 Hello from Tokyo, we are so so so glad to welcome you and it's almost 7 o'clock in Tokyo and I guess it's 6 o'clock in Taiwan. So what did you eat for dinner or lunch today? Yeah, I didn't have dinner yet. I will have dinner after this conversation. For lunch I had some sesame noodles. Nami-san! And so far, what are you doing today? Today I met with visitors from different places. I did meet a visitor from Japan and we learned together how to fold origami together, the cream together. The visitor's name is, I think, I don't know, Takoro Asao-san, the designer of the Tokyo Olympic logo and a very famous artist and architect. So I really learned a lot from the one hour conversation with Takoro Asao-san. Oh, there is thanks. It's good to hear from you. So next we move on to the Q&A session one. We just some questions from the survey, so we have questions for you only. The first question is this. For years I was interested in you and I sent you an email and surprisingly you replied me only for two days. So I want to ask you this question. Why did you accept this invitation? Yeah, so I'm Taiwan's digital minister. Although many people in Japan call me the IT Daijin or the IT minister, to me it's not what digital is. The IT connects machines, but digital connects people to people. So in Mandarin in Taiwan, shuwei means digital but also plural and plural is many people, diverse people and connecting them together. So one of the connections that I make as part of my work in the cabinet is youth engagement. I am in charge of connecting to people who are as young as under 18. Because if in Taiwan you're above 18 or 20, you can vote and there are politicians connecting to you because they want your vote. But if you're under 18, you're not yet part of democracy. So my work as the digital minister especially is to connect to people younger than 18 and younger than 20 because that's another adult age in Taiwan for voting for presidents and mayors. So people younger than 20 is my main constituent and it doesn't matter whether you're from Japan or from Taiwan or anywhere as long as you are a young person, it is I think part of my work to connect with you. Thank you, I was so moved by your words. And the next question is about school life. So I would like to ask you a question. Sorry, I will read the question. It is said that Japan has little diversity and rocks understanding of minorities and it takes courage to be different from others at school and we feel there is some peer pressure in Japan. So even for you, does it take courage to do something different from others? To me, it doesn't take courage. It's about taking all the sides, like listening to people who feel differently from you. In the society in Japan or Taiwan, there are a lot of business as usual, social norms. It's just the way people do things. For example, marriage, joining two families together and having children together and so on. That is considered a cornerstone of stable relationship. But once you understand what people care about the stable relationship, the stability of child's environment, then you can say, but I push for marriage equality to reinforce your values. With marriage equality, more people will be able to form stable family. They will be able to adopt or have children together and civilization will reach more people because there are just different people who want to form different sort of families, but we are all part of this side of family values. So once you understand what people really care about, you don't have to do things exactly the same way as they do. But you can say, oh, I do things my way because I want to support the values you also care about. Thank you. Next question, please tell us about your school life, your experience dropping out of school and your thoughts about your school education. So between I was four and I was 14, between those 10 years, I attended three kindergartens, six primary schools, and one year of middle school, and I dropped out. So for those 10 years, every year is a different kindergarten or school. So I've never done summer homework. Every summer I switch to school. Right, of course, every time it's a different reason. The first one from the first year of primary to second was because I was considered gifted, but from second to third was because I faced bullying in my class from the third to fourth is because my dad went to Germany so I went to Germany with him. Going back to the Taiwan I had to do a heart surgery and so on. So all different reasons. But my dropping out of the school is with the full endorsement blessing of the head of my school, because I convinced the head of my middle school that I can learn just as much even better on the internet, compared to at her school. So she said, okay, I bless you. I would not say that you're violating the law and so on. So I'm really grateful. And it is another example of identifying listening to their values to the other side's values, but then say, I do things differently because I also want to support your values. So I attended many undergrad level classes, graduate level classes in nearby universities. So I didn't really quit education. I didn't quit school either. I just quit the idea of having to get a diploma from a certain school. I hope to answer your question. Thank you so much. And the next, it's about digital skills. So I would like to read a question. Oh, this question and it's very interesting programming. So, how can we master programming by ourselves? Any tips? When I was programming, when I was eight years old, I did it on paper. I didn't have a personal computer. So I just read about programming and I use a pen and paper to draw a keyboard. And then I use pencil to draw what the computers will print. So it doesn't really matter what kind of computer you have, even without computer, you can learn programming. Now, of course, I had a personal computer very shortly after that. And the first games that I wrote was educational games, learning about fractions, learning about elementary school level mathematics in a way that's fun, right, interactive. So nowadays, if you look at the community called Scratch, S-C-R-A-T-C-H, it's sponsored by Lego, built by the MIT Media Lab. And it's very much like the games that I made when I was eight years old. They're very interactive. They're fun games. And the best thing of Scratch is that it's open, so you don't have to start from the beginning. You can start with a game you like to play, and then you change its code so that the hero look like you or change the color or change the background music. So you can begin by looking at fun Scratch games and changing those Scratch games. Once you understand how to program, then you can look at your daily life and see which part of that can be automated, meaning that you do the same thing every day. So maybe a robot will do better than you. So you can try to write a program to automate that part of life so you get more time. And then you can learn more about programming. Hope to answer your question. Thank you. Next question, how do you come up with new ideas for applications? Yeah, I'm part of this community called G0V or Gov0. And Gov0 is an online community and it's open, as I mentioned. Everything that is written by the Gov0, all the programs and so on are free for everybody to see, to change and to adapt to one's own needs. So for example, up until now, on the Gov0's online chat room, there's a COVID-19 channel that has more than 1,400 people on that channel. So anytime people think about something related to COVID, maybe how to prevent the next COVID-like thing, if they have a good idea, then people will work together on that idea. And that channel is where we had the mask rationing map, the SMS-based contact tracing, the distribution of rapid testing, the donation of masks to the entire world. All these are ideas that came from the Gov0 channel. So it was not my idea. I'm just one participant in the channel and I amplify those ideas. But I bring those ideas to our cabinet and say, this is a better idea than our ministers. Let's just use their idea. So I'm more like a bridge from the 1,400 people on the COVID channel in Gov0 to the cabinet. I'm at a bridge between the two. So you get like many kinds of ideas from the community. Yes. So if you join online open communities, you will too have a lot of good ideas because it's not your idea, it's our idea, it's everyone's idea. Thank you. I think it's a very great idea. Thank you. And next, it's about sexuality and gender. And the question is, the following question was received anonymously in the survey. So this is the wrong question, but I would like to read it. For a long time, I've had occasional moments in which I feel like a man, others in which I feel like a woman, others in which I feel like needed a man, nor a woman. And now I don't know what to do. I would be very happy to get some tips and advice. So please answer this question. Well, I'm sure that all of us have moments in which we feel like speaking Japanese and other moments where we feel like speaking English. And now, like sometimes we don't speak either maybe we speak JavaScript or something like that. Right. So I mean, it's normal. For me, when I was 13, 14 years old, I noticed that my puberty is not like the other boys in my class. I mean, my voice did change because I was part of the singing choir that was very quickly noticed. But I didn't really grow a noticeable Adam's apple and I don't have as much development of facial hair and so on. So I wonder what happened. And so later on, I would check my physiology and learn that I was born with a condition of very low testosterone. So my development is not the same because I do not receive in my blood sufficient amount of testosterone to fully go through a male puberty. But fortunately, I was already part of online community. I'm very happy to discover that there are many people who are like me. Actually, not many people in my school who are like this, because maybe it's one in a thousand. But even if it's one in a thousand, the entire world has millions of people like me. So we can discover each other on the Internet very quickly. So I think this is a great opportunity for me to share that I just do whatever I like to do. The computer never asked about my gender when I learned programming. So it doesn't really matter if I behave or feel like a male or a woman. Sometimes I feel like a robot and the computer is fine with that too. It's not biology, right? Biology doesn't determine your destiny and this is important. And of course the fashion, right? Sometimes say like a very high shoe may be for women. But previously in Europe, these are for men or like the, for example, a color pink. Nowadays people think it's feminine. But for a while, like a couple of centuries ago, it was considered masculine. So it's all just fashion. So I think one of the main point I want to make is that if the current fashion isn't your fashion, your identity, then it's not your fault and it's not the society's fault. It's about celebrating the diversity, the plurality of different ways of looking at things. During the pandemic, maybe some of you already know, in 2020 February, there was a young boy about your age calling the toll free number 1A22 in Taiwan, saying you're rationing out masks but all I got was pink ones. All the boys in my class were blue. Can you give me some blue mask? I don't want to wear pink mask to school. But the very next day on the 2 p.m. press conference, all the ministers, all the medical officers wore pink masks. And for a few weeks, all the fashion brands turned pink on the social media. So pink became the most hip color and the boy become the most fashionable boy because only he has the color that the heroes wear. And Minister Chen of Health and Welfare even said that pink panther was his hero when he was a child. So he also has the color of hero's hero, I guess. So basically, that really helped because then it's not about giving the boy a blue mask because they will reinforce the stereotype. It is about showing that we can all wear pink and be happy about it. So I think that is one chance to communicate with the society. So do more things like the young boy, but also do more things like the pink panther loving minister. Thank you for all some months. The next question is this the news listen tree says that Japanese was Japan was ranked 180 in the world for gender equality. What do you think about it? I guess the Taiwan is like a high ranked in the gender equality. But what do you think at the moment? Yes, but when I was a child, not so much. When I was a child, like for my father and my mother, they are currently about 70 years old. And when they were working age like my age, they were told that even though my mom performed very well in her work, she cannot receive a higher salary than her husband. And that's called a glass ceiling, right? And for people above 60 years old, 60 years old in Taiwan is very common. And the people would think that it's normal for women to receive less. And it's harder for women to get promoted for people above 60 years old. Now when they were young, it was not a good situation in Taiwan either. And I think Taiwan got to this place. It's because we made sure that all decision making positions need to have sufficient balance. So for example, our MPs, legislators at large, any gender must not be below one-half or one-third for many committees and judges and panels. And we don't change that for any exceptions. So we cannot have a committee, cannot have a panel, unless each gender occupy at least one-third in that committee in Taiwan. So once we do that, more and more decision makers become balanced on the gender impact and gender issues. And so the Ministry of Labor, the Ministry of Finance, the economy and so on, because they all have then the panel of at least one-third women and at least one-third men, that means that their decisions will not prefer too strongly one gender over the other. And so the end goal is that biology should not determine our destiny. So maybe Japan can try something like that. Thanks. And next question is about politics. As I said before, in Japan, Sorry, I will continue. In Taiwan, young people are in charge of politics and the distance between politics and the people is very close. How can we make politics more accessible in Japan and channel the energy of young people into politics? Yes, I think it's a very important question and it's a question I think all the time. How can we make the young people in other places in the world as active as they are in Taiwan? I think one of the reasons is that politics is not just about voting. I think we are not trying to say that vote more. We're saying express yourself more, unmute yourself, right? Make yourself the host of new discussions. And it doesn't mean that you run for mayor or legislator when you are 17 years old, but it does mean that you need to offer a platform, a wish, and that can unite people together, can mobilize people. So in Taiwan, we have this platform called join.gov.tw. On the join platform, anyone, regardless of their age, can start a new petition. And if they collect more than 5,000 signatures, the ministry needs to offer their response. So for example, I think a year and a half ago, one young person maybe in middle school proposed on this platform that every day the high school students must enter the school on 7.5, half past 7 a.m. But the class doesn't start until 10 past 8. So for those 40 minutes, they have nothing to do. Well, there are something to do, but it's not mandatory. It should not be mandatory. And it makes the sleeping time less for the young people because all of them need to show up half past 7. So they say it's not fair. And they say we need to change so that the first class starts after 9. And I'm willing to stay later, but don't make us wake up early. So that was the petition. And more than 5,000 people joined in the petition. And all the ministries of education and local bureaus of education actually met. And because that was partly during COVID, our meeting was also online. So many students who cannot travel to Taipei also participated just by typing and speaking online. And we all agreed, including the parents and the educators, that if you don't sleep sufficiently, even if you learn a lot in school, don't memorize it because memory from short-term to long-term takes place in sleep. So sleep is very important as part of the education process. So we really need to ensure that people sleep good and sleep well. And so starting, I think this year, the school must not say that the student can, you know, exempt from showing up early or showing up there. There's no exception. Everybody by rule only show up after eight. But the school exceptionally can say I reserve one day a week where people have to show up half past seven because there's important discussions to be made or whatever, but at most one day per week. And so it's real change and regulations, everything changed. So for the young people who participate in the petition, they don't need to wait until they can vote a new mayor or vote a new president. They don't need to run for the city council just by showing up, unmuting themselves and raising their hands. They changed their life, right? Their sleep at least. So I think this is very important to offer such a platform that let people care about things very close to them and eventually people will care about larger things like the climate change and so on. But you must first have this gratification from starting a new movement on your petition about things that are really close to your daily life. Thank you. And next. Next question is about diversity. Do you have any tips for Japan to become a society that inverse diversity? Yeah. So outside of Japan, there are many people like me who grow up watching Japanese anime, manga and so on. So a lot of people who are very friendly to Japanese culture. However, of course in the past couple of years, it's not easy for people outside of Japan to travel to Japan. So people may feel that Japan become a more like a single singular or a monolithic place because the foreigners were just not around. But I think this is just a matter of time until we all open up our borders. During the pandemic, I think a lot of people learned about Japan through video conference like now, which is again an important part of increasing the diversity. At least we're speaking English now, right? So that's also linguistic diversity. So digital realms can let people connect weekly or monthly or every quarter to different cultures in a regular thing. And once the pandemic is over and people can travel again, those new friends that you made over the internet in the past couple of years, we can invite them over. So I really look forward to visit Japan in person. And if more people who like Japan like me all visit Japan as tourists for business or for extended stay, like there are people who work on particular pro-social or investment or things like that issues in exchange student fashion. So like one school versus another and so on. So not just to restore such exchanges to be the same level before the pandemic. We also must include new sources of such exchanges that we only encountered during the pandemic. And I think that will make Japan or really any place a more diverse place because it's new friendship. But now they're gathering physically in the same place again. Thank you. So we have to like include some opportunity to like welcome the people from abroad. Yes. And they already like Japan, right? Many of them already speak Japanese. So just invite them over again. And what about Taiwan? So how do you have you do anything to like become to make Taiwan more diversified? Yes. So even during the pandemic, we issued thousands of gold cards to people who are overseas. They have never been to Taiwan, but they like Taiwan and want to contribute to Taiwan. So we give them three years of residency just because they like Taiwan. And thousands of those gold cards were issued and it includes healthcare, healthcare for their family and so on. And they don't need to work for any particular employer. They just need to identify culturally or identify spiritually with Taiwan. So thousands of people, many of my friends in Silicon Valley joined us in Taiwan physically even during the pandemic. And now after the pandemic, we're now looking to expand that program even more. Thank you. And next question is about yourself. So you are making many successes and you are making very great applications in Taiwan. And what failures have you had in the past and how did you overcome it? Yeah. So I told the story how I learned many good ideas from zero, right? But not all good ideas work on the first try. Many of you in Japan have heard about the mask map. But not many people from Japan, if you just watch mainstream media, know that it really failed very badly the very first day that we roll out the mask rationing map. And the reason why is that the map was supposed to show the pharmacies that run out of masks by making sure that if you give them the health card, they use the health card to deduct their inventory. And if you don't collect your masks immediately, then of course you will not pay. So we thought it's a good idea. But obviously it's not the case. Many pharmacies on the first day, they collect everyone's health card and say, okay, go to work. And then they don't insert a health card to the machine. The pharmacy just put those cards there. And then the IC card wait until the noon during the lunch break so that the pharmacy can still sell their usual prescriptions. And during the lunch break, they start to insert the IC card into the machine, into the computer and make the inventory count. And then they tell the people who gave them the IC card to go back on evening to collect their health card and the mask. And we totally didn't think about that. So for the mask map, because the computer never received the IC card, it shows that pharmacy never sold any mask. And then during lunch break, it sold everything, like suddenly sold everything. So it's not useful. And people was very angry because they see all these pharmacies have masks. But by the time they went to the pharmacy, they saw, oh, it's already running out. The map is not showing true accurate numbers. So it was a failure, a very big failure. And I didn't know how to fix that. So I feel like very lost. So I went to a nearby pharmacy and the pharmacist told me that the pharmacist is also thinking about this problem. And the next day when I visit them again, they figure out a solution. The solution is this. On the morning when they receive 200 masks, they will enter 200 into the system and they, you know, get an inventory. So they figure out they can also type in minus 200. So at any given time, once they run out of the daily queue, once they collected sufficient amount of IC cards, they just tell our computer they have received negative 5000 masks. Their inventory goes into negative so they disappear from the mask. So in a sense, they hacked the system. They found a cybersecurity loophole, but that made them possible to disappear from the mask. I say, oh, it's a really good idea. So I go back to the National Health Administration and I told them to add to the computer interface a button. If you press the button, you disappear from the map. You do not have to fake minus 5000 inventory. So once we roll it out, the mask map become accurate again. So I think the people closest to the pain, the people closest to the field, they know how to innovate. They know how to fix things. And our job is to take all the sides, is to go to the pain points and listen to the real people dealing with those real pain points. And chances are they will have really good idea. So what I want to say is that failure is not terrible, right? If you want to listen to other people, failure is a good reason for other people to teach you something you didn't know. So as I often quote Lena Cohen, there's a crack in everything and that's how the light gets in. So failures like that are the cracks that allows the light to get in. I see, thank you. It's the last question from us. What is your dream and what are you interested in these days? Yeah, so maybe because I met with Takuro Asawa-san today, now all I can think about is visiting Japan because he was telling me that because he was part of the Tokyo Olympic planning team, he and his team members was there at the day of opening ceremony with that floating earth and drones and things like that. And watching that, he told me that he told his colleagues. They were saying Audrey-Tang could have been here, right? It's so close and so on. So they really missed me, I guess, at the opening. So hearing that from him, I also think that I really should visit again Japan, Tokyo, but not necessarily just Tokyo, other cities as well. So my dream for the next few months next year or so is to visit Japan again. I hope that answered the question. Please come to our school. Yeah. Yeah, I'm interested, as I mentioned, I'm interested to talking to people younger than 20 years old. So that that really is what interests me these days. So we're doing this via video conference, but I will also, of course, very much wish if I can visit you in person. Thank you so much. So we move on to the Q&A session two. This time, anyone can ask Audrey. Please raise your hand if you want to ask a question to me, Audrey. And if you can speak English, well, it's okay, we will help you. It's a very precious opportunity and you shouldn't miss this chance. I think there's someone raising their hand. Yes. Okay. I'm so glad to hear your lectures and I really felt that that Taiwan's government is really good for younger people to show their opinions and thought. But I think for Japanese government, now it's a bit difficult. It's really difficult to show younger people's thought or ideas or opinions because the government is now for older people's work for people who works in their society. So like you said that in Taiwan, there is some rules like the one third one. Yes. Yes. One third, any gender must be above one third in any committee. Yes. And also the petition. Yes, 5,000 petition. Yes. Yes. I thought that it is really amazing rules to show all people's opinions and thought. But for Japanese government, I think we can do the same thing right now. So how we can change the government or the society that we have now? Yeah, it's a great question. Usually it's easier if it's just one school or one university, one district, one town, one municipality. Usually in a smaller region like just a district, the head of the district is very approachable. We can just knock on their door or something. So like in Estonia, because in Estonia, there's just a couple million people, right? So it's like everybody is a relative to everyone. So they're very direct, very participative because it's smaller. So my encouragement to you will be not directly going for the national level in Japan, but finding in your region, in your metropolis or in your district, or even just your apartment complex, someone who are willing to try out such ideas of petitions, of gender-balanced communities, of participatory budgeting. And you will find actually some people, some associations or co-ops are already doing that and then join them and effect real change even just for a couple hundred people or a couple thousand people and then gradually grow from there. Because in Taiwan, it also took us 30 years from the community building movement to now. So you must start somewhere, somewhere small. Thanks. Next question. Thanks for your wonderful picture. I am Reiki Takiguchi, I'm 18 years old. It's okay? Yes. I have a question about the system that you've created. I mean, it's a golden card. I heard that you implemented this system shortly after you came up with these ideas, right? Yes. In order to tackle with a COVID problem. Yes. Actually, I think that was possible just in Taiwan because Taiwan has this kind of narrower society or narrower community or need system of society compared with other countries like Japan or the states we have more population compared with Taiwan, right? So I would like to ask you, is it really possible to adopt this system to any other countries in the world? Yeah, but the Tokyo Metropolitan Area adopted the COVID-19 dashboard from Kofu, Japan in I believe just also three days or something. So obviously it could happen in Japan because I participated in the translation, right? I changed one word and I think on Twitter there was this exchange between me and the governor. So I think this really happened in Japan. Now, while it is true of course that the population of the entire Japan is larger, the population in Tokyo is more similar to that in Taiwan. So I think it's always possible to find a more closely need people narrower, as you said, that had some prior experiences introducing this kind of sign. Now in Japan, I think the digital agency is now pushing this kind of co-creation, not just in Tokyo, but also in other areas. And there's a code for city, code for city in pretty much all the major Japanese cities. So look for those people and I think they are working generally toward the same direction as us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for wonderful lecture and I have some questions for you. It is called, and there are some stereotype that's avoiding problems and conflicts in Japan. And I think it has a bad effect to gender equality and so on. And it is because some people try not to see minority. And I don't think it is good. And I, please ask, please tell me some ideas. How can we overcome this situation? Okay. You, sorry, I missed the first part. You say there's less traveling because of COVID. Is that what you said or I heard what you said last, right? You said that it creates a bad effect for the diversity for the minorities. But what was the situation that caused that? I didn't get that. Can you say that again? I see. And please ask me some ideas to overcome this situation of Japan. Okay. But the situation was like the minorities didn't get sufficient time to voice their concerns or to talk with others. Is that the situation you're describing? And I think it's a stereotype of avoid travels and have a bad effect. The stereotype of avoiding travels? Troubles and conflicts. I see. I see. Right. So what you're saying is that people do not want to be troublemakers. Is that what you said? Yes. Okay. Right. So yeah, because I was like, if you innovate and make good solution to solve troubles, that sounds really good to me. But that's not what you mean. You mean that people do not want to waste time by causing trouble for others. Right. That's the culture. Yeah. In Taiwan, we have that culture too. I think that the point I'm making is that it's not about causing trouble for others. It's not about making trouble. It is rather about finding better ways to realize a common value. Right. So I mentioned in the Q&A, if the older generation don't like marriage equality for the minorities, right, lesbians and gays and bisexuals, then what we are saying is not, we're here to cause you trouble to redefine marriage now. What we are saying is essentially, you like family. We like family too. You like more children. We like more children too. We like a stable social relationship. We like that too. And then for some of us, the way to get to those family values must go through a civil union and later on marriage equality, because otherwise we cannot form a stable relationship and raise children. Right. So by making the argument not countering, not attacking the other side, the existing majority, saying, oh, your majority value is great. Let me join your value with my way. Then it's not causing trouble for the majority. It is actually joining the majority. And this is what I mean by taking all the sides. I hope that answered your question. Thank you. What do you value the most when you work in public? When I work in public, what do I value the most? Yes. Ah, okay. Good question. I think the thing I value the most is how can I open more possibility for the next generation and the generation afterward for seven generations afterward? If I solve a problem today by causing the problem for the next generation, then I'm basically taking away possible futures. But if I solve the problem just a little bit, but leave the world a more open place so the younger people have more room to innovate, more possibilities, more democratic, more resilient, more plural, then I don't have to solve everything because the younger generation will be more capable than I am with better tools, with better understanding, with better technology than me. So instead of fixing everything in this generation, what's important is that we don't pollute the next generation's environment. We don't close off next generation's possibilities. And then the next generation will figure things out and if they don't, well, their next generation will. So sustainability and intergenerational solidarity, like liking the possibility of future more than the current generation. That's what I value most. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time today. I'm Nenena Kazawa. I have a question. What I would like to ask you is how to motivate yourself when you are reluctant to do something, what you have to do? I go to sleep. Yeah, and then I wake up with motivation. It always works. So if I'm frustrated or if I don't have motivation, it's usually because I'm tired. And if I force myself to work, I would not sleep well that day. If I don't sleep well, I would not remember the lessons I need to learn today. So instead of fighting, struggling, I just immediately go to sleep. And sometimes if it's early in the day, like in the afternoons, it's just a nap. I wake up after half an hour, after an hour, it was good ideas. But if it's later in the day, like 9pm, 10pm, I go to sleep. And then I wake up early, right, like 5 or 6, with very good ideas. So no matter what time is it in a day, if I feel frustrated, I just go to sleep. Okay, thank you. Next. Next, please call 4B29. Please turn on the camera if you can. Thank you for your lecture. I'm Seramina Kamura. So I have a question. What should we do while we are students? Well, if you're a student, figure out how to learn. It's not just about receiving an education, but rather about finding something that you're really curious about. And once you're really curious about something, you can then learn not just from the textbook or from your teacher, but from everyone who are interested and curious about this. That's the community we keep talking about. And once you're in the community, you can learn to co-create toward the common good so that as a byproduct of your learning, you also make it easier for everybody else after you to learn the same thing because they can follow your footsteps, right? So I think this autonomy, interaction, and the common good is really the same thing, but it starts with curiosity, with figuring out what is this that you want to learn. Many people, if they know, whatever they learn will make a real change in the world. Like if they learn how to use e-petition, they can change the sleeping schedule for all middle schoolers by starting a petition. That's a very strong motivation. So it doesn't need to be a personal curiosity. It could also be a social one. Like I'm curious if I can change the sleeping patterns of everyone by making sure the schools do not mandate us to show up at 7. That's also a kind of curiosity. Thank you. Thank you. Unfortunately, we don't have so much time. So it's the last question. Graphic name, thank you for your precious time. So I want to question, I have a question for you. So what do you think about our future working style? So because of the virus in Japan, working online became so common more than past. But nowadays, some people say they're more better business or better work should be done and there's a face to face communication. So I want to hear your opinion or vision of our future working style. Yes. So when I become a minister in 2016, I say I only go to the cabinet meeting on Monday and Thursday. And the other days, I'm all over the world and traveling through time zones, right? Waking up in America and then during the day to Japan and gradually in the evening to Africa and Europe because that's how the time zone goes, right? So if I am trapped into the physical place, then only my coworkers can see my face. But if I take a few days focusing on the remote, then the entire world are face to face to me through video conference. On the other hand, if I spend every day of my week just doing teleconference, then my colleagues, the other ministers will not even know me. And it will be impossible for me to be a bridge between the online community to the cabinet. So at least two days a week or three days a week, depending on your familiarity, I think is important. So this is sometimes called a hybrid work style where you meet with your close colleagues to figure out what to do. But actually doing that, you spend time on teleworking on smaller groups, on co-working spaces and things like that. I think there are many research that shows this is better than everybody just at online or everybody trapped in face to face. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Audrey. And I would like Mr. Hiromi Katakura to bring a very short thank you message. So Mr. Katakura, can you turn on your mic and camera and bring a short thank you message to Audrey, please? Yeah. Can you hear my voice? Yes. So thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to speak today. I'm Hiromi Katakura, a fourth grade of Koishiko secondary school and I'll present an ending speech. Audrey, you talked about programming in your presentation. I felt close to you because I also do some programming with Scratch. And also I think your ideas about the nature of gender may have helped ease the minds of those who are wondering. I think Audrey's idea was fresh to us and gave us many options. We also learned the importance of viewing failure in a positive direction. There are a lot of things we should learn from the good status quo in Taiwan. If there is another opportunity like this, I would like to listen to your lecture again. Thank you very, very much for your time today. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you all for very, very good questions. It's obvious that you thought a lot before asking those questions and I really value today's exchange. Thank you. Take a picture with you. So, Audrey, how do you say goodbye in Taiwan? 再見. Or just bye-bye. Bye-bye. Or bye-bye. Bye-bye is actually what we do. Bye-bye. Yeah, just bye-bye. 皆さんできるだけ カメラをオンにして 全員で今教わった挨拶 あるいは皆さんのする挨拶を なんであれ? すごい. 再見. 再見. 再見. Look at your mother, she's shooting a video. Oh, it was wonderful. Thank you. Bye-bye.