 Welcome to the second Advocacy and Outreach Special Interest meeting. Today we will talk about several topics including CDF planning and local language communities. We have Rick and Tracy on the call. Last meeting we had a discussion how we organize SIG meetings and we agreed to have meetings in two time zones, one is APAC and EMEA and the other one would be... But we will not share your screen? Not yet, but yeah, I will do that, so yeah, okay, I should probably just share right now. Yeah, so this is my screen, okay, yeah. So we had a meeting on January 31 and we agreed that we have two meetings, so this is what we have today and I think we will have US-Europe meeting for the next week, Mark was interested so we should have it and yeah, still it makes sense to have a local meeting especially if we have more participants later because there is a lot of activities in China and in other countries, so by having a meeting in this time zone we can facilitate these activities. Today we have a few topics proposed to the agenda, so maybe just a quick updates about JSOC and particularly about outreach because the application is ongoing and then CDF CoINI and two topics about language-based and user-focused groups, so this is what I put to the agenda. Should we add anything else? It's all for me. So yeah, JSOC update in one minute, we have applied to JSOC in February and we are waiting for final confirmation, it should arrive on February 26, so for now we are not sure whether we are accepted or not but yeah, hopefully everything is fine, we've got a number of project ideas, they're listed here and last meeting we had some discussions about CIC focused project ideas, for example having an online hackathon site and I will post this project idea this week, so yeah, we just wait but everything is ready on our site, all documentation is updated, we have enough projects, so once there is announcement we are ready to iterate with students. When is the announcement expected? February 26, so yeah, JSOC timeline, yeah, so yeah, known UTC, there will be list of organizations published and on the evening we will have cloud-native CIC meeting, then on 27th we will have JSOC CIC meeting, so yeah, we will be able to start iterating on the results as soon as possible because many special interest groups are involved, so we will use meetings in order to communicate the results and facilitate applications even more if it's possible. So yeah, that's the plan and yeah, I hope everything goes well. Any other questions? It's okay for me. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, probably we should talk about how 3-7, so yeah, go ahead. Probably it's better for you to just summarize the current status because yeah, you're driving through CIC. The next round of outreach is basically the summer round is opened in terms of applicants can start making contributions to projects, there's some interest from Jenkins community to participate, so in particular Matt Sicker who is the mentor for the last round would like to continue and one thing I had to do was to find out if we did start this round of outreach, whether we'd have any problems with the move to CDF and kind of managing the payments, so I contacted the outreach organizers and they said it shouldn't be a problem they can always change who the invoice would go to, so that should be no problem from their side and then they gave me an idea of the window of when they can send the invoice so if there's any preference from our side to either do it earlier or later, then we can do it to suit kind of our transition, so from their point of view it should be fine, they're flexible, so the next step is to I guess get Jenkins governors and community to approve the stipend amount because this will get funded from Jenkins, so at the next governor meeting which is next Wednesday? Yeah, February 27th. I need to get that on the agenda and I guess maybe put it on the dev list beforehand. Yeah, it would be nice. And then yeah I'd like to invite if we have at least one project with the audit logs then open it up for potential other projects including ones that wouldn't necessarily apply to GSOC perhaps, or even ones that aren't GSOC but I can think about how to manage that. Yeah, so we had several project ideas last year for example, colorblind mode for Jenkins and such things could be probably more applicable for Reacher, well they're totally fine for GSOC as well but yeah we can create project ideas for that if needed but yeah what we really need is to find mentors. Yeah it's not a problem if mentors listed themselves as potential mentors in both organizations and then they decide what they prefer. So if you want to send a message about Outreach for example to GSOC mentors I believe it would be totally reasonable. Okay, so just making them aware of the dates and yeah. Yeah, as we discussed last time we could even share some project ideas. Yeah, I didn't have a chance to discuss the GSOC meeting but yeah I will make sure that we do that. But yeah, sending a message to GSOC mentors or to the GSOC SIG mailing list would be a good start if you want to get mentors because yeah many people might be interested. Okay, thank you and yeah what would be the deadline for project ideas there? So I just send you this. You bring up that link in the chat then so applications are open now we have to register Jenkins as a community by March 5th and the last day for projects is March 12th and the last day for applications is March 26th but because applications are already open the sooner we can get something in the more time we have to attract people and to be able to qualify them in terms of the requests. Yeah, so for us the critical thing is to get budget approved because without budget we cannot do much for in the case of Outreach but once it's done yeah it should be okay to get everything. Yep, we should be able to make the March 5th deadline. Okay, thank you very much. Anything else about Outreach or should we go to CDF project? Unless there's questions I'm fine. Okay, let's just talk about CDF. So we need to make some decisions soon as a community and again you may see that there was a message from Kiki about two weeks comment period so it was on February 7th and it means that the time is running out so there will be some decisions in the community soon how we proceed and I think that we could discuss Rick's questions because he was interested to get more context about CDF. So Rick if you want you can drive the discussion. Yes, do we have a very clear timeline for CDF application? Yes, so just kind of working backwards the plan is for it to launch on March 12th so and that to happen both the projects need to be ready and the companies who are signing up so the recruitment of companies is started and then the projects have all had the process of agreeing to come in so I think with the deadline of 22nd of February for Jenkins that gives a couple of weeks for kind of the legal stuff to be hooked off and decisions to be made around the transfer. So if I understand it correctly there must have more than two companies to want to join the CDF so the CDF can be launched right? Yes ideally looking for maybe a dozen companies but we have a whole bunch who have shown interest so I believe we've got three companies already signed up and there's a deadline this Friday for other ones to sign up so if they want to be foundation members but once it's launched anyone can join at any time. It seems to be on track. Okay thank you for your explanation if my company wants to send a paper how do we have a description of some paper? Yes okay so for companies who want to join up what we should do is first of all they should have a look at the charter and I believe that was attached to KK's message. Yeah it's here yeah so that's great okay so then the second thing is they can get in touch with me and I will connect you to the Linux foundation so you have a point of contact because they handle the memberships and then the third thing I will stick in the chat give me a minute to find it is there is a an e-sign way to sign up to the contract so I will find the link to the e-sign. A couple of hours I just met with Jim the Linux foundation yeah just have a small talk with Jim great he is in China Beijing now oh that's nice yeah so I'm glad yeah so you can quiz them and I think have you met Mike Dolan we'll see there as well no or just um and I tell is Jim okay um so the okay I'll find the link for it but if there are questions and they want to talk to somebody just to you know understand maybe which other companies are coming in projects you're welcome to either talk to myself or talk to Chris or Mike at the Linux foundation and if you're very interested and you think the company is ready to join I can I can or Chris can sign you up to a cdf formation list for interested members so if if my company wants to join the cdf so I should I need to write you an email about this um yes so one quick question are you already members of Linux foundation I need to discuss with my boss to discuss more details then I will touch you again yeah yeah so you can yeah just drop me an email okay and I will introduce you to the folks from the next foundation and then you can decide um what you need so if you need to have a discussion first that's fine if you think you're ready to go already then I can get you added to the formation list and send you all the links for the sign and everything thank you yeah thanks for explaining the process okay it's very clear for me okay thank you so should we press it to the next questions okay so yeah application for which ad account yeah I believe it should it will happen after March 12th for sure but yeah I'm not sure what would be the next timeline here I can see CSF has they're all which are the account and for now we have a decrease which other counter so once the CDF launched I can I can do an application for the DF okay so it can be just transferred using whatever paper we need a legal entity which would be a recipient right yeah it may be the case that the Linux foundation can apply for that directly as I know they tend to like they'll be starting the Twitter account and other accounts so what I could do is bring that up for the launch plans if we want to have one from the beginning and see if they're open to doing that and then they can invite contributors like yourself to yes let me just take a note if you do that yeah be a relevant question what would happen with other accounts for example we have a Slack channel for Jenkins online meetup organizers it's not detective but yeah there is a Slack channel and probably it needs to be transferred to Linux foundation as well yeah so once the projects approve like once the Jenkins say they're moving there's a some paperwork the governors would need to fill in and it asks for details like and all the social media accounts all the website URLs all the kind of assets so I believe KK is starting to audit all of these and find out who the owners are so he has to do that he's doing that for Jenkins and Jenkins X Jenkins X has yeah then the Kubernetes Slack workspace so I believe it's already a part of since year maybe yeah yeah I didn't yeah I didn't know we even had Slack channels so yeah maybe I will get yeah we can connect you up to review some of the assets in case you yeah you can think of any others yeah so if I remember specific resources I will let you know but yeah I believe that Tyler would be the best contact because the most of resources on Tyler now I believe especially in around Jenkins infrastructure and yeah thanks for clarifying that yeah actually any you can see sorry any you think of so I think we've had to have the domain names the trademarks the Google analytics the two Twitter accounts the Facebook account Azure data dogs and great meetup AWS so I think we're missing Slack channel yeah uh reach out I guess yeah also probably all kinds of subscriptions for example we use data doc ad guess we use pager duty and yeah many other things so most probably they will say meet some adjustments but I'm not sure how the contracts are organized there okay thanks for that okay and regarding the trademark transfer there was a question from Rick is this question about Jenkins trademark or any other trademark uh as far I know uh if Jenkins joins the links foundation then Jenkins trade mark will transfer to leaks foundation so we already have a bunch of application for a trademark like a conference uh something like that do we need application or just the director transfer them already yeah so it should be the case that pre-approved trademarks uh you can continue to use just a license those and I think that was part of the agreement that they would be I guess accepted in and any going forward I think the process is very similar because the Jenkins process was based on Linux foundation one anyway but the main difference will be that the governing board uh approves the approves the requests so one doesn't have to be a member of Linux foundation to apply for the trademark usage uh I don't believe so yeah and it's a great so actually on a question like that I was wondering if we should have an FAQ somewhere for Jenkins and the best place to put that would be as a kind of reference point you mean a Jenkins CDF FAQ yeah Jenkins a CDF FAQ I don't think it exists we have this email threads but yeah if somebody creates a FAQ document maybe in google doc or in wiki yeah can we do it under wiki is there somewhere we could yeah I think so so the most of the wiki is open to others so yeah we can protect particular pages from vandalism if needed or you can just create a new page okay and is there any particular like organization where's the best place to put it usually we put all the wiki pages to the root of the wiki okay so this yeah yeah the best practice probably but yeah you can totally do this that's fine for now so yeah you may see the stretch almost everything goes to the root okay and that maybe I for now I could just link it from the hole and we can move it later when it's less significant that's right so home page I believe it's protected from editing so you you'll need to contact Jenkins board to update that okay I don't think that anybody really uses a wiki home page it's better to use it from the Jenkins site and from mainly please it wouldn't get much right okay so regardless I could put a page somewhere we just link it in people that necessarily come into the home page browse around they just have the link yeah so wiki page would be really useful especially for newcomers because you know like Rick asked about companies joining cdf there may be also individual contributors who may want to join cdf and yeah in such case having wikis and having documentation would be great and yeah I believe eventually it will go to the cdf site yeah well link link it out to cdf site so when it's in there as well and if people have questions they want to know any other questions about cdf it's okay for me okay yeah thanks for bringing it up and any questions should help to clarify okay let's switch to language based communities if you want to spend time on that or we can actually discuss it later when we have more people just to pitch my idea what I have in mind that having a listing of local communities here somehow so the trick partly that we de facto have some localized communities so you may see here for example yeah there is Chinese community but there are also other mailing please and for example there is Jenkins Russian community which doesn't have mailing please but which does have charts it's a website etc and my idea was to actually just take all of that and maybe create a new entity in Jenkins like local communities or whatever which would use framework maybe similar to special interest groups and sub-projects and just have a listing of these local communities so yeah these communities may reference their resources on the Jenkins site would it be helpful from your point of view I think it will be helpful for a local community one thing I've seen before if you sort of maybe a longer term view let's put a link in the chat where the eclipse project had a kind of way to group all the translation sorry the last link and so how they group it was to have one place which dealt with all the translations and put common links but then separate out the different language champions so that have a language champion for each language some things were common like how to translate that right code but then it would also split out into the different languages so yeah this is a big part here because a local community doesn't necessarily mean localization community so for example Chinese localization seek one of the purposes is to localize Jenkins but yeah they also have their own site so you're just talking about having local language ones not organization about the user groups these user groups may contribute localization but they may not for example in Jenkins probably we don't have any effort even though we have hundreds of members in chat etc okay sorry yeah my confusion yeah so it could be actually a good topic to clarify because yeah if we create a single framework we may just put some flags or whatever for example who would add some metadata who would be localization leader in the community etc if we want to somehow promote localization but yeah I was thinking just about this all resources we have I was able to find many resources outside Jenkins as well for example there is a French speaking chat about Jenkins whatever so just by collecting these resources and publishing we can provide links to users and then we expand from there so the idea the key point is not just remain merely at least maybe we'll add other things other channels like chat or something like that yeah right so my idea would be to actually just have a landing page so for example if we take our seek page would we have some overview which describes what the seek is doing whatever and yeah there are also connect links so maybe if all local topics we could somehow group this output so we do not need members to say on this page but we can just start from listing resources if you're interested for example for Chinese channel yeah we have WeChat we have we have a mailing list which is Chinese localization there are some meetings which can be used and the videos to them on the front page and other local channels if they only have a mailing list or if they only have a chat they can be posted as well as a starting point yes sounds very great yeah so I'll maybe spend some time refactoring that but yeah I think about just putting it here yeah this drop down becomes a bit long even now so maybe you'll need to refactor the layout a bit I have another question about the six we already have a number of six maybe they all have mouse six so the the menu maybe there will be become too long yeah so the problem with this layout is that we cannot create many more items because yeah this is approximately the minimum resolution we want to support so when we were adding landing pages so Liam has reworked this output because we were trying to fit this resolution or something like that and yeah we cannot add more drop down entries here without breaking the layout for narrow screens so this is the problem and yeah if you propose a better solution than we have now it would be much appreciated but yeah this now not for now just a concert sorry uh wait I don't have a solution for now just yeah just for message okay yeah it's something to think about for example maybe documentation maybe somehow it works or maybe we could have multiple levels of the drop downs because for example community we can just have special interest groups as a drop down then the same for local communities account management I don't have idea what it's doing here to be honest but yeah we could somehow refactor it to take less space and to highlight activities we want to promote okay there will be more special interest groups because yeah I have a draft of embedded special interest group which I haven't published yet and yeah there were some discussions about cc++ special interest groups about android if I recall correctly so maybe we could start preparing for having more here okay so my plan here is to actually to just create a prototype and yeah once I have it I will present it at one of the next sick meetings and maybe we could agree whether you blend it in such way or rework okay mm-hmm there's something like that yes mm-hmm yeah I'll leave it as an open question so I will just think about that when I create a prototype okay thank you and yeah user focused special interest groups it may be another side of the same question we already had a quick discussion because yeah what we started from is that special interest groups are actually focused on Jenkins development and on Jenkins communities or cloud native firm google summer of course and I wish they focus community which is good but maybe we also want to have user focused special interest groups so for example last month we created hardware in the the special interest group and it explicitly focus focuses users and use cases of users so it seems to be another kind of special interest group and yeah I wanted to talk whether you want to promote such kind and to somehow organize one comment on that is from a cdf perspective this is something that might fit better at a cdf level as in cross projects rather than Jenkins because if you're talking about a very specific vertical you know Jenkins maybe it's just one part of a full solution yeah I think I agree with it so I think we're quite keen to have sort of industry verticals and cdf that look at you know full solutions and all the different parts coming together so yeah in that context you know Jenkins would be a big part of it but it might there might be room for kind of integration with other tools as well so that would be my my sort of reasons well I definitely agree with that so if outreach committee in cdf is interested in that we can definitely do that so what we would need is just a place where to put information about these special interest groups or whatever they are called yeah after the rework and yeah for example for hardware in DEM happy to move to such a framework immediately yeah and yeah for other six I also think it may be interesting yeah I think early on with the initial conversations there's potential for finance one and potential for maybe a higher ed one education so just based on some of the interested companies who might have people they'd like to get involved but it's still very early days so yeah I guess that's three finance education and yeah so well the third one was the hardware EDA okay yeah so yeah I think it would be something useful so if you need again a peak to try out to this approach I'm happy to do that okay great okay and yeah there is also a question from rick about having local sponsors so maybe yeah as I meant here about a cdf so maybe you would like to clarify the question and to provide the use case rick in order to bring all people into the community so I thought if I can find some sponsor like a price to give us some books or other supports or like another community like the upstate community do you think that's a good idea or another suggestion about this yeah it may be also related to cdf outreach plans because for example cncf they have their own network of meetups they have created recently yeah so yeah for example cardigan think these other meetups might be a problem about that but regarding local sponsors yeah I think it shouldn't be fine I'm not sure how it would relate to cdf and the unix foundation but de facto we already have local sponsors so many Jenkins every meetups are organized by particular companies and they run that and for example on meetup pages we also list sponsors sometimes I'm not sure whether it's listed here maybe not but yeah for example all these sponsors meetups they provide stickers t-shirts etc so this is listed on my meetups meetup pages as a sponsor and I do not see any obstacle for having that for local communities as well okay the first the first the first the question is we already tried to do some advocacy for us now I think it's more like a local or Jenkins advocacy advocacy and outreach something like a sub-seeker but it's under the Jenkins localization sake just for report states no not a question or you you can give me some advice or other opinions about this if you're interested to coordinate it's reasonable to have a local community for example you can just communicate in Chinese and they should help a lot so if you want to have such sub-seek or whatever you call it I think there is no obstacle at all maybe it doesn't really need a special seek because you can just be a part of Chinese localization seek and sometimes you can just join for example this meeting so we can chat together about some much I think yeah for me yeah for me it's perfectly fine I'm not sure what do you think Tracy um yeah sorry I drifted out but I think that's fine so yeah okay go ahead yeah I just want to say that the objective of advocacy and outreach seek is to embrace communications and the community and embrace contributions so be sure that this seek has no plan to just overtake all kinds of activities and other communities and drive them etc so all my objective is to help where you can yeah yeah those ideas in mind and see if there's any framework within cdf that looks well with but yeah I don't have anything more at this point yeah thank you uh actually I have uh thoughts about the seek uh you say uh the seek idea is is excellent but uh if uh if we have uh if we have some people from China want to join one thing like a platform thing or other thing but they they don't they don't uh speak English while you float float so maybe we need a we need a person to be a bridge uh uh to link the local local something like a local figure to the uh international figure something like that yeah it would be something I would advise because yeah if you have local isolated community well it works but uh there may be disconnects uh there may be lost opportunities so yeah it's better to have some communication between local groups and larger ones how we organize this communication it's a good question but yeah I think them one of approaches is to if somebody is interested to organize this communication let's start from there for example you Rick you join platform seek meetings cloud meet seek meetings so if there are local discussions in Chinese channels you can just bring them up in the agenda and yeah it would be a good stuff yeah I wonder if we need to get better at maybe for each seek meeting um you know writing out a summary of the the key decisions so maybe that could get translated rather than having you know the whole long video or kind of long meeting notes so just kind of being better boiling it down so we can translate the information back and forth uh so having uh summaries for each meeting so you mean for example one or two paragraphs summarizing what was discussed and what was agreed on yeah maybe yeah kind of key key outcomes particularly of sort of saying okay we're going to do this and here's here's the reasoning and maybe not so much kind of the back and forth discussions but just yeah the outcomes and the direction yeah actually it may be helpful especially since we have some coordinated activities for example jump spread or whatever we could be sending commands to seek summaries to the list so if seeks provide such summaries it might be helpful yeah especially yeah for recruitment of people to know this is actually going on or just to yeah come come into the code base when there's an activity they care about so I think it's something to discuss with seek leaders I'm ready to provide such information for uh speech interest groups where participate so yeah if you want to try it out we could just do that so for example for this meeting and for the meetings next week and we could start from there okay so yeah so Tracy if we provide such summary information information how regarding digest etc who would be able one thing I want to start doing or certainly someone in my team maybe doesn't exist yet I'd like to do a monthly monthly or quarterly kind of Jenkins community summary which is you know lots of indicators to growth so the easy things are just showing you know how many blog posts did we have how many uh taking the stats and presenting them but also it would be like have a summary for each thing they what what did the seek do this last quarter you know is it growing is it what are the achievements as such or is it kind of in a bit of trouble maybe people also engage so we kind of regularly get some visibility for everybody into what's what's thriving and what maybe not need some attention so in that forum if I had this presentation or deck that went out every quarter every month then it would have like one page per sick my lights it would be nice so it's pretty similar to jump spread which existed before maybe in some different format yes so that kind of thing so to go out to the jams to just go out to the the mailing list as well and then we can use it for you know every event in as well just to kind of present the state of the community okay yeah it would be great if we continue doing that so yeah what we can do for example after the next week because next week almost every specialist group will have meetings so after that or before that we can just send the message to seek leaders and ask them to prepare these summaries yeah then we will have some initial content so yeah I think on the nights I edited the information to the meeting notes I just realized that I stopped with the information in the meeting notes so yeah I think that's it we are already going a bit over time but yeah thanks a lot to you Tracy and Rick for participating so I will stop the broadcast and yet you can continue the discussion if you want I have a final question about the Chinese localization seeker I do think after the CDF launch that we might transfer the Chinese localization seeker to be under the CDF level yeah that makes sense then so that would include translation let's say the CDF site yeah if you think this yeah it wants to take on that bigger scope then that would be fine so the our things might be good to mark some seeker are taking the level some maybe yeah I think it will take time to do but I think we should know the direction we want to head so I think that would be good yeah I totally agree and yeah for many specialist groups it's better to be on the CDF level yeah I'm not sure about platform seek because now the projects are really Jenkins focused there for example for cloud native seek well it can be moved relatively quickly to the upper level if we need yeah I think cloud native platform does seem to be very Jenkins technology specific so yeah we can adjust but yeah it was the original idea of the seek and we have some work to do so maybe we will stay on the Jenkins level but again if we talk about something specific for example doc topics or Kubernetes it may be happening on the CDF level and yeah it will be also partially or for example windows if we talk about something more plastic it can be also happening on the CDF level okay okay so yeah thanks a lot everybody and thanks a lot to everybody who is watching this video yet if you have any questions just come to our Gitter chat and we will be able to answer these questions synchronously or at the next seek meeting yeah thanks a leg yeah thank you too thank you