear, lift heavy shit. Don't lift. Do hit. Yeah, I know. Do this. So many things, but if, but with a forum, I don't know what that's like, meaning I don't really do social media, but I imagine that maybe it's a little bit more safety parameters in there. It's our people. It's us. It's us. It's us. We're in there too. So I appreciate that. That kind of makes me breathe a little different, like, okay, okay. And then I do. I haven't really heard you guys say, like, go get a coach to somebody else. So I'm like, what the hell? I think you guys are my coach. Like you're in my phone every morning. But if you're saying that I would benefit from that, then, you know, I'm going to listen to you. But I definitely, again, that just scares crap out of me to be like, oh, now go swim in that pool to go find the right person. Because I mean, we'll introduce you. We'll introduce you to somebody. We will. 100%. And by the way, in the one of the other things that's in that forum, besides just us and a great community, are a ton of other trainers and coaches. Rachelle, so there's a lot of other trainers and coaches that are in there that will help encourage and guide you through this process. And just the trade vulnerability, I believe exactly what you believe. And that's the exact same journey I'm on right now with Shane. That's how I used to grow. And so, you know, when I'm talking to you, I'm talking to myself as well. I know how tough it could be, but it's possible for sure. Well, I really appreciate that. I really do. I don't know. I'm hopeful. Okay. So I'm hopeful. I don't know what if I do want to leave here with doing a program. So tell me what that next one is if you think it's TRX or if you think it's dumbbells with the anabolic from there. I think anabolic. Yeah. Let's do maps anabolic, follow the dumbbell only version. Okay. And so then that is awesome. Thank you, guys. I do want to hit you guys with just this is that I will say I'm looking at three good men. I listened to you. My time is really important to me. I don't have a lot of downtime, but I put you in my ears. You make me laugh. I do find that I'm seasoned. I'm older, but I've been down the road 39 years with my man. I support you guys with what you're doing. We need good men in the world. Cheap being that reflection. I'm telling you, you might be changing bodies, but I think you're changing the mind of a lot of people and a lot of young, I say young, but men that need good men. So keep being that. Thank you. I want to just encourage you. Such a nice compliment. The best compliment. Thank you so much, Rachelle. We'll see you in the forum. Absolutely. We'll see you in the forum. Okay. Sounds great. Thanks, guys. Wow. Love her. Love her. Tough journey. Yeah. Tough journey. But with her attitude, I think we'll try and find a good coach for her. She'll be her biggest critic. She's doing the right things. Yeah, she just needs those conversations. And that's where a coach, I do think is the best fit for that to keep ping-ponging these struggles and mentally. It's mental struggles. Totally. It's really going to cripple. 100%. The exciting part, though, is when you have somebody who has not lifted weights most are live, if I can just get them excited about that. Yeah. Right. And that is going to be... Just get used to that feeling. That's right. Like, that's... And I know she kind of pointed out a little bit, like, oh, you hear on the internet, just get strong, get strong. But it's the truth. Like, that's just get into... Yeah, embracing. And approach the workouts with this, like, I want to get good at this movement. It's foreign to me. It's new. I've never done any of this stuff. And so, I want to get good at it. I want to practice it. And then, through practice, I'm going to get more confident. And through confidence, I'm going to get stronger from adding more weight and just focus on that coupled with knowing that this is a journey and a process. And I think she's going to be very, very happy when she looks back from six months down the road of being consistent with this. Look, if you love the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com. We have a Lose Fat Guide. It's totally free. And it gives you all the information you need to help your body lose fat and not muscle. Also, you can find us on social media, Justin, I was on Instagram at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm on Instagram at Mind Pump to Stefano. And Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam.